SMT IV Apocalypse Shocked Me For SO Many Reasons...
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- Опубликовано: 16 мар 2023
- This gaaaaaame was a game... Honestly if you want my full thoughts on the game, I had a big long rant in the finale stream on my VOD channel. But yeah, TLDW: you can tell this game was made by almost completely different people and as a result created some pros for combat and QoL things, but a lot of cons in terms of story and overall experience for me. I think we can ALL agree the final dungeon is complete ass. -_-
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Игры
"I'm gonna do every chaos gremlin option because there is no real choice"
Oh god, I can see exactly how this ends already.
SMT4A exist because while making a "Royal version" of SMT4, the project got too big.
Also part of 4's dev team wanted to make a game where "Girl say nice things to you" while other wanted to make more like typical SMT. "Team A" , the team of most older devs , got to try their vision on 4 then "Team B" , the "new blood", got their time in the sun with 4A. Thats why the game are so different tone wise.
So yeah
Its from a interview btw
Well said Alcor
Wow holy shit, the boomers were right for once.
@@chaolihai-innitNah not really.
@@digimonlover1632Yes really. As much as I like Apocalypse, the tone and story are completely fucked up. And the dialogue is some of the worst I've ever seen.
@@chaolihai-innitThe existence of smt3/smt5 characters and story are the complete antithesis to the "boomers were right" idea though. Poor execution doesn't equal poor concept.
SMT IV APOC is a game where you can feel the dev team getting into screaming matches over what direction the game should go in. The gameplay is aces but the story and it's tone is all over the place, which is a shame because it has some cool moments and ideas.
Also whoever designed the final dungeon should be tried by the U.N.
I feel like they were trying waaaaay to hard to make a more Persona-like story work in the framework of smt but this just dosen't work.
SMT is at is best when you're forced to make hard decisions based on your actions and beliefs while trying to survive insurmountable odds, and this game is like... The opposite of it
Its actually something that one part of SMT4 teams wanted to make.
TeamA , older devs wanted to make classic SMT.
While team b , wanted to make a game where "girl nice things to you". Then when working a enchanced version for 4 , got too big and became 4A.
@@alsaiduq4363 I was about to mention the same thing. I remember Larrue(I think it was him) shared that bit of info and it REALLY makes sense.
@@charnalk5572 The one major flaw of Eirikr. He provides a lot of good information, but if there's anything he dislikes, he will make every moment of his game review let everyone know he dislikes it.
@@funninoriginal6054im running a gun build on this game rn
Bottom line is
Partner attacks are carrying fights where they're immune to gun
I got 3 healers, all with rakunda, dekunda and rakakaja rn
One has makarakarn and im tryna get tetrarakarn
I will forgive each and ervery of this game's shortcomings just because the Stephen DLC fight has to be the best SMT fanservice we have gotten since all time. I hope Crystaahl gives it a chance someday although she would not recognize 1 and 2 chad protags.
Because she doesn't know the Giga chads that are "The Hero" & Aleph, yea I don't think she'll really enjoy the DLC. 😅
She doesn't have to play SMTs 1 & 2, just read it up.. but still that would take A LOT of digging & reading.
The scariest part of the franchise when the wheelchair man stands up
@@rdii861 wym, SMT 1 & 2 are up there with 4 in storytelling
I feel like one of the main problems with the characters is most of the characters don't act like they've lived their whole lives fending off demons. Except Navarre who's probably the least likely to become demon chow
Yeah there's a significant tonal gap between a lot of the NPCs in this game and the NPCs in IV.
Uhhh, they're kids? Nozomi, Toki and Gaston are the only ones that actually fought demons and they act like it?
That feeling when you realize Krishnas silky smooth voice is Kaneshiro's from P5...
Also Okuyasu and Vanilla Ice. Granted he with Kaneshiro... Yeah you hear both his Krishna and Okuyasu at different points
I personally really liked Apocalypse, but that final dungeon ruined any kind of replayability the game may have had
The final boss isn’t really replayable with how long it is on any difficulty above normal. It is the final boss fight in all of Megaten imo, I love the way it ties in the whole theme of Megaten in one battle.
I'd personally say the last two, but yeah, teleporting mazes are not fun, especially when there's so many
@@sbfh014 many, large areas to tread, not easily identifiable which portals lead to where and which one is 'correct', sounds about the classic time sink braindead JRPG slot ins. sadge that this filter is literally in the endgame
Just learn to speedrun the last dungeon, it's not that long if you know where to go.
What did you think of Strange Journey?
Hallelujah really is the we have Giorno at home of SMT
Which is funnier when you realize who Nanashi shares an English voice with... And pre anime ASB Giorno is Yu in Japanese
I love how the one connecting thread between your IV and IV:A playthroughs is basically Isabeau calling you out at the 11th hour.
35:52
And now crystal knows; The pain of smt is more than just simple battles. It is also the dread of getting your macca stolen due to demons using skills or casting aliments that make you give them macca/items to them.
Cool, she's playing more SMT games.
LET'S GO FOR DIGITAL DEVIL SAGA NEXT!
yeessssssssssssssss
DIGITAL DEVIL SAGA IS PEAK MEGATEN
@@sbfh014 either of these would be great
@@sbfh014 considering how terrifying those maps are in strange journey i'm almost sorry for her.
She said on stream she’s doing mainline only first.
I think the comparisons of SMT4A and Persona just comes from the amount of dialogue. The quality of character development may be similar to SMT3 and 5 but those games devote far less time to it than SMT4A does. If someone isn't looking for character development in their game (or just aren't looking for it at the moment) 3 and 5 can work while 4A is still bloated.
It also comes from the fact that their character arcs are all about accepting themselves and becoming the biggest bestest friend group. Like the good ol' meme goes, SMT was always about killing your friends while Persona is you being their unpaid psychologist.
Add to that the fact that none of them talk as if they grew up and live in a world where you can be demon food at any moment and the Persona comparison is more than appropriate.
I think you're really doing Nocturne a disservice on character development. Most of it is inferred because it's pretty obvious that most humans thrown into an apocalyptic wasteland filled with demons would be shaped drastically by that environment. I'm not sure why people need to see more than what was shown in Nocturne to think this way.
@@AnguishXAI definitely don't need to be shown more character development than what was shown in Nocturne. The point of my comment is that SMT4A *does* spend more time ostensibly showing character development, and the game doesn't wind up any better in that regard than Nocturne, so it's just a waste of time. Nocturne's character development, while basic (one development per character pretty much), is very time efficient.
Honestly when i heard the "personafied" comment about asahi's character I kinda understood what they meant. There's a drastic tonal difference between persona and smt in most games and Asahi's regular perky teenage girl character (Which is not a bad thing on its own!!) clashes with the setting.
If Shesha had eaten Nanashi, you would be able to be revived because your soul would be gone. Dagda even says so in the Cosmis Egg, which gives Asahi's sacrifice legitimacy. Her sacrifice mattered
"Is Dagda this game's Burroughs?" First, how dare you? Second, HOW DARE YOU? Burroughs is probably the best character out of a main SMT game, while Dagda is... Dagda
Imo Dagda is a big hypocritical bitch. Literally just SMT3's Isamu all over again but this time with mommy issues.
at leats you get to mruder dagda c:
Burroughs simp
as much as i like Burroughs i can't deny that Dagda's just funny given how his edginess makes me laugh whenever it comes up.
This is the OBJECTIVELY best design satan ever had
I will die as many times as i need on this hill
Naww the monstrous alien looking design goes hard
nah, i disagree, harlot is a better representation of the revelations beast and kaneko satan just hits different
what, not a fan of OG Satan's glorious tits?
@@LckD008 nah why did they slap six titties on it tho. The new one is so more badass and intimidating
56:08 It's so weird to me that many people don't realize Shesha steals your soul when he eats you. The game makes it clear more than once.
"I devoured their faith - their souls."
yeh, so many forget or didnt realize that "bringing you back" is soul based, not fully intangible
I think when people refer this game's writing as persona-ish, is not just the comedic banter or more the character focus writing but how more of a clear-cut cheesy good guys the characters are. This game story really wants you to lean on the peace ending with the Dagda being a dick, everyone reminding you how much of a good friends, and the story's illusion of choice (which granted some smt games have in some instances but your choices do compile into what ending you get in the final strech).
And I think with everyone being the good guys of the game, the dispute of beliefs (law, chaos and neutral) is left out of the picture, the thing that at least as I see it is one of the appeals of the series.
And even if we dismiss that part, the story is not that well balance in giving its character their proper screen time or even progresion (gaston and navare rob the show alone). Hallelujah never really grows out of his moderator role of the team (even though that role was supposed to be for Nozomi, being she is the adult but well she is a mess), Toki is just weird (but really op on combat, she has like double turn and is perfect for hordes) and Isahi is just boring after the middle of the game. (Hell, even the edgy bitches from smt 3 have a little more substance in their character than most of the bozos in smt4A).
But hey, it was still fun to watch your reaction to the hotmess that divided that whole fandom
This is it. The theme of friendship has never been the raison d'etre of mainline SMT. It has always been used as a narrative vehicle and those narratives have always accepted it as a fleeting thing on principle. Persona is the exact opposite. There the friendship IS the point of the game. The 2 different approaches work well because of their settings, but when you mix them like in Apocalypse it just feels annoying. Imagine playing a Persona game where the MC or party members were unabashed edge lords or sociopaths for 99% of the game and you'd get the same dissonance.
Story wise, SMT4A is what people who dont play/dont like persona think that persona is
50:28 - That's definitely his Smirk face from SMT IV
It has been a year and i am still confused to what a fairy queen does.
I ended up loving Apocalypse's gameplay, but yeah, vanilla IV had such a better story. A game with Apocalypse's gameplay and IV's story would be one of my favorite games of all time.
A SMT4 Remake?
Eh, remake implies more than gameplay. Maybe redux would fit the bill better. These games need to be brought out of the gay baby jail that is the 3ds though.
The Divine Powers had a much better Japanese name, it was the Polytheistic Alliance.
Also yes Hallelujah is best boi
"The Divine Powers" legit sounds like a religious knock off of Power Rangers idk why
but yeah Polytheistic Alliance sounds way more cooler imo
I feel like Apocalypse's problem is more it's pacing and tonal whiplash. I mean I definitely get the Persona comparisons considering the obvious good route is called the "Bonds" route of all things, and the 4A cast at their worst at least aren't hollow representations of ideologies. Though I think that's also the main problem for some people. Bad characters in 3 usually just annoy for a few minutes and then leave you alone. 4A forces to be around that writing at every moment possible. The Persona games actually know how to space out it's serious and comedic moments, how to "Take It's Time" in establishing who a character really is before dumping them into your party
Sorry long rant, I just totally agree that people saying "lol it's Persona writing" is so dumb and counterproductive
I forgot they actually made Krishna an antagonist in this game and its weird to me because he is one of the dieties i worship and go to temples of. I was scared shitless to continue playing this game after learning about it
the hurdles of forgetting hinduismis a real ass religion.
granted at least you can take solace in the idea of christians being equally uncomfortable with fighting literal christian god as the final boss.
@@sarafontanini7051 over the years i have overcome that fear mainly because my views of the world has changed and how i perceived god and religion and now i find it fascinating how SMT incorporate these deities and their lore and mannerisms into the game's story
im jewish and seeing the star of david as a demon summoning hex is disturbing at the very least for me lol, and the final boss is obv the abrahamic creator god who shall not be named so that just adds to it
I'm not really much of a religious guy, so it doesn't bother me too much...
But I suppose we can all unite under the banner and admit that SMT has a little bit for everyone, eh?
@@implord4197 maybe the real megami tensei was the heresy we committed along the way
I let my sister play this game for a couple of minutes. She named herself "Toast", not knowing how accurate that would be. She then turned down the offer in the afterlife and laughed to hard when the game ended right there.
Anyway, IV:A isn't my favorite SMT game but Gaston is the best SMT character and I'm 100% ready to throw down with anyone who dissagrees. (Unless you wanna shit talk his assist skill. His turn stealing is bs.)
Gaston might not be the best partner, but he is the funniest. So naturally I used him whenever possible.
Stephen: oh hey a messiah lemme just….
- puts wheelchair into Cathedral of shadows mode -
Let me help you
"15 year old just lead a whole mob of gangster"
Ah yep, just like Giorno Giovanna did-
OHH... so that's why his name is Hallelujah...
wait, hallelujah's a jojo reference? aside from the mob leading thing, i don't follow why that's his name
@@CallieBlader Giorno son of DIO is a Jesus allegory. DIO means God and Diavolo is Devil.
@@infernaldisdain8051 doesn't explain hallelujah which is an exclamation of something great happening
@@CallieBlader Hallelujah literally means “Praise the Lord” it’s not a generic exclamation.
CrystAAHHL: If they end up making me like Nevarre, imma be mad!
Didn't she say something similar about Akechi in P5R?
1:03:45 that moment goes so hard damn
51:00 "Nobody steals Press Turns like Gaston!"
Adrammelech: My name is Ah-drah-meh-lehk
Crystaahhl: ok A-drama-leek
You Could have had hallelujah as your partner to prevent status ailments as well as prevent krisha from blowing away your demons with wind. But a demon like alice who is immune to status ailments works too.
Dynamite teddy bears for everyone
1:14:20 THE PERFECTLY CUT SMIRK I CAN'T-
For those who don't know I recommend searching for YHVH vine boom.
Alright, Crystal. Now you have got to play Devil Survivor Overclocked
this so much. DESU 1 and 2 are incredible games
can't wait til she finally plays peak megaten lol
I personally disagree that this game is not influenced by "persona writing". There is very much more lean in unbreakable friendship that persona games forces upon. But at the very least in this game, conflicts between interest do happen, albeit not much. Weirdly enough P5 Royal, feels more leaning to SMT with the conflict of ideologies and that is why that game is so much better than base Persona 5.
Homeslice went bananacakes
By choosing isabeau as a goddess you have unknowingly comitted NTR by stealing flynn's love interest
I mean she picked her knowing that in this specific playthrough she hated her, there's definitely spite involved
Apocalypse is so DOPE! I love how dark and brutal unforgivable and unjust the world of SMT IV and specially Apocalypse is.
Apocalypse is just a mess tonally.
My favorite mainline
Strangely enough i really enjoyed the last dungeon. But i also like when my party members in Persona do their own thing :)
this was one of my first smt games and I enjoyed it so much and it holds a special place in my heart. also got to the 2nd to last boss then lost all my game data and never got around to playing back up to that point but i've been on my 3ds a lot lately so I'm gonna pick it back up.
This just shows the goodest boy’s never gonna be Koromaru, Amaterasu, or any other dog
It’s actually Orcus
YOU DID SO WELL NANASHI
I really liked Apocalypse, I know the story could be better, but I liked the main cast a lot, in contrast with SMT4 where I didn't care much about the story. They can't be compared to me because each one has its own strength. I think SMT4 is better in exploration, tone and sidequests. While SMT4A is better in combat and characters. But that's just my opinion
It's cool you like this game. Might I recommend Devil Survivor Overclocked. You'll love it, I can guarantee ^^
3:20 I'm not doing fusion, Asahi. I AM the fusion.
I guess due to the last game giving Flynn too much free will that the final alignment choice will get rejected if you have too much points in either law/chaos. While this game spends too much time rejecting your already limited freedom and only mattering at the moment of truth, by that time you're sick of everyone's shit you'll just settle with the lesser of two evils (Dagda).
...in a situation where your options are to commit genocide, murder everybody in existence, destroy the Universe, enslave people and become God and just siding with your friends to protect the world, how is the first one the lesser of two evils?
Personal tolerance and reward.
@@jasonterre1056 If you’re just doing it because you tolerate Dagda more and like what he offers more, that’s not really the lesser of two evils. That’s just prioritizing self-aggrandization over ethics and empathy.
I'm aware. I just prefer one over the other, just like everyone else.
I'm honestly still a fan of this one even if the plot and characterization is kind of messy. I still think I prefer this game's story to V's, since with that game it kind of feels like they never pick a plot thread to commit to so each section of the game feels like the basic idea of a story that they never fully flesh out. Here it feels like we have too many ideas running up against one another but at least they feel more fleshed out instead of something someone gave up on after a single chapter.
homeslice went bananacakes
If this was Fire Emblem, that would confirm Nikkari as one of your parents.
Navarre's redemption arc. SMTIVA made me like Navarre.
9:58 this is howI felt first time fighting the King Frost boss in P5 Strikers
As someone who just finished watching your SMT4 video YESTERDAY and thought to myself "Man I wonder if she's played Apocalypse" this was great to open RUclips to.
she has a twitch and an archive channel you know
I love how like... every one of my opinions she ends up having.
It's so cathartic
I can't believe that no one told her that she could fuse Krishna.
This game does kind of explain the whole egg thing better than SMT III
hell I'd say this game has better villains. its pretty interesting what they tried to do with them in SMT3 but they were on the whole pretty basic and undercooked, especially the dude who kickstarted everything.
Meanwhle we have Dagda who'd you either like because he saved you or hate because he removes your chocies from you and is a violent dickhead, krishna who cares so little about humanity despite fighting for a better world and finally the OG himself, newly updated for a modern generation.
@@sarafontanini7051 It does kind of feel like a do-over attempt by them of 3.
I overall liked 4A, but some of the later dungeons did get annoying. Especially WEEWOO's dimension.
I think I would've enjoyed it more if there was a Krishna path, even if it was NG+ exclusive. The idea of throwing a new faction in the middle of the classic Law/Neutral/Chaos was really interesting and something I was disappointed to not see come back in 5. Also neither Krishna nor Dagda came back in 5. Also as Crystal points out multiple time during this video, that Dagda will force you to do some actions despite the illusion of choice is kind of annoying. In the original 4 it's usually philosophical questions that are thrown your way that would affect your alignment accordingly.
Side note, has anyone told Crystal that the Krishna fusion could be unlocked? I don't know if she'll be going back to this one, but it's worth pointing out that there's a way to unlock him.
Anyway, thanks for the video!
Dagda /was/ apparently going to be in SMTV but was removed at the last minute, he had a model and all in the code
@@Chaoszidenrules well now that just makes me sad...
@@Chaoszidenrules Guess who's back? lmao
If you want something closer to smt iv in tone and story quality play Strange Journey
The adorable levels when Crystaahhl notices that she matches drip with nanashi lol
#CrystAAHHL Dagda is the Celtic god of Great power, prestige and good. King of the Tuatha Dé Denann and husband of Mórrigán and Boann!
Game: "Please avoid names are are offensive."
CrystAAHHL: "Bitchen." 😎👍
What Medusa said was so bad even SMT censored her
*sees video in recommended*
“I’ve been waiting for this!”
[X] Attack
[O] Relent
Haven’t played SMT 4 yet but I’ll get there. I’m playing Devil Survivor right now. I think you’d really like it. It’s FE + SMT.
Hope you give it a try someday.
Really pissed me off how we couldn't side with Krishna in this game I would've really love to see what a world in his image would look like
New video up ?! Why do i finish work in 2 hours 😭 now i gotta wait that long before i Can watch it
13:10 Krishna got some drip. The thing that missing that he isn't blue.
She not realizing that Gaston takes her turn is gold
The worst decision in this game is unable to side with krishna :(
17:40 - hooohh I just realized - that's Kokichi's voice :O
This is spooky... or RUclips really does have me trained, or maybe the impending closure of the eShop? I was thinking about this video for the last two days hoping it would come soon. That's the one SMT I've never played and was thinking about buying it, but now that I'm old, the 3DS leads to some intense physical pain if I play for too long. This is perfect.
Compared to SMTIV, this Apocalypse's gameplay is way better, but the story and characters ruins the whole experience.
og SMTIV gameplay is broken af, but the story and decision making is just incredibly tough but enjoyable
Shiva defeating Vishnu-Flynn is such an irony.
I think when it comes to the story, presentation and character driven narrative and actual choice that factors in how your experience pans out, SMT IV does it better than III, Apocalypse and especially V
It sucks you in, and doesn't shove a bunch of characters into your face. You're given just a handful to work with, who experience the game just as you do, and don't really come off as anime cliches like the ones in Apocalypse tend to.
Gameplay-wise, Apocalypse is an improvement, but the only characters worth a damn in it are Navarre, Hallelujah and Isabeau. Everyone else are just god awful and I'll never forgive how badly they butchered Nozomi.
Oh, but we did at least get the new Odin, and Satan design, and Krishna, who I'm baffled wasn't allowed to be in SMT V. lol
i disagree with some of the changes for IVA, the split of taru making a makakaja skill now, the smirk benefits, the level up apps giving you heals when it should've already done so, the story progression locking of certain apps (mostly skill expansion)
one of the few good changes was hama and mudo being actual useful skills that do damage
IV:A has a good battle system, but in terms of getting to make interesting decisions I think base IV and Strange Journey are better with the same/similar mechanics. In fact, I kinda think Strange Journey's route representatives are superior to IV's as well in their development.
@@CallieBlader Smirk is more balanced in IVA than it was in IV, full honesty, and actually worked alongside Tarukaja (it didn't in IV)
I did think crystal would like smt4a more honestly but I'm also not surprised
I get where the "persona writing" arguments come from. I dont see it as literal as it is the tonal whiplash of what was established in 4 (say what you will about 3 and even 5, there was mostly a consistency), but yeah it also comes off as a bit of a strawman or people describing a feeling they have no other way to articulate I guess.. That being said despite its heavy handedness and huge amount of narrative flaws, I still walked away from 4A on good terms with the expanded lore and some of the character stuff I genuinely was engaged with.
I love Apocalypse, it was my first SMT game and still the only one I've completed.
all you need is shiva is a phrase I have been using in all megaten honestly
I quite liked SMT 4A, as the first SMT game I played to completion. yeah I didn't play SMT 4, don't judge me >.>
I feel that even if the majority of the cast aren't that strong, I thin its a great continuation to the neautral ending of SMT4, especially if you wanted to see the samurais get over their shit and ruinite, which apart from killing that asshole dagda is a seeling point of this game's neautral ending, getting everyone together and seeing flynn and co/ fight togetehr alongside you to battle one of the more popular villains in SMT, YHVH.
Also you get to fight Stephen in one ending which is fuckign WILD.
If you do play the older SMT games I hope you enjoy them, even though in my opinion the main SMT games aren't exactly the best in terms of characters.
oh my god i thought she was saying "a drama leak" i was so confused until i realized she was saying adramelech
Homeslice went bananacakes, my guy.
Oddly enough this was my first JRPG LMAO a very weird introduction to that world, but I was hooked afterwards.
In hindsight the game isn’t as great as the ones I play now, but it was such an eye-opener for me to the genre when I first played it and I loved it.
Digital devil saga squad
How appropriate that you upload Dagda's game on St. Patrick's Day! Was it on purpose?
I really lije both games but I 100% agree that base 4 is better. Outside of the cobat changes, which are amazing by the way, 4 just did most things better.
its killing me that i cannot remember which eurobeat track is being sampled for the eyebrow joke
Six months late, but that was Deja Vu
The writers knew what they were doing when they named him hallelujah
Dagda sounds like he went to the Angel school of Irish accents
halelujah good rest bad
Crystaaahhhhlll having the normal human reaction to Toki.
Now it's time to play Devil Survivor Overclocked and seeing how much better the endings in that game were compared to vanilla IV 😭
I would like to see her reaction to that
❤
I can't wait for Crystahhhl to play Devil Survivor games
gosh smt 4 apocalypse really has that vibe i dont much like.
I personally get what the "persona writing" guy meant. The asahi scene where gaston gets punched, and other parts along those lines are a scenes where the problem is the emotional feelings and how the get easily resolved with the help of friends. It is a positive message , and a great one, but man, smt 4 was more about the real shit, ideology and stuff like that.
SMT nocturne is my fav written game cause these really flawed people get turned into totally different people through their experiences in this hell in a way that is believable.
Shijima was the man with the plan, so he didnt change at all.
Isamu only thought of himself, and when he constantly felt betrayed because of not being saved, unaware of the fact people were doing their own shit, wanted true independence and to not need anyone.
Chiaki got her slight ego totally skyrocketed and started going all elite cause she thought she was the best , having only survived by chance, not by her own merit.
And the teacher, who saw the flaw in her plan and wants to turn things back.
It's a shame you didn't really like nocturne, i think its impressive how it tells so much with so little story beats, specially compared to most jrpgs. I hope we get another game like it someday, just as long as it isnt smt 5 though. That story is just straight up bad , cant defend it.
You should play the Devil Survivor games next.
Easily my favorite SRPG games outside of Fire Emblem
Heh, your Chaos points must have been astronomical!
I just hope she tries strange journey next
SMT Strange Journey next!
Homeslice went Bananacakes on God
digital devil saga next 🙏