I believe 1930s is too late to truly save Germanys liberal democracy, it would give way to some kind of major change. I think if we wanted to keep Weimar Germanies Liberal Democracy, the presidential election of 1925 is the way to go. The SPD candidate Otto Braun IOTL did not run during the second round of the election, the SPD supporting the Zentrum candidate Marx, which ended with Hindenburg winning. I believe if Otto Braun rescinded the Leadership of Prussia to Zentrum in exchange for support during the election, he could have won. Otto Braun was a known supporter of democracy and someone with a very firm, almost authoritarian leadership. He is the most likely candidate to ensure Germanys liberal democracy survived, IMO.
For me, it could be saved in 1932 if Von Papen would be elected president...He was from the Zentrum Party and if you count the Weimar Coalition and his temporary alliance with Hitler, Von Papen would be elected president easily although Hitler would still be elected as cancellor in 1933. If Von Papen discover that the Nazis burned the Reichstag, he could depose Hitler and Hitler, enfuriated by the treason of Von Papen, would launched a putsch in 1934...Von Papen would defeat the putsch and Hitler and the Nazi leaders would be executed after a trial...then Von Papen would lead Weimar Republic at least 1940, after that Hans Vogel would be elected president until 1948 and after that in 1949 Weimar Republic would change to the actual Germany like OTL...
It's hard to tell if the USSR would've actually invaded the Baltics in this timeline. Since they feared backlash from rest of the world... Up until Hitler came up with the well known Molotov-Ribentrop pact.
Important note about the war in China which you didn't touch on, Germany under the Weimar government had a relationship with the Chinese nationalist government where Germany armed and trained Chinese elite forces in exchange for Chinese raw materials for the German Industry, which continued even under the Nazi regime until the battle of Shanghai's end in Japanese victory, when Germany switched its "alliance" from China to Japan, as the pro-China lobby of industrialists lost their sway over the pro-Japanese lobby. With Weimar republic surviving, it would more likely maintain its alliance with Japan resulting possibly in a very unorthodox alliance between the Germans and Soviets in their support of China against Japan. With the Germans and British/French being closer as well, this would probably allow for the Germans to continue their aid to China via French Indochina from where a railway ran between Hanoi's nearby port and Chinese Kunming. With a continued reliable aid of German military training as long as Germany isn't attacked, the Chinese nationalists could feasably in my opinion manage to begin breaking the stalemate and push back against the Japanese after 1941, after the assembly of a new miltiary force loyal to Chiang's central government rebuilt from the remnants of the original elite forces destroyed during the battle of Shanghai. Simultaneously however the Germans might just as well restrain from their aid to China after seeing their trained forces get slaughtered in Shanghai from outdated WW1 tactics, creating a drift between Berlin and Chiang Kai Shek
i think another interesting scenario would be that, for some reasons, the Ruhr Crisis escalates to another Franco-German War, which might seem heavily in favor for France, but that would ignore the fact that it Germany would surely be supported by Britain and the USA and that germany still had millions of people ready to fight while the french would still be exhausted from WW1 (Germany feeling attacked would be way more willing to fight)
Weimar, and even early Nazi Germany had a military mission to Nationalist China. They sent advisers and trainers (with some military equipment) in return for raw materials like tungsten. It only really stopped due to Japanese pressure on the Nazis. Maybe in this time line we have a 'Dragon legion' instead of a Condor legion?
Knew the Weimar Republic was far less of a inevitable failure than the broad internet opinion has it out to be but never knew it was THIS close to being a survivable, functional democracy. Your channel is one of the reasons why I still look forward to people speculating about possibe alternative histories. Have you ever tought about doing alternative histories of smaller countries like those of eastern europe or south east asia, despite the limited impact of their alternative histories it will still extremely informative and quite interesting as an insight into historical ongoings of these smaller countries and how these changes from their alternate histories might change the decisions of the larger powers that surround them
The Weimar Republic was doomed. The constitution was deeply flawed, and there were too many internal and external pressures. What it collapses into (a collapse in this scenario can be as simple as replacing the constitution with a new one) is the question
I think you kinda misunderstand the situation in China preventing a limited victory in the 2nd Sino-Japanese war, Japan would be very happy with the peace you proposed; China's nationalist government and the US absolutely wouldn't
Too bad. The Chinese couldn't push the Japanese back themselves. So it would be a stalemate for years until they both realized that and settled on accepting the new borders that way. The US wouldn't like it but they're not intervening this time so there's nothing they can do.
@@creatoruser736 Exactly, the US may hate it, but they won't revolve their entire foreign policy around it and attack Japan, they would need a strong justification like pearl harbor to send military action, but since Pearl harbor doesn't happen, they don't have any leg to stand on to send military troops to attack Japan, Congress knows they would be ousted by the American public if they attack Japan just to help China, as far as the American public is concerned, they are attacking a nation completely unprovoked.
2:35 The Weimar Republic wasn't a parliamentary republic, it was semi-presidential. The strong power of the president was a result of the SPD wanting to hold onto power and having the presidency, which is a reason for why the term was ridiculously long. The SPD of the time was closer to reformist socialism than to modern social democracy.
Was never going to happen. The only mainstream German party that believed in the Weimar republic was the SPD. The SPD was the only party to vote against the Enabling act and by the 1932 election, the Nazis and the Communists had gotten 50% of the vote. The centre party voted for the enabling act. The DNVP led by Alfred Hugenberg allied itself with the NS. If there was no Austrian man then there would have been either a military dictatorship or some right wing authoritarian regime. One problem with Weimar Germany was that there weren't any popular mainstream conservative, nationalist parties that accepted democracy and the republic. There were too many parties that rejected democracy and the republic. Essentially the SPD were the only party that truly defended the republic until its dying days.
I'd love to see more of this timeline. In particular I would like to see what you think would happen with colonial Africa & Asia as well as with the US. In particular the US would still be powerful but probably wouldn't reach its power it did in our timeline and maybe it might be more open to international cooperation at least with the West. Also a scary part is the fact that without the shock of how far the Nazi's went, could we see even worse discrimination in the US for some time?
It’s certainly possible ofc Matt didn’t touch upon what the US did in this ATL so maybe the New Deal puts a lid on racial discrimination for a few years but with Southern Democrats in power FDR would still be limited just like in our timeline. That being said with France and possibly Germany being more open to Black Americans (not sure if they would’ve been open to Blacks from their own colonies tbh) it does open another avenue for freedom of expression. But we’ll never know.
More important than if Reconstruction was successful if why it was NOT successful. It was imposed to quickly and too harshly to ever be truly successful, and as it was, it was a matter of time before the Radical Republicans had to make a choice whether to hold to the principle or hold onto the White House. That question is like, what if slavery was abolished sooner? Now I am no defender of slavery, but the time for arguing the morality of it was just before it was adopted in the first place, a time when nobody thought that it MIGHT be morally wrong. By the time anyone did start questioning the ethics of slavery, it was already well-established in the New World. Of course, it would have been much easier to persuade slaveowners to give up the practice by arguing on the ways slavery harmed plantation owners' pecuniary well-being.
5:07 One COULD make the argument that Germany COULD feasibly pay war reparations. That is a LONG shot from the claim that war reparations imposed by Britain and France weren't too harsh and utterly vindictive. That is the weakest part of this alternate history, the rest is AMAZING.
17:10 A tiny correction: in 1932, Italy was NOT sympathetic to the NSDAP, seeing the German version of fascism as a bastardized hybrid of the worst aspects of nationalism and socialism, both of which Mussolini viewed as deeply inferior to his Italian Corporatism (Itself a blending of Imperialist Fascism with Syndicalism). Mussolini was well known for despising H1tler, often insulting him to his face in back-country Italian (whilst smiling), the which language the mustachioed madman most-assuredly did NOT understand.
Women whoring themselves out for a $1 a night, followed by fortunes being erased Through hyper inflation and the majority of the population viewing democracy has foreign Anglo-Saxon colonization might’ve had a bit of an influence on that.
Lets also mention, that the republic did not just have a lack of responce during the depression, but full on austarity. welfare cuts and the like during massive depression. These "reforms" were supported by the center right, but the SPD also lacked a proper responce, with many of them opposing much the stimulus or Keynesian style spending
Keynesianism wasn't a solid thing until well after the depression started and Hitler was in power. Japan was the only country in the world that I'm familiar with that did economic stimulus before 1932, but it's also understandable why other countries didn't at this point
I disagree with your assessments on the USSR and Israel. The Soviet annexation of the Balitics and Besserabia happened with the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, I doubt the Soviets would invade without that. In real world the allies considered goining to war with the Soviets even while at war with Germany, Also Romania was part of the little Entente and supported by France. Also while Poland had a beef with Lithuania I doubt without any threat from Germany they wouldn't stand up against Soviets annexing all of the Baltics. As for Israel, even without the Nazis, antisemitism was on the rise in Europe. Also though there's less motivations to leave Europe on one hand, there are far more Jews, the Holocaust destroyed 2/3 of European Jews, even if there less reasons to migrate, there's larger pool of people for potential migrants. Also with a slower migration of Jews, there would be less tension in the Mandate of Palestine, combined with a Britain not destroyed by WWII, they may keep the mandate longer. All these combined may mean Israel would have enough people to be established, either in borders similar to real world or smaller borders. There's also the fact that the Soviet Jews would not have been killed in the Holocaust either, and unlike European Jews, they would definitely leave once the USSR collapses. So Israel may ultimately end up with more Jews then our world.
An equivalent of a Ribbentrop-Molotov pact would still be possible. It is not like Germans, the painter in charge or not, had much love for Poland, while the French and the British could abandon the Baltics or even Poland or Romania to an extent. They could develop a mutual understanding with the Russians that that only the lands East of the Curzon line are protected. It could be this timeline's version of the Appeasement. I think you are right about Israel. People forget that a number of European countries were only like 5 steps behind the Germans in the treatment of their respective Jewish minorities. A number of countries would have likely "encouraged" Jewish emigration.
Brüning's austerity policy was the problem. During the Great Depression he tried to save money to get out of the crisis. This causes unemployment and only makes the crisis worse. This indirectly brought the Nazis to power. By the way, Germany is currently pursuing austerity policies again with similar but not quite as serious consequences
I think the Weimar Republic could have been saved as late as April 1932. After Hindenburg won the presidency, and replaced Brüning with Von Papen, the Weimar Republic was effectively over. As others have mentions, I think there were two candidates who could have ran against Hindenburg and saved the Weimar Republic, Otto Braun and Hugo Eckener. Those two candidates were opposed to the NZ’s, and the other parties that wanted to end the Republic.
Continued: I also think the Weimar Republic could have been saved in March 1930, if the SPD and the DVP came to terms on the issue of unemployment assistance. Their disagreement of unemployment assistance, resulted in the collapse of the SPD-DDP-Z-BVP-DVP coalition, which caused the beginning of governments appointed by President Hindenburg. If that coalition survived March 1930, it could give the SPD more time to create a New Deal-style plan to reduce the worst effects of the Great Depression. With an economic plan in place, the fringe parties would not rise to as much of the vote as in OTL, maybe the top fringe party getting 15-20% of the vote instead of 33-37% of the vote.
In La Parte de L'Autre, French author Éric-Emmanuel Schmitt takes Hitler's rejection by the Viennese art school as a point of divergence. It's been over ten years since I read it, but I remember a shorter war breaking out in which Germany takes back some territory from Poland. Not sure if the Weimar republic survives though.
We do also need to consider if Weimar Germany would gain any territory. Germany would most likely annex Austria, Danzig, Memel, and maybe even the Sudentland. Here are those countries and territories and how likely they were to be annexed. Austria. Austria is the most likely country to become a part of Germany. Not only were both of them German speaking nations but also a majority of Austrians supported unifying with Germany. Without the rise of the Austrian Painter and his Allie’s many more Austrians would continue to attempt to unify with Germany. Therefore it is very likely that Austria would unify with Germany. While the Entente officially forbid Germany from joining Austria it is likely that like in our timeline Britain and France would be unwilling to go to war again and would therefore most likely allow the unification. Also with no ww2 Austria would remain a part of Germany to the present day. Danzig. Like Austria Danzig was a majority German speaking country. Unlike Austria however Danzig was formerly a part of Germany before they became independent following the end of ww1. I could see Germany negotiating a deal with Poland and other countries in which Germany would regain Danzig in return for bettering relations with Poland. Like with Austria with no ww2 Danzig would remain a part of Germany to the present day. Memel territory. Like Danzig Memel was formerly a part of Germany before it was annexed by Lithuania after the end of ww1. Germany and Lithuania had relatively good relations before 1933 when he who shall not be named came to power and Without his rise to power I could see Germany negotiating a deal with Lithuania in which it would regain the Memel territory. Like with Austria and Danzig with no ww2 the Memel territory would remain a part of Germany to the present day. Sudentland. This is one of the least likely options as Czechoslovakia in our timeline was unwilling to cede the territory to Germany. However it could still happen. Let’s say that Britain and France still remained concerned about the potential for Germany starting another war thus resulting in them meeting with German representatives where they would then attempt to make a agreement with each other that would prevent any further war just like what happened with the Munich Conference in our timeline. Then let’s say that like in our timeline they agree to cede the Sudentland to Germany in return for Germany not expanding any further in Europe. After that it is likely that like in our timeline Czechoslovakia would let Germany annex the Sudentland in a attempt to remain independent and prevent a further war. Like with Austria, Danzig, and Memel with no ww2 the Sudentland would remain a part of Germany to the present day. Germany would not annex any of their futher former territory from France, Poland, and Belgium as they would almost certainly refuse to give them back to Germany. Germanys Jewish population would also grow from 500.000 to between 750.000 and 800.000 with over 200.000 Jewish people living in Austria, between 23.000 and 24.000 Jewish people living in the Sudentland, 10.000 Jewish people living in Danzig, and 6.000 Jewish people living in the Memel territory. Therefore Germany would have one of the largest Jewish populations other than places such as the United States and Poland.
What an enjoyable video! Also, without a second European war in the 20th century, the British Empire would have survived, and America would have less political, economic and military power.
The fatal wound was inflicted in the treaty of Versieas. The Reichswhear limited to 100,000 men was too small to deal with the post war chaos. This led to the Freicorps, private military being in the forefront of fighting the left wing militias. They might have been able to do it with 250,000 troops total tanks, planes. War might have still come to Europe. Imagine a Soviet invasion of Poland and German tanks racing to meet the threat east of Warsaw.
Why is Italy not highlighted as part of the European Union? Is it because them being fascist makes them a pariah in this timeline so they wouldn't be included?
Let's take it a step further and look at the timeline without the assassination of the Archduke Ferdinand. WWI was the result of family connections as much as political intrigue. The assassination led to WWI, which led to the bankruptcy of Germany and the rise of the Nazi party, the fall of the Ottoman Empire, the Bolshevik Revolution, the German loss of colonies in Africa and Asia, the European portion of WWII (the Japanese war in China would continue regardless of what was happening in Europe), the creation of Israel, and the immigration of Europe's best and brightest to England and the US. If Germany had not gone bankrupt, then the possible prosperity may have kept the Nazi party on the sidelines. The north Africa and middle east countries created by Winston Churchill's father would not exist and would instead continue to be a part of the Ottoman Empire (oil being discovered would have created an immensely rich and powerful Empire for the Caliphate). Russia may not have gone bankrupt, the Bolshevik's may not have risen, and the discovery of oil would have made Russia a rich and powerful country, all led by a Monarchy. With a rich Germany and no brain drain of their best and brightest, Germany may have harnessed the atom first, the first men on the moon would have been German, the League of Nations would be located in Germany. WWII may have started only if Japan invaded German colonies and bombed Pearl Harbor, and only if there were in place defense treaties like NATO and SEATO (but then Germany may have had the bomb as a deterrent).
I think the problem remains with proportional representation. Had the system been winner take all, or first past the post, then the Reichstag would have governed without the crises. One cannot rule with multiple parties. Today Germany still has a remanent of proportional representation.
Is it true that many people in North America are oppressed and live in a socialist police state where Christians are hunted for sport? No. Does that stop those same people living there from believing that and (this is the important part) vote accordingly? Also no. In politics perception is the reality. Voting is increasingly used like leaving a bad Yelp review. Sound familiar?
Thats the neat part: it wouldnt. Weimar was going to fall one way or another. Either to the communists or to the fascists. Falling to fascism turned it into a bastion against communism, leading to the soviets only conquering half of europe. Falling to communism would have have given the soviets a foothold in central europe, leading to its total conquest. The republic simply could not survive being sandwiched from both sides. Especially considering the fact that both the communist party and the nazi party were essentially political cults. One side simply had to win in the end as the period was basically nothing more than a cold civil war.
Hirschfeld had some incredibly regressive attitudes about gay people. Just because he did some interesting research doesn't make him some kind of visionary
As is iterated at the end, the downfall of Weimar Germany is important reminder to stand united in 2024 and vote for democracy over MAGA facism. Harris/Walz 2024 💙
@@danielmacdonald9780 Name one thing that makes misnomers accurate. If the narrator is accurate, should he not mention the alliance between the German National Socialists and the Communist Party of Germany KPD?
Revisionist who do not understand the difference and that you can have a political party of the left that is nationalist. The people’s radio the people’s car these are not conservative things or right things. The right is not about giving everyone a radio or car etc.
@@josephnabomi4600 You're literally that guy from the meme about the tiny little man that thinks "I loathe every person on the street" as he stares at a normal guy. Hopefully you'll grow out if it
@@Terranallias18 You demean me because you are beneath me and always will be. Also, "grow" out of it. I'm likely older than you. Also, you have an anime pfp. Need I say more?
I believe 1930s is too late to truly save Germanys liberal democracy, it would give way to some kind of major change. I think if we wanted to keep Weimar Germanies Liberal Democracy, the presidential election of 1925 is the way to go. The SPD candidate Otto Braun IOTL did not run during the second round of the election, the SPD supporting the Zentrum candidate Marx, which ended with Hindenburg winning. I believe if Otto Braun rescinded the Leadership of Prussia to Zentrum in exchange for support during the election, he could have won. Otto Braun was a known supporter of democracy and someone with a very firm, almost authoritarian leadership. He is the most likely candidate to ensure Germanys liberal democracy survived, IMO.
For me, it could be saved in 1932 if Von Papen would be elected president...He was from the Zentrum Party and if you count the Weimar Coalition and his temporary alliance with Hitler, Von Papen would be elected president easily although Hitler would still be elected as cancellor in 1933. If Von Papen discover that the Nazis burned the Reichstag, he could depose Hitler and Hitler, enfuriated by the treason of Von Papen, would launched a putsch in 1934...Von Papen would defeat the putsch and Hitler and the Nazi leaders would be executed after a trial...then Von Papen would lead Weimar Republic at least 1940, after that Hans Vogel would be elected president until 1948 and after that in 1949 Weimar Republic would change to the actual Germany like OTL...
It's hard to tell if the USSR would've actually invaded the Baltics in this timeline. Since they feared backlash from rest of the world... Up until Hitler came up with the well known Molotov-Ribentrop pact.
Important note about the war in China which you didn't touch on, Germany under the Weimar government had a relationship with the Chinese nationalist government where Germany armed and trained Chinese elite forces in exchange for Chinese raw materials for the German Industry, which continued even under the Nazi regime until the battle of Shanghai's end in Japanese victory, when Germany switched its "alliance" from China to Japan, as the pro-China lobby of industrialists lost their sway over the pro-Japanese lobby.
With Weimar republic surviving, it would more likely maintain its alliance with Japan resulting possibly in a very unorthodox alliance between the Germans and Soviets in their support of China against Japan. With the Germans and British/French being closer as well, this would probably allow for the Germans to continue their aid to China via French Indochina from where a railway ran between Hanoi's nearby port and Chinese Kunming. With a continued reliable aid of German military training as long as Germany isn't attacked, the Chinese nationalists could feasably in my opinion manage to begin breaking the stalemate and push back against the Japanese after 1941, after the assembly of a new miltiary force loyal to Chiang's central government rebuilt from the remnants of the original elite forces destroyed during the battle of Shanghai. Simultaneously however the Germans might just as well restrain from their aid to China after seeing their trained forces get slaughtered in Shanghai from outdated WW1 tactics, creating a drift between Berlin and Chiang Kai Shek
i think another interesting scenario would be that, for some reasons, the Ruhr Crisis escalates to another Franco-German War, which might seem heavily in favor for France, but that would ignore the fact that it Germany would surely be supported by Britain and the USA and that germany still had millions of people ready to fight while the french would still be exhausted from WW1 (Germany feeling attacked would be way more willing to fight)
We need more Alternate History about better timelines.
I know right????
Weimar, and even early Nazi Germany had a military mission to Nationalist China. They sent advisers and trainers (with some military equipment) in return for raw materials like tungsten. It only really stopped due to Japanese pressure on the Nazis. Maybe in this time line we have a 'Dragon legion' instead of a Condor legion?
You also could have the SPD send their own candidate in the form of Otto Braun into the race.
Knew the Weimar Republic was far less of a inevitable failure than the broad internet opinion has it out to be but never knew it was THIS close to being a survivable, functional democracy. Your channel is one of the reasons why I still look forward to people speculating about possibe alternative histories.
Have you ever tought about doing alternative histories of smaller countries like those of eastern europe or south east asia, despite the limited impact of their alternative histories it will still extremely informative and quite interesting as an insight into historical ongoings of these smaller countries and how these changes from their alternate histories might change the decisions of the larger powers that surround them
The Weimar Republic was doomed. The constitution was deeply flawed, and there were too many internal and external pressures. What it collapses into (a collapse in this scenario can be as simple as replacing the constitution with a new one) is the question
I think you kinda misunderstand the situation in China preventing a limited victory in the 2nd Sino-Japanese war, Japan would be very happy with the peace you proposed; China's nationalist government and the US absolutely wouldn't
Too bad. The Chinese couldn't push the Japanese back themselves. So it would be a stalemate for years until they both realized that and settled on accepting the new borders that way. The US wouldn't like it but they're not intervening this time so there's nothing they can do.
@@creatoruser736 Exactly, the US may hate it, but they won't revolve their entire foreign policy around it and attack Japan, they would need a strong justification like pearl harbor to send military action, but since Pearl harbor doesn't happen, they don't have any leg to stand on to send military troops to attack Japan, Congress knows they would be ousted by the American public if they attack Japan just to help China, as far as the American public is concerned, they are attacking a nation completely unprovoked.
"Hitler goes to America to become a science fiction writer" lmfao that broke me
2:35 The Weimar Republic wasn't a parliamentary republic, it was semi-presidential. The strong power of the president was a result of the SPD wanting to hold onto power and having the presidency, which is a reason for why the term was ridiculously long. The SPD of the time was closer to reformist socialism than to modern social democracy.
Was never going to happen. The only mainstream German party that believed in the Weimar republic was the SPD. The SPD was the only party to vote against the Enabling act and by the 1932 election, the Nazis and the Communists had gotten 50% of the vote. The centre party voted for the enabling act. The DNVP led by Alfred Hugenberg allied itself with the NS. If there was no Austrian man then there would have been either a military dictatorship or some right wing authoritarian regime. One problem with Weimar Germany was that there weren't any popular mainstream conservative, nationalist parties that accepted democracy and the republic. There were too many parties that rejected democracy and the republic. Essentially the SPD were the only party that truly defended the republic until its dying days.
I'd love to see more of this timeline. In particular I would like to see what you think would happen with colonial Africa & Asia as well as with the US.
In particular the US would still be powerful but probably wouldn't reach its power it did in our timeline and maybe it might be more open to international cooperation at least with the West. Also a scary part is the fact that without the shock of how far the Nazi's went, could we see even worse discrimination in the US for some time?
It’s certainly possible ofc Matt didn’t touch upon what the US did in this ATL so maybe the New Deal puts a lid on racial discrimination for a few years but with Southern Democrats in power FDR would still be limited just like in our timeline. That being said with France and possibly Germany being more open to Black Americans (not sure if they would’ve been open to Blacks from their own colonies tbh) it does open another avenue for freedom of expression. But we’ll never know.
This video deserves so much more views. Thank you for making these. Great for listening when doing chores.
Just found this channel, and I think this video really gives Weimar Germany a the respect it deserves. Great video!
Awesome! Love your content! Suggestion: What if Margaret maid of norway survived and married Edward II?
Thanks! And I'll have to read up on those two.
@@TheAlternateHistorian np and an early unión of the crowns would have very interesting effects
What a fascinating and interesting video mate. I'm looking forward to checking out more of your channel and greetings from Australia.
I think another alternate history timeline you could look at would be if reconstruction was successful
More important than if Reconstruction was successful if why it was NOT successful. It was imposed to quickly and too harshly to ever be truly successful, and as it was, it was a matter of time before the Radical Republicans had to make a choice whether to hold to the principle or hold onto the White House.
That question is like, what if slavery was abolished sooner? Now I am no defender of slavery, but the time for arguing the morality of it was just before it was adopted in the first place, a time when nobody thought that it MIGHT be morally wrong. By the time anyone did start questioning the ethics of slavery, it was already well-established in the New World. Of course, it would have been much easier to persuade slaveowners to give up the practice by arguing on the ways slavery harmed plantation owners' pecuniary well-being.
We are so back
5:07 One COULD make the argument that Germany COULD feasibly pay war reparations. That is a LONG shot from the claim that war reparations imposed by Britain and France weren't too harsh and utterly vindictive.
That is the weakest part of this alternate history, the rest is AMAZING.
How difficult would it have been to learn to pronounce Weimar?
I enjoyed this video, but cringed every time he said WHY-mar. >shudder< and I'm not even German!
Apparently too difficult. It's hard to take a video seriously when the presenter can't even pronounce the name of what he is talking about.
I think it would be cool to see more videos like this. "What if countries took the best possible past in the interwar period."
17:10 A tiny correction: in 1932, Italy was NOT sympathetic to the NSDAP, seeing the German version of fascism as a bastardized hybrid of the worst aspects of nationalism and socialism, both of which Mussolini viewed as deeply inferior to his Italian Corporatism (Itself a blending of Imperialist Fascism with Syndicalism). Mussolini was well known for despising H1tler, often insulting him to his face in back-country Italian (whilst smiling), the which language the mustachioed madman most-assuredly did NOT understand.
What if the Ottomans were neutral in World War I?
You can always find fascism if you look hard enough. Just in case YOU do not know what fascism is.
Women whoring themselves out for a $1 a night, followed by fortunes being erased Through hyper inflation and the majority of the population viewing democracy has foreign Anglo-Saxon colonization might’ve had a bit of an influence on that.
Lets also mention, that the republic did not just have a lack of responce during the depression, but full on austarity. welfare cuts and the like during massive depression. These "reforms" were supported by the center right, but the SPD also lacked a proper responce, with many of them opposing much the stimulus or Keynesian style spending
Keynesianism wasn't a solid thing until well after the depression started and Hitler was in power. Japan was the only country in the world that I'm familiar with that did economic stimulus before 1932, but it's also understandable why other countries didn't at this point
Love that you used Command and Conquer Red Alert footage
I disagree with your assessments on the USSR and Israel.
The Soviet annexation of the Balitics and Besserabia happened with the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, I doubt the Soviets would invade without that. In real world the allies considered goining to war with the Soviets even while at war with Germany, Also Romania was part of the little Entente and supported by France. Also while Poland had a beef with Lithuania I doubt without any threat from Germany they wouldn't stand up against Soviets annexing all of the Baltics.
As for Israel, even without the Nazis, antisemitism was on the rise in Europe. Also though there's less motivations to leave Europe on one hand, there are far more Jews, the Holocaust destroyed 2/3 of European Jews, even if there less reasons to migrate, there's larger pool of people for potential migrants. Also with a slower migration of Jews, there would be less tension in the Mandate of Palestine, combined with a Britain not destroyed by WWII, they may keep the mandate longer. All these combined may mean Israel would have enough people to be established, either in borders similar to real world or smaller borders.
There's also the fact that the Soviet Jews would not have been killed in the Holocaust either, and unlike European Jews, they would definitely leave once the USSR collapses. So Israel may ultimately end up with more Jews then our world.
An equivalent of a Ribbentrop-Molotov pact would still be possible. It is not like Germans, the painter in charge or not, had much love for Poland, while the French and the British could abandon the Baltics or even Poland or Romania to an extent. They could develop a mutual understanding with the Russians that that only the lands East of the Curzon line are protected. It could be this timeline's version of the Appeasement. I think you are right about Israel. People forget that a number of European countries were only like 5 steps behind the Germans in the treatment of their respective Jewish minorities. A number of countries would have likely "encouraged" Jewish emigration.
"Babe wake up!! , alternate historian just uploaded"
You know what a great map for you to check out for your next video is the map from Shadowrun the RPG. A lot of lore and pretty well done.
Brüning's austerity policy was the problem. During the Great Depression he tried to save money to get out of the crisis. This causes unemployment and only makes the crisis worse. This indirectly brought the Nazis to power. By the way, Germany is currently pursuing austerity policies again with similar but not quite as serious consequences
What If Zealandia still existed today
I have an old video about that actually: ruclips.net/video/hO2Z7o82WG8/видео.html.
@@TheAlternateHistorianThanks for letting me know
@@TheAlternateHistorianever wanted to do an updated version?
we could have had so many more Berlin Comedian Harmonist bangers in this timeline
also happy pride (or as people in your timeline call it, june)
I think the Weimar Republic could have been saved as late as April 1932. After Hindenburg won the presidency, and replaced Brüning with Von Papen, the Weimar Republic was effectively over. As others have mentions, I think there were two candidates who could have ran against Hindenburg and saved the Weimar Republic, Otto Braun and Hugo Eckener. Those two candidates were opposed to the NZ’s, and the other parties that wanted to end the Republic.
Continued: I also think the Weimar Republic could have been saved in March 1930, if the SPD and the DVP came to terms on the issue of unemployment assistance. Their disagreement of unemployment assistance, resulted in the collapse of the SPD-DDP-Z-BVP-DVP coalition, which caused the beginning of governments appointed by President Hindenburg. If that coalition survived March 1930, it could give the SPD more time to create a New Deal-style plan to reduce the worst effects of the Great Depression. With an economic plan in place, the fringe parties would not rise to as much of the vote as in OTL, maybe the top fringe party getting 15-20% of the vote instead of 33-37% of the vote.
In La Parte de L'Autre, French author Éric-Emmanuel Schmitt takes Hitler's rejection by the Viennese art school as a point of divergence. It's been over ten years since I read it, but I remember a shorter war breaking out in which Germany takes back some territory from Poland. Not sure if the Weimar republic survives though.
I have a suggestion is adventure time historical how did the great mushroom war started
We do also need to consider if Weimar Germany would gain any territory. Germany would most likely annex Austria, Danzig, Memel, and maybe even the Sudentland. Here are those countries and territories and how likely they were to be annexed.
Austria.
Austria is the most likely country to become a part of Germany. Not only were both of them German speaking nations but also a majority of Austrians supported unifying with Germany. Without the rise of the Austrian Painter and his Allie’s many more Austrians would continue to attempt to unify with Germany. Therefore it is very likely that Austria would unify with Germany. While the Entente officially forbid Germany from joining Austria it is likely that like in our timeline Britain and France would be unwilling to go to war again and would therefore most likely allow the unification. Also with no ww2 Austria would remain a part of Germany to the present day.
Danzig.
Like Austria Danzig was a majority German speaking country. Unlike Austria however Danzig was formerly a part of Germany before they became independent following the end of ww1. I could see Germany negotiating a deal with Poland and other countries in which Germany would regain Danzig in return for bettering relations with Poland. Like with Austria with no ww2 Danzig would remain a part of Germany to the present day.
Memel territory. Like Danzig Memel was formerly a part of Germany before it was annexed by Lithuania after the end of ww1. Germany and Lithuania had relatively good relations before 1933 when he who shall not be named came to power and Without his rise to power I could see Germany negotiating a deal with Lithuania in which it would regain the Memel territory. Like with Austria and Danzig with no ww2 the Memel territory would remain a part of Germany to the present day.
Sudentland. This is one of the least likely options as Czechoslovakia in our timeline was unwilling to cede the territory to Germany. However it could still happen. Let’s say that Britain and France still remained concerned about the potential for Germany starting another war thus resulting in them meeting with German representatives where they would then attempt to make a agreement with each other that would prevent any further war just like what happened with the Munich Conference in our timeline. Then let’s say that like in our timeline they agree to cede the Sudentland to Germany in return for Germany not expanding any further in Europe. After that it is likely that like in our timeline Czechoslovakia would let Germany annex the Sudentland in a attempt to remain independent and prevent a further war. Like with Austria, Danzig, and Memel with no ww2 the Sudentland would remain a part of Germany to the present day.
Germany would not annex any of their futher former territory from France, Poland, and Belgium as they would almost certainly refuse to give them back to Germany. Germanys Jewish population would also grow from 500.000 to between 750.000 and 800.000 with over 200.000 Jewish people living in Austria, between 23.000 and 24.000 Jewish people living in the Sudentland, 10.000 Jewish people living in Danzig, and 6.000 Jewish people living in the Memel territory. Therefore Germany would have one of the largest Jewish populations other than places such as the United States and Poland.
What if Molotov- Ribbentrop pact was never signed
I find it kinda crazy that in this timeline hitler is more of a footnote. Even though in ours's he's responsible for the deaths of 10s of millions
What an enjoyable video! Also, without a second European war in the 20th century, the British Empire would have survived, and America would have less political, economic and military power.
Do a video on the business plot
The fatal wound was inflicted in the treaty of Versieas. The Reichswhear limited to 100,000 men was too small to deal with the post war chaos. This led to the Freicorps, private military being in the forefront of fighting the left wing militias. They might have been able to do it with 250,000 troops total tanks, planes. War might have still come to Europe. Imagine a Soviet invasion of Poland and German tanks racing to meet the threat east of Warsaw.
Why is Italy not highlighted as part of the European Union? Is it because them being fascist makes them a pariah in this timeline so they wouldn't be included?
Do you have a community or a discord server? There's a lot of weird people in the alt history community so its hard to find good communities.
Let's take it a step further and look at the timeline without the assassination of the Archduke Ferdinand. WWI was the result of family connections as much as political intrigue. The assassination led to WWI, which led to the bankruptcy of Germany and the rise of the Nazi party, the fall of the Ottoman Empire, the Bolshevik Revolution, the German loss of colonies in Africa and Asia, the European portion of WWII (the Japanese war in China would continue regardless of what was happening in Europe), the creation of Israel, and the immigration of Europe's best and brightest to England and the US. If Germany had not gone bankrupt, then the possible prosperity may have kept the Nazi party on the sidelines. The north Africa and middle east countries created by Winston Churchill's father would not exist and would instead continue to be a part of the Ottoman Empire (oil being discovered would have created an immensely rich and powerful Empire for the Caliphate). Russia may not have gone bankrupt, the Bolshevik's may not have risen, and the discovery of oil would have made Russia a rich and powerful country, all led by a Monarchy. With a rich Germany and no brain drain of their best and brightest, Germany may have harnessed the atom first, the first men on the moon would have been German, the League of Nations would be located in Germany. WWII may have started only if Japan invaded German colonies and bombed Pearl Harbor, and only if there were in place defense treaties like NATO and SEATO (but then Germany may have had the bomb as a deterrent).
19:44 yeah mate you lost me with this.
I think the problem remains with proportional representation. Had the system been winner take all, or first past the post, then the Reichstag would have governed without the crises. One cannot rule with multiple parties. Today Germany still has a remanent of proportional representation.
Is it true that many people in North America are oppressed and live in a socialist police state where Christians are hunted for sport? No. Does that stop those same people living there from believing that and (this is the important part) vote accordingly? Also no. In politics perception is the reality. Voting is increasingly used like leaving a bad Yelp review. Sound familiar?
VY-MAR
What if the grand coalition never collapsed and they implemented the WTB plan?
Thats the neat part: it wouldnt.
Weimar was going to fall one way or another. Either to the communists or to the fascists. Falling to fascism turned it into a bastion against communism, leading to the soviets only conquering half of europe. Falling to communism would have have given the soviets a foothold in central europe, leading to its total conquest.
The republic simply could not survive being sandwiched from both sides. Especially considering the fact that both the communist party and the nazi party were essentially political cults.
One side simply had to win in the end as the period was basically nothing more than a cold civil war.
7:16
And certain corners of Reddit will still claim that social democracy is the 'left wing of fascism'
What if the 2nd Reich remained?
Hirschfeld had some incredibly regressive attitudes about gay people. Just because he did some interesting research doesn't make him some kind of visionary
As is iterated at the end, the downfall of Weimar Germany is important reminder to stand united in 2024 and vote for democracy over MAGA facism. Harris/Walz 2024 💙
The moral of the story is VOTE.
You might as well be on the history channel
Hello
It is important to remember that Fascism is not the real evil here. The real evil is Collectivism. Without Collectivism, Fascism truly cannot occur.
The Eldorado Riots of 1939...has such a lovely resonance to my old queer ear!
E
What kind of historian refers to national socialists as far-right and fascist? Were the Bolsheviks also far-right and fascist too? How about Mao?
The accurate kind lol
@@danielmacdonald9780 Name one thing that makes misnomers accurate. If the narrator is accurate, should he not mention the alliance between the German National Socialists and the Communist Party of Germany KPD?
Mate, he did mention it. Just watch the Video instead of getting offended
Revisionist who do not understand the difference and that you can have a political party of the left that is nationalist. The people’s radio the people’s car these are not conservative things or right things. The right is not about giving everyone a radio or car etc.
Lose some weight, gain some muscle, and I might take your opinions serious
3:09 The nose the ear level yep every single time.
How the hell do you even function in the real world?
😂
@@Terranallias18 Better then everyone else does
@@josephnabomi4600 You're literally that guy from the meme about the tiny little man that thinks "I loathe every person on the street" as he stares at a normal guy. Hopefully you'll grow out if it
@@Terranallias18 You demean me because you are beneath me and always will be. Also, "grow" out of it. I'm likely older than you. Also, you have an anime pfp. Need I say more?