Moebius are intentionally not as fleshed out as past villains because in a way they're meant to be a commentary on the ruling class who abuses their power for the sake of abusing their power. Sometimes there is no grandiose motive or reasoning, and that's ok. It's a greedy, hellish world and they work perfectly in the context of 3's story in my opinion. Great vid, Zano!
Little disappointed you didn't mention Cap'n Triton, Man o the Seas and friendly neighbourhood Moebius. Beyond him just being an unbelievably fun character, I think he also explores the benefits and shortcomings of being Moebius, of living forever. He was someone who sought a life of fun and adventure, enjoying a good scrap, good food and good company all in equal turn. And he enjoyed them all for an unknowable amount of time, living multiple lifetimes to the fullest. But, all that time spent, meant very little in the end. Not just because of the ending of the story, but because there was no one left to remember it, not even Trition himself. I've always believed his memory issues were less regular dementia, and more his still human mind struggling to continue after operating for such an endlessly long time, likely even beyond what other Moebius have experienced. Living in an endless now may mean endless opportunity, but it ultimately amounts to endless stagnation.
Triton is one of my favorite characters in the game. But he doesn’t ever take on an antagonistic role, which is why I didn’t include him. If I ever make a heroes video he will certainly be there
Moebius being generally shallow villains also just shows what the endless now does to people, there’s no growth, no change, people devolve into their worst selves, and Z X and Y as the embodiment of this it makes sense they would be even more shallow, especially X and Y who are really just extensions of Z, almost like puppets or clones. That’s why I feel those 3 characters make one really good character when looked at as just one character.
Nice video. Just want to say that Shania was brilliantly written for a villain. Because not only did the game show the opposite side of the natural life exemplified in the City, but her world view views the life within Moebius, specifically the life within Keves and Agnus cycles because her backstory screams a second chance at life. She was driven to a life where she was pushed off by other's wants, and not her version of her life. I saw her story having a heavy implication on her choices within the game much like N. D's role was also great because it's not only annoying like Mumkhar/ Metal face, but he is given an exit together with Joran because they are like opposites, a strong D and a weak but kind J. They created a harmony that shows strength when they interlink, much like human society. They much like in sync except the last fight when Joran realized his strength. X and Y was also good because I viewed them like a trinity processor of Ontos, Pneuma and Logos. Since they are pure moebius and came from Z, I think their deaths don't need cutscenes because they aren't humans that display desire. I saw the Moebius that are formerly humans as humans that had strong desires which caused them to display those desires when they died. Since X and Y did not have those desires as pure Moebius, they did not display those desires. Z also is my most favorite villain in the series. Not only is Z the embodiment of Moebius, but he really doesn't need to do anything because he already created a twisted world where the other Moebius will carry on the hellish world that was created. He also displays a very powerful demeanor because he acts like an audience to what is happening. Many people didn't like his "unconnectedness" to the events in the game, but I felt that he believes he can change things as he wishes to since he believs his own power, which came from humanity's will. Speaking of this will, I think he thinks that Ouroboros won't be able to change things seeing as they are a small bunch compared to "humanity" which he is the embodiment, which became his biggest miscalculation. Overall, I think having a main villain of being a "concept or a god in Aionios" rather than a person makes the stakes journey of xc3 even more heavier because it's like they are against an entire system working in the world; making it harder to destroy than a single powerful will. Sorry if its long as I wanted to share my thoughts and agreements with Moebius. Nice video!
I think one of the biggest things that people tend to misinterpret is that not all Moebius are of equal importance. They act like every single one of them has to be this complex, interesting character with a personal story and motivation, while in reality most of them are just Z's grunts keeping the world how they want it to be. People will be mad at B, H or R because they are shallow, but that's the point. You can't have 25 villains (in XC you have some of the Faced Mechon, Egil and Zanza, and in 2 it's just Torna, Bana and Amalthus). Think of the extra Moebius as your run of the mill mechon, those who don't really impact the story, and treat as actual villains the ones that do. Doing this, we end up with good villains and/or characters the likes of C, D, J, M, N, S, Triton and Z. Because yeah, X and Y are just executed awfully. Also, some of the grunts even have great charisma for the generic bad guy role they are meant to fulfill. Some examples I can think of are K, I, O and P (to an extent) or F
I kinda wish you mentioned Irma/Moebius I from Fiona's Hero Quest. I really liked her because it showed that the Moebius were complicated characters as well. Irma became friends with Fiona and she believed that she would only grow stronger through tragedy, and although what she did was really bad, Fiona didn't want her to be hurt because she was still a friend to her. Irma also saw her as a friend, and felt bad for what she did and wished to die. It was a very complicated and somewhat toxic relationship, which sorta connected to me personally as I've had toxic friends before.
One of my favorite hero quests. But sense it wasn’t really part of the main story I kept it out. But I’m heavily considering making a video where I rank all the hero quests.
I don't think the Moebius villains, even the small ones are given enough credit. While many are one note they are used to develop the characters in their respective colonies such as the impact Valdi's one had or the rivalry with Ashera's, some of these consuls like the aftermentioned Ashera one don't even care about Uroboros instead being too focused on their own affairs and ego. I think it also helps that they all have very stellar VA's who put their all into hamming up the individual Moebius, I don't remember the names of those moebius but I do remember how they talked and their individual scenes. On Consul D I think something that really helps him is how much of a contrast he is to Joran, while Joran failed in so many lifetimes driving him mad, D flourished under the system. We also see an interesting pattern in how Moebius are created through both, both J and D found an element of freedom before becoming Moebius, J became more brave then any other cycle while D began to kill outside the cycle and Z is quick to take any random element out of the picture. X and Y are odd, I like them alot due to personality but I do believe they deserved ending cutscenes, and the fact X just disappears if you don't do certain quests is truly bizarre.
I actually really enjoy the schlocky cartoon villain in moebius too, and its all because of ONE LINE from zed. That whether youre fighting for survival or enjoying yourself its all just to cope with existance. The dumb power ranger villains are TRYING to delude themselves. Yorun did it too eventually to drop the act. N isnt haming it up but even how he acts is an example of that
So, I'm still watching, but at 5:00 I already felt like saying something. Depicting X and Y's deaths like that was not only *perfect* but the only way it could have happened. It actually baffles me how many people missed that given how strongly the themes of this game are presented. X and Y are a part of Z. They're extensions of him when he was created by Origin, it's why they're the only true Moebius we encounter. Cause every other Moebius were humans that were turned into Moebius at some point. So, why were their deaths perfect? The biggest theme in Xenoblade Chronicles 3 is time. It's about time moving forward regardless of how scary and unpredictable the future might be. For X and Y, as the extensions of Z, they are the ones that truly want time to remain still, cause if time starts moving they'll no longer exist. So when we run into them in the final dungeon, that's exactly what's happening. The closer we get to Z, the closer we are to getting time to move again. The less control that they have for time to remain still. They don't get a cutscene for their deaths cause if they did, they'd be getting what they want. It truly gives the players that visceral feeling that even in their deaths, time is going to move forward. It's also why I praise the final dungeon and the final boss for being so long. With Origin being nearly 80-90% of chapter 7, it's really showing you how desperate they are to keep you in the endless now and to not let time move forward. It's a war of attrition. But those are my feelings, and I know a lot of people expect the super cool death cutscenes.. So I understand the disappointment. The rest of your video was pretty much everything I agree with and took from my own playthroughs so yeah. Good job.
Fun fact: For X's final battle, if you don't complete Eunie's side story, you fight some random monsters instead. I feel like the same thing would have happened for Y, but you wouldn't be able to see it anyway since Mio's side story is plot mandatory.
Here is my idea of the Aionios as the head of a person. I like to think of the moebius that lead the colonies as a physical manifestation of 'Doupt' itself and also X, Y and Z as those who create the structure that makes these doupts so overwhelming and powerful, aka the person lacking confidence and having lots of self doubt. The fictional war between Keves and Agnus are actually are 2 different choices/decisions that the person can make, but moebius/doupt makes the decisions clash with each other which leads to the person not making up their mind and staying where they are ultimately deciding to do nothing at all while these decisions clash in their mind. X's Ranking system might be how the person ultimately decides which decision is better at the end of the day, but there is maybe such a great ear that it still might be the wrong decision to make because they lack the confidence to make a good deciosion that the 'Doubt' ultimately tears this possible path appart aka reaching Gold Rank. Y's Flameclocks might be 'the need' to make a decision, but ultimately being unable to make one as it stretches into an endless inner conflict. The longer it takes to make a decision the more confident the person loses in themself and that feeds into the inner doubts that make the decision harder which creates a cycle of ideas clashing and nothing seeming to move forward except the mind breaking apart from that pressure. It also creates the illusion of only 1 decision being able to be made which also forces a clash between the decisions/ideas. Z is the ultimate pillar of doubt and lack of confidence. The Mark of Z is what ends up making a decision impossible to make for that person as it's a sign of being rushed to make a decision soon. Think about not having made up what to do after you've finished school even after you hold your degree in your hand. You didn't think about it and it ultimately comes back to bite you as you realised that life is moving forward without you making you fall into despair. You have a limited time to make a decision ,like getting a job or going to college, and you rush ideas through your mind ultimately falling into despair which is what the world of Aionios is. The Endless Now. It's the illusion of being 'endless', but it makes you slowly break appart. Just my little idea of what Aionios, Moebius and even the colonies might be. I mixed it a bit with my current state of life with this interpretation. I liked Moebius actually.
Unfortunatly, people tend to fall into the bandwagon of what "good writing" is these days. Lately, it's been widely accepted that a villain is only good if they are relatable to the veiwer and is treated like a second main character of their own story. They think it's the only way to write now and just ignore a whole spectrum of stories and themes that do not call for such character just cause it doesn't give them the big feels.
I agree. I love Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and its villains, but I don't think they are the best just for being written in a sympathetic way. I think well-written villains should test the heroes and their convictions while pushing them to be their best. You don't need them to be sympathetic for that to be achieved. Sympathetic villains have their place, but they aren't the only kind worth writing.
they aren't good character at all though. We want Bad guys to be bad guys but Moebius characters is Non existent (just like all of the XC3 characters). They are the definition of Have bad guy. Remember Kefka he isn't sympathetic but fan love the shit out of him. Why because we get to SEE why he is evil same with Metal face of XC1 we don't sympathize with him either yet he is a fan favorite of the series. XC3 falls for the biggest sin. Tell but not show. They tell us they are E.V.I.L. but all we see is them show up once die to us after they send goons. the finally boss is just a big as why? Everything turning out to be essentially a Dream realy destroys the story while also robbing us of BOTH the great endings of XC1 and XC2 while ALSO denying us the Promissed Crossover of the two worlds that was supposed to occur after their post games that would have been the true XC3... A complete an utter waste of a sequel hated by 75% of the fans.
Great take on this! I find it especially noteworthy how special it is that this game makes the heroes want to destroy the world, not the villain(s) - it's very refreshing now that I think about it. I also like Moebius as the villains and don't think they're actually that badly executed (except for X and Y, I completely agree on your points regarding them) since they all individually tackle a different aspect of Aionios that would make total sense to occur in such a scenario.
I know this is my second comment on a 3 month old video but this just came to me. The first phase of the final battle takes place in a theatre, now obviously this is a easy to spot metaphor, the stage of life. But I feel people are not going further with this. As it explains why Z never leaves. Aionios, is a grand performance, and Z is the playwright, he never actually gets involved in the play, he simply writes the script or the flow. Thus he never leaves the theatre, X and Y I believe represent the directors, making Zs script come to fruition, Y making the flame cloak system, and X coming up with colony ranks. The people of aionios are then the actors of this performance, acting or fighting for the amusement of the audience, That being non-true Moebius. Now Moebius though do interact with the world, they are not passive. So I believe this represents (now it’s been a bit since I have done drama class so I hope I’m not mixing this up) poor theatre, specifically the an aspect of poor theatre, where the barrier between the audience and actors is non existent, meaning the two groups interact during the performance. (Someone’s probably already made these connections before me but I’ve seen no-one say it so I hope I have not made myself look the fool)
I do think that Moebius as a whole really compliments the whole theme of the the game (and by extension the series) of the ability to choose and the need to strive for the future without being shackled by the past. they're already created by the collectives unconious doubts and fears of the people of Bionis and Alrest, and on top of that it seems the way Z creates most (I imagine Dirk is an outlier due to his sadisim) of his consols is by slowly breaking them down and making them submit into they're fears and despair. And while yes Moebius can be cartoonishly evil, I do think it helps prop up the more disturbing members and the countless amounts of crimes they've committed.
While playing the game I had an idea and I developed it a lot: what if Eunie, Taion, Lanz and Sena also had a Consul counterpart like Noah and Mio? I dont make videos and dont have any plans on doing them, but I feel like I did a good job (my opinion only though) trying to include them as a part of Moebius
While on paper it will look cool but that will make it repetitive and will rather hurt N and M's role in the story... See N and M worked because they have a significant backstory and was built throughout the game it even extended to Future Redeemed... Having the other 4 have Mobeius not only makes it repetitive but also removes contrast and variety.. Imho their connection with the other Moebius like Eunie's fear with D, Sena with Shania (altho this one is kinda half-baked), Lanz with Joran, Taion is really not hard tied to Mobieus but Nimue is a victim of the cycle as well... This gives spice to the overall plot and makes their part of the story more significant in a way that it's unique to their own...
Finally beat it. I loved Xenoblade Cronicles the whole concept of it as a whole I think 3 is the perfect way to end it. We know there is more to it with the DLC, but man what a blast. Mobeius were amazing imo.
X and Y don't have a death cutscene nor a real characterization because they are parts of Z. They were born along with him and you can see them among the various form Z takes in the final fight. You could argue they are just different personas of the same being, Moebius.
7:27 That, and they should've made Sena's side story actually relate to Sena in any meaningful way. It’s basically just Ghondor's Hero Quest. Also, one more W for Shania: Future Redeemed implies that she might be related to Reyn, so make of that what you will.
I still think it matters to sena, because Shania is very much a dark reflection of Sena's own inferiority complex, just as N is Noah's dark reflection. also Shania is very much DISTANTLY related to Reyn, simply because EVERYONE in house Reid was related to reyn through a common ancestor.
@Detective Thursday Still, Sena could've done more. Like deal the final blow to Shania, for instance. It's her side story, why does Ghondor have to hog the spotlight?
@@lucassworldofletsplays9270 I remember a quest in the game, though can't really remember which one, which would have fit for Sena's side quest, with how involved and related to her it ends up being, so instead of Ghondor having the tirkin quest as her ascension quest, it could've been what is Sena's current side quest, making the tirkin quest a generic one, while making the other one which I really wish I could remember Sena's side quest. At least, this how I think could have been instead.
Saturday comic villians? I think everyone missing the point of thier flat characters They represent Depravity and Despair. I have said, time and time again. DESPAIR CAN DRIVE YOU INSANE! And that think is very prevelant in both Shania, Joren and N. As you said, and that is a good reflection. So what does my Depravity line has to do with anything? People of Mobieus threw thier morality for small joy. They act annoying because there is nothing left, a moment in Real Life when One cannot see what else there is to move on from. They are deeper then one can see but they are not meant to be liked anyway I agree that X and Y could have been more fleshed out, mostly caused it imply they were creations of Z and not people made Mobieus but they represent the Lack of Empathy side of Z himself. Throwing away life, like Y and creating a system that is never ending like Y. And it goes back to yoru final say about the World being the Main Villian and the Real Life Reflection, people are flawed and people have desire The World of Xenoblade became a world of never moving forward, thus Mobieus embraced such Depravity. Z himself made me flat but as he said "it is after all an essence of my being", he existed merely to fuel a fearful Desire of People that he felt was the ultimate example of peopel embracing Depravity and Despair finally, No I dont think D should have been more promintent. he was unforgiveable and died a fitting death. But to me he represented the true Depravity that Z wanted to symbolize, he did not go insane of Despair because he was already embracing hsi Depravity. He was the perfect Hated Mobieus, because he was already embracing that Lives were meaningless and meant to be culled.
Hey, pretty early here so maybe I can catch you. I agree with your points for the most part. Moebius, or more particularly Z himself, is not a villain manipulating people so much as he is enabling the people of Aionios to get what they want: eternity, without the permanence of death and loss. Now, to your point about how N couldn't have been the final boss, my thought is that he could have been, but instead of having a twist boss have the final reveal be that Z is nothing but an AI in control of Origin and Aionios. Reveal that it literally has no power to fight back or resist, that anyone could have destroyed it at any time... But that everyone for the preceding thousands of years have always, invariably, accepted the status quo of the Endless Now rather than reintroduce the permanence of loss. The party realize that destroying Z means separating their worlds permanently, and are forced to come to terms with it. At least to me, that would make the bitter in the bittersweet ending that much more poignant, as the party isn't given the time to say a real goodbye or pass keepsakes. They're forced to step forward into an uncertain new world, or else the Endless Now will continue ad infinitum.
That would of been cool, but like I said I was only going off what the game gave me. But again everyone’s opinions are subjective and it was really cool to hear your idea
As we know now with the dlc Future redeemed. Z don't offered N eternity in exchange of destroying the city he fighter for, e did in exchange for a treaty with the city for them both stop to fight each other an endless now for the city too. But Alpha as planing to delete Aionios along with the Mobius and it's commanded soldiers and crate a new world with only with the people of the city. So N needed to Stop Alpha their fight destroyed the city and killed N's son . The original purpose of the city was to liberates everyone from the system so it couldn't Go with Alpha neither stay in the now ignoring the never ending wars between Leves and Agnes people.
I think the issue with moebius for a lot of people really is what you went over at the start- even if the greater narrative and N/M/Shania are strong, the glut of boring moebius villains sours a lot of people on them
It's be like if we got a bunch of sidequests in 1 that were voiced where you had some faced mechon going "boy gee howdy I love eating children. Munchy munchy children." It would take the impact away from Xord and Metal Face. Also I personally think the moebius outfits look dumb. It works for Triton because he's a goofy guy, and N/M have unique ones, but the regular ones just look like even goofier power rangers.
Although Moebius is great as a concept for a villain and the execution is kind of disapointing, I still prefer it to the boring ass "i am an evil god look at me muahahahah" aka Zanza. Still nothing beats the antagonists from xenoblade 2. For me the ranking for the series is: 1. Xenoblade Chronicles 2 2. Xenoblade Chronicles 3 3. Xenoblade Chronicles (im really feeling it) (probably the most unpopular opinion but i stand for it)
Xenoblade Chronicles: Endless cycle to prevent the world from evolving, everything else is a product of "god having fun for the lolz, telling you that you suck". Xenoblade Chronicles 3: Endless cycle to prevent the world from evolving, everything else is a product of "god having fun for the lolz, telling you that you suck".
My problem with your analysis with Shania is that why didn’t just stand up to her mom? Also she had support from both her father (which also makes shania mom going against the will of her husband and daughter) and ghondor and she had talent, she was just weak. Also her goal is just bad because even if you reach gold rank, moebius just harvest them and that’s even if shania makes it to gold rank (see Jordan).
How many kids stand up to their abusive parents? Also both her father and her sister died. And Ghondor, while meaning well, is really bad when it comes to words, since she is always aggressive and abrasive in her wording. Which caused Shania to completely misunderstand her, once depression got hold of her.
@@MrSupersmash93 She still didn't directly face her mom, because she didn't have the courage. Until she got the power of Moebius that is. It's much easier taking someone down from the shadows, than directly standing up to them. Her abusive history with her mother really took a tool on her mental health, eventually perceiving the whole city being this way and wanting it gone. Which is the entire reason she joined Moebius. To burn this evil hell to the ground and get another chance at life.
@@paragonyoshi4237 so you admit that she was spineless. And the city evil? It’s way better than the life as a flame clock soldier where she not even sure she gets better and she just ends up harvested away. She is just stupid.
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Moebius are intentionally not as fleshed out as past villains because in a way they're meant to be a commentary on the ruling class who abuses their power for the sake of abusing their power. Sometimes there is no grandiose motive or reasoning, and that's ok. It's a greedy, hellish world and they work perfectly in the context of 3's story in my opinion. Great vid, Zano!
Crazy how Torna’s ending song’s name “A moment of eternity” basically hinted at 3’s entire plot
Little disappointed you didn't mention Cap'n Triton, Man o the Seas and friendly neighbourhood Moebius.
Beyond him just being an unbelievably fun character, I think he also explores the benefits and shortcomings of being Moebius, of living forever. He was someone who sought a life of fun and adventure, enjoying a good scrap, good food and good company all in equal turn. And he enjoyed them all for an unknowable amount of time, living multiple lifetimes to the fullest.
But, all that time spent, meant very little in the end. Not just because of the ending of the story, but because there was no one left to remember it, not even Trition himself. I've always believed his memory issues were less regular dementia, and more his still human mind struggling to continue after operating for such an endlessly long time, likely even beyond what other Moebius have experienced.
Living in an endless now may mean endless opportunity, but it ultimately amounts to endless stagnation.
To add to this you fight X and Y in the final boss battle with Z. When you defeat Z is when they truly are defeated.
Triton is one of my favorite characters in the game. But he doesn’t ever take on an antagonistic role, which is why I didn’t include him. If I ever make a heroes video he will certainly be there
Moebius being generally shallow villains also just shows what the endless now does to people, there’s no growth, no change, people devolve into their worst selves, and Z X and Y as the embodiment of this it makes sense they would be even more shallow, especially X and Y who are really just extensions of Z, almost like puppets or clones. That’s why I feel those 3 characters make one really good character when looked at as just one character.
Nice video. Just want to say that Shania was brilliantly written for a villain. Because not only did the game show the opposite side of the natural life exemplified in the City, but her world view views the life within Moebius, specifically the life within Keves and Agnus cycles because her backstory screams a second chance at life. She was driven to a life where she was pushed off by other's wants, and not her version of her life. I saw her story having a heavy implication on her choices within the game much like N.
D's role was also great because it's not only annoying like Mumkhar/ Metal face, but he is given an exit together with Joran because they are like opposites, a strong D and a weak but kind J. They created a harmony that shows strength when they interlink, much like human society. They much like in sync except the last fight when Joran realized his strength.
X and Y was also good because I viewed them like a trinity processor of Ontos, Pneuma and Logos. Since they are pure moebius and came from Z, I think their deaths don't need cutscenes because they aren't humans that display desire. I saw the Moebius that are formerly humans as humans that had strong desires which caused them to display those desires when they died. Since X and Y did not have those desires as pure Moebius, they did not display those desires.
Z also is my most favorite villain in the series. Not only is Z the embodiment of Moebius, but he really doesn't need to do anything because he already created a twisted world where the other Moebius will carry on the hellish world that was created. He also displays a very powerful demeanor because he acts like an audience to what is happening. Many people didn't like his "unconnectedness" to the events in the game, but I felt that he believes he can change things as he wishes to since he believs his own power, which came from humanity's will. Speaking of this will, I think he thinks that Ouroboros won't be able to change things seeing as they are a small bunch compared to "humanity" which he is the embodiment, which became his biggest miscalculation. Overall, I think having a main villain of being a "concept or a god in Aionios" rather than a person makes the stakes journey of xc3 even more heavier because it's like they are against an entire system working in the world; making it harder to destroy than a single powerful will. Sorry if its long as I wanted to share my thoughts and agreements with Moebius. Nice video!
I think one of the biggest things that people tend to misinterpret is that not all Moebius are of equal importance. They act like every single one of them has to be this complex, interesting character with a personal story and motivation, while in reality most of them are just Z's grunts keeping the world how they want it to be. People will be mad at B, H or R because they are shallow, but that's the point. You can't have 25 villains (in XC you have some of the Faced Mechon, Egil and Zanza, and in 2 it's just Torna, Bana and Amalthus). Think of the extra Moebius as your run of the mill mechon, those who don't really impact the story, and treat as actual villains the ones that do. Doing this, we end up with good villains and/or characters the likes of C, D, J, M, N, S, Triton and Z. Because yeah, X and Y are just executed awfully.
Also, some of the grunts even have great charisma for the generic bad guy role they are meant to fulfill. Some examples I can think of are K, I, O and P (to an extent) or F
I kinda wish you mentioned Irma/Moebius I from Fiona's Hero Quest. I really liked her because it showed that the Moebius were complicated characters as well. Irma became friends with Fiona and she believed that she would only grow stronger through tragedy, and although what she did was really bad, Fiona didn't want her to be hurt because she was still a friend to her. Irma also saw her as a friend, and felt bad for what she did and wished to die. It was a very complicated and somewhat toxic relationship, which sorta connected to me personally as I've had toxic friends before.
One of my favorite hero quests. But sense it wasn’t really part of the main story I kept it out. But I’m heavily considering making a video where I rank all the hero quests.
I don't think the Moebius villains, even the small ones are given enough credit.
While many are one note they are used to develop the characters in their respective colonies such as the impact Valdi's one had or the rivalry with Ashera's, some of these consuls like the aftermentioned Ashera one don't even care about Uroboros instead being too focused on their own affairs and ego.
I think it also helps that they all have very stellar VA's who put their all into hamming up the individual Moebius, I don't remember the names of those moebius but I do remember how they talked and their individual scenes.
On Consul D I think something that really helps him is how much of a contrast he is to Joran, while Joran failed in so many lifetimes driving him mad, D flourished under the system.
We also see an interesting pattern in how Moebius are created through both, both J and D found an element of freedom before becoming Moebius, J became more brave then any other cycle while D began to kill outside the cycle and Z is quick to take any random element out of the picture.
X and Y are odd, I like them alot due to personality but I do believe they deserved ending cutscenes, and the fact X just disappears if you don't do certain quests is truly bizarre.
I actually really enjoy the schlocky cartoon villain in moebius too, and its all because of ONE LINE from zed. That whether youre fighting for survival or enjoying yourself its all just to cope with existance.
The dumb power ranger villains are TRYING to delude themselves. Yorun did it too eventually to drop the act. N isnt haming it up but even how he acts is an example of that
So, I'm still watching, but at 5:00 I already felt like saying something. Depicting X and Y's deaths like that was not only *perfect* but the only way it could have happened. It actually baffles me how many people missed that given how strongly the themes of this game are presented. X and Y are a part of Z. They're extensions of him when he was created by Origin, it's why they're the only true Moebius we encounter. Cause every other Moebius were humans that were turned into Moebius at some point.
So, why were their deaths perfect? The biggest theme in Xenoblade Chronicles 3 is time. It's about time moving forward regardless of how scary and unpredictable the future might be. For X and Y, as the extensions of Z, they are the ones that truly want time to remain still, cause if time starts moving they'll no longer exist. So when we run into them in the final dungeon, that's exactly what's happening. The closer we get to Z, the closer we are to getting time to move again. The less control that they have for time to remain still. They don't get a cutscene for their deaths cause if they did, they'd be getting what they want. It truly gives the players that visceral feeling that even in their deaths, time is going to move forward.
It's also why I praise the final dungeon and the final boss for being so long. With Origin being nearly 80-90% of chapter 7, it's really showing you how desperate they are to keep you in the endless now and to not let time move forward. It's a war of attrition.
But those are my feelings, and I know a lot of people expect the super cool death cutscenes.. So I understand the disappointment.
The rest of your video was pretty much everything I agree with and took from my own playthroughs so yeah. Good job.
Thanks! I never thought of it that way, regardless they game is still great.
Fun fact: For X's final battle, if you don't complete Eunie's side story, you fight some random monsters instead. I feel like the same thing would have happened for Y, but you wouldn't be able to see it anyway since Mio's side story is plot mandatory.
Here is my idea of the Aionios as the head of a person. I like to think of the moebius that lead the colonies as a physical manifestation of 'Doupt' itself and also X, Y and Z as those who create the structure that makes these doupts so overwhelming and powerful, aka the person lacking confidence and having lots of self doubt. The fictional war between Keves and Agnus are actually are 2 different choices/decisions that the person can make, but moebius/doupt makes the decisions clash with each other which leads to the person not making up their mind and staying where they are ultimately deciding to do nothing at all while these decisions clash in their mind. X's Ranking system might be how the person ultimately decides which decision is better at the end of the day, but there is maybe such a great ear that it still might be the wrong decision to make because they lack the confidence to make a good deciosion that the 'Doubt' ultimately tears this possible path appart aka reaching Gold Rank. Y's Flameclocks might be 'the need' to make a decision, but ultimately being unable to make one as it stretches into an endless inner conflict. The longer it takes to make a decision the more confident the person loses in themself and that feeds into the inner doubts that make the decision harder which creates a cycle of ideas clashing and nothing seeming to move forward except the mind breaking apart from that pressure. It also creates the illusion of only 1 decision being able to be made which also forces a clash between the decisions/ideas. Z is the ultimate pillar of doubt and lack of confidence. The Mark of Z is what ends up making a decision impossible to make for that person as it's a sign of being rushed to make a decision soon. Think about not having made up what to do after you've finished school even after you hold your degree in your hand. You didn't think about it and it ultimately comes back to bite you as you realised that life is moving forward without you making you fall into despair. You have a limited time to make a decision ,like getting a job or going to college, and you rush ideas through your mind ultimately falling into despair which is what the world of Aionios is. The Endless Now. It's the illusion of being 'endless', but it makes you slowly break appart. Just my little idea of what Aionios, Moebius and even the colonies might be. I mixed it a bit with my current state of life with this interpretation. I liked Moebius actually.
Unfortunatly, people tend to fall into the bandwagon of what "good writing" is these days. Lately, it's been widely accepted that a villain is only good if they are relatable to the veiwer and is treated like a second main character of their own story. They think it's the only way to write now and just ignore a whole spectrum of stories and themes that do not call for such character just cause it doesn't give them the big feels.
I agree. I love Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and its villains, but I don't think they are the best just for being written in a sympathetic way. I think well-written villains should test the heroes and their convictions while pushing them to be their best. You don't need them to be sympathetic for that to be achieved. Sympathetic villains have their place, but they aren't the only kind worth writing.
I won't deny that he serves his role as a villain well.
I just thought he was boring as hell.
they aren't good character at all though. We want Bad guys to be bad guys but Moebius characters is Non existent (just like all of the XC3 characters). They are the definition of Have bad guy. Remember Kefka he isn't sympathetic but fan love the shit out of him. Why because we get to SEE why he is evil same with Metal face of XC1 we don't sympathize with him either yet he is a fan favorite of the series.
XC3 falls for the biggest sin. Tell but not show. They tell us they are E.V.I.L. but all we see is them show up once die to us after they send goons. the finally boss is just a big as why? Everything turning out to be essentially a Dream realy destroys the story while also robbing us of BOTH the great endings of XC1 and XC2 while ALSO denying us the Promissed Crossover of the two worlds that was supposed to occur after their post games that would have been the true XC3...
A complete an utter waste of a sequel hated by 75% of the fans.
@@snintendog Holy shit, you interveiwed every fan about this to find that out? That's amazing!
Journalist of the year right here everyone.
👏
@@xana3961 Ok
Great take on this! I find it especially noteworthy how special it is that this game makes the heroes want to destroy the world, not the villain(s) - it's very refreshing now that I think about it. I also like Moebius as the villains and don't think they're actually that badly executed (except for X and Y, I completely agree on your points regarding them) since they all individually tackle a different aspect of Aionios that would make total sense to occur in such a scenario.
Crazy how many similarities there are to Aionios and what would've been the Bionis had Zanza won. I wonder if Zanza actually did awaken Ontos.
9:21 Right after you said heads, I got an ad for ashly's furniture warehouse lmao
I know this is my second comment on a 3 month old video but this just came to me. The first phase of the final battle takes place in a theatre, now obviously this is a easy to spot metaphor, the stage of life. But I feel people are not going further with this. As it explains why Z never leaves. Aionios, is a grand performance, and Z is the playwright, he never actually gets involved in the play, he simply writes the script or the flow. Thus he never leaves the theatre, X and Y I believe represent the directors, making Zs script come to fruition, Y making the flame cloak system, and X coming up with colony ranks. The people of aionios are then the actors of this performance, acting or fighting for the amusement of the audience, That being non-true Moebius. Now Moebius though do interact with the world, they are not passive. So I believe this represents (now it’s been a bit since I have done drama class so I hope I’m not mixing this up) poor theatre, specifically the an aspect of poor theatre, where the barrier between the audience and actors is non existent, meaning the two groups interact during the performance. (Someone’s probably already made these connections before me but I’ve seen no-one say it so I hope I have not made myself look the fool)
I do think that Moebius as a whole really compliments the whole theme of the the game (and by extension the series) of the ability to choose and the need to strive for the future without being shackled by the past. they're already created by the collectives unconious doubts and fears of the people of Bionis and Alrest, and on top of that it seems the way Z creates most (I imagine Dirk is an outlier due to his sadisim) of his consols is by slowly breaking them down and making them submit into they're fears and despair. And while yes Moebius can be cartoonishly evil, I do think it helps prop up the more disturbing members and the countless amounts of crimes they've committed.
My favorite Moebius characters:
M
I
N
T
S
I agree.
reads what word the letters make. WAIT ONE SECOUND
K is one of my favorites as well. He's so sassy and fun
While playing the game I had an idea and I developed it a lot: what if Eunie, Taion, Lanz and Sena also had a Consul counterpart like Noah and Mio? I dont make videos and dont have any plans on doing them, but I feel like I did a good job (my opinion only though) trying to include them as a part of Moebius
While on paper it will look cool but that will make it repetitive and will rather hurt N and M's role in the story...
See N and M worked because they have a significant backstory and was built throughout the game it even extended to Future Redeemed...
Having the other 4 have Mobeius not only makes it repetitive but also removes contrast and variety..
Imho their connection with the other Moebius like Eunie's fear with D, Sena with Shania (altho this one is kinda half-baked), Lanz with Joran, Taion is really not hard tied to Mobieus but Nimue is a victim of the cycle as well...
This gives spice to the overall plot and makes their part of the story more significant in a way that it's unique to their own...
Finally beat it. I loved Xenoblade Cronicles the whole concept of it as a whole I think 3 is the perfect way to end it. We know there is more to it with the DLC, but man what a blast. Mobeius were amazing imo.
This was a good video and i guess Z is basicly Ego the living Planet from Marvel comics.
X and Y don't have a death cutscene nor a real characterization because they are parts of Z. They were born along with him and you can see them among the various form Z takes in the final fight. You could argue they are just different personas of the same being, Moebius.
I sorta like how you could encounter mobius villains in side quests as well.
Joran is quite underrated.
7:27 That, and they should've made Sena's side story actually relate to Sena in any meaningful way. It’s basically just Ghondor's Hero Quest.
Also, one more W for Shania: Future Redeemed implies that she might be related to Reyn, so make of that what you will.
I still think it matters to sena, because Shania is very much a dark reflection of Sena's own inferiority complex, just as N is Noah's dark reflection. also Shania is very much DISTANTLY related to Reyn, simply because EVERYONE in house Reid was related to reyn through a common ancestor.
@Detective Thursday Still, Sena could've done more. Like deal the final blow to Shania, for instance. It's her side story, why does Ghondor have to hog the spotlight?
@@lucassworldofletsplays9270 I remember a quest in the game, though can't really remember which one, which would have fit for Sena's side quest, with how involved and related to her it ends up being, so instead of Ghondor having the tirkin quest as her ascension quest, it could've been what is Sena's current side quest, making the tirkin quest a generic one, while making the other one which I really wish I could remember Sena's side quest.
At least, this how I think could have been instead.
Sena’s character exploration is a slow burn, but her Colony 0 stuff is real great
Saturday comic villians? I think everyone missing the point of thier flat characters
They represent Depravity and Despair. I have said, time and time again.
DESPAIR CAN DRIVE YOU INSANE!
And that think is very prevelant in both Shania, Joren and N. As you said, and that is a good reflection. So what does my Depravity line has to do with anything? People of Mobieus threw thier morality for small joy. They act annoying because there is nothing left, a moment in Real Life when One cannot see what else there is to move on from.
They are deeper then one can see but they are not meant to be liked anyway
I agree that X and Y could have been more fleshed out, mostly caused it imply they were creations of Z and not people made Mobieus but they represent the Lack of Empathy side of Z himself. Throwing away life, like Y and creating a system that is never ending like Y.
And it goes back to yoru final say about the World being the Main Villian and the Real Life Reflection, people are flawed and people have desire
The World of Xenoblade became a world of never moving forward, thus Mobieus embraced such Depravity.
Z himself made me flat but as he said "it is after all an essence of my being", he existed merely to fuel a fearful Desire of People that he felt was the ultimate example of peopel embracing Depravity and Despair
finally, No I dont think D should have been more promintent. he was unforgiveable and died a fitting death. But to me he represented the true Depravity that Z wanted to symbolize, he did not go insane of Despair because he was already embracing hsi Depravity. He was the perfect Hated Mobieus, because he was already embracing that Lives were meaningless and meant to be culled.
Hey, pretty early here so maybe I can catch you.
I agree with your points for the most part. Moebius, or more particularly Z himself, is not a villain manipulating people so much as he is enabling the people of Aionios to get what they want: eternity, without the permanence of death and loss.
Now, to your point about how N couldn't have been the final boss, my thought is that he could have been, but instead of having a twist boss have the final reveal be that Z is nothing but an AI in control of Origin and Aionios. Reveal that it literally has no power to fight back or resist, that anyone could have destroyed it at any time... But that everyone for the preceding thousands of years have always, invariably, accepted the status quo of the Endless Now rather than reintroduce the permanence of loss. The party realize that destroying Z means separating their worlds permanently, and are forced to come to terms with it.
At least to me, that would make the bitter in the bittersweet ending that much more poignant, as the party isn't given the time to say a real goodbye or pass keepsakes. They're forced to step forward into an uncertain new world, or else the Endless Now will continue ad infinitum.
That would of been cool, but like I said I was only going off what the game gave me. But again everyone’s opinions are subjective and it was really cool to hear your idea
As we know now with the dlc Future redeemed. Z don't offered N eternity in exchange of destroying the city he fighter for, e did in exchange for a treaty with the city for them both stop to fight each other an endless now for the city too. But Alpha as planing to delete Aionios along with the Mobius and it's commanded soldiers and crate a new world with only with the people of the city. So N needed to Stop Alpha their fight destroyed the city and killed N's son . The original purpose of the city was to liberates everyone from the system so it couldn't Go with Alpha neither stay in the now ignoring the never ending wars between Leves and Agnes people.
I understand Moebius because I am literally N
nice video, but I cant help but notice you staring at the script the whole time, maybe put it directly behind the camera or something?
The video was actually entirely unscripted 😅
@@Zanolith oh lol my bad, i assumed you where reading off a script, then i guess my advice would be look toward the camera
4:45
I think the issue with moebius for a lot of people really is what you went over at the start- even if the greater narrative and N/M/Shania are strong, the glut of boring moebius villains sours a lot of people on them
Oh for sure, and that's why I personally think there should of been more boss variety for the hero quests. Because the core moebius story is very good
It's be like if we got a bunch of sidequests in 1 that were voiced where you had some faced mechon going "boy gee howdy I love eating children. Munchy munchy children." It would take the impact away from Xord and Metal Face.
Also I personally think the moebius outfits look dumb. It works for Triton because he's a goofy guy, and N/M have unique ones, but the regular ones just look like even goofier power rangers.
Is someone going to make a morb joke or what?
It’s moebin time
my guy spoiler warning
ru talking about the thumbnail? cuz if you watching a video called "nobody understands mobius" you cant really complain about spoilers
Lol
Although Moebius is great as a concept for a villain and the execution is kind of disapointing, I still prefer it to the boring ass "i am an evil god look at me muahahahah" aka Zanza. Still nothing beats the antagonists from xenoblade 2.
For me the ranking for the series is:
1. Xenoblade Chronicles 2
2. Xenoblade Chronicles 3
3. Xenoblade Chronicles (im really feeling it)
(probably the most unpopular opinion but i stand for it)
Hey man everyone has their opinions. All 3 are amazing in their own right imo
Xenoblade Chronicles: Endless cycle to prevent the world from evolving, everything else is a product of "god having fun for the lolz, telling you that you suck".
Xenoblade Chronicles 3: Endless cycle to prevent the world from evolving, everything else is a product of "god having fun for the lolz, telling you that you suck".
My problem with your analysis with Shania is that why didn’t just stand up to her mom? Also she had support from both her father (which also makes shania mom going against the will of her husband and daughter) and ghondor and she had talent, she was just weak. Also her goal is just bad because even if you reach gold rank, moebius just harvest them and that’s even if shania makes it to gold rank (see Jordan).
How many kids stand up to their abusive parents?
Also both her father and her sister died. And Ghondor, while meaning well, is really bad when it comes to words, since she is always aggressive and abrasive in her wording.
Which caused Shania to completely misunderstand her, once depression got hold of her.
@@paragonyoshi4237 can't stand to her old mom but has no problem backstabbing her and killing the entire population of the city?
@@MrSupersmash93 She still didn't directly face her mom, because she didn't have the courage.
Until she got the power of Moebius that is.
It's much easier taking someone down from the shadows, than directly standing up to them.
Her abusive history with her mother really took a tool on her mental health, eventually perceiving the whole city being this way and wanting it gone.
Which is the entire reason she joined Moebius. To burn this evil hell to the ground and get another chance at life.
@@paragonyoshi4237 so you admit that she was spineless. And the city evil? It’s way better than the life as a flame clock soldier where she not even sure she gets better and she just ends up harvested away. She is just stupid.
A child not embraced by the village will burn it to feel its warmth
Why would I even bother, Morbius is boring.
Okay