Ivory Jewelry: How to Identify & Examples Plus Lookalikes Celluloid, Lucite, Bone

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  • Опубликовано: 4 дек 2024

Комментарии • 148

  • @GabrealJahn
    @GabrealJahn 5 лет назад +54

    I get the idea that people want to get rid of animal products like ivory or tortoiseshell, but if it was pre-ban how are you honoring that animal by burning or discarding. I think the idea of selling back-and-forth amongst collectors is a great way to preserve the memory of that animal in a sense.

    • @PrincessCasserole
      @PrincessCasserole  5 лет назад +5

      Gabreal B I agree honestly. Same as with the artist work that went into it as well. But I respect people’s views as long as they respect mine.

    • @pueblodove
      @pueblodove 5 лет назад +9

      I bought pre ban scrap ivory for scrimshaw from a company that has a whole lot of documented pre-ban ivory, I bought scrap from the industry from before 1973, there was a lot of waist then, some of the scrap pieces I got had cookie cutter unicorns cut from them and the rest discarded. I carved tiny teardrops from them, and other tiny objects. Ivory is the most beautiful thing to carve..I never agree with mass produced items from the slaughter of innocent animals, however so many beautiful things can be made from the tusk after the animal has passed, its such a shame that they can't manage to regulate better....

    • @PrincessCasserole
      @PrincessCasserole  5 лет назад +6

      pueblodove that’s such a good point. It’s too bad people always have to go too far.

    • @barkingpawz
      @barkingpawz 10 месяцев назад

      I am wondering if I got ivory I bought a ton of stuff from goodwill auctions and I just can’t tell and want to know what kind of bone it is

    • @pickles9440
      @pickles9440 8 месяцев назад

      Some would argue that there is still a black market that will feed peoples desires, but i get your point, shame to trash it.

  • @pueblodove
    @pueblodove 5 лет назад +6

    You have a beautiful collection, 22:39, this pin is ivory. In most cases you can see the cross hatching as well as lines in ivory, but it depends on the direction the ivory is cut and what part of the tusk, those lines are not always present. With celluloid- French Ivory the lines go in one direction and continue over the side of the piece in the same direction, whereas the ivory will change with the angle of the cut. Also pink elephant ivory is highly illegal to own, or sell, which is from a smaller elephant from india, as well as whale tooth, walrus ivory, and rhinoceros horn. Mammoth ivory is from an extinct animal and legal. You can tell bone by the little black lines, it doesn't carve as well or scrimshaw. The vegetable ivory is called tagua nut, looks almost like ivory, takes color well and is a very nice substitute. I agree to preserve the beautiful antique carvings as well, for the love of the poor animal that died for it.

    • @PrincessCasserole
      @PrincessCasserole  5 лет назад +2

      pueblodove such great information. Thank you so much for your thoughtful and educational comment.

    • @pueblodove
      @pueblodove 5 лет назад

      @@PrincessCasserole your very welcome.

    • @kayw9274
      @kayw9274 4 года назад

      It is not illegal to own or possess ivory in the US, only selling it (in most cases).

  • @vickienders-draper8311
    @vickienders-draper8311 4 года назад +2

    What a beautiful purse. You are also just a beautiful real person.Thank you for being YOU.

  • @sarahtansey1650
    @sarahtansey1650 5 лет назад +12

    Very nice collection!!!! I say never destroy or melt 😣 Its our history !❤

  • @EvilDeadPriest
    @EvilDeadPriest 2 года назад +2

    Thank You for sharing your wealth of knowledge. The opportunity to learn is priceless.

  • @slwtgf
    @slwtgf 3 месяца назад

    16:01 that’s one exquisite and classy bracelet, actually! I’m stunned.

  • @sgac4670
    @sgac4670 5 лет назад +9

    Vegetable ivory is made from the seeds of certain palm trees. It's also called tagua nut and used to be used a lot for buttons. It's environmentally friendly because the seeds are gathered from wild rainforest trees without harming them.

    • @PrincessCasserole
      @PrincessCasserole  5 лет назад +2

      sgac that’s it. I’ve never to my knowledge seen it which is why I didn’t spend a lot of time on it. But I was rechearing tagua nut jewelry the other day and it didn’t really look like ivory to me.

    • @amygray4796
      @amygray4796 3 года назад +3

      @Princess Casserole - Celluloid (one of the common ivory substitute material's that you mention in this video) is sourced from the 'Cellulose' which is a natural by-product of Tagua Palm trees seeds (sometimes referred to as 'nuts')! The 'Tagua Jewellery' you say you don't know well/don't think looks like ivory is actually the Celluloid material you confidentially identify, multiple times, in the video...? 🤨

  • @kathyphillips9482
    @kathyphillips9482 5 лет назад +3

    Excellent video, Carla. Thanks for sharing your knowledge as well as the beautiful examples!

  • @slwtgf
    @slwtgf 3 месяца назад +1

    5:58 destroying any work of art is plumb dumb, and seems blasphemous. I realize ivory and animal cruelty is highly controversial, but that doesn’t mean it’s ok to destroy old/antique pieces! I’m glad you’ve got common sense, and the integrity to not resell any old pieces found today.

    • @PrincessCasserole
      @PrincessCasserole  3 месяца назад

      @@slwtgf I totally agree with you. I think it’s important to know how to identify and respect but not break the law by reselling.

  • @jennifergorman7723
    @jennifergorman7723 Год назад +1

    As I understand, the cross hatching you may see in ivory occurs when the striations in the ivory crosses over each other. I believe I picked this info up from Texas Gal. Let me know if I’m off base. Great collection!

  • @ronaldasilverberg9251
    @ronaldasilverberg9251 5 лет назад +12

    Good for you !!! If we all have a O tolerance for rudeness , I think a lot of it will be eliminated . Wouldn’t that be great ? ( when people realize being critical and rude is unpopular , Unaccepted , does not make them appear “ wise “ or intelligent, quite the contrary it’s just simply unkind . ) way to go ! Love your videos !🙋‍♀️😎❤️

    • @PrincessCasserole
      @PrincessCasserole  5 лет назад +1

      ronalda silverberg I totally agree. I don’t get a lot of it but some. Some are so rude they make me laugh.

  • @miask
    @miask Год назад

    Thank you! I have quite a lot of antique and vintage fine and fine costume jewelry I’ve inherited; among that is a carved necklace I think may be ivory. Now I have some idea how to determine. I agree with you about selling it. While I don’t know if I would wear it, I
    respect the animal as well
    as the craftsmanship.
    I have to tell you that celluloid purse is stunning!
    One last thing, about mistakenly buying ivory in a bundle or whatever, there is an old legal saying: Ignorance is no excuse of the law. It means just what you said. Many people have learned an expensive lesson. Thank you again!

  • @michellesantiago3030
    @michellesantiago3030 Год назад +1

    What a great video! Your collection is just beautiful! The last couple of pieces with the parallel lines you described are called French Ivory. It was made to look similar to ivory, but inexpensive to produce. It has quite a history, and is highly collectible. Early Napier pieces frequently have French Ivory beads. I have several in my collection.

  • @theresabrown9566
    @theresabrown9566 5 лет назад +3

    Thank you, very much. Bless you and yours.

  • @icatz
    @icatz 5 лет назад +2

    Excellent job, Carla. Thank you.

  • @dawncampion381
    @dawncampion381 5 лет назад +1

    Thanks so much for this video! I am new to jewelry reselling and am glad to be able to tell the difference. I always strive to stay on the right side of the law!:). Your pieces are beautiful, thanks for sharing!!

    • @PrincessCasserole
      @PrincessCasserole  5 лет назад

      Dawn Campion lol me too! That’s why I started researching it.

  • @sevenbells96
    @sevenbells96 5 лет назад +1

    Great tutorial the color variations between each jewelry can be seen clearly. The word Cross hatching when describing ivory is new to me. Thanks for keeping your subscribers informed. Great video and Great content.

  • @perlasprecious
    @perlasprecious 5 лет назад +2

    Love it when you do these type of videos, so much info. Learned so much, so many beautiful pieces of Ivory celluloid Lucite and bone,💜

  • @vampyvintage3111
    @vampyvintage3111 5 лет назад +1

    I love this video. Thank you so much for showing your beautiful collection. (I have a dragon necklace like yours.) And thank you for standing your ground regarding rude comments.

  • @petsandhearts
    @petsandhearts 5 лет назад +2

    finally do you know how long I was waiting for this video girl lol xoxo Geez Louise lol

  • @mermer9178
    @mermer9178 3 года назад +2

    The roses might be carved "meerschaum." It is a light porous stone. I've seen pipes with carved meerschaum that remind me a lot of your rose jewelry.

  • @lexihauer9857
    @lexihauer9857 3 года назад +1

    I just got some beads that were in a box in a grab-bag from goodwill today and there were some beads inside I’m unsure about. I thought they were stone but the more I look at them the more I’m not sure they are. They are heavy, cold to the touch and an off white/cream color. Some of them have visual texture almost like the rings of a tree when a piece of a branch has been cut diagonally and lines. They have speckles and one of the beads is chipped and it is a cleaner off white inside.

  • @ronaldasilverberg9251
    @ronaldasilverberg9251 5 лет назад +5

    Thank you for the very important info , we need to be able to identify what we see ! 👍👋👊🙌😘

    • @PrincessCasserole
      @PrincessCasserole  5 лет назад +1

      ronalda silverberg totally agree. And how can you without examples?

  • @shawnharris6985
    @shawnharris6985 4 года назад +1

    Great video and gorgeous pieces! The face necklace is so cool. I love that one, but I like unusual.

  • @zzdogger
    @zzdogger 2 года назад +1

    I like the idea of buying up ivory I find and hoarding it in order to remove it from circulation; plus the person selling it usually doesn't even know they're committing a crime, so I can keep them from running into potential issues.
    I bought two beaded necklaces at a thrift store yesterday that could be in a set with the scrimshaw one you have. They both have the same tic-tac-shaped threaded ivory clasp. It bums me out to wonder if they're antique or modern creations; judging by the precision/tools required to carve something so intricate I'm leaning towards the latter. If I end up doing a deep dive I'll try to report back with my findings for anyone curious.

    • @PrincessCasserole
      @PrincessCasserole  2 года назад +1

      I agree. That’s part of why I did this video, so people can tell the difference so they don’t unknowingly get themselves in trouble. I’ve gotten some not so nice comments but I think it’s important. And I hate that things get destroyed. I think the last time most ivory was popular was the 80s from what I’ve seen.

    • @zzdogger
      @zzdogger 2 года назад +1

      @@PrincessCasserole I did a little digging and found a few websites that sell mammoth ivory beads/clasps that look exactly like these! I'm goin to assume that's what they are, and if all someone did was desecrate some prehistoric remains to make these I'm a lot less bothered by them.

    • @PrincessCasserole
      @PrincessCasserole  2 года назад

      @@zzdogger there’s definitely mammoth ivory. Those are the ones that are often used in Alaska I believe

  • @wagnertheitalianflipper9047
    @wagnertheitalianflipper9047 Год назад

    Absolutely amazing video I'm learning a lot thank you.

  • @marycorley7662
    @marycorley7662 4 года назад

    Great video, you cleared up a lot of questions I had about identifying ivory, bone and celluloid

  • @tamarathorsen
    @tamarathorsen 2 года назад

    These are all so pretty!

  • @pueblodove
    @pueblodove 5 лет назад +1

    30:21, these pieces look like something by high end designer Carol Duplause who used both ivory and bone sometimes in the same piece, as well as mixed metals.

  • @JourneyofJewelry
    @JourneyofJewelry 4 года назад

    This is so very helpful! Thank you for creating the video.

  • @TheSparklyBeader87
    @TheSparklyBeader87 5 лет назад +1

    Carla, You have a beautiful collection and it probably has lovely memories with it. I agree with you 100%. In fact, I will not even wear the little ivory and coral in my collection because as an environmentalist and retired high school science teacher it seems improper to display it while the animals are in decline. Thank you for these educational videos, well done! 💖🌹💍💎

    • @PrincessCasserole
      @PrincessCasserole  5 лет назад +1

      Faith Robin Buchin I understand. It’s a difficult decision I think on if you can or can’t wear them out. I think I’ve worn them one time out. Coral is so beautiful and I’m hoping that they have and will find ways to regrow coral reefs. I honestly didn’t there was coral safe sun screens too. Conservation is very important to me as well. Globalization and our disposable society has been so detrimental to so many eco systems.

    • @TheSparklyBeader87
      @TheSparklyBeader87 5 лет назад

      @@PrincessCasserole When my grandmother passed away many years ago my father wanted to give me her real fur car length jacket, (as the oldest grandchild from the oldest child). I told him no because I would not wear it out anywhere. I could not clothe myself in the hide of an animal that was killed for decorative purposes. It's not like back in history when it was a necessity to use animal hides for clothing. We have alternatives now. I won't even wear the fake versions, for the fear of impropriety. 💖🌷💍💎

  • @judygarman7217
    @judygarman7217 5 лет назад +1

    Thank you for this video. It is very informative and you certainly have some beautiful pieces. Bit now a question...... ivory is illegal to buy n sell but as you inherited it, it's ok. But then will you be able to bequest it onto someone at your passing? And is items made from bone illegal as well?

    • @PrincessCasserole
      @PrincessCasserole  5 лет назад +1

      Judy Garman the bone is not illegal but I’ve heard some what you to inform the type of bone, which I don’t know how to identify (bovine etc). I’m not sure what will happen but hopefully I won’t die anytime soon to find out lol.

  • @cherylwhitney9900
    @cherylwhitney9900 5 лет назад

    Thanks for all the good information! Have a good day!

  • @Bobbo466
    @Bobbo466 5 лет назад

    Hi Carla love your channel. So informative! It helps me to be able to give better descriptions and be more knowledgable when I do my hauls or reselling, thank you!

  • @TraciParks
    @TraciParks 5 лет назад +1

    Incredible info! Thank you so much!

  • @KatsAlluringTreasures
    @KatsAlluringTreasures 3 года назад +1

    How have I never seen these other videos of yours? Lol. I love your unjarring videos but never see your info on them - so went to your play list and found these - also your info - I liked and following your Facebook and Instagram now too 😁 I started some jewelry unboxing just recently and still have a lot to learn about jewelry 😁

  • @karenkaloff3461
    @karenkaloff3461 2 года назад

    hello good morning carla this video luv it the purse you have is so beautiful bead works gorgeous little basket with celoid flowers I have one as well when you say cross hatching I very never heard of this till now what is it thanks for any help I'm watching your bakelite video next just found some bakelite bracelets in my loads of jewelry that I have happy thrifting

  • @lindaherrera8269
    @lindaherrera8269 5 лет назад +3

    Hi Carla love all your videos and your jewelry 👍

  • @jackirod9090
    @jackirod9090 5 лет назад

    Ty so much for this informational video. Very helpful 😊

  • @Gogrannygo55
    @Gogrannygo55 5 лет назад

    Lovely collection!!! That older bracelet is fantastic and the dragons are gorgeous. The faces are unique. I really learned a lot!!!! Thank you, I needed this. ❤💞❤

  • @elenawiesenthal484
    @elenawiesenthal484 5 лет назад +1

    I’m wondering if the Art Deco necklace with the red carved coral if the carved white beads might be white coral? I know coral has striations also... I’m not sure but it was a thought. Hard to tell without feeling the weight. It’s gorgeous.

    • @PrincessCasserole
      @PrincessCasserole  3 месяца назад

      @@elenawiesenthal484 I don’t think so, but it’s not a bad thought.

  • @thriftinluxury451
    @thriftinluxury451 3 года назад

    Thanks for sharing this video ❤️❤️🙏🏾

  • @michaeldougher8572
    @michaeldougher8572 5 лет назад +5

    You don't need to apologize the video simply about teaching people about the different materials. We all know they exist so if someone has a problem it's their problem.

  • @fuzzylop9164
    @fuzzylop9164 5 лет назад

    What stunning pieces. I would love to have any of the non ivory pieces. How wonderful you inherited those beautiful ivory pieces. Yes we must stop the ivory trade to save the animals.

  • @jjdjj5392
    @jjdjj5392 Год назад

    Very nice pieces

  • @MrTAT275
    @MrTAT275 5 лет назад +3

    The ivory with the faces is made of whale tooth ivory. Beautiful patina!

  • @pbb2877
    @pbb2877 19 дней назад

    I can be wrong but I think the round face beads are made from a certain nut which is also considered ivory. I came across this once but this is my speculation

  • @belinda4919
    @belinda4919 5 лет назад

    Great information Carla! TFS

  • @anusfoodlab2497
    @anusfoodlab2497 5 лет назад

    Beautiful video Carla!

  • @cathievalentine5698
    @cathievalentine5698 5 лет назад

    Thanks Carla, great info

  • @justoserv
    @justoserv 5 лет назад

    It’s all so beautiful

  • @divineangelic2727
    @divineangelic2727 3 года назад

    Hi is your ivory bracelet with Copenhagen

  • @lindasjewelrycollectionandmore
    @lindasjewelrycollectionandmore 5 лет назад

    Great video and exquisite jewelry

  • @viracocha8338
    @viracocha8338 4 года назад

    It seems that you love ivory very much... Just like I do😍😍

    • @PrincessCasserole
      @PrincessCasserole  4 года назад

      Vira cocha I just appreciate it. I won’t buy it new and don’t want it destroyed.

  • @beverleymaylin816
    @beverleymaylin816 4 года назад

    Hello mt darling u miss mt mum so much had her funeral this week your so lovly god bless beverley

  • @divineangelic2727
    @divineangelic2727 3 года назад

    Hi sorry I wrote wro Nguyen word. Is your ivory bracelet that has big flowers and open. In middle. for sale how much

    • @PrincessCasserole
      @PrincessCasserole  3 года назад

      Sorry I don’t sell ivory. It’s illegal in my state.

  • @edwardmahony8160
    @edwardmahony8160 5 лет назад

    Thank you very interesting video

  • @juanapimentel2394
    @juanapimentel2394 5 лет назад

    Thank you princess

  • @azuradawn9348
    @azuradawn9348 5 лет назад

    shrimp earrings.. i think thelma thrift talked about that style from the 70’s or 80’s... she has a ring like that if I do recall correctly....

  • @annedarr1894
    @annedarr1894 5 лет назад

    Shared to fb and thanks for the lesson

  • @lilguillotine
    @lilguillotine 4 года назад

    Wooly mammoth!?

  • @kathyprusak2762
    @kathyprusak2762 5 лет назад +3

    Education is not illegal yet 😜 TFS

  • @gladyslaureano9239
    @gladyslaureano9239 5 лет назад

    Great info

  • @hopeemmons2425
    @hopeemmons2425 10 месяцев назад

    Your unusual necklace is made of troll beads not sure if troll beads were ever made from ivory however.

  • @samanthasimental3788
    @samanthasimental3788 3 года назад

    Is ivory fragile?

  • @ronaldasilverberg9251
    @ronaldasilverberg9251 5 лет назад

    Interesting , have to watch this again !!! ( hope it’s not red ants 😬🤭🙄)

    • @PrincessCasserole
      @PrincessCasserole  5 лет назад

      ronalda silverberg lol thankfully we don’t have those up here. I was just sitting on the ground too long. Too much nature!

  • @thecelestialvoice
    @thecelestialvoice 3 года назад

    It would be better if you moved more slowly and allow the camera to capture the lines in the beads, even be still for a few seconds. I was getting dizzy.

  • @tanghingtung5897
    @tanghingtung5897 2 года назад

    18:55 Silver, CHINA

  • @luzcmx
    @luzcmx 5 лет назад

    New subscriber here, loving your videos. I’m not sure if you have made a video on how you clean and remove tarnish from jewelry. I was gifted some silver jewelry and have been looking on how to clean. Thank you for all your videos and all the info you share.

    • @PrincessCasserole
      @PrincessCasserole  5 лет назад +1

      LUZ CERVANTES hello! Welcome! I have not but honestly I just use the silver cloths. They’re gentle on your jewelry. I almost never use the liquid silver cleaners.

    • @luzcmx
      @luzcmx 5 лет назад

      Princess Casserole, thank you so much for replying. Is there any silver cloth that you recommend. So you don’t advise me to use liquid cleaner? Also, I have been literally watching your videos every chance I get. Especially at night when I put the kiddo to sleep 😊.

    • @PrincessCasserole
      @PrincessCasserole  5 лет назад

      LUZ CERVANTES they have some at Walmart. I just ordered some sunshine cloths from Amazon but haven’t used them yet. But they’re very easy to use. Sometimes a little tarnish in the crevices adds dimension to a piece and the silver cleaner will remove all tarnish.

  • @jill_fritchleyklusoczky4293
    @jill_fritchleyklusoczky4293 5 лет назад

    TFS! ❤️

  • @jjdjj5392
    @jjdjj5392 Год назад

    Scrimshaw is a dieing art. Very expensive.

  • @retrobebop61
    @retrobebop61 5 лет назад

    Great video! Thank you for the info! I am very interested in how to tell vintage Bakelite from plastic or celluloid. Could you please do a video on that? It would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! Lynne

    • @PrincessCasserole
      @PrincessCasserole  5 лет назад

      retrobebop61 I go through some of that in my Bakelite collection video. Bakelite will be heavier than celluloid and never hot pin test celluloid it’s flammable.

  • @ShawnaCostonPhD
    @ShawnaCostonPhD 2 года назад

    i love that BROOCH. YES. GIFT THAT TO ME ANYTIME.

  • @alexanderkatookwa777
    @alexanderkatookwa777 9 месяцев назад

    Do y0u buy ivory?

    • @PrincessCasserole
      @PrincessCasserole  9 месяцев назад

      I do not. It’s illegal to buy or sell in my state regardless of age.

  • @retrobebop61
    @retrobebop61 5 лет назад

    That’s a cool face necklace!

    • @PrincessCasserole
      @PrincessCasserole  5 лет назад

      retrobebop61 I love it. Still have no idea what it’s made out of lol

  • @jjdjj5392
    @jjdjj5392 Год назад

    Theres buffalo horn too. That is legal.

  • @maemurcillo9087
    @maemurcillo9087 7 месяцев назад

    I like ivory horn elephant where can buy this?

  • @pueblodove
    @pueblodove 5 лет назад

    also note that there was a time where they foolishly bleached ivory in some cases!

  • @divineangelic2727
    @divineangelic2727 3 года назад

    Hi princess you will be more lucky when you get your nails professionally m icured and nice color polish nothing too brass. Keep it peach or pink or French etc no crazy colors

  • @tanghingtung5897
    @tanghingtung5897 2 года назад

    27:45 laughing Buddha head beads

  • @christhompson4270
    @christhompson4270 3 года назад

    👍👍👍👏👏👏

  • @divineangelic2727
    @divineangelic2727 3 года назад

    Ivory is beautiful. It’s from an animal no big deal Just a way for rich to make money with save this and that !
    foundations etc. I think this thing with gAtors in Florida etc is nuts allowing those very dangerous reptiles wonder around ..

  • @SonjaLSmith
    @SonjaLSmith 5 лет назад

    How can Goodwill get by with selling these items

    • @PrincessCasserole
      @PrincessCasserole  5 лет назад +1

      Sonja Smith I honestly think they can’t tell the difference or don’t know it’s illegal. Also, selling fake designer purses and clothing items is illegal too. But not well enforced.

  • @beatricetf3045
    @beatricetf3045 Год назад

    moi Jeanne-Béatrice TF Black Junfemem Jeune atu 27ans Non morte je sui vien

  • @xxkittymeowxx8093
    @xxkittymeowxx8093 10 месяцев назад

    You were moving the stuff too fast, couldn't get a good look or closeup.

    • @PrincessCasserole
      @PrincessCasserole  10 месяцев назад

      Sorry. I need to do a follow up soon. I’ll try to close up a little more

  • @jjdjj5392
    @jjdjj5392 Год назад

    Wooly mammath? I didnt know they exist. I thought they are extinct? You must mean elephants. I think there are other large mammals that have ivory tusks as well where ivory comes from.

  • @samanthasimental3788
    @samanthasimental3788 3 года назад

    It makes me so angry to think those poor elephants died for our vanity. But you should definately save them. What good does it do to destroy it now. I have a teddy bear that I got at the thrift store made of real fur. I keep it and cherrish it because I know where it came from.

  • @divineangelic2727
    @divineangelic2727 3 года назад

    It’s bone jewelry valuable. Compared to ivory

  • @teedee3834
    @teedee3834 5 лет назад

    I personally could not have ivory in my home.

    • @PrincessCasserole
      @PrincessCasserole  5 лет назад

      Shawn Mulleady I respect that too. I understand why people feel that way.

  • @ninamarroqui5903
    @ninamarroqui5903 5 лет назад

    Never never buy ivory jewelry👿stupid people killing elephants💀is a disgrace 💩

  • @annetomasso1155
    @annetomasso1155 3 года назад

    Too much chit chat. You need to get to the point.

  • @2012sparow
    @2012sparow 3 года назад

    Too long winded