The Place of this War in Human History |
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- Опубликовано: 9 сен 2022
- The 17th Annual Meeting of Yalta European Strategy (YES) - “Ukraine: Defending all Our Freedom” - was held from September 9-10, 2022 in Kyiv. Over 400 leading politicians, diplomats, businessmen, civil activists, and experts from more than 20 countries took part in the conference organized by YES in partnership with the Victor Pinchuk Foundation.
Speeches:
• Timothy Snyder, Richard C. Levin Professor of History, Yale University, quotes: yes-ukraine.org/en/news/viyna...
• Niall Ferguson, Senior Fellow, Hoover Institution, Stanford University, quotes: yes-ukraine.org/en/news/ukray...
• Serhii Plokhii (online), Director, Ukrainian Research Institute, Harvard University, quotes: yes-ukraine.org/en/news/na-17...
• Anne Applebaum (moderator), Staff Writer, The Atlantic, quotes: yes-ukraine.org/en/news/na-17...
#YES2022 #YES22 #YESmeeting22
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"The moment you pick a larger force and you say that force is giving me freedom you are doing something which will take your own freedom away". - Prof. Timothy Snyder.
Good shot! EU is already proving this parable! Ukraine is going to copy the Eus primrose path!
Snyder is incredible.
I just finished watching his series of 23 lectures from a class that just wrapped at Yale, The Making of Modern Ukraine. People are paying thousands of dollars to hear him talk and this is on RUclips for free.. we're so unbelievably fortunate.
I graduated from Yale College, and have my graduate degrees from that university..and Prof. Snyder's "History of Ukraine" class ranks with very best of the great lecture classes I had a Yale, including John Blum's 20th c. American History.
I have listened to most of Prof. Snyder's lectures more than once, and often did so with maps open and simultaneous searches with Britannica online for reference. Prof. Snyder's work is transformative, and if nothing else his class makes everything we have to listen to now about Ukraine and Europe, all the arguments and discussions, infinitively more compelling. By instinct and generation I am reluctant to ever be a proponent of American military intervention, and the political arguments (and those who make them), made in support of it....But Prof, Snyder's class dramatically has reconfigured all my initial suppositions and prejudices...and humbled me. He is a gift to Yale, our country, and the world.
I fell the same. I'm Polish and from form professor's Snyder lectures about Ukraine I learn also about polish history. But what I like above all is his human point of view
I watched almost to the end of his class. I have to get back to about two more sessions! Great lectures.
W
The Snyder guy is a woke professor from Yale; I went through his 23 23-part lectures on the making of Modern Ukraine. It is full of falsehoods, as Ukraine never existed until 1922. It was a small region with in the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth and part of the Mongol Empires and then by Russia.
Most of the time in the lecture, he speaks about the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth and not about Ukraine, which never existed until 1922, no matter how he spins it.
The Viking Kyivian Rus were destroyed by the Mongols in 1142 and disappeared.
The Ukrainians had no links with the Ottomans or the Crimean Khanate and never even had a Black Sea Coast until the Bolsheviks were out of Ukraine together.
There is no reference to the word Ukraine in any Treaty from the advent of Time until 1918.
So obviously, you are not a student of History and are a RUclips Historian,
It's time to read Robert Mogocis's work in Central Europe and Ukraine. He is from the University of Toronto!
So you should revise your comment!
Professor Snyder is incredibly eloquent and informative, and there is also a very simple phrase which is used often by Americans who are not so learned, but which seems to reflect some of the same ideas: Freedom isn't free.
Timothy Snyder is an absolute genius! To the point where you feel smarter just by listening to him 🤓
Listening to Rap Music you'll be smarter still!
Always fascinating to hear Timothy Snyder speak. It's a shame he wasn't given more time. Also would have liked to hear questions from the audience.
Time wasted on Ferguson.
You can listen to history classes at Yale
he is one of the great intellectuals who make sense of this war
@@tonybooth4 Oh yeah the Yale lectures on UKR are excellent!
Grateful to be in attendance at this very full 45 minutes with the brillant Prof. Snyder. Anne Applebaum, thank you!
Timothy Snyder has really some amazing and concrete insights. Cherish this man!
Fully agreed 👍
Дякую, дуже цікава дискусія 🙏🏼💙💛
Snyder and Applebaum have been great for bringing perspective during this war. 19:08 GET IT MAN!!!
Timothy got so much in his thoughts! I just love listening to him.
Great point about Zelenski addressing directly to the people of other nations as opposed to their leaders.
The German government did what it did only due to the public pressure (and notable minority forces from the ruling coalition). They proved to be politicians, not leaders.
"The German government did what it did only due to the public pressure (and notable minority forces from the ruling coalition). They proved to be politicians, not leaders."
And rightly so. GER is not the babysitter of UA. UA is neither an EU nor a NATO member. Furthermore GER didn´t sign the Budapest memorandum. Therefore GER got no obligation whatsoever towards UA.
@@kodor1146 You are missing the point. The Germans want to help Ukraine fight Putin so they don't have to do it themselves. Well, those with brains want it.
Scholz's government does otherwise. Or tries to.
Is that democracy?
Schroeder is on Gazprom board. Paid by Putin. And they couldn't even kick him out of the party.
Is that democracy?
@@kodor1146 Yes it has. It colonized Ukraine during WWII. Hitler wanted Ukraine for "Lebensraum". So Germany is still responsible today.
@@junglecat_rant " It colonized Ukraine during WWII.
What happened during the Nazi time got nothing to do with colonialism. Colonialism is sth. totally different. The Germans don´t have a colonial view on UA or the Eastern Bloc in general.
"So Germany is still responsible today."
Here I beg to differ either. The Germans got no responsibility towards UA whatsoever. And... good so. The idea of being responsible for someone or something beyond mutually agreed contracts is an inherently paternalistic idea of one's own position. You are responsible for people to whom you have a closer relationship and who cannot take responsibility for themselves, or with regard to obligations for which you have some kind of authorization to act. You can be sure that no Ukrainian wants to be paternalistically patronized by the Germans.
@@kodor1146 Bunk. Germany needs to stop hiding behind its past so that it can pretend it can ignore reality and just continue to do business as usual with anybody who will pay like a prostitute. This is a matter of ethics and morality and narrow legal definitions are the weasle words of cowards.
Great talk! It blows my mind to see those people sitting in Kyiv, capital of a country waging war on its territory.
The US wages war on Ukrainian territory.
we are not waging any war. ruzzia is.
@Alexis Z. elaborate
A great discussion. We are living at a time when awareness of history is especially important. None of what is going on would be understandable without that awareness. How lucky we are that at such a time we have such a diverse group who really know their stuff, and speak about it publicly.
When it comes to "eastern Europe", not too long ago, we were lucky to have an American historian that had some reading knowledge of Russian. Today we have American historians who are fluent in multiple languages in this sphere beyond Russian (I can vouch for the fact that both Timothy and Anne understand and speak Polish with a fluency that just in itself is inspiring). At the same time we have historians in these countries who can speak and write in English and who are in active communication with each other, and thus comprehend a history that goes beyond merely reflecting the received views of one particular national history. Thanks to the research, writing, teaching, and public speaking of these historians it is now possible for the average English speaker to develop a level of understanding of this history that previously was only found in the case of dedicated experts and a few exceptional refugees.
It's POSSIBLE for people to learn to understand history, but people don't. For instance, probably 90% of the American population right now thinks that there was no fighting in Ukraine before February of this year, and that everything was just dandy until Russia invaded completely unprovoked out of nowhere. When history actively contradicts government propaganda, government propaganda almost always wins.
He lies sooo much in his lections on russian and ukranian history. He is not a scientist, but a propaganist.
@@Ballosopheraptor We are living in a situation where propaganda often wins in the short-term. In the long-run history wins. But we don't have the luxury of waiting to be told we were wrong. So, yes, we have a problem. There are many reasons for this. Snyder discusses some in "On Tyranny".
BTW, I'm hoping that at least 20% in the US know about the invasion of Crimea and the "little green men" there and in the separatist regions. But I'm not in the US. Unfortunately, in other countries they may know more, but there are also more sophisticated myths supported by propaganda and idiocy.
The basic problem is that:
Most people are good, and are willing to do the right thing, and would like to help.
The small set of people who really know what's going on have tended to be among the privileged, and unless there is a strong civil society to support them, they will tend to fall in line with the corrupt elites, or remain silent.
It's an old problem and there are many reasons for hope. One obstacle is that more and more people are now realizing how bad things are and give up hope, without realizing that things were even worse in the past.
@@maff272 If you can find a factual error in his work, it would be good of you to share you insight (i.e. to cite the evidence to the contrary).
Timothy Snyder has an awesome Ukrainian language. I didn’t even thought he can speak Ukrainian. Great!
Yeah, that was unexpected. I knew that he used to learn polish and I heard some phrases in Ukrainian from him in the past
He speaks many languages...
@@gveregregor9965 He actually learnt Polish to fluency. He's really great.
It is reported he can speak five languages and read in ten.
The current Roman Catholic Vatican Pope also speaks fluent Ukrainian. It was quite a surprise to the Orthodox Ukrainians at their meeting with the Pope in Kyiv.
It blew me away when I saw that the Conference was held IN Kyiv, Ukraine!
In a Nation at WAR, defending itself from Russian Agression!
At the 9:37 Mark, I noticed what are two Soldiers, probably Ukrainian, with earphones in their ears, probably listening to this in Ukrainian.
I wonder what they are thinking!
Slava Ukrainia!
Russian liberation, not aggression. Because of that all the scum from all over the world can send idiotic messages to brainwashed Ukrs.
What a shame...
As is evident now. November 2022, the Russians could have ended this conference any time they wanted, non lethally just by hitting the local power grid lol.
Loved the question about how this war is different from the others and LOVED the answers!
Wow, what a treat! I admire all three speakers and have books by all three. Much food for thought here. Thank you so much for sharing it!
Same here 👍
If this panel had also included Stephen Kotkin, it would pretty much have been the dream team.
Tim Snyder is awesome!!! Really one of my favs since he wrote Bloodlands.
He is a great lier also. At least in his yale lections on russian and ukranian history. A propagandist under cover
@@maff272 You obviously, just met Dr Snyder.
I’ve been a huge fan of Dr. Snyder since 2010 when he wrote Bloodlands. Truly a classic piece of work. I was shocked in my shear ignorance on the subject matter, I formally thought I knew before.
I’m sure your doctorate from Oxford maybe on a different subject my friend? but Dr Snyder is the real deal. What a great guy too.
Bloodlands is great read. I’m sure you own a copy.
This Yale course has been a joy. It’s well worth the audit.
If you’re a Russian troll from the farm? Pack your bags friend. You’ll be on your way to the front soon enough.
@@steve-real sorry are you schizofrenic? He is lying in his course, ignoring historical archival sources etc etc . Just a lier
@@maff272 You’re post graduate work in Russo-Ukrainian history was a fail. But there is hope for you. Just buckle down and keep working on your studies. I believe in you!
This is brilliant. I am so grateful to have discovered it. These are essential perspectives, quite neglected in most conversations
Excellent. Thank you.
Thanks to Timothy I want to learn history.
Listen to the Yale lecture series by him. Making of modern Ukraine. If you have not already
Very interesting discussion. Thanks to everyone.
A great discussion. Timothy Snyder is an incredible historian who speaks out the truth. Plokhy also is a wise person, I just finished reading his book about the war on Ukraine in German translation, which was very insightful and gives good information on the background of the war and its historical roots. Also the major events of said war are clearly pointed out. This discussion was very good, also the humorous parts of a scenario of the future where Russia or Moscow and it’s ruins becomes a museum. It is a great hope for the future.
an excellent discussion and panel. The broader historical perspective is extremely important, especially from a stance outside Western Europe. Thank you.
Very illuminating insights!
Have read several books by snyder and Ferguson. Great reads and very insightful.
Thanks for uploading this excellent talk with the top shot historians of our time. Slava Ukrayini 🇺🇦❤️🇺🇦.
I'll have to read some Serhii as I have read the others, Applebaum and Snyder are such excellent authors. Loving the Snyder, Yale course on Ukraine history that you can watch on here.
Superb analysis of this “Hot War” and what to expect.
Thank you for the video. That was a superb analysis and discussion of the Ukraine Russian war by 3 eminent historians. Valuable and worth watching.
Glorious in revolt and ruin; squalid and shameful in triumph
This is gold
Brilliant discussion and panel. They made the view of this bloody war much wider. I would have liked mention of President Biden and his government and the strong support they give and more is needed.
This war is also about Russias inferiority complex.
It is about effectively misusing state controlled mass media for manipulating the feelings of war trauma of every Russian family that had lost relatives, while protecting the country from fascism.
Timothy Snyder (5:24), "We've noticed over the last 15 years that it is not just freedom and democracy that we are losing, we are also losing the words and the concepts of freedom and democracy."
Exactly. But this has been going on for some time, especially in Western universities. This is post-modernism.
No, it's not realpolitik. This one is much worse. Besides we don't live in the time of realpolitik.That was the time of Nixon and Kissinger, the 1960s and early 1970s. That's long gone. We live in the time of globalization, of "social justice," of "The Grand Narrative." Of post-modernism.
Once just a plaything of professors, it has now become a major force in reshaping the world. It has had tremendous influence on many organizations in the former Soviet Union, in Russia, and especially on the FSB, on characters like Dugin, and on Putin himself. At the same time it has influenced many Western leaders, such as Klaus Schwab.
Everywhere, it's influence has been thoroughly negative. It encourages getting rid of whatever is left of ethics, truth and honor, reason, logic and common sense (the concepts it completely dismisses), and instead concentrating on personal and group ambitions, power games, trickery, deception and self-deception, etc.
This war in Ukraine is the first post-modernist war. Whatever does not fit the ideology is immediately twisted beyond all recognition. And whenever the ideology itself gets stuck, it is exchanged for an other one. All in a completely shameless manner. Freedom can mean anything one wants, so can democracy. Anything can mean anything. The connection between a word and its meaning is broken. Communication becomes impossible. Where communication becomes impossible, fists and weapons start speaking.
Politics have changed as well from the days when JFK was a fiscal conservative and Nixon a big liberal.
it would be great if these three historian will make another discussion about this subject
Correx: Anne Applebaum is also a well known historian. She wrote e.g. "The red famine" (about 4 million ukrainian peasants starved/killed by Stalin in 1932/33, the so called "Holodomor").
@@wernertognetti5956 An excellent treatment of Stalin's "holodomor" is the 2016 movie "Mr. Jones." It's on the tube.
What a great discussion. Thank you!
Thank you for providing this conversation to those interested. It was both fascinating and enlightening to hear the perspectives of all those on the panel. Loved the comment "This is the message I want to convey- Ukraine can win this war." I have no doubt.
An ENORMOUS number of words to convey quite simple concepts. The history of the EU is the story of the suffering of individual human beings in emasculated and militarily-occupied countries. 🇪🇺🇨🇵 Better together 😉.
As things are evolving since February 2022, there is and there will be an "independent Ukraine" (Snyder), - no doubt about that.
The question yet to be answered is within which borders and with which perspectives for the future the state of Ukraine will exist.
Hopefully borders which are coincident with the actual Ukrainian nation, ie mostly West of Dnieper and away from Black Sea coast
I have to admit. We lost our empire in this exact situation. It would be poetic justice if Russia lost. We created a monster with the loss in poltava.
Snyder speaks Ukrainian, as well as others, and has a deep knowledge of Eastern European history. Ferguson is Dr. rent-a-quote who hates playing second or third fiddle. 😄
Haha. You're on to something... And yet Neill is showing up in Kiev and is not as an expert of east european history as Prof Snyder. Two great historians and voices of Ukraines victory!
So true…tremendous ego
Ferguson is alright, I know other historians snipe at him for being attention hungry and there might be some truth to that. Synder also writes good books…. well Bloodlands is the only one I have read….
Nonsense
Snyder is rent a woke. His English is appalling and his words make as much sense turned upside down. The EU is a trendy empire. Snyder does not understand Europe or real history. He’s some kind of social scientist who lives in a world of social scientists.
Admittedly Niall spoke poorly today. It’s a bland discussion. Listen to Niall on Good Fellows.
Timothy Snyder’s The Red Prince is a great read. I held onto my copy for years and came back to it this year while rereading every book I had about Ukraine.
It is extremely sad to see so much hatred for Russia and deep rooted Russophobia.
I pray for Ukrainian people to join hands with their Slavic brothers in Russia and defeat their historical enemies by ending this mad conflict .
Prayers for peace.
People who think and write about history talking about the future sitting in a place making history.
15:03 The reign of queen Elisabeth was with dignity "managing the unravelling of (the British) empire".
The most respectful way to characterize what the queen has done.
& not entirely honest.
We are as peoples in our homeland to be a minority in the mid century, having already been minoritised in our Capital city & others, as I cannot avoid knowing given that frequently days pass walking innmy neighbourhood before I see another Briton.
Ferguson should have used a more familiar British Empire as an example instead of Roman Empire. Where tourists also go to see the stolen treasures from all over the world.
But he did, didn't he? He talked about the decline of the British Empire.
@@junglecat_rant The queen "managing with as much dignity as possible the unraveling of an empire." "Rome makes you think the history of empire, like no other place. . . Tourists would wander around Moscow the way they wander around Rome today, looking at the ruin of the Kremlin." Tourists are wandering in London and seeing all the ancient artifacts that the British plundered and refused to return and kept all those evidentiary items with British "dignity." I say that's a better example.
This war will be remembered as an avoidable war which ended the same way it should have ended in failed negotiations in April 2022.
Niall owned this one.
Wonderful discussion - thank you to all! AS to 'the end of history', I always laughed with incredulity when that canard was thrown around. It ignores the central fact: history is people! And we may be many things, but predictable is not one of them.
Funny how Fergusson was a huge fan of french and british empires (which destroyed more than half of the world and completely eliminated a number of nations) in his controversial books but turned into antiimperialist in the case of Russia
Destroyed half the world-how hyperbolic nonsense. India is far better after colonization as are most former colonies
I'm still trying to get my head around the notion of America being an empire. Yes, America has far reaching influence and acts around the world based on its own interests, but there is a distinct line between that and empirical ambitions...
@@tj2636 Dudebwe still have imperial possessions from Samoa to Puerto Rico.
It is kind of ironic to see the Oligarchy organizers of the event who are guilty of leaving Ukraine unprotected after the Budapest Memorandum, were criticized to their face and called out being described as "an oppressive state". 😂
Can someone help me understand what does Plokhi says at @39:19 "The (uninteligible) century war in terms of the tactics. The militarty tactics of the agresor."
20th century
Respect to Tim Snyder, yet simply unfortunate that commentary is not open below the videos of his Yale classes. Lithuania did not use Chancery Slavonic to author their first Lithuanian Statutes. Instead they utilized Chancery Ruthenian, albeit even linguists become confused as it originated from the Western Slavic sphere of influence yet dubbed as Chancery Slavonic. And during the literal era of Kyivan-Rus, there was not yet such a term for it at the time of its’ existence. Similarly to how during the Byzantine Empire, there was never such a thing at the time. There was Byzantium but no Byzantine. A term invented centuries later by historians to describe the general time period being discussed. Lithuania, the Grand Duchy of, also never fully extended to the actual Black Sea shoreline. The furthest southern outpost, nor the army ever crossed to the other side of southern Ukrainian River, let alone touched the Sea. Close but no cigar.
Respect.
👍
Great discussion but too short! Could have continued for at least half an hour longer.
At 23:23, is that Kuchma in the audience?
That is him.
@@mepo5673 Yes. He is a father in law of Victor Pinchuk, Ukrainian billionaire and oligarch who is the organizer of this forum. They sit next to each other.
it's the same dirty old war. and the same culprits. blind is the one who does not see it.
Excellent. But it's interesting that the East European on the panel only gets to speak in 3rd place, and is even interrupted by a USer the 2nd time he speaks.
To Timothy... I would say that it is freedom, that allows the finest and most effective and beneficial form of capitalism.
Freedom is what allows everyone who has the idea and the motivation to build something, can do so.
So I would question which truly is the larger factor.
It is to preserve freedom that Capitalism must be regulates and not allowed to endanger the basic freedoms so excellently listed by Beveridge: Freedom from Want, Disease, Ignorance, Squalor and Idleness
In modern terms we would write freedom from Poverty, Ill-Health, Lack of Education, Poor Living Conditions and Unemplyoyment.
@Gordon Davies .. If you don't have Capitaliam, you don't have freedom.
@Gordon Davies ... and your list of modern "freedoms" are all enjoyed by those in prisons.
Human liberty means being free to choose, not freedom from consequences.
“It’s not that many geopolitical conferences that allow 45 minutes for historians”
More should.
We see them hurrying, while the might of Germany glowered up against them to grasp their share of the pillage and ruin of Czechoslovakia
As Niall Ferguson was chronicling the demise of the Soviet and Russian empires,he glossed over the emerging threat of the imperial ambitions of the new Chinese empire: Tibet, Hong Kong then Taiwan will only be the start.
Went to Moscow with a group of Fergie Germans in November 1982. It was bleaker than bleak.
No kidding
Bravo, well done. American public speakers (sic) could take a few hints from the fusion of passion and intellect on display here. I will make sure this video is widely circulated to the extent I can do so.
Years ago I remember watching a tourist going round Moscow and he was filming and just commenting and he wasn’t being derogatory at all, nothing negative and yet he was followed and then questioned. He was fine and managed to explain himself etc but what is the mentality of that. Why are they so suspicious and paranoid. This isn’t even recently but years ago. You wouldn’t be followed and questioned round Western countries or European countries in that manner purely because you are a visitor or a holiday maker. It was so bizarre.
Maybe some "vatnics". Check term rashism. 20 years of propaganda and Moscovia became a fascist state.
14:43 important point
I’m not sure the Brexiteers think the British Empire is over though their Queen knew it, the rest need to hurry and catch up.
"Unashamed articulation of Values", Long held values of the human spirit. China just as Russia needs to be given more credence to opposing this value.
I don't know, first time I hear this fella and I expected a more objective perspective. The responsability of the US and even Selensky in this war is huge, and we are talking about powers with nuclear wapons. Selensky saying "we neeed more money, more wapons and bla,bla..." Its risking lifes all over the world.
I like my larger force type of freedom.
You think we'd get our own democracy to work for the voters before we worry about democracy working elsewhere.
07:38ish: 'freedom is part of happiness ... ethics are part of history ... freedom of speech is saying something you are willing to put yourself on the line for... that's what Perecles was talking about in his funeral oration... working within them [the forces] and trying to change them
How do you say Ick ein Berliner for Ukraine
Cores & periferias & fracture zones same as its always been
Timothy Snyder straddles the abstract. Niall Ferguson is clear and on the money. Serhii Plokhii is professorial.
Thanks
Someone with intelligence
I love idea, that Kremlin wii be new ruin Colloseum
Sadly, in terms of logistics, another example of how remote speakers sabotage themselves by using inadequate equipment. My sympathy and compliments must go to my interpreter colleague/s at the event, one of whom we briefly heard during Timothy Snyder's little intro in Ukrainian.
Apart from that, hugely informative and enlightening, as these speakers usually are. Thank you.
Time to choose, democracy or slavery.
Every aspect of military modernity discussed - except nukes. That rally does change everything. Without that threat looming, a no-fly zone from the beginning would have made a big difference. My sense is that Putin is not bluffing; that as a last resort, he'd use.
Snyder's history is like reading a wonderful novel--you're never sure what is true, but it is written like poetry, as historical research should always be.
Niall is wickedly brilliant.
This war requires a conclusion. One side or the other must win, and the current form of Russian government cannot be allowed to continue.
I would argue that the United States in itself is not an empire, but it is a democracy full of many imperialists who may or may not be in power at any given time. Our fate is in the voters' hands.
Well done Niall for mourning the Queen. I’m sure quite a few Russians do too, and younger Russians think the murder of the Russian Royal Family was a sin and robbed their country and their people.
I think a lot of Britons still think of their country as a world power that won the second world war.... Not the subject of this discussion, but a reason for the Brexit.
Slava Ukraine.
I simply adore both Anne Applebaum and prof Timothy Snyder. True intellectuals and humanists
No mention of NATO.
Excellent
I doubt Snyder has heard of it
This was a product of the discussions location and theme. This is not how great historians need to operate. They need to operate and be based in a completely unbiased setting and present a variety of perspectives. There is no mention of the key figures, agreements, and discussions as the Warsaw Pact was intentionally disbanded. What is especially distressing is that these men must know the truth about Zelensky and who is behind him. There is no discussion about the US led regime change and the vast corruption and suspect democracy that honestly is Ukraine today. For brilliant historical minds to be placed in this propaganda setting it is unsettling. Western democracy is unraveling due to neoliberal global elitists interfering in every facet of the potentially progressive liberal nation-states political processes. These men MUST know this. Instead, Ferguson rails on about "empire". He referred to Russia today as an empire? NATO has projected itself as an empire of sorts. This notion that Putin's next target is London is complete balderdash and these men know it. This war was brought on by the proxy state that has blocked negotiations over the treatment of ethnic Russians in the Donbass and the stated goals of NATO to get Ukraine to join in the encirclement of Russia that president after president lied to the Russians would not happen. They all conveniently never mentioned it. Honestly, it's shameful. They are not alone in the modern historical spin doctors. Fact: Document 119 of the Gorbechev Foundation repeatedly states that in a meeting on February 9th, 1990 James Baker reassured him NATO would not expand. My question is, why did it not disband? If it had, many bombing campaigns and deaths would have never happened and this war most likely would have been avoided. As these men are now on the verge of their predictions two years ago being wrong, this is an important lookback.
What a merry go round panel save for Ferguson, but then how right can he be about the Chinese if he doesn't have anything to say about what cards they must be holding in their hands right now, card which he can't see I am sure.
Are you really going to get an objective discussion, in Kiev during the war, with a title like that?
Ferguson's speech drips with bloodthirst, absolutely deranged. And his comments about empire are wildly inconsistent with his own unrepentant shilling for British imperialism. His understanding of the history of the Roman and Russian empires is also hilariously shallow, and frankly Gibbonian. How this man is allowed to speak beside Snyder is beyond me. He seems to be less of a historian than Dan Carlin, more of an ideologue, and a silly one at that.
Total ….
Snyder just talks about nothing. It’s nonsense. I’ve never heard of him so carry no prejudice
@@paulgrieve7031 you seem to opine from a position of ignorance.
Audience questions? Major fumble/Lost opportunity. Anne Applebaum added nothing. Furguson didn't do any homework and just coasted, uselessly. This was a Timothy Snyder show, whose insights are accessible and poignant, as usual. Everyone else was just in the way.
Did Pinchuk have to ruin this by making Applebaum the moderator?
No David Irving?
just watch Tim Snyder
An excellent discussion and panel.
An unfortunate observation regarding the condescending and truculent Anne Applebaum interaction with Niall Ferguson regarding Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s process; 38:36 ‘I wrote down the same quote’. Anne whether you also performed an action is hardly the point. The point Niall raises is the procedure that Zelenskyy strives to implement.
More weapons for Ukraine and more sanctions against Russia and less talk. Snyder, Ferguson and Applebaum provide excellent intellectual entertainment, however what they say does not really matter now in the middle of war.
It matters because what they have to say is important and is convincing people to hold steadfast in support of Ukraine. Unfortunately not everyone is convinced, and people waver in their support. It is necessary to continue making the case.
Pericles's Speech is NOT a good example. The Athenians were NOT fighting for Democracy in the war he was promoting or their way of life. They entered a war of choice to preserve their empire. Yes, the Athenians did it democratically, that is true and exceptional. But the war the Athenians chose to enter democratically was an imperial war. It was NOT intended to spread democracy in any shape or form. Nor could it be in the Ancient context. It is closer to the US in Vietnam, Afghanistan or Iraq though of course the analogy is very imperfect
This war is a part of humanity's ongoing Clueless Era (as defined by the Philosoohy of Broader Survival). This era will have it's own museum wing in museums of the coming Enlightened Era (as defined by the philosophy - read it).