*Texts Mentioned* - The History of Ideas by Syed Noman Ul-Haq. - María Rosa Menocal(author). - Que(e)rying Religion. - Lecture on Iqbal. If I have missed anything, Please reply and I will add it to this list
Wonderful. Everyone from the subcontinent needs to listen to this discussion till the end. The questions Dr sb raised are really shocking. Especially about languages, he's right we can't even speak a single language.
Good Job Shahzad. Exceptionally good podcast with Syed Nomanul Haq sb. He is a very learned and intellectual historian and scholar. Please also arrange some long podcast with Ammar Ali Jan, we rarely listen to him on any other forum and there are lots of listeners wanted to hear from him.
Man!! I thoroughly enjoyed this episode! I really want to learn how you form and think of questions. They're super demanding and on point. Love it! Although reading the title - I thought it'd be about the comparative analysis of Islamic History. According to my understanding, you only covered Islamic Golden Era. What about the dark side of the Islamic Era? One must address it and I would love it coming from a modern Islamic scholar. Also, Shehzad, damn it start learning Sindhi brooo! :D Much love, Abhinav.
nice podcast shehzad bhai. Im really into Islamic history and its so sad that our people dont recognize it. It can give the young generation something to be proud of. Schools may example de ke hum bacho ko sekhain ke look what people did back then. ek tarhan ki motivation.
@Temporal Fascist back then meant after the death of prophet Muhammad and before renaissance. my friend look at the inventions that were made by Muslims pre renaissance. and we achieved a lot. What I meant was that by giving examples of those ppl, will encourage younger ppl do achieve great things in their respective careers. I mean just look at the contribution of Muslims, after the 18th century, to the world, we were looted, destroyed. So if only we could learn from the past could have helped. And don't come at slavery, it existed in America until 19th century, it was everywhere. It wasn't only done by the first Islamic civilization.
yaar Shehzad please mention a list of text and authors mentioned in the shownotes. I have been googling Anna Maria Minokal for the past 20 minutes. I believe the Dr. meant María Rosa Menocal, who was Yale professor that wrote on Spanish and Castillan history during Arab rule. I will compile all the text mentioned once I am done listening.
@@ZAIN9858 getting to this podcast now - will binge watch. TPE introduced me to DR. Ilhan Niaz - I was in awe - he is one of my fav indeed - it’s been a challenge to get access to his books though :(.
Bari mushkil se yai video again dhundi..toba. Kuch bht important points thay jo again sunnay ty... accounting ki koi jga a he nahi academia mn ..zehnun ko jla dety hain.. Accounting mn khwabun ki gunjaesh nahi a.. Kindly explain it in simple way...infact make a short clip of this part. Basically many of mine finance colleagues did not like this narrative but i loved this one
I would recommend Pankaj Mishra's The Age of Anger for understanding more on issue of hyper nationalism, terrorism and its relation with pushback of post-colonial culture against modernity. Also, please call him, so I can genuinely understand his book more. 😏
Nice discussion Shehzad. I suggest you to invite Devdutt Pattnaik a mythologist who is a Gay by preference. You can discuss regarding LGBTQ in religion he has written a book also on it.
13:57 OMG, Just yesterday I heard abt Khairabadi School of Logic in an old podcast, with Arafat Mazhar, and now this gets mentioned again. wht a coincidence.
You know your question regarding whether Shams and Rumi having a sexual romance (alongside the love for God)..I want to share my take on it: With what I know.. Shams was looking for a student when he found Rumi, and since Shams was already a Master so perhaps the answer would be no even if the desire was present.. The other reason I think the answer would be no is because let's say the desire was present, their love for God probably was a working to eliminate the sexual desire completely.. And I also think that when you elevate to the stature of a teacher/or master, then Shams's entire purpose and desire was to get the yearning out of Rumi..so the separation between the two again may reflect on that..meaning Shams playing hard to get haha In short: The desire may have been present, but how much was it fulfilled..we dont know :)
@@ThePakistanExperience I think it's more so that the lover acts as a mirror to one's own self. And when the lover is taken away from you, it humbles the seeker (or breaks the shadow-ego/pride) and the seeker becomes one with God. The lover was only the filler to that void within the seeker all along. Like a catalyst you know.. Also, we manifest our deepest desires.. and the deepest desire in my opinion is to become one with God in order to Create.. Then this can take one on the intellectual high road, or make you procreate..
I really like these lines (seemed appropriate).. Pyas yarron ko ab is mor pe le aayi hai Reit chamki tou ye samjhe ke samandar deikha Itna be-his keh pighalta hi na tha baaton se Admi tha keh tarasha hua pathar deikha
Overall, good podcast. Very progressive. Eagerly wait for podcast with same gentleman in Iqbal. Bollywood is popular culture and Entertainment. Dont play down the Arts that go into preparing Bollywood Cinema.
Why do you only see colonization as a problem when whites occupy our lands ? Don’t you think “ brown “ ( read non European) people have not oppressed each other with the worst kind of colonialism/ imperialism?
I wonder what would everyone's reaction be when you call historians focused on Hinduism or Buddhism or other Indic faiths or Darshanas. Would they even be called historians? Would you be scared that someone else is asserting their faith? Would it scare you that there are thriving ideas, stories and philosophies beyond what you consider as Islamic ideas?
This guy just proved Hassan Nisar’s point by not giving any examples of any south Asian Muslim’s contribution in Science, technology, philosophy or any other academics field. He kept giving examples of some 10th century Arabs. Bhai let’s accept the reality and make an effort to do better in these fields. Come out of jang o jadal and focus on taleem so we can contribute better.
Obviously, I meant Indian subcontinent when I said South Asia? How many examples you? Okay not all Arabs, then you can add Turks. You are missing the point here my friend, stop glorifying Arabs, Turks and whoever else is not from our land. Let’s work for our own glory.
1. Applauses for that wonderful piece of thought. Should be enshrined somewhere. 2. Why don't just let the people decide whether there were any abuse in my comments. I had just asked a fellow commenter to explain the word kafir to me and what status does he hold under Islamic law. I don't see any abuse in that. If anybody do pls reply. 3. Also I had talked a bit about pathological lying, seems to fit here completely. 4. Reasons you better know. How can I tell. My simple argument was that everybody in Pakistan knows that they are hindu converts to islam , anybody denying that is fooling himself. Yet don't associate himself with the history and academic achievement of his own forefathers that is Hindus is delusional and would never reach right conclusions. Still blabbering about Arabs Spain European conquest of islam make a pointless discussion . Shows inferiority complex nothing else. Reviewing a content on which I wasted my time on is not abuse.arabs or Saudis will never accept the muslims of subcontinent as their equals.period. why keep harping on their achievements if there were any as your own and make a fool out of yourself. Anyway best of luck. If anything they will take you as mercenaries.
There is no point of having such superficial discussions where you just scratch the surface and stroll forward. It's just that it's too uncomfortable to truly discuss how Islam was introduced into the subcontinent and what horrific atrocities it has subjected the people to and that too when it is discussed by the muslims of India Pakistan and Bangladesh as they very well know that there ancestors were hindu that were forced to convert under a hanging sword. Adding insult to the injury is that these hindu converts not only now have to defend the Ill deeds done under Islamic theocracy but the problem also got accentuated by the creation of Pakistan that have completly divorced them from truth. The identity crisis is such that if they truly discuss and accept the contribution that this great land of their forefathers called Bharat has made to the world would shook the very foundation of Pakistan and largely of Islam in subcontinent. This narcicism of Islam is highly questionable and well red and thinking muslims are aware of that that the writings of Quran and other Islamic texts makes little sense and are highly problematic and are not eligible for providing any of the basic human rights. They very well know that most of these problems that the host keeps discussing in his podcasts are the results of these teachings of islam but the narcicism and violence won't let him question that openly and they will always keep discussing about the same problems again and again and again with no end to it until they return to what they truly were , which I believe they never would because the narcicism won't let them. The history of the subcontinent is the history of Sanatan and if anybody would try to manufacture alternate truth would always get it wrong and would reach devastating result. The subcontinent rose with Sanatan ,saw its greatest heights under it , faltered with the introduction of abrahmic relegions and is doomed if the the abrahmic relegions gained any more power and that would destructive for the humans here be it of any religion. It's better the people of this land be it Hindu or any other wake up and return to the original.
There is a lot of doubts I personally have with Islam but to say that somehow Hinduism is better than Islam is utterly delusional. Islam can be intellectually challenged by the likes of New Atheists but Hinduism doesn't even have a remote chance to intellectually challenge Islam.
Keep lying to yourself. Best of luck to you . If this makes you feel happy then be it. Just one thing inferiority complex is a sure shot recipe of disaster. Have a great life.
@@juhebhassan2617 Except for the Caste System & Sati Tradition - Can name something evil in the ancient Indian society? Also, Sati was prevalent only after 700 or 1500 CE i.e after Islamic invasions. Mostly in Rajputs - Defenders of our North-Western borders.
@@abhinav5534 look i know you are asking the question from a less-bigoted place than the original commentor whom i had to put down so i will answer you: I am not talking of ill practices of religion when i say "intellectually challenge",,what i mean is challenging the very core of a belief system,,its very existence. Like whether we even need religion,,what is its necessity,,would we better off without religion? Peace✌
You can tell someone has real knowledge when you see how calmly he took on every subject! Loved it! Thanks Shehzad:)
This has to be the best Pakistan Experience podcast. So much to learn and think about. Brilliant questions (as always).
Best episode ho aur us mai Shahram Azhar na ho? Aisa kaisay hosakta hay boss ❤
Apart from history lessons, I have learned so much urdu through these podcasts. Thankyou Shehzad!
*Texts Mentioned*
- The History of Ideas by Syed Noman Ul-Haq.
- María Rosa Menocal(author).
- Que(e)rying Religion.
- Lecture on Iqbal.
If I have missed anything, Please reply and I will add it to this list
You are doing God's work. The course was History of Ideas though, not the text. Course pack hoga uska shayad ab tak meray pass :p
Wonderful. Everyone from the subcontinent needs to listen to this discussion till the end. The questions Dr sb raised are really shocking. Especially about languages, he's right we can't even speak a single language.
Good Job Shahzad. Exceptionally good podcast with Syed Nomanul Haq sb. He is a very learned and intellectual historian and scholar. Please also arrange some long podcast with Ammar Ali Jan, we rarely listen to him on any other forum and there are lots of listeners wanted to hear from him.
@@ThePakistanExperience Agreed and both were very interesting but it's
been a long time ago. We are waiting for him to listen again.
What a discourse . Thanks Shehzad bring it up to all of us . Really enjoyed it . and what a pity It has only 146 likes so far .
Man!! I thoroughly enjoyed this episode! I really want to learn how you form and think of questions. They're super demanding and on point. Love it! Although reading the title - I thought it'd be about the comparative analysis of Islamic History. According to my understanding, you only covered Islamic Golden Era. What about the dark side of the Islamic Era? One must address it and I would love it coming from a modern Islamic scholar.
Also, Shehzad, damn it start learning Sindhi brooo! :D
Much love,
Abhinav.
nice podcast shehzad bhai. Im really into Islamic history and its so sad that our people dont recognize it. It can give the young generation something to be proud of. Schools may example de ke hum bacho ko sekhain ke look what people did back then. ek tarhan ki motivation.
@Temporal Fascist back then meant after the death of prophet Muhammad and before renaissance. my friend look at the inventions that were made by Muslims pre renaissance. and we achieved a lot. What I meant was that by giving examples of those ppl, will encourage younger ppl do achieve great things in their respective careers. I mean just look at the contribution of Muslims, after the 18th century, to the world, we were looted, destroyed. So if only we could learn from the past could have helped. And don't come at slavery, it existed in America until 19th century, it was everywhere. It wasn't only done by the first Islamic civilization.
@Temporal Fascist Agreed. But Islamic golden age period is so fascinating.
Believe me im learning alot from your podcast
Why don't you invite Pankaj Mishra?
I wish the recording was better. Please invite him again, although I think he's not very well now, health wise.
Didn't find any book with the title "Art before paper" does anyone know which book is being referred @1:12:33
yaar Shehzad please mention a list of text and authors mentioned in the shownotes. I have been googling Anna Maria Minokal for the past 20 minutes. I believe the Dr. meant María Rosa Menocal, who was Yale professor that wrote on Spanish and Castillan history during Arab rule. I will compile all the text mentioned once I am done listening.
Another Gem from TPE. Please do bring Dr. Ilhan Niaz. Please.
@@ThePakistanExperience Zabardast, maalik ab Ilhan Niaz aa rahe hain to phir Dr. Mubarak Ali ko bhi bula hi leen.
@@ZAIN9858 getting to this podcast now - will binge watch. TPE introduced me to DR. Ilhan Niaz - I was in awe - he is one of my fav indeed - it’s been a challenge to get access to his books though :(.
Very informative and nice episode
Bari mushkil se yai video again dhundi..toba.
Kuch bht important points thay jo again sunnay ty...
accounting ki koi jga a he nahi academia mn ..zehnun ko jla dety hain..
Accounting mn khwabun ki gunjaesh nahi a..
Kindly explain it in simple way...infact make a short clip of this part.
Basically many of mine finance colleagues did not like this narrative but i loved this one
brilliant shehzad bhai..
Does Dr. sahab has a podcast?
You should do a podcast with Ghalib Kamal or Harris Sultan.
@Richard Dawkins cringe
@Richard Dawkins cringe
I would recommend Pankaj Mishra's The Age of Anger for understanding more on issue of hyper nationalism, terrorism and its relation with pushback of post-colonial culture against modernity. Also, please call him, so I can genuinely understand his book more. 😏
This really give me hope for Pakistan!!
Amazing teacher.
Nice discussion Shehzad. I suggest you to invite Devdutt Pattnaik a mythologist who is a Gay by preference. You can discuss regarding LGBTQ in religion he has written a book also on it.
21:05 I wholeheartedly agree with Dr. Noman on this. Anyone can spread bullshit even when they know they are wrong.
13:57 OMG, Just yesterday I heard abt Khairabadi School of Logic in an old podcast, with Arafat Mazhar, and now this gets mentioned again. wht a coincidence.
Was he saying that cases against Arif Naqvi were politically motivated? He had cases against him in USA.
And a great guy
You simply can't live on past glory.
You know your question regarding whether Shams and Rumi having a sexual romance (alongside the love for God)..I want to share my take on it:
With what I know.. Shams was looking for a student when he found Rumi, and since Shams was already a Master so perhaps the answer would be no even if the desire was present..
The other reason I think the answer would be no is because let's say the desire was present, their love for God probably was a working to eliminate the sexual desire completely..
And I also think that when you elevate
to the stature of a teacher/or master, then Shams's entire purpose and desire was to get the yearning out of Rumi..so the separation between the two again may reflect on that..meaning Shams playing hard to get haha
In short: The desire may have been present, but how much was it fulfilled..we dont know :)
@@ThePakistanExperience I think it's more so that the lover acts as a mirror to one's own self. And when the lover is taken away from you, it humbles the seeker (or breaks the shadow-ego/pride) and the seeker becomes one with God.
The lover was only the filler to that void within the seeker all along. Like a catalyst you know..
Also, we manifest our deepest desires.. and the deepest desire in my opinion is to become one with God in order to Create..
Then this can take one on the intellectual high road, or make you procreate..
I really like these lines (seemed appropriate)..
Pyas yarron ko ab is mor pe le aayi hai
Reit chamki tou ye samjhe ke samandar deikha
Itna be-his keh pighalta hi na tha baaton se
Admi tha keh tarasha hua pathar deikha
Overall, good podcast. Very progressive.
Eagerly wait for podcast with same gentleman in Iqbal.
Bollywood is popular culture and Entertainment. Dont play down the Arts that go into preparing Bollywood Cinema.
Hi, first time here...please take prof ahmad rafique akhtar too on your invite to list.
Dont mention Kashmir as long as you dont acknowledge the atrocities and exodus of minorities from Kashmir.
After watching this podcast, I can safely conclude that Shehzad needs a haircut 😏😂
understanding muhamad by ali sinha
Questions and answers are not maching...
Man told about creating Taliban. But the question is what tool they used to create the monster
One more
Why do you only see colonization as a problem when whites occupy our lands ? Don’t you think “ brown “ ( read non European) people have not oppressed each other with the worst kind of colonialism/ imperialism?
shehzad bhai habib kis cheez k 13 lakh leta hai annually
I wonder what would everyone's reaction be when you call historians focused on Hinduism or Buddhism or other Indic faiths or Darshanas. Would they even be called historians? Would you be scared that someone else is asserting their faith? Would it scare you that there are thriving ideas, stories and philosophies beyond what you consider as Islamic ideas?
@@ThePakistanExperience RSS is not Thekethar of Hindus..It is a cultural organisation ...
This guy just proved Hassan Nisar’s point by not giving any examples of any south Asian Muslim’s contribution in Science, technology, philosophy or any other academics field. He kept giving examples of some 10th century Arabs.
Bhai let’s accept the reality and make an effort to do better in these fields. Come out of jang o jadal and focus on taleem so we can contribute better.
Obviously, I meant Indian subcontinent when I said South Asia? How many examples you?
Okay not all Arabs, then you can add Turks.
You are missing the point here my friend, stop glorifying Arabs, Turks and whoever else is not from our land.
Let’s work for our own glory.
@@heyyo6050 Still not South Asian. It is Persian contribution
The channel keeps deleting my comments, so much for free speech.
1. Applauses for that wonderful piece of thought. Should be enshrined somewhere.
2. Why don't just let the people decide whether there were any abuse in my comments. I had just asked a fellow commenter to explain the word kafir to me and what status does he hold under Islamic law. I don't see any abuse in that. If anybody do pls reply.
3. Also I had talked a bit about pathological lying, seems to fit here completely.
4. Reasons you better know. How can I tell.
My simple argument was that everybody in Pakistan knows that they are hindu converts to islam , anybody denying that is fooling himself. Yet don't associate himself with the history and academic achievement of his own forefathers that is Hindus is delusional and would never reach right conclusions. Still blabbering about Arabs Spain European conquest of islam make a pointless discussion . Shows inferiority complex nothing else. Reviewing a content on which I wasted my time on is not abuse.arabs or Saudis will never accept the muslims of subcontinent as their equals.period. why keep harping on their achievements if there were any as your own and make a fool out of yourself. Anyway best of luck. If anything they will take you as mercenaries.
Again talking about Arab scientists, what is the contribution of South Asian Muslims??
so sad that such highly qualified people are plying the role of muslim apologists..
There is no point of having such superficial discussions where you just scratch the surface and stroll forward. It's just that it's too uncomfortable to truly discuss how Islam was introduced into the subcontinent and what horrific atrocities it has subjected the people to and that too when it is discussed by the muslims of India Pakistan and Bangladesh as they very well know that there ancestors were hindu that were forced to convert under a hanging sword. Adding insult to the injury is that these hindu converts not only now have to defend the Ill deeds done under Islamic theocracy but the problem also got accentuated by the creation of Pakistan that have completly divorced them from truth. The identity crisis is such that if they truly discuss and accept the contribution that this great land of their forefathers called Bharat has made to the world would shook the very foundation of Pakistan and largely of Islam in subcontinent. This narcicism of Islam is highly questionable and well red and thinking muslims are aware of that that the writings of Quran and other Islamic texts makes little sense and are highly problematic and are not eligible for providing any of the basic human rights. They very well know that most of these problems that the host keeps discussing in his podcasts are the results of these teachings of islam but the narcicism and violence won't let him question that openly and they will always keep discussing about the same problems again and again and again with no end to it until they return to what they truly were , which I believe they never would because the narcicism won't let them. The history of the subcontinent is the history of Sanatan and if anybody would try to manufacture alternate truth would always get it wrong and would reach devastating result. The subcontinent rose with Sanatan ,saw its greatest heights under it , faltered with the introduction of abrahmic relegions and is doomed if the the abrahmic relegions gained any more power and that would destructive for the humans here be it of any religion. It's better the people of this land be it Hindu or any other wake up and return to the original.
There is a lot of doubts I personally have with Islam but to say that somehow Hinduism is better than Islam is utterly delusional. Islam can be intellectually challenged by the likes of New Atheists but Hinduism doesn't even have a remote chance to intellectually challenge Islam.
Keep lying to yourself. Best of luck to you . If this makes you feel happy then be it. Just one thing inferiority complex is a sure shot recipe of disaster. Have a great life.
@@juhebhassan2617 Except for the Caste System & Sati Tradition - Can name something evil in the ancient Indian society? Also, Sati was prevalent only after 700 or 1500 CE i.e after Islamic invasions. Mostly in Rajputs - Defenders of our North-Western borders.
@@abhinav5534 look i know you are asking the question from a less-bigoted place than the original commentor whom i had to put down so i will answer you: I am not talking of ill practices of religion when i say "intellectually challenge",,what i mean is challenging the very core of a belief system,,its very existence. Like whether we even need religion,,what is its necessity,,would we better off without religion?
Peace✌
@@abhinav5534 also if u think i am some kind of fundamentalist look at the comment i have posted on the video( not the reply to this comment )
bhai har video m pshycedelics 🥰 lagta hai aap b maal fokte ho
This guy proves himself to be champion of obscrurantism
bring ejaz akram also. and maybe basit khoshul also