Hike a Bike with Henrywildeberry EP. 1 Why Downtube Shifters?
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- A commonly asked question I receive on youtube is, "why downtube shifters? Aren't those outdated?" In this video I will try to answer this question and while we're talking about vintage bikes, hiking up hills, and riding down trails on bikes not best suited for them, I'll take you with me to the Marin Bicycle Museum located in Fairfax, California. There we get a chance to talk with bicycle historian Will Clausen and learn a little about the history of shifters and derailleurs.
A link to the Museum and MTB Hall of Fame:
mmbhof.org
Music: Good Times Roll (Live) by The Cars
Photo Credits: The best I could figure out is the Repack photos are by Wende Cragg who shot these on 35mm. The Pine Mountain 1980 Appetite Seminar photo was taken by Dave Epperson and published in Bicycling magazine. Photo of Tom Ritchey brazing bottom bracket to seat tube assembly, Woodside, California c. 1982, but I'm not sure who to credit the photo? Feel free to let me know in the comments. Thank you!
Books:
1. The Dancing Chain by Frank Berto
2. The Golden Age of Handbuilt Bicycles, Jan Heine and Jean-Pierre Praderes (Photographer)
Late to the party, but I can't resist! So heartening to read others have gone retro and prefer down tube shifters. I built up two bikes with Campy Record paddle shifters with white plastic washers and stainless steel tensioner wingnuts. The pair on the fendered bike stays clean for several years. The pair on the fenderless bike I clean once or twice a year. I've used them for 150,000 miles over 35 years and they've aged to a smooth shine.
You could change out a cable with an 8 mm allen wrench on the road, easier than changing a tire. But you'll never have to. The efficient short run cables usually break at the shift lever or BB shell, both places plainly visible. Plenty of warning, unlike STI that break deep inside the lever hood with no warning.
Rider can play the gears working the shifter lever, sliding back and forth at-will finding the correct gear. The levers are right there behind the head tube, a very easy place to reach, pretty much out of the wind, and completely independent of steering or bike balance. Grant Peterson wrote a truthful rant describing his bikes as "manual bikes." No clicks or snaps, nothing more deliberate than reverse tension on down tube shifters! Snugging down the wing nut before hammering up a hill is part of the game.
Oh yeah, toe clips and straps! They'll work equally well with tennis shoes or cleated cycling shoes, on the same pedals. Your feet stay connected, regardless. You can loosen or tighten the straps, easily pull out in an emergency. What more could you ask for? Keirin racers still use clips and straps because the straps fit snugger than shoe tops on the upstrokes, and the rat trap pedal platform distributes force over the widest area of the foot. Racers snubbed Look pedals when they came out for not being as stable as the old rat traps.
Thank you!
I was at the museum over the holidays a couple of years ago and got a private tour from Joe Breeze as it was a slow day, we just geeked out. Not only did we go over the old old stuff but he had extensive knowledge of the various iterations of racers and their bikes as displayed in the museum. Best museum experience ever!!
What an excellent video, museum, and person. Thank you so much for sharing. Celebrating down tube shifters after years of living on the handbar shifters. Now restomoding a Gitane from 1979, with down tube shifters, what else…
This is one of the reasons I love cycling. Its like you never stop learning or actually realizing something. I've never really seen any advantage to down tube shifters until the point was made, in this video, about the cable run and how simple and direct it is. No spongy, curvy, cables housing coming right from the handlebars to compromise the actually shifting. Certainly a worthy consideration. Thanks Henry for opening my eyes.
None of the points mentioned can account for the fact that there's no control of a bike when shifting, due to a single hand remaining on the handlebar (handlebars is two or more).
@@barrybarry5803 Certainly a fair point. I have to add that although I see certain advantages of down tube shifters I would never pick them by choice.
@@barrybarry5803So you never take a hand off the bars? Not even to indicate turns and stops? That makes you a bad rider.
@@peterwillson1355 ~ fortunately i have big bum cheeks, i flex my right cheek and it's obvious to anyone driving behind me that something is happening, that they need to be aware... i flex my left cheek and it's quite obvious to anyone driving behind me that something is happening, that they need to be aware, once i have a motorists attention i'm able to confidently proceed with my turn... when both my cheeks begin flexing like a 6.9 earthquake motorists are well aware that they need to reduce their speed, and, to hang back as i slowly come to a stop!!!
I'm 57 so I started with downtube friction shifters back in the 70's. Well, there was a 40lb Schwinn Varsity in there somewhere with stem mounted shifters but let's not speak of that. I never gave the downtube type a second thought. It was simply what you had to do to shift. I have to chuckle when I hear young riders these days call them "suicide shifters". The friction type work well if you don't have to many cogs in back to keep track of. I would draw the line at 8 speed. You shift them by ear and with muscle memory, sort of like playing a fretless bass.
I had been riding road bikes with brifters for years. When I built up a touring bike I put some Silver downtube shifters on it. I loved the simplicity of them, but didn't like the reach. So i compromised and put them on the bar ends. Love my bar-ends on my touring bike. I ride it way more often than my road bike anymore.
I let one of my riding buddies ride it one day, and it was like watching a cat try to dial a phone. He kept saying "How do I change gears!!". He was baffled on why I would use them. LOL.
I have bikes with downtube shifters and others with bar-mounted shifters. After swapping bikes, I can definitely relate to "cat try to dial a phone".
pictures? I would like to see that.
Again, a fascinating and wonderful discussion. Thank you. I started with stem mounted friction levers, eventually moved to down tube mounted friction, then index, and brifters. I like down tube friction shifters for numerous reasons and they all boil down to simplicity. They are easy to maintain. One never needs to really tune the shifting after setting the limit screws. They don't break in the field easily, and if they do they're easily reparable. They virtually eliminate chain and derailleur comparability issues. Finally, the aesthetics of having the line of the largest tube on the frame broken by the shifters really adds to the beauty of the machine.
Will Clauson is awesome. So much knowledge and love of the subject.
I love the simplicity of good old Durace down tube shifters. Also it allows my bars to look so clean and clutter free.
Mr. Clauson such a humble person! Thanks for this vid.
8:33 "His hands were frozen and his nuts were frozen", that's winter cycling for you, we've all been there.
he meant the nuts, as in the nuts for the bolt lol
Wow, another great video......Will Clausen 👍👍👍 like hitting a gold mine!
Thanks for the video and capturing the tour!
“And if there’s one thing I’ve learned about bicycles, is that the discussion is never over” 👌🏻
Downtube shifters: simple, elegant, reliable. Sort of the manual transmission of the bike world. I probably still have a set somewhere in my shed. Now you've got me thinking about a retro build.
Cool & interesting, including the bicycle museum. Great video!
IMHO your best vid to date. Like you I also use down-shifters having grown up with them as a youngster (except on my mk II Chopper, of course), in addition to toe clips and toes straps. I've had various shifters over the years, but when I took up long-distance and Audaxing I went straight back to down-shifters. In addition to all the points you raised they are simply a signature of coolness, and in an age of complexity having something so simple and mechanical bucks the norm and gets a lot of attention. I always carry a spare gear cable but have never had to replace it. Knowing that if I do I won't have to try and thread it through a tiny aperture in a frame made of plastic is a truly comforting thought. They can go wrong, of course. I've had two left-hand down-shifter ratchets go on me - one on a 1200km audax, so popping spares in the bag might be an idea for long rides in foreign lands (as they are not so easy to procure in the back of beyond).
Finally I must say that the piece in the Marin Museum was truly inspirational and thanks for sharing those historical details. There's a similar museum in the UK in Wales and you can lose yourself for hours mesmerised by all of the brilliant engineering and engineering of a forefathers. I fear you've opened up a Pandoras box here as there's a massive amount of potential future vids around retro bikes and cycling history and technology. Look forward to future instalments.
this is just a great video!! loved it. ive ridden through that area a few times but never went to the museum..but i will now!! i bumped into Gary Fisher a few years ago when he was alone, riding a borrowed bike, admiring planes landing at national airport here in DC en route to the LAB bike summit. he was here for the National Bike Summit. He was very dressed up, in tweed. I talked with him for 20 minutes. he had some very radical ideas about bike issues, bicycle infrastructure and related issues in transportation and social structure -- i was so relieved!! i thought he was just a lukewarm, apolitical bike nerd -- but he isn't! so there is hope... today i rode my 94 mile loop out to Velo Orange world headquarters, and talked with Igor, and the VO gang, and he mentioned meeting you and enjoying talking with you. anywho...im rambling on. and by the way, of course downtube shifters are awesome...
I'm pleased to hear Mr. Ritchey is also a bicycle advocate. We need more of those in positions of influence. I hope to get to meet him again. I was lucky to ride with him up King Ridge a few years ago at one of the Gran Fondo's held here. He was actually very approachable and was willing to answer some of my dumb questions. I had a great time meeting Igor! I wanted to catch up with him a little more while I was there, but the events unfolded so quickly. I hope to get another chance. Tell him I said hello when you see him again.
Hey Henry! Thanks for sharing your visit to Marin Bicycle Museum. Really interesting!
I noticed your tribute to the tail drift heroes. 👏👏👏
These guys are legends! In the 70's they were converting 1930's townie bikes into downhill mountain bikes! That's the spirit of bike riding right there.
I also like the fact that downtube shifters require you to shift position on your bike regularly to change gear. I find that it helps comfort a little on longer rides.
Fantastic video Henry probably the best you have done. Really fascinating insight and the visit to Marin was great. Brought up on downtube shifters on my Raleigh Arena, which reminds me I need to rebuild that Peugeot Px10 with the Simplex downtube shifters and rear derailleur with the modern wonder product of the early 70's plastic. Keep making the videos and you have one hell of a good music collection.
Great to see you back on the television.
Down tube shifters also require you to move your hands and change your points of contact with the bike which reduces fatigue on long rides. They'are also easy to repair and unlikely to break. They're also inherently lighter than integrated shift levers without even accounting for the extra cable housing.
Love the simplicity and efficiency Henry. I just got me a Surly Ghost Grappler :) and replaced the brifters with some bar end levers and TRP drilled brake levers. Used the indexing function for the first couple of rides then switched it over to friction mode. Man, it's so nice to be in control again. I can trim gears, bulk shift and never be concerned about cable stretch and bad shifts.
For 25 years I have had Shimano brifters in road bikes but I think that I prefer this friction shifting caper!
Thanks for the channel.
This may be your best video yet. I definitely need a copy of Dancing Chain now.
I've never used downtube shirfters, I only started road biking in 2015. In the 80s I was big into BMX bikes and dirt jumping. Anyway, that bike museum is the coolest thing ever.
Henry - great video. Really interesting stuff about the development of the derrailier. The Patent Office facts about the number of patents relating to bikes was great - ah the golden days before the car took over.
What an amazing video. Would love to visit the museum.
I had a road bike in the 90s with downtube shifters. I love the simplicity. I like the position of bar-end shifters, better, so that's what I have on my road bike and my touring bike now.
Thanks for your video. Hola from Montgat Barcelona
All my bikes have DT shifters with the exception of my touring bike, which has bar end shifters. I’m a bit older and started with DT shifters as that’s was all there were back in the day. However, when STI came along, I had bikes in the 90’s that had them. They are nice for racing for those times when you pick the wrong gear for an out-of-the-saddle sprint-with STI you can shift whilst standing. But I eventually switched back to DT shifters after I got into Randonneuring, I found them simply not reliable, particularly in nasty, wet weather when the cable housing friction from rainy grime and grit could cause problems. Bottom line, DT shifters are significantly lighter, elegantly simple, robust, last forever, aren’t subject to crash damage (as brifters are), and WAY cheaper than integrated shifting. Plus, as you mention, I can shift multiple cogs as well as front rings with one throw of the hand; and I can shift any rear wheel I can fit in the dropouts, regardless of number of cogs..
With Campagnolo Ergopower brifters you can also shift down several gear at once...
I started on an old bike with a Sturmney Archer handlebar lever for a 3 speed cyclic gear, then moved onto a 'racer' with a 5 speed downtube shifter when I bought the bike in 1970. In ye olde days there was a considerable cable pull to move rear derailleuers up and down. My racing days in the 70s and 80s were all on downtube levers, and they worked well ! I retired from racing and cycling at the end of 1989. I started cyling again in 2000 and blimey ! My downtube shifters were out of fashion (even though they still worked ) I upgraded to Shimano and my down tube shifters were history (they are in my shed )
I have 5 bikes with brifters, and 2 older bikes with DTs. I don't use handlebar bags. I prefer the brifters because I do not have to remove a hand from the hoods to shift. If I were to buy another custom bike, or an off the shelf bike, I would go with brifters. I have a 27 year old Trek 5200 with Ultegra brifters. They still function perfectly.
I'm like you, I had every other type of shifters and finally got a bike with DT shifters, it's really nice, so much so in fact I think I might get one for my road bike.
Gentlemen let me present this is how you do a good video. Good retro cycling tech with valid points of view, missed out probably the most important one. Index shifters can be switched over too fiction if something goes wrong or you damage the gear. If you touring this is an important point. Big Bonus we get a visit to cycle museum..🚲....Brilliant. 🚲
Am doing a rebuild into a cheap gravel bike with downtube shifters for the reason stated above, freewheel with
42 x 14 - 34. Should be interesting 😊
I’ve only watched the first half, as need to start my working day, although so-far this my favourite YT vid of 2019. Thank you for taking the time and effort, and especially for filming the gentleman talk us through the history of the derailleur - how very interesting and inspirational. I ride friction thumb & bar-end, although my soon to arrive Roadini will be down-tube for sure 👍
Best, J: )
Currently have an older Bianchi road bike with down tube shifters. Personally I liked both brifters, down tube, and bar ends. Also love the old school thumb shifters on my mountain / commuter. ..
I was raised on downtube shifters. It was a minor skill to use them, but easily acquired. It really annoys me when nowadays someone will call them “suicide shifters.” From the point of view of weight, simplicity and durability they are still very attractive, a shame they have become so rare.
I haven't tried downtube shifters yet, but I do run friction shifters on two bikes: one's a thumbie on a 1x8 drivetrain, and the other uses Suntour Barcons. While my index-shifting brifters on my other bike works just fine, I just find it more satisfying to move a friction shifter to just the right spot and hear the chain engage with the gear! Like someone else already said, I guess it's that "analog" connection.
That would make a great tagline: Friction Never Dies! 😁
what a charming and knowledgeable man
delightful chat with Will Clauson
Integrated brake lever shifters have advantages, of course, but sometimes those advantages are offset. You list a good set of reasons why downtube shifters have their own advantages. My own path is that I was a committed rider during the days when it was friction shifting only, and the two options to down tube shifters were friction stem mount shifters and friction bar ends. I had one bike, back in the 70s, that had the Suntour ratchet bar ends, but the rest were downtube friction. At one time I had a 'top-mount' downtube shifter that worked on a cam so that when you shifted the rear deraileur it 'trimmed' the front deraileur at the same time. Sort of. Fast forward a few years, and indexed shifting came along but I was late to that party. I tried STI for a short bit but it didn't seem worth it. I wanted the indexing and some of the positioning that STI offered over downtube so I went to Shimano bar end shifters which were on nearly every bike I had. In the last couple years though I've decided to try downtube again, and like you did it to simplify the cockpit area (big improvement whether I have a handle bar bag or not). Bar end shifters with the housing under the bar tape the whole way requires longer cables for the rear than is common so I had to buy tandem cables just to have it long enough. With down tube I don't have to worry about that. I expect that when I pack my bike for PBP it will be easier to manage with downtube. I also find I have to do a fair bit of trimming with bar ends that isn't an issue with downtube. I am slowly moving all my bikes back to down tube now. When I ride one of the last two bikes I have with bar ends, it takes a while to remember to find the levers at the ends of the bars rather than on the downtube. I know of some people that have rigged indexed stem shifting on their current bikes. I've never liked the aesthetics of stem mount shifters and maybe have it locked in my head from many years ago that stem shifting equates with low level bikes.
Interesting to hear about your experiences and history with shifting, Rob!
When I'm on my road bike I find myself reaching down for the shifters only to realize I have the brifters! It took me a little while to like downtube shifters. I recall the first few rides not liking them, and then after going back to riding the brifter bike, I got the urge to want to go out ride my DT shifter bike. It was like rediscovering bike riding. From there I just found I enjoyed being able to trim the rear derailleur while I was riding, and soon enough I could pull the lever right to the gear I wanted. It was like that moment of learning how to type without looking at the keyboard. They are pretty neat!
That's a lot of reasons for downtube shifters! The main reason for me too is simplicity and less cable, though I also use bar ends, and even stem mounted Twin Stiks on some of my Schwinns, but so far no brifters. I never considered shifting front and rear simultaneously as a downtube plus, though Suntour Symmetric shifters, which I believe were original equipment on the 1983 Specialized Expedition, apparently auto-trimmed the front while shifting the rear.
Really interesting to hear from Will Clauson. It's amazing how much knowledge there is around bicycles and Will seems to live and breathe it. It was a real treat to hear from him. I just got some bar end Dia Compe shifters which sound similar to the Dia Compe downtube shifters you mentioned. They seem rather long compared to similar Suntour and Shimano bar ends, I'm not sure where I will use them yet.
Re: The Paris-Roubaix derailleur, what prevents the wheel from falling out, maybe the range of the cam lever for shifting? Or maybe it's the back pedaling?
Will and all the others at the Marin Bicycle Museum are just incredibly knowledgeable folks. What really amazed me is that they all do this voluntarily. If you ever get a chance it's worth a visit. On the Paris-Roubaix Bianchi I'm not sure how the wheel was held into the dropout as far as when the gears were being shifted? I do recall Will saying something about how there was a way to get the wheel off to change a flat tire. It's a neat design in that it has lower friction than other systems using jockey wheels and a shorter chain.
I'd read that book on derailers and i ride Single Speed. I do like the point of downtube shifters being neater especially for someone like me who likes to change up the bars a lot...
Wow, I just feel like I’ve been given a private tour of cycling history by Will Clausen. Awesome video, thank you 🙏
H. W., a truly, wonderful vlog!!! So inspiring and insightful. Thank you for creating and sharing. Much appreciated!!! I know I have mentioned it before, but Gevenalle shifters get my vote. Front is friction with either index or friction option in the rear. Keep up the terrific work. By the looks of the subscription numbers there are many who approve and appreciate your style. All the Best, Rob
I have downtube Shimano Dura-Ace shifters on all my bikes and the most important reasons are: 1) They are simple to operate; 2) I can shift several gears at a time; 3) The clutter at the handlebars is much reduced; 4) They are easier to reach when testing and adjusting the derailleurs on the stand; 5) Brifters eventually suffer wear leading to reduced shifting efficiency making an expensive replacement necessary because they can't be repaired.
I'd like to give the Shimano DT shifters try one day. Mine are all friction only.
Those are pretty knarly trails for that bike. Good on you for powering down mountain trails on a rigid bike. Can’t wait to go visit that museum. I used to live in San Rafael. This must be relatively new because I don’t remember it being there.
You're going to love it. I'll post a link in the description to the Museum. They opened it up just a few years ago. It's expanding too! Depending on when you go there may be more bikes on display. Have fun!
Great video, I love the history of things and bicycle history just is SO interesting. A big thank you for recording the very knowledgeable historian. Fascinating!
I never had any problems with the downtube shifters on my 1985 Miyata 210. Very responsive and smooth in operation. Also, I was able to upgrade from a 5-speed to a 7-speed freewheel and keep the original shifters and derailleurs.
I grew up with friction shifters on the down tube and agree with everything you said. I miss that quick shift capability while accelerating in traffic from a stop light. With my first road bike in the 80s, I used to be able to shift from 1st through 4th rapidly, then change the front and do it again. New indexed shifting is more precise, but slow. Also, if my SRAM gets a bit out of adjustment, the gears jump or fail to shift. That never happened with the friction shifters. I'd just adjust until it was silent and not rubbing on the neighboring sprocket. Easier.
Great video. AWESOME SONG!
I have downtube shifters on my 1984 Miyata & Nishiki. They still work great.
Another great video Henry. I was raised on DT shifters. Over the past fwe years, I've been replacing my DT shifter with STI's and one bike with Ergo shifters. Mainly for convenience . I've kept one bike, with DT just for the sake of having one. Yes, I've even raced , while in Europe, with DT shifters, one handed , too.
Racing in Europe! Cool! I haven't tossed the brifters out completely. I certainly like them, and I think for fast group rides, and off-road rinding being able to hold on to the bars while shifting is great. For touring and casual putting around exploring I like the DT shifters. It's also easier to walk into a bike shop and find compatible parts for brifters. Each have their benefits.
Club racing, belonged to a local German club, late 80s.
The same thing happened to me: I grew up with thumb shifters on MTB and Touring Bike (at least 150k ridden on them). I never owned a road bike, but I was curious about downtube shifters. 1.5 years ago, I got a good retro mid 80ies road bike for $50. I wanted to know if a road bike was for me before putting money into a modern bike. It came with the downtubes. I now absolutely love them. Easy to no maintenance! I cannot overemphasize the maintainance. Super light and the ability to shift through the entire cassette both ways in just one pull or push, makes shifting ultra fast and that's despite all the initially awkward downreaching. It has now become my daily commuter. Needless to say that I still wait on investing in those pricey modern aero bikes with this downtube flyer at my hands. For full-load touring, though, the trekking bike wins due to its insane load capacities in front and back. Thanks for the video! Very interesting that 1895 50% of the patents were on bicycles in the U.S. I wonder what happened. Health care costs would be at a minimum today.
Aicko Yves Schumann that’s great to hear someone else likes them too and I’m not just going crazy!
I find bar end shifters the easiest to use on my touring bike. No problem with bar bag. Thanks for the videos, greetings from the UK. Loved the museum.
Last bike I had with downtube shifters was my Vitus. It would do huge tank slapper wobbles if I took my hand off the bars to shift at speed....good times.
Hi Henry,I do agree with you(in general).
Used downtube shifters during my race career,loved that i knew exactly what i was doing without looking down,i was able
to shift exact just by feeling.
Only problem is: riding in a bunch at high speed you don’t want to ride single handed!
Then i saw the cross bikes mid 70ties which had their shifters at the bar ends,and that is really a good solution.
They are still available for modern group sets,mostly used for the straight time trial bars-ideal.
I also highly recommend brake levers on the upper bar.As i live in the midde of a 2 million mega city i have to work my way through
heavy traffic,so im riding more upright in order to have better view.
These levers just take the same cable,you can see riders using them in Flandres or at Paris-Roubaix,i started to use them at my
randonneur,but shortafter put them on most of my bikes.More convenience and more safety👍🙏🚴🏽💦
Now that was an education, wonderfully done. Thanks
Thank you! Will is a legend! I could talk to him for hours.
Recently found a '71 Peugeot PX10 which I restored. Still getting used to downtube shifters and toe clips, but I love the classic look, not to mention passing riders younger than my bike.
I just built up a bike with DT shifters - then rode a 300km brevet. It was a bit weird at first, and I was worried about being able to hit the gears cleanly and stay in gear with a friction-shifting 11sp. Turns out that this wasn't a problem at all. I love how quick and smooth the front shifts are. I was using the same set of derailleurs with indexed bar end shifters before and the front shifting was already good - with DT shifters, the front shifting is a dream. Once I got the hang of it, I came to see one-hand shifting as THE solution for properly and quickly shifting into the lower ring (with the appropriate upshift in back) on a big hill.
I had a mechanical with the rear derailleur early in the ride, and it was very simple to fix quickly, thanks to the DT shifters. This was one of the big reasons I wanted DT shifters; as I was planning to do longer and longer rides, I didn't want to get stopped by a mechanical truly far away from home. Now I am confident that this is far less likely.
I still enjoy bar-ends and brifters for different reasons, but I am very glad to welcome DT shifters to the stable.
Downtube levers are much less likely to fail and if there ever is a problem you can fix them yourself with basic tools.Some of the brake/shift levers are like a Pandora's box of complexity.Something to think about if you should be riding in remote areas or in poor parts of the world where the slick exotic cutting edge things we can get are not to be had.
Excellent video! Thanks!
I agree 100%, Apart from purely race oriented bikes, for all others, downtube shifters are superior. The only possible competitors are the friction barend shifters. Unfortunately many new frames do not have anymore the braze-on to accommodate the shifters.
@rollinrat4850 - Pretty sure bolt-on brackets are no longer manufactured.
Wow. This is so entertaining. Thank you.
Why downtube shifters? Because that's what God intended.
Awesome interview, video, and museum
Thank you!
This was a terrific video! So interesting! Thanks for uploading!
That was fun
Great video...kind of place I could spend a good amount of time in!!
I just added a pair of DT shifters to my old B'stone. It was my single speed Ramp Rat (airport ramp transportation), and now I'm tinkering with it as a bombproof road/gravel/apocalypse ride. The downtube shifters fit right into that.
They're also so bloody easy to set up
Try fixing brifters 50 miles into the desert and it's 115 degrees. 'Been there. I have many bikes, types, shifter systems. Love 'em all, however, I like Dt's for the same reasons as you. There's still applications for them. Thanks!
It’s so cool !! I have in one of my soma saga
More good points. Thanks 👍
Now that Covid is almost under control, I can't wait to get back to the museum for more inquiring topics.
Excellent video!
Absolute Amazing Video!
Best Regards from Brasil Henry!!
Hello Sergio! I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
I have a collection of vintage bikes.
But I have a modern bike for longer rides. I really apreciate the Shimano's smooth shifting.
Pretty much interested in. Also good music !! I love Cars !
Ack! I need to go to that museum!!!
BTW, your Rivendell shifters are copies of the old Suntour Power-ratchet design. I have a pair and as you mention they work well.
The power ratchet is nice! Rivendell needs to get some more on order. Last I checked they were out of stock!
Specifically, the Silver shifters are clones of Suntour Sprint downtube shifters. Suntour improved the Power Ratchet for that model; they had a finer ratchet which allows more precise trimming. The Silvers include this finer ratchet mechanism. In the '80s I had a couple older, courser Suntour Power Ratchet shifters and they were fine over a 6 speed freewheel but the Silvers allow me to shift comfortably over a Shimano 10-speed cassette!
Cool stuff in that museum. Stuff I've not seen before.
As a kid having a bike meant everything! I'd transformed that simple vessel and mode of transportation into a lifetime love affair, I could be a knight on an iron horse, I was an explorer on new every day adventures it allowed me from being a normal kid into an adult, making and learning grown up man responsibilities huge decisions, about where to go, how far and how long, it was my magic carpet I rode it everywhere, to school, the store, the next neighborhood, parks and a few popular swimming holes! Really miss those days, I didn't care about gears, brands or carbon fibers, all I cared for was having air on my tires, all I wanted was to have fun while riding it! I don't dare tell anyone that riding my bike nowadays it liberates me makes me feel like a kid again!
I started on quill stem shifters, perhaps some of you remember those. Later, downtube shifters became more popular, and I didn't like them because they were a long reach and I had to take my eyes off the roads filled with motor-powered death. STI was a God-send, and I will never use downtube shifters again. I recognize that you like the retro gear and aesthetic, and that may bias you towards the downtube shifters. 10 grams of extra cable sheath isn't going to bother me and the cockpit is just as tidy, and my downtube is even tidier. As with most things, ride whatever keeps you riding! :D
I have a couple of bikes with STI shifters and I like them very much, and they work very well. They also look good, light weight, and fit well on the modern bikes I ride too. I wouldn't say I am biased towards DT shifters. I do like the aesthetic of retro bikes, and since the DT shifters also look good on a classic inspired bike it's a win-win. It's great to have options.
I still have brifters on my road bike, I'm not planning for downtube shifters but I am aiming for bar end shifters which are similar
I built a soma es up just 2 years ago with DT shifters. I love it.
Downtube shifters are slick, especially if the bike has low to moderate trail-- less twitchy that way. My only bike without DT shifters is my townie beater with Suntour barends on North Road bars. I can carry 30 lbs. of compost on the front rack and not worry about eating shit on a pothole.
I used to believe that style of shifter was for racers from yesteryear... they are something to get used to. But nothing else is like em
...I was a 1960s bicycle guy...
...I rode a Schwinn Varsity with down tube rear shifter...
...and a seat tube shifter on the half step chain wheels...
I've swapped my silver shifters between downtube and bar-end so many times now. It mostly came down to what bars I'm using. With albatross, DT is perfect for me. Drops, I tend to prefer bar-end. Maybe it's a leverage thing when I've got a hand off? Either way, I just really love friction shifters as long as the terrain isn't too rough. It's so quiet and feels much more like you're riding the bike and not the other way around.
This reminds me of when I hear the younger generation calling things, "analog". It's this certain feeling of connecting directly with the bike through the shifts and where to place the lever I find very neat. I also feel comfortable knowing it's a simple fix if I break the lever or snap a cable. Also if you crash the brake levers always seem to take a brunt of the impact. With these they are pretty cheap to replace.
In 2010 when I started riding all of the Rando rides I switched back to downtube friction shifting for a few reasons: hardly any maintenance needed, extemely reliable, does not need any batteries to make it work, very light and accurate! My D/T shifters has never failed me yet.......
A trusted opinion! Thanks Bob!
A really great video. Loved the Marin Museum tour. My path to downtubes was similar to yours. I had Shimano STI brifters on my first road bike, but later discovered the simplicity of downtube mounted shifters. Now of my five road bikes, three have downtubes (one friction and two indexed), one has bar ends, and the last has Campy Ergo brifters. (That bike is a 97 Waterford purchased used with an original full Campy Chorus group I am reluctant to break up. But if the shifters ever break or wear out, I'm looking for Campy bar ends.) I agree with all five of your points and have mentally listed all of them prior to viewing this. Downtube shifters are simpler and cheaper, they just work and simplify the bike, especially as you point out, the "cockpit" area. In a RUclips video highlighting his 88 Paramount team bike, Alan McCormack mentions the bike's indexed downtube shifters, commenting on how reliable and easy to use they are compared to more modern lever mounted shifters. You should take a look at that if you haven't seen it already.
Suntour cyclone friction DT shifters👍 so simple. Personally i would use indexed on anything more than 8 spd as after that the gears are too closely spaced and getting a clean shift takes a little too much " finesse" for me, especially in noisy traffic or on bumpy roads
My Raleigh Special Products Cross bike had a bar end shifter-I did like the setup.
Great video Henry. Your video is quite dynamic, lots of great content of beautiful landscapes. I wonder if the popular gravel scenes in places like Oregon and Kansas, midwest, are currently making histories on the same scale as the mtn bike folks in 1970s-80s Marin county area? It seems midwestern gravel landscapes are becoming the most marketed by the bike media (maybe that's just me). I happen to have bar end shifters on my bikes but my friend is a firm believer in downtubes. I run my bar end cables up against the bars and out next to the stem. That keeps them out of my way on the trail etc.
Anyways, cool show!
Thank you, Green Shed Fabrications! Time will tell, but I think the gravel rides/races opens up the door for a lot of people, like mountain biking did in the 80's. I hope the trend continues.
“No-one’s improved on what they did 10, 20, 40 years ago…”
Good advice!
Going from thumbies as a kid to brifters when buying my first "real" bike, then to ratcheting downtubes and full on friction; I really wouldn't desire anything more unless I am going off-road. Ratcheting DT shifters don't feel as nice to use as friction, but they do eliminate ghost shifts and don't require any sort of finesse. Ghost shifts will always be a problem, but for how mechanically simple they are and pleasant to use, it feels like a small caveat. I won't shun indexed shifting either, I like my indexed bar ends on my off road bike, DT shifters are...genuinely terrible when you don't want to take your hands off the bars. Going down a really rough off-road trail, or are flying through mixed gravel and sand where the slightest overcorrection is going to yank the bars out of your hands and toss you to the ground. But every shifter has its place.
I think you summed it up well.
I had a chance to visit the area and museum fall of 2019. Wish I could have spent more time than just a day and actually get some riding in.
I learned and rode down tube friction shifters in the 1960s and have no issue with them. Pretty simple.
Very cool video - love the guided tour in the museum. But Henry! Please! Consider getting a camera with image stabilization. I think I'm gonna throw up now!
Regarding downtube shifters - it's amazing what you adapt to. My 1980's bike had them - never thought twice about it. Love the bar-end shifters on my touring bike.
Thanks Jerry, I appreciate the honest feedback. Hand held shots are definitely hard to keep stable. I'm pleased you still found the video informative, and a fan of the downtube shifter.
Love my DT shifters. The only reason I even have a bike with brifters is they came on my modern gravel bike, and the difficulty in using a handlebar bag on it is a bit annoying.
Its just my personal thing, but I still get huge satisfaction from making silent shifting with my simplex retro levers , on both my vintage racers. you very soon learn how to plant your chain exactly over your desired sprocket, sure you have to sit down to change gear before say climbing a hill, is that such a big deal ? if not racing?
Haven't had them in recent years but Campagnolo had (possibly still have) the ability to shift from largest cog to smallest all in one action. I loved using them but that was over 20 years ago.
20 years ago was not yesterday anymore....lol'.