I’m a double Distinguished master and an old school reloader from the 60’s and always neck sized until I viewed your 2 classic videos. Made a lot of sense and my consistency and accuracy improved. So I’m recently getting into ELR shooting and looking for sub .5MOA groups while chasing lands. Since your previous advice worked very well I tried your seating procedure and now I’m at .28MOA average. Thanks for teaching this old dog new tricks...
I love this video!!!! Thanks you for putting this up.... I have been a handloader for 16 years and most of my loads are for hunting and have based most my lengths on Magazine fit and have gotten lucky a number of times... but I am now playing with a 338 RUM and it is a single shot follower and have been using the yellow box 300gr and trying the US 869.. (previous owner of gun swore by it.. long story for this gun).... I realy wanted to try and shoot this freedom seed launching tool out to 1 mile thinking I may not have the tools (competition seating die or the money 338 seeds are not cheap and freedom seed launch powder as well.. or easy to get in the current time) may put this one on the back burner for right now and stick to the smaller ones 260 Rem and 6.5 Grendel Thanks for this video
I realize that not everyone learns at the same rate or picks up on stuff as quickly as others, but coming from a %100 newbie (me), I'm surprised that there had to be a part 2 video. The first one explained everything really well. Thank you for your knowledge and videos, Erik.
As erosion increases freebore, your node stays in the zone because you went to the longest length within your accuracy node minus 1/1000th. This example helps understand and extend barrels life, chasing lands shortens barrel life. Fantastic video sir!!
Erik - Your first JAM video was brilliant! I wish I had known that information in 1979. Thank you for your patience in putting out this second JAM follow-up video. I hope it helped those who didn’t get it the first go around. Thank you so much for sharing your wealth of knowledge!!!
@@Ryan_ph1l1p when you find jam, measure both ways. From what I understand, comparators are different from each manufacturer. However, your comparator will be your measuring constant for you. Once you have that value don't seat beyond it until your accuracy node moves there.
I’ve been reloading since 1969. Been using this technique since. You name it I’ve owned and loaded for it. Your first video one of the best I’ve seen. It’s just so simple and self explanatory. I’m doing load development and precision rifle testing most days for a company just finished for the morning. Just find where the bullet is jammed into the lands or call it zero position. Everything is now one way backwards seating the bullet deeper. So it’s irrelevant what cartridge I’m testing and loading for I simply within seconds find that zero position - jam position then start twenty thou back and proceed with more as required
Wish I had this video 8 years ago when I started reloading my own freedom seeds!! Really appreciate your content and I just wanted to say from South Africa, thank you sir.
why would anyone dog this guy? This is logical. Too many trolls, critics, and arrogant people in our culture and that is a big problem for us as a whole.
Eric, thank you for what you share with us. I recently heard that people work to master their craft, whatever that may be, and once they’ve mastered it they often “mentor” others. Thanks again!
Wow, I have reloaded for 20+ years and never heard it put into this perspective. You do have me excited to go put this to the test. Thank you for sharing!
Eric. I recently took up reloading. I hold a degree in Chemical Engineering and I can tell you that your employment of the "scientific method" of experimentation is spot on for creating an optimized round for accuracy. Thanks!!
Finally! an explanation on tinkering with seating depth and dealing with mag length. Keep making stuff like this oh wise one...and absolutely want a "Small Groups Matter" shirt
Erik, I came across your videos during Covid, as I had more down time than normal, due to travel lockdowns, etc. and used RUclips and other online searches to improve my reloading knowledge. This is one of the best and most unique videos I have watched regarding seating depth. The trick about factory loads is also useful (or a shooter can buy your tuner). You are the first person I have watched in a handloading video, who references "jam" instead of referencing "touching the lands". It is a very logical and consistent way to find a load starting point and a very repeatable methods for any rifle/bullet combination. When the magazine is the limiting factor, instead of Jam length, then the handloader will need to use the Magazine length (seated a bit deeper than the Max magazine OAL, so that it will feed reliably), as the starting point for load development. Everything you wrote and discussed makes perfect sense. You are a great teacher and you really care about sharing your knowledge with shooters. This information really does help people avoid frustration, and it helps prevent mistakes or even dangerous situations for newer and inexperienced handloaders. I've watched 25 plus of your videos and also I agree with you regarding cleaning. Too many people shoot a very dirty barrel (almost abused). I never seen a dirty barrel, in a well maintained and quality rifle, which shot better than a clean or at least slightly dirty barrel. Plus, cleaning a barrel will help prevent rust/corrosion. Keep up the amazing effort and work. Thank you, Bryan
Everything you are saying sir makes perfect sense to me. I’m new to precision shooting and just learning. If People can’t understand what you are saying they might consider taking up a new hobby. Thanks for the great teaching insight.
Thank you!! As a new hand loader your info has helped me a ton!! I load precision gas guns and I follow your principles. Makes for common sense hand loading!! Much appreciated. Keep up the great work! Semper Fi
Erik, this is one of the best series of videos I have watched in reloading. I tried a number of different load development methods and this one makes the most sense and used it on a number of new tubes since. I pay for your Patreon, it has a number of great videos and is well worth it. Thank you for not "keeping" your knowledge and helping us who want to learn.
I've been reloading for a year or so and my results have been less than stellar. This kind of information helps me see things I'm doing wrong that I didn't even know I was doing wrong. Thanks.
Erik, I learned about this in the 70s when I was shooting NRA High Power Rifle competition reloading with an RCBS single stage press. I didn’t have a lot of money being in the Air Force. Love your explanations for the hard heads. For me, it gives me the new terms and reasons. In the past, I had to learn the hard way by doing and experimentation. You have made it easy for the new guys to understand. Great Work!
I understood what you meant after part one of your video. But thanks for making part 2. My hat's off to you guys that can shoot 0.1 or 0.2 at 100 yards consistently. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with everyone.
Thank you so much for spelling this out for us. It may seem simple to those who understand it right off the bat but it's taken some time for me to digest and get it all squared away. I greatly appreciate you taking the time to do these videos.
Great info. I appreciate the tip at the end about factory ammo. Getting all the reloading stuff is a big investment, but getting a few tools to reseat factory ammo has help me get a ton of performance out of factory ammo.
Erik, I stumbled upon one of your hand loading videos and was impressed, but I thought.... I recognize this guy. Then you mentioned Texas Barndominiums. AH HAH!!!! Demolition Ranch Headquarters! I had been impressed enough to go check out your Texas Barndominiums youtube channel then. But this channel blows me away! I've been loading for about 6 years. I have learned so much from your videos in just the past few days! I wish I lived closer. I'd love to take your reloading class! Thank you for these videos. Truly amazing stuff!!!!
Great information Erik. I've been precision shooting as a hobby for over 20 years. Measuring where the lands are has always left me feeling that I simply did not have the right equipment to do so, or, I was not physically able to operate my measuring tools correctly (calipers, micrometers, etc) and as a result was not able to achieve closely matching successive measurements. Your explanation of the lands as a "moving target" and the lands represented a range rather than a single data point makes perfect sense to me. I've been moving the seating depth in 0.003" increments, and have had some success at squeezing the accuracy out of my rifles. Your process is going to greatly simplify my load development. I just found your channel. I have subscribed and plan to watch everything you have uploaded to RUclips. Keep up the good work sir!
Absolutely! Been learning about how inconsistent factory ammunition effects on accuracy for past 3 minutes months testing many different brands and measuring OTB to sort into testing groups. Purchased some tools and will attempt to research more at the range.
It totally made sense the first time. You are looking for a small group node. So you start from jam and work back till you find it, that's your seating depth. Who cares what was in the middle (lands). Then as the barrel wears you test to see if it moved or not by shooting 3 thou less seating depth. Boom done, on to the next thing!
Just curious if you start off with jam measurement and go to remove your bullet from the rifle and it pulls the bullet out of the brass or makes it longer in the brass how do you know where to start off for measurements, do you size your brass before this test or leave it unsized? Thanks
@@BigDave423AAAO my father felt the same way. He would teach anyone anything he could. Always said when someone passes all the knowledge over their lifetime is lost unless you teach others to carry it forward. Miss him a lot.
@@LandandSeallc - That's also the way I am. Placing special emphasis on the "why". Who, what, how, when, where, can all vary in importance depending on the situation, but it's the "why" which ties them together. It allows people to truly understand things and learn, not just memorize statistics and/or trivia.
@@BigDave423AAAO I was fortunate enough to be taught first hand about many things in life. It has given me an edge over the years for sure. Knowledge is everything. Info is free and skill is earned. Just really hits home.
I struggled with your first video and writing off distance to the lands because I’ve had great success with the wheeler method. Glad you brought it up, as well as mentioning being limited by mag length in this video. That really cleared up the confusion I had around what you were saying as I felt it was a great starting point. I think every time you said who cares about the distance to the lands you just meant who cares about keeping track of it or maintaining that distance from the lands as it erodes. This video was excellent. Thanks for the info.
Watched this video, did a node test based my on my mags because I shoot a ar10. Found the sweet spot .025 off from max mag. Tightened my grouping from .600 to .400. Can't thank you enough.
Your videos are great. Keep em coming. Would be great to see some series based videos... Reloading Series: Component selection all the way to rounds on target, break em out so you have some time to share your insights and opinions. Pair that with a Rifle Series: Rifle, Caliber, and gear and why you shoot what you do, and how to improve. Information like that, in one place, by a shooter of your caliber (pun intended) would really help new or misinformed people who are interested in the sport but struggling to find a path toward improvement. I know I'd watch every one of em.
Another great video Erik. At 22:00 when you ask about 5 different factory ammos...I'm releasing a video today comparing 5 off the shelf with my hand loads and you'll see some interesting results. The basic outcome is EXACTLY what you are saying here! Folks, you don't chase the lands, you adjust for erosion in the barrel IF NEEDED after x100 number of rounds to make sure you are still grouping tight and within a good node as Erik demonstrated here. Also remember that the lands are not eroding "vertically", they are eroding in a tunnel fashion where the erosion is more pronounced at the start of the lands and GRADUALLY decreases (the erosion decreases is what I'm saying) as you move towards the muzzle. To Erik's point, how can you really measure "to the lands" after say 500 rounds? Really nice explanation here Erik.
@@cbsbass4142 exactly. You can only adjust for those lands so far, then it is time for a new barrel. But by then you're groups are probably so bad that you realize that.
I agree 1000% Erik seating depth will tune any load!! I've been loading for over 25 years. And this makes "chasing the lands crazy simple" 🤯👍Thank you! 🙏
I just want to say thank you! You helped me and a friend of mine. He has a old gun that his father has and could never get it to group. I had him watch you videos and now he is shooting awesome groups!
Erik you rock! I followed the doctors orders today and ignored the lands while I searched for bullet seating depth on my favorite powder charge. Guess what? I found a node that's got me shooting 5/16" groups at 100 yds of Berger 168 VLD. That's with a Remington .308 factory barrel. Hahaha!!
I tried reloading about 5 years ago and a lot of the information I found on the web was overwhelming. Ended up giving up on reloading after about 80 rounds. Saw your Common Sense Reloading video and the chasing the land series. Love the info and it is easy to understand. You made me excited to try reloading again. Your comment about changing the seating depth blew my mind. Thanks for everything!
I’m new to reloading and I’ve been struggling. Your videos just make logical sense and I’m going to apply this method and hopefully build a superb round for my rifle. Please make a powder tuning video. Superb video Thank you from the UK
Super job explaining,makes me excited to reload again.Thanks for your generous attitude and the gift of knowledge on this subject you have shared with us. Selflessness of one makes winners of us all.Well done!
Erik, thanks for making part 2 of this video. It was much clearer to me the second time around. I owe you an apology for the rough comment I left on the 1st video - sorry about that. I am a land chaser for sure, but I am near conversion.... What turned the light on for me was your statement that throat erosion and seating depth were not a 1 to 1 relationship. I have a new barrel, and only have 40 rounds through it. Before I ever put one through the tube, I made a dummy round to jam. Every time I have made loads, I check throat erosion and adjust the seating depth the same amount, thinking this was keeping things consistent. Looks like it just made me chase my tail in a faster circle. I've got a lot to get my head around and I will be watching more of your videos. Thanks, Brian.
I haven't even got into loading but will be like yesterday and already feel like I've learned an incredible amount just by watching your videos. You make a lot of sense. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with the world. Keep up the good work. Love you brother.
Just watched these two videos again, I'm so thankful you shared this! This has been the missing key to my puzzle for the last 29 years of why I could get great groups sometimes and horrible groups another. I tried it all, trying to make my rifles shoot and now understand where the problem has been since day one!! I have even sold rifles that probably shot just fine if I had known to do this last step of load development. It kind of makes me sick knowing how much in terms of components I have wasted over the years due to ignorance, but now thanks to Erik and a few others on RUclips I don't waste a thing!! Thank you so much for this much needed information!!
I am so glad you broke this down! The target is TRUTH!!!! It's so sad to see folks waist time and money based in what they read online about lan spacing. Even worst, is folks getting discouraged and confused. Lan chasing may work for some BUT please people don't get lost in the sauce, target tells thre truth everytime! This man speaks the truth!
So glad I got it during the first video. But I’m working 9mm brass and had the time to watch V2. Thank yoi for taking the time out of your busy life to share with us. You know my experience level and I am watching and learning as fast as I can. About two months away from loading 6.5, so I have time to learn more.
We shoot FTR and have been doing some of what you illustrated. However, love the part about .003" increments. Doing some more testing now tomorrow! Also loved the part about seating depth will tune any load. Fascinating. Thanks for doing this.
Thank you. So much info to soak up its awesome!!! I’m just starting in this so this information is so helpful and it’s right up my alley. I love simple and is turned Mud into Clear Water for me. Thank you again.
Thank you Eric, For me it has always been a combination of chasing speed and accuracy. You have convinced me to chase accuracy and simplify things, Thank you.
Erik Cortina bring it on; for the people that are open minded like me, we will learn something; For the ones that are not, their loss... I like your style of teaching; To me, about as simplified as it gets 👍🏻
Cannot wait to take my reloads and find the nodes in them. Made charts up, seated bullets .003" deeper, got 8 groups if 3 shots ready to go. Bring on some decent weather, excited to try out this common sense approach. Thx again Mr. Erik..
I had my smith run my reamer into my barrel cutoff. It serves as a shoulder bump comparator using the shoulder in my chamber as well as a starting point for where the bullet would stick. I used a fire formed and resized case, loaded a dummy round long and seated deeper until the loaded round could be pulled without sticking. That round became my max base to ojive measurement, all seating depth testing was done at a shorter base to ojive measurement. I know that I will never jam into the rifling as it will only move further away as the throat erodes.
I truly appreciate you, I've hand loaded magnum payload shotgun shells since Steel replaced Lead ....that said theres a ton of misinformation on brass loads and you above all in my 6 month venture have more common sense about the the categories of accuracy than ANYONE... I appreciate your time spent on the subject....
I get it, and I don't know squat about competition shooting but I try and find the most accurate hunting loads I can. Good info by someone that actually knows what he's talking about. Two thumbs up Erik you da man
Thank you for doing these videos and sharing the information. Getting it from someone who has "rubber meets the road" experience and proven performance is invaluable.
Hey Erik,! You certainly got me excited about reloading! I’ve been hesitant or more like scared to get into reloading, but after last hunting season, season of 2021, I see it as a necessity. I never again want to sweat about not being able to use a certain one of my rifles only because I couldn’t find the ammo. After watching a lot of your vids as well as other channels, but mainly yours! Lol, I feel confident now going into reloading! Most of all, after learning the info you’ve given us, I’m excited! Thank you for the information and time you’ve taken to educate us! God bless and continue to shoot straight!
Great stuff. Thank you. I thought you hit the nail on the head the first time. What I would like to know is: what neck tension do YOU shoot with? Do you use an expander after sizing?
A true Sportsman will always share what works and some tricks of the trade. It helps NO_ONE keeping all this "data" in their own head to keep secrets just to themselves. Helping the next generation and others, by sharing the knowledge learned through trial and error brings up the range of knowledge for the rest of us. THANK YOU Mr Cortina!
Leade Taper of the throat is the last section of the throat that transitions from no rifling (the Freebore) to full rifling (the Bore.) The beginning of rifling isn’t abrupt, it has a transition angle and length that varies with each barrel, thus different bullet ogives will seat differently as well according to their own angles.
I thought your 1st video explained things perfectly well.....anyhow. In your next vids, I would appreciate you explaining in some detail about how you FLS, which dies you use & have used etc. Thanks for sharing Eric. I've been reloading for years & am at the stage where I'm happy to go with what has been proven to work.
Erik, I am an older gentleman that was raised up around reloading all my life. It seems the information that was passed down to me was very incorrect or maybe they didn't want to share it with me. I am retired now and back in the reloading room trying all the good information you are giving us, I even bought a Bench source annealing machine because, I didn't like the one I had. I have a custom built 308 and the tolerances on the build us unbelievable. (Tight) The number one thing I had a problem with was case trimming, I have purchased a Henderson 3rd addition. I will see how that works out for me. I understand what you are saying about seating depth, Uncle claimed to be 10ths off the lanes and I would why I could shoot! LOL you have to laugh about it. Thanks Erik for sharing your knowledge. Happy shooting!
Whats the difference between using your neck tensioned jam test and using a Hornady seating depth gauge like you made on the lathe. Is picking touch vs jam as the starting length arbitrary. there's a lot of things I'd love to have a conversation about like how this affects velocity ES but to little time. Keep up the good work.
Just watched this video of yours. Also watched you interviewing Jack Neary. I've been finding nice loads with powder charge. With thus I can totally see how I can fine tune loads with seating depth. I have found that I have most fun finding a great tuned load than anything. Where I live about most I can shoot is 100-200 yds and is boring. That's why I like getting new bullets and testing. Though I may have found a place where I might be able to reach out to 400yds. Only been reloading for 2 yrs and have found this very informative. Thank you.
Thanks for explaning all that again i have experienced that too in my reloading and i am still learning alot but i have noticed some rifles shoot better close to factory oal compared to seating them closer to the rifling
Maybe I missed it in part 1, but I got it now. chasing the node.....not chasing the lands. Once you find the node and hopefully it’s .006 -.010 “ wide, you select the longest CBO, So as the throat erodes you stay in the sweet spot for more rounds. I do the same with powder charge, only I go in the middle of the node to account for powder temp variation.
New handloader here. Do we care more about SD/ES or group size when deciding on powder charge? Gut says accuracy is most important, as having a bullet fly .5MOA high or low causes more issues than velocity variations, but if the same accuracy can be attained with just seating depth then the lowest SD would be best...
I am going to join your ptreon, for once I found somebody that is explaining everything so clearly that I can got it right away.. Thanks for all you did to enlighten us. It’s helping a lot!
@@rickm1294 You want the velocity of your loads to be as close to each other as possible. Reason: With that they will have consistent drop and wind compensation at long range. If they are too different, the ballistics will differ too much shot to shot, and will not be accurate at long range. Even if they are a one hole group at 100, they will be all over the place at 600.
I enjoyed your first video and didn't find it confusing at all. I think a diagram of a barrel's throat would help explain the concept of "touching the lands is a range, not an exact measurement". It took me a while to figure this out when I first started chasing more precision in my handloads. A bullet may lightly touch the lands, but with a small amount of additional force it can move another .010" into the lands. If you change the force, you change the measurement. By doing a hard jam into the lands (using your neck tension to establish a maximum driving force) you establish a firm maximum OAL for your cartridges. You make a very good point that the throat changes as it erodes. It won't always be a perfect 1.5 degree leade that contacts the bullet in the same way as when it was new. Great video, I learned some interesting new stuff!
When you say you can tune for any load based on seating depth, does that mean that a deeper seated bullet equals higher case pressure? Kinda simulating a higher or lower powder charge?
The pressure change is negligible since the bullet accelerated forward immediately after ignition. The change in the distance to muzzle as a factor of time is what seating depth tunes. Basically the vibrations caused by ignition of a cartridge cause the barrel to flex and “whip” at a particular resonance. Altering the amount of ground that the bullet has to travel, to match a dwell point in the “whip” is what you are after. Hope that makes sense.
Thank you Erik! Teaching people gets more involved in the sport which makes the sport grow and eventually comes back to you. Devon Larratt did the same with arm wrestling. The sport was super small he taught people on RUclips shared all his knowledge and now Brian Shaw and Larry Wheels got involved. He was able to quit his job and become a fulltime arm wrestler because money came into the sport. I am just on powder development but already got my groups from 5 moa to sub-moa because of your videos. I'm so excited to move from power development to node developement because of this video.
I would say instead of chasing the lands you are chasing the accuracy. I just want to tell you how much your videos have helped my reloading skills for getting the accuracy I have been wanting to achieve. Also I think there should be a standard for a comparator gauge and it should be land diameter I make my own and we know that .308 is groove diameter and on 99 percent of precision barrels land diameter is. 300 and no chamfer on inside corner. Anyway I just thought I would throw that in there
Thank you very much. I appreciate your advice and your expertise. Both of these videos make total sense and answered my questions on lands. This information will definitely help me find where I should be loading for my rifle. Thank you again.
THIS!!! Especially for my hunting rifle where the "jump" is constrained to a minimum of .072" in order to fit the magazine. Then, seat tuning incrementally deeper potentially pushes my load to more than .100" jump. Ouch! No, I'm not chasing the lands, lol. I'm chasing a sub-MOA group! (still)
I have a faulty quality neck bushing die that would put the necks out of round .006 and never had a problem with accuracy compared to another die, so I'm not sold on concentricity,
F class shooter here for many years, ES to get load first then seating depth for accuracy And you are smart Erik i think you may have been the one who had the lowest ES rounds tested at the Canada worlds correct me if im wrong
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
I’m a double Distinguished master and an old school reloader from the 60’s and always neck sized until I viewed your 2 classic videos. Made a lot of sense and my consistency and accuracy improved. So I’m recently getting into ELR shooting and looking for sub .5MOA groups while chasing lands. Since your previous advice worked very well I tried your seating procedure and now I’m at .28MOA average. Thanks for teaching this old dog new tricks...
I'm glad it worked for you. :)
Jesus, im new into reloading, so seating depth really has that much impact? Glad i found this guy
@@skie6282 I hear that bro,me too!
@@skie6282 Wait till you see his tuner videos....
I love this video!!!! Thanks you for putting this up....
I have been a handloader for 16 years and most of my loads are for hunting and have based most my lengths on Magazine fit and have gotten lucky a number of times... but I am now playing with a 338 RUM and it is a single shot follower and have been using the yellow box 300gr and trying the US 869.. (previous owner of gun swore by it.. long story for this gun).... I realy wanted to try and shoot this freedom seed launching tool out to 1 mile thinking I may not have the tools (competition seating die or the money 338 seeds are not cheap and freedom seed launch powder as well.. or easy to get in the current time) may put this one on the back burner for right now and stick to the smaller ones 260 Rem and 6.5 Grendel
Thanks for this video
I realize that not everyone learns at the same rate or picks up on stuff as quickly as others, but coming from a %100 newbie (me), I'm surprised that there had to be a part 2 video. The first one explained everything really well. Thank you for your knowledge and videos, Erik.
Right with you
Completely agree. I think this is where folks get lost in semantics.
As erosion increases freebore, your node stays in the zone because you went to the longest length within your accuracy node minus 1/1000th. This example helps understand and extend barrels life, chasing lands shortens barrel life. Fantastic video sir!!
Erik -
Your first JAM video was brilliant! I wish I had known that information in 1979. Thank you for your patience in putting out this second JAM follow-up video. I hope it helped those who didn’t get it the first go around. Thank you so much for sharing your wealth of knowledge!!!
I did exactly what you taught in part 1. Worked perfectly! I will never go back to my old way.
Right, he explained it wonderfully. I can’t wait to try at the range.
Do you measure to bullet tip or ogive when seating with this method?
@@Ryan_ph1l1p when you find jam, measure both ways. From what I understand, comparators are different from each manufacturer. However, your comparator will be your measuring constant for you. Once you have that value don't seat beyond it until your accuracy node moves there.
@@Ryan_ph1l1p Ogive is what meets the lands my friend, not the bullet tip.
That means you’re teachable, a lot are not.
Thank you for your time and experience. Thank you for being patient for those of us who want to learn more.
I’ve been reloading since 1969. Been using this technique since. You name it I’ve owned and loaded for it. Your first video one of the best I’ve seen. It’s just so simple and self explanatory. I’m doing load development and precision rifle testing most days for a company just finished for the morning. Just find where the bullet is jammed into the lands or call it zero position. Everything is now one way backwards seating the bullet deeper. So it’s irrelevant what cartridge I’m testing and loading for I simply within seconds find that zero position - jam position then start twenty thou back and proceed with more as required
so the only variable that change is the seating depth? Powder charge stay constant?
Wish I had this video 8 years ago when I started reloading my own freedom seeds!! Really appreciate your content and I just wanted to say from South Africa, thank you sir.
why would anyone dog this guy? This is logical. Too many trolls, critics, and arrogant people in our culture and that is a big problem for us as a whole.
Eric, thank you for what you share with us. I recently heard that people work to master their craft, whatever that may be, and once they’ve mastered it they often “mentor” others. Thanks again!
Wow, I have reloaded for 20+ years and never heard it put into this perspective. You do have me excited to go put this to the test. Thank you for sharing!
Eric. I recently took up reloading. I hold a degree in Chemical Engineering and I can tell you that your employment of the "scientific method" of experimentation is spot on for creating an optimized round for accuracy. Thanks!!
Yup, people with scientific backgrounds easily understand what he's saying. This aint rocket science, but it is science based.
@@kevinh4631 I don't think you have to be an engineer of any kind to understand what he's saying. 😊
Thanks Erik, your info is a real asset to me, I'm 74 , been reloading since in my 20s, learning more from you than ever
Finally! an explanation on tinkering with seating depth and dealing with mag length. Keep making stuff like this oh wise one...and absolutely want a "Small Groups Matter" shirt
Erik, I came across your videos during Covid, as I had more down time than normal, due to travel lockdowns, etc. and used RUclips and other online searches to improve my reloading knowledge. This is one of the best and most unique videos I have watched regarding seating depth. The trick about factory loads is also useful (or a shooter can buy your tuner). You are the first person I have watched in a handloading video, who references "jam" instead of referencing "touching the lands". It is a very logical and consistent way to find a load starting point and a very repeatable methods for any rifle/bullet combination. When the magazine is the limiting factor, instead of Jam length, then the handloader will need to use the Magazine length (seated a bit deeper than the Max magazine OAL, so that it will feed reliably), as the starting point for load development. Everything you wrote and discussed makes perfect sense. You are a great teacher and you really care about sharing your knowledge with shooters. This information really does help people avoid frustration, and it helps prevent mistakes or even dangerous situations for newer and inexperienced handloaders. I've watched 25 plus of your videos and also I agree with you regarding cleaning. Too many people shoot a very dirty barrel (almost abused). I never seen a dirty barrel, in a well maintained and quality rifle, which shot better than a clean or at least slightly dirty barrel. Plus, cleaning a barrel will help prevent rust/corrosion. Keep up the amazing effort and work. Thank you, Bryan
Everything you are saying sir makes perfect sense to me. I’m new to precision shooting and just learning. If People can’t understand what you are saying they might consider taking up a new hobby. Thanks for the great teaching insight.
Thank you!! As a new hand loader your info has helped me a ton!! I load precision gas guns and I follow your principles. Makes for common sense hand loading!! Much appreciated. Keep up the great work!
Semper Fi
Erik, this is one of the best series of videos I have watched in reloading. I tried a number of different load development methods and this one makes the most sense and used it on a number of new tubes since. I pay for your Patreon, it has a number of great videos and is well worth it. Thank you for not "keeping" your knowledge and helping us who want to learn.
I've been reloading for a year or so and my results have been less than stellar. This kind of information helps me see things I'm doing wrong that I didn't even know I was doing wrong. Thanks.
Been reloading 40+ years. These two videos are pure gold,makes this subject very clear,and simple.Thankyou..
Erik,
I learned about this in the 70s when I was shooting NRA High Power Rifle competition reloading with an RCBS single stage press. I didn’t have a lot of money being in the Air Force. Love your explanations for the hard heads. For me, it gives me the new terms and reasons. In the past, I had to learn the hard way by doing and experimentation. You have made it easy for the new guys to understand. Great Work!
I understood what you meant after part one of your video. But thanks for making part 2. My hat's off to you guys that can shoot 0.1 or 0.2 at 100 yards consistently. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with everyone.
Thank you Erik for taking the time to make these videos. They are a big help and I look forward to more
Thank you so much for spelling this out for us. It may seem simple to those who understand it right off the bat but it's taken some time for me to digest and get it all squared away. I greatly appreciate you taking the time to do these videos.
probably one of the best videos on reloading for precision
Great info. I appreciate the tip at the end about factory ammo. Getting all the reloading stuff is a big investment, but getting a few tools to reseat factory ammo has help me get a ton of performance out of factory ammo.
Erik, I stumbled upon one of your hand loading videos and was impressed, but I thought.... I recognize this guy. Then you mentioned Texas Barndominiums. AH HAH!!!! Demolition Ranch Headquarters! I had been impressed enough to go check out your Texas Barndominiums youtube channel then. But this channel blows me away! I've been loading for about 6 years. I have learned so much from your videos in just the past few days! I wish I lived closer. I'd love to take your reloading class! Thank you for these videos. Truly amazing stuff!!!!
Thank you.
Is there a reloading class?
Great information Erik. I've been precision shooting as a hobby for over 20 years. Measuring where the lands are has always left me feeling that I simply did not have the right equipment to do so, or, I was not physically able to operate my measuring tools correctly (calipers, micrometers, etc) and as a result was not able to achieve closely matching successive measurements. Your explanation of the lands as a "moving target" and the lands represented a range rather than a single data point makes perfect sense to me. I've been moving the seating depth in 0.003" increments, and have had some success at squeezing the accuracy out of my rifles. Your process is going to greatly simplify my load development. I just found your channel. I have subscribed and plan to watch everything you have uploaded to RUclips. Keep up the good work sir!
Absolutely!
Been learning about how inconsistent factory ammunition effects on accuracy for past 3 minutes months testing many different brands and measuring OTB to sort into testing groups. Purchased some tools and will attempt to research more at the range.
It totally made sense the first time. You are looking for a small group node. So you start from jam and work back till you find it, that's your seating depth. Who cares what was in the middle (lands). Then as the barrel wears you test to see if it moved or not by shooting 3 thou less seating depth. Boom done, on to the next thing!
Just curious if you start off with jam measurement and go to remove your bullet from the rifle and it pulls the bullet out of the brass or makes it longer in the brass how do you know where to start off for measurements, do you size your brass before this test or leave it unsized?
Thanks
Thank you Eric, you are an absolute wealth of knowledge and a true gentleman for sharing that hard earned experience with us.
Anyone who withholds great information like this is a disgrace to the discipline. Information is free. Skill is earned. Keep making videos Erik
I once asked my martial arts instructor why he didn't charge as much as other instructors/dojos, he told me... "Knowledge not shared is wasted." 😊
@@BigDave423AAAO my father felt the same way. He would teach anyone anything he could. Always said when someone passes all the knowledge over their lifetime is lost unless you teach others to carry it forward. Miss him a lot.
@@LandandSeallc - That's also the way I am. Placing special emphasis on the "why". Who, what, how, when, where, can all vary in importance depending on the situation, but it's the "why" which ties them together. It allows people to truly understand things and learn, not just memorize statistics and/or trivia.
@@BigDave423AAAO I was fortunate enough to be taught first hand about many things in life. It has given me an edge over the years for sure. Knowledge is everything. Info is free and skill is earned. Just really hits home.
I struggled with your first video and writing off distance to the lands because I’ve had great success with the wheeler method. Glad you brought it up, as well as mentioning being limited by mag length in this video. That really cleared up the confusion I had around what you were saying as I felt it was a great starting point. I think every time you said who cares about the distance to the lands you just meant who cares about keeping track of it or maintaining that distance from the lands as it erodes. This video was excellent. Thanks for the info.
Love your work Erik. Makes perfect sense and I love your no BS delivery of the facts.
Good Health Mate👍👊✌️
Watched this video, did a node test based my on my mags because I shoot a ar10. Found the sweet spot .025 off from max mag. Tightened my grouping from .600 to .400. Can't thank you enough.
Your videos are great. Keep em coming. Would be great to see some series based videos... Reloading Series: Component selection all the way to rounds on target, break em out so you have some time to share your insights and opinions. Pair that with a Rifle Series: Rifle, Caliber, and gear and why you shoot what you do, and how to improve. Information like that, in one place, by a shooter of your caliber (pun intended) would really help new or misinformed people who are interested in the sport but struggling to find a path toward improvement. I know I'd watch every one of em.
Another great video Erik. At 22:00 when you ask about 5 different factory ammos...I'm releasing a video today comparing 5 off the shelf with my hand loads and you'll see some interesting results. The basic outcome is EXACTLY what you are saying here! Folks, you don't chase the lands, you adjust for erosion in the barrel IF NEEDED after x100 number of rounds to make sure you are still grouping tight and within a good node as Erik demonstrated here. Also remember that the lands are not eroding "vertically", they are eroding in a tunnel fashion where the erosion is more pronounced at the start of the lands and GRADUALLY decreases (the erosion decreases is what I'm saying) as you move towards the muzzle. To Erik's point, how can you really measure "to the lands" after say 500 rounds? Really nice explanation here Erik.
Eventually it seems you'd run out of bullet, but by then it's time for a barrel.
@@cbsbass4142 exactly. You can only adjust for those lands so far, then it is time for a new barrel. But by then you're groups are probably so bad that you realize that.
I agree 1000% Erik seating depth will tune any load!! I've been loading for over 25 years. And this makes "chasing the lands crazy simple" 🤯👍Thank you! 🙏
I just want to say thank you! You helped me and a friend of mine. He has a old gun that his father has and could never get it to group. I had him watch you videos and now he is shooting awesome groups!
💪
Erik you rock! I followed the doctors orders today and ignored the lands while I searched for bullet seating depth on my favorite powder charge. Guess what? I found a node that's got me shooting 5/16" groups at 100 yds of Berger 168 VLD. That's with a Remington .308 factory barrel. Hahaha!!
I tried reloading about 5 years ago and a lot of the information I found on the web was overwhelming. Ended up giving up on reloading after about 80 rounds.
Saw your Common Sense Reloading video and the chasing the land series. Love the info and it is easy to understand. You made me excited to try reloading again.
Your comment about changing the seating depth blew my mind.
Thanks for everything!
I’m new to reloading and I’ve been struggling. Your videos just make logical sense and I’m going to apply this method and hopefully build a superb round for my rifle.
Please make a powder tuning video.
Superb video Thank you from the UK
Super job explaining,makes me excited to reload again.Thanks for your generous attitude and the gift of knowledge on this subject you have shared with us. Selflessness of one makes winners of us all.Well done!
Finally! Someone that makes sense on this subject. Thanks bro
Put me on the list for a SGM tee. 2XL please 😉🤜🏼🤛🏼
Erik, thanks for making part 2 of this video. It was much clearer to me the second time around. I owe you an apology for the rough comment I left on the 1st video - sorry about that. I am a land chaser for sure, but I am near conversion.... What turned the light on for me was your statement that throat erosion and seating depth were not a 1 to 1 relationship. I have a new barrel, and only have 40 rounds through it. Before I ever put one through the tube, I made a dummy round to jam. Every time I have made loads, I check throat erosion and adjust the seating depth the same amount, thinking this was keeping things consistent. Looks like it just made me chase my tail in a faster circle. I've got a lot to get my head around and I will be watching more of your videos. Thanks, Brian.
I'm just getting into reloading and I've watched way too many RUclips vids. He gets to the point with no BS.
WOW!!! I have been harbouring these questions for a couple years now and you cleared it right up. So awesome.
What a wealth of usable knowledge. I'm just getting into precision loading and this helps with understanding it so much. Thank you
I haven't even got into loading but will be like yesterday and already feel like I've learned an incredible amount just by watching your videos. You make a lot of sense. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with the world. Keep up the good work. Love you brother.
This is a real eye opener. Thank you very much for sharing this information!
Just watched these two videos again, I'm so thankful you shared this! This has been the missing key to my puzzle for the last 29 years of why I could get great groups sometimes and horrible groups another. I tried it all, trying to make my rifles shoot and now understand where the problem has been since day one!! I have even sold rifles that probably shot just fine if I had known to do this last step of load development. It kind of makes me sick knowing how much in terms of components I have wasted over the years due to ignorance, but now thanks to Erik and a few others on RUclips I don't waste a thing!! Thank you so much for this much needed information!!
I am so glad you broke this down! The target is TRUTH!!!! It's so sad to see folks waist time and money based in what they read online about lan spacing. Even worst, is folks getting discouraged and confused. Lan chasing may work for some BUT please people don't get lost in the sauce, target tells thre truth everytime!
This man speaks the truth!
Thank you so much for these 2 videos! So clear and logic explanations!
The lands? "I don't know and, I don't care!"
You're awesome!
This helped me a ton!!!! I'd love it if you would go over your load development process. Thanks again!
So glad I got it during the first video. But I’m working 9mm brass and had the time to watch V2. Thank yoi for taking the time out of your busy life to share with us. You know my experience level and I am watching and learning as fast as I can. About two months away from loading 6.5, so I have time to learn more.
We shoot FTR and have been doing some of what you illustrated. However, love the part about .003" increments. Doing some more testing now tomorrow! Also loved the part about seating depth will tune any load. Fascinating. Thanks for doing this.
Your videos on not chasing the lands makes a lot of sense. Thank you for sharing your information and keep up the great work
Definitely would buy a “Small Groups Matter” shirt!
same here!
No. sounds like something the Covid police would say.
Mean radius and large composite group size matters more.
Thank you. So much info to soak up its awesome!!! I’m just starting in this so this information is so helpful and it’s right up my alley. I love simple and is turned Mud into Clear Water for me. Thank you again.
Thank you Eric, For me it has always been a combination of chasing speed and accuracy. You have convinced me to chase accuracy and simplify things, Thank you.
Eric, Figured out the nods , and thanks so much for passing it all on. Sharing is a gift. Doug
I’d love to get a video about your thoughts on finding a powder charge. Do you shoot ladder tests? Is it all chronographed?
The Ogive
I’ll cover that soon.
But I will warn you, people will lose their ever loving $hit if I make a video because it goes against what everyone has leaned to this point. 😬
@@ErikCortina Do Tell. waiting waiting waiting.
Erik Cortina bring it on; for the people that are open minded like me, we will learn something; For the ones that are not, their loss... I like your style of teaching; To me, about as simplified as it gets 👍🏻
@@ErikCortina Erik can we have a little hint?🙏
Fantastic explanation of no B.S. reloading. Thank you for your honesty, integrity, and sincerity...love you man.....
Cannot wait to take my reloads and find the nodes in them. Made charts up, seated bullets .003" deeper, got 8 groups if 3 shots ready to go. Bring on some decent weather, excited to try out this common sense approach. Thx again Mr. Erik..
I wish someone had told me this 10 years ago. Thanks Erik!
I had my smith run my reamer into my barrel cutoff. It serves as a shoulder bump comparator using the shoulder in my chamber as well as a starting point for where the bullet would stick. I used a fire formed and resized case, loaded a dummy round long and seated deeper until the loaded round could be pulled without sticking. That round became my max base to ojive measurement, all seating depth testing was done at a shorter base to ojive measurement. I know that I will never jam into the rifling as it will only move further away as the throat erodes.
Just as informative as Part 1
Great refresher course.
I truly appreciate you, I've hand loaded magnum payload shotgun shells since Steel replaced Lead ....that said theres a ton of misinformation on brass loads and you above all in my 6 month venture have more common sense about the the categories of accuracy than ANYONE...
I appreciate your time spent on the subject....
Great follow-up señior Cortina. And I await the Small Groups matter Tshirt!!!
Small groups is something the covid police would say
Thanks for being si thorough, i had questions i didn't know how to ask but you covered it all.
I just got into reloading, and I can’t wait to try out all these techniques I’m learning. Keep up the great work!
I get it, and I don't know squat about competition shooting but I try and find the most accurate hunting loads I can. Good info by someone that actually knows what he's talking about. Two thumbs up Erik you da man
New long range shooter, have been chasing the lands. Thank you for saving my sanity and $$. Great first vid, sorry you had to make another.
Thank you for doing these videos and sharing the information. Getting it from someone who has "rubber meets the road" experience and proven performance is invaluable.
Awesome videos man! You explained it really well. Even in part 1 it was good!
Hey Erik,! You certainly got me excited about reloading! I’ve been hesitant or more like scared to get into reloading, but after last hunting season, season of 2021, I see it as a necessity. I never again want to sweat about not being able to use a certain one of my rifles only because I couldn’t find the ammo. After watching a lot of your vids as well as other channels, but mainly yours! Lol, I feel confident now going into reloading! Most of all, after learning the info you’ve given us, I’m excited! Thank you for the information and time you’ve taken to educate us! God bless and continue to shoot straight!
Great stuff. Thank you. I thought you hit the nail on the head the first time.
What I would like to know is: what neck tension do YOU shoot with? Do you use an expander after sizing?
YES PLEASE?
A true Sportsman will always share what works and some tricks of the trade. It helps NO_ONE keeping all this "data" in their own head to keep secrets just to themselves. Helping the next generation and others, by sharing the knowledge learned through trial and error brings up the range of knowledge for the rest of us. THANK YOU Mr Cortina!
Erik.. how do you choose your load development seating depth? What seating depth do you start with when you first start load developing?
YES PLEASE???
@@85ZERO17 He said JAM - 20k
Leade Taper of the throat is the last section of the throat that transitions from no rifling (the Freebore) to full rifling (the Bore.) The beginning of rifling isn’t abrupt, it has a transition angle and length that varies with each barrel, thus different bullet ogives will seat differently as well according to their own angles.
I thought your 1st video explained things perfectly well.....anyhow.
In your next vids, I would appreciate you explaining in some detail about how you FLS, which dies you use & have used etc.
Thanks for sharing Eric. I've been reloading for years & am at the stage where I'm happy to go with what has been proven to work.
Erik, I am an older gentleman that was raised up around reloading all my life. It seems the information that was passed down to me was very incorrect or maybe they didn't want to share it with me. I am retired now and back in the reloading room trying all the good information you are giving us, I even bought a Bench source annealing machine because, I didn't like the one I had. I have a custom built 308 and the tolerances on the build us unbelievable. (Tight) The number one thing I had a problem with was case trimming, I have purchased a Henderson 3rd addition. I will see how that works out for me. I understand what you are saying about seating depth, Uncle claimed to be 10ths off the lanes and I would why I could shoot! LOL you have to laugh about it. Thanks Erik for sharing your knowledge. Happy shooting!
Whats the difference between using your neck tensioned jam test and using a Hornady seating depth gauge like you made on the lathe. Is picking touch vs jam as the starting length arbitrary. there's a lot of things I'd love to have a conversation about like how this affects velocity ES but to little time. Keep up the good work.
Just watched this video of yours. Also watched you interviewing Jack Neary. I've been finding nice loads with powder charge. With thus I can totally see how I can fine tune loads with seating depth. I have found that I have most fun finding a great tuned load than anything. Where I live about most I can shoot is 100-200 yds and is boring. That's why I like getting new bullets and testing. Though I may have found a place where I might be able to reach out to 400yds. Only been reloading for 2 yrs and have found this very informative. Thank you.
I’m literally dizzy from all the common sense! Haven’t heard any for quite awhile. Thanks for the video 👍🏻
Thanks for explaning all that again i have experienced that too in my reloading and i am still learning alot but i have noticed some rifles shoot better close to factory oal compared to seating them closer to the rifling
Maybe I missed it in part 1, but I got it now. chasing the node.....not chasing the lands. Once you find the node and hopefully it’s .006 -.010 “ wide, you select the longest CBO, So as the throat erodes you stay in the sweet spot for more rounds. I do the same with powder charge, only I go in the middle of the node to account for powder temp variation.
New handloader here. Do we care more about SD/ES or group size when deciding on powder charge? Gut says accuracy is most important, as having a bullet fly .5MOA high or low causes more issues than velocity variations, but if the same accuracy can be attained with just seating depth then the lowest SD would be best...
I am going to join your ptreon, for once I found somebody that is explaining everything so clearly that I can got it right away.. Thanks for all you did to enlighten us. It’s helping a lot!
great work, now do the powder tuning vid :-)
This is what I'm waiting for too!!!!!
Powder tuning is simple. Shoot over a chrono and find the smallest ES, thats it tune with seating depth
What do you mean by the smallest ES?
@@rickm1294 Extreme spread. Highest velocity minus lowest velocity
@@rickm1294 You want the velocity of your loads to be as close to each other as possible. Reason: With that they will have consistent drop and wind compensation at long range. If they are too different, the ballistics will differ too much shot to shot, and will not be accurate at long range. Even if they are a one hole group at 100, they will be all over the place at 600.
I enjoyed your first video and didn't find it confusing at all. I think a diagram of a barrel's throat would help explain the concept of "touching the lands is a range, not an exact measurement". It took me a while to figure this out when I first started chasing more precision in my handloads. A bullet may lightly touch the lands, but with a small amount of additional force it can move another .010" into the lands. If you change the force, you change the measurement. By doing a hard jam into the lands (using your neck tension to establish a maximum driving force) you establish a firm maximum OAL for your cartridges. You make a very good point that the throat changes as it erodes. It won't always be a perfect 1.5 degree leade that contacts the bullet in the same way as when it was new. Great video, I learned some interesting new stuff!
I’m still laughing about the “new shirt idea”. Thanks for sharing though. Simple enough. Mind blown!
so excited to try this!! thanks for taking the time to make these last 2 videos!!!
When you say you can tune for any load based on seating depth, does that mean that a deeper seated bullet equals higher case pressure? Kinda simulating a higher or lower powder charge?
The pressure change is negligible since the bullet accelerated forward immediately after ignition. The change in the distance to muzzle as a factor of time is what seating depth tunes. Basically the vibrations caused by ignition of a cartridge cause the barrel to flex and “whip” at a particular resonance. Altering the amount of ground that the bullet has to travel, to match a dwell point in the “whip” is what you are after. Hope that makes sense.
@@christopherfreeman3095 oooohhhhhhhhh
@@christopherfreeman3095 you helped this wholleee video click for me!
Thank you Erik! Teaching people gets more involved in the sport which makes the sport grow and eventually comes back to you. Devon Larratt did the same with arm wrestling. The sport was super small he taught people on RUclips shared all his knowledge and now Brian Shaw and Larry Wheels got involved. He was able to quit his job and become a fulltime arm wrestler because money came into the sport. I am just on powder development but already got my groups from 5 moa to sub-moa because of your videos. I'm so excited to move from power development to node developement because of this video.
I would say instead of chasing the lands you are chasing the accuracy. I just want to tell you how much your videos have helped my reloading skills for getting the accuracy I have been wanting to achieve. Also I think there should be a standard for a comparator gauge and it should be land diameter I make my own and we know that .308 is groove diameter and on 99 percent of precision barrels land diameter is. 300 and no chamfer on inside corner. Anyway I just thought I would throw that in there
I make my own too. 😁
Thank you very much. I appreciate your advice and your expertise. Both of these videos make total sense and answered my questions on lands. This information will definitely help me find where I should be loading for my rifle.
Thank you again.
THIS!!! Especially for my hunting rifle where the "jump" is constrained to a minimum of .072" in order to fit the magazine. Then, seat tuning incrementally deeper potentially pushes my load to more than .100" jump. Ouch! No, I'm not chasing the lands, lol. I'm chasing a sub-MOA group! (still)
Great video!!!! Anxious to try it. Made perfect sense. Thank you!
I would like to see a video on bullet runout and the factors that cause it and the fixes.
I have a faulty quality neck bushing die that would put the necks out of round .006 and never had a problem with accuracy compared to another die, so I'm not sold on concentricity,
My shooting life has got so much better sense I put my Neck die on the shelf and quit worrying about my lands. Thanks for the videos.
F class shooter here for many years, ES to get load first then seating depth for accuracy
And you are smart Erik i think you may have been the one who had the lowest ES rounds tested at the Canada worlds correct me if im wrong
You are correct. SD of 0 :)