U can say sorcery or magic or something ... whichever u like to say .. but no one can deny his love .. jesus love is unstoppable.. do whatever u want to do ..
This video are the thoughts of a man in power, who’s job it is to view things from a impartial angle; as such he will not allow himself to investigate what was really happening but to shut it down and report what his views were ( from his rational on the surface point of view ). If he actually listened to the Christians and allowed the Holy Spirit into his life; he would have been a changed and saved man.
@@lewislee3392 the guy hated Jesus, which in turn, makes the biblical scriptures word true.. 😂😂.. the same people who deny him end up making the scriptures true themselves.. because of their own doing.. 😂😂
I dont mean to insult but if his love is unstoppable how can he ir you justify eternal punishment in hell? No insult intended sorry if it seems to be insulting but I'm genuinely confused with religons view of hell
@@Confirmed_Normal_Human And further more: So Jesus says he is the only way and only believing and following him brings you salvation? Then why is he only appearing to a very small amount of people, 295k years after we humans evolved in evolution. He acted in a small area while all the Earth was already full of humans. Billions and billions of people never even had the chance to know him. And after he died, this religion spread mainly over brutal military power in North Europe, in America , in parts of Asia and in Australia. Till today 2/3 of humans do not follow that religion, not because they are bad, but because they are socialized in other religions and convictions. A very bad strategy of a guy that offers the ONLY way and also a very unsuccessful way.
Its very interesting how first non-believers first say Jesus never existed, then when confronted with any kind of evidence, backtrack and say well, maybe he did exist but the spiritual part with all the miracles is false. Is there anyone, normal man, legend, or God-king in existence who has affected human history as He has? Forget the loaves and fishes; Name another person who has literally split human history.
@Futureplanet There was an official contemporary written account of Christ. It was a written Roman record called "The Acts of Pontius Pilate" written AD 26-36. While the actual records are presently lost to us, Ancient Historians cited them as reference material, so we know those records existed. And it appears the records existed up to around the 4th Century, disappearing along with other priceless Roman History records, when the Roman Empire collapsed around 400 AD.
People don’t realize that 99.99+% of anything written down 2,000 years ago is long, long gone and rotted. The documents we have saved, whether histories or philosophy or plays or religious writings, were intentionally preserved because many people in many places (enough different places to survive the hundreds of sackings and burnings of cities through the passing centuries) deemed them worthy of preserving through copying for posterity. Surviving manuscripts from the early centuries AD were incredibly fortunate to have survived, always in arid or semi-arid environments, often buried somewhere lucky enough to survive wars and natural disasters, perhaps in a cave or on the grounds an obscure monastery. How lovely would it be to have preserved, for example, the Hebrew/Aramaic sayings Gospel of Matthew that Jerome read and considered translating at the great library of Caesarea, likely burned by the Caliphate’s conquests in the late 7th century. The fact that we have as much early Christian writings of the Apostolic era as we do is a testament to Christianity’s achievements and cultural power.
@Futureplanet All the photos and videos I've seen of Space show stars. Using an advanced telescope such as Hubble to look deep into Space reveals solar systems, black holes, stars living, dying and dead. Creation Day 4 is when the Sun, Moon and stars first appeared in Earth's sky. Up until that time the earth was forming, likely enveloped in mists gasses, etc, similar to Venus presently. When Earth's life-sustaining atmosphere finally developed, the skies cleared to reveal Sun, Moon, Stars.
CONT: Now, I have always thought it odd, that Genesis states that plant life began on earth on Creation Day 3, ahead of the Sun and Moon arriving in Creation Day 4. I was thinking in terms of plant life as we know it requiring the Sun to live and thrive. However, recent Scientific discoveries in the deepest sections of the Pacific, of simple plants that can live and thrive without sunlight, shows that primitive rudimentary plants may well have existed on primeval Earth before the Sun!
I mean, supposing you believe in God, why would you need scientific explanations for things? The abrahamic God is all-powerful so is not limited by the laws of physics.
If you need evidence then your wavering in faith, either you believe in the lord or you don’t. God can do anything, w’e he decides to do, doesn’t need an explanation humans being inquisitive is what leads them to there demise. Why not pray to the source for the direct answer? Keep waiting on Science to tell you what God is? Then your going to be waiting forever and you’ll fall for anything.
A mixture of reasons: 1.) High illiteracy rates (estimated from between 85 - 99% depending on location) 2.) Much of what was written in antiquity has been lost to us now due to the tides of time. 3.) Many pagan or Jewish authors would find certain doctrines of Christianity offensive or absurd, giving them reason to show their disdain by their silence. 4.) I would be interested in knowing some specific authors by name who we have their works who should have mentioned Jesus, but did not.
agreed. Like I said, read books, not church websites. The one I mentioned before seems to be very good so far, with a whole chapter dedicated to talking about HOW they determine dates and authors etc.
In hating homosexuality, you must say that they are choosing to live the way they are living. Otherwise, you have to admit that God messed up or God hates what people do for reasons out of their hands. The point is that it likely is out of their hands. The fact that God would eternally punish someone for a finite breaking of his rules is completely unjust. Someone could stomp a baby, rape a woman, and kill 1000 people and still not deserve eternal punishment. They'd deserve a lot but not hell
I'm pretty confident not many people argue whether Jesus was a historic figure. He was. But what is disputed was whether this man Jesus, was the same man who Christians refer to as Christ in the bible. And yes I know that man's name was Jesus too.
@Futureplanet You may not be able to see it or comprehend, but the brief descriptions in Genesis on the formation of the universe and of how Primordial Earth appeared until its sky and atmosphere developed, make a lot of sense. Particularly if you read modern scientific thought and theory on the phases of Primordial Earth as it developed. 800 million years ago, the planet was so warm that it was enveloped in dense clouds and nothing would have been visible in the sky, but stars existed!
I didnt even look at the video,just the comments,and what i find fascinating is that atheists always seem to look for videos that are for creationism,almost like they are uncertain just like the rest of the world P.S.This is not meant to anger anyone,just saying there's no reason to argue about something you....uhh....dont believe in :)
This MAY proves that the story of jesus was indeed spread around that time. It doesn't even prove jesus actually existed, nor that he was really the sun of god. The romans already foresee that this was gonne be trouble :) They where right.
Jazzy J Dumbest thing I ever heard. You just heard with your ears that the most credible historian said Jesus was executed by pilate didn’t exist? So pilate, pliny, & tacitus were all insane?
CONT: When Primordial Earth's surface cooled to the point the solid cloud cover could break, then the sky would be visible and the sun could begin to have an effect on Earth's surface temperatures. The skies would then begin to resemble what we see today. Sunlight constantly on the Earth's surface would be a catalyst to evolve the primitive plant life into more and more complex plants over millions more years until the first primitive animal life appeared in the oceans.
CONT: Creation Day 5 ended about 350 million years ago with the arrival of major ocean life and flying insects on land. The Earth at this point would be recognizable to modern man with abundant plant and insect life on land. Creation Day 6 ended about 200,000 years ago with the arrival of modern man. Genesis 1: 1-31 may not be as detailed as you want, but its description of Earth life development follows modern Scientific theory accurately to an amazing degree!
CONT: To put Genesis into the timeline of Earth Development, would look something like this: Creation Day 1 ended about 4.5 Billion years ago with the formation of the Earth from material revolving around the sun. Creation Day 2 ended about 4.1 Billion years ago with ocean formation. Creation Day 3 ended about 3 billion years ago with simple plants. Creation Day 4 ended about 600 million years ago with ozone layer formation. The sky was now normal with visible sun,moon and stars.
CONT: The process of Earth geologic development to primitive-to-complex plant development described in the two previous comments occurred up to about 600 million years ago. Somewhere around 580-600 million years ago, primitive animal life first appeared in the oceans. This is roughly geologic-and-life-development on Earth, per modern Science, depending upon which of several theories you choose to follow. The Genesis account is amazingly close to modern Scientific thought on the matter.
@TheDarvus Truthfully I was testing you a bit asking about Pilate's historicity. There was no existing historic account of Pilate for almost 2000 years, so many scholars attempting to discredit the New Testament called him a fiction invented by Gospel authors. In 1961, a Roman tablet discovery dating to the 1st Century AD verified the accuracy of the Gospel accounts of Pontius Pilate. Just wanted to see if you were inventing things. Glad to see you are intellectually honest.
He catches the wise in their own craftiness, And the counsel of the cunning comes quickly upon them. JOB 5:13 Now how can Skeptics deny Christ”s existence that even those people who doesn’t agree or believe in him just gave a statement about him.
@TheDarvus The problem with this scenario is that the Romans destroyed the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem in AD70. The earliest written accounts of Christ were in completed form about 30 years prior to Temple destruction. None of the Gospels, or Letters in the New Testament mention the Temple's destruction, a clear indication the documents were in completed form before that event.
(continued) When critics argue the only first hand accounts of Jesus' life are found in the Bible, it makes me wonder where else they think should be. Jesus' ministry only lasted three years and was limited to Judea (considered the ghetto of the Roman Empire). There would have been no reason given the short time frame and limited area of Jesus' ministry to have been exhaustively recorded in Roman literature without the accusation of forgery.
Jesus has been spotted many times by Christians. Sometimes he is walking among us and other times he is up in heaven seated on his heavenly throne among the clouds.
By this standard of evidence the book "Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Slayer" is also true because there are plenty of references of Abraham Lincoln outside of the book.
@andipat100 - Flavius Josephus: He was a Jewish historian who was born in 37 CE. Already accepted by scholars to be partially or wholly interpolation. Those writings were unheard of until the time of Eusabius in the fourth century and were never used by apologetics before that time.
@Inovocre12 True. But by that time, "Christo" had come to refer to Jesus Christ. Nevertheless, the document talks about Christians, so context would tell you that the document is referring to the object of their worship.
@andipat100 Tacitus writing almost a hundred years later, is too far removed in time to be doing anything except passing along hearsay, from stories that for two generations were passed along orally, growing with time.
@johnappa The Christ Files by John Dickson. You can also get it in book form. If you mean geographically, it's filmed around Palestine and in Italy, while being produced in Australia.
CONT: King James Version Gen 1: 6-8 6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. This clearly describes a cloud enveloped planet, with no visible sun, moon or stars.
@Futureplanet Oral traditions and written accounts of Christ were contemporary with his ministry in early 1st Century. The earliest document of the New Testament, the letter of James, was complete around AD40 about 7-10 years after the AD30-33 crucifixion. The four Gospels were completed AD40-70, with Mark the first and John the last. Independent accounts were written AD30-150 by Jewish/Greek/Roman sources such as Acts of Pilate,Tacitus, Josephus, Suetonius, Thallus, Lucian, Celsus, etc.
@@olacogumelo3789 Ah, you mean that man-made book with exclusively man-made content, man-made wisdom and man-made errors. You mean that bible with a god YH WH, invented 5000-3500 years ago by the Hebrews. Yes I read it. What is harmful about it is, that its claimed by humans to be from a god, by that reality shall adjust to this errors in the bible and not vice versa. Also there is zero evidence for any supernatiral character or happening in the bible. So nice man-made book from 3500 years ago , based on the human knowledge of that time.
@@olacogumelo3789 I answered you, if my answer doesnt get displayed then switch in "Sort by" from "Top comments" to "Newst first" . There she is displayed :)
@@DoreenHamdler YOu kniow on your own that there are testimonies outside the bible of a human precher called Jesus. There is just zero evidence from any supernatural character and event in the bible and the quran.
@Futureplanet I am perfectly willing to accept and use the present models for atomic, electronic, and evolutionary theory. I understand those models represent theories that allow us to apply observation and measurement to practical use of these disciplines. However, I understand fully that these working models are not absolute concrete facts based in reality any more than my 1/32 scale plastic model of a Spitfire is an exact, faithful, true copy of the real WW2 fighter plane.
With some of Jesus' desciples being struggling fisherman..up to their necks in debt and payment, walking on water is clearly a metaphor for being above earthly debt with spirituality. The entire new testament tries to explain to us that we should check our spiritual "bank account" more often than not. He says you will be persecuted for believing in me. Does anybody doubt that evil conquers the world? A true believer in Jesus could not survive the world system of today.
@Mazabuka74 There were more than 40 writers who lived and wrote during the time, or within a century after the time, that Christ is said to have lived and performed his wonderful works. Enough of the writings of these authors remains to form a library. Yet in this mass of Jewish and Pagan literature, aside from two forged passages in the works of a Jewish author, and two disputed passages in the works of roman writers, there is to be found no mention of Jesus Christ.
@Murdulo Disbelief in God is the equivalent to saying an apple doesn't exist despite the fact that there is evidence of an object with all the attributes of an apple. It's called denial.
@Futureplanet You are a prime example of why my agnosticism melted away. For years I listed to others of your type, put down the Bible as a "book of fairy tales" as you put it. Then I read the Bible, out of curiosity. That's when I discovered that the "enlightened types" putting the Bible down were doing so with half-truths, distortions and outright lies. How "enlightened" and intellectually honest is one who puts down a book he has never read? Have you read the Bible, Futureplanet?
Exactually, once I staryed reading the Bible at first it was boring but then I was filled and it became so interesting and real, I personally could finually hear from God and he spoke to me threw the word of God. It's called the living word for a reason, great revalation comes from it plus blessings.:) God is good and very real 🙏
@glnelson1956 : Lack of evidence is not the same thing as evidence against. The holy grail was never found either, that must mean its real right? No one has been able to find thor's hammer, or the sasquach, I guess since there's no evidence to prove they don't exist, we must conclude that they do?
@TheDarvus I encourage your analyzing of the Bible for accuracy. Carefully weigh all evidence from both sides of the debate. I feel being an Agnostic is a healthy and intellectually honest stand, and it was my mindset for many, many years. Keep your mind open to BOTH sides of the debate. It is like being a juror: consider the accused innocent until the prosecution PROVES otherwise. Likewise take the view that the Bible is inaccurate, and allow the evidence to prove/disprove.
@glnelson1956 : There is no accurate independent account. There are so may independent accounts that they have to be sifted through to cherry pick the ones that agree with what you want to personally believe. That is BAD research. Christianity is renowned for doing that, so there is really nothing you can say that deserves to be taken seriously. Nothing at all.
@snoberts I see you didn't follow the reference I gave. What Celsus presents is information he gathered from informants int he Jewish Community. It demonstrates that they had read the Gospel of John. Therefore it is not any sense an independent witness.
He did exist and not because of neat or cool advice. He took on the sins of all by dying and resurrection to save our souls from damnation. Cling to Him who loves you and you will be saved from eternal separation from God. Jesus is the ONLY way to God.
@Murdulo Well, for a second I thought that you had caught the depthful meaning of the first statement I made, but obviously it turned lopsided and you thought I was merely refering to human emotion alone. If something has no "self" then it does not exist, therefore it is selfless. What I was saying is that you're half right by thinking God does not exist, because he is selfless.
"The truth of the matter is that very few Christians believe the Bible. If they did, then they wouldn't be on RUclips arguing with people. They would be outside trying to save people from eternal damnation." One in the same.
Unbelievable man lol. 14 years later and people still continue to argue on RUclips. Which means that even in the early days of the internet people were arguing. Now it's gotten 100% worse
I'm not attacking anyone. I'm attacking Christianity. The sad part is that we can't ever disprove that Jesus existed. Things like this video are cool to hear about. At least it explains how the name of Jesus would start the world's greatest epidemic.
@piip4 Yeah and they were taught through the bible text that the earth is not only spherical Isaiah40:22 but that he(God) hangs the earth on nothing. Job 26:7. However occams theory can be applied to many things it does not tell us where life came from only surmize/theorize on what already exists which is fine, but tells us nothing.
actually they werent. The gospels were anonymous, written at least 40 years after jesus' supposed death. The rest of the new testament was written even later.
There is no evidence showing that Jesus had supernatural abilities, or that he rose from the dead. There are only stories about it written by non-witnesses decades later.
@Futureplanet I had many years in Electronics, including two years toward an Engineering Degree, so I'm a bit familiar with Atomic theory. The 'Holy Grail" quest in Physics for many years now is the Unified Field Theory, a quest that I feel blinds the discipline to other possibilities. Likewise, Evolution's "Holy Grail" quest for a single root to the theoretical tree of evolution I feel handicaps and blinds the field to other likely possibilities! None so blind as those who refuse to see!
@Futureplanet Wrong. This is correct Genesis Order: Day 1: Heavens, Earth and light Day 2: division of waters in firmament from waters below firmament. (Firmament would eventually become the Earth sky) Day 3: dry land appears, separating the waters into oceans and seas; first plants appear; Day 4: Earth sky with sun,moon and stars to form signs, seasons, days and years; Day 5: Life in the oceans and creatures that can fly. Day 6; animal life on land; and at the very end, man.
It’s always hard to trust historical data, when a persons delivery is loaded with subtext and contempt. I clicked for some unbiased, objective info. This was just a drive by character assignation!!! 😂
@Futureplanet I think you should just accept the fact that I see things far differently than you. My reading of Genesis is a valid interpretation of the very brief description of the origin of the Universe and Earth. You may disagree, and see things differently, and that I have no problem with. You view is yours and does not affect me. I respect your right to see things your way, but don't expect me to agree with you. A mature way to handle this is to "agree to disagree".
@glnelson1956 Because when scientists talk about the formation of black holes, or super nova, they say that the day they are formed is when they suddenly become visible. That's why all galaxies only formed 50 years ago. Because before then, we couldn't see them. So, if a scientist says, galaxies formed billions of years ago, that ACTUALLY mean, because our telescopes advanced 50 years ago, now they are visible, hence they are made 50 years ago. Ignore the words, and insert your own meaning.
@TheDarvus Do you have any information on Pontius Pilate? Many scholars disputing the New Testament say that Pilate did not exist and is also one of the fictions created by the New Testament authors.
Cont: Genesis states that earth life began in the ocean on the 5th Creation Day, and that life on land did not start until the 6th Creation Day, with man arriving near the very end of the 6th Creation Day. If you will check modern Scientific thought as to the pattern of life development on Earth, you will find that it follows the pattern outlined in Genesis. Genesis explained it several thousand years before "Science" even existed.
@Futureplanet, Cont: Science cannot explain how a person, dead with no brain function or heart function, can describe in incredible detail, Medical conversations with the team working on him, accurately describe family conversations occurring 3 floors below them, accurately identify items on the hospital roof 10 floors up, & visit a "new world" meeting long-dead relatives they never knew existed. Science weakly says "hallucinations". How can a no-activity brain & heart "hallucinate"?
Cont: The reason I have come to so distrust Science is that so many researchers have a financial stake in their pet theories, and it may often be in their best interest to "cook' or "reinterpret" many test results in order to keep the money flowing. That is why is is so useful to follow the money trail of a "theory". Scientists are as corrupt and crooked as the rest of humanity, and not to be generally trusted.
That tells me that they didn't give a shit. The savior of mankind comes to earth and dies for us, performing miracles along the way, all to float back to heaven and NO ONE writes anything for at least 12 years? Give me a break. I could see waiting 12 years to write something if it wasn't extremely important to mankind, but these people supposedly believed people were going to hell for not believing in Jesus. That seems urgent enough to start writing rather than waiting 12 or more years.
@Futureplanet Again, you are either too dense, or too biased to see it and that is not my problem. I have said clearly time and time again that the "Heavens" or "Space as we commonly call it today has solar systems, stars, etc. Genesis clearly said it came first. By day 4 in Genesis, Earth's atmosphere had formed to the point that stars, sun and moon are visible. Science pretty well agrees with that sequence of events. This is the 3rd time I've described my understanding of Genesis to you
@Futureplanet That evolution within a species occurs is clearly evident, and few will question that. It is when the known concept of species evolution is applied to "one common source' for all life on earth that we run into problems. While I would agree that is one concept to consider, there are also too many other possibilities to focus on just one. When a Scientist makes the "one evolutionary source" theory his "God and Religion" he is blinded and biased to other possibilities.
I don't have a problem with the idea that this person we call "Jesus" did live. That a charismatic drifter and gifted orator really did influence and affect the lives and minds of so many people that heard of him. I'm quite willing to believe that's true. I simply don't believe that his existence means that any supernatural qualities attributed to him in texts about him *must* be true just because he was alive. He was a man, not a wizard.
@glnelson1956 Heavens means space. Stars are mentioned later. Why would have mention that he made the stars on the 4th day, if he already made them on the 1st day. WRONG WRONG WRONG.
Funny most of those government were pagan they believed in statues, but Jesus that did miracles to the needy, he was called a sorcerer. Mathew 10 ,25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household!
@Murdulo I've pointed out the obvious evidence for God twice already, that doesn't make me deluded, it makes you ignorant. Truth is omnipresent (selfless), all powerful, omniscient and self sustaining.
It's ironic sure, but hard to dismiss the logic in occams razor. As for the big bang theory, it seems plausible but I'm not going to pretend I know what really happened. I just know that I'd rather trust it than a book written at a time when people thought the earth was flat.
actually I don't care if he existed or not and if he did I doubt that he could defy the laws of physics and chemistry as he is purported to have done...anyway we are all divine beings ourselves .
It is worth noting that just because Jesus was worshipped doesn't mean that he was worshipped as _ho theos_ (the God): God in the fullest sense of that term. We know that Christians often worshipped Jesus in the first few centuries as divine but _not_ divine in the sense of the absolute. Subordinationism was orthodoxy until 325 AD and many Arians thrived right up until 381 AD and even afterwards.
Beg to disagree. If you look at the letters of Tacitus written to the emperor as well as the letters from Pliny the younger, you clearly see from their accounts how these “Christians” worshiped Jesus as God, how resolute they were even in the face of persecution (burning, crucifixion, fear alive to wild animals). They discuss forms of punishment, how to test that people aren’t “Christians”. I use the terms “Christians” in inverted commas as this was not the term the actual Christians used till much later as it was a derogatory term. The term Christians is only mentioned 3 times in the New Testament and every time it was in reference to what they (real Christians) are called, and that they should be proud to stand up for Christ. They (Roman governors and emperors) also mention how their temples are getting empty due to this religion and how persecution is the only means to control these people. Within less than 30 years after Christ death the gospel had spread across all of Europe and the Roman Empire and how the Roman Empire saw this as a big concern. This is from Roman text, not from biblical text. Why would people give up their lives and be tortured in the most brutal of ways by denouncing Roman gods knowing that they will be killed doing so if they weren’t convinced Jesus was God? Why would the “Christians” follow as these writes said “convicted and crucified criminal” if these people did not understand that Jesus was the Son of God, and being God? How would this faith spread so quickly? So sorry Michael, its ok if you don’t believe what is written in the bible, but how can you deny none biblical text written by highly accepted historic Roman writers, governors and even emperors? Go look at these letters, it’s amazing historical text.
@@aeasthouse316 I think you have misunderstood what I wrote. The Greek language distinguishes between _ho theos_ (God with the definite article) and _theos_ (god without the definite article). When Pliny the Younger wrote his famous letter ( _Letters_ 10.96-97) about the Christians worshipping Jesus he does _not_ say "as God" but "as a god" (or in other words, not as _ho theos_ but as _theos_ ). One can say the same about Tacitus. Moreover, there is no text in the Bible which says that Jesus is _ho theos_ ; that term is reserved exclusively for God the Father. The Bible describes Jesus as the _son of God_ but never says God the son. David, the Israelites, etc., are all described in the Bible as "son of God" or "sons of God", so that title alone cannot prove that Jesus is God the son. Finally, most Christian theologians were subordinationist up until 325 AD.
@@bayreuth79 Pliny did not know God, so he will say that the Christians served “a god” as they thought even emperors were gods and they (Romans) believed in a multitude of gods. I can recommend a book for you to read: Jesus as God by Murray J Harris; He is a Greek scholar reflecting a precise knowledge of Greek grammar and syntax, that I don’t have. So I can’t debate this in much detail. But in Harris’s book, he goes into great detail on the use of “ho theos” and “theos”. As I understand it, the NT generally reserves the term theos for God the Father (and apparently never uses it to speak of more than one member of the Trinity at a time, just as Yhwh and elohim in the OT do not refer to the Trinity), on seven occasions it uses the term, both with and without the definite article (‘the’) of Jesus (Jn. 1:1; 1:18; 20:28; Rom. 9:5; Tit. 2:13; Heb. 1:8; 2 Pet. 1:1); when the term is used with the definite article, as it always is, except in John 1:1, 18 and Romans 9:5, it has a titular sense. When it is used without the article, the generic sense is stressed; ontological Christology is both the basis and zenith of NT Christology. While the Christology of the NT is predominantly functional, except in the aforementioned seven verses, the functional Christology necessarily presupposes and is based upon ontological Christology; ontological Christology is not a late NT development, as it is found immediately after the resurrection in the confession of Thomas recorded in John 20:28 and is also found in the mid-50s in the doxological statement in Romans 9:5; ontological Christology is not limited to one author or regional development of early Christianity since it is found in the Pauline, Petrine and Johannine corpora as well as in Hebrews; the terms theos and ho theos were frequently interchangeable in the NT.
@@bayreuth79 Matt 1:23, and they will call Him Immanuel, which means, “God [= ho theos] with us” clearly refers to Jesus as the angel said. Note further that this is the first occurrence of the word "theos" in all the four Gospels. Therefore, it cannot be anaphoric. John 20:28, Thomas said to him, 'My Lord and my God'. Again, this is ho theos and addressed directly to Jesus. Titus 2:13, “…our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ.” ho theos = Jesus Christ. Heb 1:8, “About the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever’”. ho theos = Jesus Christ Heb 1:9, "therefore O God, Your God, has anointed You above Your companions with the oil of joy.” 2 Peter 1:1, “…righteousness of our God and Saviour, Jesus Christ.” 1 John 5:20, “And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true-in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.” Please note: “He (Jesus) is the true God......”. How can Jesus be “the true God” if He is not God?
@@aeasthouse316 Pliny the Younger was a highly educated Roman aristocrat who was aware of the One God. St Paul in Romans 1:20 says “For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.” Yes, it is true that the Greco-Roman pagans worshipped gods but it’s is also true that they were aware of “ho theos”, as is evidenced by some of the writings of thr Greek and Roman philosophers. So, my point is that Pliny the Younger’s letter is only evidence that the early Christians regarded Jesus as a god. Professor Larry Hurtado, who is one of the world’s leading experts on early Christianity, says that the early Christians “worshipped Jesus alongside the one God of Israel”. To worship “alongside” is not necessarily to worship “as” the One God. And it remains a fact that the NT never refers to Jesus as “ho theos”. John 1.1 refers to the Logos but despite the English translations the Greek is not “was God” but “was a god” or “was divine”. Your interpretation of the NT is just that: an interpretation. One can say the same about what I have said. But there are factually no texts that directly refer to Jesus as “ho theos”.
Disciples & others never said they have witnessed an empty tomb & a risen Jesus. The early writers fabricated the resurrection hoax by making up fake testimonials that the disciples & others have witnessed an empty tomb & a risen Jesus.
You think Paul just invented spending two weeks talking with Peter, one of Jesus’ close friends and followers, and James, Jesus’ brother, and their resurrection accounts he mentions? John’s gospel explicitly & repeatedly claims to be eyewitness testimony. Now, I totally get the argument among secular scholars that that was a Johannine community of John’s followers publishing based on his teaching, but to claim they invented it whole cloth isn’t an evidenced claim.
@CALICOTV301 "How about disbelief in God is equivalent to saying that there is no Santa Claus." Nope, that's a pretty fail comparison. God, by definition, can be and is seen in reality. And comparing Jesus to Santa Claus is like comparing the billion year universe theory to Santa Claus. If the universe is truly billions of years old, prove it now, without any of the correct equipment. Then and only then will we Christians show you miracles without the right equipment (doubtless faith).
@laflugantabastardo the nazarene texts, the ebionite texts, the books the catholic church threw out cause it wouldnt fit their war/killing animal is godly agenda, etc...
@Futureplanet Primordial Earth's surface was so warm that it was enveloped in constant cloud cover. The sky as we know it today did not exist, and from the Earth's surface, no stars, sun or moon could possibly be seen. Until Earth's surface cooled sufficiently over many millions of years, the sun had little- to-no effect on Earth's surface temperatures. There would have been no animal life of any type at this time, only gradually evolving simple plant life.
@laflugantabastardo according to the earliest souces he never ate the lamb, that was inserted in by the catholci church editors who persecuted the priests who refused to eat meat. as a nazarene which jesus was he would never eat a innocent animal.
Jesus concentrated His ministry in various provinces of Judea- not secular hubs of the ancient world like Rome or Alexandria. Christianity spread into the surrounding areas after the life of Jesus. I would be far more suspicious of a Roman historian writing an excerpt about Jesus in 30 A.D. rather approximately 95 A.D. when Christianity had reached Rome. (continued)
@HConstantine My argument is that if you disparage the accounts of jesus given by non-believers, why would you not also disparage those accounts given by believers? both bring their own bias to bear. Why is it a believer never questions the accounts of other believers when is comes to the historical veracity of Jesus?
All religious people! Use one week to think about why there can't be a God. Try only to think against God and the existence of him. I'm sure if there was a god you would be forgiven by him for thinking those thoughts afterwards. Just one week, and see what you come up with.
@justforflag2 Miracles are rooted in reality because reality is a miracle in its own right. One could ask questions forever, they will never get a good enough explanation as to why things are what they are. Reality is circular logic. Reality is self sufficient and unlimited (because nothing else exists to limit it other than itself). We can observe God, the Bible is constantly telling us that he can be observed in nature. He actually possesses every attribute of reality.
@Futureplanet Anything worshiped the way some worship Evolutionary Theory, can be considered a religion and a "God". Judeo-Christian philosophy would term it "Idolatry", the worship of a false god. Common "building blocks" of life are to be expected, even among widely separated species. Some would say that shows the hand of God. Indeed, some formerly agnostic scientists have been convinced of God's existence due to such 'Universal Order'! Worshiping one theory blinds one to others!
But who\what made god? You can say God has always been, but I can certainly make the same claim about the universe. "Occam's razor" plays a role here I think.
@Futureplanet King James Version GEN 1: 14-19 14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Cont:
@justforflag2 Depends on how you mean evidence, everyone takes other peoples word for things as reliable enough evidence that their claim occured. It happens in many real life situations. I'd say it's safe to assume that someone is honest/correct if their claim destroys the point of any negative connotations, if there's a varied amount of witness, and if their claims are rooted in reality. These apply both to religion/God (in some cases) and science (in some cases).
@glnelson1956 : Arguments based on assumptions are worthless arguments. "Something changed their mind, it must have been jebus". Did they ever find the bones of Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John? They didn't ascend to heaven. You're not going to find the bones of every person you look for. Especially if the Romans seized Jebus' body to keep it out of the hands of the apostles in order to keep them from staging a false resurrection.
@Futureplanet If the Heavens were created first, as Genesis clearly says, then the stars had to be there, because the stars are part of the heavens. The fact that the stars were not visible in the Earth sky until later only means the Earth's sky was not yet evolved and formed for them to be visible. Again, in modern science thinking, this would be the case in Earth's Primordial state, long prior to even primitive plant life forming. It is clear as a bell whether you see it or not!
U can say sorcery or magic or something ... whichever u like to say .. but no one can deny his love .. jesus love is unstoppable.. do whatever u want to do ..
This video are the thoughts of a man in power, who’s job it is to view things from a impartial angle; as such he will not allow himself to investigate what was really happening but to shut it down and report what his views were ( from his rational on the surface point of view ). If he actually listened to the Christians and allowed the Holy Spirit into his life; he would have been a changed and saved man.
God Thor, son of god Odin loves you :)
@@lewislee3392 the guy hated Jesus, which in turn, makes the biblical scriptures word true.. 😂😂.. the same people who deny him end up making the scriptures true themselves.. because of their own doing.. 😂😂
I dont mean to insult but if his love is unstoppable how can he ir you justify eternal punishment in hell? No insult intended sorry if it seems to be insulting but I'm genuinely confused with religons view of hell
@@Confirmed_Normal_Human And further more:
So Jesus says he is the only way and only believing and following him brings you salvation?
Then why is he only appearing to a very small amount of people, 295k years after we humans evolved in evolution.
He acted in a small area while all the Earth was already full of humans.
Billions and billions of people never even had the chance to know him.
And after he died, this religion spread mainly over brutal military power in North Europe, in America , in parts of Asia and in Australia.
Till today 2/3 of humans do not follow that religion, not because they are bad, but because they are socialized in other religions and convictions.
A very bad strategy of a guy that offers the ONLY way and also a very unsuccessful way.
Its very interesting how first non-believers first say Jesus never existed, then when confronted with any kind of evidence, backtrack and say well, maybe he did exist but
the spiritual part with all the miracles is false. Is there anyone, normal man, legend, or God-king in existence who has affected human history as He has? Forget the loaves and fishes; Name another person who has literally split human history.
@Futureplanet There was an official contemporary written account of Christ. It was a written Roman record called "The Acts of Pontius Pilate" written AD 26-36. While the actual records are presently lost to us, Ancient Historians cited them as reference material, so we know those records existed. And it appears the records existed up to around the 4th Century, disappearing along with other priceless Roman History records, when the Roman Empire collapsed around 400 AD.
Bollocks. Ya got nothing.
People don’t realize that 99.99+% of anything written down 2,000 years ago is long, long gone and rotted. The documents we have saved, whether histories or philosophy or plays or religious writings, were intentionally preserved because many people in many places (enough different places to survive the hundreds of sackings and burnings of cities through the passing centuries) deemed them worthy of preserving through copying for posterity.
Surviving manuscripts from the early centuries AD were incredibly fortunate to have survived, always in arid or semi-arid environments, often buried somewhere lucky enough to survive wars and natural disasters, perhaps in a cave or on the grounds an obscure monastery.
How lovely would it be to have preserved, for example, the Hebrew/Aramaic sayings Gospel of Matthew that Jerome read and considered translating at the great library of Caesarea, likely burned by the Caliphate’s conquests in the late 7th century.
The fact that we have as much early Christian writings of the Apostolic era as we do is a testament to Christianity’s achievements and cultural power.
The more you try and deny my God the more TRUTH you give to the name of Jesus Christ.
Evidence?
? Non-Christian Sinner@@mcake1234
@@mcake1234watch the video
@Futureplanet All the photos and videos I've seen of Space show stars. Using an advanced telescope such as Hubble to look deep into Space reveals solar systems, black holes, stars living, dying and dead.
Creation Day 4 is when the Sun, Moon and stars first appeared in Earth's sky. Up until that time the earth was forming, likely enveloped in mists gasses, etc, similar to Venus presently. When Earth's life-sustaining atmosphere finally developed, the skies cleared to reveal Sun, Moon, Stars.
CONT: Now, I have always thought it odd, that Genesis states that plant life began on earth on Creation Day 3, ahead of the Sun and Moon arriving in Creation Day 4. I was thinking in terms of plant life as we know it requiring the Sun to live and thrive.
However, recent Scientific discoveries in the deepest sections of the Pacific, of simple plants that can live and thrive without sunlight, shows that primitive rudimentary plants may well have existed on primeval Earth before the Sun!
I mean, supposing you believe in God, why would you need scientific explanations for things? The abrahamic God is all-powerful so is not limited by the laws of physics.
If you need evidence then your wavering in faith, either you believe in the lord or you don’t. God can do anything, w’e he decides to do, doesn’t need an explanation humans being inquisitive is what leads them to there demise. Why not pray to the source for the direct answer? Keep waiting on Science to tell you what God is? Then your going to be waiting forever and you’ll fall for anything.
A mixture of reasons: 1.) High illiteracy rates (estimated from between 85 - 99% depending on location) 2.) Much of what was written in antiquity has been lost to us now due to the tides of time. 3.) Many pagan or Jewish authors would find certain doctrines of Christianity offensive or absurd, giving them reason to show their disdain by their silence. 4.) I would be interested in knowing some specific authors by name who we have their works who should have mentioned Jesus, but did not.
Citations needed.
agreed. Like I said, read books, not church websites. The one I mentioned before seems to be very good so far, with a whole chapter dedicated to talking about HOW they determine dates and authors etc.
13 years ago wow
Title of book (s) would be appreciated if able
In hating homosexuality, you must say that they are choosing to live the way they are living. Otherwise, you have to admit that God messed up or God hates what people do for reasons out of their hands. The point is that it likely is out of their hands.
The fact that God would eternally punish someone for a finite breaking of his rules is completely unjust. Someone could stomp a baby, rape a woman, and kill 1000 people and still not deserve eternal punishment. They'd deserve a lot but not hell
I'm pretty confident not many people argue whether Jesus was a historic figure. He was. But what is disputed was whether this man Jesus, was the same man who Christians refer to as Christ in the bible. And yes I know that man's name was Jesus too.
It was actually Yeshua
@Futureplanet You may not be able to see it or comprehend, but the brief descriptions in Genesis on the formation of the universe and of how Primordial Earth appeared until its sky and atmosphere developed, make a lot of sense. Particularly if you read modern scientific thought and theory on the phases of Primordial Earth as it developed.
800 million years ago, the planet was so warm that it was enveloped in dense clouds and nothing would have been visible in the sky, but stars existed!
I didnt even look at the video,just the comments,and what i find fascinating is that atheists always seem to look for videos that are for creationism,almost like they are uncertain just like the rest of the world P.S.This is not meant to anger anyone,just saying there's no reason to argue about something you....uhh....dont believe in :)
This MAY proves that the story of jesus was indeed spread around that time.
It doesn't even prove jesus actually existed, nor that he was really the sun of god.
The romans already foresee that this was gonne be trouble :) They where right.
Jazzy J Dumbest thing I ever heard. You just heard with your ears that the most credible historian said Jesus was executed by pilate didn’t exist? So pilate, pliny, & tacitus were all insane?
CONT: When Primordial Earth's surface cooled to the point the solid cloud cover could break, then the sky would be visible and the sun could begin to have an effect on Earth's surface temperatures. The skies would then begin to resemble what we see today. Sunlight constantly on the Earth's surface would be a catalyst to evolve the primitive plant life into more and more complex plants over millions more years until the first primitive animal life appeared in the oceans.
CONT: Creation Day 5 ended about 350 million years ago with the arrival of major ocean life and flying insects on land. The Earth at this point would be recognizable to modern man with abundant plant and insect life on land. Creation Day 6 ended about 200,000 years ago with the arrival of modern man.
Genesis 1: 1-31 may not be as detailed as you want, but its description of Earth life development follows modern Scientific theory accurately to an amazing degree!
CONT: To put Genesis into the timeline of Earth Development, would look something like this:
Creation Day 1 ended about 4.5 Billion years ago with the formation of the Earth from material revolving around the sun. Creation Day 2 ended about 4.1 Billion years ago with ocean formation. Creation Day 3 ended about 3 billion years ago with simple plants. Creation Day 4 ended about 600 million years ago with ozone layer formation. The sky was now normal with visible sun,moon and stars.
CONT: The process of Earth geologic development to primitive-to-complex plant development described in the two previous comments occurred up to about 600 million years ago. Somewhere around 580-600 million years ago, primitive animal life first appeared in the oceans.
This is roughly geologic-and-life-development on Earth, per modern Science, depending upon which of several theories you choose to follow.
The Genesis account is amazingly close to modern Scientific thought on the matter.
@TheDarvus Truthfully I was testing you a bit asking about Pilate's historicity. There was no existing historic account of Pilate for almost 2000 years, so many scholars attempting to discredit the New Testament called him a fiction invented by Gospel authors. In 1961, a Roman tablet discovery dating to the 1st Century AD verified the accuracy of the Gospel accounts of Pontius Pilate.
Just wanted to see if you were inventing things.
Glad to see you are intellectually honest.
He catches the wise in their own craftiness, And the counsel of the cunning comes quickly upon them.
JOB 5:13
Now how can Skeptics deny Christ”s existence that even those people who doesn’t agree or believe in him just gave a statement about him.
@TheDarvus The problem with this scenario is that the Romans destroyed the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem in AD70. The earliest written accounts of Christ were in completed form about 30 years prior to Temple destruction. None of the Gospels, or Letters in the New Testament mention the Temple's destruction, a clear indication the documents were in completed form before that event.
(continued) When critics argue the only first hand accounts of Jesus' life are found in the Bible, it makes me wonder where else they think should be. Jesus' ministry only lasted three years and was limited to Judea (considered the ghetto of the Roman Empire). There would have been no reason given the short time frame and limited area of Jesus' ministry to have been exhaustively recorded in Roman literature without the accusation of forgery.
Jesus is king
Jesus has been spotted many times by Christians. Sometimes he is walking among us and other times he is up in heaven seated on his heavenly throne among the clouds.
Lol
By this standard of evidence the book "Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Slayer" is also true because there are plenty of references of Abraham Lincoln outside of the book.
This is what we call a false equivalence.
@@cml2176 Have you read "Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Slayer"?
@andipat100 - Flavius Josephus: He was a Jewish historian who was born in 37 CE.
Already accepted by scholars to be partially or wholly interpolation. Those writings were unheard of until the time of Eusabius in the fourth century and were never used by apologetics before that time.
@Inovocre12 True. But by that time, "Christo" had come to refer to Jesus Christ. Nevertheless, the document talks about Christians, so context would tell you that the document is referring to the object of their worship.
@andipat100 Tacitus writing almost a hundred years later, is too far removed in time to be doing anything except passing along hearsay, from stories that for two generations were passed along orally, growing with time.
Wow! A magical, half-Roman Jesus? It sure is good to know that Greco-Roman fan fiction lives on to this day!
? The most scholar agreed that Jesus is the Historical Figured in Time-Line
@johnappa The Christ Files by John Dickson. You can also get it in book form.
If you mean geographically, it's filmed around Palestine and in Italy, while being produced in Australia.
Jesus in His pre-incarnate state, Genesis 18, is strikingly like Christ eating fish with the disciples after the resurrection.
Prove it.
CONT: King James Version Gen 1: 6-8
6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
This clearly describes a cloud enveloped planet, with no visible sun, moon or stars.
@Futureplanet Oral traditions and written accounts of Christ were contemporary with his ministry in early 1st Century. The earliest document of the New Testament, the letter of James, was complete around AD40 about 7-10 years after the AD30-33 crucifixion. The four Gospels were completed AD40-70, with Mark the first and John the last. Independent accounts were written AD30-150 by Jewish/Greek/Roman sources such as Acts of Pilate,Tacitus, Josephus, Suetonius, Thallus, Lucian, Celsus, etc.
Of course Jesus lived.
He was a normal human being.
An apocalyptic preacher, that believed the world would end during his lifetime.
You’ve never read the Bible huh?
@@olacogumelo3789 Ah, you mean that man-made book with exclusively man-made content, man-made wisdom and man-made errors. You mean that bible with a god YH WH, invented 5000-3500 years ago by the Hebrews.
Yes I read it.
What is harmful about it is, that its claimed by humans to be from a god, by that reality shall adjust to this errors in the bible and not vice versa.
Also there is zero evidence for any supernatiral character or happening in the bible.
So nice man-made book from 3500 years ago , based on the human knowledge of that time.
@@olacogumelo3789 I answered you, if my answer doesnt get displayed then switch in "Sort by" from "Top comments" to "Newst first" .
There she is displayed :)
And what proof do you have of that because the only literary reference to any Jesus is the miracle performing Jesus of biblical lore
@@DoreenHamdler YOu kniow on your own that there are testimonies outside the bible of a human precher called Jesus.
There is just zero evidence from any supernatural character and event in the bible and the quran.
@Futureplanet I am perfectly willing to accept and use the present models for atomic, electronic, and evolutionary theory. I understand those models represent theories that allow us to apply observation and measurement to practical use of these disciplines.
However, I understand fully that these working models are not absolute concrete facts based in reality any more than my 1/32 scale plastic model of a Spitfire is an exact, faithful, true copy of the real WW2 fighter plane.
With some of Jesus' desciples being struggling fisherman..up to their necks in debt and payment, walking on water is clearly a metaphor for being above earthly debt with spirituality. The entire new testament tries to explain to us that we should check our spiritual "bank account" more often than not. He says you will be persecuted for believing in me. Does anybody doubt that evil conquers the world? A true believer in Jesus could not survive the world system of today.
@HConstantine Why would an anti-christian polemic be less reliable than a pro-christian polemic. Would they not be as unreliable as each other?
@Mazabuka74 There were more than 40 writers who lived and wrote during the time, or within a century after the time, that Christ is said to have lived and performed his wonderful works. Enough of the writings of these authors remains to form a library. Yet in this mass of Jewish and Pagan literature, aside from two forged passages in the works of a Jewish author, and two disputed passages in the works of roman writers, there is to be found no mention of Jesus Christ.
@Murdulo
Disbelief in God is the equivalent to saying an apple doesn't exist despite the fact that there is evidence of an object with all the attributes of an apple.
It's called denial.
@Futureplanet You are a prime example of why my agnosticism melted away. For years I listed to others of your type, put down the Bible as a "book of fairy tales" as you put it. Then I read the Bible, out of curiosity. That's when I discovered that the "enlightened types" putting the Bible down were doing so with half-truths, distortions and outright lies.
How "enlightened" and intellectually honest is one who puts down a book he has never read?
Have you read the Bible, Futureplanet?
Exactually, once I staryed reading the Bible at first it was boring but then I was filled and it became so interesting and real, I personally could finually hear from God and he spoke to me threw the word of God. It's called the living word for a reason, great revalation comes from it plus blessings.:)
God is good and very real 🙏
@glnelson1956 : Lack of evidence is not the same thing as evidence against. The holy grail was never found either, that must mean its real right? No one has been able to find thor's hammer, or the sasquach, I guess since there's no evidence to prove they don't exist, we must conclude that they do?
@TheDarvus I encourage your analyzing of the Bible for accuracy. Carefully weigh all evidence from both sides of the debate. I feel being an Agnostic is a healthy and intellectually honest stand, and it was my mindset for many, many years. Keep your mind open to BOTH sides of the debate.
It is like being a juror: consider the accused innocent until the prosecution PROVES otherwise. Likewise take the view that the Bible is inaccurate, and allow the evidence to prove/disprove.
@glnelson1956 : There is no accurate independent account. There are so may independent accounts that they have to be sifted through to cherry pick the ones that agree with what you want to personally believe. That is BAD research. Christianity is renowned for doing that, so there is really nothing you can say that deserves to be taken seriously. Nothing at all.
@snoberts I see you didn't follow the reference I gave. What Celsus presents is information he gathered from informants int he Jewish Community. It demonstrates that they had read the Gospel of John. Therefore it is not any sense an independent witness.
It is interesting that the "criticisms" of Jesus in Celsus exactly mirror attacks on Jesus in the Babylonian Talmud.
I agree. Its as if Atheist want to believe but just need that "something" to get them over the line.
is this where the band name pantera came from lmao
who cares if jesus ever existed, his stories gave some pretty good advice for life and stuff
The real reason Jesus existed so you dont go to hell
That is the main reason he existed
He did exist and not because of neat or cool advice. He took on the sins of all by dying and resurrection to save our souls from damnation. Cling to Him who loves you and you will be saved from eternal separation from God. Jesus is the ONLY way to God.
Again, Tacitus who lived much later then Jesus doesn't give any sources.
I was most surprised to see that this video wasn't under 5 seconds long.
3 and a half minutes? That's some serious padding right there.
'Duplicates are not allowed for this playlist' -- that is the RUclips notice i see when i tried to SHARE this vid and to SAVE it.
Bias? Or what?
@Murdulo
Well, for a second I thought that you had caught the depthful meaning of the first statement I made, but obviously it turned lopsided and you thought I was merely refering to human emotion alone.
If something has no "self" then it does not exist, therefore it is selfless.
What I was saying is that you're half right by thinking God does not exist, because he is selfless.
If Jesus isn't real, then why is Christmas the best of all possible holidays ??
"The truth of the matter is that very few Christians believe the Bible. If they did, then they wouldn't be on RUclips arguing with people. They would be outside trying to save people from eternal damnation."
One in the same.
Unbelievable man lol. 14 years later and people still continue to argue on RUclips. Which means that even in the early days of the internet people were arguing. Now it's gotten 100% worse
Good video i gave it a like. Very helpfull
I'm not attacking anyone. I'm attacking Christianity. The sad part is that we can't ever disprove that Jesus existed. Things like this video are cool to hear about. At least it explains how the name of Jesus would start the world's greatest epidemic.
@piip4 Yeah and they were taught through the bible text that the earth is not only spherical Isaiah40:22 but that he(God) hangs the earth on nothing. Job 26:7.
However occams theory can be applied to many things it does not tell us where life came from only surmize/theorize on what already exists which is fine, but tells us nothing.
actually they werent. The gospels were anonymous, written at least 40 years after jesus' supposed death. The rest of the new testament was written even later.
There is no evidence showing that Jesus had supernatural abilities, or that he rose from the dead. There are only stories about it written by non-witnesses decades later.
😁😁the Fact that even PAGAN enemies of Jesus , such as Celcus accuse Jesus of Egyptian Sorcery shows there is something SPECIAL about Jesus...
“Stories” than can save your life, but you type with such disgust? Keep waiting on evidence.
If Jesus Showed up in your face you will doubt him...!
@Futureplanet I had many years in Electronics, including two years toward an Engineering Degree, so I'm a bit familiar with Atomic theory. The 'Holy Grail" quest in Physics for many years now is the Unified Field Theory, a quest that I feel blinds the discipline to other possibilities.
Likewise, Evolution's "Holy Grail" quest for a single root to the theoretical tree of evolution I feel handicaps and blinds the field to other likely possibilities!
None so blind as those who refuse to see!
@Futureplanet
Wrong.
This is correct Genesis Order:
Day 1: Heavens, Earth and light
Day 2: division of waters in firmament from waters below firmament. (Firmament would eventually become the Earth sky)
Day 3: dry land appears, separating the waters into oceans and seas; first plants appear;
Day 4: Earth sky with sun,moon and stars to form signs, seasons, days and years;
Day 5: Life in the oceans and creatures that can fly.
Day 6; animal life on land; and at the very end, man.
It’s always hard to trust historical data, when a persons delivery is loaded with subtext and contempt. I clicked for some unbiased, objective info. This was just a drive by character assignation!!! 😂
@Futureplanet I think you should just accept the fact that I see things far differently than you. My reading of Genesis is a valid interpretation of the very brief description of the origin of the Universe and Earth. You may disagree, and see things differently, and that I have no problem with. You view is yours and does not affect me. I respect your right to see things your way, but don't expect me to agree with you.
A mature way to handle this is to "agree to disagree".
@glnelson1956 Because when scientists talk about the formation of black holes, or super nova, they say that the day they are formed is when they suddenly become visible.
That's why all galaxies only formed 50 years ago. Because before then, we couldn't see them.
So, if a scientist says, galaxies formed billions of years ago, that ACTUALLY mean, because our telescopes advanced 50 years ago, now they are visible, hence they are made 50 years ago.
Ignore the words, and insert your own meaning.
@TheDarvus Do you have any information on Pontius Pilate? Many scholars disputing the New Testament say that Pilate did not exist and is also one of the fictions created by the New Testament authors.
Cont: Genesis states that earth life began in the ocean on the 5th Creation Day, and that life on land did not start until the 6th Creation Day, with man arriving near the very end of the 6th Creation Day.
If you will check modern Scientific thought as to the pattern of life development on Earth, you will find that it follows the pattern outlined in Genesis. Genesis explained it several thousand years before "Science" even existed.
@Futureplanet, Cont: Science cannot explain how a person, dead with no brain function or heart function, can describe in incredible detail, Medical conversations with the team working on him, accurately describe family conversations occurring 3 floors below them, accurately identify items on the hospital roof 10 floors up, & visit a "new world" meeting long-dead relatives they never knew existed.
Science weakly says "hallucinations".
How can a no-activity brain & heart "hallucinate"?
Cont: The reason I have come to so distrust Science is that so many researchers have a financial stake in their pet theories, and it may often be in their best interest to "cook' or "reinterpret" many test results in order to keep the money flowing.
That is why is is so useful to follow the money trail of a "theory".
Scientists are as corrupt and crooked as the rest of humanity, and not to be generally trusted.
Nice.
Monday evng - May 31, 2021.
Sounds like L. Ron Hubbard's origin.
That tells me that they didn't give a shit. The savior of mankind comes to earth and dies for us, performing miracles along the way, all to float back to heaven and NO ONE writes anything for at least 12 years? Give me a break. I could see waiting 12 years to write something if it wasn't extremely important to mankind, but these people supposedly believed people were going to hell for not believing in Jesus. That seems urgent enough to start writing rather than waiting 12 or more years.
@Futureplanet Again, you are either too dense, or too biased to see it and that is not my problem. I have said clearly time and time again that the "Heavens" or "Space as we commonly call it today has solar systems, stars, etc. Genesis clearly said it came first. By day 4 in Genesis, Earth's atmosphere had formed to the point that stars, sun and moon are visible. Science pretty well agrees with that sequence of events.
This is the 3rd time I've described my understanding of Genesis to you
@Futureplanet That evolution within a species occurs is clearly evident, and few will question that. It is when the known concept of species evolution is applied to "one common source' for all life on earth that we run into problems. While I would agree that is one concept to consider, there are also too many other possibilities to focus on just one.
When a Scientist makes the "one evolutionary source" theory his "God and Religion" he is blinded and biased to other possibilities.
I don't have a problem with the idea that this person we call "Jesus" did live. That a charismatic drifter and gifted orator really did influence and affect the lives and minds of so many people that heard of him. I'm quite willing to believe that's true. I simply don't believe that his existence means that any supernatural qualities attributed to him in texts about him *must* be true just because he was alive. He was a man, not a wizard.
@glnelson1956 Heavens means space.
Stars are mentioned later. Why would have mention that he made the stars on the 4th day, if he already made them on the 1st day.
WRONG WRONG WRONG.
Funny most of those government were pagan they believed in statues, but Jesus that did miracles to the needy, he was called a sorcerer. Mathew 10 ,25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household!
@Murdulo
I've pointed out the obvious evidence for God twice already, that doesn't make me deluded, it makes you ignorant.
Truth is omnipresent (selfless), all powerful, omniscient and self sustaining.
It's ironic sure, but hard to dismiss the logic in occams razor. As for the big bang theory, it seems plausible but I'm not going to pretend I know what really happened. I just know that I'd rather trust it than a book written at a time when people thought the earth was flat.
actually I don't care if he existed or not and if he did I doubt that he could defy the laws of physics and chemistry as he is purported to have done...anyway we are all divine beings ourselves .
It is worth noting that just because Jesus was worshipped doesn't mean that he was worshipped as _ho theos_ (the God): God in the fullest sense of that term. We know that Christians often worshipped Jesus in the first few centuries as divine but _not_ divine in the sense of the absolute. Subordinationism was orthodoxy until 325 AD and many Arians thrived right up until 381 AD and even afterwards.
Beg to disagree. If you look at the letters of Tacitus written to the emperor as well as the letters from Pliny the younger, you clearly see from their accounts how these “Christians” worshiped Jesus as God, how resolute they were even in the face of persecution (burning, crucifixion, fear alive to wild animals). They discuss forms of punishment, how to test that people aren’t “Christians”. I use the terms “Christians” in inverted commas as this was not the term the actual Christians used till much later as it was a derogatory term. The term Christians is only mentioned 3 times in the New Testament and every time it was in reference to what they (real Christians) are called, and that they should be proud to stand up for Christ. They (Roman governors and emperors) also mention how their temples are getting empty due to this religion and how persecution is the only means to control these people.
Within less than 30 years after Christ death the gospel had spread across all of Europe and the Roman Empire and how the Roman Empire saw this as a big concern. This is from Roman text, not from biblical text. Why would people give up their lives and be tortured in the most brutal of ways by denouncing Roman gods knowing that they will be killed doing so if they weren’t convinced Jesus was God? Why would the “Christians” follow as these writes said “convicted and crucified criminal” if these people did not understand that Jesus was the Son of God, and being God? How would this faith spread so quickly? So sorry Michael, its ok if you don’t believe what is written in the bible, but how can you deny none biblical text written by highly accepted historic Roman writers, governors and even emperors? Go look at these letters, it’s amazing historical text.
@@aeasthouse316 I think you have misunderstood what I wrote. The Greek language distinguishes between _ho theos_ (God with the definite article) and _theos_ (god without the definite article). When Pliny the Younger wrote his famous letter ( _Letters_ 10.96-97) about the Christians worshipping Jesus he does _not_ say "as God" but "as a god" (or in other words, not as _ho theos_ but as _theos_ ). One can say the same about Tacitus. Moreover, there is no text in the Bible which says that Jesus is _ho theos_ ; that term is reserved exclusively for God the Father. The Bible describes Jesus as the _son of God_ but never says God the son. David, the Israelites, etc., are all described in the Bible as "son of God" or "sons of God", so that title alone cannot prove that Jesus is God the son. Finally, most Christian theologians were subordinationist up until 325 AD.
@@bayreuth79 Pliny did not know God, so he will say that the Christians served “a god” as they thought even emperors were gods and they (Romans) believed in a multitude of gods.
I can recommend a book for you to read: Jesus as God by Murray J Harris; He is a Greek scholar reflecting a precise knowledge of Greek grammar and syntax, that I don’t have. So I can’t debate this in much detail. But in Harris’s book, he goes into great detail on the use of “ho theos” and “theos”. As I understand it, the NT generally reserves the term theos for God the Father (and apparently never uses it to speak of more than one member of the Trinity at a time, just as Yhwh and elohim in the OT do not refer to the Trinity), on seven occasions it uses the term, both with and without the definite article (‘the’) of Jesus (Jn. 1:1; 1:18; 20:28; Rom. 9:5; Tit. 2:13; Heb. 1:8; 2 Pet. 1:1); when the term is used with the definite article, as it always is, except in John 1:1, 18 and Romans 9:5, it has a titular sense. When it is used without the article, the generic sense is stressed; ontological Christology is both the basis and zenith of NT Christology. While the Christology of the NT is predominantly functional, except in the aforementioned seven verses, the functional Christology necessarily presupposes and is based upon ontological Christology; ontological Christology is not a late NT development, as it is found immediately after the resurrection in the confession of Thomas recorded in John 20:28 and is also found in the mid-50s in the doxological statement in Romans 9:5; ontological Christology is not limited to one author or regional development of early Christianity since it is found in the Pauline, Petrine and Johannine corpora as well as in Hebrews; the terms theos and ho theos were frequently interchangeable in the NT.
@@bayreuth79
Matt 1:23, and they will call Him Immanuel, which means, “God [= ho theos] with us” clearly refers to Jesus as the angel said. Note further that this is the first occurrence of the word "theos" in all the four Gospels. Therefore, it cannot be anaphoric.
John 20:28, Thomas said to him, 'My Lord and my God'. Again, this is ho theos and addressed directly to Jesus.
Titus 2:13, “…our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ.” ho theos = Jesus Christ.
Heb 1:8, “About the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever’”. ho theos = Jesus Christ
Heb 1:9, "therefore O God, Your God, has anointed You above Your companions with the oil of joy.”
2 Peter 1:1, “…righteousness of our God and Saviour, Jesus Christ.”
1 John 5:20, “And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true-in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.” Please note: “He (Jesus) is the true God......”. How can Jesus be “the true God” if He is not God?
@@aeasthouse316 Pliny the Younger was a highly educated Roman aristocrat who was aware of the One God. St Paul in Romans 1:20 says “For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.” Yes, it is true that the Greco-Roman pagans worshipped gods but it’s is also true that they were aware of “ho theos”, as is evidenced by some of the writings of thr Greek and Roman philosophers. So, my point is that Pliny the Younger’s letter is only evidence that the early Christians regarded Jesus as a god. Professor Larry Hurtado, who is one of the world’s leading experts on early Christianity, says that the early Christians “worshipped Jesus alongside the one God of Israel”. To worship “alongside” is not necessarily to worship “as” the One God. And it remains a fact that the NT never refers to Jesus as “ho theos”. John 1.1 refers to the Logos but despite the English translations the Greek is not “was God” but “was a god” or “was divine”.
Your interpretation of the NT is just that: an interpretation. One can say the same about what I have said. But there are factually no texts that directly refer to Jesus as “ho theos”.
Disciples & others never said they have witnessed an empty tomb & a risen Jesus. The early writers fabricated the resurrection hoax by making up fake testimonials that the disciples & others have witnessed an empty tomb & a risen Jesus.
You think Paul just invented spending two weeks talking with Peter, one of Jesus’ close friends and followers, and James, Jesus’ brother, and their resurrection accounts he mentions?
John’s gospel explicitly & repeatedly claims to be eyewitness testimony. Now, I totally get the argument among secular scholars that that was a Johannine community of John’s followers publishing based on his teaching, but to claim they invented it whole cloth isn’t an evidenced claim.
@CALICOTV301
"How about disbelief in God is equivalent to saying that there is no Santa Claus."
Nope, that's a pretty fail comparison.
God, by definition, can be and is seen in reality.
And comparing Jesus to Santa Claus is like comparing the billion year universe theory to Santa Claus.
If the universe is truly billions of years old, prove it now, without any of the correct equipment. Then and only then will we Christians show you miracles without the right equipment (doubtless faith).
Yes
Hey, how is God “seen in reality”? Thanks
@laflugantabastardo the nazarene texts, the ebionite texts, the books the catholic church threw out cause it wouldnt fit their war/killing animal is godly agenda, etc...
@Futureplanet Primordial Earth's surface was so warm that it was enveloped in constant cloud cover. The sky as we know it today did not exist, and from the Earth's surface, no stars, sun or moon could possibly be seen. Until Earth's surface cooled sufficiently over many millions of years, the sun had little- to-no effect on Earth's surface temperatures. There would have been no animal life of any type at this time, only gradually evolving simple plant life.
@laflugantabastardo according to the earliest souces he never ate the lamb, that was inserted in by the catholci church editors who persecuted the priests who refused to eat meat. as a nazarene which jesus was he would never eat a innocent animal.
Jesus concentrated His ministry in various provinces of Judea- not secular hubs of the ancient world like Rome or Alexandria. Christianity spread into the surrounding areas after the life of Jesus. I would be far more suspicious of a Roman historian writing an excerpt about Jesus in 30 A.D. rather approximately 95 A.D. when Christianity had reached Rome. (continued)
@HConstantine My argument is that if you disparage the accounts of jesus given by non-believers, why would you not also disparage those accounts given by believers? both bring their own bias to bear. Why is it a believer never questions the accounts of other believers when is comes to the historical veracity of Jesus?
All religious people! Use one week to think about why there can't be a God. Try only to think against God and the existence of him. I'm sure if there was a god you would be forgiven by him for thinking those thoughts afterwards. Just one week, and see what you come up with.
Jesus performed miracles and called himself god
@justforflag2
Miracles are rooted in reality because reality is a miracle in its own right. One could ask questions forever, they will never get a good enough explanation as to why things are what they are. Reality is circular logic.
Reality is self sufficient and unlimited (because nothing else exists to limit it other than itself).
We can observe God, the Bible is constantly telling us that he can be observed in nature. He actually possesses every attribute of reality.
@Futureplanet Anything worshiped the way some worship Evolutionary Theory, can be considered a religion and a "God". Judeo-Christian philosophy would term it "Idolatry", the worship of a false god.
Common "building blocks" of life are to be expected, even among widely separated species. Some would say that shows the hand of God. Indeed, some formerly agnostic scientists have been convinced of God's existence due to such 'Universal Order'!
Worshiping one theory blinds one to others!
@TT99976
I doubt that, very much. The modern day magic tricks don't make drinkable wine, just a look alike.
But who\what made god?
You can say God has always been, but I can certainly make the same claim about the universe. "Occam's razor" plays a role here I think.
@Futureplanet King James Version GEN 1: 14-19
14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Cont:
@justforflag2
Depends on how you mean evidence, everyone takes other peoples word for things as reliable enough evidence that their claim occured. It happens in many real life situations.
I'd say it's safe to assume that someone is honest/correct if their claim destroys the point of any negative connotations, if there's a varied amount of witness, and if their claims are rooted in reality. These apply both to religion/God (in some cases) and science (in some cases).
@mmaghola Romulus and Remus were likely real people, that doesnt mean the myths surrounding them are all factual.
These writings only prove that the fokelore of a man called Jesus were in circulation, not that he actually lived.
@glnelson1956 : Arguments based on assumptions are worthless arguments. "Something changed their mind, it must have been jebus". Did they ever find the bones of Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John? They didn't ascend to heaven. You're not going to find the bones of every person you look for. Especially if the Romans seized Jebus' body to keep it out of the hands of the apostles in order to keep them from staging a false resurrection.
@Inovocre12 Would you please cite your sources?
@Futureplanet If the Heavens were created first, as Genesis clearly says, then the stars had to be there, because the stars are part of the heavens. The fact that the stars were not visible in the Earth sky until later only means the Earth's sky was not yet evolved and formed for them to be visible. Again, in modern science thinking, this would be the case in Earth's Primordial state, long prior to even primitive plant life forming.
It is clear as a bell whether you see it or not!