Dr. Anderson's mention of fundamentalism being a way for a dysregulated nervous system to cope is a very interesting one and I have to agree. I have known individuals extremely involved in their religions that seem to follow many of the patterns discussed in this podcast. I've contemplated their ideas and behaviors before, so this sort of corroborates with my findings. This idea can be also be expanded outside of religion to other arenas where we see people taking on ideologies or sets of beliefs to cope with life and avoid having to be introspective and decide what is right for them as an individual. It really does serve the purpose of attempting to feel "safe" need to distract themselves from the Human Condition.
As a psychology graduate and a conservative Christian (Anglo-Catholic), I want to say thanks for making this video. I grew up fundamental baptist. And unless you have experienced the daily shame and humiliation a fundamentalist church puts you through, it is easy to criticize us as just not trusting God. I still believe all the Biblical doctrines such as hell and the virgin birth. But being in a church where the pastor literally screams at you, mentions you by name from the pulpit because he is mad at you, mocks non-Baptist, tells you that God will kill or torture you on earth if you wear pants as a woman or listen to rock music often all while these pastors are committing adultery, misusing the finances, and even at times committing serious sexual crimes, leaves legitimate mental trauma. The last time I stepped in a Baptist church I felt like I was going to pass out because my body went into a real fight or flight mode. I've been in these churches and the trauma is very real and needs to be addressed with legitimate psychotherapy. Does that mean psychotherapy is always perfect? No. But as we Christians use it more and more, I truly believe we can refine it to be more Christ like, just as we have over the centuries with many physical sciences.
Gosh dang I'm sorry ma'am. I feel for ya. Such fundamentalism, legalism, the mindset like those of the Pharisees, and pitiful politics are the main reasons why I'm hesitant with Orthodoxy and Catholicism. It just seems like a bunch of bitter old men fighting conflicts that are hundreds, even thousands of years old and refuse to let it go. I don't have patience for that crap one bit either.
Believing in hell is literally the worst thing to believe in Throw that shit away buddy Hell is not real and neither is the Christian god real If you would actually read the bible you would realize that the being described as god is the most evil person ever You can easily see that this god was written by humans
Why didn't this sort of thing exist 26+ years ago when I needed it? My mom shipped me off to Lakeside Christian School of Clearwater Florida for a bunch of hellfire and brimstone sermons. All I got was 27 years of paranoia.
Reading the Bible as if it's a literal transmission from God is the problem. Bible was written by people. So whatever inspiration they had, it was still filtered by their experience and personality. There is no way of saying what is the truth and what is BS, than by listening to our body and our connection to intuition telling us that it's good. And in the end, what we will find out to be true, will always be pure spiritual love which is expansive in nature, allowing for growth, and stripped away from all the punitivness, traditions, rules and formal practices.
There is a book written in the 1980s by James Barr called 'Escaping from fundamentalism' which deals with the underlying theological structure of Christian fundamentalism', and in which he shows from the Bible that fundamentalism' does not really line up with what the Bible actually says. It is a truly brilliant book and I highly recommend it. I have had a lot of RTS over the years due to being in a very conservative church. I had a mental breakdown when I was 17 and I attempted committing suicide, by taking a huge overdose. I recovered but it was a horrible experience. Later on , in the nineties, I suffered from OCD believing I had commited the unforgivable sin. I still have the OCD and I still suffer from RTS. I think that a fundamentalist interpretation sets up an anxiety cycle due to it's dualism of the reward of heaven or the punishment of hell.
In my church, the kids are down on the carpet around their parents' feet quietly coloring, playing with dolls or toys, or amusing themselves in any way that doesn't distract the worshipers. Forcing kids to "behave" and "pay attention" for hours could end up making kids hate to go to church, I think.
Christ is Risen! This presentation on trauma and our body''s response is fascinating. I have been a devout Orthodox Christian for most of my life, but have also suffered from various forms of trauma, which had become debilitating. I am in the process of being healed, and have been helped my Orthodox Christians, including Dr. Nicole Roccas. Mother Siluana of Vlad, Romania believes that using many of the new advances in understanding trauma, and especially generational trauma and the sin of our ancestors, is almost life-changing. She uses the lense of Scripture and the writings of the Philokalia. I haven't finished listening to this recording yet, but what I have heard so far is spot on. These derogatory and inflammatory comments only hinder understanding the grace of God, and the true healing that is found in the Orthodox church. What are people so afraid of? We serve a mighty God.
Thank you for sharing. Are you reading Mother Siluana's book "God, Where is the Wound?" I recently stumbled upon it and am halfway through. It is quite enlightening and helpful. I have been able to make some connections that previously eluded me. She represents a true, generous Orthodox mind.
I don't know what Orthodox Church you attend but I was born into the Church and raised my children in it. I went to Sunday School and so did my children, from Pre-K all the way up to 8th grade. Depending on the grade and ages they started with Christian coloring books and as they matured then they were taught more about our beliefs, but there was always room for play, moving around and socializing with their peers. They were brought in to receive Holy Communion then brought back to Sunday School. Then at the at end they were brought back into the Church where our Priest would speak to them and answer questions they might have. Mother's and/or Father's with infants and toddlers had a special room in the back as not to disturb Liturgy if they needed to use it. Children can't possibly be expected to sit or stand still for long periods of time and as far as I know our Church understands this. Or maybe I am just lucky to have great Priests.
Knowledge of aftereffects of trauma ought to be part of the toolkit of Orthodox clergy, but funding for expanding the term of study in seminary would have to be found to accommodate it to the curricula. 3 years of seminary study is not adequate to all the demands now placed on servants of the Church. Every church jurisdiction should consider continuing education as a yearly requirement for continuing active ministry and promote leaves of absence for intensive study.
I really wish fawn could be dropped from the reactions and stick to the main three. Fawning may be unconscious at times, but it's really an extension of freeze. Ive noticed in orher conversations that people also seem to keep adding new ones on to the list and doing so is erroneous and complicates the concepts and discussions around them.
Lordship salvation causes brain damage that may be permanent. It activates and strengthens the amygdala, responsible for aggression, anxiety, and a lack of compassion. The brains of people who believe in grace have growth in the anterior cingulate cortex, which leads to compassion and empathy. When Christians are given contradictions, that God is loving as he is angry, then the amygdala grows ever more and the person worsens.
We need Orthodox psychologists ASAP! There are many useful tools in contemporary psychology for healing trauma, and we need to make them our own. But the liberal values pushed by Dr Anderson and most psychologists fundamentally contradict Orthodoxy, and if people heal from trauma and associate the healing with a liberal worldview they will eventually fall away from the faith.
No. Orthodox Christianity is neither liberal nor conservative. It’s not an ideology, what we do in church. Where did you get this notion that psychology is an ideology opposed to your faith? Perhaps your faith is merely an ideology and isn’t a life in Christ, have you considered that?
@@claesvanoldenphatt9972 Just to be clear for anyone reading, I'm not using the term "liberal worldview" in purely political terms, obviously this has nothing to do with tax rates and trade policy. I'm using it in regards to its all encompassing philosophical system. That includes doctrines like atomistic individualism, gender social constructivism, and sexual antinomianism. All of which contradict Orthodox doctrine, and when embraced will most likely result in people leaving the church. A particular conception of the good/health has to be presuppossed by psychiatrists in therapy, there is no self evident generic view of what health is. The question is whether your psychiatrist is in accord with orthodoxy, and many are not.
@@SudoDama I see. Even so-called ‘conservatism’ is a type of classic liberalism. I think we need to respect boundaries between disciplines. Doctors of psychology are formed differently than Orthodox clergy and they perform different roles.
You are wrong. If your orthodoxy is so weak it can withstand having the ability to place it in a context of the world outside, then shut your doors and windows and dwell within your our darkness of retreat and fear.
Cradle catholic, converting to evangelicism but not really happy there,but the excess Mariane devotion stops me to back to rc, knowing the gospel of praying to God the father through Jesus in the spirit so at the moment l dont go to any church
Do you live in a world where only Orthodox opinion is valid? Must be an extremely small place. Get real, most people in North America aren’t ever going to be Orthodox in our lifetimes. But you do you.
I grew up in a non-Christian family, but was a Christian believer since middle school in non-denominational churches until my early twenties in a fundamentalist Bible Presbyterian (Calvinist) church for 3 to 4 years. Such damage can occur in congregations which are highly controlling and based on core teachings such as the predestination of the elect before time, unconditional election, total depravity, basically the TULIP doctrines of Calvinism, because they thrive on manipulating feelings like core shame, guilt, and fear to control the believer. It didn't help that church really hates psychology and psychologists, and tried very hard to stop me from finding psychological help. Thank God that I left it behind after I got a graduate school offer in Canada, and as time went by, I decided to convert to Eastern Orthodoxy.
I would say religions with very strongly legalistic doctrines are certainly conducive to causing religious trauma. I would be willing to assume that many people in Orthodox churches, where legalism and liturgy are hugely emphasized, have been left with some religious trauma.
How are we to control how we or children respond to dogmatic truths? Of course, we don't hide them, but at the same time we need to empathize with their feelings and not dismiss them as strange. It seems to me that the solution is to not gaslight people when they react to dogma as strange, but acknowledge that these reactions are real and things can be confusing/strange. Yet ultimately, communicating that things are true regardless and we need to learn to accept them as the new normal. But one glaring problem as well: if children don't learn the 'scary truths', then that is what can be traumatic if they are learned too late. Yet if it is communicated even from a young age, it merely becomes a part of how they see the world and others. I believe we can do children a great disservice to hide the 'scary' parts of the faith until later because by then, their normal view of the world is a secular, non-religious one in many ways. Yet if they accept it as what is true, they will understand the world around them on the basis of these dogmatic truths. I'm not saying read the X rated parts of Scripture to a 4 year old, but do point out before kids are in middle school or something, that God DOES have the right to give and take away life for example. Otherwise, how will they read the majority of the Old Testament? Or what will happen when they DO read it on their own? They'll say, "This isn't the God I was taught about...!". What kind of God do they really have in their heads if he can never show vengeance, judgment, etc.? I think of my own journey when my Mom often communicated things on the basis of, "We do this because God says to", and was very clear about what God wanted and what SHE wanted. Additionally, she always talked about God as if He was with us at all times, so I was taught the omnipresence of God through her actions and have never questioned it. Of course, this can be detrimental for those who are taught falsehoods, but when we teach those things that we are confident as dogmatic and a basis for the Christian faith, they are certainly more true than the secular lies of carnality that our culture perpetuates. Kids will be brainwashed regardless, the question is, with what?
your comment still just reeks of gaslighting and guilt-tripping people who like me who are severely traumatised by fundamentalist religious teachings of godly vs. secularism. It does not reflect self-reflection and continue to see the world outside as "dangerous". Sorry. No matter how you try to twist and turn on this, people like us are still deeply traumatised by our experiences, which are invalidated and diluted by the defense of religous ppl like you. It is something that we find very hard to come out from.
@@shawnleong3605I hear where you’re coming from, that’s why I mention validating feelings that would be considered normal responses to seemingly scary information. At the same time, our culture does not have a sort of agreed upon default of how kids should be, what is true, what is not. We are in a post-modern society where everyone has their own ideas of truth and this is the consequence. Consider the reverse: secular trauma. Someone grows up in a family that considers gender affirming care to be an ideal response to a boy who starts playing with dolls. It’s not until he transitions and lives through a lot of hardship that he detransitions and becomes a Christian. He considers his background on the basis of secular trauma that didn’t have an understanding of him as being made in the image of God (e.g. God made him to be a boy) and so says he went through tremendous amounts of trauma due to that. Or alternatively, a child grows up thinking all they are is an animal, brought about randomly for no other purpose than to fulfill his own desires. Later on, he experiences this as a type of trauma after becoming religious and finding there is a greater purpose beyond himself of entering a relationship with God, especially after spending years getting into drugs and alcohol, and experiencing lasting, lifelong consequences from that lifestyle. My point is, a lifestyle change to something different than our parents can be a type of trauma at times from either side.
@@trithos7308 you’re presupposing these things are not true and that the people who believe them actually do not think so (e.g. “made to control” as you say) and so are using them as weapons of control and abuse. I’m sure you wouldn’t call things you consider true (e.g. jumping off a cliff will kill you) to be abuse if you told a child it but that’s what it seems like you’re doing: considering your own dogma of Christianity not being true to be sufficient grounds to call it a tool for control and abuse.
@@orthochap9124 You don't need to be actively aware of the control to prepatuate it. I think the control through fear is just inherently the purpose it is meant to serve. Of course, such fear driven control will always have a lot of trauma for many. difference being, one of these things is a situation where there is no actual way to verify any of your claims about those "truths" (which is why even you would refer to it as faith), and the other is a very verifiable fact. Gravity will mess you up, and it's a basic survival thing.
Soooo ... do we just let our children act like brats? I think the long-term consequences for not teaching children how to behave at an early age will cause them trauma as adults when they aren't able to function in society.
Don't teach them to be religious at all you don't even bring them to church we need free thinkers the Next Generation I was in fundamentalism for about a year just last week I walked out in the middle of Bible School deep down inside I'll always need it I was an atheist people think they need to raise their kids in religion to teach them morals but they don't it's very dangerous for kids
I wanted a Christian Home to not be trash nor associate with trash! I am noticing that if I see or hear what is in a movie on tv. I turn it off. My husband watches without thinking! I have no Abraham Religions.
I'm not sure what your point is. This isn't a discussion about the fundamental aspects of our faith as Christians. It's a discussion about the way teachings and mindsets that are unhealthy in several ways are presented within religious bodies and often push people to disregard religion. Dr. Laura Anderson is talking about how to overcome the damage done.
@Narrow Path Christ is risen! I haven’t watched the video completely either, as it is still just live streaming now. But I will still let my comment stand, as it’s a pretty cheap shot to accuse someone of dismissing church dogmas, when what that person was clearly opposing was “fundamentalism,“ which is that well-known phenomenon of making dogmas out of theological opinions. We don’t have to watch the video to realize that Mr. O’Tool’s comment was either misguided at best or disingenuous and inflammatory at worst.
There is no fix. If you think Orthodoxy or some other practice or ideology fixes you, you are mistaken. This simplistic thinking will cause you much unhappiness. To be Christian is to embrace the Cross, doesn’t the gospel teach that? Christ doesn’t take away suffering, he takes it upon himself so we can bear it on the way to becoming christlike ourselves. There is no resurrection without the cross. We aren’t doing yoga here.
That foesnt fix anything and might make the problem much worse. Though i have a suspicion that dou dont believe me and even if you did you wouldn't care what would actually help
I think a real experience with Christ Jesus would just be the answer, that may sound backward and simplistic to these individuals but I pray to listen to Christ and endure to the end......yes Christ said His own would not listen to a strangers voice and not follow a stranger.....so that all rests on knowing Christ first and hearing HIs voice only in all .....like when a baby knows the scent of its mother and will recoil at any other scent in some instances, its on the level of familial.............when church is a club its not really Church anyway.....(reptilian brain? that says volumes gotcha)
In orthodoxy unfortunately you aren't saved unless you pray to Mary. It's no longer the Gospel of Christ, it is now the Gospel of Mary who leads you to Christ.
Dr. Anderson's mention of fundamentalism being a way for a dysregulated nervous system to cope is a very interesting one and I have to agree. I have known individuals extremely involved in their religions that seem to follow many of the patterns discussed in this podcast. I've contemplated their ideas and behaviors before, so this sort of corroborates with my findings. This idea can be also be expanded outside of religion to other arenas where we see people taking on ideologies or sets of beliefs to cope with life and avoid having to be introspective and decide what is right for them as an individual. It really does serve the purpose of attempting to feel "safe" need to distract themselves from the Human Condition.
" Illusion of safety! " So strong and so true, coopendency to the core, it can literaly destroy person involved
As a psychology graduate and a conservative Christian (Anglo-Catholic), I want to say thanks for making this video. I grew up fundamental baptist. And unless you have experienced the daily shame and humiliation a fundamentalist church puts you through, it is easy to criticize us as just not trusting God. I still believe all the Biblical doctrines such as hell and the virgin birth. But being in a church where the pastor literally screams at you, mentions you by name from the pulpit because he is mad at you, mocks non-Baptist, tells you that God will kill or torture you on earth if you wear pants as a woman or listen to rock music often all while these pastors are committing adultery, misusing the finances, and even at times committing serious sexual crimes, leaves legitimate mental trauma. The last time I stepped in a Baptist church I felt like I was going to pass out because my body went into a real fight or flight mode. I've been in these churches and the trauma is very real and needs to be addressed with legitimate psychotherapy. Does that mean psychotherapy is always perfect? No. But as we Christians use it more and more, I truly believe we can refine it to be more Christ like, just as we have over the centuries with many physical sciences.
I am so sorry to hear about your experience 🙏
@@Theoria Appreciate your kind words. The liturgical church had been a big healing factor.
Gosh dang I'm sorry ma'am. I feel for ya. Such fundamentalism, legalism, the mindset like those of the Pharisees, and pitiful politics are the main reasons why I'm hesitant with Orthodoxy and Catholicism. It just seems like a bunch of bitter old men fighting conflicts that are hundreds, even thousands of years old and refuse to let it go. I don't have patience for that crap one bit either.
@@Theoria so let me get this straight “fundamentalism” is a bad thing now? And the collapse of Christianity continues 🤣
Believing in hell is literally the worst thing to believe in
Throw that shit away buddy
Hell is not real and neither is the Christian god real
If you would actually read the bible you would realize that the being described as god is the most evil person ever
You can easily see that this god was written by humans
Why didn't this sort of thing exist 26+ years ago when I needed it?
My mom shipped me off to Lakeside Christian School of Clearwater Florida for a bunch of hellfire and brimstone sermons. All I got was 27 years of paranoia.
I'm sorry that happened to you
Reading the Bible as if it's a literal transmission from God is the problem. Bible was written by people. So whatever inspiration they had, it was still filtered by their experience and personality. There is no way of saying what is the truth and what is BS, than by listening to our body and our connection to intuition telling us that it's good. And in the end, what we will find out to be true, will always be pure spiritual love which is expansive in nature, allowing for growth, and stripped away from all the punitivness, traditions, rules and formal practices.
There is a book written in the 1980s by James Barr called 'Escaping from fundamentalism' which deals with the underlying theological structure of Christian fundamentalism', and in which he shows from the Bible that fundamentalism' does not really line up with what the Bible actually says. It is a truly brilliant book and I highly recommend it.
I have had a lot of RTS over the years due to being in a very conservative church.
I had a mental breakdown when I was 17
and I attempted committing suicide, by taking a huge overdose. I recovered but it was a horrible experience.
Later on , in the nineties, I suffered from OCD believing I had commited the unforgivable sin. I still have the OCD and I still suffer from RTS. I think that a fundamentalist interpretation sets up an anxiety cycle due to it's dualism of the reward of heaven or the punishment of hell.
In my church, the kids are down on the carpet around their parents' feet quietly coloring, playing with dolls or toys, or amusing themselves in any way that doesn't distract the worshipers. Forcing kids to "behave" and "pay attention" for hours could end up making kids hate to go to church, I think.
I can attest that it does.
I like tour churchs approach. Let kids be kids and play, as long as they are not bothersome.
@@RowenaSnow-px3jg bothersome? They're your kids!!
The existential crisis 😢 yes! That really hits home, evidenced by my tears flowing right now....
Thanks ❤ as a Muslim.
Love from India 🇮🇳
@ 14 Feb 2024
Christ is Risen! This presentation on trauma and our body''s response is fascinating. I have been a devout Orthodox Christian for most of my life, but have also suffered from various forms of trauma, which had become debilitating. I am in the process of being healed, and have been helped my Orthodox Christians, including Dr. Nicole Roccas. Mother Siluana of Vlad, Romania believes that using many of the new advances in understanding trauma, and especially generational trauma and the sin of our ancestors, is almost life-changing. She uses the lense of Scripture and the writings of the Philokalia. I haven't finished listening to this recording yet, but what I have heard so far is spot on. These derogatory and inflammatory comments only hinder understanding the grace of God, and the true healing that is found in the Orthodox church. What are people so afraid of? We serve a mighty God.
Thank you for sharing. Are you reading Mother Siluana's book "God, Where is the Wound?" I recently stumbled upon it and am halfway through. It is quite enlightening and helpful. I have been able to make some connections that previously eluded me. She represents a true, generous Orthodox mind.
Thank you, Ben. I needed this one.
🙏
Thanks for sharing this... we're Transgender, Clean&Sober, and a Recovering Southern Baptist 🙏
I don't know what Orthodox Church you attend but I was born into the Church and raised my children in it. I went to Sunday School and so did my children, from Pre-K all the way up to 8th grade. Depending on the grade and ages they started with Christian coloring books and as they matured then they were taught more about our beliefs, but there was always room for play, moving around and socializing with their peers. They were brought in to receive Holy Communion then brought back to Sunday School. Then at the at end they were brought back into the Church where our Priest would speak to them and answer questions they might have. Mother's and/or Father's with infants and toddlers had a special room in the back as not to disturb Liturgy if they needed to use it. Children can't possibly be expected to sit or stand still for long periods of time and as far as I know our Church understands this. Or maybe I am just lucky to have great Priests.
Knowledge of aftereffects of trauma ought to be part of the toolkit of Orthodox clergy, but funding for expanding the term of study in seminary would have to be found to accommodate it to the curricula. 3 years of seminary study is not adequate to all the demands now placed on servants of the Church. Every church jurisdiction should consider continuing education as a yearly requirement for continuing active ministry and promote leaves of absence for intensive study.
I really wish fawn could be dropped from the reactions and stick to the main three. Fawning may be unconscious at times, but it's really an extension of freeze. Ive noticed in orher conversations that people also seem to keep adding new ones on to the list and doing so is erroneous and complicates the concepts and discussions around them.
It’s real. Writing through now, good luck.
42, blocked out for 20 years, dealing with now. Not fun.
Lordship salvation causes brain damage that may be permanent. It activates and strengthens the amygdala, responsible for aggression, anxiety, and a lack of compassion. The brains of people who believe in grace have growth in the anterior cingulate cortex, which leads to compassion and empathy.
When Christians are given contradictions, that God is loving as he is angry, then the amygdala grows ever more and the person worsens.
Can you explain me where did you get this information? It’s very intéressant!
I would also like to know were exactly you got that from.
We need Orthodox psychologists ASAP! There are many useful tools in contemporary psychology for healing trauma, and we need to make them our own. But the liberal values pushed by Dr Anderson and most psychologists fundamentally contradict Orthodoxy, and if people heal from trauma and associate the healing with a liberal worldview they will eventually fall away from the faith.
Yes. However, there are many good Orthodox therapists working in the field of trauma.
No. Orthodox Christianity is neither liberal nor conservative. It’s not an ideology, what we do in church. Where did you get this notion that psychology is an ideology opposed to your faith? Perhaps your faith is merely an ideology and isn’t a life in Christ, have you considered that?
@@claesvanoldenphatt9972 Just to be clear for anyone reading, I'm not using the term "liberal worldview" in purely political terms, obviously this has nothing to do with tax rates and trade policy. I'm using it in regards to its all encompassing philosophical system. That includes doctrines like atomistic individualism, gender social constructivism, and sexual antinomianism. All of which contradict Orthodox doctrine, and when embraced will most likely result in people leaving the church. A particular conception of the good/health has to be presuppossed by psychiatrists in therapy, there is no self evident generic view of what health is. The question is whether your psychiatrist is in accord with orthodoxy, and many are not.
@@SudoDama I see. Even so-called ‘conservatism’ is a type of classic liberalism. I think we need to respect boundaries between disciplines. Doctors of psychology are formed differently than Orthodox clergy and they perform different roles.
You are wrong. If your orthodoxy is so weak it can withstand having the ability to place it in a context of the world outside, then shut your doors and windows and dwell within your our darkness of retreat and fear.
I began reading her book yesterday and feel so seen even though I’m only 1/3 through
Cradle catholic, converting to evangelicism but not really happy there,but the excess Mariane devotion stops me to back to rc, knowing the gospel of praying to God the father through Jesus in the spirit so at the moment l dont go to any church
Is she orthodox? Not sure how you can reconcile the 2…..
Do you live in a world where only Orthodox opinion is valid? Must be an extremely small place. Get real, most people in North America aren’t ever going to be Orthodox in our lifetimes. But you do you.
This is an amazing discussion.
How can you reprogram yourself?
Is this a problem that people who grow up in Orthodoxy face?
I grew up in a non-Christian family, but was a Christian believer since middle school in non-denominational churches until my early twenties in a fundamentalist Bible Presbyterian (Calvinist) church for 3 to 4 years. Such damage can occur in congregations which are highly controlling and based on core teachings such as the predestination of the elect before time, unconditional election, total depravity, basically the TULIP doctrines of Calvinism, because they thrive on manipulating feelings like core shame, guilt, and fear to control the believer. It didn't help that church really hates psychology and psychologists, and tried very hard to stop me from finding psychological help. Thank God that I left it behind after I got a graduate school offer in Canada, and as time went by, I decided to convert to Eastern Orthodoxy.
I would say religions with very strongly legalistic doctrines are certainly conducive to causing religious trauma. I would be willing to assume that many people in Orthodox churches, where legalism and liturgy are hugely emphasized, have been left with some religious trauma.
I believe BF Skinner was the psychologist mentioned at 4 min
How are we to control how we or children respond to dogmatic truths? Of course, we don't hide them, but at the same time we need to empathize with their feelings and not dismiss them as strange. It seems to me that the solution is to not gaslight people when they react to dogma as strange, but acknowledge that these reactions are real and things can be confusing/strange. Yet ultimately, communicating that things are true regardless and we need to learn to accept them as the new normal.
But one glaring problem as well: if children don't learn the 'scary truths', then that is what can be traumatic if they are learned too late. Yet if it is communicated even from a young age, it merely becomes a part of how they see the world and others.
I believe we can do children a great disservice to hide the 'scary' parts of the faith until later because by then, their normal view of the world is a secular, non-religious one in many ways. Yet if they accept it as what is true, they will understand the world around them on the basis of these dogmatic truths. I'm not saying read the X rated parts of Scripture to a 4 year old, but do point out before kids are in middle school or something, that God DOES have the right to give and take away life for example. Otherwise, how will they read the majority of the Old Testament? Or what will happen when they DO read it on their own? They'll say, "This isn't the God I was taught about...!". What kind of God do they really have in their heads if he can never show vengeance, judgment, etc.?
I think of my own journey when my Mom often communicated things on the basis of, "We do this because God says to", and was very clear about what God wanted and what SHE wanted. Additionally, she always talked about God as if He was with us at all times, so I was taught the omnipresence of God through her actions and have never questioned it.
Of course, this can be detrimental for those who are taught falsehoods, but when we teach those things that we are confident as dogmatic and a basis for the Christian faith, they are certainly more true than the secular lies of carnality that our culture perpetuates. Kids will be brainwashed regardless, the question is, with what?
your comment still just reeks of gaslighting and guilt-tripping people who like me who are severely traumatised by fundamentalist religious teachings of godly vs. secularism. It does not reflect self-reflection and continue to see the world outside as "dangerous". Sorry. No matter how you try to twist and turn on this, people like us are still deeply traumatised by our experiences, which are invalidated and diluted by the defense of religous ppl like you. It is something that we find very hard to come out from.
@@shawnleong3605I hear where you’re coming from, that’s why I mention validating feelings that would be considered normal responses to seemingly scary information.
At the same time, our culture does not have a sort of agreed upon default of how kids should be, what is true, what is not. We are in a post-modern society where everyone has their own ideas of truth and this is the consequence.
Consider the reverse: secular trauma. Someone grows up in a family that considers gender affirming care to be an ideal response to a boy who starts playing with dolls. It’s not until he transitions and lives through a lot of hardship that he detransitions and becomes a Christian. He considers his background on the basis of secular trauma that didn’t have an understanding of him as being made in the image of God (e.g. God made him to be a boy) and so says he went through tremendous amounts of trauma due to that.
Or alternatively, a child grows up thinking all they are is an animal, brought about randomly for no other purpose than to fulfill his own desires. Later on, he experiences this as a type of trauma after becoming religious and finding there is a greater purpose beyond himself of entering a relationship with God, especially after spending years getting into drugs and alcohol, and experiencing lasting, lifelong consequences from that lifestyle.
My point is, a lifestyle change to something different than our parents can be a type of trauma at times from either side.
Its almosf like your "docmatic truths" (the audacity to proclaim your abuse to be truths, pfft) is made to control through fear and terror
@@trithos7308 you’re presupposing these things are not true and that the people who believe them actually do not think so (e.g. “made to control” as you say) and so are using them as weapons of control and abuse.
I’m sure you wouldn’t call things you consider true (e.g. jumping off a cliff will kill you) to be abuse if you told a child it but that’s what it seems like you’re doing: considering your own dogma of Christianity not being true to be sufficient grounds to call it a tool for control and abuse.
@@orthochap9124 You don't need to be actively aware of the control to prepatuate it. I think the control through fear is just inherently the purpose it is meant to serve. Of course, such fear driven control will always have a lot of trauma for many.
difference being, one of these things is a situation where there is no actual way to verify any of your claims about those "truths" (which is why even you would refer to it as faith), and the other is a very verifiable fact. Gravity will mess you up, and it's a basic survival thing.
Batesons double bond theory.
Believing in theoria is fundamentalist and we dont need healing from that.
this is manufactured consent - the religios realm
(Double bind theory)
Soooo ... do we just let our children act like brats? I think the long-term consequences for not teaching children how to behave at an early age will cause them trauma as adults when they aren't able to function in society.
Don't teach them to be religious at all you don't even bring them to church we need free thinkers the Next Generation I was in fundamentalism for about a year just last week I walked out in the middle of Bible School deep down inside I'll always need it I was an atheist people think they need to raise their kids in religion to teach them morals but they don't it's very dangerous for kids
I wanted a Christian Home to not be trash nor associate with trash!
I am noticing that if I see or hear what is in a movie on tv. I turn it off. My husband watches without thinking!
I have no Abraham Religions.
Which fundamental hurt you the worstest? Was it the virgin birth? The resurrection?
I'm not sure what your point is. This isn't a discussion about the fundamental aspects of our faith as Christians. It's a discussion about the way teachings and mindsets that are unhealthy in several ways are presented within religious bodies and often push people to disregard religion. Dr. Laura Anderson is talking about how to overcome the damage done.
Pobrecito. Congrats, Mr. O’Tool, on missing the point.
@@narrowpath89 what in this video would you say is nonsensical?
@Narrow Path Christ is risen! I haven’t watched the video completely either, as it is still just live streaming now. But I will still let my comment stand, as it’s a pretty cheap shot to accuse someone of dismissing church dogmas, when what that person was clearly opposing was “fundamentalism,“ which is that well-known phenomenon of making dogmas out of theological opinions. We don’t have to watch the video to realize that Mr. O’Tool’s comment was either misguided at best or disingenuous and inflammatory at worst.
@Narrow Path Re: the content of the video itself, I echo Joshua: What do you find objectionable?
The fix would be reading Gods word and the lives of the Saints with a life of prayer... that sounds great to me
There is no fix. If you think Orthodoxy or some other practice or ideology fixes you, you are mistaken. This simplistic thinking will cause you much unhappiness. To be Christian is to embrace the Cross, doesn’t the gospel teach that? Christ doesn’t take away suffering, he takes it upon himself so we can bear it on the way to becoming christlike ourselves. There is no resurrection without the cross.
We aren’t doing yoga here.
The fix is throw that garbage bible in the trash where it belongs
The bible and any other religious book was written by humans to enslave our minds
That foesnt fix anything and might make the problem much worse. Though i have a suspicion that dou dont believe me and even if you did you wouldn't care what would actually help
I think a real experience with Christ Jesus would just be the answer, that may sound backward and simplistic to these individuals but I pray to listen to Christ and endure to the end......yes Christ said His own would not listen to a strangers voice and not follow a stranger.....so that all rests on knowing Christ first and hearing HIs voice only in all .....like when a baby knows the scent of its mother and will recoil at any other scent in some instances, its on the level of familial.............when church is a club its not really Church anyway.....(reptilian brain? that says volumes gotcha)
Just her voice make me unable to listen this vidéo. It puts me on trauma response. I dont hear anything.
In orthodoxy unfortunately you aren't saved unless you pray to Mary. It's no longer the Gospel of Christ, it is now the Gospel of Mary who leads you to Christ.
You can prayer directly to Christ in Orthodoxy…
Wrong.
Lol
I could be wrong, but it sounds like they are not using the term "orthodox" as in Catholic, but more like by the book/fundamentalist.
Lol as a fundamentalist I’m in no need of healing from people who bend like reeds to modern ideologies
then screw off?