This Kickstarter had the highest number of previews labeled as "Reviews" that I've ever seen. Even people who previously didn't call them that before. Kind of obnoxious.
In a way, I think that’s why I backed away from the Kickstarter. Only reason I can give. Because from the start I was convinced this was a game for me. It looked special. But I have so little faith in paid “reviews” and all the hype, that I thought I’ll just wait until some real reviews start coming. Now after seeing this real review, I do wish I’d stuck with it and backed the kickstarter. I’ll definitely be buying this at retail.
@@cardboard_cave I'd rather wait for retail in all cases than go for the kickstarter. Only kickstarter I backed was Terraforming Mars Preludes 2 (this year) because we love the game and knew we were going to get it anyway. What does bug me is that it's so hard to get the kickstarter stuff after the fact... like I don't care so much about the kickstart components, but if it had extra cards and expansions and whatnot, like please make it available!
"Octopus, they're not like deadly to humans really..." Hooboy 😬. Sorry I have to say this, but the blue ring octopus very firmly is on the deadly to humans list. They're tiny and pretty, so people pick them up, but their venom is no joke
@@thedicetower The blue rings are venomous, a big difference. And yeah the chances of getting bit is super low, and I'm being a big wet blanket about this. But I prefer the side of caution when it comes to wildlife that can hurt you
There’s a fan made solo mode on BGG if you want to check it out (we went with Roboshark and Octobot). Full disclosure I made it so I’m biased but I’ve been having fun with it.
My son and I played this seven times in a row the first evening and then thought about it a lot before we had a chance to get together again and play it three more times. We love this game and haven't even tried the back of the mat or the expansions. GREAT GAME!!
My wife and I play a lot of two player games (including some deduction ones). There are so many other two player games we’d rather play. Great production, but after a handful of plays it boils down to just not being that fun. We would pick the recent Pagan: Fate of Roanoke over this every time. This is a 5.5 out of 10 for us.
I like it but without expansions its pretty easy for the octopus to win, you just sit on a 5 defence spot (rocks) and eat. the shark will need a lot of luck to win
I’m gonna jump out on a limb here and say the designer of this game is nothing short of a genius. With that said, when I gloss over during the rules explanation to a game that is this interesting…this game will be forgotten about.
Regarding the shark attack being a rock paper scissors game, I have actually found it to not be the case. The shark would try to guess which card is the most beneficial to the octopus at that stage and play the counter card. Then from the octopus' pov they need to think whether they should play the most beneficial card or another card to trick the shark. There is definitely some strategy and thinking involved
I really hated my play of this. Not only the ending being a random scissors paper rock, but also the shark is on a harsh timer and gets severely penalised for attacking blind, strongly discouraging that kind of play. There was so minimal strategy, and no player interaction, that the octopus just did some learning, while the shark did their own thing. It is a gorgeous production, but the gameplay so half-baked.
Your experience echos some BGG reviews. I'm surprised at the contrast of reviews and glad I didn't back it but wouldn't be opposed to trying someone else's copy.
A suggested simple variant to stop the octopus form rushing to eat all food while waiting in a corner is that when you use the card "Fast learning", you cannot learn two food cards. Maximum one and must go on the discard pile, not the top of draw pile.
Did you guys play the same game as my group?! Out of 10 people that played it, only 1 liked it. The way it ends with "rock paper scissors" completely kills the experience. Game needs a major reworking of the ending. As the octopus, just rush food and it's a 70% win rate. Also, the designer has an army of people attacking anyone who gives a bad review or tries to sell their copy. I don't understand the hype this game is getting at all.
I enjoyed the confrontation rules, they remind me of the fight rules of Fury of Dracula (rock paper scissors where each has a different effect is more or less efficient depending on the situation of the board and in the hands of the player). Also, it basically means that statistically, the shark has to fight the octopus 2 times to win the game. The real criticism I would make is the length of the game; it's gorgeous, but it is slightly too long for the experience it offers (which you may find it enjoyable - I do)
Just want to clarify that you tried to sell a counterfeit copy on the BoardGameGeek marketplace and the publisher asked you to remove the illegal listing.
The only times I’ve seen anyone go after someone selling a copy is when they tried to sell one of the many counterfeit copies that went around before the game even delivered to backers.
I can't get around those high scroes from you guys. Played this and I don;t see playing it again anytime soon. The game is plain boring, the shark depends solely on luck of the draw, whileas octopus should stick in some corner and go for fast learning to get two cards as quickly as possible, eat to extend the draw and go for the win. Our games came to basically luck - whether shark will pull the red dice before Octopuss will eat the final piece or not. From the design it looks clever, but while playing it... i just don't see the fun in it.
What’s your stance on other heavily asymmetric 1vs1 games? In my mind most if not all of them can be summarized like so. The interesting part lies in how players interact with each other and prolong the inevitable.
@@SebastianZarzycki but here there is minimal to no interaction that is relevant, octopuss is just trying to hide (while learning is costing A LOT of uncovering) and shark depends on the luck of the draw. I had a game where in rounds when he needed to atrack he drew current only... unfortunate I like Pagan, like Raptor and Harrow County to just name first that come to my mind
@@japanczyk We must be either playing a different game or playing the game differently. We've had some preliminary (and similar) misgivings about how it plays, but after several sessions, it truly revealed the masterpiece of its interlocked design to us. There is much more control over the gamestate than it initially seems and Shark playing well can mitigate a lot of bad draw / bad roll during a critical moment. It's a fantastic tango of tempo compression and manipulating the boardstate, a knife fight in a booth. Sure, it can never be as deep as Netrunner and there's a limit of what it can do, but what it does, it not only does extremely well, but it also does it better than 99.99% of the rest 2p games. This is a 9/10, easily. Pagan is decent, but it isn't playing in the same league.
![KSI - Dirty [Official Visualiser]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VoDh1h1dPUE/mqdefault.jpg)
''' my octopus teacher ''' is what you are looking for !! fantastic documentary :)
Thank you all for this review. Sounds very cool, and I'd love to play it.
Where's the "Top 10 2-player asymmetrical games" list
Tom: It's a masterpiece
Also Tom: 8.5
It's a masterpiece as in the pieces are masterfully crafted...
I'll show myself out
I love this game. Im super happy I backed it.
My Octopus Teacher. Great documentary. Also sad.
The production value is incredible… exept for the inlay :D
It's MIKE!
My Octopus Teacher is a masterpiece!
This Kickstarter had the highest number of previews labeled as "Reviews" that I've ever seen. Even people who previously didn't call them that before. Kind of obnoxious.
In a way, I think that’s why I backed away from the Kickstarter. Only reason I can give. Because from the start I was convinced this was a game for me. It looked special. But I have so little faith in paid “reviews” and all the hype, that I thought I’ll just wait until some real reviews start coming. Now after seeing this real review, I do wish I’d stuck with it and backed the kickstarter. I’ll definitely be buying this at retail.
@@cardboard_cave I'd rather wait for retail in all cases than go for the kickstarter. Only kickstarter I backed was Terraforming Mars Preludes 2 (this year) because we love the game and knew we were going to get it anyway. What does bug me is that it's so hard to get the kickstarter stuff after the fact... like I don't care so much about the kickstart components, but if it had extra cards and expansions and whatnot, like please make it available!
The game is beautiful! Would love to try it sometime.
When is the retail edition expected to be available? I can't find it available for preorder in any of the usual UK stores I buy games from.
"Octopus, they're not like deadly to humans really..."
Hooboy 😬. Sorry I have to say this, but the blue ring octopus very firmly is on the deadly to humans list. They're tiny and pretty, so people pick them up, but their venom is no joke
Sure, they are poisonous, but I just looked it up and it's less than 20 lives total. Tragic, but much lower than shark attacks.
@@thedicetower The blue rings are venomous, a big difference. And yeah the chances of getting bit is super low, and I'm being a big wet blanket about this. But I prefer the side of caution when it comes to wildlife that can hurt you
Only had 2 plays so far but definitely like it. Indeed the production quality is off the charts, those tiles are amazing.
Well done Wonderbow Games ❤ You deserve all the praise for this gem 🥳🐙🐬
SO who's gonna design the solo mode Sharktopus for us?
There’s a fan made solo mode on BGG if you want to check it out (we went with Roboshark and Octobot).
Full disclosure I made it so I’m biased but I’ve been having fun with it.
My son and I played this seven times in a row the first evening and then thought about it a lot before we had a chance to get together again and play it three more times. We love this game and haven't even tried the back of the mat or the expansions. GREAT GAME!!
My wife and I play a lot of two player games (including some deduction ones). There are so many other two player games we’d rather play. Great production, but after a handful of plays it boils down to just not being that fun. We would pick the recent Pagan: Fate of Roanoke over this every time. This is a 5.5 out of 10 for us.
I agree. Raptor offers far more strategy and reaction playing. For hidden movement, I'd rather play Mind MGMT or Hunt the Ravager
Yes, my wife and I have played a couple of times and we have some concerns about replay values long term.
Congrats to Wonderbow Games 😊
Well deserved scores, this is a great game. Can't wait to play with the beautiful final production version.
I like it but without expansions its pretty easy for the octopus to win, you just sit on a 5 defence spot (rocks) and eat. the shark will need a lot of luck to win
Was debating throughout the commentary if Tom was giving it a 10 or a 9.5 based on his feedback… …
Good point. It's a very high 8.5, and it can grow. I'm very stingy giving out "9"s or "10"s on first blush. We shall see!
I’m gonna jump out on a limb here and say the designer of this game is nothing short of a genius. With that said, when I gloss over during the rules explanation to a game that is this interesting…this game will be forgotten about.
That was a great documentary, I had seen it previously.
Regarding the shark attack being a rock paper scissors game, I have actually found it to not be the case. The shark would try to guess which card is the most beneficial to the octopus at that stage and play the counter card. Then from the octopus' pov they need to think whether they should play the most beneficial card or another card to trick the shark. There is definitely some strategy and thinking involved
But could still come down to a RPS when the octopus picks a less optimal card just because they suspect the shark would aim for the most optimal card.
this is rock paper scissors
@@japanczyk no
I really hated my play of this. Not only the ending being a random scissors paper rock, but also the shark is on a harsh timer and gets severely penalised for attacking blind, strongly discouraging that kind of play. There was so minimal strategy, and no player interaction, that the octopus just did some learning, while the shark did their own thing. It is a gorgeous production, but the gameplay so half-baked.
Your experience echos some BGG reviews. I'm surprised at the contrast of reviews and glad I didn't back it but wouldn't be opposed to trying someone else's copy.
Aussie detected, hates sharks and octopi
I don't see why Octopus would not go fast learning and dig into the food as soon as possible.
A suggested simple variant to stop the octopus form rushing to eat all food while waiting in a corner is that when you use the card "Fast learning", you cannot learn two food cards. Maximum one and must go on the discard pile, not the top of draw pile.
I'm hunting this octopus since I've seen it the 1st time.... I'm so sorry I missed the kickstarter...
Not my cup of tea.
It reminds me of "Raptor" and I don't think I want a second one of this style of game.
IMO Raptor is much better gameplay and strategy than Kelp.
Love me some raptor
Raptor is definitely better
Raptor gives you the same fun experience in an even more distilled package.
People always get too hyped up because of production values alone.
Did you listen to the review?
Looks interesting enough, but there's gameplay locked behind the concluded kickstarter, which just murders my inner completionist goblin.
You can get everything though, so it may not be as well bundled but it’s all available
Did you guys play the same game as my group?! Out of 10 people that played it, only 1 liked it. The way it ends with "rock paper scissors" completely kills the experience. Game needs a major reworking of the ending. As the octopus, just rush food and it's a 70% win rate. Also, the designer has an army of people attacking anyone who gives a bad review or tries to sell their copy. I don't understand the hype this game is getting at all.
I'm with you. I really disliked this game.
I enjoyed the confrontation rules, they remind me of the fight rules of Fury of Dracula (rock paper scissors where each has a different effect is more or less efficient depending on the situation of the board and in the hands of the player). Also, it basically means that statistically, the shark has to fight the octopus 2 times to win the game.
The real criticism I would make is the length of the game; it's gorgeous, but it is slightly too long for the experience it offers (which you may find it enjoyable - I do)
it turns out some people like certain games, some people don't. It's not that deep
Just want to clarify that you tried to sell a counterfeit copy on the BoardGameGeek marketplace and the publisher asked you to remove the illegal listing.
The only times I’ve seen anyone go after someone selling a copy is when they tried to sell one of the many counterfeit copies that went around before the game even delivered to backers.
max 6/10
I can't get around those high scroes from you guys. Played this and I don;t see playing it again anytime soon. The game is plain boring, the shark depends solely on luck of the draw, whileas octopus should stick in some corner and go for fast learning to get two cards as quickly as possible, eat to extend the draw and go for the win. Our games came to basically luck - whether shark will pull the red dice before Octopuss will eat the final piece or not.
From the design it looks clever, but while playing it... i just don't see the fun in it.
What’s your stance on other heavily asymmetric 1vs1 games? In my mind most if not all of them can be summarized like so. The interesting part lies in how players interact with each other and prolong the inevitable.
@@SebastianZarzycki but here there is minimal to no interaction that is relevant, octopuss is just trying to hide (while learning is costing A LOT of uncovering) and shark depends on the luck of the draw. I had a game where in rounds when he needed to atrack he drew current only... unfortunate
I like Pagan, like Raptor and Harrow County to just name first that come to my mind
@@japanczyk We must be either playing a different game or playing the game differently. We've had some preliminary (and similar) misgivings about how it plays, but after several sessions, it truly revealed the masterpiece of its interlocked design to us. There is much more control over the gamestate than it initially seems and Shark playing well can mitigate a lot of bad draw / bad roll during a critical moment. It's a fantastic tango of tempo compression and manipulating the boardstate, a knife fight in a booth. Sure, it can never be as deep as Netrunner and there's a limit of what it can do, but what it does, it not only does extremely well, but it also does it better than 99.99% of the rest 2p games. This is a 9/10, easily. Pagan is decent, but it isn't playing in the same league.