Literally the exact video I've been looking for! Hoping your channel keeps growing! You're a true cinematographer and I appreciate your insight more than most
Man, Vespid has so far by now 11 focal lengths from 12mm to 135mm, for anyone who worked on sets, that's the one and only choice at this price range. I even tried the new Vespid 12mm on the exhibition, it's also nice on color and flare rendering. I have to say that they are great as a series. If you are a filmmaker, you just can't ignore this point... Plus, i found some really serious flare problems when adding filter(even "clear")on Athena. From this point, I just wouldn't go Athena, because you never can avoid using filters to strong light sometimes...
You're speaking of front mounted filters in the mattebox? Can You please elaborate a little bit more regarding this issue? I'm thinking of buying the Athenas (rear protruding element isn't a problem for me cause I will use them with 4x5,6 NiSi IRNDs), but if they flare badly or front mounted filtration is a problem, I might just go DZO
I favor sharper over softer lenses too. I think the Athenas edge out the Vespids. I like the versatility with the rear filter insert for E-mount as well.
Thanks for doing this, is great to see them side by side in this way. I have 5 Vespids, and 3 Athenas for more corporate use. When I'm filming old wrinkly me, I prefer the Vespids cos they're kinder on my hide ha ha. I'm usually using 6k downsampled. But I do notice the action of the iris is a little lighter on the Vespids, so for more action oriented stuff I'm starting to prefer using the Athenas just because of the heavier iris weighting, and being a bit more sure that settings will stay as they are. However image-wise, I think if I asked a client to tell the difference between the two side by side, they'd be at a loss to really see any difference. When I test the 14mm and 35mm Athena vs 16mm and 35mm Vespids, I think differences in sharpness may be partially down to CA making the edges of higher contrast areas less definite. Side by side with the 14mm vs 16mm at 120 fps, I'd say my Vespid is sharper close up - on the Z cam E2F6. Go figure. One thing I do love the Vespids for is their consistently close minimum focus across the set. Even the 40mm is min 30cm, 10cm closer than the Athena 40mm. I use that extra focussing range a lot. It's great Nisi have added more focal lengths now, before that the Vespids had them beat for the range available. I can also use the Vespids on the Mofage PL adapter with ND, which I can't with PL Athenas cos of the rear element protruding so much. All in all though I'm grateful to be able to use both...
Awesome comparison. Nisi is a no brainer if you have a full frame camera such as the Raptor or integrated IDs such as the FX6. If you're running a Komodo or other s35 camera, the fact that you can use a variable ND behind the lens or a speed booster with the DZO is a huge plus. The speed booster means that every lens has two focal lengths to use. It's a crying shame Nisi didn't make the lens such that you could use it with such adapters. My guess is, they did that on purpose to get customers to buy their integrated ND solution. But the reality is if you buy such cine lenses, you should go PL all the way. You will likely change systems in the next years but these lenses will stay good for 10s of years.
No. It seems the PL mount works with the Breakthrough PL to RF adapter with the VND but does not with all the other VND adapters. It doesn't work with any speed booster so far. @@cubul32
@@JasonLeto sure you can! But these lenses are full frame lenses, which means that the look on a Super35 sensor is different, same with flaring. You don’t get the whole character of the lenses when using on a Super35 sensor without a speed booster.
Wow the lenses are really close together, I find that the nisi lenses are a more natural looking and the vespid are a more yellow kinda looking in the skintones. I couldnt really find a really big diffence in bokeh and the softness. But The fact that Nisi are more natural looking in thjje skins and DZO are more yelliow in the skins thats where the nisi will win for me. I was hoping someone came with a good comparison on RUclips. Now I know that for me the Nisi lenses are the right choice
That's interesting, I agree with you in this demo, but I've seen similar comparisons where the skin tones were flipped, and DZO had the naturally warmer tone while the Nisi's were much more in the green/yellow zone... Log type and camera choice plays a huge role here too. But he's dead on that with DZO's have a naturally softer look, it's one of the limitations that I have to consider when using them on commercials, that and the DZO's all have pleasing but present chromatic aberration that the Nisi's are reported to have fixed - making for a much more versitle lens when working on creative and commercial content.
The three biggest dealbreaker for me regarding the NISI lenses : 1- The rear protruding element that make them unusable with Speedbooster or a Poco Mofage adapter (which I use with my Blackmagic Full Frame) 2- The fact that you can't change the mount on the NISI. Many cinematographer/filmmaker have more than one camera and system, and the fact that you can use them on different system is huge deal for. For exemple, I can use my Vespid primes on both my Blackmagic (with the Poco Mofage in PL) and my GH7 (with my Speedbooster in EF). 3- NISI doesn't have a macro lens. Having the 90mm macro in the type of work I'm doing is essential. The softest doesn't bother me at all, I kinda like this look when I'm wide open at T2.1. They definitely got sharper at T4 and up. And finally, I think the Vespid render skintone better than the NISI, but this is just my personal taste. Nice review, it just make me more happy with my purchase :)
After testing the 2 sets, I went with the Athenas. While I liked the "look" of the DZOs (except wide open), I would rather stick with a "cleaner" look during acquisition and then soften it in post. You can always give a clean image personality but you can't always make an image with personality look clean.
I get your point, but if you want the look you have to use the lenses. No filter and especially no post production will give you the character of a specific lens
To my liking the Athena's are a touch better than the DZO kit. but its just a hair of a difference. I would go for both no problem. This lay's down to which ever is faster to use, easier and convenient that technically meets your production requirement, so it is a matter of choice. Personally, I would love to own the Athena's for their clinically good glass and can easily adapt cinematic looks by being a resourceful DP and the focus breathing to my understanding is better than the Vespids. It is also easier to rent out the DZOs if it calls for it.
The Athenas look sharp like photo glass. Of course cine lenses offer better physical handling (focus throw, gears, breathing etc). But if we’re just talking about look, photo glass looks pretty similar to me.
It's really tough and the choice seems to be more about what does one personally need for the type of work and cameras they have. As for the softness issue you mentioned with DZO and cameras when shooting in slo motion, this can be easily sharpened in post with Davinci (just like you softening the sharper image by Nisi lenses). The DZO's have more lenses and zoom options. The Nisi's have rear filtration opportunities. Which serves your needs best? I'd say that there really isn't that much difference in lenses these days. They all can yield fantastic results in the hands of a talented dp. (The Red footage you showed looked great, not soft at all btw. )
I think I like the Nisi more too. I don’t know if it’s just me or that the way this two lenses really compress an image differently, assuming that cam position didn’t change, I noticed that the Vespids tends to make the person’s face “look wider” whereas the Nisi makes the person more slim or that the face feels more 3D. It could also down to the differences of micro contrast which Nisi boasts about in their promo. The only thing about the Nisi that might be a little bit annoying in this particular example is the bokeh being slightly busy looking, but at this price point, consider the almost non existent colour fringing, focus breathing, and the great micro contrast, I think this is one of those lenses that has the best cost to performance ratio ever for video productions.
The Nishi Athena lenses are more color neutral with a faster T stop. On the other hand, one has more lens choices with DZO Vespids... it seems to have a more red cast to the image... nothing wrong with that cast and the Vespids do seem to be softer. However, I'd take the Nishi Athena's sharpness over the Vespids.
The Nisi Athena's are the answer we've all been waiting for. The BLOW the DZO's out the water ! The kit is Definitely my next big purchase !!!! The PL is a bummer ito of my BMPCC 6K Pro but it will work on my other systems
@@andremarshall414 they only come in 3 mounts E , RF and PL . So do u have these lenses 👀 And even if they did come in L , the bmpcc 6k pro is an EF mount buddy.
@@Tusa_Mamba I would personally go for PL mount, I had E mount and EF mount cine lenses for a few years now and when it came to renting out, everyone was asking for PL. Business wise I would go for PL, it's more adaptable.
If you want a clean and sharp image why not just go with a photo lens? I don't see any huge or remarkable difference between the Nisis and the Dzos, both are fine to my eyes.
Literally the exact video I've been looking for! Hoping your channel keeps growing! You're a true cinematographer and I appreciate your insight more than most
I'm happy to hear this, thank you!
The sharpness and color cast are key. Nisi did a fantastic job
Man, Vespid has so far by now 11 focal lengths from 12mm to 135mm, for anyone who worked on sets, that's the one and only choice at this price range. I even tried the new Vespid 12mm on the exhibition, it's also nice on color and flare rendering. I have to say that they are great as a series. If you are a filmmaker, you just can't ignore this point... Plus, i found some really serious flare problems when adding filter(even "clear")on Athena. From this point, I just wouldn't go Athena, because you never can avoid using filters to strong light sometimes...
You're speaking of front mounted filters in the mattebox? Can You please elaborate a little bit more regarding this issue? I'm thinking of buying the Athenas (rear protruding element isn't a problem for me cause I will use them with 4x5,6 NiSi IRNDs), but if they flare badly or front mounted filtration is a problem, I might just go DZO
Did you do the same filter test on vespids?
I favor sharper over softer lenses too. I think the Athenas edge out the Vespids. I like the versatility with the rear filter insert for E-mount as well.
I like the DZO for the interchangeable EF/PL mount… that’s huge, and you can pair with the new Module 8 tuners to get a stylized look
how it is interchanheable where you can be either ef or pl?
@RafalGendarz you get ef mounts, unscrew PL, shim as needed and add EF
What is Module 8?
The only downside of the Nisi is the rear protruding element which limits the use of speedboosters and many filter adapters.
Thanks for doing this, is great to see them side by side in this way. I have 5 Vespids, and 3 Athenas for more corporate use. When I'm filming old wrinkly me, I prefer the Vespids cos they're kinder on my hide ha ha. I'm usually using 6k downsampled. But I do notice the action of the iris is a little lighter on the Vespids, so for more action oriented stuff I'm starting to prefer using the Athenas just because of the heavier iris weighting, and being a bit more sure that settings will stay as they are. However image-wise, I think if I asked a client to tell the difference between the two side by side, they'd be at a loss to really see any difference. When I test the 14mm and 35mm Athena vs 16mm and 35mm Vespids, I think differences in sharpness may be partially down to CA making the edges of higher contrast areas less definite. Side by side with the 14mm vs 16mm at 120 fps, I'd say my Vespid is sharper close up - on the Z cam E2F6. Go figure.
One thing I do love the Vespids for is their consistently close minimum focus across the set. Even the 40mm is min 30cm, 10cm closer than the Athena 40mm. I use that extra focussing range a lot.
It's great Nisi have added more focal lengths now, before that the Vespids had them beat for the range available. I can also use the Vespids on the Mofage PL adapter with ND, which I can't with PL Athenas cos of the rear element protruding so much. All in all though I'm grateful to be able to use both...
Awesome comparison. Nisi is a no brainer if you have a full frame camera such as the Raptor or integrated IDs such as the FX6. If you're running a Komodo or other s35 camera, the fact that you can use a variable ND behind the lens or a speed booster with the DZO is a huge plus. The speed booster means that every lens has two focal lengths to use. It's a crying shame Nisi didn't make the lens such that you could use it with such adapters. My guess is, they did that on purpose to get customers to buy their integrated ND solution. But the reality is if you buy such cine lenses, you should go PL all the way. You will likely change systems in the next years but these lenses will stay good for 10s of years.
wait so the Athenas can't be adapted to EF? I want to use them EF with metabones t cine 0.71
No. It seems the PL mount works with the Breakthrough PL to RF adapter with the VND but does not with all the other VND adapters. It doesn't work with any speed booster so far. @@cubul32
@@cubul32 nope the cant
its a shame not being able to use the full frame coverage on a super35 sensor...
@@RicoStein_ why can't they be used on ef? Can't you just get the PL Mount and adapt it without a speedbooster?
@@JasonLeto sure you can! But these lenses are full frame lenses, which means that the look on a Super35 sensor is different, same with flaring. You don’t get the whole character of the lenses when using on a Super35 sensor without a speed booster.
Thank you for your wonderful and useful understanding of everything, I liked your evaluation of the content
Wow the lenses are really close together, I find that the nisi lenses are a more natural looking and the vespid are a more yellow kinda looking in the skintones. I couldnt really find a really big diffence in bokeh and the softness. But The fact that Nisi are more natural looking in thjje skins and DZO are more yelliow in the skins thats where the nisi will win for me. I was hoping someone came with a good comparison on RUclips. Now I know that for me the Nisi lenses are the right choice
I tested them both out. Athena bokeh is circle, vespid is cat eye shape. Another thing to consider
@@quinnfriedbutt3654 yes, I think Nisi really nailed it with this lens set!
That's interesting, I agree with you in this demo, but I've seen similar comparisons where the skin tones were flipped, and DZO had the naturally warmer tone while the Nisi's were much more in the green/yellow zone... Log type and camera choice plays a huge role here too. But he's dead on that with DZO's have a naturally softer look, it's one of the limitations that I have to consider when using them on commercials, that and the DZO's all have pleasing but present chromatic aberration that the Nisi's are reported to have fixed - making for a much more versitle lens when working on creative and commercial content.
@@MrMoviePhoneEx I agree too on camera and log profile that will make a difference to what the image will look after converting to rec709
The three biggest dealbreaker for me regarding the NISI lenses :
1- The rear protruding element that make them unusable with Speedbooster or a Poco Mofage adapter (which I use with my Blackmagic Full Frame)
2- The fact that you can't change the mount on the NISI. Many cinematographer/filmmaker have more than one camera and system, and the fact that you can use them on different system is huge deal for. For exemple, I can use my Vespid primes on both my Blackmagic (with the Poco Mofage in PL) and my GH7 (with my Speedbooster in EF).
3- NISI doesn't have a macro lens. Having the 90mm macro in the type of work I'm doing is essential.
The softest doesn't bother me at all, I kinda like this look when I'm wide open at T2.1. They definitely got sharper at T4 and up.
And finally, I think the Vespid render skintone better than the NISI, but this is just my personal taste.
Nice review, it just make me more happy with my purchase :)
After testing the 2 sets, I went with the Athenas. While I liked the "look" of the DZOs (except wide open), I would rather stick with a "cleaner" look during acquisition and then soften it in post. You can always give a clean image personality but you can't always make an image with personality look clean.
I get your point, but if you want the look you have to use the lenses. No filter and especially no post production will give you the character of a specific lens
@@mabitzz9484 100%
Interesting review. Thanks!
Hope you can do a video about the Sirui Sniper apsc AF because I want to see how it performs on the fx30. TNX
To my liking the Athena's are a touch better than the DZO kit. but its just a hair of a difference. I would go for both no problem. This lay's down to which ever is faster to use, easier and convenient that technically meets your production requirement, so it is a matter of choice. Personally, I would love to own the Athena's for their clinically good glass and can easily adapt cinematic looks by being a resourceful DP and the focus breathing to my understanding is better than the Vespids. It is also easier to rent out the DZOs if it calls for it.
You saying the dzos rent out better?
@@cubul32 here in the Philippines, yes. Though the Athena's are now available here and I recently got my 18mm, 40mm and 85mm
Great info, thanks!
I'll stick with my gm lens for sharpness, for cine glass, I'll go Dzo.
The Athenas look sharp like photo glass. Of course cine lenses offer better physical handling (focus throw, gears, breathing etc). But if we’re just talking about look, photo glass looks pretty similar to me.
I prefer the nisi, the color look better and the roll of is also better for my taste. Nice video Alex!
It's really tough and the choice seems to be more about what does one personally need for the type of work and cameras they have. As for the softness issue you mentioned with DZO and cameras when shooting in slo motion, this can be easily sharpened in post with Davinci (just like you softening the sharper image by Nisi lenses). The DZO's have more lenses and zoom options. The Nisi's have rear filtration opportunities. Which serves your needs best? I'd say that there really isn't that much difference in lenses these days. They all can yield fantastic results in the hands of a talented dp. (The Red footage you showed looked great, not soft at all btw. )
I think I like the Nisi more too. I don’t know if it’s just me or that the way this two lenses really compress an image differently, assuming that cam position didn’t change, I noticed that the Vespids tends to make the person’s face “look wider” whereas the Nisi makes the person more slim or that the face feels more 3D. It could also down to the differences of micro contrast which Nisi boasts about in their promo. The only thing about the Nisi that might be a little bit annoying in this particular example is the bokeh being slightly busy looking, but at this price point, consider the almost non existent colour fringing, focus breathing, and the great micro contrast, I think this is one of those lenses that has the best cost to performance ratio ever for video productions.
The Nishi Athena lenses are more color neutral with a faster T stop. On the other hand, one has more lens choices with DZO Vespids... it seems to have a more red cast to the image... nothing wrong with that cast and the Vespids do seem to be softer. However, I'd take the Nishi Athena's sharpness over the Vespids.
The only problem is that the Nisi Athena can cause issues with adapters and speed boosters because there physical construction.
Good job, thank you! Would love to see if they have chromatic aberration and how they respond when you push in 400 percent.
The Nisi Athena's are the answer we've all been waiting for. The BLOW the DZO's out the water ! The kit is Definitely my next big purchase !!!! The PL is a bummer ito of my BMPCC 6K Pro but it will work on my other systems
if you get the l mount 6k you can use the l mount version of the lenses
@@andremarshall414 they only come in 3 mounts E , RF and PL . So do u have these lenses 👀
And even if they did come in L , the bmpcc 6k pro is an EF mount buddy.
@@Tusa_Mamba I would personally go for PL mount, I had E mount and EF mount cine lenses for a few years now and when it came to renting out, everyone was asking for PL. Business wise I would go for PL, it's more adaptable.
@@AlexDonthanks Alex will do !!! U actually one of the people who convinced me to buy a Red Komodo . Keep the dope content coming 💪🏾
@@Tusa_Mamba he said L mount 6k... So he means the new blackmagic cinema camera 6k FF.. PL to L mount will work fine
I prefer the the NiSi look.
If you want a clean and sharp image why not just go with a photo lens? I don't see any huge or remarkable difference between the Nisis and the Dzos, both are fine to my eyes.
Have you actually listened to the lyrics of your background track?
Nisi looks like photography glass...