Regarding the mess, I put a large aluminum baking sheet under my mill. Drilled the bolt holes through it and sealed around them with RTV. The local restaurant supply store had them 3ft x 2 1/2 ft.
@@shootgp - the Channel owner will know what I mean. They are large folded steel trays available from any Auto Parts store here in Australia. They are used to prevent thr oil leaks from American cars from staining concrete floors.
I think the chatter problem you experienced was related to the flood coolant having less lubricity than the oils you previously used. Some water soluble coolants are more grippy than an oil you would brush on, some are not. Usually, the more expensive water soluble coolants have better lubricity. Sometimes you can improve the lubricity by increasing the concentration past what the recommended value is, i.e. 15% versus 7%. Even if you “solve” the chatter problem with higher rpms, you are likely better off increasing the lubricity of the coolant by upping the concentration anyway, as it will result in less tool wear.
I think it could even have more lubricity for the task, and the mill wasn't rigid enough to push the endmill in. I also get chatter on a mini lathe because the tool prefers to slide until it bites into the material.
Good video, I like how you pointed out the inherent problems with the mist coolant systems and breathing it. For me chip evacuation is the problem especially with smaller end mills in deeper pockets. I use compressed air for chip evacuation and an occasional squirt from a spray bottle for lubrication. A cardboard shield will stop the hot chips from hitting you. My air compressors are set outside the building for noise and cooling.
Im currently experimenting cooling systems myself. I'm using mist at the moment, but as you mentioned, the compressed air situation is less than awesome and I've got a pump system that will be replacing mist on at least the mill, and likely the lathe as well. As note on coolants, in my humble experience, the water soluble synthetics are just no good. They seem to want to cause rust. I bit the bullet and bought one of the oil based emulsion coolants and it's fantastic. Still mixes with water, but once the water evaporates the oil base stays behind and leaves a nice protective film on the machine. I've seen no rust with the oil emulsion, and at this point would run dry rather than put a water based soluble on the machine. The oil based emulsion also lubricates, so im able to take much heavier cuts and get a much better surface finish. Awesome vid, as always!
I fully agree with your comments on oil based vs. synthetic emulsions. It might be different for those big CNC machining centers that pump gallons of coolant at high pressure, but for us small shop people oil based stuff is better by far.
It'll be interesting to see if the coolant damages the pump. In my service engineer days I used pond pumps and aquarium pumps with pure kerosene and it 'rotted' them over time. The 'over time' was still long enough that it was a far cheaper alternative to the machine manufacturer's replacement pump if it had been available... Which it usually wasn't. Given their prices and easy availability it's not really an issue as long as you accept that the pump is a consumable.
We used a washing machine drain pump on a large parts washer at one of the places I used to work. That system had a 200lt drum full of kerosene and that pump ran probably 6 hours a day 5 days a week. We cleaned wet brake components for large earthmoving machines. That pump lasted a couple of years and costed in the region of $15.
@@Bosbulls It's one of those things where you think to yourself "Well... I'm no plasticologist but what's the worst that can happen". Well... That's what I thought anyway. My pond-pump bodge would last about a year and the appallingly badly made genuine article would last a couple of years at over ten times the price.
Solder follows the heat. Heat the part from the opposite side from where you are applying the solder and it will flow around. Blasting it straight on will just burn it. Also on the subject of stainless: sharp tools, slow speeds and high pressure is the way to go. Stainless work hardens in an instance so a blunt center drill will create a hard spot in a millisecond if you don't keep pushing it and make chips.
Seems to work fine. I don't solder much so the vise has always worked. Plus I have lighting set up for filming the vise so it's easiest for me to use it.
@@artisanmakes I mean, it machines fine. You just have to be on your toes and not hesitate. But a carbide spotting drill would probably have helped there. But they’re expensive. I don’t use them personally. Try heating the part from behind sometime though and use plenty of flux with the part on a fire brick instead of in the vise. I think you’ll find that it saves you a lot of work and comes out both cleaner and with a higher chance of actually being water/gas tight.
Clever setup! 👍 You could try putting a stainless pot scourer in the trough on your mill table, it will let the coolant drain through but will catch most of the chips keeping them out of the pipes and funnel and the scourer can be removed and rinsed clean in seconds. And yeah, that coolant looks way too dilute... Too watery. How is its lube properties? It should feel really oily and greasy rubbed between your fingers, if it feels watery and your fingers stick then it's a bad lubricant.
Have you considered adding a small wall/gutter on the outside of your table? Would only add a few millimeters and keep all the coolant on the table. Granted some will still fly around the place when you mill at higher speeds. Also at 15:10 when you're milling steel, if that cut in particular was iffy I suspect it might be because the flow of coolant might be preventing your chips from exiting the cut. My experience when playing around was that the chips get extra sticky with coolant, so you really need to aim the coolant to help the chips move away from the cut direction. That's just my 2 cents anyway, really like your videos.
Cut a circle out of a piece of scotch bright and put in on top of the screen in the funnel. It will capture quite a bit of the small particles that will eventually eat the pump up.
Looks good Mate. I used a low pressure fuel pump £10, a motor controller £8.50 and a gerry can £12. The gerry can has a small foot-print so doesn't take up a lot of room. The motor controller is mounted in the mill control panel and goes from a dribble to a full gush.
Love your videos, I'm not a machinist but have some knowledge of aquaculture and I have some small cheap tips that might increase the longevity of your pump. A nylon stocking over the pump is a good way to stop grit from wearing out the impeller (cheap ripstop, your grandma will have some). There are cheap and efficient floatswiches that you can mount in tubs to stop the pump from running dry. Most aquaponic/pond shops have them. A rough paintstrainer for the funnel is easier to clean than the metal net in the funnel.
In my limited experience dealing with coolant, emulsified oils tend to look very milky. This is a semi synthetic and it is my first time using it. This could be what it should look like. Granted I am only mixing it at just over 6% concentration.
@@artisanmakes 6% is really enough when it comes to preventing tool wear. Higher concentration nearly only improves longevity and corrosion prevention. Even pure water gives very good results, but corrosion becomes a problem in the long run.
@@schrauberhugo2594 I figured as much. Honestly I only went above the 5% concentration recommendation was to give me a bit of time before ill need to look at the coolant concentration. Just have to wait for my refractometer to turn up first. Cheers.
@@artisanmakes your pump probably has a filter that removes all of the oil content from your coolant while you are cutting. even a very thin stream of emulsified coolant should have a white tint.
You should add a screen/filter to the funnel or a screen divider in the tank to help protect your pump life. Also it would be easier to clean those screens than pulling out the pump to clean/unclog.
I was thinking the same thing, maybe a larger diameter 3D printed ring with a fine screen inset thats removable it will sit higher in the funnel when its not running pull the screen and blow out the build up into a trash can and replace it, it's an added laye of protection for the coolant,pump and associated parts
This guy never backs down from a challenge!! It's truly good to see someone who tries to make smaller machinery work better. Good job on the workaround! Curious what product you used before coolant? Like what was it and where did you get it? I'm in Canada and would like a spray bottle solution for now.
The black tub is good for keeping light out, so that helps avoid algae growth. If this is going to sit unused much of the week you may want to add an aquarium bubbler to keep the coolant oxygenated and suppress anaerobic growth.
Looking great, I would suggest to help with splashes. A shield to make sure it all flows into the drainage would work. Similar to the shield idea you were thinking before to protect against chips. Also do you have any idea what the other brand names are for this mill? I want to get it but it seems really tough to find in the UK .
Great video dude been meaning to make a setup like this for a while. I recon it will help with chip evacuation as well. Again great video brilliant budget setup 👍
The trick with 316 SS is to just push through in one go. It has really good work hardening properties, so it’s quick to harden and dull bits. Make sure you run the HSS drill 100-300 rpm I’ve found.
I built a setup not dissimilar to yours and it worked very well indeed. I used an oil based emulsion though. On aluminum it worked as well or better than kerosene without the horrible smell.
Would it not be a good idea to incorporate a magnet trap somewhere in the system, even if it's just a big old speaker magnet chucked in the box? Obviously it'll only work for iron/steel filings but they're probably the most damaging.
Now that you’ve installed a flood coolant systems, can you still use oil from time to time.? Or do you have to use only coolant now? Seem like oil would contaminate the coolant. Thanks for the all the vids. They’re spot on,.
1:06 and it does another thing too, which i've never heard anybody talk about ,namely it makes it so much easier for your lungs to breath in al that crap from the coolant now that is floating and linger arround for longer
A simple (but not so elegant) solution to “clear the back of the vise” would be to simply make the fixed jaw thicker. Determine the smallest size endmill you will use and use that to determine how much thicker the rear jaw needs to be for sufficient overhang. -Ben
Nice project. I went through the same process when I first got into machining. The mess it produced was not worth the trouble. I discovered that using really thick cutting oil was the answer. The honey-like consistency holds the oil in place. Bobs your uncle!
Hassle factor: high, Coolant effect for HSS: needed, Mess factor: high, Need to replenish and filter coolant: high, effect on cutting performance: improved a little, Negative effect of water on cast iron: high Conclusion: Use carbide mills and skip the flood coolant. They handle the higher RPM's and heat just fine and you don't need the coolant at all for hobby use. For drilling and tapping, use a little oil. *** I've a got a slightly larger set up than you, but not by much. I use carbide mills exclusively. From time to time I'll put some oil on the mill IF I am machining aluminum since it adheres to carbide. All the rest, I machine it bone dry and my mills either break or I wear them out after many hours of use. *** Hot metal chips, you did solve that problem, but then so do thin leather gloves and a long sleeved shirt!
Good video but a couple of things, You can buy a flexible coolant hose with a tap and magnetic base very cheap, saves the extra work. I just bought one for $12. Your coolant isn't right 1 to 18 = 19 parts, 1÷19= 5.2% that's not enough and the reason it's not milky. I'd put another satchel in it doubling it to 10% our machine shop runs 10% to 15% minimum. I think 18 litres of water for what your need is overkill.
I ended up adding another satchel, just for peace of mind. I emailed the manufacturer and they were pretty adamant that one satchel per 20l was fine for lathe and mill work but I wasn't too happy with how it was performing
Yeah right... Kerosene..!!! The ONE important factor that you have not addressed - is - the fact that your coolant fluid, is actually a "cutting" fluid, loaded with EP additives that will improve your tool engagement with the job.
You could buy mastercam and be dynamic(tm) with your manual tools. Then the chips dont get hot. We use aquarium air pumps at work to keep the coolant from smelling. Air kills the bacteria or somethingsomething.
Each shop I've worked at throughout my life I always try and convince the boss that it is against my religion to work with Stainless Steel, but nobody has bought it yet. All S.S. will work harden super easily and super fast, and 316 is one of the worst, if I can get away with it I always try to use 303SS, it's damn near butter compared to the others, that and never put oil on it while machining, it will definitely harden, try and use a water soluble coolant that turns milky when mixed or even the blue cool mist solution you run in those misters works really good in a cup and brush it on and a gallon jug when mixed correctly will last a whole year
I am going to buy 5 gallons of hydraulic oil and use that. The good, it wont evaporate, more good, I can ad in other types of oil such as cutting oil and it should mix in just fine. I can DIY a filter for it that will take out 99% of fine particles. I just need to figure out what type, or just buy the cheapest real oil I can find and try it. I'll just use a drain back system and cheap pump and use the 5 gallon pail it comes in.
You might look into Sicce pumps. They are found most in the aquarium trade. Top notch pumps come in many configurations to meet your needs. Aquarium pumps are typically much better quality than pond pumps.
Great info! I've had a mist cooling system for a long time but don't use it any more because of the fog. Some of the things in my current shop don't need to be exposed to coolant mist. I had to mill some 1-1/4" (32mm) deep x 5/16" (8mm) wide slots in the past few days and all I had for a lube/coolant was WD-40. It took a whole can to do the job. I was wishing for a drip or low flow flood system the entire time. FWIW, your compressor should be more than big enough for mist coolant. It looked in the early video that you had a LOT of air flow driving the mister, as in far too much. It only takes a little mist to do the job.
I am setting up an identical system. Identical pond pump (as I had one lying around) in a bucket. I still need to add the strainer before installing it onto the machines. Mine will be a common tank to the mill and lathe. I have 1/4 and 1/2 inch flexy pipes to try, to see which gives the better coolant placement. But previously running with a spray of kero, I was burning up HSS mills like crazy. Changing to a hand oil/water spray dramatically improved tool life. So lookink forward to trying the flood cooling.
I was researching this the other day as I am preparing shopping list to get mill etc and what I want. It's interesting cooling is not so straightforward. Mist is considered iffy, heat cycling is likely. Dry with some of the modern coatings (if feeds etc right) is recommended. Flood is ok, if you ensure flood is done right and actually cooling the bit, chips or even not enough flood can be worse (the flood burns off before it reaches the actual tool). Coating wise if doing aluminium, avoid coatings with aluminium in them. I am planning dry with air for chip removal, I won't be using it often and the flood tank and mess etc is more effort than its probably going save me. Google flood vs none mill there are plenty of good forums with heaps of information that actually convinced me not to bother with flood for what intended diy use I will do. If you look at Tormac systems (there popular on RUclips :) ) or high end cnc videos, they use multi jets with some pressure (not dribble).
Use cobalt steel bits for stainless, they work much better than high speed steel. The trick is to use plenty of downforce, otherwise the tool will rub and work harden the surface. I've had to use solid carbide for stainless before, I hated drilling and tapping it.
I cannot work out how you clean up all the chips. Don't they get all sticky and clumped up and make a massive mess? For example, how to you clear out around and under the vice?
I haven't read through all the comments mate but it occurs t'me that if you put a tee junction in the feed line and return part of the feed coolant back into the tank via a fuel line tap like y'find on some lawn mowers the diaphragm pump might last a bit longer. Cheers and like the checkout chicks say over the pond: "Have a nice day".
I have a similar magnetic set up for my mini lathe but it’s gravity fed by a 2Lt PET bottle that I hook up about a metre over the lathe. I successfully converted my drill press to a light mill so now I’ll move my rig over there as well. Every little bit helps. …luv y’work.
If you remove the fan and light assembly from a range hood you scab from a cabinet makers it fits perfectly around a mill of that size as a chip try when inverted. Stainless, and free.
The oil based emulsion coolants are not that healty, in my country it's under investigation due to employee allergic reaction. The supplier does not want to tell what raw materials are in the product. Whatever cooling system you use, it is always better to have good air extraction. I use myself a spattersystem with a vegetarian oil.
might be able to put a small plastic dam up on the outside edge of the vice (where you normally bold the beaks to to grab larger pieces , should guide the coolant toward the sides of the vice before it runs beyond the table , might stop a little of the splattering towarths the operator too
A drilled hole big enough for the power cord, followed by an X-cut, will allow you to feed the power cord through without cutting the rim of the tank lid.
For my diy setup I used a 5 gallon parts washer for the tank and pump. They go on sale here in Canada for about $60.00. In the end, I found it easier/cleaner to just use carbide end mills. They are more expensive, but they take the heat far better than H.S.S., and last longer, so I only use the coolant now for the most demanding jobs. (stainless, titanium)
Most coolants tend to leave an oily mist on everything in the surrounding area if you don’t use an enclosure. Plus there are health concerns with regards to the atomised oil in the mist.
I know it may cost some of your Z height, but have you considered a fixture plate for the mill table? It could add some versatility to your vise setup and could act as sort of a screen for keeping chips out of the T-slots when the coolant starts flowing. Then again, it could just provide a larger mess for coolant runoff 😅
According to most trade standards, you can label anything (oil, solvent, reagent etc) that contains more than 30% synthetic main active components fully "synthetic" :) Good work! There SHOULD be something to help lubricate that coolant product, check with the manufacturer.... Also, I'd get a smaller nozzle for the flex head. A smaller stream is easier to "aim", and you dont need to have the head as close to the cutter as you do with a larger, slow flowing nozzle.
You could quite easiely add .35 liter more coolant oil since adding 1 liter to 18 liter giver you little more than 5% 1.35 liter gives you 7%. Also think it looks to clear. Otherwise if you are going to change out the fluid calculate the oil you have to the percentage what you want. So for 7% 1liter/7 then for the water take (1l/7)x93. It becomes like 13.28 liter so 13.5 will set the level a bit under 7%. Also when i worked in a shop we always mixed the coolant in 15l or 30l buckets. Then poured it in the coolant tanks and machines.
It seems to look a little low but this is more concentrated that the manufacturers guide. Ill probably play around with it in the future since I am coming into this with little experience dealing with semi synthetics.
If you're looking for carbide inserts to cut plastic(to simplify things), look at the super high positive inserts used for aluminum. Koroloy brand has a good selection of shapes/sizes.
I filmed all this a while back. I do have a few aluminium inserts but I'm unimpressed with them. They are just too brittle for a lot of stuff I do. HSS just works out to be better. Cheets
Love the setup! glad to see more coolant in your work, ive found adjusting the shutoff valve half way or till you find the sweet spot helps with 'low flow' or getting more pressure out of the nozzle, it seems to help move the chips better. like on the older haas machines ive been on i had to find that sweet spot of pressure and flow, keep up the good work man 👍youre my fave youtube machinist
That coolant on the mill at the end, certainly looks just like water.. I thought that once you mixed this stuff, it stayed in suspension.. what''s happening there?
You need a oil skimmer , magnet and a much better filter on the intake side of the pump. Experiment with a rubber disk around the base of the vice. Shaped as a shallow cup with a drain tube. This will capture the coolant before it runs on the base. One other thing. With a magnet glued to a clear plastic sheet in front to keep you from getting coolant splashed on you.
Thanks, I have that oil skimming paper and that's doing a good job. And having a sheet is easier said than done, especially when I have cameras and studio lights set up. Cheers. I'll have to take up that magnet trick though
Put the pump in a fine mesh container to prevent swarf from getting suck in. The pump at the bottom is the worst place it could be to suck up contaminants.
Check out t.o.t (this old tony) video here on the tube about a mill vise he made. It uses the mill bed as the vise base. I think it would be beneficial to you. 👍
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Regarding the mess, I put a large aluminum baking sheet under my mill. Drilled the bolt holes through it and sealed around them with RTV. The local restaurant supply store had them 3ft x 2 1/2 ft.
Just use the trays that you put under cars with oil drips.
@@johncoops6897 Not sure I know what you're referring to. The baking sheets work great and only cost me $7 USD.
@@shootgp - the Channel owner will know what I mean. They are large folded steel trays available from any Auto Parts store here in Australia. They are used to prevent thr oil leaks from American cars from staining concrete floors.
@@johncoops6897 what about Australian ca... oh, yeah. Buggar.
I think the chatter problem you experienced was related to the flood coolant having less lubricity than the oils you previously used. Some water soluble coolants are more grippy than an oil you would brush on, some are not. Usually, the more expensive water soluble coolants have better lubricity. Sometimes you can improve the lubricity by increasing the concentration past what the recommended value is, i.e. 15% versus 7%. Even if you “solve” the chatter problem with higher rpms, you are likely better off increasing the lubricity of the coolant by upping the concentration anyway, as it will result in less tool wear.
I think it could even have more lubricity for the task, and the mill wasn't rigid enough to push the endmill in. I also get chatter on a mini lathe because the tool prefers to slide until it bites into the material.
Good video, I like how you pointed out the inherent problems with the mist coolant systems and breathing it. For me chip evacuation is the problem especially with smaller end mills in deeper pockets. I use compressed air for chip evacuation and an occasional squirt from a spray bottle for lubrication. A cardboard shield will stop the hot chips from hitting you. My air compressors are set outside the building for noise and cooling.
Main lesson learned for me is that different cooling systems result in different feeds and speeds. Makes sense, though. Thanks!
Im currently experimenting cooling systems myself. I'm using mist at the moment, but as you mentioned, the compressed air situation is less than awesome and I've got a pump system that will be replacing mist on at least the mill, and likely the lathe as well. As note on coolants, in my humble experience, the water soluble synthetics are just no good. They seem to want to cause rust. I bit the bullet and bought one of the oil based emulsion coolants and it's fantastic. Still mixes with water, but once the water evaporates the oil base stays behind and leaves a nice protective film on the machine. I've seen no rust with the oil emulsion, and at this point would run dry rather than put a water based soluble on the machine. The oil based emulsion also lubricates, so im able to take much heavier cuts and get a much better surface finish. Awesome vid, as always!
I fully agree with your comments on oil based vs. synthetic emulsions. It might be different for those big CNC machining centers that pump gallons of coolant at high pressure, but for us small shop people oil based stuff is better by far.
Thanks for the tip. 👍🙂
It'll be interesting to see if the coolant damages the pump. In my service engineer days I used pond pumps and aquarium pumps with pure kerosene and it 'rotted' them over time. The 'over time' was still long enough that it was a far cheaper alternative to the machine manufacturer's replacement pump if it had been available... Which it usually wasn't.
Given their prices and easy availability it's not really an issue as long as you accept that the pump is a consumable.
Try a scrapyard for a Diesel fuel pump.
We used a washing machine drain pump on a large parts washer at one of the places I used to work.
That system had a 200lt drum full of kerosene and that pump ran probably 6 hours a day 5 days a week. We cleaned wet brake components for large earthmoving machines.
That pump lasted a couple of years and costed in the region of $15.
@@Bosbulls It's one of those things where you think to yourself "Well... I'm no plasticologist but what's the worst that can happen". Well... That's what I thought anyway.
My pond-pump bodge would last about a year and the appallingly badly made genuine article would last a couple of years at over ten times the price.
Solder follows the heat. Heat the part from the opposite side from where you are applying the solder and it will flow around. Blasting it straight on will just burn it.
Also on the subject of stainless: sharp tools, slow speeds and high pressure is the way to go. Stainless work hardens in an instance so a blunt center drill will create a hard spot in a millisecond if you don't keep pushing it and make chips.
Yeah I forgot how much i disliked machining stainless, especially 316
You cannot really solder properly with the part tightly clamped in a dirty great big heatsink (vice)
Seems to work fine. I don't solder much so the vise has always worked. Plus I have lighting set up for filming the vise so it's easiest for me to use it.
@@artisanmakes I mean, it machines fine. You just have to be on your toes and not hesitate. But a carbide spotting drill would probably have helped there. But they’re expensive. I don’t use them personally.
Try heating the part from behind sometime though and use plenty of flux with the part on a fire brick instead of in the vise. I think you’ll find that it saves you a lot of work and comes out both cleaner and with a higher chance of actually being water/gas tight.
Clever setup! 👍
You could try putting a stainless pot scourer in the trough on your mill table, it will let the coolant drain through but will catch most of the chips keeping them out of the pipes and funnel and the scourer can be removed and rinsed clean in seconds.
And yeah, that coolant looks way too dilute... Too watery. How is its lube properties? It should feel really oily and greasy rubbed between your fingers, if it feels watery and your fingers stick then it's a bad lubricant.
Have you considered adding a small wall/gutter on the outside of your table? Would only add a few millimeters and keep all the coolant on the table.
Granted some will still fly around the place when you mill at higher speeds.
Also at 15:10 when you're milling steel, if that cut in particular was iffy I suspect it might be because the flow of coolant might be preventing your chips from exiting the cut.
My experience when playing around was that the chips get extra sticky with coolant, so you really need to aim the coolant to help the chips move away from the cut direction.
That's just my 2 cents anyway, really like your videos.
Consider DIYing a band saw! I do enjoy your videos and I've used several of your ideas myself. You REALLY need a band saw!
I'd have put a NE magnet in the coolant reservoir just get all the fine swarf that passes the initial filter. Great video tho.
Totally useless with s/steel though.
Cut a circle out of a piece of scotch bright and put in on top of the screen in the funnel. It will capture quite a bit of the small particles that will eventually eat the pump up.
Looks good Mate. I used a low pressure fuel pump £10, a motor controller £8.50 and a gerry can £12. The gerry can has a small foot-print so doesn't take up a lot of room. The motor controller is mounted in the mill control panel and goes from a dribble to a full gush.
Love your videos, I'm not a machinist but have some knowledge of aquaculture and I have some small cheap tips that might increase the longevity of your pump.
A nylon stocking over the pump is a good way to stop grit from wearing out the impeller (cheap ripstop, your grandma will have some).
There are cheap and efficient floatswiches that you can mount in tubs to stop the pump from running dry. Most aquaponic/pond shops have them.
A rough paintstrainer for the funnel is easier to clean than the metal net in the funnel.
Thanks for the tips. I will use them when I implement my coolant system.
Nicely done! In my experience, the coolant should be a little bit more "milky", but maybe I'm wrong who knows. Great little project
That depends on the kind of coolant: emulsions are milky, solutions are transparent and only light tinted.
In my limited experience dealing with coolant, emulsified oils tend to look very milky. This is a semi synthetic and it is my first time using it. This could be what it should look like. Granted I am only mixing it at just over 6% concentration.
@@artisanmakes 6% is really enough when it comes to preventing tool wear. Higher concentration nearly only improves longevity and corrosion prevention. Even pure water gives very good results, but corrosion becomes a problem in the long run.
@@schrauberhugo2594 I figured as much. Honestly I only went above the 5% concentration recommendation was to give me a bit of time before ill need to look at the coolant concentration. Just have to wait for my refractometer to turn up first. Cheers.
@@artisanmakes your pump probably has a filter that removes all of the oil content from your coolant while you are cutting. even a very thin stream of emulsified coolant should have a white tint.
You should add a screen/filter to the funnel or a screen divider in the tank to help protect your pump life. Also it would be easier to clean those screens than pulling out the pump to clean/unclog.
I was thinking the same thing, maybe a larger diameter 3D printed ring with a fine screen inset thats removable it will sit higher in the funnel when its not running pull the screen and blow out the build up into a trash can and replace it, it's an added laye of protection for the coolant,pump and associated parts
That coolant looks like water. I wonder what the refractometer says.
He added the cutting oil to the water as per instructions. Surely that would suffice..!!!
This guy never backs down from a challenge!! It's truly good to see someone who tries to make smaller machinery work better. Good job on the workaround! Curious what product you used before coolant? Like what was it and where did you get it? I'm in Canada and would like a spray bottle solution for now.
The black tub is good for keeping light out, so that helps avoid algae growth. If this is going to sit unused much of the week you may want to add an aquarium bubbler to keep the coolant oxygenated and suppress anaerobic growth.
Thank you, certainly something to consider
@@artisanmakes don't forget to give it fish flakes too
Looking great, I would suggest to help with splashes. A shield to make sure it all flows into the drainage would work. Similar to the shield idea you were thinking before to protect against chips.
Also do you have any idea what the other brand names are for this mill? I want to get it but it seems really tough to find in the UK .
Yeah definitely I have a shield but it makes filming much harder.
@@artisanmakes Fair :D
Great video dude been meaning to make a setup like this for a while. I recon it will help with chip evacuation as well. Again great video brilliant budget setup 👍
The trick with 316 SS is to just push through in one go. It has really good work hardening properties, so it’s quick to harden and dull bits. Make sure you run the HSS drill 100-300 rpm I’ve found.
I built a setup not dissimilar to yours and it worked very well indeed. I used an oil based emulsion though. On aluminum it worked as well or better than kerosene without the horrible smell.
Great video!You should add one more pack of that oil and it would be ok.
Would it not be a good idea to incorporate a magnet trap somewhere in the system, even if it's just a big old speaker magnet chucked in the box? Obviously it'll only work for iron/steel filings but they're probably the most damaging.
Which gives better surface finish, Flood Coolant or mist? Thanks.
10:25 you bought the wrong 12 v pump or the power supply didn't have enough amperage (mine needs 8 amps) Mine works fine for about 3 years now
Now that you’ve installed a flood coolant systems, can you still use oil from time to time.? Or do you have to use only coolant now? Seem like oil would contaminate the coolant. Thanks for the all the vids. They’re spot on,.
Ah, the smell of rancid coolant. Like you forgot that you had a crotch.. then eventually it makes itself known 🤢
1:06 and it does another thing too, which i've never heard anybody talk about ,namely it makes it so much easier for your lungs to breath in al that crap from the coolant now that is floating and linger arround for longer
How much power capacity of water pump can you provide me purchase link
A simple (but not so elegant) solution to “clear the back of the vise” would be to simply make the fixed jaw thicker. Determine the smallest size endmill you will use and use that to determine how much thicker the rear jaw needs to be for sufficient overhang.
-Ben
Thanks , you answered my questions as to pump and coolant
Good job, but why you made an elbow to attach the table? Elbows are not good options with debris.
How do you collect the water/coolant/fluid without it going all over the floor ?>
That’s the same coolant I used and it stained all the bed ways and cross slide metal surfaces…
Nice project. I went through the same process when I first got into machining. The mess it produced was not worth the trouble. I discovered that using really thick cutting oil was the answer. The honey-like consistency holds the oil in place. Bobs your uncle!
Which cutting oil are you using? I'd like to try a thick oil.
try using a cheap strap wrench on your chuck when you are threading...
Your problem with the atomization is that you are using too much air.
Great vid. Can you give me an idea what spec pump to buy
I was about to say "speed it up" then he said he cranked it up. So yeah.
How about sandwiching a tin tray between the vice and table.
Hassle factor: high, Coolant effect for HSS: needed, Mess factor: high, Need to replenish and filter coolant: high, effect on cutting performance: improved a little, Negative effect of water on cast iron: high
Conclusion: Use carbide mills and skip the flood coolant. They handle the higher RPM's and heat just fine and you don't need the coolant at all for hobby use. For drilling and tapping, use a little oil.
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I've a got a slightly larger set up than you, but not by much. I use carbide mills exclusively. From time to time I'll put some oil on the mill IF I am machining aluminum since it adheres to carbide. All the rest, I machine it bone dry and my mills either break or I wear them out after many hours of use.
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Hot metal chips, you did solve that problem, but then so do thin leather gloves and a long sleeved shirt!
Where did you get the marker ? Love to get one.
Good video but a couple of things,
You can buy a flexible coolant hose with a tap and magnetic base very cheap, saves the extra work. I just bought one for $12. Your coolant isn't right 1 to 18 = 19 parts, 1÷19= 5.2% that's not enough and the reason it's not milky. I'd put another satchel in it doubling it to 10% our machine shop runs 10% to 15% minimum. I think 18 litres of water for what your need is overkill.
I ended up adding another satchel, just for peace of mind. I emailed the manufacturer and they were pretty adamant that one satchel per 20l was fine for lathe and mill work but I wasn't too happy with how it was performing
Yeah right... Kerosene..!!!
The ONE important factor that you have not addressed - is - the fact that your coolant fluid, is actually a "cutting" fluid, loaded with EP additives that will improve your tool engagement with the job.
Kerosene does a good job in my experience. It is listed in a lot of my handbooks as a suitable cutting fluid for soft metals
What is that die setup your using
You could buy mastercam and be dynamic(tm) with your manual tools. Then the chips dont get hot. We use aquarium air pumps at work to keep the coolant from smelling. Air kills the bacteria or somethingsomething.
Each shop I've worked at throughout my life I always try and convince the boss that it is against my religion to work with Stainless Steel, but nobody has bought it yet. All S.S. will work harden super easily and super fast, and 316 is one of the worst, if I can get away with it I always try to use 303SS, it's damn near butter compared to the others, that and never put oil on it while machining, it will definitely harden, try and use a water soluble coolant that turns milky when mixed or even the blue cool mist solution you run in those misters works really good in a cup and brush it on and a gallon jug when mixed correctly will last a whole year
I am going to buy 5 gallons of hydraulic oil and use that. The good, it wont evaporate, more good, I can ad in other types of oil such as cutting oil and it should mix in just fine. I can DIY a filter for it that will take out 99% of fine particles. I just need to figure out what type, or just buy the cheapest real oil I can find and try it. I'll just use a drain back system and cheap pump and use the 5 gallon pail it comes in.
Best of luck
You might look into Sicce pumps. They are found most in the aquarium trade. Top notch pumps come in many configurations to meet your needs. Aquarium pumps are typically much better quality than pond pumps.
Great info! I've had a mist cooling system for a long time but don't use it any more because of the fog. Some of the things in my current shop don't need to be exposed to coolant mist. I had to mill some 1-1/4" (32mm) deep x 5/16" (8mm) wide slots in the past few days and all I had for a lube/coolant was WD-40. It took a whole can to do the job. I was wishing for a drip or low flow flood system the entire time.
FWIW, your compressor should be more than big enough for mist coolant. It looked in the early video that you had a LOT of air flow driving the mister, as in far too much. It only takes a little mist to do the job.
I am setting up an identical system. Identical pond pump (as I had one lying around) in a bucket. I still need to add the strainer before installing it onto the machines. Mine will be a common tank to the mill and lathe. I have 1/4 and 1/2 inch flexy pipes to try, to see which gives the better coolant placement.
But previously running with a spray of kero, I was burning up HSS mills like crazy. Changing to a hand oil/water spray dramatically improved tool life. So lookink forward to trying the flood cooling.
I was researching this the other day as I am preparing shopping list to get mill etc and what I want. It's interesting cooling is not so straightforward.
Mist is considered iffy, heat cycling is likely.
Dry with some of the modern coatings (if feeds etc right) is recommended.
Flood is ok, if you ensure flood is done right and actually cooling the bit, chips or even not enough flood can be worse (the flood burns off before it reaches the actual tool).
Coating wise if doing aluminium, avoid coatings with aluminium in them.
I am planning dry with air for chip removal, I won't be using it often and the flood tank and mess etc is more effort than its probably going save me.
Google flood vs none mill there are plenty of good forums with heaps of information that actually convinced me not to bother with flood for what intended diy use I will do.
If you look at Tormac systems (there popular on RUclips :) ) or high end cnc videos, they use multi jets with some pressure (not dribble).
If you don't mind losing some vice capacity,you can make a thicker rear vice jaw.
I can't believe the prices of some of your components. Where are you located. UK?
10:20 dam copper pipes, does this mean that you've inherited millions and will be getting a bigger workshop and larger and more machines?
Use cobalt steel bits for stainless, they work much better than high speed steel. The trick is to use plenty of downforce, otherwise the tool will rub and work harden the surface. I've had to use solid carbide for stainless before, I hated drilling and tapping it.
I cannot work out how you clean up all the chips. Don't they get all sticky and clumped up and make a massive mess? For example, how to you clear out around and under the vice?
I haven't read through all the comments mate but it occurs t'me that if you put a tee junction in the feed line and return part of the feed coolant back into the tank via a fuel line tap like y'find on some lawn mowers the diaphragm pump might last a bit longer. Cheers and like the checkout chicks say over the pond: "Have a nice day".
I have a similar magnetic set up for my mini lathe but it’s gravity fed by a 2Lt PET bottle that I hook up about a metre over the lathe.
I successfully converted my drill press to a light mill so now I’ll move my rig over there as well. Every little bit helps.
…luv y’work.
If you remove the fan and light assembly from a range hood you scab from a cabinet makers it fits perfectly around a mill of that size as a chip try when inverted.
Stainless, and free.
The oil based emulsion coolants are not that healty, in my country it's under investigation due to employee allergic reaction. The supplier does not want to tell what raw materials are in the product. Whatever cooling system you use, it is always better to have good air extraction. I use myself a spattersystem with a vegetarian oil.
Nice work mate! I would recommend you ditch that soluble oil as it's really bad at staying in solution!
might be able to put a small plastic dam up on the outside edge of the vice (where you normally bold the beaks to to grab larger pieces , should guide the coolant toward the sides of the vice before it runs beyond the table , might stop a little of the splattering towarths the operator too
I would drill and tap some holes in the bed to attach the vice. Might be a bit unconventional but would work
put a coffee filter in the funnel to act as a disposable chip filter. Once it fills up, swap it out with a new filter.
A drilled hole big enough for the power cord, followed by an X-cut, will allow you to feed the power cord through without cutting the rim of the tank lid.
For my diy setup I used a 5 gallon parts washer for the tank and pump. They go on sale here in Canada for about $60.00. In the end, I found it easier/cleaner to just use carbide end mills. They are more expensive, but they take the heat far better than H.S.S., and last longer, so I only use the coolant now for the most demanding jobs. (stainless, titanium)
I’d put another bag of oil in the water looks too weak but nice work 👍🏻
This vid has given me food for thought for my mill cheers chap
You could probably use some epoxy putty to extend the drain channels on your vice so you can mount it in it's original position.
Does machining dust not stick to the pump impeller?
Please keep us informed about staining and rust.
did you consider mist cooling system and if so why did you go with flood instead of mist?
Most coolants tend to leave an oily mist on everything in the surrounding area if you don’t use an enclosure. Plus there are health concerns with regards to the atomised oil in the mist.
When drilling stainless, set your speed to the minimum
Yeah definitely, but the mill doesnt have a huge amount of low end grunt, its always a difficult balancing act to get a good rpm. Cheers
I agree, it looks too much like water and not white enough
Next step - full enclosure.
Thank you
Great idea 💡 and video mate! CHEERS!
add another half a bottle of semi synthetic to that water make it milk
Great video. Thanks for sharing!
Nicely done, both the project and the video on it.
great build. fun project
I know it may cost some of your Z height, but have you considered a fixture plate for the mill table? It could add some versatility to your vise setup and could act as sort of a screen for keeping chips out of the T-slots when the coolant starts flowing. Then again, it could just provide a larger mess for coolant runoff 😅
When drilling stainless, slow the drill right down
For sure but any slower and my mill stalls too easily. kinda a balance of enough power but not too much rpm
According to most trade standards, you can label anything (oil, solvent, reagent etc) that contains more than 30% synthetic main active components fully "synthetic" :)
Good work!
There SHOULD be something to help lubricate that coolant product, check with the manufacturer.... Also, I'd get a smaller nozzle for the flex head. A smaller stream is easier to "aim", and you dont need to have the head as close to the cutter as you do with a larger, slow flowing nozzle.
You could quite easiely add .35 liter more coolant oil since adding 1 liter to 18 liter giver you little more than 5% 1.35 liter gives you 7%. Also think it looks to clear. Otherwise if you are going to change out the fluid calculate the oil you have to the percentage what you want. So for 7% 1liter/7 then for the water take (1l/7)x93. It becomes like 13.28 liter so 13.5 will set the level a bit under 7%. Also when i worked in a shop we always mixed the coolant in 15l or 30l buckets. Then poured it in the coolant tanks and machines.
It seems to look a little low but this is more concentrated that the manufacturers guide. Ill probably play around with it in the future since I am coming into this with little experience dealing with semi synthetics.
Very cool.😆 Nicely done 👍👍👍
If you're looking for carbide inserts to cut plastic(to simplify things), look at the super high positive inserts used for aluminum. Koroloy brand has a good selection of shapes/sizes.
I filmed all this a while back. I do have a few aluminium inserts but I'm unimpressed with them. They are just too brittle for a lot of stuff I do. HSS just works out to be better. Cheets
Did the Hose clog with chips yet ?
Love the setup! glad to see more coolant in your work, ive found adjusting the shutoff valve half way or till you find the sweet spot helps with 'low flow' or getting more pressure out of the nozzle, it seems to help move the chips better. like on the older haas machines ive been on i had to find that sweet spot of pressure and flow, keep up the good work man 👍youre my fave youtube machinist
👍💯👍
30$ for a cooling hose? Omg bro. Those prices. This cooling hose with a shut valve are being sold for 2$ for 5 pcs.
In the past I’ve always found that the cheaper air and coolant hoses with ball sockets wear out faster than the expensive ones
The plastic that they use wears and it’s doesn’t hold its position as well cheers
Got it
That coolant on the mill at the end, certainly looks just like water.. I thought that once you mixed this stuff, it stayed in suspension.. what''s happening there?
It certainly looks like it on camera, but when it pools up im the mill table it has that off white colour, so it certainly has stayed in emulsion.
⭐🙂👍
You need a oil skimmer , magnet and a much better filter on the intake side of the pump.
Experiment with a rubber disk around the base of the vice. Shaped as a shallow cup with a drain tube. This will capture the coolant before it runs on the base.
One other thing. With a magnet glued to a clear plastic sheet in front to keep you from getting coolant splashed on you.
Thanks, I have that oil skimming paper and that's doing a good job. And having a sheet is easier said than done, especially when I have cameras and studio lights set up. Cheers. I'll have to take up that magnet trick though
Looks great! A nice upgrade.
Hi, I'm a machinist and we only use tap water for the coolant (just for you to know)
I'm sure that it may work, but all the documentation i have read says to use distilled to keep the total dissolved solids low. Cheers
Put the pump in a fine mesh container to prevent swarf from getting suck in. The pump at the bottom is the worst place it could be to suck up contaminants.
Cheers, the mesh filter in the funnel has actually done a really good job so far. I am thinking of a different mounting pump for the pump though
Check out t.o.t (this old tony) video here on the tube about a mill vise he made. It uses the mill bed as the vise base. I think it would be beneficial to you. 👍
Yeah ive used them before, I am a bit on the fence about them, but it is a good thing to consider.