We fly only Southwest anymore. We won’t fly on American. We absolutely despise them and a few of the others are worthless Southwest we like how they are if they’re going broke they need to raise the price just a little bit not extreme but a little bit they don’t need to be making big changes. Everybody likes it like it is. They do need to do a little something about their pre-board. A lot of people take advantage of it and get pre-boarded for free they need to fix that make them pay just like I do they make big extreme changes. People will go other places think about how many millions of people fly on Southwest every year just a few dollars more per ticket is all they have to do.
I fly Southwest for a reason. If they get rid of all the things that make them 'Southwest', then it's hard to see the result being anything other than a race to the bottom.
@@fabr5747the 737ng is a very solid airplane that has an outstanding security record. Most 737s are still NGs and totally safe to fly on. Not to mention they are spacier, nicer, and have larger windows than the a320 family.
yeah this whole video seems wildly out of touch. he's just like "wow, so quirky that Southwest would have no hidden fees! why do people like that? so random lol". when Southwest eventually entirely loses their identity due to vulture capitalism, it will be a sad day in aviation history, and the end of a chapter in what it means to deliver respectable customer service. and I say this as someone who got caught up in the snowstorm mess and had to spend the night on the floor at the ticket counter. I always fly Southwest because of who they are and what they offer, and when they change that, I will just stop flying.
The “quirky” and “antiquated” are not descriptors of their customer service, it is their choosing to not modernize their infrastructure or changing their business model as consumer tastes changed
America is in the final days before an empire falls. What you're seeing is especially a body beginning to rot while you're still an organ inside that body. Things will only get worse, prepare yourself.
I'm a retired SWA captain and enjoyed a great career there. What is missing is Herb Kelleher. Herb was loved by all, and he could motivate all for any objective for the company. Look back at the Tripel Crown Award, and all the major carriers SW look a likes we did battle with. He motivated the employees with a simple promise when we achieved 5 years of the award he would dedicate a plane with everyone's name on it. Herb's culture influenced everything at the airline, and made working there fun, and making it a great airline. Gone are the days of the meaning of Herb's Red Belly Warbirds.
I remember working at SMF during a capital program. WN lead the way and committed to the (then new) terminal. The legacy carriers weren't in a position to do so. WN was a powerhouse that carried just over 50% of passengers out of SMF at the time. Herb Kelleher was a great part of that. He made the company and it was reflected in the people. I remember thinking at the time, Herb is not a young man, what will come next.
Planes are too big to operate. Customers want premium seating. Supplier dependence is putting sustainability in question. Unless you're the one losing money, meaning being an investor yourself, it's out of your league to question efforts to return to profitability. Another way perhaps is to advocate for SWA, buying empty seats. Or donating money to the cause of keeping the good thing afloat.
@@acctsysCustomers want premium seating and yet are yelling at the same time there are no jobs, debt is out of control, and they can't afford anything? Like I said - nothing makes sense. We live in a contradictory economy.
Southwest is a public company, its shares are available in the open market; not private one. And while some of the actions of Elliot Investment Management are questionable, they just have a small portion of all the shares and also taking risks if Southwest stock keeps sinking.
I flew on Southwest for the first time visiting my daughter in Louisiana during the Thanksgiving holiday, and I really enjoyed the ride and the hospitality of the flight attendants. The free bag policy is a definite perk for me. Although they don't assign seats, I brought an early bird check-in position. That gives me the option to pick a good seat. The experience was great going and coming back. The Captain was very pleasant he told all those on the left side of the plane to look out the window and see the Freedom tower and the Statue of Liberty on my way back home to N.Y. I thought that was very nice for those who was new visitors. I definitely will be flying Southwest again.
I only fly SWA.I have family in Louisiana, the New Orleans are.I sincerely hope nothing happens.I've been VERY HAPPY with them for well over 20 yrs. L ong make they fly.👋😪💛💙❤️✈️✈️✈️
Loyalists don't fly Southwest because it's cheaper (it's really not). I want to be treated fairly. Coby was wearing a Costco hoodie in the video. Southwest is the Costco of the skies. Not the cheapest, but they are fair and they stand behind what they sell. I can book, cancel a flight up to 10 minutes before, and rebook online without any fees or "phoning the call center". Several times I was proactively refunded for my onboard WiFi when Southwest detected it "didn't work well" on my flight. I can't think of another single company that operates this way.
I visit my sister in Arizona once a year, I live in South Florida. I fly SW exclusively. They usually have the best fare. It's a well run airline, no complaints.
Exactly. I know a lot of people (myself included) who fly WN specifically out of principle. Do they need 2 checked bags? Usually not. But, they don't want to give business to an airline who charges $50 for one. I generally will only fly Southwest or if I fly another airline, it's carry on only, and I never select a seat. I know a couple who was trying to decide between Allegiant direct flight and Southwest flight with a layover. Even with the luggage, Allegiant was still cheaper than Southwest, but it was just the overall principle of it.
6:55 "Southwest has failed to maximize its ancillary revenue" That's a poor way to phrase it. You make it sound like it's a bad thing that Southwest maintained decency by not penny-pinching ripping off passengers for every cent they can out of what used to be complimentary standard services before the likes of spirit and AA unleashed the plague upon air travel. The day Southwest starts charging baggage fees is the day I cash out and close out my Southwest account.
But that’s exactly why Southwest is unprofitable operationally. This isn’t about whether you like Southwest or not. It’s about whether Southwest can be profitable again and how. Like it or not the way Southwest has operated isn’t currently profitable and having the Max 7 on property isn’t going to fix that. They’re going to have to raise revenue, and that’s not debatable. Money in has to exceed money out. The only way you do that is more revenue, because you can’t cut costs. Labor, planes, fuel, and other expenses are what they are. You can’t make a business profitable off the backs of labor and expect labor to stick around. That’s Business 101.
Southwest was profitable for 46 years straight with open seating, no business class, and no baggage fees, so maybe that isn’t their problem. Maybe the problem is that the one type of jet they use finally bit the dust and they ruined their reputation when they couldn’t schedule flights after a snowstorm.
To be fair it had kept them profitable. The 737 was an excellent airplane but had Boeing been honesty from the beginning Southwest wouldn’t be in the situation it’s in now. It kept training cost low, maintenance cost low, and flexible in the routes it can take
@@marioenriquez46 That the 737 Max exists is largely down to Southwest and Ryanair. They simply did not have any interest in an all-new and different airplane. They wanted a more efficient 737, and that is exactly what Boeing delivered. That Boeing has some major quality issues to sort out is neither here nor there - imagine how bad that would be with a whole NEW airplane!
Yes. All they need to do is diversify to a similar size aircraft. Take for example the A320. I know where they can get 220 of them and 3500 pilots to go along with it.
I work for a large US legacy carrier and remember as a new hire in 1996, management describing Southwest as a niche player and not really being a competitor. Over the years after Herb Kelleher’s retirement, I thought that SWA would be profitable if they maintained Herb’s discipline with point to point, no frills service to second tier domestic airports. However, SWA decided to move into the legacy carrier’s full service international routes out of first tier (costlier) airports. If SWA returned to the formula that made them domestic leisure traveler powerhouse, I think they could withstand whatever transition pain inevitably will happen as 737s phase out. That could be way into the future so they have time to plan.
That’s a horribly antiquated model that would’ve killed the airline slowly and painfully had they stayed with it. Southwest carries the most domestic pax per year, it’s clearly working lol
Strongly disagree. It's staying with the Herb model / status quo management style / keeping head in sand is what has brought down Southwest. If Herb was still alive, he can't make 700s appear out of thin air. The world has changed completely since the Boeing merger, the three Max incidents, and COVID.
I worked for SWA for over 23years when Herb Kellehers started that company along with Colleen Barrett but it's not the same love airlines like it used be I don't agree with paying for seat that you want come on really well good luck.
I too started at a legacy in the US and very quickly realized it wasn’t for me…been at swa for 12 years now and still a fantastic place to work but once Herb and Colleen passed things changed FAST..I agree a return to Herbs principles and ideals is what we need. I was lucky enough to meet and speak to Herb on a couple of occasions and see how he inspired people. I wish current swa leadership would continue his ways. One of his guiding lessons was to “never rest on your laurels” ie..never stop innovating. So i truly believe Herb would be the first to say if his method wasn’t working…do something else. So…swa management…where are you?
The main goal of any public corporation is to maximize profit for its shareholders. Treating customers poorly will have a negative effect on its stock price. And of course they treat the CEO well lol why is that surprising?
@@henson2k doubly the case when EVERY industry is controlled by at MAX a half dozen giant corporations that are all in collusion with each other. Oligopolies are all about the rest of us all a gobbling down their balls and r@ping us like a prison ho in the shower.
The real villains here are Elliott, who will tear the guts out of Southwest in the name of "profitability." You're right, people have a loyalty to Southwest-I do. Two bags free, seating choices that you don't have to pay extra for, staff who are consistently the best and a good on-time status-things that matter to me. If they become another airline that charges for bags and seating and lowers the quality of service in the name of profits, then it becomes a matter of which bad experience among the airlines is the cheapest? And I doubt Elliott will spend the millions to integrate Airbus into their fleet-they'd rather use it to pay their managers fat bonuses
The moment SWA starts charging for bags and seats, they might well as repaint their planes yellow (and perhaps buy their planes) because it would be no different from any other budget airline.
Hey, I like those yellow planes. For just a couple of bucks more than a Southwest ticket, I can fly the yellow planes BIG SEAT. Its a sweet deal. SHHHH. dont tell anyone.
@@prichter9798the big seat is just a normal economy seat on any other airline. Spirit makes sense for short flights and short trips that don’t require luggage. In any other case, you are better off with SWA or basic economy on another major airline.
A large part of Southwest's previous profitability was their purchasing of long term fuel contracts to offset rising fuel costs. That is no longer the case.
No, they HAVE had control over Boeing's strategy. They have forced Boeing to stay with old outdated systems on 73 to avoid the necessity of a new type rating.
They should just lease a few A220s to try things out. It might be an expensive and very costly move, but in the long term it may prove to be the correct thing to do. Boeing can’t do anything right these days smh
@@tiramisu7544As a 26 year employee of SWA, I couldn’t agree with you more. We’ve been told that SWA will wait for the MAX-7 even if the EIS pushes into 2027. Just crazy!
@@tiramisu7544 You don't 'Just Lease' airplanes. There has to be adjustments to operating certificate, simulators, training classes for flight and ground teams, dispatch issues, ground equipment and a very expensive pilot training and bidding process.
@@sdstreikerI didn’t take the comment as understating the difficulty involved. Considering the type of people that typically watch this channel, I don’t think you have to worry about viewers somehow missing the logistics of airline operations.
Here's a thought: If SWA wanted to fill those "larger than needed" jets' excess seats, why not restore the leg room for all to the '80's standard, charge a little more to make up the decrease in available seats. But if those seats were going empty anyway ...
My girlfriend and I took four flights with SWA this year across the states. BUF - BWI, BWI- BNA, BNA - LAS, LAS - LAX. Only one of the planes was full and the other three were less than 50% full. Great for us as passengers, terrible for SWA. Super nice crews and vibe to the airline, but I can see why they're struggling.
If customers love your company, but investors hate it, then maybe the customers need to become the investors. Like a customer-owned co-op. Maybe it sounds crazy, but there aren't any other customer-owned co-op airlines, so we really don't know if it will work.
No it's not crazy at all and I'd happily sign on for such a program if it were reasonable but people who are only occasional flyers probably wouldn't be able to do so.
He’s wrong. Potential customers hate it. Everyone who I have spoken with in the past few days can’t stand flying on Southwest. Ghetto boarding procedure, no chargers, no food, no help when flights are delayed, and rude and condescending flight attendants.
When examining Southwest Airlines' customer demographics and financial situation, it becomes clear that the airline needs to develop new products aimed at fostering customer loyalty and encouraging increased flight frequency. One straightforward idea is to offer a "family ticket." For instance, discounts could begin with a combination of two adults and one child or one adult and two children. Additionally, there could be an extra charge for families who wish to sit together in a block or in the same row. This kind of product has been popular elsewhere just not in the US market.
Honestly a group incentive could work. For less than getting Early Bird Check in for everyone, you can get some benefits like that if you are going to fill a while row of 6, or a couple rows, etc. Then just make sure their check in slots are sequential and reasonably early.
@@mrmakaiwi I actually have specifically watched, more than once, at baggage claim, to see how many people check more than one bag. The percentage that I've observed is tiny.
💙❤️💛 I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE Southwest. I flew home on them yesterday actually. I even own a duffle bag made out of their old Blue & Tan recycled leather seats. On my flight out last Friday, I flew on Colorado One. It’s the second time I’ve flown on the her. 2 bags fly free is must for me because I HAVE to check both my bags because of the tools I carry for work. I’m so sad about the rumors regarding SWA. 🙏 the investors don’t ruin an amazing airline. 💙❤️💛 FUN FACT: Colorado One is the 5,000th Boeing 737 ever made. There’s a plaque in the door jam commemorating it. It was neat to see the FO outside taking pictures of it as he was doing his walk around.
I agree. Just cause everbody else does things one way, doesnt mean its a good strategy. SW has a niche and specific customer base who are very loyal to them BECAUSE they dared to use a different stratagey. The shareholders are short sighted and only care about the moment. But if for 20-30 years before covid, every. single. yea., they made profit, they were obviously doing something right....
Regarding the 797, there’s 2 different scenarios: 1. Boeing made a huge mistake by discontinuing the 757 and should’ve kept the production line open albeit manufacture the plane at a slower rate to meet the demand at the time (I do not believe that demand for the 757 went to 0 after 2004). 2. Boeing rightfully discontinue the 757 but keep the tooling and necessary hardware locked up somewhere so when demand comes back (it has) they could restart the manufacturing process for the plane albeit with new engines, avionics, wings and some composite materials. But what do I know I’m just an avgeek 🤷🏻♂️.
It's been covered extensively that the 757 would never have been a proper competitor to large 737s and the a320 series. It's too heavy and it's not possible to redesign the weight out of it. As much as everyone likes it, it was never going to actually be successful as primary replacement/competitor of the lighter/smaller jets.
@@rickfeng4466Unfortunately, it also takes forever to load and unload it, which is a problem on domestic high frequency routes. That's not a problem on international flights, where they have to security screen the airplane anyway. But, the loading/unloading alsk increases dwell time at precious gates, and it needs bigger gates than a 737, but that comes with bigger waiting area to hold all the passengers waiting to get on. There are all kinds of tradeoffs limiting the market for midsized aircraft.
I completely agree with you. Or Boeing should've start building a new replacement then. But instead, they kept wasting time on that old stupid disastrous 737 Max that should've never built in the first place. Now it's destroying them!
Well. The 737-Max7 hasn´t even been delivered yet and will likely be in production for at least a decade. And an airliner has a service life of 20-30 years. Southwest has a lot of time before they need to rethink their fleet strategy....
Kind of the point. The A220 is the same passenger load and is a much nicer plane than a 737. You can actually walk down the aisle without turning sideways. Each seat is at least 1.5 inches wider than the 737 And we Americans are chunky. SW should buy Breeze airways for the a220 aircraft and repurpose them to the thin routes and keep the 737s on the higher capactiy needed routes.
Well, in a time of true uncertainty for Southwest, one thing is certain... I will continue to love Southwest, no matter what changes 💙💛❤. Southwest will definitely look different starting in 2025, but that won't change how I feel about them. They have never been anything but awesome to fly on and work with as a creator. No other airline has gone to the lengths that Southwest has to work with me and help my ideas come to fruition. What other airline could I say let me hand pick which special livery I wanted to operate my flight, when I pitched the crazy idea of taking a 17 hour, transcontinental through flight. Even when I don't have any crazy Southwest ideas, the people I deal with at Southwest are constantly reaching out to me asking if I need anything for upcoming trips and ideas, and that's one of the main reasons they've become my go-to airline when I just need to get somewhere on time and without issues. The number of times I've taken Southwest to get to other airlines' special flights is pretty high at this point. Southwest even saved me and my family one time when another airline who shall not be named **cough Breeze cough** 😂 stranded us after a 7 hour rolling maintenance delay turned into a cancelation without another flight option for 4 days. Oh and it was on Memorial Day weekend, no less. As always, I was posting stories about my flights on IG, even thought this was a family vacation, and my contacts at Southwest were following along. I didn't ask them to help us, and they didn't ask me to promote them for helping us. They helped simply because they could. They got myself and my 4 other family members free tickets on the next flight they had out of Tampa and we avoided having to drive home or pay $550 a piece for last minute tickets on American. Southwest may change soon, but the people working there will remain the same. And it's those people who make it an amazing airline. Nice shot of California One and Imua one squeezed in there. If you ever need any of the raw footage, don't hesitate to email me and I'd be happy to provide anything you need. As always, great video my friend.
I'm really, really hoping they can turn things around. I used to be a Southwest die-hard - wouldn't fly anything else. And I agree that they have some of the friendly and most accommodating staff around which goes a really long way. Sometimes I just feel like a disappointed parent. I feel like I've been on this long ride with Southwest for most of my life, and now I see them making poor decisions. I still have high hopes for them, but something's gonna have to change
@@cobyexplanes I can understand that. I feel like I went through a lot of the same with United, especially in the Continental merger era. They were who I flew most as a kid and their battleship and shades of blue eras really helped mould my love of aviation. Then I had to sit there and watch them turn themselves into the worst legacy airline. But in recent years I really feel like they’ve turned things around and now I think they give Delta legitimate competition as the best and most premium airline in the US. I mean, I think we can all agree American is the worse legacy carrier now 😂. And I’ll be the first to admit that I’m not looking forward to some of Southwest’s announced changes, and I’ll admit I am worried about their Hawaii network as a whole. But ultimately I think they’ll get through it all alright thanks to their people. Hey there’s a video idea for you. “Why Southwest is Failing in Hawaii…”. It’s all quite the wild ride, form their COO being ousted at Hawaiian Airlines to being hired by Southwest, where he then implemented a long term plan to challenge Hawaiian in what could be described as the ultimate revenge 😂. Oh and the AS/HA merger being approved certainly throws a big wrench in WN’s long term strategy in Hawaii too.
imagine being not happy about a 47 year profit streak being broken by 2020 but then having profit after that albeit lower. Why does that matter? 50 /51 years of profit!
Southwest making bags free IS making them money, as a Southwest flier, I would definitely be more tempted to fly a different airline if they charged for bags like other airlines.
Exactly. The reason for WN's loyalty is directly tied to the "no fees" structure of the airline. If they start charging for bags, seats, refreshments.....what would the base have to be loyal to?
If you check two bags, SWA’s no-fees policy makes it the best in the nation. No change fees is also a popular source of travel relief. Open seating used to be easy & friendly. As society has become increasingly disrespectful & entitled, assigned seating is now mandatory. I applaud SWA for changing with the times.
I would rethink the point to point model. Not eliminate it, but since 2020, they have turned many previous point to point flights into connections. As a result, I previously went to SW first, now I can get direct flights for the same price on another airline. I do miss SW.
I'm flying Ryanair from Alicante Spain to Dublin Ireland on Sat 21 Dec 2024. Seats are sill available on this flight for €31.14. ($32.92). That's the flight only, and including a small bag that must fit under my seat. If I want to book a particular seat, I have to pay for it. Same for taking more baggage, you have to pay for it. In my case, for an extra €33 on top of my €30 fare, I can book my seat, plus take a small bag and a 10kg (22 pound) case with me on the plane. Ryanairs prices have made it possible for me and many others to go to major cities all over Europe on a fun daytrip.
The truth is, Southwest is already doing a small scale version of hub & spoke now. I can't fly direct from LA to any of the 3 major cities in Ohio: Cincinnati, Columbus or Cleveland on a Southwest flight. Their connections through their mini "hubs" like Midway, Denver, Phoenix, Dallas and BWI are more plentiful. They wouldn't need to go full hub, but curtail the lesser used point-to-point directs. I always did think it was a dumb idea to have 4 different fare classes when you book on Southwest but offer none of the tangible benefits of paying more. All of their "benefits" for buying a higher fare have nothing to do with a seat, comfort, or the level of service; it's all about points, basically. That's the difference. You can't ask for more money from your customers and then say they have to face the same open seat policy as the person paying a third of what you're paying. So if you're gonna have higher fare options, they need to deliver more tangible benefits people can use that day, not in the future via points.
Yeah idk why people claim they're "point to point" they do have hubs. Allegiant, Avelo, and Breeze are the only true "point to point" airlines in the US.
I just see Southwest as transitioning to the same business model as the other Big 3 legacy carriers. They’ve proven they can still pull in big passenger numbers while charging more.
@ yep that’s the goal. The c suite just doesn’t like change because they’re all the good old boys from herbs day. Herb probably would’ve told them to be more adaptable. He loved his model but knew it wouldn’t survive in an industry like this.
Aviation doesn't return long term gains. Sure you can make money in the up and down cycles, but what a silly industry to 'go long'. That's the issue. Aviation is more of an 'essential service' that an investment. A lot of investors don't understand this and expect the returns to keep coming.
Fleet transformation is inevitable and unavoidable. They should've ordered the A220 years ago instead of the MAX7. The maintenance and crew training would be a smaller scale and the superior efficiency of the plane compared to the unpopular MAX7 would offset the extra cost of a one-model strategy. And when you scale up the fleet size, the economies of scale improves. The two-model strategy works wonders for Emirates, and it would work for SW. Furthermore you avoid the problem of putting all your eggs in the Boeing basket. Business Class isn't necessary for SW, but rather premium economy seats is a better alternative.
Agree with every point you made here. I think starting to make the move to the A220 years ago would already be paying dividends. The 737 is an outdated platform that, whether people want to admit it or not, is coming to the end of the road. And yes, allowing people to pay for assigned and premium seating is a no brainer.
Look at the ValuJet purchase, took over a two fleet airline, with qualified crews. Dropped the ball again. Use the 717 crews to cover while you onboard the replacement for their -700’s. But of course….hindsight.
It was SW that demanded Boeing stay with 737 rather than do a clean sheet. If SW wanted A220 it could have just asked for a clean sheet from Boeing anyway
The baggage fees were supposed to help with the higher fuel costs. But airlines really love free money, so they keep charging and have raised their fees.
Other challenges exist: Not forgotten by many is the 2022 operational meltdown which exposed a lack of investment and catastrophic reliance on an archaic IT infrastructure. They were fined 140 million for the corporate ineptitude which stranded their fleet, employees and disastrously their passengers over the holidays. A lack of airport cold weather operating ability was also exposed. It may take years to fully implement an IT modernization costing them 1.7 billion dollars.
SWA's own people were sounding the alarm for years before this event, and SWA's management decided not to do it, for myriads of reasons I'm sure. What a terrible mistake.
As someone who flies for work MANY times per week I've developed a view of Southwest. Yes, the service is superior to the subpar low cost airlines and yes, they treat their employees quite well. However as a frequent flier at the mercy of my company's travel department... Well, I get a lot of seat time on other carriers. I'm always on one of four airlines. United, American, Delta or Southwest. The Big Three are more expensive, sure, but for people like me who earn status we really see the difference. I appreciate the free checked bags but then I get the humiliation of being herded onboard like a farm animal and don't have the lounges and rewards program of a genuine legacy airlines. There's no incentive or reward for frequent fliers to choose SW. Status means nothing and that's why I don't see adding business class with help things. Business class thrives because people earn status and get upgraded. We don't pay for business. We earn business while paying the airlines for our loyalty. The people willing to spend more already do and it's on legacy carriers. SW is a vacationers airline. Always full of screaming kids and people who act like they have never flown. I'll pay the $40 bag check, enjoy the lounge and sit in the seat I choose. Price be damned. Sure, Southwest is FAR better than Spirit or Frontier but it's also not geared to earn loyalty with business travellers. Sorry SW, you do your best but if you step up these changes you'll be in the line of fire with the Big Three with nothing to stand out. You're stuck in a weird place. Better than low cost (by far) but not on the level of Legacy. Sorry :-/
Ironic that in large part because of fleet commonality for Southwest that Boeing made the bad decision to not clean sheet a new aircraft but bastardize the 737 that led to all these problems and lack of competitiveness with airbus.
737MAX would be actually very competitive with the A320neo family ... if not for some reeeally bad decisions made by Boeing. The aircraft itself seems okay-ish. It is believed that carriers in different parts in the world were asking for a fundamentally different NMA design, but Boeing could not develop multiple different planes and needed some answer to the A320neo. The 737MAX seemed perfect at the time - it was based on the popular 737 family, the fuel efficiency was actually on par with Airbus and it was believed it could be introduced in similar timeframe as the A320neo.
@firstlast1932 true... I think the max is competitive, but they still fiddled with handling for commonality reasons which has led to these problems. After 50 plus years, it was time for a redesign. Have they saved any money with the max or have they tanked the company?
The design is not an issue, its the way Boeing handled the launch and installation of the MAX, besides, its actually very competitive to the A320NEO, especially before the crashes, fastest selling single aisle plane on the market, but I dont understand whats taking the -7 and -10 so long to get off the ground, too much mismanaging at Boeing at the moment and the cultural rot thats plagued them since they decided to replace engineering with Shareholders with the help of MD merger in 1997.
O'Leary learnt everything from Southwest originally, it is time Southwest came over to Europe and learned from Ryanair, who do everything Coby says, already!
Why would Southwest listen to a company half their size doing something they grew out of 20 years ago? The cockiness the Ryanair guys have talking to SWA while living in their past is so hilarious to me
@@designedbybold Had you understood all the negative things Coby said about Southwest, the money making things they just dont do, you would appreciate Ryanair is flying unlike Southwest which is dying!
There’s an issue with that. Southwest’s market segment isn’t the sort of dirt cheap but utterly miserable travel experience that RyanAir is famous for. Southwest is a no-frills airline but it still provides a comfortable and not-unpleasant experience. If Southwest ever tried to make traveling with them half as miserable as a typical RyanAir flight, they’d lose all of their customers and go out of business. If you don’t believe me, consider that Spirit Airlines did exactly that. Spirit Airlines is about to go bankrupt and be liquidated. Southwest isn’t, it’s just a bit less profitable than its competitors.
I pray Southwest does as it always has! Listen to the customers! I would love for Southwest to fly an Airbus, but the fleet commonality could do them in.
I’m sick of the cattle call seating system. People “save seats” for their families and there is nothing left over. I’m often running to meet my connection flights because I’m in the back.
The answer is the A220... It's already the People's Choice amongst passengers and operators alike. Maybe buying Spirit from bankruptcy would be a quick way to kickstart this transition away from Boeing to Airbus and eventually to the A220 once the order books lighten up since it's one of the most backlogged aircraft at the moment and with good reason...
I don't think changing the business model is the answer. The real elephant in the room is that frequent flyers lost confidence in Boeing products period. Aside from the delivery delays the reality is people avoid flying Boeing aircraft due to the recent crashes and quality issues. In my insignificant opinion, southwest needs to start converting their fleet into A220s. Yes it will require an investment with pilot trainings and probably have to wait a while due to backlog but long term will be worth it.
Maybe Southwest Airlines could order the Embrear 195 E2? The Embrear 195 E2 is slightly smaller than the Boeing 737 700, but is more fuel efficient, and has no middle seat in economy class seats.
I think it's clear, yes, Southwest can make changes. But as a solely Boeing customer, they are reliant to a fault on them. I've felt for some time now that Boeing needs not one, but TWO new airplanes. The 797 to replace the 737 and 757, with capacity from about 160 all the way up to 240. Then Boeing needs a competitor to the A220 ASAP. The A220 is remarkable, and Boeing has NOTHING to compete. If Boeing had an A220 competitor right now, there is no doubt that Southwest would place an order for 400 of them.
I worked for Southwest for a few years and a flight attendant. Herb was still alive when I started and the company seemed to be at the peak of its success. The changes make me sad, it feels like SWA is loosing its essence. At the same time, the changes are necessary. My hope is that the culture is strong enough to maintain the spirit of the airline and that the public is receptive to the necessary changes.
"Charge for those checked bags" - shows carry on bags in the cabin bins. 7:13 I do think SW could reduce it to one free checked bag without doing much harm though. Charging for all checked bags and people will be looking elsewhere since there won't be a simple cost savings with SW any more. A lot of SW customers probably don't bother checking the competition now.
Or maybe consider charging for a full-size carry-on bag if they must charge for any type of bag. This (combined with continuing free checked bags) would help keep turn around operations efficient and avoid the time wasting problems the major airlines deal with finding room for everyone's roll aboard suitcases - especially since assigned seating will give people less incentive the be at the gate early.
A220 - “they would have to train all SW pilots on that plane” - Absolutely not! You would have 737 pilots and then have 220 pilots. This would be just like Delta, United, and American having different groups of pilots for different aircraft. The whole crux of the issue is that Southwest was built around one specific airplane, the 737. That worked for a long time but now the 737 is an aging dinosaur whose time is limited.
Exactly right. The A220 is easy and fun to fly modern technology compared to antique 737. Pilots will want to trade up.especially the younger guys and gals.
Premium seats strategy work with international travel. An unspoken rule with all business companies out there is premium seat is allowed for flight continuous flight over 4 hrs. Coast to coast hardly over 4 hrs, with minimum international flight, and no dedicated planes for that, it's understandable no premium classes.
Honestly, Southwest just doesn't have a lot going for it. They are barely priced less than legacy carriers like United or Delta, and are outcompeted both in terms of price and comfort by Breeze, Alaska, and JetBlue. Likewise, when price is most important, ULCs like Allegiant and Frontier tend to offer a better bargain, unless you're bringing multiple suitcases. Southwest's only real niche is their baggage allowance. The seats suck, no snacks, no entertainment system, the boarding process is convoluted, and they still command a fare that is closer to Delta than Frontier. They also aren't a member of any airline alliances, which means there's less incentive for brand loyalty.
The big presence of SWA at BWI has made BWI a really great home base airport. It’s easy access, parking is decent, and the terminals are fine. I can go anywhere I want in the US from BWI. The only exception I make is to take the Non-stop to Seattle on Alaska…
Southwest doesn't nickel and dime you, they just charge an absolutely MASSIVE price from the get-go! You pay the fees and then some when you buy the ticket. Southwest flights are usually priced as high or higher than Delta, AA, and United and much much higher than Spirit, frontier, and JetBlue. I used to fly southwest when it was affordable, but now it is cheaper to fly delta, JetBlue, and AA... and then there are assigned seats too
Agreed. The “open seating” thing is a joke. I got there for my choice of open seats and they told us all to sit in the back due to rebalancing instead. So much for having a good position number!
I think the video title is overly dramatic, but your assessment is pretty spot on. It is safe to say that the old Southwest is gone for good and there is no going back, for better or worse.
Same here. I know this doesn't apply to everyone but where I live I have to go out of my way to fly Southwest compared to United or AA. For a trip where I need a checked bag(s) Southwest can be an advantage if their price is close to the major airlines. Otherwise the longer travel time to the airport (and/or more expensive cab fare) makes Southwest less competitive for me - so please do NOT discontinue bags flying free.
I'm thinking that adding lots of small upcharrges would mean I'd be looking for their base ticket price drop by a commensurate amount. If I had to pay the same ticket price and extra for other things I currently expect to be included I'd seriously look at alternatives...
They could go with the 797 and include a Business Class seating area. Business Class would be assigned seating, but you could still keep the current ticketing/seating methodology for everything other than the business class. This would kind of reduce the over capacity and maybe make it feasible to better fill the jet on their Point-to-Point routes. Not to mention it would be a way to generate extra revenue. They could also implement a SMALL fee for a second bag, like $10-$20 per bag beyond the first checked bag. Just throwing out ideas. I am a very loyal SWA customer, but going TO FAR in the direction of the "other" airlines could be detrimental to their overall ability to stay in business.
The worst part of the opening seating system is people have learned how to beat the system. If you request a wheel chair before security, you are going to be able to board first, regardless if you pay to board in the first group. On my recent SWA flights, there would be 20+ people in wheel chairs. Then so many wheel chairs increase boarding times, its a mess.
If they really can't get rid off the "big" planes, they can start flying more non-stop long routes, specially with those red eye flights. Less stopping in Denver and Midway with east-west flights. I did an early morning PHL to BUR flight recently with Southwest and it was awesome.
I haven’t flown SW in over a decade. SW fares are always twice as expensive as the legacy carriers when shop flights. And that’s with paying for luggage fees. Plus I can never get a direct flight. From where I’m at a direct flight to Cancun is just over 2 hours. A South West flight is usually between 5 and 8 hours due to connecting. I just can’t see the value in choosing SW.
You must not be in one of the primary airports (can't really call them hubs even though they kinda are). Living in Houston and before that Atlanta it's pretty rare that I can beat SW by flying United instead (which DOES have one of it's primary hubs in Houston).
@@jsstuff1431 Maybe American just offers better deals than United does then. It's rare I can get a better price with checked bags on a legacy carrier than I can with Southwest in Houston area.
I flew Southwest Airlines once and hated their Open Seat policy. It was impossible to ensure my family of four could sit together. As a result, I stopped flying with them. However, with their new assigned seat policy, I would consider flying with them again.
As much as I love Delta, I still love Southwest. Every time I've flown with them they've been amazing. It's sad to see them struggling just cause they're not greedy. They're really an awesome airline and the crew has always been so sweet. I hope they can keep going and I hope I can fly with them again.
The Max 7 will get certified and enter service. All the talk about a new aircraft type is premature. The real question that needs asking is if the Max 7 has a lower operating cost than the 737-700. That is what will make or break Southwests fleet plans. Their business model has been proven sound over 47 years, so I do not think chasing the big shiny new thing will really benefit Southwest, especially when premium seating is more for long haul intercontinental travel, and not for short domestic travel. I think Southwest would likely lose money on a first class seating model, and wind up just giving those seats away as upgrades. I work for a competitor to Southwest. Despite their problems in the media, I have the highest respect for Southwest and their employees.
HOW TO SAVE SOUTHWEST: 1. SLOWLY begin charging for bags and communicate with your passengers why you are doing it... to keep in the air and providing the service you have come to love. 2. Buy the larger 737 and become innovative on how you can increase revenue... like adding a business class section. Boeing needs Southwest as much as they need Boeing. 3. No more open seating... charge for exit row and seats with more room. You have to understand that most people are used to these fees by now. It won't be a shock to them. Most people fly Southwest because of the routes they offer. I personally only fly them because I hate massive airports. Lastly and again communicate with your passengers why the airline is doing what it is doing.
Our whole Southwest new seating did not get smaller or tighter. I believe spirit seats are really tight together the first 20 seats from Southwest should be like main cabin seats and then the rest is like they currently have now.
Shifting away from an all-in rate means you need to reduce the base rate. You’d think people would see right through that, but Southwest hasn’t been low-cost in quite some time. It’s been more like a legacy carrier than people want to believe. They’re a huge carrier acting like a startup. The one-type of plane has run its course. It needs to admit it has hubs and start using them as such with more out and back to make its network resilient. And it needs to invest in systems…seat assignments, crew assignments, etc. They had it this good for this long. It’s time they grew up.
I'm strictly a Delta flyer but one time in 2012 I flew on SWA on a business trip. I was able to get a seat in the first row. What a blast I had. It was a party. All the attendants had their own performance. Their pilots are great. Think MaryJo Schultz. ❤️
Everyone I have talked to recently hates Southwest and would never fly it. They consider it low class , rude, uncomfortable, and bare bones bus in the sky.
When I fly in the US I try to use Southwest as much as possible. Even when I don't have a bag to check. I like using them out of principle. Unfortunately my corporate travel system doesn't book Southwest flights.
I don't think isle or window or exit row seating should cost extra. It's still the same seat dimensions with the same pitch. Exit row increased pitch isn't optional as its an FAA safety mandate.
The exit rows on the 700s and back exit rows on the 800s/max 8s can recline. Also in the 800/8’s the outboard seat on the rear doesn’t have a seat in front of it.
I bet Airbus would make them a sweet deal considering it would be a total fleet replacement and maintenance replacement. It's going to be a while before the 797 sees the light of day and it will probably be different enough from the 737 that SW will have to spend big in charges to it's maintenance departments. Make the change in airframe and charge people for the second bag.
Airbus has an order backlog extending into the next decade, so there is no incentive to give Southwest any sweet deals. The only way Southwest may obtain Airbus aircraft is by acquiring an Airbus operator such as Spirit.
@orlandocfi the backlog would mean it's a long wait for aircraft but I disagree on the deal. Southwest needing to replace their fleet would mean roughly 830 aircraft and there are about 890 currently in order. Doubling the total orders would probably give SW some negotiating room on total cost but you're right that it'll be a decade before they start delivering. 797 could take at least that long though
@ One of the misconceptions put forth in this video is that Southwest needs a total fleet replacement, which it does not. But it desperately needs a fleet augmentation, with another narrowbody or perhaps a smaller widebody. For that reason, Southwest will not have nearly the same clout with Airbus as it does with Boeing, and will probably be forced to acquire a smaller Airbus carrier.
@@orlandocfi the assumption was they would stay a single aircraft fleet but that is a good point. Instead of only looking at changing how they lay out aircraft or the fee structure they could also look at fleet diversification
I have been a die hard Southwest Flyer since I discovered them. I love the 2 free checked bags and first come first serve seating. I enjoy the competitive rates and I will pick them over United or JetBlue (my backups) unless it’s significantly cheaper or more convenient. Southwest is an extremely appealing disrupter in the market and I appreciate their story and their mission.
They should order tye A319neo. There is very little demand, so slower prices in a bulk order and buying a true airbus over let’s say the a220 will age better as a type rating.
@6:30, Southwest does upsell 'priority checkin' which effective guarantees you one of the top 15 boarding positions, and therefore one of the top 15 seats on the plane. So in a way, they do have a way to sell more premium seating. The problem is that many frequent flyers have very specific seats that they prefer on a plane and their priority checkin doesn't guarantee that specific seat.
Bite the bullet and go for the A220. Boeing let them down once with the 737-700 and will let them down again with the 797. Retraining for the A220 as well as for the 797 is going to hurt financially, but going out of business is going to hurt even more. BTW this transition in both cases is a gradual one due to aircraft availability.
Southwest as a company made a net profit of $5.75 BILLION in 2023!! they profited over $1.5 BILLION in the 90 days leading up to September 2024, the last quarterly report which was released! it is insane corporate greed which is the only reason that the best airline in the United States will be destroyed. the future of aviation, and the country as a whole, is bleak, to say the least
@@TobyNomad dude if your nose were stuck any further into the air you would drown in a rainstorm. I've flown SW for over a decade and I've never seen any of the things you are describing. Be careful, your sense of entitlement has broken out a neon light to advertise itself.
The A220 is a gem of an aircraft and it’s size would fit perfectly into the smaller size South West needs to run to get higher occupancy rates. It’s quieter inside the cabin, it has larger windows than the 737 and it gets just amazing fuel mileage in comparison! The aircraft will be new so maintenance costs will naturally be lower on the first 5 years and the fly by wire flight deck is cutting edge compared to Boeings product. Get six of them, train up enough crews for them and put them on a rotating schedule through the various routes and make a very big deal and marketing champagne about giving the customers the choice as to whether they like this aircraft… It could be me be a smash hit with passengers that t are facing more choice with all of the rest only giving you a choice of cash or charge for all the sneaky fees they charge. Make a very big deal about this and reinforce Southwests Culture with the flying public. Remind them how great Southwest is! Let the customers be the decision maker.
I’m a travel agent by profession. Most of my clients are elderly and many of them do NOT want to sit in coach! Even then, seniors prioritize comfort on flights so assigned seats are very important to them and they will pay for the peace of mind!
@@DeltaFish11 It's a problem really for major airline pilots. If not for that; they'd likely be outsource for the cheaper regional pilots...which they would. Or their pay would be lower; and which the high cost and risk of becoming one especially here; the pay is deserved. Many limit aircraft to 76 seats but the E2 series start roughly at 90. Which could also hurt major airline profitability since that could hurt their fill rate of planes on certain routes but eh.
I flew Southwest exclusively out of MDW for my entire life. I really can't see myself flying Southwest after these changes are fully implemented. They were never the cheapest, but now the benefits are gone I'll just drive more, it's the midwestern thing to do anyway lol
I doubt to the same extent. The 797 will certainly have a different, much more modern cockpit design than the 737, but Boeing is almost certain to try and carry over some elements of commonality to help make the transition easier for its hundreds of 737 customers. The A220 hasn't had to make any of those considerations
@@cobyexplanes Not going to happen. If Boeing builds an all-new 797 (and that's a big IF, given their current state), it'll have an all-new flight deck, and commonality with what is essentially a 1960s legacy jet will not be high on their list of priorities. Frankly, it'd get in the way of developing a truly modern jet. Just like the 787 shares very little flight deck commonality with the 767 it essentially replaced in Boeing's lineup, a 797 will share even less with the even older 737. Plus, switching to another aircraft type like the A220 isn't the insurmountable problem you make it out to be. Hundreds of airlines have made (and are making) the switch from one manufacturer to the other with no problems, there's no reason to think Southwest couldn't do it.
With Boeings record it will take them more than a decade to get this new airframe off the ground, SW will go broke waiting for a new airframe that won’t even be a good fit for them. The A220 is the sweet spot.
The 737 was never going to last forever. Everyone knows this. If Southwest doesn’t have a long term contingency for this reality then they don’t deserve to be in business. As for the business model, it dates from the days of “no frills” flying when, as Robert Crandall pointed out, passengers only wanted the cheapest price possible for a seat. For right now they can sell frills. That has not always been nor will always be the case.
Southwest got too big to keep their corporate culture intact after HK passed. But their main issue is competition. Over the years, ULCCs have expanded across the country and taken a lot of business away. Now WN has too many destinations, and too many employees - many of whom would have never been hired at the airline 25-30 years ago.....or in the HK days. Also, Boeing's ongoing issues with -7 aircraft certification have made things difficult for their aging fleet operation. Last but not least, the traveling public has lost their civility. The entitlement culture and Southwest Airlines do not mix.
The market is shifting with regards to passenger desires/demands. If a company fails to see those changes and "stay the course", it is bound for certain failure.
I’m an employee at SWA things started changing when Herb stepped down and other CEOs after him worried about pockets of investors and executives instead of the employees and customers. They took away the peanuts now going to assigned seating. Cut employees, benefits, and the perks at the company.! it’s only a shell of it once was! Too bad! Was an amazing company!
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We fly only Southwest anymore. We won’t fly on American. We absolutely despise them and a few of the others are worthless Southwest we like how they are if they’re going broke they need to raise the price just a little bit not extreme but a little bit they don’t need to be making big changes. Everybody likes it like it is. They do need to do a little something about their pre-board. A lot of people take advantage of it and get pre-boarded for free they need to fix that make them pay just like I do they make big extreme changes. People will go other places think about how many millions of people fly on Southwest every year just a few dollars more per ticket is all they have to do.
Thx Southwest for NOT jumping on that "let's squeeze every penny for everything out of the people"-wagon!!!👋🏻👋🏻👋🏻
They might have to if end up like Spirit.
I fly Southwest for a reason. If they get rid of all the things that make them 'Southwest', then it's hard to see the result being anything other than a race to the bottom.
Why do you fly them when they use Boeing?
@@fabr5747 Because internet memes are fun, but in the real world - thousands of Boeing planes takeoff and land safely every single day.
@@TitaniumTurbine Yeah, I'll still go with Airbus !
@@fabr5747the 737ng is a very solid airplane that has an outstanding security record. Most 737s are still NGs and totally safe to fly on. Not to mention they are spacier, nicer, and have larger windows than the a320 family.
@@fabr5747you know airbus has had crashes in the past too. Maybe you shouldn’t fly at all just in case
Imagine living in a time where acceptable customer service is considered “quirky” and “antiquated.”
yeah this whole video seems wildly out of touch. he's just like "wow, so quirky that Southwest would have no hidden fees! why do people like that? so random lol". when Southwest eventually entirely loses their identity due to vulture capitalism, it will be a sad day in aviation history, and the end of a chapter in what it means to deliver respectable customer service. and I say this as someone who got caught up in the snowstorm mess and had to spend the night on the floor at the ticket counter. I always fly Southwest because of who they are and what they offer, and when they change that, I will just stop flying.
welcome to the united states of america
The “quirky” and “antiquated” are not descriptors of their customer service, it is their choosing to not modernize their infrastructure or changing their business model as consumer tastes changed
@@mhedbergfan I don't think he's ever flown on a plane before in his life.
America is in the final days before an empire falls. What you're seeing is especially a body beginning to rot while you're still an organ inside that body. Things will only get worse, prepare yourself.
I'm a retired SWA captain and enjoyed a great career there. What is missing is Herb Kelleher. Herb was loved by all, and he could motivate all for any objective for the company. Look back at the Tripel Crown Award, and all the major carriers SW look a likes we did battle with. He motivated the employees with a simple promise when we achieved 5 years of the award he would dedicate a plane with everyone's name on it. Herb's culture influenced everything at the airline, and made working there fun, and making it a great airline. Gone are the days of the meaning of Herb's Red Belly Warbirds.
Retired after 31 years as a ramp agent...When Herb and Colleen took a lesser roll and when we purchased Airtran it all went to crap.
Well said
I remember working at SMF during a capital program. WN lead the way and committed to the (then new) terminal. The legacy carriers weren't in a position to do so. WN was a powerhouse that carried just over 50% of passengers out of SMF at the time. Herb Kelleher was a great part of that. He made the company and it was reflected in the people. I remember thinking at the time, Herb is not a young man, what will come next.
sir what advice you would give a b737-cl pilot with no experience on type just sim hours and school hours
Herb Kelleher once served me a drink on a flight to Dallas to help out the flight attendants. A total class act!
So Southwest is failing because they refused to be greedy?
We live in weird times.
Planes are too big to operate. Customers want premium seating. Supplier dependence is putting sustainability in question.
Unless you're the one losing money, meaning being an investor yourself, it's out of your league to question efforts to return to profitability. Another way perhaps is to advocate for SWA, buying empty seats. Or donating money to the cause of keeping the good thing afloat.
@@acctsysCustomers want premium seating and yet are yelling at the same time there are no jobs, debt is out of control, and they can't afford anything?
Like I said - nothing makes sense. We live in a contradictory economy.
Who would have thought it's expensive to transport people in a 500mph flying tube.
That’s his argument but it’s weak. Nobody likes open seating where you have to fight for a space. It’s ghetto and janky.
And, Budd Co. failed because its products were too good. It's not a bug, it's a feature.
Two words: private equity. They destroy everything they touch.
"Look at this goose that lays golden eggs! What if we cut it open and take all the eggs?"
@@thedownwardmachine Pretty much
Southwest is a public company, its shares are available in the open market; not private one.
And while some of the actions of Elliot Investment Management are questionable, they just have a small portion of all the shares and also taking risks if Southwest stock keeps sinking.
@@EduardoEscarez Elliot literally tried to take over the company by threatening a shareholder vote of confidence in the CEO
Exactly!!!!
I flew on Southwest for the first time visiting my daughter in Louisiana during the Thanksgiving holiday, and I really enjoyed the ride and the hospitality of the flight attendants. The free bag policy is a definite perk for me. Although they don't assign seats, I brought an early bird check-in position. That gives me the option to pick a good seat. The experience was great going and coming back. The Captain was very pleasant he told all those on the left side of the plane to look out the window and see the Freedom tower and the Statue of Liberty on my way back home to N.Y. I thought that was very nice for those who was new visitors. I definitely will be flying Southwest again.
I always hear good things. But since they only fly 737s, I just don't fly them...
I only fly SWA.I have family in Louisiana, the New Orleans are.I sincerely hope nothing happens.I've been VERY HAPPY with them for well over 20 yrs. L ong make they fly.👋😪💛💙❤️✈️✈️✈️
@@derbagger22The 737-700 still makes up most of their fleet, and has been flying safely for 20 years. 🙄
@@chandlerwhite8302 yep, and I won't fly them.
You can fly Spirit or Frontier for 1/3 the air fare......so if you don't check a bag, then Southwest is ripping you off.
Loyalists don't fly Southwest because it's cheaper (it's really not). I want to be treated fairly.
Coby was wearing a Costco hoodie in the video. Southwest is the Costco of the skies. Not the cheapest, but they are fair and they stand behind what they sell. I can book, cancel a flight up to 10 minutes before, and rebook online without any fees or "phoning the call center".
Several times I was proactively refunded for my onboard WiFi when Southwest detected it "didn't work well" on my flight. I can't think of another single company that operates this way.
Facts!!!
I visit my sister in Arizona once a year, I live in South Florida. I fly SW exclusively. They usually have the best fare. It's a well run airline, no complaints.
And as an A-lister, still get a good seat.
Exactly. I know a lot of people (myself included) who fly WN specifically out of principle. Do they need 2 checked bags? Usually not. But, they don't want to give business to an airline who charges $50 for one.
I generally will only fly Southwest or if I fly another airline, it's carry on only, and I never select a seat.
I know a couple who was trying to decide between Allegiant direct flight and Southwest flight with a layover. Even with the luggage, Allegiant was still cheaper than Southwest, but it was just the overall principle of it.
6:55 "Southwest has failed to maximize its ancillary revenue" That's a poor way to phrase it. You make it sound like it's a bad thing that Southwest maintained decency by not penny-pinching ripping off passengers for every cent they can out of what used to be complimentary standard services before the likes of spirit and AA unleashed the plague upon air travel. The day Southwest starts charging baggage fees is the day I cash out and close out my Southwest account.
L
THIS!!!
He is correct how wall street feels and you're correct how we as customers feel
Then southwest should privatize themselves so they don’t feel the pressure from their shareholders.
But that’s exactly why Southwest is unprofitable operationally. This isn’t about whether you like Southwest or not. It’s about whether Southwest can be profitable again and how. Like it or not the way Southwest has operated isn’t currently profitable and having the Max 7 on property isn’t going to fix that. They’re going to have to raise revenue, and that’s not debatable. Money in has to exceed money out. The only way you do that is more revenue, because you can’t cut costs. Labor, planes, fuel, and other expenses are what they are. You can’t make a business profitable off the backs of labor and expect labor to stick around. That’s Business 101.
Southwest was profitable for 46 years straight with open seating, no business class, and no baggage fees, so maybe that isn’t their problem. Maybe the problem is that the one type of jet they use finally bit the dust and they ruined their reputation when they couldn’t schedule flights after a snowstorm.
So, pretty much like every other US airline after storms in the past? They aren't the first and won't be the last.
To be fair it had kept them profitable. The 737 was an excellent airplane but had Boeing been honesty from the beginning Southwest wouldn’t be in the situation it’s in now. It kept training cost low, maintenance cost low, and flexible in the routes it can take
@@marioenriquez46 That the 737 Max exists is largely down to Southwest and Ryanair. They simply did not have any interest in an all-new and different airplane. They wanted a more efficient 737, and that is exactly what Boeing delivered. That Boeing has some major quality issues to sort out is neither here nor there - imagine how bad that would be with a whole NEW airplane!
Yes. All they need to do is diversify to a similar size aircraft. Take for example the A320. I know where they can get 220 of them and 3500 pilots to go along with it.
@@bbat2159and the flight sims and crew and lots of slots.
I work for a large US legacy carrier and remember as a new hire in 1996, management describing Southwest as a niche player and not really being a competitor. Over the years after Herb Kelleher’s retirement, I thought that SWA would be profitable if they maintained Herb’s discipline with point to point, no frills service to second tier domestic airports. However, SWA decided to move into the legacy carrier’s full service international routes out of first tier (costlier) airports. If SWA returned to the formula that made them domestic leisure traveler powerhouse, I think they could withstand whatever transition pain inevitably will happen as 737s phase out. That could be way into the future so they have time to plan.
That’s a horribly antiquated model that would’ve killed the airline slowly and painfully had they stayed with it. Southwest carries the most domestic pax per year, it’s clearly working lol
Strongly disagree. It's staying with the Herb model / status quo management style / keeping head in sand is what has brought down Southwest. If Herb was still alive, he can't make 700s appear out of thin air. The world has changed completely since the Boeing merger, the three Max incidents, and COVID.
I worked for SWA for over 23years when Herb Kellehers started that company along with Colleen Barrett but it's not the same love airlines like it used be I don't agree with paying for seat that you want come on really well good luck.
I too started at a legacy in the US and very quickly realized it wasn’t for me…been at swa for 12 years now and still a fantastic place to work but once Herb and Colleen passed things changed FAST..I agree a return to Herbs principles and ideals is what we need. I was lucky enough to meet and speak to Herb on a couple of occasions and see how he inspired people. I wish current swa leadership would continue his ways. One of his guiding lessons was to “never rest on your laurels” ie..never stop innovating. So i truly believe Herb would be the first to say if his method wasn’t working…do something else. So…swa management…where are you?
Time for new eJet era to replace the aging 737 NG. Premium SWA with 2 luggage, regular 1 luggage.
It's becoming a pattern for large companies to treat CEO and shareholders super well but paying customers as a garbage
The main goal of any public corporation is to maximize profit for its shareholders. Treating customers poorly will have a negative effect on its stock price. And of course they treat the CEO well lol why is that surprising?
Las Vegas with Caesars and MGM is a prime example
@@triple7marc that's where system is broken: customer service has no effect on stock price, there are enough customers regardless
@@henson2k doubly the case when EVERY industry is controlled by at MAX a half dozen giant corporations that are all in collusion with each other. Oligopolies are all about the rest of us all a gobbling down their balls and r@ping us like a prison ho in the shower.
@@henson2k exactly
The real villains here are Elliott, who will tear the guts out of Southwest in the name of "profitability." You're right, people have a loyalty to Southwest-I do. Two bags free, seating choices that you don't have to pay extra for, staff who are consistently the best and a good on-time status-things that matter to me. If they become another airline that charges for bags and seating and lowers the quality of service in the name of profits, then it becomes a matter of which bad experience among the airlines is the cheapest?
And I doubt Elliott will spend the millions to integrate Airbus into their fleet-they'd rather use it to pay their managers fat bonuses
nope. elliot just came in. swa has been making really bad decisions over the past 5 years. nothing to do w elliot
The moment SWA starts charging for bags and seats, they might well as repaint their planes yellow (and perhaps buy their planes) because it would be no different from any other budget airline.
Hey, I like those yellow planes. For just a couple of bucks more than a Southwest ticket, I can fly the yellow planes BIG SEAT. Its a sweet deal. SHHHH. dont tell anyone.
@@prichter9798the big seat is just a normal economy seat on any other airline. Spirit makes sense for short flights and short trips that don’t require luggage. In any other case, you are better off with SWA or basic economy on another major airline.
@@prichter9798 Yellow planes are good at keeping prices down (despite their reputation), so I hope they make it through recent events!
yes
@@insainllama Domestic First Class.
A large part of Southwest's previous profitability was their purchasing of long term fuel contracts to offset rising fuel costs. That is no longer the case.
That was my understanding
No, they HAVE had control over Boeing's strategy. They have forced Boeing to stay with old outdated systems on 73 to avoid the necessity of a new type rating.
They should just lease a few A220s to try things out. It might be an expensive and very costly move, but in the long term it may prove to be the correct thing to do. Boeing can’t do anything right these days smh
@@tiramisu7544As a 26 year employee of SWA, I couldn’t agree with you more. We’ve been told that SWA will wait for the MAX-7 even if the EIS pushes into 2027. Just crazy!
@@tiramisu7544 You don't 'Just Lease' airplanes. There has to be adjustments to operating certificate, simulators, training classes for flight and ground teams, dispatch issues, ground equipment and a very expensive pilot training and bidding process.
@@sdstreikerI didn’t take the comment as understating the difficulty involved. Considering the type of people that typically watch this channel, I don’t think you have to worry about viewers somehow missing the logistics of airline operations.
Boeing didn't have to cave in to the demands of SWA. Just saying.
Here's a thought: If SWA wanted to fill those "larger than needed" jets' excess seats, why not restore the leg room for all to the '80's standard, charge a little more to make up the decrease in available seats. But if those seats were going empty anyway ...
My girlfriend and I took four flights with SWA this year across the states. BUF - BWI, BWI- BNA, BNA - LAS, LAS - LAX. Only one of the planes was full and the other three were less than 50% full. Great for us as passengers, terrible for SWA. Super nice crews and vibe to the airline, but I can see why they're struggling.
If customers love your company, but investors hate it, then maybe the customers need to become the investors. Like a customer-owned co-op.
Maybe it sounds crazy, but there aren't any other customer-owned co-op airlines, so we really don't know if it will work.
No it's not crazy at all and I'd happily sign on for such a program if it were reasonable but people who are only occasional flyers probably wouldn't be able to do so.
@@ashleighelizabeth5916 i mean people pay for REI so idk
He’s wrong. Potential customers hate it. Everyone who I have spoken with in the past few days can’t stand flying on Southwest. Ghetto boarding procedure, no chargers, no food, no help when flights are delayed, and rude and condescending flight attendants.
When examining Southwest Airlines' customer demographics and financial situation, it becomes clear that the airline needs to develop new products aimed at fostering customer loyalty and encouraging increased flight frequency. One straightforward idea is to offer a "family ticket." For instance, discounts could begin with a combination of two adults and one child or one adult and two children. Additionally, there could be an extra charge for families who wish to sit together in a block or in the same row. This kind of product has been popular elsewhere just not in the US market.
Honestly a group incentive could work. For less than getting Early Bird Check in for everyone, you can get some benefits like that if you are going to fill a while row of 6, or a couple rows, etc. Then just make sure their check in slots are sequential and reasonably early.
I like your thinking!
I’m a loyal Southwest customer. I think it would be reasonable for them to switch to a one free bag instead of two policy.
If Southwest gets rid of the 2 free bags, the airline will collapse. It’s their Costco hotdog. The day that dog goes up, Costco will fall.
@@mrmakaiwi I actually have specifically watched, more than once, at baggage claim, to see how many people check more than one bag. The percentage that I've observed is tiny.
Who TF checks bags?!
How many pairs of heels do you bring on your trips?
@@berad3574 I agree with your sentiment, but for various reasons people need to check bags sometimes. (I try to avoid it as much as possible)
let a sleeping dog lay...don't wake it up
💙❤️💛
I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE Southwest.
I flew home on them yesterday actually. I even own a duffle bag made out of their old Blue & Tan recycled leather seats. On my flight out last Friday, I flew on Colorado One. It’s the second time I’ve flown on the her. 2 bags fly free is must for me because I HAVE to check both my bags because of the tools I carry for work. I’m so sad about the rumors regarding SWA. 🙏 the investors don’t ruin an amazing airline.
💙❤️💛
FUN FACT: Colorado One is the 5,000th Boeing 737 ever made. There’s a plaque in the door jam commemorating it. It was neat to see the FO outside taking pictures of it as he was doing his walk around.
I agree. Just cause everbody else does things one way, doesnt mean its a good strategy. SW has a niche and specific customer base who are very loyal to them BECAUSE they dared to use a different stratagey. The shareholders are short sighted and only care about the moment. But if for 20-30 years before covid, every. single. yea., they made profit, they were obviously doing something right....
Regarding the 797, there’s 2 different scenarios: 1. Boeing made a huge mistake by discontinuing the 757 and should’ve kept the production line open albeit manufacture the plane at a slower rate to meet the demand at the time (I do not believe that demand for the 757 went to 0 after 2004). 2. Boeing rightfully discontinue the 757 but keep the tooling and necessary hardware locked up somewhere so when demand comes back (it has) they could restart the manufacturing process for the plane albeit with new engines, avionics, wings and some composite materials. But what do I know I’m just an avgeek 🤷🏻♂️.
It's been covered extensively that the 757 would never have been a proper competitor to large 737s and the a320 series. It's too heavy and it's not possible to redesign the weight out of it. As much as everyone likes it, it was never going to actually be successful as primary replacement/competitor of the lighter/smaller jets.
@@Fordry It's also a workhouse with great engine power. No one is manufacturing an engine comparable for it even if they did return to the design.
757-300 when full has better per seat economics than the best selling 737NG. BUT when not full, ohohoho 💸
@@rickfeng4466Unfortunately, it also takes forever to load and unload it, which is a problem on domestic high frequency routes. That's not a problem on international flights, where they have to security screen the airplane anyway. But, the loading/unloading alsk increases dwell time at precious gates, and it needs bigger gates than a 737, but that comes with bigger waiting area to hold all the passengers waiting to get on. There are all kinds of tradeoffs limiting the market for midsized aircraft.
I completely agree with you. Or Boeing should've start building a new replacement then. But instead, they kept wasting time on that old stupid disastrous 737 Max that should've never built in the first place. Now it's destroying them!
The business model isn't the problem, it's a positive differentiator.
Well. The 737-Max7 hasn´t even been delivered yet and will likely be in production for at least a decade. And an airliner has a service life of 20-30 years. Southwest has a lot of time before they need to rethink their fleet strategy....
Kind of the point. The A220 is the same passenger load and is a much nicer plane than a 737. You can actually walk down the aisle without turning sideways. Each seat is at least 1.5 inches wider than the 737 And we Americans are chunky. SW should buy Breeze airways for the a220 aircraft and repurpose them to the thin routes and keep the 737s on the higher capactiy needed routes.
Well, in a time of true uncertainty for Southwest, one thing is certain... I will continue to love Southwest, no matter what changes 💙💛❤. Southwest will definitely look different starting in 2025, but that won't change how I feel about them. They have never been anything but awesome to fly on and work with as a creator. No other airline has gone to the lengths that Southwest has to work with me and help my ideas come to fruition. What other airline could I say let me hand pick which special livery I wanted to operate my flight, when I pitched the crazy idea of taking a 17 hour, transcontinental through flight. Even when I don't have any crazy Southwest ideas, the people I deal with at Southwest are constantly reaching out to me asking if I need anything for upcoming trips and ideas, and that's one of the main reasons they've become my go-to airline when I just need to get somewhere on time and without issues. The number of times I've taken Southwest to get to other airlines' special flights is pretty high at this point. Southwest even saved me and my family one time when another airline who shall not be named **cough Breeze cough** 😂 stranded us after a 7 hour rolling maintenance delay turned into a cancelation without another flight option for 4 days. Oh and it was on Memorial Day weekend, no less. As always, I was posting stories about my flights on IG, even thought this was a family vacation, and my contacts at Southwest were following along. I didn't ask them to help us, and they didn't ask me to promote them for helping us. They helped simply because they could. They got myself and my 4 other family members free tickets on the next flight they had out of Tampa and we avoided having to drive home or pay $550 a piece for last minute tickets on American. Southwest may change soon, but the people working there will remain the same. And it's those people who make it an amazing airline. Nice shot of California One and Imua one squeezed in there. If you ever need any of the raw footage, don't hesitate to email me and I'd be happy to provide anything you need. As always, great video my friend.
Well said there Skylite Productions, cheers from a SouthAmerican subscriber
Happy to have you as a subscriber, my friend!
I'm really, really hoping they can turn things around. I used to be a Southwest die-hard - wouldn't fly anything else. And I agree that they have some of the friendly and most accommodating staff around which goes a really long way.
Sometimes I just feel like a disappointed parent. I feel like I've been on this long ride with Southwest for most of my life, and now I see them making poor decisions. I still have high hopes for them, but something's gonna have to change
@@cobyexplanes I can understand that. I feel like I went through a lot of the same with United, especially in the Continental merger era. They were who I flew most as a kid and their battleship and shades of blue eras really helped mould my love of aviation. Then I had to sit there and watch them turn themselves into the worst legacy airline. But in recent years I really feel like they’ve turned things around and now I think they give Delta legitimate competition as the best and most premium airline in the US. I mean, I think we can all agree American is the worse legacy carrier now 😂. And I’ll be the first to admit that I’m not looking forward to some of Southwest’s announced changes, and I’ll admit I am worried about their Hawaii network as a whole. But ultimately I think they’ll get through it all alright thanks to their people. Hey there’s a video idea for you. “Why Southwest is Failing in Hawaii…”. It’s all quite the wild ride, form their COO being ousted at Hawaiian Airlines to being hired by Southwest, where he then implemented a long term plan to challenge Hawaiian in what could be described as the ultimate revenge 😂. Oh and the AS/HA merger being approved certainly throws a big wrench in WN’s long term strategy in Hawaii too.
imagine being not happy about a 47 year profit streak being broken by 2020 but then having profit after that albeit lower. Why does that matter? 50 /51 years of profit!
For investors it's all about "what have you done for me lately".
Southwest making bags free IS making them money, as a Southwest flier, I would definitely be more tempted to fly a different airline if they charged for bags like other airlines.
Exactly. The reason for WN's loyalty is directly tied to the "no fees" structure of the airline. If they start charging for bags, seats, refreshments.....what would the base have to be loyal to?
If you check two bags, SWA’s no-fees policy makes it the best in the nation. No change fees is also a popular source of travel relief. Open seating used to be easy & friendly. As society has become increasingly disrespectful & entitled, assigned seating is now mandatory. I applaud SWA for changing with the times.
I would rethink the point to point model. Not eliminate it, but since 2020, they have turned many previous point to point flights into connections. As a result, I previously went to SW first, now I can get direct flights for the same price on another airline. I do miss SW.
Ryanair learnt from Southwest, maybe Southwest now need to learn from Ryanair.
Nope
@@timduggan1461 🤓
I will NEVER fly RyanAir.
I'm flying Ryanair from Alicante Spain to Dublin Ireland on Sat 21 Dec 2024. Seats are sill available on this flight for €31.14. ($32.92). That's the flight only, and including a small bag that must fit under my seat. If I want to book a particular seat, I have to pay for it. Same for taking more baggage, you have to pay for it. In my case, for an extra €33 on top of my €30 fare, I can book my seat, plus take a small bag and a 10kg (22 pound) case with me on the plane. Ryanairs prices have made it possible for me and many others to go to major cities all over Europe on a fun daytrip.
@@danielpegel5688no one cares
The truth is, Southwest is already doing a small scale version of hub & spoke now. I can't fly direct from LA to any of the 3 major cities in Ohio: Cincinnati, Columbus or Cleveland on a Southwest flight. Their connections through their mini "hubs" like Midway, Denver, Phoenix, Dallas and BWI are more plentiful. They wouldn't need to go full hub, but curtail the lesser used point-to-point directs. I always did think it was a dumb idea to have 4 different fare classes when you book on Southwest but offer none of the tangible benefits of paying more. All of their "benefits" for buying a higher fare have nothing to do with a seat, comfort, or the level of service; it's all about points, basically. That's the difference. You can't ask for more money from your customers and then say they have to face the same open seat policy as the person paying a third of what you're paying. So if you're gonna have higher fare options, they need to deliver more tangible benefits people can use that day, not in the future via points.
Yeah idk why people claim they're "point to point" they do have hubs. Allegiant, Avelo, and Breeze are the only true "point to point" airlines in the US.
Yeah because that doesn’t work when you’re the airline that carries the most passengers domestically per year…
I just see Southwest as transitioning to the same business model as the other Big 3 legacy carriers. They’ve proven they can still pull in big passenger numbers while charging more.
@ yep that’s the goal. The c suite just doesn’t like change because they’re all the good old boys from herbs day. Herb probably would’ve told them to be more adaptable. He loved his model but knew it wouldn’t survive in an industry like this.
Ohio don’t deserve them lol
Wow, finally a youtuber that has all the insights and could singlehandedly tell Southwest's management how to run and save their airline.
Aviation doesn't return long term gains. Sure you can make money in the up and down cycles, but what a silly industry to 'go long'. That's the issue. Aviation is more of an 'essential service' that an investment. A lot of investors don't understand this and expect the returns to keep coming.
the amount of good businesses investors kill off by trying to gain short term returns is ridiculous
Fleet transformation is inevitable and unavoidable. They should've ordered the A220 years ago instead of the MAX7. The maintenance and crew training would be a smaller scale and the superior efficiency of the plane compared to the unpopular MAX7 would offset the extra cost of a one-model strategy. And when you scale up the fleet size, the economies of scale improves. The two-model strategy works wonders for Emirates, and it would work for SW. Furthermore you avoid the problem of putting all your eggs in the Boeing basket. Business Class isn't necessary for SW, but rather premium economy seats is a better alternative.
Agree with every point you made here. I think starting to make the move to the A220 years ago would already be paying dividends. The 737 is an outdated platform that, whether people want to admit it or not, is coming to the end of the road. And yes, allowing people to pay for assigned and premium seating is a no brainer.
Exactly right!
Look at the ValuJet purchase, took over a two fleet airline, with qualified crews. Dropped the ball again. Use the 717 crews to cover while you onboard the replacement for their -700’s. But of course….hindsight.
For their long time survival they are going to have to go thru short term pain changing over their fleet. Time to move on from Boeing.
It was SW that demanded Boeing stay with 737 rather than do a clean sheet. If SW wanted A220 it could have just asked for a clean sheet from Boeing anyway
The baggage fees were supposed to help with the higher fuel costs. But airlines really love free money, so they keep charging and have raised their fees.
Some years ago Southwest posted "It doesn't cost us $25 to handle your bag." #LuvWN
I’m definitely a southwest fanatic! Very loyal customer here! I’ll gladly support them in any changes they make.
Southwest could also acquire the Embraer E2s, in a similar fashion of the A220s. The E195-E2 is doing really great for Porter, for example.
I love how southwest doesn’t charge for checked bags. But if they have to go ahead. Just make the price as low as possible.
Other challenges exist: Not forgotten by many is the 2022 operational meltdown which exposed a lack of investment and catastrophic reliance on an archaic IT infrastructure. They were fined 140 million for the corporate ineptitude which stranded their fleet, employees and disastrously their passengers over the holidays. A lack of airport cold weather operating ability was also exposed. It may take years to fully implement an IT modernization costing them 1.7 billion dollars.
SWA's own people were sounding the alarm for years before this event, and SWA's management decided not to do it, for myriads of reasons I'm sure. What a terrible mistake.
As someone who flies for work MANY times per week I've developed a view of Southwest. Yes, the service is superior to the subpar low cost airlines and yes, they treat their employees quite well. However as a frequent flier at the mercy of my company's travel department... Well, I get a lot of seat time on other carriers. I'm always on one of four airlines. United, American, Delta or Southwest. The Big Three are more expensive, sure, but for people like me who earn status we really see the difference. I appreciate the free checked bags but then I get the humiliation of being herded onboard like a farm animal and don't have the lounges and rewards program of a genuine legacy airlines. There's no incentive or reward for frequent fliers to choose SW. Status means nothing and that's why I don't see adding business class with help things. Business class thrives because people earn status and get upgraded. We don't pay for business. We earn business while paying the airlines for our loyalty. The people willing to spend more already do and it's on legacy carriers. SW is a vacationers airline. Always full of screaming kids and people who act like they have never flown. I'll pay the $40 bag check, enjoy the lounge and sit in the seat I choose. Price be damned. Sure, Southwest is FAR better than Spirit or Frontier but it's also not geared to earn loyalty with business travellers. Sorry SW, you do your best but if you step up these changes you'll be in the line of fire with the Big Three with nothing to stand out. You're stuck in a weird place. Better than low cost (by far) but not on the level of Legacy. Sorry :-/
Ironic that in large part because of fleet commonality for Southwest that Boeing made the bad decision to not clean sheet a new aircraft but bastardize the 737 that led to all these problems and lack of competitiveness with airbus.
737MAX would be actually very competitive with the A320neo family ... if not for some reeeally bad decisions made by Boeing. The aircraft itself seems okay-ish.
It is believed that carriers in different parts in the world were asking for a fundamentally different NMA design, but Boeing could not develop multiple different planes and needed some answer to the A320neo. The 737MAX seemed perfect at the time - it was based on the popular 737 family, the fuel efficiency was actually on par with Airbus and it was believed it could be introduced in similar timeframe as the A320neo.
@firstlast1932 true... I think the max is competitive, but they still fiddled with handling for commonality reasons which has led to these problems. After 50 plus years, it was time for a redesign. Have they saved any money with the max or have they tanked the company?
The design is not an issue, its the way Boeing handled the launch and installation of the MAX, besides, its actually very competitive to the A320NEO, especially before the crashes, fastest selling single aisle plane on the market, but I dont understand whats taking the -7 and -10 so long to get off the ground, too much mismanaging at Boeing at the moment and the cultural rot thats plagued them since they decided to replace engineering with Shareholders with the help of MD merger in 1997.
O'Leary learnt everything from Southwest originally, it is time Southwest came over to Europe and learned from Ryanair, who do everything Coby says, already!
Why would Southwest listen to a company half their size doing something they grew out of 20 years ago? The cockiness the Ryanair guys have talking to SWA while living in their past is so hilarious to me
@@designedbybold Had you understood all the negative things Coby said about Southwest, the money making things they just dont do, you would appreciate Ryanair is flying unlike Southwest which is dying!
Ryanair is a different business model. More like Sprit on Boeing planes.
There’s an issue with that. Southwest’s market segment isn’t the sort of dirt cheap but utterly miserable travel experience that RyanAir is famous for. Southwest is a no-frills airline but it still provides a comfortable and not-unpleasant experience. If Southwest ever tried to make traveling with them half as miserable as a typical RyanAir flight, they’d lose all of their customers and go out of business. If you don’t believe me, consider that Spirit Airlines did exactly that. Spirit Airlines is about to go bankrupt and be liquidated. Southwest isn’t, it’s just a bit less profitable than its competitors.
@@designedbybold 1/2 their size really? Ryanair Market cap 22.17B USD SouthWest Market cap 20.50B USD
I pray Southwest does as it always has! Listen to the customers! I would love for Southwest to fly an Airbus, but the fleet commonality could do them in.
I’m sick of the cattle call seating system. People “save seats” for their families and there is nothing left over. I’m often running to meet my connection flights because I’m in the back.
The answer is the A220... It's already the People's Choice amongst passengers and operators alike. Maybe buying Spirit from bankruptcy would be a quick way to kickstart this transition away from Boeing to Airbus and eventually to the A220 once the order books lighten up since it's one of the most backlogged aircraft at the moment and with good reason...
A220 is going away. It requires a different type rating then the rest of the Airbus fleet. But agreed, spirit would be a good addition.
I don't think changing the business model is the answer. The real elephant in the room is that frequent flyers lost confidence in Boeing products period. Aside from the delivery delays the reality is people avoid flying Boeing aircraft due to the recent crashes and quality issues. In my insignificant opinion, southwest needs to start converting their fleet into A220s. Yes it will require an investment with pilot trainings and probably have to wait a while due to backlog but long term will be worth it.
4:52 SW had enough say in Boeings strategy that SW was one of the big factors in the Max MCAS debacle
Based on what exactly?
@ ruclips.net/video/EXuRthTO-nw/видео.htmlsi=wfRauQVa3TEa0xPC
your link got removed.
@@jnostein it was a link to maximum aviation video covering sw’s role
Maybe Southwest Airlines could order the Embrear 195 E2? The Embrear 195 E2 is slightly smaller than the Boeing 737 700, but is more fuel efficient, and has no middle seat in economy class seats.
I think it's clear, yes, Southwest can make changes. But as a solely Boeing customer, they are reliant to a fault on them. I've felt for some time now that Boeing needs not one, but TWO new airplanes. The 797 to replace the 737 and 757, with capacity from about 160 all the way up to 240. Then Boeing needs a competitor to the A220 ASAP. The A220 is remarkable, and Boeing has NOTHING to compete. If Boeing had an A220 competitor right now, there is no doubt that Southwest would place an order for 400 of them.
I worked for Southwest for a few years and a flight attendant. Herb was still alive when I started and the company seemed to be at the peak of its success. The changes make me sad, it feels like SWA is loosing its essence. At the same time, the changes are necessary. My hope is that the culture is strong enough to maintain the spirit of the airline and that the public is receptive to the necessary changes.
"Charge for those checked bags" - shows carry on bags in the cabin bins. 7:13 I do think SW could reduce it to one free checked bag without doing much harm though. Charging for all checked bags and people will be looking elsewhere since there won't be a simple cost savings with SW any more. A lot of SW customers probably don't bother checking the competition now.
Or maybe consider charging for a full-size carry-on bag if they must charge for any type of bag. This (combined with continuing free checked bags) would help keep turn around operations efficient and avoid the time wasting problems the major airlines deal with finding room for everyone's roll aboard suitcases - especially since assigned seating will give people less incentive the be at the gate early.
Yeah but if they charge for carry on bags you could be more efficient as passengers take forever to situate their carry on bag
Thanks!
A220 - “they would have to train all SW pilots on that plane” - Absolutely not! You would have 737 pilots and then have 220 pilots. This would be just like Delta, United, and American having different groups of pilots for different aircraft.
The whole crux of the issue is that Southwest was built around one specific airplane, the 737. That worked for a long time but now the 737 is an aging dinosaur whose time is limited.
Exactly right. The A220 is easy and fun to fly modern technology compared to antique 737. Pilots will want to trade up.especially the younger guys and gals.
Flew on an Airbus A220 from aus to bos. It’s so much quieter and more comfortable than the Boeing 737.
Premium seats strategy work with international travel. An unspoken rule with all business companies out there is premium seat is allowed for flight continuous flight over 4 hrs. Coast to coast hardly over 4 hrs, with minimum international flight, and no dedicated planes for that, it's understandable no premium classes.
Honestly, Southwest just doesn't have a lot going for it.
They are barely priced less than legacy carriers like United or Delta, and are outcompeted both in terms of price and comfort by Breeze, Alaska, and JetBlue.
Likewise, when price is most important, ULCs like Allegiant and Frontier tend to offer a better bargain, unless you're bringing multiple suitcases.
Southwest's only real niche is their baggage allowance. The seats suck, no snacks, no entertainment system, the boarding process is convoluted, and they still command a fare that is closer to Delta than Frontier. They also aren't a member of any airline alliances, which means there's less incentive for brand loyalty.
The big presence of SWA at BWI has made BWI a really great home base airport. It’s easy access, parking is decent, and the terminals are fine. I can go anywhere I want in the US from BWI. The only exception I make is to take the Non-stop to Seattle on Alaska…
Southwest doesn't nickel and dime you, they just charge an absolutely MASSIVE price from the get-go! You pay the fees and then some when you buy the ticket. Southwest flights are usually priced as high or higher than Delta, AA, and United and much much higher than Spirit, frontier, and JetBlue. I used to fly southwest when it was affordable, but now it is cheaper to fly delta, JetBlue, and AA... and then there are assigned seats too
Agreed. The “open seating” thing is a joke. I got there for my choice of open seats and they told us all to sit in the back due to rebalancing instead. So much for having a good position number!
@@TobyNomad Also, if you pay to board "early" there will likely be 50+ people who board ahead of you anyway
nice lie
I think the video title is overly dramatic, but your assessment is pretty spot on. It is safe to say that the old Southwest is gone for good and there is no going back, for better or worse.
The day SW decides to charge for bags is the day I start flying United or Delta again... good luck!
Same here. I know this doesn't apply to everyone but where I live I have to go out of my way to fly Southwest compared to United or AA. For a trip where I need a checked bag(s) Southwest can be an advantage if their price is close to the major airlines. Otherwise the longer travel time to the airport (and/or more expensive cab fare) makes Southwest less competitive for me - so please do NOT discontinue bags flying free.
I'm thinking that adding lots of small upcharrges would mean I'd be looking for their base ticket price drop by a commensurate amount. If I had to pay the same ticket price and extra for other things I currently expect to be included I'd seriously look at alternatives...
They could go with the 797 and include a Business Class seating area. Business Class would be assigned seating, but you could still keep the current ticketing/seating methodology for everything other than the business class. This would kind of reduce the over capacity and maybe make it feasible to better fill the jet on their Point-to-Point routes. Not to mention it would be a way to generate extra revenue.
They could also implement a SMALL fee for a second bag, like $10-$20 per bag beyond the first checked bag.
Just throwing out ideas. I am a very loyal SWA customer, but going TO FAR in the direction of the "other" airlines could be detrimental to their overall ability to stay in business.
Open seating is chaotic and needs to be replaced.
The worst part of the opening seating system is people have learned how to beat the system. If you request a wheel chair before security, you are going to be able to board first, regardless if you pay to board in the first group. On my recent SWA flights, there would be 20+ people in wheel chairs. Then so many wheel chairs increase boarding times, its a mess.
The moment Southwest places an order for an Airbus, Boeing is going to get the biggest punch to the gut in history
If they really can't get rid off the "big" planes, they can start flying more non-stop long routes, specially with those red eye flights. Less stopping in Denver and Midway with east-west flights. I did an early morning PHL to BUR flight recently with Southwest and it was awesome.
I haven’t flown SW in over a decade. SW fares are always twice as expensive as the legacy carriers when shop flights. And that’s with paying for luggage fees. Plus I can never get a direct flight. From where I’m at a direct flight to Cancun is just over 2 hours. A South West flight is usually between 5 and 8 hours due to connecting. I just can’t see the value in choosing SW.
You must not be in one of the primary airports (can't really call them hubs even though they kinda are). Living in Houston and before that Atlanta it's pretty rare that I can beat SW by flying United instead (which DOES have one of it's primary hubs in Houston).
@ Dallas-Love Field is the airport in my area. Seems like a pretty busy hub for South West.
@@jsstuff1431 Maybe American just offers better deals than United does then. It's rare I can get a better price with checked bags on a legacy carrier than I can with Southwest in Houston area.
I flew Southwest Airlines once and hated their Open Seat policy. It was impossible to ensure my family of four could sit together. As a result, I stopped flying with them. However, with their new assigned seat policy, I would consider flying with them again.
As much as I love Delta, I still love Southwest. Every time I've flown with them they've been amazing. It's sad to see them struggling just cause they're not greedy. They're really an awesome airline and the crew has always been so sweet. I hope they can keep going and I hope I can fly with them again.
The Max 7 will get certified and enter service. All the talk about a new aircraft type is premature. The real question that needs asking is if the Max 7 has a lower operating cost than the 737-700. That is what will make or break Southwests fleet plans. Their business model has been proven sound over 47 years, so I do not think chasing the big shiny new thing will really benefit Southwest, especially when premium seating is more for long haul intercontinental travel, and not for short domestic travel. I think Southwest would likely lose money on a first class seating model, and wind up just giving those seats away as upgrades. I work for a competitor to Southwest. Despite their problems in the media, I have the highest respect for Southwest and their employees.
Nice words
HOW TO SAVE SOUTHWEST: 1. SLOWLY begin charging for bags and communicate with your passengers why you are doing it... to keep in the air and providing the service you have come to love. 2. Buy the larger 737 and become innovative on how you can increase revenue... like adding a business class section. Boeing needs Southwest as much as they need Boeing. 3. No more open seating... charge for exit row and seats with more room. You have to understand that most people are used to these fees by now. It won't be a shock to them. Most people fly Southwest because of the routes they offer. I personally only fly them because I hate massive airports.
Lastly and again communicate with your passengers why the airline is doing what it is doing.
Our whole Southwest new seating did not get smaller or tighter. I believe spirit seats are really tight together the first 20 seats from Southwest should be like main cabin seats and then the rest is like they currently have now.
Shifting away from an all-in rate means you need to reduce the base rate. You’d think people would see right through that, but Southwest hasn’t been low-cost in quite some time. It’s been more like a legacy carrier than people want to believe. They’re a huge carrier acting like a startup. The one-type of plane has run its course. It needs to admit it has hubs and start using them as such with more out and back to make its network resilient. And it needs to invest in systems…seat assignments, crew assignments, etc. They had it this good for this long. It’s time they grew up.
Ryanair, wizz air and easyjet are running the 1 aircraft family model very successfully. Maybe the problem is the manufacturer.
I'm strictly a Delta flyer but one time in 2012 I flew on SWA on a business trip. I was able to get a seat in the first row. What a blast I had. It was a party. All the attendants had their own performance. Their pilots are great. Think MaryJo Schultz. ❤️
Everybody loves Southwest? Might be a bit extreme.
Everyone I have talked to recently hates Southwest and would never fly it. They consider it low class , rude, uncomfortable, and bare bones bus in the sky.
When I fly in the US I try to use Southwest as much as possible. Even when I don't have a bag to check. I like using them out of principle.
Unfortunately my corporate travel system doesn't book Southwest flights.
I don't think isle or window or exit row seating should cost extra. It's still the same seat dimensions with the same pitch. Exit row increased pitch isn't optional as its an FAA safety mandate.
The exit rows on the 700s and back exit rows on the 800s/max 8s can recline. Also in the 800/8’s the outboard seat on the rear doesn’t have a seat in front of it.
Supply and demand my friend
Great video, Coby. No easy answers.
I bet Airbus would make them a sweet deal considering it would be a total fleet replacement and maintenance replacement. It's going to be a while before the 797 sees the light of day and it will probably be different enough from the 737 that SW will have to spend big in charges to it's maintenance departments. Make the change in airframe and charge people for the second bag.
Airbus has an order backlog extending into the next decade, so there is no incentive to give Southwest any sweet deals. The only way Southwest may obtain Airbus aircraft is by acquiring an Airbus operator such as Spirit.
@orlandocfi the backlog would mean it's a long wait for aircraft but I disagree on the deal. Southwest needing to replace their fleet would mean roughly 830 aircraft and there are about 890 currently in order. Doubling the total orders would probably give SW some negotiating room on total cost but you're right that it'll be a decade before they start delivering. 797 could take at least that long though
@ One of the misconceptions put forth in this video is that Southwest needs a total fleet replacement, which it does not. But it desperately needs a fleet augmentation, with another narrowbody or perhaps a smaller widebody. For that reason, Southwest will not have nearly the same clout with Airbus as it does with Boeing, and will probably be forced to acquire a smaller Airbus carrier.
@@orlandocfi the assumption was they would stay a single aircraft fleet but that is a good point. Instead of only looking at changing how they lay out aircraft or the fee structure they could also look at fleet diversification
I have been a die hard Southwest Flyer since I discovered them. I love the 2 free checked bags and first come first serve seating. I enjoy the competitive rates and I will pick them over United or JetBlue (my backups) unless it’s significantly cheaper or more convenient. Southwest is an extremely appealing disrupter in the market and I appreciate their story and their mission.
They should order tye A319neo. There is very little demand, so slower prices in a bulk order and buying a true airbus over let’s say the a220 will age better as a type rating.
@6:30, Southwest does upsell 'priority checkin' which effective guarantees you one of the top 15 boarding positions, and therefore one of the top 15 seats on the plane. So in a way, they do have a way to sell more premium seating. The problem is that many frequent flyers have very specific seats that they prefer on a plane and their priority checkin doesn't guarantee that specific seat.
Bite the bullet and go for the A220. Boeing let them down once with the 737-700 and will let them down again with the 797. Retraining for the A220 as well as for the 797 is going to hurt financially, but going out of business is going to hurt even more. BTW this transition in both cases is a gradual one due to aircraft availability.
Southwest as a company made a net profit of $5.75 BILLION in 2023!! they profited over $1.5 BILLION in the 90 days leading up to September 2024, the last quarterly report which was released! it is insane corporate greed which is the only reason that the best airline in the United States will be destroyed. the future of aviation, and the country as a whole, is bleak, to say the least
Ever stand around a SW boarding area ? It’s like being in a line for a tractor pull !
You must fit right in then.
All that hard work counting to 60...
It’s horrific. The people on my last SW flight were crass, rude and acted like they were on a metro bus, not a tractor.
@@TobyNomad dude if your nose were stuck any further into the air you would drown in a rainstorm. I've flown SW for over a decade and I've never seen any of the things you are describing. Be careful, your sense of entitlement has broken out a neon light to advertise itself.
Great employees, two bags fly free, good network, good on time performance, great competition factor. What’s not to love? My favorite airline.
The A220 is a gem of an aircraft and it’s size would fit perfectly into the smaller size South West needs to run to get higher occupancy rates. It’s quieter inside the cabin, it has larger windows than the 737 and it gets just amazing fuel mileage in comparison!
The aircraft will be new so maintenance costs will naturally be lower on the first 5 years and the fly by wire flight deck is cutting edge compared to Boeings product. Get six of them, train up enough crews for them and put them on a rotating schedule through the various routes and make a very big deal and marketing champagne about giving the customers the choice as to whether they like this aircraft…
It could be me be a smash hit with passengers that t are facing more choice with all of the rest only giving you a choice of cash or charge for all the sneaky fees they charge. Make a very big deal about this and reinforce Southwests Culture with the flying public. Remind them how great Southwest is! Let the customers be the decision maker.
I’m a travel agent by profession. Most of my clients are elderly and many of them do NOT want to sit in coach! Even then, seniors prioritize comfort on flights so assigned seats are very important to them and they will pay for the peace of mind!
Southwest is going to need to pick the E2-195 or A223
The scope clause needs to changed tbh.
@@trilight3597 That's more of a problem for regional pilots but yes it does
@@DeltaFish11 It's a problem really for major airline pilots. If not for that; they'd likely be outsource for the cheaper regional pilots...which they would. Or their pay would be lower; and which the high cost and risk of becoming one especially here; the pay is deserved. Many limit aircraft to 76 seats but the E2 series start roughly at 90. Which could also hurt major airline profitability since that could hurt their fill rate of planes on certain routes but eh.
Southwest is my default airline, never had an issue. Sad they are struggling. I hope they can pull through it 🛫
Whenever I book domestic flight, Southwest is the first one I look at.
I flew Southwest exclusively out of MDW for my entire life. I really can't see myself flying Southwest after these changes are fully implemented. They were never the cheapest, but now the benefits are gone
I'll just drive more, it's the midwestern thing to do anyway lol
Coby. If SWA went to the 797 then they'd have all the infrastructure and training costs that would come with the A220.
I doubt to the same extent. The 797 will certainly have a different, much more modern cockpit design than the 737, but Boeing is almost certain to try and carry over some elements of commonality to help make the transition easier for its hundreds of 737 customers. The A220 hasn't had to make any of those considerations
@@cobyexplanes Not going to happen. If Boeing builds an all-new 797 (and that's a big IF, given their current state), it'll have an all-new flight deck, and commonality with what is essentially a 1960s legacy jet will not be high on their list of priorities. Frankly, it'd get in the way of developing a truly modern jet. Just like the 787 shares very little flight deck commonality with the 767 it essentially replaced in Boeing's lineup, a 797 will share even less with the even older 737.
Plus, switching to another aircraft type like the A220 isn't the insurmountable problem you make it out to be. Hundreds of airlines have made (and are making) the switch from one manufacturer to the other with no problems, there's no reason to think Southwest couldn't do it.
With Boeings record it will take them more than a decade to get this new airframe off the ground, SW will go broke waiting for a new airframe that won’t even be a good fit for them. The A220 is the sweet spot.
@@nicov1837 Most airlines though do not entirely rely on not only one manufacturer's plane but also one model family of that manufacturer.
The 737 was never going to last forever. Everyone knows this. If Southwest doesn’t have a long term contingency for this reality then they don’t deserve to be in business. As for the business model, it dates from the days of “no frills” flying when, as Robert Crandall pointed out, passengers only wanted the cheapest price possible for a seat. For right now they can sell frills. That has not always been nor will always be the case.
Why do they have to buy the A220. Why not the E195?
Southwest got too big to keep their corporate culture intact after HK passed. But their main issue is competition. Over the years, ULCCs have expanded across the country and taken a lot of business away. Now WN has too many destinations, and too many employees - many of whom would have never been hired at the airline 25-30 years ago.....or in the HK days. Also, Boeing's ongoing issues with -7 aircraft certification have made things difficult for their aging fleet operation. Last but not least, the traveling public has lost their civility. The entitlement culture and Southwest Airlines do not mix.
Every seat full on every flight.
The market is shifting with regards to passenger desires/demands. If a company fails to see those changes and "stay the course", it is bound for certain failure.
Being a Boeing only airline may have worked in the past but it's clearly being a detriment right now and Southwest needs to change that.
I’m an employee at SWA things started changing when Herb stepped down and other CEOs after him worried about pockets of investors and executives instead of the employees and customers. They took away the peanuts now going to assigned seating. Cut employees, benefits, and the perks at the company.! it’s only a shell of it once was! Too bad! Was an amazing company!