21:22 can confirm, the cards were all bent to a greater or lesser degree for me, even before I played them. Opened it up, placed the first scenario card, and it bows up in the middle, so I have trouble keeping the mini and cubes in the right spot. I still think you get a good amount of game for the price, but the bent cards were very disappointing, especially since you’re using them as a board for other pieces.
I love how Mike is able to be involved in reviews. I haven't played but I think what Mike said is what I kind of felt this would be for me. I also don't love puzzle's as the main point, I like a little more free wheeling fun in a 'dungeon crawl' esque game. I was backing this and cancelled and now glad I did. Also online rulebook sounds annoying. Thanks for the review!
I have played probably 100 games of Gloomhaven/Frosthaven solo (2 mercenaries) and love it. I look forward to playing this as a travel version or lighter experience on a weeknight.
For a small game like this, "go into a room and fight monsters" is really all it needs to be. But I don't think it's for people new to Gloomhaven. It's for people who know Gloomhaven well and want a lighter experience.
I don't know the whole story, but I believe the author of this wrote "Gloomholdin'", a very similar game you can find on BoardGameGeek. I don't know if they approached him or he approached them or if something completely other happened, but Joel Klipfel wrote both.
I can't help to notice the 6 slots for moving the white cube on the modifier chart, and wonder if they tried it with numbers on the cube and numbering the slots 1-6! Although this way you would have to roll two dice!
I thought about that too. The cube progression version kind of splits the difference between purely random die rolls and a deck of attack modifier cards.
I picked this up as a solo filler game that I feel will be at least a good play. It's size will make it easy to toss into my bag to play while out an about. At the price I'm certainly going to fell okay about my cost per play ratio even if I don't complete the whole campaign. BTW: it was $15 + shipping when I backed it.
For abilities with a small line separating them, do I get both in the single action? For instance, at 5:33, on kinetic assault. Do I get 1 movement and 3 attack for the top action?
Indeed. Variety of presentation and abilities didn't entice me enough with Gloomhaven. Nor do campaign stories really do much for me, as they tend to be too disjointed of snippets in board game form to feel like a real story.
Dice are more inherently luck based because as you draw down the modifier deck, your odds are recalculated based on what cards are now left and the odds of drawing a particular card increase whereas dice have no knowledge of the previous die roll.
@@quiescent1530True, but with the way this is done, any time you roll the "to hit" modifier die, it can only be end up being one of three possible known outcomes, that are explicitly stated on the card. And you can work this into your strategy, seeing which turns you are going to have a 1 out of 3 chance of getting double damage, and perhaps work to gain advantage during that attack. In Gloomhaven. with the deck, until you start getting through the deck, you have more potential outcomes.
@@quiescent1530 From the card charts, the dice are more predictable than a Gloomhaven attack modifier deck. With the dice, you'll know the worst case scenario to account for. You know when you can get a null and can plan accordingly. With the attack modifier deck, you're at the whims of the Goddess of Null. Sure, it's only a 5% chance with your first draw. But, each attack you're just watching the odds of that damn card increase. Sure, you might pull the x2 first, but it only comes out when you don't need it. A 20 card deck with two cards that reset the odds for the next draw is rarely more predictable than a 6-sided die. I don't have the die, but it looks like it really might be a d3. It's uncommon for the standard attack modifier deck to provide a 33% (or better) outcome for any particular draw. The advantage of the attack modifier deck is that the game allows you to make your own luck. It doesn't take much manipulating of that deck to make the deck more predictable. Additionally, getting advantage pushes the deck in your favor as well. That starting attack modifier deck though, it's a cruel mistress.
I enjoyed JotL but even with that I had my Gloomhaven fill. I liked the card mechanic compared to dice rolls in other dungeon crawlers, though I don’t really want to play something as massive as the main game (or even Jaws of the Lion again). When I saw this, I thought it was perfect for me, it gives me that GH card play dungeon craw fix without investing months to years of my life to it (I’d rather play a ttrpg for that).
Played a few games recently and agree 100% with Mike. I want to recommend this game but really can't unless you're a gloomhaven veteran and like tiny solo games
One thing that I am looking forward to are expansions as the limited amount of components makes it easy to expand. More campaigns, missions, monsters, items and characters are obvious. I can also see a campaing designed for two players.
The scenarios are incredibly tight, Many of my plays were down to the luck of the dice, a case of constantly replaying the same scenario until the rolls went in my favour which made the game tedious, a great achievement in what they have done here but man is it hard if dice hate you! No matter how good you combo your cards……I had a much easier time with the first Gloomhaven campaign and really enjoyed that….this on the other hand I’ll be moving on.
I was looking forward to something like „this could be great as an easy introduction into the Gloomhaven system.“ First try this, then Jaws, then the full gane. Looks like this is not the case.
The complaints about the die don't make much sense. Yes, Gloomhaven doesn't use dice, but it uses RNG nonetheless. Whether it's a die or a stack of cards don't matter much. If the combat deck got reshuffled after every draw there would be no difference to using dice. As is past draws do influence future draws, unlike a die. But soon enough one of the 2 reshuffle cards get drawn and resets the "memory" of the deck. Overall the difference to throwing a die isn't that big. For a small compact micro version that can't have big stacks of cards using that +0- die is pretty perfect to approximate the original result distribution. Yes, it's just a tactical puzzle game. Which is also what X-haven is. It's packaged in theme, but the "story" of the campaigns is generally weak (a bit less so in Frosthaven, but people complain about the outpost phase). Buttons and Bugs just boils it down more to the underlying puzzle. The rulebook size is also pretty irrelevant. The main target group of players is going to be x-haven players. They already know the rules. Understanding B&B is a couple of minutes to see the differences for this micro version. I'm actually impressed how much they kept from the main games in this micro edition. Overall I found this whole review a bit weird. B&B was talked about as if it was another JOTL. Everything that was criticized is part of making this micro design work. The A/B cards, the die, the size, etc... This game is for people who enjoy the tactical puzzles of X-haven games and want to enjoy that either solo anywhere or on a plane or otherwise travelling. Or you just bring it to a coffee shop on a lazy Sunday afternoon. B&B fully delivers in its design goals. As with everything else this is not going to appeal to everyone, but all the critiques that are based on what the design goals require don't make sense to me.
I disagree with some thoughts. About material, I think it’s right for the price and the quality you get. Yes cards are a bit curved, but bending them with your hands in the opposite direction for few seconds, solve this issue. Print is good, card quality is enough, you don’t need to shuffle them, never, and this is not secondary. I find very pleasant solving puzzle, and this game give me Gloomhaven vibe at the right compromise. More, controlling one character in a game like this is much more comfortable than two in solo! The only 2 things I complain are: they should have used cards in more creative ways, combining two cards for example to have more complex dungeon (use tarot size should be appreciated too), and the rules. This game indeed is immediate for who already knows Gloomhaven rules (and I know them), but a bit steep for novice. Especially for a solitaire. I really appreciate it btw and I hope in similar initiatives. Thanks for the video in any case, I always appreciate your content.
Seems like it's built of the same stock as the cards in the full size games. Jaws was my first entry into the series and I love the games but all the character ability cards looked worn to crap on the edges after a few scenarios. The cards are pretty low quality. I guess they kept that same "quality" to be able to keep the price down.
After about 160 games with no sleeves between Gloomhaven and Frosthaven I don't understand this at all. I have no marks on any of my cards and just overhand shuffle. @@Upsh1ft
Hey what's with this with calling gloomhaven b&b a pocketable game?! This game is as pocketable as of gloomhaven is transportable. Cargo pantsable maybe... Still I want it cause it's backpackable. Lol
“Stop shrinking games! Stop expanding them! Leave them the size they are!! I don’t try to make my height taller… “ says Tom from his soap box. Kidding… he’s right. A lot of these seem like shameless (and thoughtless) cash grabs. Don’t be lazy, be creative. That… and Tom is like 6’4” so he definitely doesn’t need to make his height taller. 😂😂😂
I find tom's "I play everything on easy" comment interesting. Especially with video games and RPG's. If you play baulders gate 3 on easy you only need to use one spell the whole time and you are, basically, missing half of the game - which is about exploring the different interactions of spells and abilities. Easy mode negates all of that.
No respect for Mike for having to play gloomhaven on easy difficulty 🤪 I'm guessing the initiative roll always has 1/3 chance to be any of the three, so it goes around? Don't see how that is more swingy than the original draw from 8 or so cards, at least now you can see the odds all the time.
I recall Mike saying he had Gloomhaven twice and sold it both times because he couldn't get into it. Now he talks like a Gloomhaven fan/expert lol. I'm not surprised his score is so low.
20 minutes per session. It’s a campaign game. You can play it like a roguelike, if you try to complete the campaign with each character on multiple difficulty levels. That gives you potentially dozens of hours of gaming. For anyone who has played Gloomhaven, most of the rules are the same anyway, so it’s not really a 40 minute investment.
It should be called: Gloomhaven, Claws of the Kitten
What is this, a gloomhaven for ants?!
Definitely a gloomhaven for me.
The gloomhaven has to be at least, three times bigger than this!
Gloomhaven is so hot right now.
How can we expect to teach people to play Gloomhaven if they can’t even fit inside the building
It's gloomhaven for people who can't read good but want to learn to do other cool stuff too
21:22 can confirm, the cards were all bent to a greater or lesser degree for me, even before I played them. Opened it up, placed the first scenario card, and it bows up in the middle, so I have trouble keeping the mini and cubes in the right spot. I still think you get a good amount of game for the price, but the bent cards were very disappointing, especially since you’re using them as a board for other pieces.
You can get jaws of the lion sometimes for 5 dollars more than this... not a great deal
I love how Mike is able to be involved in reviews. I haven't played but I think what Mike said is what I kind of felt this would be for me. I also don't love puzzle's as the main point, I like a little more free wheeling fun in a 'dungeon crawl' esque game. I was backing this and cancelled and now glad I did. Also online rulebook sounds annoying. Thanks for the review!
I believe the MSRP is $19.99.
For $20, it seems like a great entry point into GH mechanics
@Trockenmatt agreed but I personally think it's still a little too complex for newbies. I've seen JOTL for $20 or less many times.
I have played probably 100 games of Gloomhaven/Frosthaven solo (2 mercenaries) and love it. I look forward to playing this as a travel version or lighter experience on a weeknight.
Tiny Epic Gloomhaven.
Exactly what I called in my game group.
@@RagingOwlbear great minds!
For a small game like this, "go into a room and fight monsters" is really all it needs to be. But I don't think it's for people new to Gloomhaven. It's for people who know Gloomhaven well and want a lighter experience.
I think it's for people that want to play Gloomhaven on their lunch break.
The rules are mostly identical, making it a rather complex game to learn for people with no Gloomhaven experience.
I don't know the whole story, but I believe the author of this wrote "Gloomholdin'", a very similar game you can find on BoardGameGeek. I don't know if they approached him or he approached them or if something completely other happened, but Joel Klipfel wrote both.
Correct - Cephalofair approached him, and Nikki Valens helped him develop it
I can't help to notice the 6 slots for moving the white cube on the modifier chart, and wonder if they tried it with numbers on the cube and numbering the slots 1-6! Although this way you would have to roll two dice!
I thought about that too. The cube progression version kind of splits the difference between purely random die rolls and a deck of attack modifier cards.
I picked this up as a solo filler game that I feel will be at least a good play. It's size will make it easy to toss into my bag to play while out an about. At the price I'm certainly going to fell okay about my cost per play ratio even if I don't complete the whole campaign. BTW: it was $15 + shipping when I backed it.
Out of curiosity, what are your favorite solo filler games?
For abilities with a small line separating them, do I get both in the single action? For instance, at 5:33, on kinetic assault. Do I get 1 movement and 3 attack for the top action?
I've been proudly save scumming since the 90s :-)
Playing GH in the pub is going to be a lot easier to set up now :)
Gloom haven and mice and mystics? Sounds fun!
Love the Dune Popcorn Bucket. Always keep that!
It's funny, "Walk into room, fight, repeat" was my experience with Gloomhaven itself, which is why I got bored with it quickly.
Indeed. Variety of presentation and abilities didn't entice me enough with Gloomhaven. Nor do campaign stories really do much for me, as they tend to be too disjointed of snippets in board game form to feel like a real story.
I think the old modifier deck was almost just as luck-based as the new die, but now you don't have to shuffle it.
Dice are more inherently luck based because as you draw down the modifier deck, your odds are recalculated based on what cards are now left and the odds of drawing a particular card increase whereas dice have no knowledge of the previous die roll.
@@quiescent1530 That is true, I guess, but I'm not counting cards, so rolling the die is still easier than shuffling the modifier deck to me.
@@quiescent1530True, but with the way this is done, any time you roll the "to hit" modifier die, it can only be end up being one of three possible known outcomes, that are explicitly stated on the card. And you can work this into your strategy, seeing which turns you are going to have a 1 out of 3 chance of getting double damage, and perhaps work to gain advantage during that attack. In Gloomhaven. with the deck, until you start getting through the deck, you have more potential outcomes.
@@quiescent1530 From the card charts, the dice are more predictable than a Gloomhaven attack modifier deck. With the dice, you'll know the worst case scenario to account for. You know when you can get a null and can plan accordingly.
With the attack modifier deck, you're at the whims of the Goddess of Null. Sure, it's only a 5% chance with your first draw. But, each attack you're just watching the odds of that damn card increase. Sure, you might pull the x2 first, but it only comes out when you don't need it.
A 20 card deck with two cards that reset the odds for the next draw is rarely more predictable than a 6-sided die. I don't have the die, but it looks like it really might be a d3. It's uncommon for the standard attack modifier deck to provide a 33% (or better) outcome for any particular draw.
The advantage of the attack modifier deck is that the game allows you to make your own luck. It doesn't take much manipulating of that deck to make the deck more predictable. Additionally, getting advantage pushes the deck in your favor as well.
That starting attack modifier deck though, it's a cruel mistress.
Watching horrible news and escaping now to The Dice Tower. Thank you for being there.
I enjoyed JotL but even with that I had my Gloomhaven fill. I liked the card mechanic compared to dice rolls in other dungeon crawlers, though I don’t really want to play something as massive as the main game (or even Jaws of the Lion again). When I saw this, I thought it was perfect for me, it gives me that GH card play dungeon craw fix without investing months to years of my life to it (I’d rather play a ttrpg for that).
Would help to place an object next to the box for scaling reference.
You know those 4 packs of sticks of butter you can buy in the store. Around that size
@@Darksbane100 wow that's tiny!
Looks like sleeving the cards is a must. They look extremely worn around the corners 😮
Played a few games recently and agree 100% with Mike. I want to recommend this game but really can't unless you're a gloomhaven veteran and like tiny solo games
One thing that I am looking forward to are expansions as the limited amount of components makes it easy to expand. More campaigns, missions, monsters, items and characters are obvious. I can also see a campaing designed for two players.
I would love to buy it but that card quality is horrendous
Chris, you flew all the way out to the DTMA just to courier Buttons & Bugs to Mike? I’m not sure that was a cost savings over him buying his own copy.
The scenarios are incredibly tight, Many of my plays were down to the luck of the dice, a case of constantly replaying the same scenario until the rolls went in my favour which made the game tedious, a great achievement in what they have done here but man is it hard if dice hate you! No matter how good you combo your cards……I had a much easier time with the first Gloomhaven campaign and really enjoyed that….this on the other hand I’ll be moving on.
I was looking forward to something like „this could be great as an easy introduction into the Gloomhaven system.“ First try this, then Jaws, then the full gane. Looks like this is not the case.
Great review! Also, I like that the Dune Popcorn Bucket is casually displayed in the background...😅
The complaints about the die don't make much sense. Yes, Gloomhaven doesn't use dice, but it uses RNG nonetheless. Whether it's a die or a stack of cards don't matter much. If the combat deck got reshuffled after every draw there would be no difference to using dice. As is past draws do influence future draws, unlike a die. But soon enough one of the 2 reshuffle cards get drawn and resets the "memory" of the deck. Overall the difference to throwing a die isn't that big.
For a small compact micro version that can't have big stacks of cards using that +0- die is pretty perfect to approximate the original result distribution.
Yes, it's just a tactical puzzle game. Which is also what X-haven is. It's packaged in theme, but the "story" of the campaigns is generally weak (a bit less so in Frosthaven, but people complain about the outpost phase).
Buttons and Bugs just boils it down more to the underlying puzzle.
The rulebook size is also pretty irrelevant. The main target group of players is going to be x-haven players. They already know the rules. Understanding B&B is a couple of minutes to see the differences for this micro version. I'm actually impressed how much they kept from the main games in this micro edition.
Overall I found this whole review a bit weird. B&B was talked about as if it was another JOTL.
Everything that was criticized is part of making this micro design work. The A/B cards, the die, the size, etc...
This game is for people who enjoy the tactical puzzles of X-haven games and want to enjoy that either solo anywhere or on a plane or otherwise travelling. Or you just bring it to a coffee shop on a lazy Sunday afternoon.
B&B fully delivers in its design goals. As with everything else this is not going to appeal to everyone, but all the critiques that are based on what the design goals require don't make sense to me.
I disagree with some thoughts. About material, I think it’s right for the price and the quality you get. Yes cards are a bit curved, but bending them with your hands in the opposite direction for few seconds, solve this issue. Print is good, card quality is enough, you don’t need to shuffle them, never, and this is not secondary. I find very pleasant solving puzzle, and this game give me Gloomhaven vibe at the right compromise. More, controlling one character in a game like this is much more comfortable than two in solo! The only 2 things I complain are: they should have used cards in more creative ways, combining two cards for example to have more complex dungeon (use tarot size should be appreciated too), and the rules. This game indeed is immediate for who already knows Gloomhaven rules (and I know them), but a bit steep for novice. Especially for a solitaire. I really appreciate it btw and I hope in similar initiatives. Thanks for the video in any case, I always appreciate your content.
Shout out from Reno, NV! lol
Why do the cards look worked up like 20 year old unsleeved magic cards?
Seems like it's built of the same stock as the cards in the full size games. Jaws was my first entry into the series and I love the games but all the character ability cards looked worn to crap on the edges after a few scenarios. The cards are pretty low quality. I guess they kept that same "quality" to be able to keep the price down.
After about 160 games with no sleeves between Gloomhaven and Frosthaven I don't understand this at all. I have no marks on any of my cards and just overhand shuffle. @@Upsh1ft
Is Mike not allowed in the studio anymore?
He moved away
Not until he apologises for what he’s done…
Oh this title was fantastic... ;)
How many rocks do you have to hit in this version? 😂
The Aggro Cragheart
Do do do you have it
Hey some of us from Reno can read
Hey what's with this with calling gloomhaven b&b a pocketable game?! This game is as pocketable as of gloomhaven is transportable. Cargo pantsable maybe... Still I want it cause it's backpackable. Lol
“Stop shrinking games! Stop expanding them! Leave them the size they are!! I don’t try to make my height taller… “ says Tom from his soap box.
Kidding… he’s right. A lot of these seem like shameless (and thoughtless) cash grabs. Don’t be lazy, be creative.
That… and Tom is like 6’4” so he definitely doesn’t need to make his height taller. 😂😂😂
no rulebook?
You can easily PDF the online rulebook. It's a *haven game, the rules are extensive, there's no way they'd fit in their size box.
Reno represent! 😁
In other words this is a good game that shoes better all limitations big Gloomhaven already has.
Weird.
Also: team easy for me, too
I think some of the Tiny Epic games are better than this one but this still looks fun.
I find tom's "I play everything on easy" comment interesting. Especially with video games and RPG's. If you play baulders gate 3 on easy you only need to use one spell the whole time and you are, basically, missing half of the game - which is about exploring the different interactions of spells and abilities. Easy mode negates all of that.
As someone who always plays on hard mode I think you're not missing anything as long as you're having fun.
Why would someone only use one spell instead of trying all sorts of stuff just because it’s on easy? That’s a min maxer nerd mindset.
It’s that in games I want just have fun, I don’t want always a challenge.
As someone that plays games on hard, I 100% agree
Missing rules from the box and awful colour coded wheels/cubes make this very disappointing, even at this price..
No respect for Mike for having to play gloomhaven on easy difficulty 🤪
I'm guessing the initiative roll always has 1/3 chance to be any of the three, so it goes around? Don't see how that is more swingy than the original draw from 8 or so cards, at least now you can see the odds all the time.
❤
I recall Mike saying he had Gloomhaven twice and sold it both times because he couldn't get into it. Now he talks like a Gloomhaven fan/expert lol. I'm not surprised his score is so low.
Maybe milking Gloomhaven isn’t the best idea?
Does fedora guy day M'lady very often?
40 pages of rules for 20 min play.. no thanks
20 minutes per session. It’s a campaign game. You can play it like a roguelike, if you try to complete the campaign with each character on multiple difficulty levels. That gives you potentially dozens of hours of gaming.
For anyone who has played Gloomhaven, most of the rules are the same anyway, so it’s not really a 40 minute investment.
awkward review
Cephalofair has just become uninteresting at this point. Oh well, GH 1.0 was a good run while it lasted.
What are you looking for out of curiosity?