I’ll say my panzer arms m4 clone was just over $500 after tax and it’s never malfunctioned on me once. I’ve shoot buck bird slugs and dragons breathe with 0 issues. My favorite cheap gun I have by far.
Roughly 10 years ago, gun store in my area had a fire, lots of damaged guns. My son purchased a M4 Benelli for 20$… it literally had 9mm Luger ammunition melted too the barrel . No furniture, obviously melted, we scraped and disassembled and reassembled with the same parts…. Had it shooting in about 30 minutes! 150$ for furniture, replaced various small parts and springs, 250$ invested and runs flawlessly to this day. Love it great weapon!!
I bought the Panzer M4 a couple of years ago specifically to torture it. Same as you, I took it out of the box and shot it.... a lot. Low brass #8 shot, steel #4, 00 buck(high velocity and standard), and 1oz slugs. I shot it a LOT. In fact, I decided i wasn't even going to clean it until I had a malfunction.... I got to 800 shells through it before I decided "screw it" and finally cleaned and lubed it properly. Still without a malfunction, by the way. I'm up to just over a thousand shells through it, and it's performed flawlessly. I'd read that one of the major failure points was the gas pistons peening over where they contact the bolt, so if you get a Panzer keep an eye on that. I haven't seen it at all on mine but just be aware. Also I've read that they have abysmal customer service. Again, I can't speak to that either since I haven't needed it, so take that with a grain of salt. All in all, I love mine, and I'm glad i paid 450 bucks for an M4.
I've had a Panzer M4 for about a year, did 200 shells in a day when I got it, a mix of all kinds of stuff. It has over 1k shells through it, and I only had 1 malfunction from loosely holding it near my hip trying to dump it as fast as possible. It's actually been a great gun, accurate, and fun to shoot.
@@Lysdexis I don’t disagree but the orthos comes with a lot more features out of the box than the bone stock Benelli (which most accessories for are definitely not cheap) and I could be wrong but I think the 1400 dollar S4 is their top tier model. I wanna say the one in the video is closer to 1000 even. Again that’s off the top of my head so I could have my facts mixed up but just food for thought.
@@davispasour2761panzer arms offers their competition line up for cheaper with more features than Orthos I think they are overcharging for a clone but not my money 🤷🏼
Buy once cry once. I saved a year. A far stretch for a working guy with a family. My Benelli has the factory quad rail, factory collapsible stock, factory extended tube. H2O version. Ive zero regrets. About 500 rounds in. Zero issues even with the cheap number 8 shot. I gave up smoking and drinking to get it. Phenomenal shotgun and a source of pride for me. Its more capable than I but I trust it and it makes me feel comfortable at night.
Thanks- just hit 1000 rounds and did the first clean. It surprisingly was not terribly dirty. It did have some failures to cycle on bottom of the barrel winchester white box #8 cheapies hurting my feelings a tad. Flawless with everything else. Tried some various optics- Eotech- too top heavy and too high. Holosun- meh. I went back to the ghost rings on the gun. Works perfect.
I have a Panzer M4 and it has shot everything ive fed her. from low brass 1200fps birdshot to low recoil low brass buckshot that shouldnt cycle well on semi autos to high brass buckshot and slugs and it has shot and cycle everything 100% reliably!!! Say what you want but I would trust my Panzer m4 with my life if it came to it, believe it!
Love my MAC 1014 ran 50 shells of 1500FPS before I tried lower stuff. Once I shot all the 1500 stuff it ran the low brass & low FPS #8 birdshot no issues. Picked it up for $350 on buds
@ a while ago, I see they are 373 right now on buds. I have well over 2000 rounds through it. Factory and home loads and not a single issues with it. From 1200fps to 1650fps not a single failure.
Having two MAC 1014s, this video did draw me in. Further I followed the break in procedures before going bonkers on the range and not one malfunction and believe me, I tried to break them. To me the clones are good for anyone not needing to be operational with a bank roll to fund your ops!
It's hilarious that Marines were the ones that realized the M4 could be used for clearing rooms, after breaching. Of course they told us it was frowned on, but not illegal.
I love my M4, for me it was part of the nostalgic aspect of getting it over a Panzer or Orthos. If you're wanting a fun range gun, I think both of them are excellent for that with the Orthos being a good medium, but for it's price I'd rather have the beretta 1301 or even the A300 for less. Overall I think what you want to use it for determines what you end up getting. I wanted a defensive shotgun/hog gun, hence the Benelli, but for a fun range gun I think either the panzer or Orthos are great
@@ThatGuy-rb5yw as a Benelli M4 owner, I think the 1301 and A300 are both fantastic options, and I don't think you would be disappointed with either of them
@@jacobdeem8187beretta bought benelli so they could make the 1301 better. I work for beretta usa and have shot both, they are both great but the 1301 is perfect.
@@jacobdeem8187 Not if you are dumping high brass. I have both 1301 LTT and Benelli M4 LE H2O. 1301 is more handy and cycles faster, but the recoil impulse is also sharper. The Benelli M4 cycles slower and it is easier to ride the recoil. Benelli M4 is also a more sealed system with dual self-cleaning pistons that have proven in the military over the years, so it is probably more reliable...as long as you don't bubba it.🤣
I agree with you. Have a 1301 I converted a similar fashion has an LTT without the trigger upgrade, a Benelli m4, and a panzer m4. I have put several hundred rounds through the Panzer without any hiccups. With that being said, the Benelli feels like it has a smoother operating system and has the track record. I'm honestly the biggest fan of the 1301 though it does have a more Stout recoil with three inch slugs.
@@jacobc-qy6ht Yeah, when shooting low recoil rounds 1301 would win no doubt about that, faster swing and faster cycling. But when using HV buck or slug the cycling speed won't be the limit unless the user is built like a tank. 😂
Had a panzer m4. Had about 2000 rounds through it. Once i got past the first 300 or so, I feel like it broke in and almost no malfunctions aside from me outrunning the action. I will say that it doesn't like anything less than 1200fps, which I feel is common sense for semi auto shotguns.
I have an SDS clone I got from a local store for an irresistible $280 after it saw 5 rounds as a demo. The only complaint I've run into is it stove pipes when using "less lethal" or bird shot. From what I understand, the genuine M4 pistons solve this issue. Hard to justify the price difference for what the average person needs.
Nope! The Benelli m4 is the standard and has an outstanding track record over time and in the harshest of conditions. Everything else is just that, everything else. There is a reason for the cost of the Benelli. Reliability, excellent metallurgy, R&D, reputation, top tier company, again track record, and I know exactly where it came from and where to go should I need it. The Benelli is a fighting shotgun and not a range toy. All the above comes with a price. Save up and get the real thing and not just something that looks like it. With that said, enjoy your gun and have a really cool day!!!!
Thank you so much for this review. I was so looking over RUclips for a comparison between these three seeing that I have the Orthos and I was not disappointed. Because of this review, I subscribed to your channel for further content. Respect!!!
I don't own a Benelli M4, but in the British army during the fighting in Helmand Province, I carried and used one on occasion.. Its a brilliant weapon, we mainly used it for doors in built up areas where compounds had big gates or locks.. It was used from time to time in the Green Zone in Helmand where most of the early fighting was and fighting became more like the fighting in Vietnam than the desert and it was worth its weight in gold at close range engagements.. But personally I don't think it's worth the elevated price overall.. As a soldiers weapon that is, when I was the lead man in the Green I preferred the LMG, what you'd call the M249, but that's a preference thing, some guys really wouldn't do without the M4 close up to the enemy.
@seanbryan2127 None bud, sandles would mean they were farmer doors or low value 10 dollar doors, I only shot doors in Puma sneakers and Sand shoes.. That's how you knew they were Talib doors.
I got myself a Panzer M4, I have had no issues with it aside from hip firing it and having a couple feeding issues by not having it supported by my shoulder like you experienced.
You should reshoot with a John Browning design. The expensive Browning A-5, or the much less expensive Remington 11 and Savage 720 are all much the same under the skin. All were used in WWII as well as the 70s in Africa by the Rhodesians. Pick a decent used Remington or Savage. Buy a rebuild kit from Art’s gun shop for about $120 and a recoil pad. Cut the barrel install the pad and install a mag extension if desired, Briley makes a good one +4 for $95.00. Williams guide ghost ring peeps are good as well if desired but not absolutely necessary. You’ll probably be surprised at the results. All for about the same total price as the Panzer. By the way John Browning first sold this design to Remington in the US in 1911. The same year that his 1911 45 acp pistol was released. Browning always said his Auto-5 shotgun was the favorite of all his designs. Within the decade of 1910-1920 he would also design the BAR, 1917 water cooled 30 MG, 1919 aircooled 30 MG and the legendary M-2 patented in 1918 as well.
The reason the USMC uses the Benelli M4 is because it's gas operated and will function in spite of a few bad shotgunning habits. Either the Benelli M1 or M2 super 90's will fill the bill for around $1200. The M1 and M2 are inertia operated and will cycle 8 rounds before the first hull hits the ground..if you can hold onto it. M1 and M2 can be had with screw in chokes, too. Enjoy all your videos.
I looked at the Panzer for quit a while because of price but in the end I bought a Beretta A300 patrol. It's been great,no issues. Runs everything I've thrown at it. Light, accurate and runs everything.
I bought the Coppola T4 about 3 years ago I guess. Before I shot it I cleaned the gun and relubbed it, did their recommended breakin period and it has had only one malfunction firing from the hip with birdshot. I have changed the standard stock to a Mesa Tactical Pistol grip shoulder stock, a full 7 shot tube , red dot, side saddle shell holder, and a light. It is such a great shotgun with probably around 400 shots through it from birdshot to slugs. For my house ready gun it’s loaded with federal flight control 00 buck 😊🎉😊.
Something I saw in another video that can help the clones: When you first get it, strip it completely down and clean all the lubricant off. Then go back and lube following the Benelli manual. Apparently a lot of manufacturers over lube/ lube parts Benelli doesn't, and it affects the operation. Sorry, I didn't save the video, or I'd direct you to it.
Well, I'm taking a chance with the Panzer, purchased the Turkish Walnut old school look one (it's so pretty) from Buds last night. PSA had it cheaper but when you add up shipping/handling/insurance it was actually a tad bit higher. Most others with a reasonable price were out of stock. $519.99cash/$535.59 credit..... Out the door I paid $580.00...35 of that Florida tax. Paid $7.00 for insurance....free shipping. We shall see....Enjoyed the video.
@@benjohnston3369 Well, great I guess, broke it down, cleaned and lubed, put tung oil on wood then applied Renaissance wax (awesome product for metal to) ......re-assembled, put gun sock on it, slapped in safe......and there it sits....lol... not shot yet....so much going on with all my grandkids and my wife with Christmas.... I can say one thing though; the Spa treatment I gave to it REALLY brought out the beauty in the Turkish Walnut wood grain. I am very familiar with Turkish weapons...with many that never will make it here to the states. Lived in Adana Turkey for 5 years. Amazing craftsmen, overall great people.....just like here, good people, bad people. Merry Christmas Ben!
@@mrshifter8220 "good people, bad people", speaking the truth! I have a stevens 555 that has some lovely walnut on it (also made in Turkey), and I love that shotgun. I have the wood furniture m4 on the way, which is why I asked, I may do exactly what you did to make it sparkle! Happy holidays!
@@benjohnston3369 Turkish Walnut is one of the best......Ben, make sure to invest in a small (and it's small 65ml) container of Renaissance Micro-Crystalline wax polish. A dab goes a loooooong way, and I mean a long way so don't let the container size deter you. Made in England (lived there, Lakenheath, 3 years, lol). It's different wax blends formulated by the British Museum restoration specialists for valuable furniture, metals, gun stocks, paintings, marble.....An amazing product....Amazon has it. You can skip the tung oil if you like (I have on others) and just apply this. The tung oil really isn't necessary.
I have a mac1014 I’ve had no issues yet lol but we’ll see. I’ve ran a number of different shells through it including some that were under 1300 fps and it ran flawless even when hip fired right out of the box. It also bump fires like a pissed off gorilla. This is my tedtalk thank you
I would get a Benelli before Orthos because the price difference isn't that much. But i ended up with the Panzer M4, paid just over $500 for it and bought an optic for it I wanted along with a light. So I have about $800 in the gun, shoots flawless with the 5 ammos I shot! SOLD
Beretta 1301 tactical with the chisel folding stock is the best balance and bang for the buck. 100 round of slugs out of the box, no malfunctions and the trigger can run much faster than the benelli
Other than playing shotgun games, why would that matter in the real world? I do have both the 1301LTT and the m4 Benelli and I favor the m4. Your 1301 is a great gun, enjoy!!!!
I Love my Benelli SBE II! It’s been amazing over the years, probably got around 20k or more rounds thru it & no issues to really speak of! I bought it new in 2008! Being in Love ever since! I don’t like the other two that you showed, especially the green one! Maybe I’ll by one of those on my next shotgun buy!
I shot my panzer for a while and the rubber overmold on the grip was coming loose and I couldn't find a +2 magazine extension so I sold it to a friend a couple years ago, never had a reliability issue out of it. I more recently picked up one of the MAC M1014's and haven't had any issues out of it and +2 magazine tube extensions are same as the benelli so they're easy to find and the overmold on the grip hasn't come loose. And it was considerably cheaper than the panzer. I'm probably going to buy another one since they have so many variations they're bringing in.
I bought a Hatsan MPA a few years back. Runs great very reliable and never had an issue with it. Have a couple thousand rounds through it and still going strong. Kicks like a horse too.
So I got the panzer ( it's fun and cheap) and when I got it I tire it apart and cleaned the factory lube out and used some high quality gun oil and I filed some if the hard edges and imperfections from the factory. Since then the only problem I had was with some fiocci soft hitting bird shot ( would not always eject, and would not lock on last round) but I ran plenty if wite box. Also the panzer is rated for 1200 fps or more ammo ( so I was told) and I've run 1180 and 1140 reliably.
Yeah I ran 5 boxes of high brass 3 inch and 2/3 4 loads and then tried some federal red box ammo from wally world and she has ran everything ( I had 1 round where the gun didn't lift the low brass round into the chamber before trying to close). I'm around I think 400 rounds. I also cleaned mine well and oiled her up.
Have a Panzer and have about 500 rds through it. one FTF during the first I think 1-200 rds and zero issues since, no cleaning or anything has been done. Just take it out back and run it. Birdshot, target load, buck, slug, sabot slug it feeds them all. Have a Benelli as well same thing except I dont think it has ever had an FTF, never fired the third shotgun so cannot say. But price wise if I had not owned the Benelli first ( grandfather works for Benelli so had to buy it on his recommendation) I would have been more than happy with the Panzer and trust its reliability.
I've got a typhoon defense quake that's an m4 clone, made in turkey, far as I know quality control is here. It has run everything I've put through it, except target birdshot, it really doesn't like that stuff, but sometimes it runs that to.
Benelli all day. I have the OD green M4 and I love it. I’ve used cheaper knock offs and every time I’ve just not felt they live up to the actual quality. Not to mention resale value. I get that some people can’t afford it or don’t want to spend that money. But, I just stick with the idea of “buy once, cry once.”
Got my panzer M4 for 650 at turners in the walnut spec, they have improved on it since it was made. Very reliable just make sure to clean the gun and lube with premium gun oil before first shots, now I got a M-Lok hand guard and a tac grip on it. I live in California to so I technically paid like 800 for the gun
On my panzer I cleaned all that gunk off of it. If you read the benelli manual it says the gas pistons under the grip need to be dry, no lube. Did that and she ran like a champ. Also recommends running so much high brass first for break in. But for 500 bucks I got no complaints.
I have the panzer and I’m extremely impressed with it. However I did have a few issues at first with cycling right out of the box and after shooting it a while and a good c&l it runs great
Have you ever had a Genesis Arms Gen-12 on the channel? I searched a bit and don't see a video. I own a Gen-12 SBS (yes, I paid my tyranny tax stamp) and have owned a Benelli M4 in the past. I can confidently say that the Gen-12 is "in my opinion" the best semi-automatic shotgun that you can buy today. AR Controls, magazine fed, reliable, and American Made. Would be cool to see you try one on the channel, and cool to see you compare it to more traditional semi-auto scatter guns, like the M4. And before anyone jumps down my throat, the price is comparable between the Gen-12 and a genuine Benelli M4. The point of the video I am suggesting is not to compare it to more budget friendly options as he has done in this video.
Cool video really wanted the Panzer to come in second…just because of price, I believe you said that. 1500/1350 for a shot gun is to Much, no need in my world …. Have Moss Burg 590A1 it serves its purpose… thanks again 💯❤️🇺🇸
The review I've been waiting for. I can't afford a Benelli and wanted a reliable semi-auto shotgun. Looking into getting a Panzer or Orthos, would love to see a follow up video on the Panzer and Orthos after the break-in period.
I'm in the same boat. I definitely can't spring for the Benelli, I really dig the Orthos but it's still a lil high for me. I'm leaning towards the Panzer, but I would really like to see how it performs through, and after break in.
My orthos was garbage until I shot about 500-600 rounds of 1500fps or greater ammo.about 350-400$. Rounds would literally get stuck in the chamber and I had to shove a rod down the barrel to get them out. Wouldn’t even cycle two rounds back to back. Also I have the camo version and put some painters tape on the side while breaking it in to prevent scratching and when I removed the tape it half stripped the camo pattern off. The I just lightly scratched it with nail and it easily was coming off. I had to send it in 3 times over a 2 month period to get it fixed. They never told me what was wrong and each time it came back slightly better but still terrible cycling issues. Now after it’s broken in then it shoots better but a little upsetting because they told me it shouldn’t need broken in and if it does they said only like 25-50 high FPS high brass rounds should do it.
reviews like this reinforced the desire to cut to the chase and buy an m4, $1999 out the door for the "m1014 celebration" from cabelas last weekend, maybe a lil cheaper elsewhere with some searching but not as handy, as a lot of those cheaper listings had none in stock, looks just like a real m1014 but with no tritium in the ghost ring sights, single position adjustable, and 5 round tube. a titanium 7 round tube is on the way, meprolite tritium replacement sight inserts are $87 at amazon if i find myself not surviving without them, and the correct recoil tube is $168 if i can't live without the ability to move the butt stock into a position ill likely never shoot with it in (i'm actually not positive the extra grooves can't be cut on the recoil tube to put the stock wherever i want it, maybe a crafts project some day)
I have an m4, shoot it right out the box and i did have failures, but i blame it on the manufacturer oil bc it was swimming in it. I clean it, lubed it ran better but still have issue with the low brass. Have less then 50 shells, from what i read is that i have to run 50 of high velocity shells and it should run flawless
New to the channel. Not sure what it is but I find myself watching the entire thing. Probably bc you don't spend an hour making scripted movies or some other nonsense. Anyways, subbed and excited for the next one!
They are a fine range toy to scratch the benelli itch, but ive seen too many fail in class to trust my life to them. If you have serious use intentions, or high rounf count intentions, just get the M4. If youre on a budget, get the beretta a300 ultima patrol or a mossberg 940jm pro. Both are double the gun of any turknelli
The answer for me would be based on intended use and longevity testing. At the price point from what I saw they all fit their own criteria to justify price. The real test is if the panzer or orthos could hold up to continued abuse for as long as the benelli has proven it can.
AKSA S4 best I've shot clone...so I bought one. It runs everything, quick trigger, smooth action and accurate. Can't really complain after 800+ shells through it.
I’ve been running a Benelli M4 a lot lately, I have it set up to accept esstac shotgun cards and love it. Any suggestions/recommendations on mounting a light without changing the handgaurd?
Freedom Fighter Tactical is in the process of marketing an excellent sling/light mount. Go there for all your m4 stuff. The m4 needs nothing other than a 7 shot tube if you don't have one.
Just the little Parts in the bolt carrier and the trigger group. I put a bunch of Benelli OEM Parts in there. Springs, O-Rings, firing pin, hammer. Little cheap stuff But from Benelli. Run the crap out of it with no issues. I love the panzer m4 I got from PSA. Me review is on their website under the marine version.
i've seen some clones get some peening on the bolt carrier right where the pistons impact it, so the bold carrier and the pistons themselves are the parts i'd consider replacing first
You have a LE/MIL barrel model which does not come choked. All other M4s/M1014 models come with internally threaded choked barrels using benellis Crio chokes.
My panzer m4 my Genelli is a beast it just works. Hundreds of rounds no malfunctions except on Fiocchi 00 buck it won’t cycle it. Rio trap shoot super x bird shot military 00 rounds all slugs white box all cycle great. Great gun for the money.
@@1SmokedTurkey1 I live in America and I have a benelli M4 and it has removable chokes. I didn’t know there were models without them, but apparently there are.
A word to the wise it doesn't matter what the weapons history is If you're receiving it for the first time always always take your pick and swab mop wire brush, nitro solvent/Gunscrubber, whatever...do your thing🎉 to clean the barrel bote before firing the weapon--at very minimum Depending what's in there there could be cosmoline cutting oil sulfur base cutting oil, wax, rust, Never fire a weapon without first policing the barrel bore.....at minimum.
My buddy has an M4 and I have the Orthos and we came to pretty much the same conclusion in which they’re too similar to tell a difference really but the trigger and recoil management of the Orthos is slightly better.
This is a great video showing how they performed out of the box. But what makes the Benelli M4 legendary is its reliability in the long run. TFB has tested quite a few shoguns now, and those cheap Turk guns rarely hold up to even 500 shells. My Benelli M4 went over that within two range visits years ago, and it is still the shotgun I trust the most.
TFB's test on the Maverick 88 sold me on it. Bought it ran a box of 00 buck through it, no cleaning, after removing the bamboo stick and 0 hiccups. Swapped the stock for the Fab defense recoil absorbing adjustable grip stock and love it even more.
@@mongop177 Yeah, Maverick 88 has always been a solid budget option. I have been recommending people get a good pump action from Mossberg if their budget isn't enough for a reliable semi-auto. A300 Patrol dropped that entry-level to 900, which is awesome. Have a friend who went with FN SLP when I warned him not to miss the deal when 1301 gen2 tactical was just over 1100. He missed the deal, sold that FN SLP because it wasn't running on everything he want to shoot. Then bought a 1301 at a much higher price.😂
U have the m4 and the orthos. And I almost don't shoot my benelli anymore I find the orthos to be nearly as good. So if I wanna mess around and shoot a shotgun I use the orthos most the time. I actuslly haven't had any malfunctions on the orthos. But I'd still say the benelli is more reliable just because of its history. But both are good and the orthos is more fun and I think once I have some more rounds threw it is consider using it as a home defense shotgun
I have a benelli m4 I love the thing but I'm really curious about that s4. I think I have to get one now after seeing this. I mean if it's reliability and longevity are even remotely close to a benelli for that price it's for sure worth it
I bought the Orthos because of a few reviews I saw on YT and then actually spoke to one of them and told me after a few thousand rounds it shoots awesome. I figured with the upgrades I will take a shot. I also spoke to Armsco and their is a lifetime guaranty. So I took a shot. Glad I did - I posted on here a few times - but again - no failures - shoots light as hell for a 12 gauge. Really happy with the purchase. I didnt want to spend $2.5-$3.0K on an upgraded Benelli and now the Baretta 1301's are $1900 without the upgrades.
Then do yourself a favor and go Mossberg 590a1 and never look back. There is nothing in the real world that you will ever really need more than the 590a1. Yeah, the 1301LTT and the Benelli m4 are nice, I have both, but...
Picked up my benelli m4 h20 at scheels awhile back for $2,100. 1 malfunction using bird shot. No other malfunctioning issues with hundreds of rounds of buck and slugs
Hey bro love all your stufff. I just wanted to ask for your over professional opinion. I am a recreational shooter and i want to become more maybe even comp. But at the very least every weekend. I have a s&w mp 357 and a eaa 45. I have been looking at canik 9mm. I want something out of the box i can not only have fun with but comp. If i want to. I would be fine with trigger change and things of that of that kind down the road. Could you give me any advice. Would like some thing that shoots flat and reddot. Thank you for any advice.
Any of the canik would be in my price range. Would you recommend one over the other? I have looked them all over and I'm am able to get anyone of them. I would like something with a red dot. I just don't know what to go with. What would be the best in your opinion? And I like them all so color or design doesn't matter I just want a accurate nail driver I can go target shooting with every weekend. I'm wanting to get back into it because my sun is finally at the age want something for use to do together. Even go to comps together. Don't are about winning just spending time with my son. Thanks for answering. Most people would be to busy to comment back @@PewView
@@PewViewAny of the canik would be in my price range. Would you recommend one over the other? I have looked them all over and I'm am able to get anyone of them. I would like something with a red dot. I just don't know what to go with. What would be the best in your opinion? And I like them all so color or design doesn't matter I just want a accurate nail driver I can go target shooting with every weekend. I'm wanting to get back into it because my sun is finally at the age want something for use to do together. Even go to comps together. Don't are about winning just spending time with my son. Thanks for answering. Most people would be to busy to comment back @PewView
I had a 1301 and a benelli M4, the M4 was incapable of cycling target ammo, I could outrun the trigger and cost way too much and had too many issues for me to keep it. Kept the 1301 and haven’t looked back
I am curious as to why you say this. I use the Walmart red box stuff as my test ammo in any semi auto shotgun I buy. If it runs that, it’ll run anything. White box a better test ammo?
@@HavocRPandemoniumOfficalthere’s nothing “wrong” with it. I think killer is overstating the case. I will say, however, that it is pretty low powered, so some guns may not cycle well using it. It’s also dirty as hell. Like shockingly dirty. Whatever powder they’re using leaves so much more carbon than anything else I’ve shot, and I’ve shot just about everything under the sun. So it’s not really a gun killer, but it’s generally underpowered, sometimes doesn’t cycle well, and dirty.
As you ran through the description of these three 5:20 out of the box (OOTB) shotguns 5:44 You went through the Panzer M4 description and said 5:50 it's only $700. I can't find a $700 OOTB version of that gun. It ranged from $430 to $599. Can you post the upgrades that you did, had done, or that THAT 1 came with? I wasn't supposed to get any other guns until I got my shotgun after I got my RIFLE I've since gotten a few.It's still having gotten my shotgun, LOL I was eyeballing black aces, the mac 1014, and the panzer m4 Shotgun for home defense AND Hunting. Can you do a comparison video for these 3 shotguns?... UPDATE: I went with the panzer M4. Got it for about 419 - 439 something like that. Paid about the same and upgrades so roughly $850.
i have a panzer and when i got it i had issues with the bcg. i got an early orthos arms titanium nitride bcg and the thing has ran amazing since. iv got around 800 rounds with it set up like this and had only 2 frailer to feed.
I sent my Orthos Raider in for warranty after three boxes of shells. Ran 1550fps 2 shot through it, 75 rounds. Of every six shot ‘group,’ every single series had a failure to feed on the third or fourth shell. I am very disappointed in the lack of reliability for a shotgun that retails for $1,500. Also, the butt stock began to separate from the receiver, 1/8” gap and very loose after 75 rounds. Poor quality from Orthos. Disappointed.
I know this is not a 1301 video but I opted for the Beretta 1301 and love it. Eats anything,anytime and I can’t pull the trigger as fast as you do but I can’t our run it.
I have watched enough of the James reeves 500 round shotgun burn downs to know that those clones will probably have some catastrophic failure after 300-400 slugs. i have an M4 and i have put over 1500 slugs and 2500 rounds of bird shot through it, i have only cleaned it twice and it works 100% of the time. If you are looking at getting a shotgun i strongly advise not getting one from turkey, they have a very bad track record. Edit: i just looks and James Reeves has done a burn down on the panzer and it technically passed. personally the number of malfunctions seems excessive. my only question is will it hold up to 10000 or 20000 rounds like the benelli routinely does?
Not a very in-depth test but still entertaining!! I’ve had a panzer, after the 100-300 round break in it technique works. I’m with you, ANY shotgun should handle birdshot no problem!! Most of the “cheapies” don’t Lol 😂😢 the orthos is interesting for sure, there’s a couple companies kicking ass in the semiautomatic shotgun market, you said it best tho… time will tell 🤷♂️👍
I have a real Benelli M4 as well as a Sulan Arms Tac 12 . The Benelli is clearly better but idk about 5 or 6 times better. Don’t get me wrong, I would choose the Benelli 10/10 times . The Sulan likes defensive loads but if you lube it up a bit she runs 95+ percent reliability with white box but 100% with heavier loads . The Benelli eats all but to be fair I did get it lightly used and probably already had a little oil on it .
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
I’ll say my panzer arms m4 clone was just over $500 after tax and it’s never malfunctioned on me once. I’ve shoot buck bird slugs and dragons breathe with 0 issues. My favorite cheap gun I have by far.
Thanks
Same here no issues with mine
SAME!!! I LOVE my panzer!!
Mine (panzer)runs pretty good as well
I love my Panzer. Anything over about 1300 feet per second runs perfectly. Birdshot, buckshot, slugs. It pretty much all runs great
Roughly 10 years ago, gun store in my area had a fire, lots of damaged guns. My son purchased a M4 Benelli for 20$… it literally had 9mm Luger ammunition melted too the barrel . No furniture, obviously melted, we scraped and disassembled and reassembled with the same parts…. Had it shooting in about 30 minutes! 150$ for furniture, replaced various small parts and springs, 250$ invested and runs flawlessly to this day. Love it great weapon!!
I bought the Panzer M4 a couple of years ago specifically to torture it. Same as you, I took it out of the box and shot it.... a lot. Low brass #8 shot, steel #4, 00 buck(high velocity and standard), and 1oz slugs. I shot it a LOT. In fact, I decided i wasn't even going to clean it until I had a malfunction.... I got to 800 shells through it before I decided "screw it" and finally cleaned and lubed it properly. Still without a malfunction, by the way. I'm up to just over a thousand shells through it, and it's performed flawlessly.
I'd read that one of the major failure points was the gas pistons peening over where they contact the bolt, so if you get a Panzer keep an eye on that. I haven't seen it at all on mine but just be aware. Also I've read that they have abysmal customer service. Again, I can't speak to that either since I haven't needed it, so take that with a grain of salt.
All in all, I love mine, and I'm glad i paid 450 bucks for an M4.
I've had a Panzer M4 for about a year, did 200 shells in a day when I got it, a mix of all kinds of stuff. It has over 1k shells through it, and I only had 1 malfunction from loosely holding it near my hip trying to dump it as fast as possible. It's actually been a great gun, accurate, and fun to shoot.
Thanks
Pretty much the same story here. hipfire will can make a semi jam- it’s not a gun issue
READ MY COMMENT ABOUT THIS GUN
I THINK ITS JUST THESE GUYS
Benelli m4 is $1999 at Cabela's, and orthos s4 is $1400 at buds, and the panser m4 is $500 at PSA... Just checked 10/21/2024
Damn can buy 3 clones and a couple cases of ammo for the price of 1
Safe to say the orthos is hardly a "cheap" clone
@@Lysdexis I don’t disagree but the orthos comes with a lot more features out of the box than the bone stock Benelli (which most accessories for are definitely not cheap) and I could be wrong but I think the 1400 dollar S4 is their top tier model. I wanna say the one in the video is closer to 1000 even. Again that’s off the top of my head so I could have my facts mixed up but just food for thought.
@@davispasour2761panzer arms offers their competition line up for cheaper with more features than Orthos
I think they are overcharging for a clone but not my money 🤷🏼
W research
W Time spent
Buy once cry once. I saved a year. A far stretch for a working guy with a family. My Benelli has the factory quad rail, factory collapsible stock, factory extended tube. H2O version. Ive zero regrets. About 500 rounds in. Zero issues even with the cheap number 8 shot. I gave up smoking and drinking to get it. Phenomenal shotgun and a source of pride for me. Its more capable than I but I trust it and it makes me feel comfortable at night.
NICE CONGRATS!
That’s a sick way to save up, by quitting those two. Congrats man that takes a LOT of will power.
Thanks- just hit 1000 rounds and did the first clean. It surprisingly was not terribly dirty. It did have some failures to cycle on bottom of the barrel winchester white box #8 cheapies hurting my feelings a tad. Flawless with everything else. Tried some various optics- Eotech- too top heavy and too high. Holosun- meh. I went back to the ghost rings on the gun. Works perfect.
I have a Panzer M4 and it has shot everything ive fed her. from low brass 1200fps birdshot to low recoil low brass buckshot that shouldnt cycle well on semi autos to high brass buckshot and slugs and it has shot and cycle everything 100% reliably!!! Say what you want but I would trust my Panzer m4 with my life if it came to it, believe it!
Thanks
I'm ready to find one for myself . Looks promising
Love my MAC 1014 ran 50 shells of 1500FPS before I tried lower stuff. Once I shot all the 1500 stuff it ran the low brass & low FPS #8 birdshot no issues. Picked it up for $350 on buds
When was that?
@ a while ago, I see they are 373 right now on buds. I have well over 2000 rounds through it. Factory and home loads and not a single issues with it. From 1200fps to 1650fps not a single failure.
Having two MAC 1014s, this video did draw me in. Further I followed the break in procedures before going bonkers on the range and not one malfunction and believe me, I tried to break them. To me the clones are good for anyone not needing to be operational with a bank roll to fund your ops!
It's hilarious that Marines were the ones that realized the M4 could be used for clearing rooms, after breaching. Of course they told us it was frowned on, but not illegal.
Just Not ideal if your trying to be selective unless using a slug!
@@troymcdonald9086 It was more about the damage it did to people's heads.
If you need something destroyed, dead, or pregnant… call the Marines.
@@nicholassorensen9035 I can 100% confirm that! Also, Mustangs with a 30% interest rate and marrying strippers, I saw them all!
“This was made for doors only but it’s weird how many doors had full beards”
I love my M4, for me it was part of the nostalgic aspect of getting it over a Panzer or Orthos. If you're wanting a fun range gun, I think both of them are excellent for that with the Orthos being a good medium, but for it's price I'd rather have the beretta 1301 or even the A300 for less. Overall I think what you want to use it for determines what you end up getting. I wanted a defensive shotgun/hog gun, hence the Benelli, but for a fun range gun I think either the panzer or Orthos are great
I’m thinking about the A300
@@ThatGuy-rb5yw as a Benelli M4 owner, I think the 1301 and A300 are both fantastic options, and I don't think you would be disappointed with either of them
@@frogonlilypad thanks!
I’d Like to see the beretta 1301 thrown in there. It is cheaper than the Benelli but I wouldn’t call it a “budget” bang stick.
I'd call it better than the benelli
@@jacobdeem8187beretta bought benelli so they could make the 1301 better.
I work for beretta usa and have shot both, they are both great but the 1301 is perfect.
@@jacobdeem8187 Not if you are dumping high brass. I have both 1301 LTT and Benelli M4 LE H2O. 1301 is more handy and cycles faster, but the recoil impulse is also sharper. The Benelli M4 cycles slower and it is easier to ride the recoil.
Benelli M4 is also a more sealed system with dual self-cleaning pistons that have proven in the military over the years, so it is probably more reliable...as long as you don't bubba it.🤣
I agree with you. Have a 1301 I converted a similar fashion has an LTT without the trigger upgrade, a Benelli m4, and a panzer m4. I have put several hundred rounds through the Panzer without any hiccups. With that being said, the Benelli feels like it has a smoother operating system and has the track record. I'm honestly the biggest fan of the 1301 though it does have a more Stout recoil with three inch slugs.
@@jacobc-qy6ht Yeah, when shooting low recoil rounds 1301 would win no doubt about that, faster swing and faster cycling. But when using HV buck or slug the cycling speed won't be the limit unless the user is built like a tank. 😂
Had a panzer m4. Had about 2000 rounds through it. Once i got past the first 300 or so, I feel like it broke in and almost no malfunctions aside from me outrunning the action. I will say that it doesn't like anything less than 1200fps, which I feel is common sense for semi auto shotguns.
I have an SDS clone I got from a local store for an irresistible $280 after it saw 5 rounds as a demo. The only complaint I've run into is it stove pipes when using "less lethal" or bird shot. From what I understand, the genuine M4 pistons solve this issue.
Hard to justify the price difference for what the average person needs.
Nope!
The Benelli m4 is the standard and has an outstanding track record over time and in the harshest of conditions.
Everything else is just that, everything else.
There is a reason for the cost of the Benelli. Reliability, excellent metallurgy, R&D, reputation, top tier company, again track record, and I know exactly where it came from and where to go should I need it.
The Benelli is a fighting shotgun and not a range toy. All the above comes with a price.
Save up and get the real thing and not just something that looks like it.
With that said, enjoy your gun and have a really cool day!!!!
Thank you so much for this review. I was so looking over RUclips for a comparison between these three seeing that I have the Orthos and I was not disappointed. Because of this review, I subscribed to your channel for further content. Respect!!!
I don't own a Benelli M4, but in the British army during the fighting in Helmand Province, I carried and used one on occasion.. Its a brilliant weapon, we mainly used it for doors in built up areas where compounds had big gates or locks.. It was used from time to time in the Green Zone in Helmand where most of the early fighting was and fighting became more like the fighting in Vietnam than the desert and it was worth its weight in gold at close range engagements.. But personally I don't think it's worth the elevated price overall.. As a soldiers weapon that is, when I was the lead man in the Green I preferred the LMG, what you'd call the M249, but that's a preference thing, some guys really wouldn't do without the M4 close up to the enemy.
Have you discovered any tips and tricks with the m4?
How many doors wore sandals in your time overseas
@seanbryan2127 None bud, sandles would mean they were farmer doors or low value 10 dollar doors, I only shot doors in Puma sneakers and Sand shoes.. That's how you knew they were Talib doors.
@@DaDaW9762 that's.. Fuckin.. Hilarious
Which part of helmand were you taking out 'doors' if you dont mind me asking?
I was on the fence on buying a clone. I just couldn't do it. Picked up a Benelli m4 11714 LE . Glad I did.
I got myself a Panzer M4, I have had no issues with it aside from hip firing it and having a couple feeding issues by not having it supported by my shoulder like you experienced.
Thanks
You should reshoot with a John Browning design. The expensive Browning A-5, or the much less expensive Remington 11 and Savage 720 are all much the same under the skin. All were used in WWII as well as the 70s in Africa by the Rhodesians. Pick a decent used Remington or Savage. Buy a rebuild kit from Art’s gun shop for about $120 and a recoil pad. Cut the barrel install the pad and install a mag extension if desired, Briley makes a good one +4 for $95.00. Williams guide ghost ring peeps are good as well if desired but not absolutely necessary. You’ll probably be surprised at the results. All for about the same total price as the Panzer. By the way John Browning first sold this design to Remington in the US in 1911. The same year that his 1911 45 acp pistol was released. Browning always said his Auto-5 shotgun was the favorite of all his designs. Within the decade of 1910-1920 he would also design the BAR, 1917 water cooled 30 MG, 1919 aircooled 30 MG and the legendary M-2 patented in 1918 as well.
The reason the USMC uses the Benelli M4 is because it's gas operated and will function in spite of a few bad shotgunning habits.
Either the Benelli M1 or M2 super 90's will fill the bill for around $1200.
The M1 and M2 are inertia operated and will cycle 8 rounds before the first hull hits the ground..if you can hold onto it.
M1 and M2 can be had with screw in chokes, too.
Enjoy all your videos.
I looked at the Panzer for quit a while because of price but in the end I bought a Beretta A300 patrol. It's been great,no issues. Runs everything I've thrown at it. Light, accurate and runs everything.
I bought the Coppola T4 about 3 years ago I guess. Before I shot it I cleaned the gun and relubbed it, did their recommended breakin period and it has had only one malfunction firing from the hip with birdshot. I have changed the standard stock to a Mesa Tactical Pistol grip shoulder stock, a full 7 shot tube , red dot, side saddle shell holder, and a light. It is such a great shotgun with probably around 400 shots through it from birdshot to slugs. For my house ready gun it’s loaded with federal flight control 00 buck 😊🎉😊.
Something I saw in another video that can help the clones: When you first get it, strip it completely down and clean all the lubricant off. Then go back and lube following the Benelli manual. Apparently a lot of manufacturers over lube/ lube parts Benelli doesn't, and it affects the operation. Sorry, I didn't save the video, or I'd direct you to it.
Love my Benelli! Parts are almost as expensive as SCAR parts though. 😂
If the panzer will accept oem benelli parts.
Get it for what 400 and build it to be on par with the s4. The way you want it.
Well, I'm taking a chance with the Panzer, purchased the Turkish Walnut old school look one (it's so pretty) from Buds last night. PSA had it cheaper but when you add up shipping/handling/insurance it was actually a tad bit higher. Most others with a reasonable price were out of stock. $519.99cash/$535.59 credit..... Out the door I paid $580.00...35 of that Florida tax. Paid $7.00 for insurance....free shipping. We shall see....Enjoyed the video.
How'd it work out?
@@benjohnston3369 Well, great I guess, broke it down, cleaned and lubed, put tung oil on wood then applied Renaissance wax (awesome product for metal to) ......re-assembled, put gun sock on it, slapped in safe......and there it sits....lol... not shot yet....so much going on with all my grandkids and my wife with Christmas.... I can say one thing though; the Spa treatment I gave to it REALLY brought out the beauty in the Turkish Walnut wood grain. I am very familiar with Turkish weapons...with many that never will make it here to the states. Lived in Adana Turkey for 5 years. Amazing craftsmen, overall great people.....just like here, good people, bad people. Merry Christmas Ben!
@@mrshifter8220 "good people, bad people", speaking the truth! I have a stevens 555 that has some lovely walnut on it (also made in Turkey), and I love that shotgun. I have the wood furniture m4 on the way, which is why I asked, I may do exactly what you did to make it sparkle! Happy holidays!
@@benjohnston3369 Turkish Walnut is one of the best......Ben, make sure to invest in a small (and it's small 65ml) container of Renaissance Micro-Crystalline wax polish. A dab goes a loooooong way, and I mean a long way so don't let the container size deter you. Made in England (lived there, Lakenheath, 3 years, lol). It's different wax blends formulated by the British Museum restoration specialists for valuable furniture, metals, gun stocks, paintings, marble.....An amazing product....Amazon has it. You can skip the tung oil if you like (I have on others) and just apply this. The tung oil really isn't necessary.
I have a mac1014 I’ve had no issues yet lol but we’ll see. I’ve ran a number of different shells through it including some that were under 1300 fps and it ran flawless even when hip fired right out of the box. It also bump fires like a pissed off gorilla. This is my tedtalk thank you
9:55 I guess that's how Murphy felt in Robocop.
I would get a Benelli before Orthos because the price difference isn't that much. But i ended up with the Panzer M4, paid just over $500 for it and bought an optic for it I wanted along with a light. So I have about $800 in the gun, shoots flawless with the 5 ammos I shot! SOLD
Beretta 1301 tactical with the chisel folding stock is the best balance and bang for the buck. 100 round of slugs out of the box, no malfunctions and the trigger can run much faster than the benelli
Other than playing shotgun games, why would that matter in the real world?
I do have both the 1301LTT and the m4 Benelli and I favor the m4.
Your 1301 is a great gun, enjoy!!!!
I Love my Benelli SBE II! It’s been amazing over the years, probably got around 20k or more rounds thru it & no issues to really speak of! I bought it new in 2008! Being in Love ever since!
I don’t like the other two that you showed, especially the green one! Maybe I’ll by one of those on my next shotgun buy!
I shot my panzer for a while and the rubber overmold on the grip was coming loose and I couldn't find a +2 magazine extension so I sold it to a friend a couple years ago, never had a reliability issue out of it. I more recently picked up one of the MAC M1014's and haven't had any issues out of it and +2 magazine tube extensions are same as the benelli so they're easy to find and the overmold on the grip hasn't come loose. And it was considerably cheaper than the panzer. I'm probably going to buy another one since they have so many variations they're bringing in.
I bought a Hatsan MPA a few years back. Runs great very reliable and never had an issue with it. Have a couple thousand rounds through it and still going strong. Kicks like a horse too.
So I got the panzer ( it's fun and cheap) and when I got it I tire it apart and cleaned the factory lube out and used some high quality gun oil and I filed some if the hard edges and imperfections from the factory. Since then the only problem I had was with some fiocci soft hitting bird shot ( would not always eject, and would not lock on last round) but I ran plenty if wite box.
Also the panzer is rated for 1200 fps or more ammo ( so I was told) and I've run 1180 and 1140 reliably.
Yeah I ran 5 boxes of high brass 3 inch and 2/3 4 loads and then tried some federal red box ammo from wally world and she has ran everything ( I had 1 round where the gun didn't lift the low brass round into the chamber before trying to close). I'm around I think 400 rounds. I also cleaned mine well and oiled her up.
A poor-view video would be great. A budget 3-gun setup. Panzer,Canik & PSA
Yesssss!!
I like this idea. Budget 3 gun setups.
Follow up comment / question. Can you 3 gun with an AK?
Have a Panzer and have about 500 rds through it. one FTF during the first I think 1-200 rds and zero issues since, no cleaning or anything has been done. Just take it out back and run it. Birdshot, target load, buck, slug, sabot slug it feeds them all.
Have a Benelli as well same thing except I dont think it has ever had an FTF, never fired the third shotgun so cannot say. But price wise if I had not owned the Benelli first ( grandfather works for Benelli so had to buy it on his recommendation) I would have been more than happy with the Panzer and trust its reliability.
I've got a typhoon defense quake that's an m4 clone, made in turkey, far as I know quality control is here. It has run everything I've put through it, except target birdshot, it really doesn't like that stuff, but sometimes it runs that to.
Benelli all day. I have the OD green M4 and I love it. I’ve used cheaper knock offs and every time I’ve just not felt they live up to the actual quality. Not to mention resale value. I get that some people can’t afford it or don’t want to spend that money. But, I just stick with the idea of “buy once, cry once.”
How much did you spend on your Benelli M4?
@@gilbertwilson9093 1900
@@gilbertwilson9093to much
Got my Benelli m4 in the LE version.
The model # is 11715 and it came with the telescoping stock and the mag extention.
$1700.
@@gilbertwilson9093 I paid about 1800 for my M4. It’s really not that expensive. I have several firearms that are more than double that price.
Got my panzer M4 for 650 at turners in the walnut spec, they have improved on it since it was made. Very reliable just make sure to clean the gun and lube with premium gun oil before first shots, now I got a M-Lok hand guard and a tac grip on it. I live in California to so I technically paid like 800 for the gun
Never had either, but the orthos makes me smile the most!
On my panzer I cleaned all that gunk off of it. If you read the benelli manual it says the gas pistons under the grip need to be dry, no lube. Did that and she ran like a champ. Also recommends running so much high brass first for break in. But for 500 bucks I got no complaints.
I have a Tokarev , it has been very reliable and good shooting shotgun.
I've recently become aware of orthos benelli clone and been waiting on a good review of it. Awesome!
for the price of the Orthos, i'd much rather get an A300 or a 1301, but as things are, I love my Benelli M4
2:07 " let me show you why" 😂😂😂😂
How to spend $4k for a gel-dummy in 1.5secs😂
I have the panzer and I’m extremely impressed with it. However I did have a few issues at first with cycling right out of the box and after shooting it a while and a good c&l it runs great
Think the cops have an actual breacher barrel.., the spiked breach is part of the actual barrel mold. I have one on my mossberg jm pro 930.
Have you ever had a Genesis Arms Gen-12 on the channel? I searched a bit and don't see a video. I own a Gen-12 SBS (yes, I paid my tyranny tax stamp) and have owned a Benelli M4 in the past. I can confidently say that the Gen-12 is "in my opinion" the best semi-automatic shotgun that you can buy today. AR Controls, magazine fed, reliable, and American Made. Would be cool to see you try one on the channel, and cool to see you compare it to more traditional semi-auto scatter guns, like the M4.
And before anyone jumps down my throat, the price is comparable between the Gen-12 and a genuine Benelli M4. The point of the video I am suggesting is not to compare it to more budget friendly options as he has done in this video.
Checking G-broker...Panzer is $500-ish, Orthos is $1500 and Benelli ranges from $1.5k - $2.5k.
Love my M4. Haven't pulled the trigger on hardly any mods yet, just a light...... mine does have choke options tho?
The 1014 models don’t take chockes. They are supposed to be the “combat” models.
Heck yeah! Been waiting for this review!
Cool video really wanted the Panzer to come in second…just because of price, I believe you said that. 1500/1350 for a shot gun is to Much, no need in my world …. Have Moss Burg 590A1 it serves its purpose… thanks again
💯❤️🇺🇸
The review I've been waiting for. I can't afford a Benelli and wanted a reliable semi-auto shotgun. Looking into getting a Panzer or Orthos, would love to see a follow up video on the Panzer and Orthos after the break-in period.
I'm in the same boat. I definitely can't spring for the Benelli, I really dig the Orthos but it's still a lil high for me. I'm leaning towards the Panzer, but I would really like to see how it performs through, and after break in.
Mossberg 940 for around a grand. Excellent.
💪
Beretta A300 Ultima Patrol is also a very solid option for half the Benelli price.
The Panzer should be disassembled and cleaned before shooting with it. It has a really sticky grease all over it from the factory.
I’ve been considering the Beretta A300 Patrol for my shotgun choice! Good price and quality for around 1K.
FYI orthos s4 can’t be found for under $1200 online.
My orthos was garbage until I shot about 500-600 rounds of 1500fps or greater ammo.about 350-400$. Rounds would literally get stuck in the chamber and I had to shove a rod down the barrel to get them out. Wouldn’t even cycle two rounds back to back. Also I have the camo version and put some painters tape on the side while breaking it in to prevent scratching and when I removed the tape it half stripped the camo pattern off. The I just lightly scratched it with nail and it easily was coming off. I had to send it in 3 times over a 2 month period to get it fixed. They never told me what was wrong and each time it came back slightly better but still terrible cycling issues. Now after it’s broken in then it shoots better but a little upsetting because they told me it shouldn’t need broken in and if it does they said only like 25-50 high FPS high brass rounds should do it.
My S4 has been pretty shitty too
reviews like this reinforced the desire to cut to the chase and buy an m4, $1999 out the door for the "m1014 celebration" from cabelas last weekend, maybe a lil cheaper elsewhere with some searching but not as handy, as a lot of those cheaper listings had none in stock, looks just like a real m1014 but with no tritium in the ghost ring sights, single position adjustable, and 5 round tube. a titanium 7 round tube is on the way, meprolite tritium replacement sight inserts are $87 at amazon if i find myself not surviving without them, and the correct recoil tube is $168 if i can't live without the ability to move the butt stock into a position ill likely never shoot with it in (i'm actually not positive the extra grooves can't be cut on the recoil tube to put the stock wherever i want it, maybe a crafts project some day)
Man that's a bummer and you probably forked over a pretty penny for a clone😂
I have an m4, shoot it right out the box and i did have failures, but i blame it on the manufacturer oil bc it was swimming in it. I clean it, lubed it ran better but still have issue with the low brass. Have less then 50 shells, from what i read is that i have to run 50 of high velocity shells and it should run flawless
New to the channel. Not sure what it is but I find myself watching the entire thing. Probably bc you don't spend an hour making scripted movies or some other nonsense.
Anyways, subbed and excited for the next one!
They are a fine range toy to scratch the benelli itch, but ive seen too many fail in class to trust my life to them. If you have serious use intentions, or high rounf count intentions, just get the M4. If youre on a budget, get the beretta a300 ultima patrol or a mossberg 940jm pro. Both are double the gun of any turknelli
I have the Panzer, I will say the ARGO gas pistons are drenched in oil from shipping. Those have to be completely dry for the gun to operate properly.
The answer for me would be based on intended use and longevity testing. At the price point from what I saw they all fit their own criteria to justify price. The real test is if the panzer or orthos could hold up to continued abuse for as long as the benelli has proven it can.
take panzer apart and clean it and lube. Good to go! Havent had a malfunction with over 1000+ rounds. Also run in it 3 gun and shotgun matches
AKSA S4 best I've shot clone...so I bought one. It runs everything, quick trigger, smooth action and accurate. Can't really complain after 800+ shells through it.
I’ve been running a Benelli M4 a lot lately, I have it set up to accept esstac shotgun cards and love it. Any suggestions/recommendations on mounting a light without changing the handgaurd?
Freedom Fighter Tactical is in the process of marketing an excellent sling/light mount.
Go there for all your m4 stuff.
The m4 needs nothing other than a 7 shot tube if you don't have one.
What do you think needs to be upgraded in the panzer to make it a more reliable gun
Just the little Parts in the bolt carrier and the trigger group. I put a bunch of Benelli OEM Parts in there. Springs, O-Rings, firing pin, hammer. Little cheap stuff But from Benelli. Run the crap out of it with no issues. I love the panzer m4 I got from PSA. Me review is on their website under the marine version.
Buy a Benelli m4!
i've seen some clones get some peening on the bolt carrier right where the pistons impact it, so the bold carrier and the pistons themselves are the parts i'd consider replacing first
You have a LE/MIL barrel model which does not come choked. All other M4s/M1014 models come with internally threaded choked barrels using benellis Crio chokes.
My panzer m4 my Genelli is a beast it just works. Hundreds of rounds no malfunctions except on Fiocchi 00 buck it won’t cycle it. Rio trap shoot super x bird shot military 00 rounds all slugs white box all cycle great. Great gun for the money.
M4 owner here. Its the king of all shotguns for a reason. The clones can only come so close. But that S4 has my attention with the choke compatibility
Weird...M4s where I live come with chokes. I'm not in the US so this could be an import restriction type deal?
@@1SmokedTurkey1 I live in America and I have a benelli M4 and it has removable chokes. I didn’t know there were models without them, but apparently there are.
I wouldn’t bother with the Orthos S4. Unreliable,multiple failure to feeds and butt stock came loose on mine after 75 rounds. Sent back for warranty.
A word to the wise it doesn't matter what the weapons history is If you're receiving it for the first time always always take your pick and swab mop wire brush, nitro solvent/Gunscrubber, whatever...do your thing🎉 to clean the barrel bote before firing the weapon--at very minimum
Depending what's in there there could be cosmoline cutting oil sulfur base cutting oil, wax, rust,
Never fire a weapon without first policing the barrel bore.....at minimum.
My buddy has an M4 and I have the Orthos and we came to pretty much the same conclusion in which they’re too similar to tell a difference really but the trigger and recoil management of the Orthos is slightly better.
This is a great video showing how they performed out of the box. But what makes the Benelli M4 legendary is its reliability in the long run. TFB has tested quite a few shoguns now, and those cheap Turk guns rarely hold up to even 500 shells. My Benelli M4 went over that within two range visits years ago, and it is still the shotgun I trust the most.
TFB's test on the Maverick 88 sold me on it. Bought it ran a box of 00 buck through it, no cleaning, after removing the bamboo stick and 0 hiccups. Swapped the stock for the Fab defense recoil absorbing adjustable grip stock and love it even more.
@@mongop177 Yeah, Maverick 88 has always been a solid budget option.
I have been recommending people get a good pump action from Mossberg if their budget isn't enough for a reliable semi-auto. A300 Patrol dropped that entry-level to 900, which is awesome.
Have a friend who went with FN SLP when I warned him not to miss the deal when 1301 gen2 tactical was just over 1100. He missed the deal, sold that FN SLP because it wasn't running on everything he want to shoot. Then bought a 1301 at a much higher price.😂
@@JohnZ556 DEFINITELY should have listened to your advice. By once cry once.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
U have the m4 and the orthos. And I almost don't shoot my benelli anymore I find the orthos to be nearly as good. So if I wanna mess around and shoot a shotgun I use the orthos most the time. I actuslly haven't had any malfunctions on the orthos. But I'd still say the benelli is more reliable just because of its history. But both are good and the orthos is more fun and I think once I have some more rounds threw it is consider using it as a home defense shotgun
HEY PV, On the 9mm is there any load data 115gn or 124? Any info on fps? Been shooting 7.2 Var then to 6.9 using 124, not shot a 115 yet?
The S4 has been at the top of my wishlist for a while, thanks for showing off the ODG.
I have a benelli m4 I love the thing but I'm really curious about that s4. I think I have to get one now after seeing this. I mean if it's reliability and longevity are even remotely close to a benelli for that price it's for sure worth it
I bought the Orthos because of a few reviews I saw on YT and then actually spoke to one of them and told me after a few thousand rounds it shoots awesome. I figured with the upgrades I will take a shot.
I also spoke to Armsco and their is a lifetime guaranty. So I took a shot.
Glad I did - I posted on here a few times - but again - no failures - shoots light as hell for a 12 gauge.
Really happy with the purchase. I didnt want to spend $2.5-$3.0K on an upgraded Benelli and now the Baretta 1301's are $1900 without the upgrades.
This really helps me. I appreciate it because I am looking for a shotgun but not for $2000 and I have been looking at the panzer so this really helps
Then do yourself a favor and go Mossberg 590a1 and never look back.
There is nothing in the real world that you will ever really need more than the 590a1.
Yeah, the 1301LTT and the Benelli m4 are nice, I have both, but...
My ben m4 takes chokes. I don't know where you got that m4, but you should have some serious questions about it, is it a USA made one or an import?
I have the MAC 1014. Runs solid... even with low brass.
Picked up my benelli m4 h20 at scheels awhile back for $2,100. 1 malfunction using bird shot. No other malfunctioning issues with hundreds of rounds of buck and slugs
I like that you're doing this comparison and will be interested to see how it pans out. With that said, I do favor my Beretta 1301👌
Hey bro love all your stufff. I just wanted to ask for your over professional opinion. I am a recreational shooter and i want to become more maybe even comp. But at the very least every weekend. I have a s&w mp 357 and a eaa 45. I have been looking at canik 9mm. I want something out of the box i can not only have fun with but comp. If i want to. I would be fine with trigger change and things of that of that kind down the road. Could you give me any advice. Would like some thing that shoots flat and reddot. Thank you for any advice.
I would have tried you on insta or Facebook book but I do not have any other social media. Thanks again.
All depends on budget but canik is a solid option
Any of the canik would be in my price range. Would you recommend one over the other? I have looked them all over and I'm am able to get anyone of them. I would like something with a red dot. I just don't know what to go with. What would be the best in your opinion? And I like them all so color or design doesn't matter I just want a accurate nail driver I can go target shooting with every weekend. I'm wanting to get back into it because my sun is finally at the age want something for use to do together. Even go to comps together. Don't are about winning just spending time with my son. Thanks for answering. Most people would be to busy to comment back @@PewView
@@PewViewAny of the canik would be in my price range. Would you recommend one over the other? I have looked them all over and I'm am able to get anyone of them. I would like something with a red dot. I just don't know what to go with. What would be the best in your opinion? And I like them all so color or design doesn't matter I just want a accurate nail driver I can go target shooting with every weekend. I'm wanting to get back into it because my sun is finally at the age want something for use to do together. Even go to comps together. Don't are about winning just spending time with my son. Thanks for answering. Most people would be to busy to comment back @PewView
I had a 1301 and a benelli M4, the M4 was incapable of cycling target ammo, I could outrun the trigger and cost way too much and had too many issues for me to keep it. Kept the 1301 and haven’t looked back
Who does the porting for you on shotguns?? Or did the panzer m4 come from factory with the ported barrel?
The killer of any semi auto or pistol or firearm… ever….. Winchester white box.
WHY you say that???
I am curious as to why you say this. I use the Walmart red box stuff as my test ammo in any semi auto shotgun I buy. If it runs that, it’ll run anything.
White box a better test ammo?
Literally never had any issues using winchester ammo...
@@HavocRPandemoniumOfficalthere’s nothing “wrong” with it. I think killer is overstating the case.
I will say, however, that it is pretty low powered, so some guns may not cycle well using it. It’s also dirty as hell. Like shockingly dirty. Whatever powder they’re using leaves so much more carbon than anything else I’ve shot, and I’ve shot just about everything under the sun.
So it’s not really a gun killer, but it’s generally underpowered, sometimes doesn’t cycle well, and dirty.
Shoot that’s all you need man to put stuff down! I remember when they were $10-$15 a box at Walmart lol
Curious why you didn’t include the MAC m4 clone?
Just got my Orthos Raider SBS in, cant wait to make the video on it
Id like to know if ppl would prefer the s4 over a 1301 tactical, prices are close to eachother
I have both and I do favor my m4 over my 1301LTT.
@d7dun1010 you bought 2 1400$ shotguns, nice lol.
Must have said it wrong, about $1700 each!
Thank you for letting me know about my error.
Have a good day!
Curious what you think of the mossberg 940 jm pro.
I love mine and have never had an issue or malfunction with it from whitebox to 1 1/4 oz slugs.
As you ran through the description of these three 5:20 out of the box (OOTB) shotguns 5:44 You went through the Panzer M4 description and said 5:50 it's only $700. I can't find a $700 OOTB version of that gun. It ranged from $430 to $599. Can you post the upgrades that you did, had done, or that THAT 1 came with?
I wasn't supposed to get any other guns until I got my shotgun after I got my RIFLE I've since gotten a few.It's still having gotten my shotgun, LOL
I was eyeballing black aces, the mac 1014, and the panzer m4 Shotgun for home defense AND Hunting. Can you do a comparison video for these 3 shotguns?...
UPDATE:
I went with the panzer M4. Got it for about 419 - 439 something like that. Paid about the same and upgrades so roughly $850.
First thing out if the box get factory grease/varnish off. Thats about it after that they tend to run great
I’m deciding between Panzer M4 vs MAC 1014. I just wish they are available locally so I can see and hold it before buying either one of them.
Go to a gun show😊?
@ Thanks for this suggestion
i have a panzer and when i got it i had issues with the bcg. i got an early orthos arms titanium nitride bcg and the thing has ran amazing since. iv got around 800 rounds with it set up like this and had only 2 frailer to feed.
I'm not in the M 4 tax bracket, but I picked up a Mossberg 930 SPX Tactical during Covid, been a good Truck gun..........
930 spx is a great fighting shotgun!
I sent my Orthos Raider in for warranty after three boxes of shells. Ran 1550fps 2 shot through it, 75 rounds. Of every six shot ‘group,’ every single series had a failure to feed on the third or fourth shell. I am very disappointed in the lack of reliability for a shotgun that retails for $1,500. Also, the butt stock began to separate from the receiver, 1/8” gap and very loose after 75 rounds. Poor quality from Orthos. Disappointed.
I have the Benelli m 4 super 90. Haven't had any issues with it.
Inflation is a MFer.
Benelli M4 Tactical in 2006... $570ish after taxes.
They're $1200+ used now.
I know this is not a 1301 video but I opted for the Beretta 1301 and love it. Eats anything,anytime and I can’t pull the trigger as fast as you do but I can’t our run it.
I have watched enough of the James reeves 500 round shotgun burn downs to know that those clones will probably have some catastrophic failure after 300-400 slugs. i have an M4 and i have put over 1500 slugs and 2500 rounds of bird shot through it, i have only cleaned it twice and it works 100% of the time. If you are looking at getting a shotgun i strongly advise not getting one from turkey, they have a very bad track record.
Edit: i just looks and James Reeves has done a burn down on the panzer and it technically passed. personally the number of malfunctions seems excessive. my only question is will it hold up to 10000 or 20000 rounds like the benelli routinely does?
Not a very in-depth test but still entertaining!! I’ve had a panzer, after the 100-300 round break in it technique works. I’m with you, ANY shotgun should handle birdshot no problem!! Most of the “cheapies” don’t Lol 😂😢 the orthos is interesting for sure, there’s a couple companies kicking ass in the semiautomatic shotgun market, you said it best tho… time will tell 🤷♂️👍
I have a real Benelli M4 as well as a Sulan Arms Tac 12 . The Benelli is clearly better but idk about 5 or 6 times better. Don’t get me wrong, I would choose the Benelli 10/10 times . The Sulan likes defensive loads but if you lube it up a bit she runs 95+ percent reliability with white box but 100% with heavier loads . The Benelli eats all but to be fair I did get it lightly used and probably already had a little oil on it .