The State Of Classic NEEDS Talking About Right Now | Cataclysm Classic | Season of Discovery
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
- This is a video ive been meaning to put out for a while now, its just other things got in the way first and the list of things I wanted to bring up kept getting longer.
It ended up being a variety of subjects across Classic including Cataclysm Classic and Season of Discovery.
I also decided to do this in a less scripted way compared to my usual stuff to see how it goes - so let me know!
The State Of Classic NEEDS Talking About Right Now | Cataclysm Classic | Season of Discovery
Crix Interview with Blizzard: • I interviewed Blizzard...
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Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro
01:00 - Cataclysm Classic
15:30 - Season of Discovery
39:33 - Class Balance Season of Discovery
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Songs Used:
► WoW OST
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#wow #classicwow #mmorpg 
Игры
Hi all, trying out something a little bit different today and having a talk over the general state of Classic, both Cata and SoD.
Went on longer than expected overall, but there was just a lot I wanted to say, so better to just get it all down whilst I was there recording.
Sorry about the camera issues with it going out of focus, thought I fixed it a few times and it kept swapping back without me noticing, will fix for next time.
Errors on my part:
4.2 was the Firelands release, not Dragon Soul
Let me know thoughts on the vid and whether this is the type of content you'd like to see more of!
Opinions: Appreciated
Effort: Valued
Beard: Glorious
Hey, you missed the link to Crix' interview.
It's long for your normal videos, yeah, but considering Noah Caldwell-Gervais' longest is over 9 hours, it's not as bad as it could be. :P
i want to raid bit am petrified bc of how people act when your new to something ive played casually for 20 yrs but now im lil serious about it but have never raided -fire mage
@@0d3X updated now - thanks
Incursions are probably something that I've somehow found to be more anti fun than island expeditions
not only that but they just directly contribute to the massive inflation problem on classic, blizz doesnt want to ban the thousands and thousands of bots because theyre all 15/month for them
Just do what Turtle did. They make world buffs wipe when you enter a raid so you can't use them. They are only bonuses for people doing open world content.
SoM proved that people like world buffs and miss them. Not everybody ofc, but most of them do. Chronoboon is the best solution. Also you don't need wbuffs to clear the raids, it's an option for parsers.
@@Dirtnose I am not implying anything. I am simply saying that world buffs are a good addition to the game, that lets people go out in the world to collect them. I don't know why so many people lock themselves up thinking that they need wbuffs for raids. You don't. Raids are easy. You only need them if: a) You're really struggling on a boss; b) you're parsing.
Or they could do the complete opposite and give them out as a raid aura to everyone and just balance the raids around everyone always having them
or you know, just play on turtle lmao. or epoch or wallcraft when thats out
blizz will never do classic+ right
@@Kshaadooit ceases becoming an option when there’s a tangible difference. Look at the archeology weapons, do you think even 1% of the people farming for the weapons actually want to farm archeology?
When I logon and see people asking for gear score, world buffs, addons, then reserving a bunch of loot on top of that, it make me instantly log the fuck out. Why would I wanna play with scum?
Yeh all this talk about how "hard" and "soft" they are over loot that I see in classic is very disturbing. I do not remember this nonsense back in the day. Then you have people...in pre patch no less...making heroic dungeon farm group for JP requesting wildly over the top ilvl to join. Obviously you can ignore this insanity but the fact people have no shame in advertising it is a pathetic reflection of the game.
Online games are not for you then lol. Stupid people exist everywhere but some of the things you're complaining about are totally reasonable requests..and there are plenty of pugs that don't hr or require anything...join those.
I am crying and the reason I joined after long time when I stopped at wotlk and returned in shadowlands. It was different, no communication just questions about your gs i level..
@@seagullphilosopher2173 nothing wrong at all when geared people want to make geared groups to efficiently farm their stuff.
Players are the problem but it’s more the gold buying. Boosting. Cheating.
Guilds buying thousands of gold is more of an issue than them having guild standards for consumes and buffs enchants.
IMO the reason TBC had consistent numbers throughout its life is because it's the closest thing we've ever gotten to "vanilla plus". Raids and dungeons weren't faceroll but weren't impossible, purples weren't handed to you, and the talents made hybrid classes viable without completely re working them. For as fondly as it's remembered, the later tiers of Wrath is where the game really started to fall off. The numbers Wille showed kinda prove that point.
Well said.
Ulduar is def when guilds/server populations began to fall off hard
@Dom-si1mn the vanilla world was still relevant too during TBC. looking back TBC still made horrifically bad choices in almost every way, however it's true it's the closest thing to vanilla plus. =)
Tbc classic didn’t have consistent numbers. It fell off hard a couple months in.
@@blackyvertigo We get it you were a melee player in TBC and upset that you didn't get lust stacked and sometimes didn't get WF totem. You can take your rage/cope elsewhere tho because TBC was in fact consistent throughout its lifespan in terms of the people that played it.
tbc heroics was some of the most fun I've had in classic
absolut true !
Yes.
Are you mad ?? Blood furnace is the hardest most overtuned dungeon of all time and can't be done with a certain comp. Don't even mention how much better prot pal was to any other tank in tbc.
@@ZadenWoW I tanked everything on my feral who has no aoe. Was fun working together instead of mindlessly pressing buttons facerolling
@@sNNNNNable If they only knew how much fun warrior tanking was in BC heroics . The rotation was crazy fast but so much fun pulling 4/5 groups. Tanking is boring now.
Your comments on SOD are dead on the money. This phase has done a wonderful job of making me not want to play it, and judging by the obvious population drops I am not alone.
Phase 1 was a breath of fresh air, phase 2 was a double take and people gave the benefit of the doubt saying stuff like well it's only lvl 40 we'll see what happens and finally phase 3 is the nail in the coffin with blizzard reminding us how they truly don't know shit about what they are doing whatsoever and have no idea what direction to take sod (incursions plus the thousands of xp boosts it's like the wow devs forgot the most meaningful part of classic was LEVELING and they make it very clear they just want sod to be a raid logging beta test)
I stopped for a double whammy. 1. I was a rogue, which was garbage in Gnomer and no one wanted me. 2. I got to 40, grinded for my mount and then they added the exp boost and reduced the mount cost less than a week later. I felt pretty deflated, I could have just waited and not worked so hard...
@Lazris59 same thing happened to me with the mount, it made me realize that we are literally on a pbe realm and devs don't know wtf to do about it. Stuff like the resilience buff for pvp is another open and shut case in why the sod dev(s?) Are absolutely CLUELESS.
What are you on about SOD is the most fun I have had in ages
@@tonoshikikai my great grandpa said the same thing at bingo night pal
Guild is dying in SOD. Having 2 phases be 3-day lockouts and 10 man was a lot of fun, easy to organise and quick for just a few friends coming over from wrath. Going to 20m 7 day lockout has meant merging, finding out the other guild has different motives to raid, dealing with loot drama, lots of absences and an overall lack of enthusiasm to raid. I think SOD has potential, but I don't think there will be many left to see it.
i dont think the raid lockout matters at all for your downfall. 7day resets are unarguably a lot easier to plan around than 3 day. but i can see going from 10 to 20m would be a problem, although you should have seen it coming considering there was only 20 and 40man content when it came to raiding in classic
3day lockouts suuuucked so much. I much prefer 7days
Also I’m also no fan of 10mans. It‘s way to tight group compisition wise.
sod should have started as 20m that would have made things much easier
SoD Phase 1 felt like something close to classic +, and then Phase 2 and 3 turned out to be just a WoW Retail-Lite, just go as fast as possible to max level, and do some raids. What I wanted from SoD, is actually sticking to the name, and discovering new additional quests, some changes to less popular zones etc...
I feel the same way
I play phase 2 and was okay, but phase 3 yes, is retail.
Honestly the whole parsing culture is SOD is fucking ridiculous, like congratulations a group of full purple parsers can clear a fight 30 seconds faster than a group full of green parsers 😂
True😂 but ironforge pro gets player server number by the amount of people logging 😂 Take a second to understand what I just said YEP there’s that many people parsing
You find it funny until you're in a group of mouth breathers and wipe repeatedly on a simple boss.
There is a reason parsing culture is even bigger in SoD than f@king retail, some classic players have legit learning disabilities and once you hit that critical number of them in a raid you'd rather drag your balls through hot coal.
Clearing a full raid in 1 hour compared go 2 hours+ is nice though. Many people play the game to compete with others to play to the best of their capabilities.
If half the raid is a 30 average parser, the cleartime will be too slow and you will lose world buffs, which is not fun
@@Valandril keeping real this is only an EU thing 😅 We have jobs over here
@@zometthecomet in other words, you enjoy being mediocre and putting in low effort. To each their own
The open secret that you nailed on the head is that difficult content scares people away from the game. If we've learned anything about Classic it is that people want to log in and raid with the homies in a raid they KNOW they are going to kill the boss in. It is a de-stresser from their stressful lives. Almost all of the people I knew who claimed they wanted difficult prog, quit when it got difficult. I think Blizz may finally have learned this.
What you're personally desiring in Cata Classic is probably not what you think it is. Pre-Nerf t11 had many unkillable bosses on 10m, and required a brutal amount of class stacking and countless hours of raiding.
Great Comment. Post Nerf T11 is the perfect difficulty for the classic playerbase imo
They should just do those ICC buffs for all future raids, probably remove some mechanics too since one Cata normal boss can still be more intense than all Molten Core bosses combined. Let the hardcore players do some fun prog first, then let the casuals get their due a month later. Because as Wille said, those hard bosses are so memorable for those that try.
Only reason I played classic was because it was like an interactive background task to do while talking shit in discord with the lads. No interest in difficult content. I only want to do it if I can clear while mostly drunk and not paying attention to what I'm doing.
@@noname-gp6hk Ya, just dont go begging that you should clear heroic.
Lots of the difficulty in the pre-nerf content was due to the fact that casters were just about guaranteed to OOM early in each fight. You need a resto shaman dropping mana tide on cooldown, along with a druid throwing around their innervate on cooldown as well. If players are getting gear out of titan rune dungeons, they may not have that difficulty. The OOM situation was not so severe when Firelands came out because by then players had lots of spirit on their gear.
SOD has been fun, but a thing about Vanilla is that I liked that there wasn't *really* a mandatory grind for most of the game. Incursions have worn me out. If I wanted shitty dailies I'd go to retail. Also, World Buffs are cringe and inflate parses which people use as a metric of skill in SOD. Get 'em out or limit them to 1: the current raid's. Just my take tho.
Incursions are so far from mandatory, there are other gold farms that are similar (ZF soloing for example) if it's the gold that makes you feel it "mandatory". Just don't do them if you don't like them, it isn't that hard.
Classic raiding has also always been about preparation (resistance gear, consumes and yes, world buffs), WBs are a core part of classic raiding
We're in a terrible part of the levels imho. Everything fun is just barely out of reach. P3 should've let us get all the way to 60.
funny u say that cause retail doesnt have any mandatory dallies lmfao
@@KC-py5vq I dipped in, what was it, 9.1? The one with the Fyrakk stuff when the underground zone just launched, saw all the world quests and events I felt I had to do, and said nope. Have no idea if 9.2 has a grind or not, to be honest.
@@grick7379they're there to do, sure, but they give you, at most, some gold or slight gear upgrades. you could absolutely get your gear from heroics and just hit the raids/m+ for the rest of the expansion if you wanted. i haven't done world quests in ages. i haven't even really touched the rep grinds and im plenty capable of heroic raiding.
classic was fun, but once people abused gear scores and 'must have X' or 'must have XYZ gearscore' for basic shit it was done. on top of that those guild gdkp's basically killed the pug scene. they were a huge ploy to just make a few people giga happy and that's it.
yes GDKP is one of the biggest problems of classic
LOVE YOU WILLE. Even tho you're betraying your Warlock brethrens in Cata.
He better play lock
It’s one of the best expacs for lock in classic
Mist>cata>wotlk>everything up to legion
@@virallockdemo in Dragonflight is pretty awesome ngl
I'll never forgive you for betraying the demon dudes
@@virallock ive seen mixed reviews - is it demo or affli as the lock powerhouse for cata?
@@drafman1 it is demo for pve for pvp i would say affliction is better cuz there r more comps u can play in destro on the other hand is probl the best 1v1 class in cata
When Phase 3 dropped my wife and I couldn't play for a couple days. By the time we could, every one of our guildies was already 50 and we hardly knew where to start. We stopped play altogether after she got to 50 and I got to like 48.
Instead of making leveling ten times longer like they should have. They make it faster. Devs are not smart.
Same thing happened to me!! I persisted to 50 and didn't even bother with ST lol.
You nailed the incursion thing. The moment I did it once I realized… oh god. It’s Cenerion Silithids all over again. Earthstrike was an incredible trinket. It was so much AP and it lasted me all the way to Bloodlust Brooch.
The trinket was awesome. The grind was horrendous.
Am I the only one who has positive memories about the Cenarion Hold Field Duties?
Let's be honest, Vanilla WoW had very lacking end game content. Basically raiding and battle grounds. Farming the Earthstrike at least made me feel that I have something else to do, even if for a limited time.
I don't want to generalize, it might have been only me, but I liked it.
@@ffarkasm I went hard for it. I was already having issues with my then girlfriend at the time trying to farm the trinket just made everything worse. “First your rank 14, then this little green thing”.
We broke up around the time I was doing naxxramas progression.
Please make more videos like these - love the format - obviously when you need to say something you feel needs to be said. Have loved your videos from way back.
Hey Willie, love your thoughts.
I've played SoD super hard and I agree with most of your takes. I have a couple ideas on that portion I wanted to share.
1) World buffs: World buffs need to persist through death, that way there's still an impetus to go out into the world, get them (pvp for them if needed on those servers), and complete the raid in a timely fashion. I think that's the best middle ground for those who feel it's too punishing. For an average guild you still have to focus up in order to complete the content in 1 hour to retain songflower, but you're also not punished for someone else's mistakes.
2) Caster balance: You hit the nail on the head that int/sp itself need to grant more on a foundational level in order for them to have a ghost of a chance at competing in phase 4. This is going to require striking a balance between a lot of competing forces that I'm pessimistic the classic team is going to be able to provide, but I think it's what needs to happen.
3) Questing/Dungeoning: These unequivocally need to be the best thing for people to do to level. It's a tried and true system and incursions killed so much desire people have to level or do anything else in the open world. They could make relevant bis gear drop from dungeons in the open world in p4 on a low drop chance to keep giving people a reason to go run content to help out friends or guildies.
We all know what happed to SoD .Nightmare Incursions took 80% of the population into 1 area . Somehow Blizzard found a way to ruin a good thing.
SoD was fun while it lasted. I liked 10 man raids. The runes became insane annoying to get P3. Being pushed to have all the buffs is a drag for casual play. Get DMF, Songflower, World Buff, every consume. Too much
I'm a SoD player (Vanilla/TBC enjoyer) and agree a lot with what you shared on the state of SoD. I think world buffs are okay in SoD - the chronoboon has made it so much better, but it definitely feels bad when you lose them in raid.
This type of video is what I really look forward to seeing from you - you've got great perspective and I enjoy hearing your takes!
They already have the perfect solution to world buffs. They need to make all raids have a hellscream buff like ICC that has all the world buffs or a new omni buff that don't stack/override external world buffs (also hopefully helps casters out instead of just giving melee 4 buffs). if you want world buffs for leveling you can still get them and the flavor is preserved, but now the pressure/feels-bad not to die in raid is removed. if people want "a challenge" they can talk to a guy up front to turn it off even.
I just want pure vanilla released again... This is becoming less and less "classic" at this point
Same
True.
Willie was one of the loudest voices asking for changes. Well, he got his changes.
Blizzard leaving in world buffs in SOD is what killed it for me. Im ok with ONE unique world buff per raid tier but now realizing that p4 will be the full round of world buffs + new ones and new consumables in ST Im done.
doubtful st will be at 60 same with st wbuff dude. youre bitching about old wbuffs lol
Is that really what’s making it end for you? Wild shit I see from the WoW community
World buff farming was player crying about it and bliz giving you a way to save it back in vanilla I played on pvp server every one raid same time if you laged back and afk when raid was moving to zone you lost ur buffs if you had them
it seems like most classic players like wbs
They need to make the WBs persist through death in SOD. It's already so casual friendly.
The biggest problem with SoD is that their is very little if any playtesting. Its just a bunch of throw a bunch of ideas and see what sticks. It is being sold as an experiment and I am just hoping it leads to a better Classic+ in the end.
Exactly forcing the player base to play a live version of the PTR with tuning every single week is horrible. Playing a class that is under tuned and hoping for a fix every single week is ridiculous. The fact that a purple parsing mage is doing the same amount of damage as a green parsing hunter feels horrible.
don't understand why we have heroic and normal raids if blizzard decides that neither of them are for difficult content. Might as well just put it back under one difficulty and end it there
Yup. Hardcore raiders pretty much already skip normal mode entirely these days. So making heroic easier is just going to drive them away faster. Meanwhile the more casual players who manage just fine in normal and maybe try heroics later into the phase will still never clear heroic raids.
That's why we were given normal and heroic modes to begin with - to cater to both demographics. So long as heroic is mathematically possible and not an RNG nightmare the more sweaty guilds love the difficulty.
I think it's more so that Cata players are getting shafted because Blizz know it's not as popular as Vanilla/TBC/WOTLK. Managing pre-nerf takes time, whereas throwing everything on 4.2 is easy. They are going to put less dev resources into Cata since they diversified successfully (retail, sod/era/hardcore, etc.).
The whole game is ruined. Just bring back one PvP and PvE realm for the first trilogy indefinitely.
AND KEEP THE PVP SERVER BALANCED WITH HORDE/ALLIANCE. This was the reason i stoppen playing classic. My server was 99% horde and 1%alliance.. what is the use for pvp server then
All most of us wanted was an official version of Turtle WoW. original zones with some additional quests, class balancing and tuning, and then new content and zones in the old world.
We wanted Turtle Classic but got Ascencion Classic.
True lol
You are never getting that - blizzard is never going to create new lore outside of retail.
The problem with 10 man raids is that class comp becomes MASSIVE. Remember in phase 2 when rogues couldn’t get into a raid at all? Or phase 1 when you could only get into a raid as an enhancement shaman if you were tanking? Bigger raids allow people to actually play what they’re passionate about and love.
I don't get blizzard why is it so hard to do raid-wide buffs and every class works to bring. It's such an obvious solution to a obvious problem.
@@Tyrith_ because then people will bring a priest, a hunter a shaman and 37 warriors…
True, but smaller groups allow u to share loot better, it sucks to go into raid and see how an item that you been looking for weeks finally drops and now u have to pray that u win roll against 10 plus people. U either go tank or heal or u might not get any gear for weeks on end as dps
@@borislovothered8124 yeah, for a seasonal realm, they need to adjust the loot systems.
THIS ISN'T THE FAULT OF 10 PLAYER RAIDS. PEOPLE IN CLASSIC 2019 BROUGHT 30 FURY WARRIORS. IT IS THE PLAYERS. MY GUILD BROUGHT ROGUES AND WARRIORS AND FROST MAGES IN P2 AND DID FINE, 6/6 EVERY WEEK. BIGGER RAIDS CRUSH SMALLER GUILDS.
I'm glad I quit SoD right at the beginning of P3. When I heard how jacked up incursions were, I never logged back into sod again. Playing HC right now while waiting for cata. It's been a good palate cleanser.
You heard someone say a thing and quit without even trying it yourself? Yikes dude lmfao
@@dancemattdanceify he's right though. incursions are trash. boring loops, over and over and over. literally the dumbest content.
I'm the same way as far as wanting progression. It was early in my raiding "career" and the feeling you'd get from pulling bosses so many times and then finally downing them was so satisfying. Plus, back then the uber elite players were few and far between so even if you were a regular guild, you'd be checking other guilds' progress and competing with them, but of course over time, the elite players found each other, joined up, and blew any chance you had at being server first out of the water unless you really made an effort to get into those teams. Either way, that's what's fun and rewarding about progression raiding, working at improving strats until you, as a group, finally got the boss down.
When games start feeling like a chore that really hurts player bases. Totally agree on world buffs/consumes and farming for raids.
No one has to get world buffs.
It’s optional.
Don’t join a. Try hard guild
Yep. Incursions were a chore and not fun. Like if I’m not having fun, it’s time to go. My sub ran out last month. No plans to renew.
@@markblaze4909 the problem is, it's the meta. So pretty much every guild does this. It's not about try-hards
The Season Of Discovery drop off has been pretty sad to watch. After the success of Hardcore and then the fun change up that was SoD Season 1, the next two seasons have shown that Blizzard were actually pretty clueless as to what the appeal of Classic+ is in the first place. It’s supposed to feel like the vanilla experience but with enough of a twist to appeal to those that wanted something different. I don’t think SoD went far enough to carve out enough of a unique identity for itself.
Also, and this is just a personal nitpick, but calling Cata Classic, ‘Cataclysm Classic’, seems wrong, because the Classic Era of WoW ended after the conclusion of WOTLK.
Thats the thing no matter what they did you can never satisfy wow players or more specifically mmo players. Either not enough content, not hard, not different, not enough change. Impossible task
Yeah let’s call it Cataclysm Original Recipe
@@mikedavid1945 Current SoD is the worst of both worlds tho. It's definitely not Vanilla WoW, but it's also way less polished than retail or cata classic.
Phase 1 was superb. Absolutely superb. but they should have opened up Rune vendors for all the runes CURRENTLY in the 1st phase going into phase 2 and so on. So at least you can just go buy what you need instead of having to "discover" them over and over again.
never seen you on the camera before, CLASSY FELLA! and great video as always of course, respect!
I have never burned out quicker in any game than I have in SoD. I played a lot in P1, but got quickly bored and just wanted to continue leveling. For P2 I hit 40 and asked myself why am I even doing this shit? SoD is not the Classic+ I wanted. It's boring as fuck, it feels like a butchered version of vanilla, nothing more, nothing less.
I still respect the shit out of the team for even doing this. But it's obvious that many don't enjoy the idea of level bands. I just want to hit 60 and go at it man...
I agree, sod feels very half baked and more of a beta for future classic projects
@davidwollmuth2459 the fact that they introduced incursions as well as stuff like 80% perma xp boosts shows they don't know what was so magical about classic, they just want to push people into endgame content like blizz has been doing for decades. Sad the player base is so undeniably brain washed to never see this either
@@bookbookbook1 As much as i love leveling in wow there comes a point where it becomes miserable to do so. I made the lvl 60 grind and on a pally no less in classic vanilla, and happy that i did, however i never want to do that again. When it gets to the point where you are fighting for every level taking 4,5, or even 6 hours just to get 1 level it becomes an absolute slog to get through. I will always advocate that leveling is apart of the experience, but in the 15 years i have played it has been for the most part the minority opinion, and its thanks to the player base not blizz. They want the end game raiding, and only see leveling as a means to an end only to ever do it once, maybe twice and never again. These players sell that this is the pinnacle of the game experience, and coupled with just a natural tendency of players congregating towards whatever the level cap is the process of leveling becomes less desirable. Its just one of the unfortunate flaws of mmos.
@@bookbookbook1the XP boosts are fine, but incursions killed it for me. Perhaps they should have just baked in the XP like they did for season of mastery
@tesladrew2608 xp boost is whatever to me. If it's after the fact like how halfway through phase 2 they added an xp boost from 25 to 40 to get people up to speed. It looks like in phase 3 they decided to completely throw away the original leveling system by adding an xp boost on phase 3 launch as well as incursions. It literally took 1 or 2 days to get to 50 and once you hit 50 you had like 700 gold in your pockets as well as a near full tier set of gear from the incursion vendor. It's like they just openly want people to beta test st
I actually came back for Cata in retail after quitting early TBC and it was actually a ton of fun. I was with some old guildmates and content felt challenging and rewarding. I was hotly debating returning to classic again for that experience all over, but now I think I'm good until WW. I might dabble here and there in classic while playing retail, but not sure I'd bother going hard even though it was my favorite time playing with friends.
Should just pvp in cata. The absolute most fun!
Your perspective differs greatly from my own, ergo I am VERY interested in content such as this. Great job!
"leveling by questing made me feel like a sucker" exactly this. This is what made me step away from SOD. For what it's worth, I had a great time in phase 1 and early phase 2, but I dipped out before p3 even hit. Leveling is boring, and alts take too much time to get prepped
i stopped with SOD after p1, got burned out... and p2 was basiocally the same, get to max lvl, grind 1 raid to get op... felt incredibly like retail...
Impressive beard my friend. Fan of your videos for years!
Not alt friendly to a degree.
I leveled a War from 1-50 in a Week, not bad. That horrible part is doing Incursions again and 25 more Wild Offering runs for gear that I need.
dont forget all the runes :D
@@Kish_x2 wanna play arcane mage heals? Well then you gotta go across the map and collect 20 books in 20 different zones as well as kill 8 dark riders across the map all because the bis runes for mage heals are obtained that way. On the other hand if you wanna play fire mage then it takes like 5 minutes to get the necessary runes. Shit like this and the whole rune system is just such a stupid mistake in a game that already has problems with the game being centered around raid compositions
@@bookbookbook1 it's a pain in the ass even for the class with teleporting
The fast leveling ruins the game.
I like this format, it's good content in-between the more involved videos you do on the channel. It's a good way just to get your thoughts out on a specific topic that may or may not become a more in-depth video later on.
I grinded earthstrike and rockfury bracers for some reason. Warlock was OP enough to solo most of the bug elite grinds.
I stop playing SOD in phase 2, it’s too much of a trouble to get the runes.
Never thought a 20 year old game with easy raids would have such a min/max community
@@merick92the second raid wasn't that easy
Lol really. Out of all the actually issues with the game u claim it’s too hard. Lol
The real issue ai they boosted xp and have bots all over boosting. Gold selling buying cheating.
Runes are an issue in that they make the game too easy because they failed to increase the toughness and damage of the mobs.
SoD is a horrendous experiment that we have to overcome to get the best Classic + possible
SoD just showed us that Blizzard won't release the reins of their dev teams to actually experiment and have fun. "Cool new abilities! A twist on the classic format!" *gives valance druids eclipse, gives ele shaman lava burst, gives rogues HAT*. Wow, so creative...
Better off sticking with private servers. More love and dedication put into the final product.
most of us are waiting for SoD to be over to see what Blizzard learned, they have alot weighing on the SoD experiment
@@Frostgnaw Turtle WoW is phenomenal
@@AlexGaveiWhat makes it better than Classic+?
@@solofalcon They don't need to learn anything, they just need to do exactly what Turtle WoW does and that's it.
They had a golden opportunity in Cata to make levelling from 1-85 all in the new zones, skipping outland and Northend but their skeleton crew working on it could probably never even dream to implement that
F scaling. Ruins every single game.
Leveling is a means for an end. Scaling ruins that. Gtfo
@@markblaze4909
Scaling is garbage. Case closed.
Im all in for these videoes. I still remember your old intro, spot the gnome was so much fun!
wow its almost like people who wanted classic wanted classic not a bunch of changes and devs that cater to and protect streamers
normal players were not asking for overbuffed raids that did nothing but increase clear times. 50% more hp in nax sure fun
I mean I wanted buffer raids classic raids are hilarious.
@@erichall090909you have retail than. Where the raids are made stupidly hard for progression for streamers.
People just wanted classic for fun instead it ended up being parse simulator
pservers have been buffing naxx for years. It's simply too easy otherwise.
@@tasty8186 the majority want easy and fun
I wanted group finder in wotlk. When that wasn’t added at launch, I was out.
No body asked for junior developers to "fix" whatever they thought was a problem with the original launch, can't wait to see their philosophy on LFR.
I know lots of people don't like group finder, but as someone who only plays once or twice a week - I love it. If I made one change to classic, it would be group finder. I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority with that, though.
Ur the problem
cool format man, more of that please
The fact that they decided to go post nerf basically killed my desire to even try it. I remember raiding it as current content and I wanted to give it a shot now that I’m not new and actually understand how to play. :P
if it would have being a 2 years cata i would have said why not could have being fun but its only 1 year lmao time is gonna fly ngl
Brother 😂 I can’t see them keeping this going for longer than 5 months this 6-7 tops
Prenerf ulduar really hurt my guild, we had to replace people we liked playing with because they weren't good enough
Someone in my guild said it best: classic is best when it's easy. When raids are hard, the game dies.
Agreed. We already progressed in real wotlk and cataclysm. I didn't feel like try harding again and I quit in this version cause every1 wanted to do HC raiding all the time. Even casual guilds now are "semi hardcore" and demands to do all boss fights in HC. One night i was sitting there wiping in ICC and I just realised this isnt fun. I don't wanna be up to 00.00 and wipe in a game that has been out for 20+ years lol.
and Ulduar normal was hard?
Wrath attracted a lot of people who were bad at the game. No wonder Blizzard want the nerfed version of Cata.
@@tesladrew2608 and then my guild is the oposite. Lost players over and over because classic raiding is too easy so they went to retail or other games.
I've done literally nothing but digging for the epics and doing wintergrasp to cap honor before may 20th. No epics other than raptor bone map :*0
I left SoD for Cata. I Quiet Wow right after WotlK. So for me its my first time. But 14 years later, i dont have the time anymore, so im glad its going a bit easyer in Raids.
GDKPs happened to Classic. Nothing to really figure out. It's a mixture of a few things, with two really big ones being at the forefront. The first being that everyone with a youtube/twitch channel that plays games follows Asmongold literally everywhere because he has such a large share of the viewer market that he has a lot of imitators, posers, followers and copycats, some large, some small, that goes wherever Asmongold goes like Native Americans following Buffalo. When he plays Classic WoW, it pops off. Every server just about explodes in population. When he moves on, the game is nearly insta-dead. And those that remain ruin what little fun is left to be had by making everything cost gold. Wanna do a dungeon? Pay me. Wanna do a raid? Pay us. Wanna farm a particular material to raise the funds for GDKPs? Not on our watch, pal. People piss and moan about gold sellers, but not a single person who partakes in GDKP runs has clean money, whether they're aware of it or not, as most GDKP runs are so expensive you can't farm the gold through traditional means anymore and anyone who tells you otherwise is full of shit. And to any of you who are about to contest this idea, make a video of you making 60k-100k gold a week through just gathering and professions. Go ahead, I'll wait.
I bought an 80 boost and both my professions are BORKED. Reset to 0 and can't drop them either. So I can't do anything about it! 0/0 both profs, no way out. They have known about this bug for over 2 weeks and done nothing.
💔
Did you miss everything from the last 5 years that shows what a horrible company they are? Your own fault for giving them money
lmao rekt
Great vid, thanks for covering Classic
I quit after Phase 1 SoD. With the way it was, I knew the game would be more tedious and that Blizz would force players to only do the new stuff. It turned out exactly as I predicted. I like watching these video to thank myself for not wasting hundreds of hours on a seasonal version of the game doing boring, tedious grinds, farms, traveling. Blizzard tried to pile on usless new things. People were excited to try the new classes and raids, not enter a new grind fest. There is plenty to do with the classes alone. We didn't need new leveling, profession, and rep grinds. Let's not forget extremely tedious rune quests. SoD feels like the episode of South park. After doing the grind, now what? "Now we can play the game..."
I think professions needed a revamp. Most of the profession items are junk and require way too many mats. I wish profession crafted items would match up with dungeon drops and cut the material requirements in half.
Loving cata. It's fun. No reason I need to play the whole thing for it to be good.
Great video as usual! TY WillE!
You need to include what retail patches were releasing when to compare what was going on around Ulduar. Dragonflight S1 released Dec 13 2022, which is right around when Ulduar hit. No doubt this siphoned away a good chunk of would-be Warth raiders to the famed raid tier. There just isn't enough time in the day to play both games at a competitve level.
This might be a hot topic and I don't know what it's like on EU servers, but I believe gdkp's have had a negative affect on raids. Also a reason why people quit. Guilds fall apart due to people leaving for gdkps. What are your guys thoughts?
one can only hope cata is only a year, MOP waiting room baby
😂 week by week 😂 they rushing the fuck out this bro
Mop waiting room is right. I’ve been dreaming of a MoP since classic was first released. I never thought they’d do it, but now I’m so excited I’m gonna explode.
Problem is they are setting the stage for MoP very poorly. A bad Cata is telling me they aren't going to do MoP right either.
@@andromidiusall they have to do is re release it. MOP was just fine all the way through IMO
Timelines like this 12:00 need to be mapped over the launch of competing product, particularly Classic Hardcore and Season of Mastery/Season of Discovery.
I think what you're seeing for Ulduar/ICC, as opposed to tier 5, is the drop off in people playing alts. TOTGC and Naxx are incredibly alt friendly, people will try to come into the new tier with alts, then cut back.
Especially as TOTGC was probably harder than Ulduar - with the buffed items Ulduar kinda fell over after a few weeks, whereas people still failed occasional 50/50 clears in many casual groups throughout p4.
No way would I be in a progression raiding guild but even people like me would like watching it on RUclips. I wish they would give us pre-nerf Cata.
I was so bummed about LK. Don't get me wrong, I had fun, but I was really hoping for a progressive patch system like the original. Didnt get a chamce to play as much as I wanted because of drastic real world circumstances (all for the best, though!). Still had a lot of fun, but I think I'm done after LK. Really hoped there was at least a singular legacy LK server
Not having a legacy LK server was surprising, to say at least
Hey, love you content and format. You said you cleared 3 bosses in Beta but with 359 gear and felt a bit of progression. This is to be expected fully decked out in 359 gear. I played through whole Cata when it first released and was part of a Hardcore guild that raided up to 6 hours a day 3 days a week and I must say it was challenging at the beginning as we had 346 or even 333 items going into our first raid night. That for me was the best time as it was a great challenge, especially if you were a healer. After we got a bit of gear, lets say average of 355 we started to down heroic bosses no issue at all. And internet and forums were pretty active at that time so tactics were out pretty much the same day as the raid.
SoD had a great start, but I opted out early phase 3 mostly cause of the increase to 20 man, which killed my motivation, though some of those I played with stayed in the guild we fused with which is hood for them but I just thinks it too much. Looking forward to classic though cause 10- man and 25-man drops the same loot at the same ilvl and I have a solid guild of friends that I can raid with in 10-man.
One thing they need to do is speed these phases of SoD up! This phase should end right now but we are probably looking at another month of Sunken Temple raid logging. Play for 30 minutes and log off until the following week. We need more to do.
You say this like there's more to do in classic other than raid logging LMAO the only reason why you want to speed up SOD is because you want to raid log the new raid because you are already bored with shit temple. You would be saying the same shit if it was phase 4 raid logging for 3 months straight
They can’t release so many wow patches at once. We just get last patch of retail, Cata is in few days, Pandaria remix tommorow…
Go play other games lmao
@@bookbookbook1 ? yeah exactly, that's why we need it to go faster??? I don't understands lol?
@@spaceowl9246 you clearly don't understand, but I don't expect you to because you play that shit game lmao
They can always nerf content, but they can NEVER buff content.
At 38:00 you described my IRL friend raid group PERFECTLY. About 4 people stopped wanting to raid when random outnumbered us and we had to go join a new discord to raid. They need to release 10 man MC
This was a very good well thought out video. Agree on almost everything, except removing world buffs. World buffs raiding is the equivalent of playing Souls games where death is severely penalized. I get it you can lose them because of someone else's fault, but that is why you join/look for a GOOD guild where you can trust your friends. Just like in real life, you don't befriend sketchy people, just choose your party correctly.
Come MoP Classic the fan base will come to realize the ideal state of the game.
Yup. Mop had TONS of content. Good class balance. Everyone feels OP!
Was MOP really that good? I stopped at Cata
@@FluxFreemanMoP was the GOAT
are they going to remove challenge modes cause they will be to hard for the dads?
MoP wasn't that good
What happened to WoW? I think you can see it for yourself at 3:36
SOD? More like SAD
cant imagine ever showing up on a screen thinking that is even close to professional
She looks like the worm lady from Monsters Inc!
Quick correction, the nerf to M'uru's pushback was in original Sunwell in a patch after the raid's release, 2.4.2.
it's almost like progressing classic throughout old expansions and retreading old mistakes is dumb or something, that's wild
I work full time. when i get home i dont want to wipe on a boss for 3 hours straight. i wanna hang out with my buddies, get loot and see big numbers. its anecdotal but everyone i play with or see around shares that sentiment or atleast most of it. otherwise people wouldnt ask for parces.
They've got a mode just for you buddy, it's called "normal"
Theres another difficulty level for you and your friends to do exactly what you just said.
@caretheis6779 wow is the wrong game for you, friend. no offense. the point of wow is to explore the world slowly, to have in-game social engagements, to quest, to work for everything. 'hanging out' and 'getting loot' are the anthesis of wow, that's what made it go bad.
I suggest league of legends or fortnite or candy crush.
@@Arcexey The issue with what you just said is that WoW ticks none of those boxes. Everyone rushes to top level, want little social engagement, don't quest (because its not the meta for leveling).
@@Esteb86 they don't rush to the top level, that's in retail.
Players want social engagement, a huge complaint is that you don't even have to talk anymore in retail dungeons and what not.
I think you're only in the circles of the main streamers and stuff who can't live without questie or don't value the quests. the rest of people in classic play it for the feeling of vanilla.
deeply disappointing they aren't sticking with the original launch difficulty of the dungeons and raids, when I look back on playing originally that was what I look back on the fondest and made me feel a real sense of achievement. If you want push over dungeons and raids then go to SoD, or Era, or even retail to an extend. This is a crucial point they are missing and its putting a bad taste in my mouth
4:25 😂 look at the bottom discord frame ! That’s what I imagine went wrong at blizzard
Really like this. Brand new to the game and it's helpful to hear this kind of information.
Every point you made is spot on. On a side note, can you share the link for the holy paladin weakauras you used in the cho'gal clip? Thank you and have a good day!
What happened to Classic? The same thing that happens to all nostalgic trips. You realize eventually you can’t truly go back.
Based... Please just don't realize that they don't really like the pure Vanilla gamestyle, they're just all about nostalgia and sure they loved it back then because there was little to nothing to compare it to, also you were 20 years YOUNGER, which by itself is just a whole different point of view, and all of the people playing with you were also 20 years Younter... The game has changed for sure, but people has changed way more than the game.
No, more like nu-Blizzard is dog shit and can't deliver a quality experience.
Yeah, there's just no way to go back to the first time you experienced something.
That, and the internet isn't like it was back then, either. The novelty is loss.
@@rafairacki9302 They literally gave you a copy of classic. There's no fucking quality experience. Classic was dogshit. The only good thing about it was your memories. Build a bridge and get over it.
@@rafairacki9302 bruh they literally did a shot for shot re-release of Classic and people wanted changes towards the end of it realizing that keeping the same old game just wasnt for them anymore
I haven’t watched this yet but I am pretty disappointed with SoD. P1 and P2 were great but as soon as incursions came in the game was dead to me. I understand having different ways to level but when you get it so wrong it’s a joke. I love getting to max level quickly but that’s not what classic is about. Classic is about the journey and the fact that questing zones are virtually dead and you don’t see anyone for hours sometimes makes me sad.
So you opened the video and wrote this before watching it ?the. Your take is pointless and not worth reading 😂
@@zometthecometplease explain your logic?
I am talking from experience playing the game, watching a video doesn’t change that.
@@zometthecomet would you like me to watch the video then write my comment again? Because it’s not going to magically change my view on the game.
@Tom-hn5hn yeah I couldn't even make it 10 minutes through phase 1, it was very obvious to me that SoD is just a middle ground between vanilla and retail. that's a big no FUCKING THANK YOU from me.
" I LOVE people who vote when they don't live here " Is kinda the vibe you know? Like why vote if you don't have a horse in the race?
Nice video, thanks. I have quit WotLK and SoD in January with 4 lvl 25 chars. I feel good about quitting for you present many things that I wouldn't have liked.
You touched on a lot of topics and I believe the reason we can never get the ideal Classic+ is that these points are controversial, people will be 50/50, maybe 70/30 on each point individually and you'll hardly find two people who would choose the same option on every aspect.
My take:
world buffs: bad, agree with your reasons
10man raids: bad, should not exist as an easy outlet for every raid, 10man-only raids like Kara and Zul Aman were fine, 25 was the sweet spot for challenge and approachability
group-wide buffs: good, from a raid lead pov, gives you more options to squeeze out more of your roster (I know, this was more of a feat in 2008 than it is now with easy access to information everywhere)
class balance: in the end dps should have comparable output, no questions asked. but you have to achieve that without making every class function the same way. retail classes are about as different as Mario and Luigi for that reason
raid difficulty: At one point you use the iconic phrase "I don't get to play my class", which is the ultimate issue I have with the so called "difficult" raids. ICC already has plenty of encounters, where your class doesn't matter for you only run from A to B dodging stuff on your way. Sure, that is taxing and measuring your real life agility, but I don't care for that. I want my knowledge challenged like in Vanilla. This whole difficulty debate is like young players saying "running is harder than chess".
One thing to consider with TOGC numbers is that many people started to play more characters for this raidtier. It was just that short
Playing Era right now. It’s well populated and is the most fun imo.
On what server
Its not
If you play warrior, sure
WOTLK was and is the end of classic. Cata was the beginning of “retail” as we know it. People got filtered by the difficulty of Ulduar and ICC and will get filtered again by the difficulty of Cata, even post nerf. I hope people play cata classic and enjoy it (especially if they missed out on the original version), but the hype and numbers definitely won’t be the same as for TBC and Wrath classic releases
Truth
If it wasn't for the guild of people I met shortly after tbc released, I probably wouldn't have enjoyed tbc and wolk as I have. Tbc was a headache but we've had a blast in wolk.
you should do more of these longer form videos where you just talk about the game
The one upside is the majority of the most impactful runes for most specs are generally easy to get and if all you do is level up, grab the starter set of gear from incursion vendor, get the easy to get runes or the ones you enjoy doing and then just grabbing the main raid world buff along with a raid flask and your main stat flask you will perform more than fine if you play your spec somewhat correctly. While min maxing even a bit gets absurd in investment of time & gold FAST you can cut out almost all of it and still get roughly 80-90% performance out of a character spec depending of course and most aren't too complicated to play.
I do 100% agree that it is more fun when it is easier to build and maintain alts and try new and different things and fast to get a friend into the game and online and stuff like that and the power of items does need to shift a bit as well as raid drops, raiding should have the majority of your bis items, I'm fine with a few things coming from dungeons or world drop or whatever else and I think it's good for gear that's not far off of bis to come from easier sources outside of raid that can also be farmed so people don't feel stuck if they can't get that drop in raid but I shouldn't have half or most of my gear done before walking into the raid, that's part of the fun.
The drops also need to be adjusted, they need to figure out a way to condense gear a bit so the alliance isn't left with 20 shaman items per clear to DE and same with the horde with paladin loot, either enable cross faction sham and pally or have their gear have melee and caster stats on the same items or just delete caster mail and plate drops and have them share with other stuff, I handle loot for my guild and every single week we're DE'ing half or more of the loot since the first week! In addition to loot for the other faction there are also items that are just bad in general that nobody wants or can use at all, no clue why they even exist honestly.
Main problem at least for me is that blizzard turned the admin job to AI . Players know that and they started abusing you by fake reporting everyone they hate for some reason
as a result you might get multiple warnings or mute or a 7 days ban. Happened to me several times even tho i litteraly didn't say anything after multiple times requesting to talk to a gm i got mostly ignored. Took me 10 tickets to get an answer - and the answer was i can see that you didnt say anything however i cannout erase those warnings as its being done automatically and we have no control over it. Next time i got mass reported i recieved a 7 days ban - to which answer was no we are not going to check if you got banned you deserve it they also said pls don't bother to make any aditional tickets because they will get ignored. That is the state of wow classic being run in automatic mode and while before tickets took longer to answer least it was done by a person and not by a chat bot ! So we are still paying but we are having discussion with an answering machine if something goes wrong. That should not be allowed im supprised they are allowed to offer the product without any actual support for it !
They did the same thing when I boosted to 80 from 70 and reset my professions to 0. Needless to say, I won't be playing cat Because I believe they're already setting the tone for the game. (We don't care pay us you Addicts)
in all my time playing Wow classic i''ve never one been mass reported, so this more sounds like you making enemies by actually being a toxic jerk or bot, then you actually being innocent.
@@sirpieman300 I didnt get mass reported until last year got 1x 7 day ban and 15 warnings the moment i got wow SOD the moment i made a character. US servers got some GMs EU servers have none . People are abusing it. You can even get mass reported if you win rolls on something it's terrible ! No because of that lots of people use mods that actually block chat to avoid being reported as a general rule i don't speak in chat or advertise any trades. But don't take my word for it open google and do a search on that topic
Cata is going to pop off. Great balance of retail and classic, and most people are sick of either/or. Should do very well.
It could very well be the case, but if I were a betting man I would bet on it being the Classic flame out.
@@jakeic1 we’ll find out very soon! I honestly just think it comes down to if Blizzard supports it enough.
agreed about the full prof progression at level 50.. should have somehow capped it at 275 or so, also wish that they had prevented libram enchants until level 60. i love the sweaty consumes in classic vanilla but it feels weird essentially having them ALL available at 50
I stopped playing SoD after phase 1 because, at least for my class, all the new runes in phase 2 were at max level or near max level and then getting the ones I wanted would take forever and a lot of grouping and traveling. Leveling without anything new for phase 2 just wasn't exciting so I just didn't wanna do it.
wanna have challenging raid content in WoW ? there is mythic raiding in retail =)
I don't like retail
Good lord.. Why is that HamBeast dressed like she is going to a goth show? This is considered business casual now ? WTF has happening to professionalism?
absolutely disgusting
What a shameful comment to make on a persons appearance.
@@jerkyblowfish we used to have these things called standards, some of us still believe in them.
issue with SOD is if youre a pally tank or warrior tank youre the wrong tank since youre not crit immune
Totally agree with it not being Alt friendly, I have 1 lvl 50 and the thought of leveling my hunter or my warrior i just cant do it, so i just let them sit in a city and generate rest and then do Gnomer when i have time. I just log in now and then log out soon after, its a real bore right now.
Season 1 was so good because the rewards and levels came quickly AND majority of the content was in friendly zones if you were on pvp servers so didnt have to worry about being ganked, I did move to a PVE server though as I could see it becoming a real issue later on if i stayed on a PVP server and im glad i made that decision.
Thanks for making this video. I quit SoD at the beginning of phase 2 and i have been feeling some fomo about it, but the way you talk about it makes me feel better about not being a part of it all.