I think English rugby needs promotion/relegation back. That would incentivise the Championship teams, spreading the game to other areas. It would also draw in fans at the end of the season, when the weak teams currently have little to play for except pride. Relegation battles can really fill stadiums. Also, players from championship teams would get their chance to show their skills against better opponents, meaning more quality players for England's national team over time. It would be brutal financially for teams that are relegated, but those teams have been proven to be financially unviable anyway. Just look at Exeter, they were promoted a decade ago and have since won the Prem twice and a European cup as well, and that was with players that were with them since the championship days. The money they have made has been reinvested in their stadium and their squads.
We 100% need it back. However, there are currently 0 teams eligible for promotion. Until Ealing and other teams can meet the requirements or the requirements change, promotion can't really happen.
@@jameslefley seems like the requirements are a bit of a vicious circle. It's mad to expect championship teams to build bigger stadiums and attract more fans when they aren't even having their games televised, and don't get any real investment or TV money. There are Prem clubs that on average don't attract nearly as many fans as the stadium requirements. Sale only get an average of 4k fans, and they are very competitive. The requirements are 10k capacity.
Agreed - in modern sports you have to consider the entertainment factor beyond pitch performance, audiences need context and stories - relegation brings that.
@@catch22rugby it's a shame that clubs like ealing cant be promoted when there pitch/"stadium" has better hospitality than the rec. I have extreme amounts of love for rugby and to see the way its going is sad! Im doing my dissertation for uni on the business side of rugby and the ability to adapt the sport for a better future so its "interesting" timing for this to happen but my heart goes out to Worcester and the staff, team and fans the make sixways sixways!
Great video again. It has been emotional watching Worcester the last couple of weeks; their performance against Newcastle was nothing short of exceptional!
Can we have more of these rugby story videos please? They’re fantastic. I’m a new subscriber to your channel but these really stood above the others, even though they’re very good too
I think David flatman was right to say that rugby players can't expect to be payed huge salaries. It's also a joke that rugby isn't televised. How are they meant to get big TV money when there's no TV. For half of last season there wasn't even a bargain basement highlights reel on terrestrial telly.
Rugby as a package needs to be marketing and strategised better. I look at F1 with promise though... if they can turn that "old man's sport" around to be the largest growing sport online then surely the same can be done for rugby!
Loss of revenue streams was due to Covid restrictions, not Covid. People were turning up to rugby matches until restrictions were brought in, and they would have kept turning up.
Thanks Dale - might have slightly slipped up on the terminology there - by saying COVID, the intention was to include all the wider impacts (like restrictions and large crowd anxieties etc) within the wording, but this didn't quite land. Appreciate the feedback pal 👍
@@catch22rugby Cheers. Wasn't meant as an observation about your video wording in particular actually. Just a general observation on my part about the trend in the narrative.
It is important to say that this £25m debt is largely a tax liability which by definition is a line that just sits on the balance sheet it’s not a payable amount. The total debt actually owed as calculated by the administrators is around £6m m
Welcome buddy. Please go and support your local MLR team, we in Europe are all hoping that the MLR is a success as we would love to play against a truly competitive US team.
@@MbisonBalrog Americans are smart, they will teach themselves once they are hooked on the excitement and physicality of it. Americans already love Football, and that's a much slower game with fewer brutal contacts and flowing moves.
@@joeyfischler1031 If by "Football" you mean "American football," you have obviously never watched the game. I'd advise you to avoid making comments on things you know absolutely nothing about.
Interesting thought! While many people would love to see that happen, there is a minimum set of requirements that clubs need to meet in order to go into the pro-leagues. Things like stadium size, number of qualified staff, licences etc. At present Pirates don't meet those requirements and they currently can't afford to upgrade everything 😔 it's the same reason Ealing Trailfinders (the RFU Championship winners) weren't allowed promotion into the Premiership. Hopefully one day for the Cornish Pirates though!
Getting rid of two of the four teams from the homeland of rugby is a disgrace. At least Rugby will come home when Northampton bring us the premiership.
Without relegation it was a good opportunity to maybe let the wage bill drop naturally. Its a well supported club but I wonder if they gambled in order to bring in a couple more thousand fans to home games
So Major League Rugby in the USA introduced a 1-minute "water break" that is used for commercials, and everyone in the UK blasted them for it saying they need to find other ways to make money... Yet... verbatim "Rugby isn't profitable."
As an American, I've been very skeptical about MLR not having a Pro-Rel system, commercial breaks, etc. My skepticism is fading but my disillusion about sport in general is growing. It's entertainment when it's professional and entertainment can NEVER be subject to what Pro-Rel does: create drama. Entertainment only is profitable when it is consistent, and I think sadly this is where rugby globally has to go. HOW it is done is up for debate, however.
Let’s talk about what is really happening. Since rugby turned professional, some of us have been predicting the eventual collapse of the sport. It’s starting to happen. The foundation of rugby is crumbling, as grassroots youth rugby programs are struggling to attract players, coaches, officials, administrators, supporters and sponsors. Nanny doctors want an end to contact, fundamentally threatening the game. Too many kids stop playing at age 18. At the professional level, the players are bigger, faster, and fitter so collisions are more powerful. Head shots and high tackles were allowed for too long, and now the lawyers and insurance adjusters are demanding they stop. So there has been an explosion in yellow and red cards as coaches and some players resist the new reality. The pandemic took bums out of seats, and pro clubs lost millions. Prices went up to cover costs, so fans are staying away in droves. Salaries were out of control for years. PPV TV keep fans at home, and stadiums are often empty. Greed and stupidity created the perfect storm. Now pro clubs are starting to fail. Internationals are much more frequent, and top players burn out more quickly. The season is now 12 months long. Nobody gets a break anymore. The old boys in charge will react slowly and ineffectively. We are seeing results that were far too predictable. What next?
Very hard to argue against all of that. Much of this is very fixable - from player pathways and development all the way though to audience engagement... but with resistance coming from the powers above, it's proving next to impossible for outsiders to come in and make the necessary changes. But if Liberty Media could do it with Formula 1 then whose to say someone else can't do it with rugby. Remaining hopeful but it's hard to ignore everything you've pointed out!
@@catch22rugby, the grassroots is literally the nursery for everything above it. Once the marquee players start getting these massive contracts, millions of dollars are siphoned out of the structure. It’s very, very hard to go backwards (especially when countries like France and Japan can afford to pay so much more), as new stars demand more than what last year’s stars got. We have seen that salary caps don’t really work. So clubs and countries with weaker business models or currencies or other revenue generators always lose out to the stronger. The strong stay strong and the weak stay weak. Eventually, the really weak clubs fold. The weaker international rugby countries never penetrate the top ten, so fans lose interest. It happened in Canada a few years ago, and now they are out of the World Cup, perhaps permanently, after always qualifying. That decline was predictable.
Unlikely because the RFU don't really want promotion and relegation. Ealing should have been allowed up last year but because their ground seats 5K and not 10K they were deemed ineligible. Jersey are going to have similar issues as are most teams in the Championship.
Arguably the premiership doesn't need them. Whether they have 13 or 12 teams doesn't change much considering there is no relegation. I think English rugby has been massively damaged by the lack of promotion. That would have added some excitement to the lower teams, and much needed development for the championship teams.
Football is fairly simple to watch and pick up... kick a ball into the net - 1 point! Rugby is a little more complex with it's multiple rules, rucks, mauls, scrums and positions. Not to mention the variety in scoring methods (tries, conversions, penalties etc) Also worth noting that football is much easier game to play - a casual 5-a-side game is pretty standard around the world... but rugby can be more physical and complex to organise. People stick to what they know. Football is easier, convenient and more accessible to most
@@MbisonBalrog Not everyone in Europe plays rugby unfortunately! It is popular in the the UK, Ireland and France... but it's not really played in places like Spain or Germany. Bit like the NFL over here, people know about it but it's very rarely played or shown on TV. Most people in the UK don't even know the rules of American Football
Main problem. They spend beyond the income profiles rugby generates. Rugby was better as a largely amateur (or semi-professional) sport. In every way. Wish Worcester fans and club well.
Agree on finances... clubs are spending beyond their means but it's an adapt or die situation when it comes to talent attraction and retention. In most cases, if you don't match the asking price, the highest bidder elsewhere will take the lot. As for the glory days before pro-rugby... it's tempting to look back through rose tinted glasses but the pro game has done wonders for game quality, player welfare and community engagement (especially through charity and good causes!) Somethings that would've not been as successful in an amateur set-up.
Thanks for the info TBH I don't follow rugby very closely, but enjoy watching the highlights on RUclips. Was therefore shocked to learn of the plight of Worcester this weekend. My heart goes out to all concerned with the club, especially the fans.
International rugby is very profitable, but local Club rugby isn't. Apart from emergency funds during the COVID-19 pandemic, rugby teams very rarely get handouts from the Government. Some International teams may fund their country's clubs but that varies from each nation. For example, in Wales, the 4 pro-teams in that country recieve £23.5 million per year that is funded to them by the national team. That money is split 4 ways between them to run their clubs and train up players ready for Wales. Without that money, the 4 Welsh club teams wouldn't survive as they aren't profitable at all.
@@MbisonBalrog that is the subject on much debate in Wales... rugby is the national sport of Wales and the nation has the most Rugby clubs per population in the world. There is a lot of history and politics in Welsh Rugby and at one point they even had 12+ pro teams. Cutting them down the 4 was a big compromise that many people are still upset about... even if that happened 20 years ago! Long story short - if you cut the 4 teams down even more, the majority of fans would walk away from the game (as has already happened in some areas)
@@MbisonBalrog To many, Welsh rugby goes beyond money. It's a symbol of Welsh patriotism with players/owners often likened to national heroes. Quite a lot of Welsh Rugby is tribal and self-entitled so merging teams for the benefit of money and logistics is deemed as a cardinal sin in some places! It's like in football if Man United and Liverpool were merged... it would go down like a lead balloon 😂
What a terrible situation. It is so complex that a video would have to be an hour long to present all the facts, all the views from all sides. Did the owners do anything legally wrong? Did they do anything morally wrong? Without all the facts, it’s impossible for us to say. The people who have lost the most for those staff whose love of Worcester rugby has led them to work for little or no pay. Is rugby in the UK financially viable? Are wages too greater a percentage of the revenue of each club? How many clubs return a profit to their shareholders? The internationals make so much money and the RFU does return a large portion of that back to the clubs - but in the right way?. Is the money from TV rights apportioned fairly? Does the investment by private equity represent a short term benefit but long term threat? From what I understand, the rugby unions in NZ, SA and Australia are all very strapped for cash - hence why so many of their players come over to Europe to earn a living. And yet, these 3 countries are consistently in the top 5 globally - so, is success and money inextricably linked? The only conclusion that I have, and I suggest most fans should have, is that there are no easy solutions but that all parties should be working urgently to make the top levels of club rugby financially viable.
The premierships salary cap is £5million, comparing it to super leagues salary cap of £2.1 million, Leeds, Wigan and st Helens average as big or bigger crowds than a majority of premiership rugby clubs, and I’m not sure they would be sustainable with a £5 million cap, seems like the cost of competing for premiership clubs is way too high.
I guess the Super League teams can pay lower salaries as they are the only show in town. The Aussie leagues pay more but are too far for some players to leave for. With the Gallagher Prem in union, the big bucks of France is just across the channel and some might be tempted with the superior budgets... the lure of playing internationally for England keeps many but if a cap was brought in too low then some could depart England for French shores if the money is right. Need to do more thinking and research before making my mind up
I just suppose the Gallagher premiership tries to compete with the top 14 however it just isn’t that popular, I think they English rugby clubs should be focused on developing players for the national team rather than buying overseas players they can’t afford to try and compete with leinster/top 14 clubs. As the average person in England only really care about the national team.
@@Chesneydad Same with Wales - considering it's meant to be rugby mad, the most pro-sides are lucky to get 5,000 people per game. Financially they are way worse off that the English and if it wasn't for the WRU paying millions into the regions as a service, the club game in Wales would've gone under many years ago
@@catch22rugby I did think about this as the french tv deal is over 4x our one, so do we try to compete by allowing a few clubs to be bolstered and the others become feeders (like with other countries) or do we just say “ok the big names will go to France, but let’s just accept that and run a steady ship”
Thanks for the information...in this period why not start a go fund me in return for shares of the club...? I've wondered for a while how long it would be before reality hit rugby, as it's not a mainstream sport but acts like it's comparable to the Premiership. Also, the product is not good enough to engage new viewers. They need to take a look at what the NFL did to overcome their past issues
No worries Marc - glad you enjoyed! Not a financial expert but I'm not sure that can be done during the Administration process. In football, Real Oviedo in Spain did something similar by allowing supporters to buy shares in the club... an idea worth discussing I guess
@@catch22rugby You're right, it's probably too late now, but it could be a viable business model for other clubs who are falling into this financial hole... Not sure how sport is going to cope with the financial chaos that's coming...have you ever watched 'Cinderella Man', with Russell Crowe? It's a great tale how someone can go from hyper successful to penniless and rise again...maybe that's rugby's future...?
I think English rugby needs promotion/relegation back. That would incentivise the Championship teams, spreading the game to other areas. It would also draw in fans at the end of the season, when the weak teams currently have little to play for except pride. Relegation battles can really fill stadiums. Also, players from championship teams would get their chance to show their skills against better opponents, meaning more quality players for England's national team over time. It would be brutal financially for teams that are relegated, but those teams have been proven to be financially unviable anyway. Just look at Exeter, they were promoted a decade ago and have since won the Prem twice and a European cup as well, and that was with players that were with them since the championship days. The money they have made has been reinvested in their stadium and their squads.
I agree mate
We 100% need it back. However, there are currently 0 teams eligible for promotion. Until Ealing and other teams can meet the requirements or the requirements change, promotion can't really happen.
@@jameslefley seems like the requirements are a bit of a vicious circle. It's mad to expect championship teams to build bigger stadiums and attract more fans when they aren't even having their games televised, and don't get any real investment or TV money. There are Prem clubs that on average don't attract nearly as many fans as the stadium requirements. Sale only get an average of 4k fans, and they are very competitive. The requirements are 10k capacity.
Agreed - in modern sports you have to consider the entertainment factor beyond pitch performance, audiences need context and stories - relegation brings that.
@@catch22rugby it's a shame that clubs like ealing cant be promoted when there pitch/"stadium" has better hospitality than the rec. I have extreme amounts of love for rugby and to see the way its going is sad! Im doing my dissertation for uni on the business side of rugby and the ability to adapt the sport for a better future so its "interesting" timing for this to happen but my heart goes out to Worcester and the staff, team and fans the make sixways sixways!
Great video again. It has been emotional watching Worcester the last couple of weeks; their performance against Newcastle was nothing short of exceptional!
Fingers crossed we see them back in the Prem as soon as possible
Can we have more of these rugby story videos please? They’re fantastic. I’m a new subscriber to your channel but these really stood above the others, even though they’re very good too
Thanks Krieshon! Yeah we've got quite a few scripts lined up for future videos. Glad we could make things more consumable!
I think David flatman was right to say that rugby players can't expect to be payed huge salaries.
It's also a joke that rugby isn't televised. How are they meant to get big TV money when there's no TV. For half of last season there wasn't even a bargain basement highlights reel on terrestrial telly.
Rugby as a package needs to be marketing and strategised better. I look at F1 with promise though... if they can turn that "old man's sport" around to be the largest growing sport online then surely the same can be done for rugby!
Loss of revenue streams was due to Covid restrictions, not Covid. People were turning up to rugby matches until restrictions were brought in, and they would have kept turning up.
Thanks Dale - might have slightly slipped up on the terminology there - by saying COVID, the intention was to include all the wider impacts (like restrictions and large crowd anxieties etc) within the wording, but this didn't quite land. Appreciate the feedback pal 👍
@@catch22rugby Cheers. Wasn't meant as an observation about your video wording in particular actually. Just a general observation on my part about the trend in the narrative.
@@dalenewton9697 Good to know! Thanks
It is important to say that this £25m debt is largely a tax liability which by definition is a line that just sits on the balance sheet it’s not a payable amount. The total debt actually owed as calculated by the administrators is around £6m m
Thanks for letting us know Gabby - appreciate the input
@@catch22rugby no worries. Good vids though. Appreciate the effort you put into them all 😀
I’m American and starting get into rugby
Welcome to the game that we all love 🏉
Welcome buddy. Please go and support your local MLR team, we in Europe are all hoping that the MLR is a success as we would love to play against a truly competitive US team.
@@joeyfischler1031 got to teach Americans the game though
@@MbisonBalrog Americans are smart, they will teach themselves once they are hooked on the excitement and physicality of it. Americans already love Football, and that's a much slower game with fewer brutal contacts and flowing moves.
@@joeyfischler1031 If by "Football" you mean "American football," you have obviously never watched the game. I'd advise you to avoid making comments on things you know absolutely nothing about.
Fair play Benny, the numbers are growing
A lot of hours and hard work have gone into things behind the scenes so I'm glad things are growing! Thanks pal
What If Cornish Pirates Joined The United Rugby Championship?
Interesting thought! While many people would love to see that happen, there is a minimum set of requirements that clubs need to meet in order to go into the pro-leagues.
Things like stadium size, number of qualified staff, licences etc. At present Pirates don't meet those requirements and they currently can't afford to upgrade everything 😔 it's the same reason Ealing Trailfinders (the RFU Championship winners) weren't allowed promotion into the Premiership. Hopefully one day for the Cornish Pirates though!
Getting rid of two of the four teams from the homeland of rugby is a disgrace. At least Rugby will come home when Northampton bring us the premiership.
Without relegation it was a good opportunity to maybe let the wage bill drop naturally. Its a well supported club but I wonder if they gambled in order to bring in a couple more thousand fans to home games
A gamble that didn't pay off... Warriors are victims of the system but the owners did nothing to counteract the downfall
So Major League Rugby in the USA introduced a 1-minute "water break" that is used for commercials, and everyone in the UK blasted them for it saying they need to find other ways to make money... Yet... verbatim "Rugby isn't profitable."
As an American, I've been very skeptical about MLR not having a Pro-Rel system, commercial breaks, etc. My skepticism is fading but my disillusion about sport in general is growing. It's entertainment when it's professional and entertainment can NEVER be subject to what Pro-Rel does: create drama.
Entertainment only is profitable when it is consistent, and I think sadly this is where rugby globally has to go. HOW it is done is up for debate, however.
Let’s talk about what is really happening. Since rugby turned professional, some of us have been predicting the eventual collapse of the sport. It’s starting to happen. The foundation of rugby is crumbling, as grassroots youth rugby programs are struggling to attract players, coaches, officials, administrators, supporters and sponsors. Nanny doctors want an end to contact, fundamentally threatening the game. Too many kids stop playing at age 18. At the professional level, the players are bigger, faster, and fitter so collisions are more powerful. Head shots and high tackles were allowed for too long, and now the lawyers and insurance adjusters are demanding they stop. So there has been an explosion in yellow and red cards as coaches and some players resist the new reality. The pandemic took bums out of seats, and pro clubs lost millions. Prices went up to cover costs, so fans are staying away in droves. Salaries were out of control for years. PPV TV keep fans at home, and stadiums are often empty. Greed and stupidity created the perfect storm. Now pro clubs are starting to fail. Internationals are much more frequent, and top players burn out more quickly. The season is now 12 months long. Nobody gets a break anymore. The old boys in charge will react slowly and ineffectively. We are seeing results that were far too predictable. What next?
Very hard to argue against all of that. Much of this is very fixable - from player pathways and development all the way though to audience engagement... but with resistance coming from the powers above, it's proving next to impossible for outsiders to come in and make the necessary changes.
But if Liberty Media could do it with Formula 1 then whose to say someone else can't do it with rugby. Remaining hopeful but it's hard to ignore everything you've pointed out!
@@catch22rugby, the grassroots is literally the nursery for everything above it. Once the marquee players start getting these massive contracts, millions of dollars are siphoned out of the structure. It’s very, very hard to go backwards (especially when countries like France and Japan can afford to pay so much more), as new stars demand more than what last year’s stars got. We have seen that salary caps don’t really work. So clubs and countries with weaker business models or currencies or other revenue generators always lose out to the stronger. The strong stay strong and the weak stay weak. Eventually, the really weak clubs fold. The weaker international rugby countries never penetrate the top ten, so fans lose interest. It happened in Canada a few years ago, and now they are out of the World Cup, perhaps permanently, after always qualifying. That decline was predictable.
Would anyone fill in for them in the Premiership
Unlikely because the RFU don't really want promotion and relegation. Ealing should have been allowed up last year but because their ground seats 5K and not 10K they were deemed ineligible. Jersey are going to have similar issues as are most teams in the Championship.
@@IanNewborn yeah - pretty much what Ian said ☝️☝️
Arguably the premiership doesn't need them. Whether they have 13 or 12 teams doesn't change much considering there is no relegation. I think English rugby has been massively damaged by the lack of promotion. That would have added some excitement to the lower teams, and much needed development for the championship teams.
@@IanNewborn So Ealing wasn't allowed to be promoted because the ground holds more than the average attendance at Newcastle? 🙄
Why soccer profitable but not rugby? Rugby more violent. Surely draws more people
Football is fairly simple to watch and pick up... kick a ball into the net - 1 point!
Rugby is a little more complex with it's multiple rules, rucks, mauls, scrums and positions. Not to mention the variety in scoring methods (tries, conversions, penalties etc)
Also worth noting that football is much easier game to play - a casual 5-a-side game is pretty standard around the world... but rugby can be more physical and complex to organise.
People stick to what they know. Football is easier, convenient and more accessible to most
@@catch22rugby yeh but if you grew up in Europe you should know rules. It’s no different from other sports even American football with its rules.
@@MbisonBalrog Not everyone in Europe plays rugby unfortunately! It is popular in the the UK, Ireland and France... but it's not really played in places like Spain or Germany.
Bit like the NFL over here, people know about it but it's very rarely played or shown on TV. Most people in the UK don't even know the rules of American Football
@@catch22rugby exactly just need to teach and spread game.
@@MbisonBalrog hopefully we can do our bit using our RUclips channel!
You can not pay out more than you earn .Just does not work .
Wasps went for a moonshot... but missed 😔
Main problem. They spend beyond the income profiles rugby generates. Rugby was better as a largely amateur (or semi-professional) sport. In every way. Wish Worcester fans and club well.
Agree on finances... clubs are spending beyond their means but it's an adapt or die situation when it comes to talent attraction and retention. In most cases, if you don't match the asking price, the highest bidder elsewhere will take the lot.
As for the glory days before pro-rugby... it's tempting to look back through rose tinted glasses but the pro game has done wonders for game quality, player welfare and community engagement (especially through charity and good causes!) Somethings that would've not been as successful in an amateur set-up.
Thanks for the info
TBH I don't follow rugby very closely, but enjoy watching the highlights on RUclips.
Was therefore shocked to learn of the plight of Worcester this weekend.
My heart goes out to all concerned with the club, especially the fans.
Shocking what's happened to them. Fingers crossed they can bounce back quickly!
Is rugby not profitable in same way as NFL is profitable? Meaning both sports need taxpayer subsidies
International rugby is very profitable, but local Club rugby isn't. Apart from emergency funds during the COVID-19 pandemic, rugby teams very rarely get handouts from the Government. Some International teams may fund their country's clubs but that varies from each nation.
For example, in Wales, the 4 pro-teams in that country recieve £23.5 million per year that is funded to them by the national team. That money is split 4 ways between them to run their clubs and train up players ready for Wales. Without that money, the 4 Welsh club teams wouldn't survive as they aren't profitable at all.
@@catch22rugby Wales is tiny. You can’t split fanbase up 4 ways. In America in area the size of Wales only get one team per sport.
@@MbisonBalrog that is the subject on much debate in Wales... rugby is the national sport of Wales and the nation has the most Rugby clubs per population in the world. There is a lot of history and politics in Welsh Rugby and at one point they even had 12+ pro teams. Cutting them down the 4 was a big compromise that many people are still upset about... even if that happened 20 years ago!
Long story short - if you cut the 4 teams down even more, the majority of fans would walk away from the game (as has already happened in some areas)
@@catch22rugby but then the players and owners can only make little cuz fans can only spend so much 💵
@@MbisonBalrog To many, Welsh rugby goes beyond money. It's a symbol of Welsh patriotism with players/owners often likened to national heroes.
Quite a lot of Welsh Rugby is tribal and self-entitled so merging teams for the benefit of money and logistics is deemed as a cardinal sin in some places! It's like in football if Man United and Liverpool were merged... it would go down like a lead balloon 😂
What a terrible situation. It is so complex that a video would have to be an hour long to present all the facts, all the views from all sides. Did the owners do anything legally wrong? Did they do anything morally wrong? Without all the facts, it’s impossible for us to say. The people who have lost the most for those staff whose love of Worcester rugby has led them to work for little or no pay.
Is rugby in the UK financially viable? Are wages too greater a percentage of the revenue of each club? How many clubs return a profit to their shareholders? The internationals make so much money and the RFU does return a large portion of that back to the clubs - but in the right way?. Is the money from TV rights apportioned fairly? Does the investment by private equity represent a short term benefit but long term threat?
From what I understand, the rugby unions in NZ, SA and Australia are all very strapped for cash - hence why so many of their players come over to Europe to earn a living. And yet, these 3 countries are consistently in the top 5 globally - so, is success and money inextricably linked?
The only conclusion that I have, and I suggest most fans should have, is that there are no easy solutions but that all parties should be working urgently to make the top levels of club rugby financially viable.
It would indeed! Hope we managed to condense the main talking points into a bitesize piece for the uninitiated!
The premierships salary cap is £5million, comparing it to super leagues salary cap of £2.1 million,
Leeds, Wigan and st Helens average as big or bigger crowds than a majority of premiership rugby clubs, and I’m not sure they would be sustainable with a £5 million cap, seems like the cost of competing for premiership clubs is way too high.
I guess the Super League teams can pay lower salaries as they are the only show in town. The Aussie leagues pay more but are too far for some players to leave for. With the Gallagher Prem in union, the big bucks of France is just across the channel and some might be tempted with the superior budgets... the lure of playing internationally for England keeps many but if a cap was brought in too low then some could depart England for French shores if the money is right.
Need to do more thinking and research before making my mind up
I just suppose the Gallagher premiership tries to compete with the top 14 however it just isn’t that popular, I think they English rugby clubs should be focused on developing players for the national team rather than buying overseas players they can’t afford to try and compete with leinster/top 14 clubs. As the average person in England only really care about the national team.
@@Chesneydad Same with Wales - considering it's meant to be rugby mad, the most pro-sides are lucky to get 5,000 people per game. Financially they are way worse off that the English and if it wasn't for the WRU paying millions into the regions as a service, the club game in Wales would've gone under many years ago
@@catch22rugby I did think about this as the french tv deal is over 4x our one, so do we try to compete by allowing a few clubs to be bolstered and the others become feeders (like with other countries) or do we just say “ok the big names will go to France, but let’s just accept that and run a steady ship”
Thanks for the information...in this period why not start a go fund me in return for shares of the club...?
I've wondered for a while how long it would be before reality hit rugby, as it's not a mainstream sport but acts like it's comparable to the Premiership. Also, the product is not good enough to engage new viewers. They need to take a look at what the NFL did to overcome their past issues
No worries Marc - glad you enjoyed! Not a financial expert but I'm not sure that can be done during the Administration process. In football, Real Oviedo in Spain did something similar by allowing supporters to buy shares in the club... an idea worth discussing I guess
@@catch22rugby
You're right, it's probably too late now, but it could be a viable business model for other clubs who are falling into this financial hole...
Not sure how sport is going to cope with the financial chaos that's coming...have you ever watched 'Cinderella Man', with Russell Crowe? It's a great tale how someone can go from hyper successful to penniless and rise again...maybe that's rugby's future...?
@@marclawyer2789 I haven't see it! Will add it to my watch list
@@catch22rugby
Btw, it's based on a true story about James Braddock, the world heavyweight champion back in the depression era...
NFL differently. American football Taylor made for TV. They get ad revenue. Rugby like soccer just has logos on the walls.