FWIW, truck towers exist for these engines with an ear for a contact strip on each side. At some point in the 1980s they were added. There are variants of this drive in Model Power and Mantua engines which have them as well. I typically buy junkers with busted handrails or missing shells for a few bucks at shows (remember train shows?) and save them to combine the best parts when adding power to a dummy engine. The performance is limited most by the lack of pickup from all wheels.
I'd say yes and no depends on the gearing. The mantuas pacifics i got have 3 pole motors and can crawl somewhat pretty good but i do have a 5 pole that can crawl and do consistent speed. I have a tyco chattanooga 2-8-0 that has 3 pole tender drive and being that is a power torque its quiet and runs great. I used to have a Bachmann Spectrum Pacific until my mother's cat broke it off my shelf I still have the motor to it it also had a very big worm gear and it would crawl very slowly it had a 5 pole motor and when I did have it it would pull awesome so I would say depending on the worm gear and the final drive gear would get you the realistic speed which is the Taiko Mantua Pacific's that I have if I found a way to get a scale speed miles per hour I'm sure they doing according to the drive wheels that it has which are 80 inch drivers they're probably doing I'd say about 80 miles an hour scale speed and that's at full power but if I run line at like 25 to 30% they're probably doing about 25 to 40 mph
Technically a 5 pole diagonal coil motor can turn slower as does not need that much inertia to generate consistent electromagnetic repulse, but as it has been said, worm gear and reduction has a lot to do. Also Marklin went one step ahead with the C sinus engines with 9 poles.
Well, the MoP originally preferred the Alcos, for their rapid acceleration, didn't know about their Prime mover failures yet, so if you wanna model the steam/diesel transition, Alco has a big place in it. Keep doin whatcha doin, n I'll keep watchin.
I was thinking of repowering a locomotive of mine, having watched this video, but I guess whoever was selling these isn't selling them anymore. There seem to be slim pickings for dual-shaft 5 pole motors. I was hoping for something like these with accessible brush holders so that I can service it easily in the future. I found some single-shaft motors that seem useful, but for now I haven't decided what dual-shaft motor to buy for the repower project.
Those are a Chinese knockoff of the Kato HM-5 motor, so I bought 7 of them to try a while back. They’re great. I now upgrade all of my Athearn Blue Box and RTR engines with them and order them 2 dozen at a time. Shop around and you can get them for as little as $2.42 each on eBay if buying in bulk. I’ve got about 75-85 engines to retrofit with these, but you can even cut one shaft off with a Dremel and put them in Rivarossi steamers and even old brass steam from PFM and United. They’re pretty versatile.
I've used those exact motors to replace the drivetrain in my first run Proto 2000 E8's. The old drivetrain was extremely noisy, but with these motors and Athearn 1 piece driveshafts they are near silent.
@@jeremyjohnsom9672 Unfortunately that reseller no longer lists them and I'm having trouble finding them again. They are however basically identical to a Kato HM-5 at $25/each. I would not be surprised if they are identical and came from the same factory with differnt packaging.
It's now an F7R. I bought some China made motors with flywheels and installed one in my Athearn SD40-2. The improvement is very noticeable. I got 4 more to install once I figure out which of my old boys needs new motors.
@@frankb5686 eBay under the search of: 5pcs/Lot 1/87 Train Model Ho Scale 12V Motor 12500RPM Including Flywheel. There are many sellers, most from China companies. There are different sizes for certain models except switchers.
Hey now this is good to know. Heck i was wondering if RC car dc motors would work difference is the locomotive would run way to fast or slow. Awesome tip and review! Also nice repair job you did a great job fixing it.
@SMTMainline no have no idea. They were pretty good. I did find some 5 pole duel shaft motors that will handle up to 24v at 12v about 11000 rpm only issue is the size of the shafts they are only 5.5. mm .I just used two in my model power conversions a and b units. Running both motors on a soundtraxx dcc decoder . You can see how they run .I put a video up.
Of coursecthey can. The body shells AHM, produced in the 70's can't be reproduced now, but with some improvements, they could be turned into world class models. I dunno bout modern controls, and sound systems, but what the hell, nobody's perfect.
Five pole and skew wound? They outta be pretty good!!! And on the bulb in that old F unit...replace it with an LED and a resistor. The Ohms and wattage of the resistor would vary based on (1) input voltage, (2) LED voltage drop, and (3) LED current desired, in milliamps. You would probably select about a 15 volt inout voltage, the average of an LED voltage drop is about 1.4 volts, with about a 20-30 milliamp current draw. Based on those specs, a resistor would be about a 470 Ohm resistor, at least 1/2 watt rating. A good calculator can be found here: www.quickar.com/bestledcalc.php I replace lamps in locos with LED's and resistors as often as possible, given that bulbs eventually burn out, and will burn out faster when driven with voltage over their rating. An LED with a proper resistor installed won't have that problem. And...you can now get LED's so small that they can be used even as those small light at the rear of a loco, caboose lights, or as ditch lights. That said...great job with that motor replacement, Harrison!!!!
That gives minimum resistor value and maximum LED current rating, which is way too bright. I suggest 1.5k or 1.8k as a better value for the resistor. This reduces LED current to 1/2 or even 1/3 of max rating, a dimmer LED that is still realistically bright, and greatly extends life of the LED. You will likely wear out the loco's motor before the headlight quits. Also, older type (1950's-1990) locomotives you may want to use "Warm White" LEDs. Newer type locos (1990 to present) use "Pure White" LEDs. This is like the older yellowish car headlights vs. newer pure white headlights, and the same is true of loco headlights.
since you showed off your broken CN locomotive. it reminded me that I saw a GP-40-2L(w) the other day in my little town of Kenova, West Virginia. one in the coal factory company colors and one still wearing it CN colors. their web site even says there from Canada. which was cool for me as I never saw that design in person for GP-40's but because of the CN look and design I knew just where they came from lol and if it wasn't for your channel I probably wouldn't have know what the CN railroad logo would look like
Angry railfan .....there’s a video that I seen that shows how to install a motor from a PS3 controller into a Tyco locomotive. I was shocked to see how similar it looks.
I really can't see how much more you'd improve the conversion. Maybe less hot glue? Small pieces of wood might even work to get it in there, but I'm not really sure. It runs great, though. Very neat and most likely worth while experiment. The one thing that worries me is the quality. As you said, you don't know what kind of brushes and whatnot they have.
@@NortheasternP.T.S. Exactly. It very well may come to that. Is the old motor much better? Most likely, considering it was made for the purpose of pulling rolling stock, etc.
Be careful with these cheap motors on Locomotives. If the motor doesn't have a stall ability in the case of derailment or wheel jam the motor will continue to spin and shred the gears and motor couplers right off lol. Learned this through experience, when you test the motor before installing get a good hold of the shaft and see if you can stop it from spinning, if you can't stop the shaft then just be careful with it while running.
does that small pensylvania loco run? I Have the exact same train with its box and rolling stock still, but mines i had to do a complete rebuild on, it had a broken tender connector at the metal side, so i was wonder
I have an old Mantua Tyco 4-6-2 steam engine that I really like. The electric motor runs considerably slower going forward than in reverse. Where can I get a new motor for it? Who sells one that would work?
I just googled "12 volt motor" on Ebay and it was the first result. I can give you a link to the seller however there is like 100 of them selling the same kind at basically the same price.
Señores: habría que ver en una exhibición, con horas de marcha, en otro modelo más pesado, arrastrando un buen convoy, a ver cómo se comporta. Estos los venden como Kato, y un motor Kato original costaba como $ 40 en el sitio de ellos. Pero estos...¿serán originales? lo dudo. Made in China de seguro. En fin, uno obtiene resultados por el precio que paga.
If only you could find old tyco pole motors you know so I can replace the one in my silver streak if I need to At least these will be good if I ever get a compatible engine that can take them
search 12v 5 pole motor, and don't set a category. If for some reason you get a large number of results, then set a filter for under $8, and sort by lowest price. You should find them.
Here is one result for example: www.ebay.com.au/itm/DC-12V-24V-High-Speed-5-Pole-Rotor-Micro-20mm-Motor-Dual-2mm-Shaft-DIY-Car-Boat/263905118204?hash=item3d71f887fc:g:D7kAAOSwk6dbiKDy
If you could fit and link them you would gain double the power but it's less efficient and you would need to add a lot of weight otherwise wheel slip would make the added power useless.
Quality is part of it but also just the design. 5 pole motors perform better for model trains since they can produce more torque and can do a better low speed.
That F Unit probably flies faster now than that old motor. Great job! - Jason
Great mentoring. Teaching model railroading can be really fun, and still on a small budget. 👍😁
FWIW, truck towers exist for these engines with an ear for a contact strip on each side. At some point in the 1980s they were added. There are variants of this drive in Model Power and Mantua engines which have them as well.
I typically buy junkers with busted handrails or missing shells for a few bucks at shows (remember train shows?) and save them to combine the best parts when adding power to a dummy engine. The performance is limited most by the lack of pickup from all wheels.
Congrat's on the purchases and motor upgrades! You could replace the Athearn motors just as well. Go nuts! Sam would be proud of you!
Do 5 pole motors give a steam engine a realistic speed
I'd say yes and no depends on the gearing. The mantuas pacifics i got have 3 pole motors and can crawl somewhat pretty good but i do have a 5 pole that can crawl and do consistent speed. I have a tyco chattanooga 2-8-0 that has 3 pole tender drive and being that is a power torque its quiet and runs great. I used to have a Bachmann Spectrum Pacific until my mother's cat broke it off my shelf I still have the motor to it it also had a very big worm gear and it would crawl very slowly it had a 5 pole motor and when I did have it it would pull awesome so I would say depending on the worm gear and the final drive gear would get you the realistic speed which is the Taiko Mantua Pacific's that I have if I found a way to get a scale speed miles per hour I'm sure they doing according to the drive wheels that it has which are 80 inch drivers they're probably doing I'd say about 80 miles an hour scale speed and that's at full power but if I run line at like 25 to 30% they're probably doing about 25 to 40 mph
Technically a 5 pole diagonal coil motor can turn slower as does not need that much inertia to generate consistent electromagnetic repulse, but as it has been said, worm gear and reduction has a lot to do.
Also Marklin went one step ahead with the C sinus engines with 9 poles.
5 poles just make it run smoother, like a 40% increase in smoothness
Those motors are also used on most Hornby OO scale steam locomotives that works well on a five-pole motor
I love how you are willing to dive in and try things. I was such a chicken about that at first.
I mean it doesn't cost a lot to build a motor, but these are still really cheap! I was pleasantly surprised and might have to pick up a couple too.
Now...put a DCC decoder in that puppy, and it'll be a gem!!!!
Well, the MoP originally preferred the Alcos, for their rapid acceleration, didn't know about their Prime mover failures yet, so if you wanna model the steam/diesel transition, Alco has a big place in it. Keep doin whatcha doin, n I'll keep watchin.
Walthers, Broadway, Intermountain, Atlas, Scaletrains and other companies use a version of this motor.
Awesome, Harrison. Thanks for inspiring a future project.
I was thinking of repowering a locomotive of mine, having watched this video, but I guess whoever was selling these isn't selling them anymore. There seem to be slim pickings for dual-shaft 5 pole motors. I was hoping for something like these with accessible brush holders so that I can service it easily in the future. I found some single-shaft motors that seem useful, but for now I haven't decided what dual-shaft motor to buy for the repower project.
Same.LMK if you find one
Those are a Chinese knockoff of the Kato HM-5 motor, so I bought 7 of them to try a while back. They’re great. I now upgrade all of my Athearn Blue Box and RTR engines with them and order them 2 dozen at a time. Shop around and you can get them for as little as $2.42 each on eBay if buying in bulk. I’ve got about 75-85 engines to retrofit with these, but you can even cut one shaft off with a Dremel and put them in Rivarossi steamers and even old brass steam from PFM and United. They’re pretty versatile.
Do you have a part number for those?
I've used those exact motors to replace the drivetrain in my first run Proto 2000 E8's. The old drivetrain was extremely noisy, but with these motors and Athearn 1 piece driveshafts they are near silent.
You don't by chance have the link for those on eBay?
@@jeremyjohnsom9672 Unfortunately that reseller no longer lists them and I'm having trouble finding them again. They are however basically identical to a Kato HM-5 at $25/each. I would not be surprised if they are identical and came from the same factory with differnt packaging.
Great video! Those motors seem pretty good. Got a nice slow speed on that old AHM engine.
I buy these cheap can motors all the time from eBay. Nice work!
Wish I could find them lol
Huh Ebay motors... I didnt know they sold motors there but I shouldn't be surprised anyway because its Ebay. Well hopefully they work...
This video is very helpful 👍 great job smt.
I wonder if the post office is subscribed to you. “This guy gets a lot of stuff. Big and small. I wonder what he gets..”
It's now an F7R. I bought some China made motors with flywheels and installed one in my Athearn SD40-2. The improvement is very noticeable. I got 4 more to install once I figure out which of my old boys needs new motors.
what website to find these motors?
@@frankb5686 eBay under the search of: 5pcs/Lot 1/87 Train Model Ho Scale 12V Motor 12500RPM Including Flywheel. There are many sellers, most from China companies. There are different sizes for certain models except switchers.
Great video topic, this is something that has crossed my mind. Great work!
There was a Horizons Hobby shop that operated out of Hamilton ON 20 or more years ago. Used to see them at train shows in Golden Horeshoe area.
Good job!
I’m glad you got that old ahm to run 🙂🙂🙂
Amber Shuck "AHM" (Associated Hobby Manufacturers) of Philadelphia, not "aam"
Whoops sorry typo
Hey now this is good to know. Heck i was wondering if RC car dc motors would work difference is the locomotive would run way to fast or slow. Awesome tip and review! Also nice repair job you did a great job fixing it.
That’s dope, should making adding DCC much easier especially with a Loksound 5 decoder
Certainly. They're much more efficient so there is less risk of burning out the decoder.
If you add DCC, add a "Stay Alive" to keep the motor turning when the wheels lose electrical contact
@SMTMainline You can use the ESU Powerpack Mini with a ESU Loksound 5 Decoder. Greatings from Berlin.
Nice work. Doesn't have to look pretty on the inside as long as it runs.
Needs a flywheel and a weight load to make it really go but those are nice motors, I bought five.
A flywheel would improve this loco a lot.
Nice upgrade!
They were good motors good luck finding them now they have been discontinued
Do you know why they quit making them?
@SMTMainline no have no idea. They were pretty good. I did find some 5 pole duel shaft motors that will handle up to 24v at 12v about 11000 rpm only issue is the size of the shafts they are only 5.5. mm .I just used two in my model power conversions a and b units. Running both motors on a soundtraxx dcc decoder . You can see how they run .I put a video up.
The amount of times this man says uh when he's speaking is insane. 😂
Of coursecthey can. The body shells AHM, produced in the 70's can't be reproduced now, but with some improvements, they could be turned into world class models. I dunno bout modern controls, and sound systems, but what the hell, nobody's perfect.
Hey SMT! I recently saw a bc heritage unit for the CN. I think the number was 4622 but I’m not sure. Just wanted to share that!
I was hoping to see the pulling capacity of the new motor. 😊
I just bought a Walthers UPS engine 1907 which I can't any info on. It was five dollars and very clean but missing the motor and front trucks.
Have you heard the ballad of the southern pacific. I believe it's called southern pacific roll on
Great for old athearn diesels and some others using open frame motors. 2
Five pole and skew wound? They outta be pretty good!!! And on the bulb in that old F unit...replace it with an LED and a resistor. The Ohms and wattage of the resistor would vary based on (1) input voltage, (2) LED voltage drop, and (3) LED current desired, in milliamps. You would probably select about a 15 volt inout voltage, the average of an LED voltage drop is about 1.4 volts, with about a 20-30 milliamp current draw. Based on those specs, a resistor would be about a 470 Ohm resistor, at least 1/2 watt rating.
A good calculator can be found here:
www.quickar.com/bestledcalc.php
I replace lamps in locos with LED's and resistors as often as possible, given that bulbs eventually burn out, and will burn out faster when driven with voltage over their rating. An LED with a proper resistor installed won't have that problem. And...you can now get LED's so small that they can be used even as those small light at the rear of a loco, caboose lights, or as ditch lights.
That said...great job with that motor replacement, Harrison!!!!
That gives minimum resistor value and maximum LED current rating, which is way too bright. I suggest 1.5k or 1.8k as a better value for the resistor. This reduces LED current to 1/2 or even 1/3 of max rating, a dimmer LED that is still realistically bright, and greatly extends life of the LED. You will likely wear out the loco's motor before the headlight quits. Also, older type (1950's-1990) locomotives you may want to use "Warm White" LEDs. Newer type locos (1990 to present) use "Pure White" LEDs. This is like the older yellowish car headlights vs. newer pure white headlights, and the same is true of loco headlights.
Do you have a link for these?
since you showed off your broken CN locomotive. it reminded me that I saw a GP-40-2L(w) the other day in my little town of Kenova, West Virginia. one in the coal factory company colors and one still wearing it CN colors. their web site even says there from Canada. which was cool for me as I never saw that design in person for GP-40's but because of the CN look and design I knew just where they came from lol and if it wasn't for your channel I probably wouldn't have know what the CN railroad logo would look like
You could technically throw some flywheels onto it and it would basically be able to replace most athearn blue box and rtr locomotives
I have to replace the motor in my Golden Eagle with the motor from my Silver streak which has more life in it
Angry railfan .....there’s a video that I seen that shows how to install a motor from a PS3 controller into a Tyco locomotive. I was shocked to see how similar it looks.
can you send a link to the listing? I may pick a few up as well
Do a search on Ebay for "5 pole 12v motor" without specifying a category. You should see quite a few listings for these.
I just searched for "12 volt motor" and several results came up. They're not hard to come across there.
Nice video, maybe you could put one in the Blue Goose.
It’s big brain time
I really can't see how much more you'd improve the conversion. Maybe less hot glue? Small pieces of wood might even work to get it in there, but I'm not really sure. It runs great, though. Very neat and most likely worth while experiment. The one thing that worries me is the quality. As you said, you don't know what kind of brushes and whatnot they have.
@@NortheasternP.T.S. Exactly. It very well may come to that. Is the old motor much better? Most likely, considering it was made for the purpose of pulling rolling stock, etc.
You're up late! Great project, it looks like it worked out good.
Micro Mark also sells cheap motors too..
Hope you got your money back for the deluxe shipping 🤨
Be careful with these cheap motors on Locomotives. If the motor doesn't have a stall ability in the case of derailment or wheel jam the motor will continue to spin and shred the gears and motor couplers right off lol. Learned this through experience, when you test the motor before installing get a good hold of the shaft and see if you can stop it from spinning, if you can't stop the shaft then just be careful with it while running.
Might you remember where you got the motors on eBay? If so, just wondering if you might add the link to your description?
The listing was removed but there are countless others. Just look for 12v duel shaft motors.
@@SMTMainline thank you very gratefully
does that small pensylvania loco run? I Have the exact same train with its box and rolling stock still, but mines i had to do a complete rebuild on, it had a broken tender connector at the metal side, so i was wonder
5 pole skew wound on eBay are up to $12.00 US NOW ....
Yikes
Good job smt I like it 😊
Are these motors still out there; looking for them but not finding them.
SMT is like the model train NRE
Buying motors off eBay and putting them in your locomotives? You are one brave soul.
Where did you find the motors
If you wanted to mount Athearn flywheels is shaft diameter compatible? I believe original Blue box shaft diameter is 3mm.
Thast is the rub now, isn't it? Finding them with the shaft diameter needed.
Nice!
Smt thumbnail: motors
Me: rivarossi blue goose + new motor x Smt says on discord he bought new motor for the blue goose = the blue goose restoration
I did buy a motor for the blue goose but I picked one with a gear reduction and it's far too slow now.
I have an old Mantua Tyco 4-6-2 steam engine that I really like. The electric motor runs considerably slower going forward than in reverse. Where can I get a new motor for it? Who sells one that would work?
Wow amazing
Is the any links or specific keywords to get these?
Yaaaaaay your the best
No joke There is this train shop and all there trains are cheap. I got 3 trains for a total of 35.69 dollars
That sounds pretty good.
Ik, but it is pretty far to get there
Great video thank you. What temperature do you set your soldering iron for when soldering DCC boards, small wires and decoders etc?
I did this with my RSO locomotives, because their factory motors are wicked bad
Hello can you tell me where on EBay you found the motors please ? Dave in the UK
I would but they don't seem to sell them anymore.
How well do you think these motors would work with DCC?
They would probably be okay since they are 5 poles with low current draw.
Hi SMT mainline i just want to ask where do you get you music from that is in your videos is it a website and if so what website is it.
It's mostly from the youtube music library. I usually pick calm as a mood.
Great video as usual. What is the name etc to look for on ebay?
I just googled "12 volt motor" on Ebay and it was the first result. I can give you a link to the seller however there is like 100 of them selling the same kind at basically the same price.
Thanks for your reply. I managed to find them.
@@SMTMainline let me try to Google
@@SMTMainline couldn't find these exact help me lol plz lol
Hi smt mainline you are amazing man that I care about
Cool
I have an vintage Air Force locomotive from Bachman and runs well!
Lol a lot of people in the discord guessed you would buy cheap stuff off of eBay
Señores: habría que ver en una exhibición, con horas de marcha, en otro modelo más pesado, arrastrando un buen convoy, a ver cómo se comporta. Estos los venden como Kato, y un motor Kato original costaba como $ 40 en el sitio de ellos. Pero estos...¿serán originales? lo dudo. Made in China de seguro. En fin, uno obtiene resultados por el precio que paga.
If only you could find old tyco pole motors you know so I can replace the one in my silver streak if I need to
At least these will be good if I ever get a compatible engine that can take them
Try E-Bay. They're often sold in lots with other motors and parts for cheep, cheep
Very cool only if o scale could be that simple lol.
Could this work for 0 gauge
Do you have a link, or a specific search term to find these on eBay?
Type "12 volt motor" on ebay, you'll find em'
that produced 37,000 results many of which were giant industrial motors costing hundreds of dollars, I gave up until I get more definite search terms
search 12v 5 pole motor, and don't set a category. If for some reason you get a large number of results, then set a filter for under $8, and sort by lowest price. You should find them.
Here is one result for example: www.ebay.com.au/itm/DC-12V-24V-High-Speed-5-Pole-Rotor-Micro-20mm-Motor-Dual-2mm-Shaft-DIY-Car-Boat/263905118204?hash=item3d71f887fc:g:D7kAAOSwk6dbiKDy
hi smt would you be interested in fixing one of my old steam engines
Add some fly wheels.
Wait what would happen if you put 2 motors init
If you could fit and link them you would gain double the power but it's less efficient and you would need to add a lot of weight otherwise wheel slip would make the added power useless.
SMT Mainline ohhhh so not speed up
You will enjoy a cheap 3D printer,I bet in less than a week you can design custom pieces in tinkercad.
They look just like Kato motors
Sams trains used the same motors
How long they will last is the real question but as long as they work that’s all that matters I might have to get some for my shit
They seem like they’re decent quality.
Well folks in today's video we are...
No Longer available on eBay.
I noticed that 😑
SMT do you know if you can put them in dummy trains?
Probably so depending on the make although you would still need the rest of the drive system which would probably be expensive.
@@SMTMainline ok i was just wondering thx
Ya know you really wouldn’t expect a small cheap motor to do that well it really is a shocker
Quality is part of it but also just the design. 5 pole motors perform better for model trains since they can produce more torque and can do a better low speed.
can you put a link to this motor
They don't seem to sell them anymore. You can find similar motors if you look up "Duel shaft, 12 volt train motor"
@@SMTMainline ok thanks
Well, that victory was short lived....
@@PapaMav Kinda. I found a similar motor which I plan to test soon.
Do you know what the name of the motor are
Just go on Ebay and type "12 volt motor" they're not hard to find.
Only 20 minutes to open the package!
What’s the eBay item number?
Of course by the time I went to buy these seller refunded and said not available. Anyone have a lead on these?
I got a loco that needs a moter
One like equals one agreement that these cheap motors might actually be pretty good.😃😀😀😃