Hydraulic forging press, Punching an eye under the 24 ton press.
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2017
- I have had several people ask about my punch setup for the hydraulic press. This punch is not everything I would like it to be but I will share both its good points and its bad. In a future video I will make a new punch holder that should be an improvement. If you have a punch system you like feel free to share a link in the comments.
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hi john thanks for taking the time to produce another good video , very informative your doing a great job
Thanks John, love that press!
Thank you so much John for another first rate video!
I’ve anticipated this one and find it most helpful.
Kind regards
Always a great video from john Switzer.
Greay video. Thanks for sharing. Im building a hydraulic press out of a log splitter right now, so this helped out a lot.
You're my favourite blacksmith instructional on RUclips, thanks for sharing .
Like your work you take time
I would agree with you that the Brian Brazeal punch with its slight sharpening. That would also allow you to make a prick to more quickly center it. A secondary benefit would be that less material is removed from the billet. I have made all my punches with a slight point or edge (slot punch) and it makes a huge difference. Love the press. That's my next big tool project.
Thank you ,I've made improvements to mine
A lot of CNC machines use a tapered tool socket the get perfect alignment. You might water to consider that for the hydraulic press. Good video.
Your video's are great thanks. For finding the center to punch try setting up a jig just to set the steel against. Looks like you only need a rear shoulder and two short ones front and rear on one side. Tack that to a half inch plate should help with a quick center. Just a thought.
Thanks John. Its really nice to see im not alone as i have had just about all the same issues you have had with the press. I started with the flat punch made of h-13 and was having the same rounding off problems you have been and since i went to the brazeal style i have not had any issues and ive punched at least 50 holes and its still sharp. I did make the bevels a little steeper then the normal style, which i think is important. Give it a try i bet you'll like it. Ill have to send a video of my set up and see what you think. Thanks again for taking the time.
John
You’re the man!
Thank you so much for this wonderful lesson/video!
I’ve been waiting and watching for this.
Kind regards
Reg Tomerlin
I love that machine John!!
It can be really handle
In the area where the set screw intersects the shaft or shank put a recessed flat. Look at endmill shanks the call this a Weldon flat on a endmill. That way the set screw has a chamfer on the end that goes into the notch in the shank that prevents pullout.
I had wondered about that. Does that increase the odds of bending the tip of the set screw, 1/2" is what I was thinking, so that it can't be loosened?
Not if you use a Heat treated set screw. Most commercial steel socket setscrews are hardened. A 1" endmill holder on a machine tool uses a 3/4" set screw. Just as a reference. I would use at least a 5/8-11. That would take a 5/16" allen wrench. A 3/4-10 takes a 3/8" allen wrench even better to get it tight.
John the secret to red hardness is 5 to 10% cobalt in the alloy. Might I suggest using M42 molybdenum high speed steel which contains 8% cobalt.
Certainly do appreciate your inventive ideas and the content of your videos. One thing you may want to think about if it isn't too large for your setup is to use receiver tubs from Harbor Freight as the dye holder. They are for trailer hitches. Then standard 2X2 square tubing of any wall thickness will fit into the receivers. You will not have the need for set screws...always a headache. 18 inch tubes from HF cost about $15 and make excellent connections for all sorts of alignment needs.
Interesting Idea, it may prove useful at some point, thanks
Boy do we have a lot to talk about! I too have developed tooling similar to yours. My nice fancy adjustable punch and stripper did the same as yours. I have made a plate with removable tools that takes advantage of the hexagon on a Vulcan jackhammer bit. Nice setup making tools on the lathe. But I have found dedicated welded plates work better for me. I also use beeswax and graphite as a punch lube. Keep it warm in crockpot. So, I've gone to eye alignment and simple tooling and am much happier. Thank You!
I don't suppose you have a video? I would love to see what you're using.
Have you thought about a steel wedge going through the tube and punch instead of a set screw would be stronger and faster
Just catching up on your videos and I would agree, the Brian Brazeal style may make cleaner and faster punches for you. I've seen a similar setup in other videos that seem to show the press moving faster, even under load, because the punch has some sharp edges to it. really enjoying the instructional aspect to your videos, definitely a current favorite to watch and learn from.
Thank you. My press was intentionally built to run slower than most others. Partially for added control. But mostly because it allows a much smaller motor running on a small electrical circuit. Still has plenty of squish, but never very fast.
Just a thought on securing the plates; you could possibly make the plates stick the front by 1/16 - 1/8 of an inch. weld some slotted tabs on the front of the ram and the base. You could then use wedges to lock the punches and dies and possibly minimize the slop. I also noticed the right slide on the ram seems to have spread open. I enjoy your videos and learn something new almost every time. Keep up the good work and wishing you continue to heel quickly from your hand injury. Happy Holidays
Good ideas
I am a new smith yet to heat the first metal and I’ve decided to use a gas forge. I was wondering if you could do a video on building a burner. I know there are 1000 vids on it but I like your vids and are very knowledgeable. Thank you
Thanks, But I'm not the most knowledgeable person on burners. I Have made a few very simple ones, but never a top of the line efficient burner. There are wuite a few available for sale out there that are way better than any I have made. But I will think on it, since the low tech burners are fairly easy to make yourself.
What you could do, if you have a stick welder, is get some hardfacing electrodes and try building up a layer of hard steel at the punch tip. I don't know how well it will handle the heat, but it could be an idea for you to look into.
other option for your new tool mount - is to use a simple split pin or similar to hold it in place, just a lose fit - all you have to do is stop it falling out. Then as you apply pressure slowly, the die would move and seat into the socket firmly, and there would be no load on the pin?
Its an interesting idea
For hot pressing you might consider high speed steel. It has a high red hardness. It will not tolerate welding so socket type mount will be necessary. A local machine shop may have worn out drills or end mills in a size you can use. Stick to parallel side punches and taper the hole in later steps. It can be brittle so a plexiglass shield would be prudent.
That may be an option. But I believe H13 and S7 both have better hot work characteristics.
Black Bear Forge If your press time was a little quicker perhaps but the heat transfer for the time in contact has to be huge. Larger presses may be able to punch that hole at lower material temperatures making tool selection easier. In your current set up the job is in the extreme conditions range for any tool. Tough puzzle you have there.
M42. Even better
Think about m42. That’s a super hi speed steel. Check it out in the heat treaters guide app
Where did you buy the small LED lights?.Great Videos as Always.
Those are just reading lights from the home center.
Just an idea but could you put a top qaulity tool steel on just the end of the drift? I understand the press is super powerful just curious if you point it and use a high qaulity tool steel kinda the idea of a wrought iron hammer with tool steel faces just a idea if its a bad one let me know thankyou for your video's takecare.
For the hydraulic press punches I am using H13 which is top quality steel. For my drifts I prefer S7 which is also top quality. a drift sees so much abuse that I would prefer solid steel than a mild steel body with tool steel end. That way the whole drift is good material.
Can't you blow a hole through a thicker die plate ,slip your 3/8 x 1" i.d. sleeve through , weld , and load a flanged punch from the top that is recessed flush to the plate , eliminating the need for a set screw?
That is an interesting idea, I may have to look into it when I finally have time to make new punches.
Is that drill press a “Canadian”?
You had mentioned that you wear a full face shield when you use your hydraulic press. Wondering why? I’m about to buy a press.
The risk of a high pressure hydraulic leak. Although several years later, I don't worry about it as much anymore. But it would still be the ideal safety practice
@@BlackBearForge 👍🙏
i want to ask?why i cannot punch eye under 24 ton press(punch was half punch)(the thick of material is 50mm).are because the heat is not enough(i using air force gas burner with 1burner).
The constant contact of the punch dies cools material off very fast. I have not had the best success punching under the press either. Which is sad, because its why I really wanted a press.
but in daniel steel youtube.he can punch hammer eyes using 20 ton press. how much time u reach temperature forging in your steel??
Why did you put the C frame on top of the bottom die?
it traps the work piece so that the punch can be pulled out
@@BlackBearForge Oh okay, makes sense! Thanks for the response!
I am afraid your notion of a set screw may give you grief. Hard to describe but the hex and ring on jackhammer bit both indexes and secures the tool. Still I am beginning to feel dedicated plates may be best.
I do have concerns about the set screw as well. But if it doesn't work for the punches it would work for lots of other tools that don't get stuck. It works well in the fly press, but that doesn't stick the punch in the work as solidly as the hydraulic press either.
Sorry but the only videos I have posted are technical video micrographs. I am too gray headed to savvy how to send a private message. Would love to compare successes and failures!