AirVenture 2024: Continental CD-300 for Cessna Stationairs
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- At AirVenture 2024, Continental announced it plans to certify the CD-300 Jet-A-burning turbocharged piston engine for retrofit in existing select Cessna 206 Stationair models. Aviation Consumer magazine Editor Larry Anglisano spent some time at the Continental tent with James Foster for a walk around tour of the engine.
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Continental spent so much time on this thing instead of preventing snap rings from coming off their counter weights and cylinders from cracking constantly.
Actually this does solve that problem. A water cooled diesel isn't going to crack cylinders. Time to get rid of lead burning air cooled engines.
It is Mercedes OM 642 Engine. Little bit modified, like dual turbo , different intake, but , it is still OM642. Mercedes , put it on sprinter, and other models. Really good engine, if work without EGR, and others eco systems....
It's a six figure engine with a TBR with an increase of around 150 lbs.
150lbs for the same power. So a performance downgrade. Nice.
TBR yes.
OEM only so quote is hard to get.
150lbs ?
Cd-300 is 584lbs with gear box.
Io-550-a is 455.9lbs (the lightest)
Tsio-550-g is 554lbs
Sure jet-a/diesel is heavier than avgas but it consume less.
Would be a better comparison if they have a fadec 300hp avgas but they don't.
The real questions here is how can someone get one and prices both purchase and TBR?
@@bigiron4018 Depends. The CD300 can put out its full 300hp up to 8000ft, where the IO540AC can only deliver 230hp or so. On the other hand, MCP is less at 270hp, but from up 4000ft upwards, that is still more than the IO540AC can do at WOT. That should help with the extra weight, I guess.
I think the main selling point will be operating on Jet rather than 100LL. Still pretty hard sell at that price point, but I bet they're still going to deliver before Deltahawk does.
FINALLY! A modern aircraft engine. This thing will change aircraft engines forever.
Well, Rotax is modern, and the Austros are modern, and have been available for a long time.
@@UncleKennysPlace Rotax does not make high HP engines that are suitable for conventional certified aircraft.
Austro engine is very cool, but very expensive and again can't handle high HP.
What Continental has built here is a high performance V6 but for an airplane. This engine will be smoother, quieter, easier to start hot, have a much more linear power band, more torque and above all else, it it very very fuel efficient/reliable.
Doubtful, it's already flying in the DA50 and it doesn't really offer any advantages over legacy aircraft engines.
@@PistonAvatarGuy no advantages over legacy aircraft engines? Are you living behind a rock? To quote the comment above you: „This engine will be smoother, quieter, easier to start hot, have a much more linear power band, more torque and above all else, it it very very fuel efficient/reliable.“ Add to that avgas availability/price problems, single lever engine control and more. Your comment can only make sense in a very narrow bubble in the USA, where fuel is cheap and you fly an SR22 turbo, or if you’re trolling.
@@spitfireinvasion A lot of those advantages are only because of the FADEC system on the diesel, but the legacy engines are available with FADEC. A linear power band is irrelevant when it comes to aircraft engines. Torque literally means nothing in an aircraft application, especially one with a PSRU.
The SR22T gets better mpg at a higher speed, the same is true of several other legacy aircraft (I believe that the Bonanza is one). There's even a pressurized model that flies higher, much, MUCH faster and is very close to being as fuel efficient with regard to mpg. I'd have to go back through a bunch of old posts to find the specific models, but I'm sure that you can find them if you look.
The problem with the aircraft community is that they go by gph, not mpg, the diesel just doesn't do that well with regard to mpg ratings, because it's overall performance is so poor.
What is the difference in weight compared to avgas alternatives?
More fuel availability at airports and A1 is cheaper
Love the cabin heating comments. We never really worried about CO. We never had any real heat in a 206/207 😂
We lived in a mild state of hypothermia scratching out an existence in pursuit of those coveted hours.
I wish them luck, but all the diesel engines in the last 20 years have had a horrible track record of long term support, serviceability, and reliability
Only from one company and they’re gone.
@@JustaPilot1 the c-206 and c-182 have been on the brink of of going all diesel several times and it never makes it accross the finish line for whatever reason.
That's resultant from all the emissions stuff that this doesn't have, no?
@@JustaPilot1eh, Austro is OK but have plenty of issues too and support is “Meh”. A fair amount of ADs for what they are too.
@@tmpendergrass Yup. This may be the time with this engine.
Thanks for sharing, but one thing I noticed is there are multiple redundancies in the fuel system, 2 alternators, but it only has a single serpentine belt to run the water pump and alternators. So if that belt fails how long before the engine overheats and you run out of power? Or is there something I am missing?
Just as well they have three-bladed propellers available too so if one blade falls off you still have two left!
The Serpantine Belt has been doing great on cars the last 30 years or more, I change mine every 2-3 years, NEVER had any issues!
You've still got a battery to get you on the ground
Super-wide belt, and with a diesel, pulling back the throttle will help cool it (as it's not a "throttle", just a fuel controller, so you get full airflow always.) So will turning on the cabin heater. Find an airport, pull the throttle, use power only when needed, should be a non-event.
And I wouldn't be surprised if they designed to have some amount of thermo-siphon.
Agree, I thought the same. Belts are really reliable, but they don't last forever. The consequences of one failing is very high.
This is where we are going to be considering that 100LL is under attack and no viable, engine friendly lead free AvGas is available. The fuels are not the problem, it’s 1940’s engine tech that was designed for leaded gasoline which is the issue.
GAMI and Swift both have viable alternatives.
@@PistonAvatarGuySwift has reportedly had some issues with their 94UL, but no problems with G100UL.
@@galactictomato1434 Supposedly, but they were all isolated to one flight school, which makes me think that there was something else going on there.
@@PistonAvatarGuy Fair enough, you could be right.
Wish we could get a modern engine in the Cirrus.
But it's still hard to compete with Continental's own TSIO 550.
I’ll believe that engine in a certified aircraft when I see it fly with a standard airworthiness certificate.
Will wait for the 300 HP DELTAHAWK ENGINE
I've got a feeling the Deltahawk is going to be a thirsty engine.
For comparison: Part Number: TSI0550K2BN Price: $121,760.00
In 1960 one could buy a Cessna 172, engine and all for $10, 000
Now $120,000 for just an engine.
Thank you inflation and liability lawyers.
I was goi g with 150 for the diesel, but I bet it’s closer to $175.
Great video...👍
Looks like the same belt drives both alternators?
Fuel burn for Hp seems great. However, it does appear to be very heavy for a 300 and agree with others on the likely $100,000 price. Then again, none seems to object to $100k for Garmin avionics.
Look up the price of the top HP turbo engines from Conti and Lycoming. And bear in mind those are stone-simple engines with little in the way of electronics, and are air cooled.
Cost?
Hopefully, under $380K.
This is one of the automotive derived ex Thielert engines. Yes they did have issues 20 years ago but they habe matured in the meantime. Mass is an issue but flying them is fantastic.
What requirements will come with the STC? Guessing there are specific avionic requirements.
This lump will be DEEP into the six figures and is twenty years too late.
Better late than never.
gale banks needs to build an engine for aircraft.
Wow... looks pretty simple. Love the V block. Just needs two more cylinders.
It's heavy enough as it is...
@@galactictomato1434 True, it's 150 lbs more then a 540.
Great to see all of this GA high dollar stuff at a show about experimental aircraft?
210 compatible?
Wonder if a Deutch-type Air Cooled Diesel could be modified for airframe power plants?
I wish they'd make one in 180 - 200 hp version.
How much?
I live in Finland and we are paying $13.50 a gallon for Avgas. Jet-A is $5.25 a gallon. Overhauling an engine is about 35% cheaper than buying a new engine so the avgas engines have that over the diesel. The CD-300 burns about 30% less fuel (IO-550) if my math is correct. Both engines have the same 2000 hour expected life. So depending on how cheap you can get your fuel the CD-300 might make sense. Interesting side note. 270 continuous ponies in the CD-300 is being produced at 3700 rpm as opposed to 2700 rpm in the IO-550. Extra engine wear or not someone else probably can comment better than me. I suppose it doesn’t matter if the engine gets to TBR. I guess part of that extra weight is the reduction gearbox but it’s partly being offset by increased endurance. Yes diesel is a bit heavier than avgas 0.74 to 0.82.
I love the concept of a powerful diesel aero engine, but this one seems really complex. I prefer DeltaHawk’s far simpler design. DeltaHawk already said they’re going to add 2 cylinders to their current product in a year or two, so it should make 300+ horsepower. It’ll be interesting to see if either engine gains traction in the market.
What diesel engine from the automotive world is powering this?
Mercedes
Mercedes OM642
I want to get into flying but it’s just so weird to me that pretty much every GA plane I see in the sky is still using 1950s tech. 😂 piper and diamond seem to be ahead of the curve with their diesel models.
Will see if it becomes a reality.
I hope to see some coverage of the Adept Airmotive engines.
Sounds very expensive, like many Continentals, when it goes wrong.
Probably should’ve let Volkswagen show you how to build a v6 diesel
You will never, never, never trust a lineman to fill a 206 with the correct fuel type.
Wonder if u could also sell to marine ppl and take out alot of the cost by not being certified and removing the redundancy. 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
marine people want pure torque at low rpm, pretty much the opposite of aviation's high rpm. you really don't want your diesel over 2,000rpm in your boat, they prefer 1200-1600 tops.
Put it on my Cherokee Six!
Finally... the 19th Century has ended.
I’m doubting it’ll fit in a 206 given the tunnel takes up so much room. That monstrosity is tall!
I hope I’m wrong and it works well.
Hope it doesn’t have a CP4 pump on it
Interesting but I'm sure it costs 10 times more than the car engine just because...
And it only weighs 700 lbs……
…looks pretty heavy…
STC for T182T would pique my interest...........
DeltaHawk said their 300hp diesel will be shown next year. All mechanical no electronics, lighter engine with a lower cost . Honestly my IO-540 allready cruises very well at 12-14 gallons per hours so I do not see a fuel savings in the Continental.
I like it, but the 100LL burning engines have already surpassed 300hp several years ago in aircraft like the 206
Looks like a Benz engine to me .
Ya, Ya, it’s a Mercedes CD 300 diesel! These guys have invented NOTHING!
This engine is already twenty years old in automotive industry, and you guys in the comments are saying you don't like the modern witchcraft. No wonder hybrid electric motor aircraft aren't here already. Luddites 😂
There's no gain to be had from hybrid technologies in aircraft, unless you're talking about a turbo-compound engine which makes use of an MGU-H. No one would be able to afford such a thing for a light aircraft, though. The engine being shown here is already ridiculously expensive.
@@PistonAvatarGuy That's not true if you're using an electric motor solely to spin the propeller. High torque from zero revs, high efficiency, and higher reliability. You use a motor to charge a smallish battery. MGU H wouldn't work because cars don't decelerate very often and wouldn't you use the big spinny thing on the front rather than the spinny thing on a tiny turbo?
@@planespeaking Obvious troll is obvious.
@@PistonAvatarGuy troll? You're faintly ridiculous
Ask Ram how water cooled worked out for them….
Ask Roll-Royce how liquid cooling worked out for them.
This is an anti-US engine. Wait for all the comments. Displacement not big enough, has electronics, ohc, liquid cooled, reduction box, common rail, multivalve, no lead.
It’s not anti-US at all, it’s just a modern engine that aims to put the GA sector in the US into the 21st century.
Make a V8 or go home.
stone age technology ,gear box certain failure
Rotax is lower Hp but has millions of trouble free hours on the 9xx series. Let’s get some experience with this gearbox solution before we condemn it.
Don’t all Turbines have a gearbox?
Mercedes OM642... yikes!
No EGR or oil cooler on top, or swirl flaps and plastic intake junk. It's all metal and billet pumps etc. All of the om642 bits that went wrong aren't there anymore.
I’m rocking 2 of these, sprinter and ML. Each one is at almost 250,000 miles and they’ve been phenomenal.
Think of all the problems that powerplant could have, especially during the first 10 years. There is something to be said for the old style engines. Where could get it fixed in most of the world?
Anywhere you can get a Continental fixed. Good thing old engines never have mechanical problems. If you haven't noticed modern design engines are actually more reliable and economical than the old engines. It is your choice to stay with the old.
@@zorbakaput8537 Well I've been an A&P for a while and know nothing about trouble shooting a modern engine. We sometimes have trouble figuring out problems with old engines. I can not begin to imagine how "any place" that fixes Continental engines could figure out a modern high tec engine, it would be like apples and oranges. How many of us can still work on our cars? It takes fancy equipment and very few aircraft repair shops have anything like that.
@@michaelsamson3276 Put the Mercedes dealership shop on speed-dial
It's unfortunate that they continue to put lipstick on these pigs, GA aircraft need light, powerful and fuel efficient engines, and this isn't it. The MYT engine could provide 300 HP and Jet A in a form factor weighing about 25 pounds or 10 kilograms.