Magnetic sine plate repair PART 1
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- I'm taking apart a worn out magnetic sine chuck. This multipart series is going to have it all, metal lathe, Milling machine, surface grinding, and even some forge work. Get ready to have som
Hi Dale, can't wait to see how this finishes as I have been buying mag chucks when they are a good price on ebay with the intention of having a go at giving them a service and hopefully restore their performance. This is a great video as I really think maintenance of our gear is something most of us aspire to and it is something really practical we can do in our workshops. As mentioned in an earlier comment, loved the teaser clips you slipped in too as want to have a good look at those. I have found by following you guys that post on youtube that I try to manufacture alot of the tools and gear you use in your videos as a way to broaden my own tool list. Keep the good stuff coming, really enjoy. Gordon, AUS
Another great project, Dale. Looking forward to more videos on the rebuild. Thanks for sharing. Awesome channel.
Hi Ted, Im glad you liked the my channel.
Just bought a Parker Majestic with a 6x18 Cermax chuck. The actuating shaft is wallowing about so looking at your series to give me some insights before I crack it open. Thanks Dale!
Magnetics, a complex subject. I'm not going to try and correct your terminology here, because I really don't think it is important. Since you are not building a chuck, but only repairing it. I think the repair itself makes for a great video. Terms like Remanence, Saturation and Flux lines are pretty damn hard to explain with out writing a book. So I think what you are doing here is great fun as few people have even seen the inside of a magnetic chuck.
I think people pretty much get the idea of how it works with what you have explained here. I look forward to your next video from a repair point of view. Thanks for sharing
Hi IronHead Machine, I really like your comment. Thanks for taking the time to write it. :-)
I respect your skills in machine restoration.
Thanks Paul :-)
Always wanted to see inside of one of those magic boxes. Was always told if you wanted to know how it works take it apart and see Thanks for sharing Guy
Just what i was looking for. rebuilding my chuck and it happens to be the same brand all the components are the same. On the inside the spring clamps were disintegrated. Now i will know how to build them Thank you.
Hi Dale. Looking forward to seeing the rest of the project. Now I got to get back to mine my friend.
Hi cuttingtooldesigne. Thanks for your comment.:-)
Very interesting Dale. Can't wait to see the next video.
Yes you are correct in your explanation. I always say it's like changing amplitute frequency.
Short to long or wide to thin
Looking forward to seeing the rest of the rebuild. The mag chuck at our shop has similar issues. It was also ran with coolant and probably looks the same inside as yours.
Hi Bwood454, I hope this video will be helpful. :-)
I'm following, absolutely a unique series. i would like to see little longer, more detailed videos though. particularly wheen it comes to bringing the sine portion back into spec.
Hi Brian, I would like to do longer videos, but I would never get them done. For every min you watch there is about on hour production into it, so a 10 min video takes me 8 to 10 hour. Thanks four your supportive comment. It means a lot to me. :-)
Very interesting. I never knew what was inside one. Looking forward to the next one.
This is going to be a cool video series, I am a newbie and it's cool to see whats inside.
Got to love those "can of worms" projects. Looks like fun. I look forward to the rest of the project.
Nice teases of the finished product.
Can't wait for the other parts!
Aloha Dale, I agree with IronHead Machine, and look forward to the diverse projects in the repair process. Mahalo and keep up the great work.
This is going to be an awesome project. Thanks Dale!
Great video, like the detail I learn a lot from your videos
Thanks Sparty83
I hope part two comes out later today, I really want to see the rest of this project. :)
Restorations are very interesting to watch, and I think this magnetic plate will look very nice in the end. Thanks!
Hi Dixonquwerty, Im going to try and have the next on out tomorrow. wish me luck.
Good luck!! I am waiting for it. :)
Great work Dale. I'm building cool stuff every day!
Great video and subject....like the tease clips can't wait for more....lol
i was just talking to my boss about how we can go about rebuilding a magnetic sine plate. Now i feel like it's something i can attempt. Thank you so much for these informative videos Dale!
Constructive criticism: i would love for you to film the entire breakdown and explain what your doing in more detail. The fast forwarding leaves many questions unanswered.
Hey Dale,
There's a very good reason not to take SOME magnetic chucks apart. If they use Alnico magnets, then they loose a large part of their magnetism if the magnetic circuit is broken.
Remember traditional horseshoe magnets having a 'keeper' plate?
It's something that every Magneto re-builder knows well. Ideally you 'energise' the magnets with the armature in situ.
Doing it the way you did, only taking ONE plate off at a time should be OK, even with Alnico magnets. I've done it with an old Eclipse mag-chuck as they have a problem where the epoxy between the pole pieces swells and the magnet becomes very stiff to slide (I recall This Old Tony has this problem with one of his chucks).
Hi Paul, I didn't know that. Thanks for taking the time to write
Superb video! Excellent editing and can't wait for the rest of the series. Thank you for posting
Thanks J. The next one will be out next week
I love when you caught the base on the exposed magnet. totally something I'd do :) great video!
Grate video, and really nice work table.
Really looking forward to the rest of the series - Thanks.
Jack
Hi xyzzy1944, I hope I don't disappoint you .
Cool project Dale, I'll be looking forward to the next episode. Ciao, Marco.
Very interesting, looking forward to the rest. Good job on the editing, gives me more time for shop fun.
good video, can't wait to see more!
HI Jimmy, The next video should be out in a few days. :-)
I don't know if your description of how it works is 100% correct, but it makes sense. I watched a dozen other videos, but your the first to explain how they get it work with thinner material. they have mentioned it, but didn't bother to explain it. epoxy is probably a bad choice. so many other videos explain that some parts of a magnetic chuck need be conductive. I suspect you will have weaker flux. unless it's conductive epoxy of course. yeah. probably matters.
Great video Dale, a big leap forward in every way, appreciate the effort and keep going , regards from Ireland
Thanks Rogers. :-)
Nice, I like the condensed format.
Very informative video, I look forward to more!
Thanks LoadeMod94
great project, I#m looking forward to see the next parts of the series
I am pretty excited about this video series, Dale. I am especially curious how you will get that magnet away from the chuck body without destroying something. Like your fingers.
You will see how I did in just a few days.
looking forward to it
As a scrap handler, I used electromagnets as heavy as 3 tons. It was clear that if I was lifting thick stuff, I needed higher voltage. Strange thing on the thin stuff though. Had to reduce voltage a good bit to relax magnetic fields if I wanted to reach out for more than one sheet of tin. Only by reducing voltage could I lift a pile of tin instead of a couple sheets if voltage were at rate it takes to lift very thick stuff.
Thanks for sharing. that was very interesting
really looking forward to this rebuild!
Hi Shaun, the next video should be out in a few days.
Thats pretty cool. Great job on the editing.
thanks Retro Welder
Dale,
My first view inside a magnetic chuck.
Hi Donald, It my second, they are really simple, not scary at all:-)
Nice job.
Thanks Randy.
this is such a great video I wish I could give it more than one thumbs up! Really nice job
Your videos have improved a lot nice job
Thanks Duke
Hi I liked this video and I would like to just add comment that on a visit to a machine tool fair a friend and I talked to Eclipse who manufacture magnetic chucks in the UK they said that the reason you should not disasemble them is that they loose magnetic power and when they refurbish them the end process is to remagnetise the chuck this may just be scare talk to get you to send your worn out chuck to them just thought i would mention it
thank Gary
Great detail! Can't wait for part 2
Awesome! I was looking for some info on those magnetic sine chucks, but I couldn't even find the name of those lol Keep the good work!!! :)
if that was the finished product at the end I'm already impressed
Definitely interesting n thanks for the video !!!
Looks like a lot of work.
Hi, hows it going? Yes it took a lot more time then I had expected. but don't all projects.
Hi, hows it going? Yes it took a lot more time then I had expected. but don't all projects.
I was expecting polar bears on one side and penguins on the other.Can't wait for PART 2.
GREAT VIDEO !!!
Thanks for your very positive comment :-)
great video!
Thanks
I've played more with the outside of those, the inside is also interesting... ;)
Nice idea for a video, appreciated...
Pierre
Great videos, just discovered them recently.
I've always had a passion for anything engineering and I'm finally looking to put a home shop together (I think a lathe first) so your channel is a godsend and it's inspiring watching people think outside tge box and who's passion for their subject is very self evident.
Keep up the great work, you definitely have a new follower ;)
I will say that there is indeed an audio anomaly as commented by Alexx3c.
My natural calling is audio. I do a lot of sound editing for music production and make foux film clips occasionally and have even done foley work (overdubbing commen environmental sounds for film/TV). There is definitely something overlayed onto the audio somehow. The sequence of oddness starts as soon a the word "epoxy" is spoken. I can just make out some sort of extra "twinkly/sparkly" kinda sound not associated with any of the actions, or materials present in the video and then the voice starts. As it's a lot quiter, most of the strange voice is covered by the original but I can just make out:
.. something ..something (your?) ......incredible/inedible?
A second un associated sound (bit longer this time and seems to have a kind of reverb tail, like it was recorded in a huge space but is heard at a very low volume.
Honestly, the way it seems to be constructed sounds like something I would put together in my studio for a tune buld up or something, if it weren't for the fact that it happens on a Mettal Tips and Tricks video, I'd call BS, or hoax.
The only thing I can liken it to is when my kids leave their walkie talkies on, every now and again, they will pick up a signal from a seperate set and we can clearly hear others talking. Kids have tried to answer back but seems they can't hear our set (I still think that one is odd too, I know about signal interference and I'm sure its not that, too random).
Anyhoo, never had a first hand like this, see em all over RUclips. .. "Strange voice captured on video, blah blah blah"...... and like I said, I make foax clips, just need a few voice actors (could be fam or frends) and a bit of knowhow so this ones flipped my head a tad.
I love it! Thanks.
Thanks
nice job!
thanks Jason!
Great video only thing wrong is it was to short would love longer videos
HI Colin, I wish I had there time to make longer videos. thanks for your nice comment . :-)
Very interesting seeing inside one of these. Looks like the restoration is going to be quite a great series! Did I see some heat treating?! Forgive me, I'm a bit of a materials guy so that kind of stuff excites me haha.
HI Justplanecrazy25, Yes you did see some heat treating. I had to make the small leave spring. Before you ask yes there will be a video on it. :-)
How that works is simple if you take 2 small mag. And get the poles identified and you take two north poles and pic up a coin then you can grab a steel plate it holds but if you flip 1 mag it will still hold the coin but it will not hold on to the steel plate so all you are doing with a mag chuck is flipping one mags poles it will hold on to its surface plate but it will not hold on to anything elce
Hi mate. Good fun, the thing is not working now, so what the hell, you can't break it any more. Don has a video on how they are made but not on how they are repaired.
Marcel Timmers Remember rule one of CPR: "He's dead. There is no way you can make this worse."
Hi Marcel, I saw the video that suburban tool did, I wish he would have gone more of the theory of how they worked.
All you need is some sticktoitiveness.
LOL
It looks like you borrowed Tony's time machine. I look forward to catching up.
Lol, he couldn't resist debts ding it
yeah buddy she was right proper warbled out
Very interesting, I'm looking forward to more. Do you have a link or a resource about replacing the metal strips with brass and epoxy instead if pinned on? Thanks, keep the great videos coming.
Hi Richard, No I don't, but what I do know is that all magnetic sandwiches are held together with epoxy. So it should work with out any problems.
Anybody itching to find out how hurtful getting your fingers stuck between two powerful magnets is get yourself two hard-drive magnets and give it a go. Just don't do it on Mama Bear's new couch. lol
Nice project. I wonder why people are warned not to take them apart? Is it hard to hold everything in alignment when reassembling? (I suppose this will be covered in a future episode.)
If you get a finger between the magnet pack and the top plate with a few inches of separation, the peak speed at which they contact each other is unbelievable and they have significant mass. if they approach parallel you just get crushed bone. I they are at an angle where an edge hits first it will hurt less because it will sever the finger off instead of crushing it. I am not kidding.
Ah, OK - people safety. I thought it might be a problem with reassembling. Thanks.
I once had rare-earth magnets of fairly moderate size take a little bite out of a finger when they came back together awkwardly. So handling big magnets would be a potential hazard.
7:49 there is a ghost??? maybe a soul of ancient machinist?
glad I'm not the only one who noticed random demon speaking in the video... I did a double take around my house before I thought to replay the video
Greatjoblearnedallineededtoknowfromit
Question? I was thinking of getting a magnetic chuck about the same size as the one you are working on. I would be using it on a milling machine (Bridgeport type) not a surface grinder. My concern is holding power for milling. I did understand what you said about thin vs. thicker segments, so I guess thicker might be better for my applications. I feel it would not have the holding strength for milling, unless one took a very light cut. Any suggestions?
Magnetic chuck they don't have the holding power. I would use a vacuum plat.
Dale, is that a 3D printer in your shop? What have you used it for?
Hi Paul, yes that is a 3d printer. I shot a video on it last week. but when I was editing it I lost part of the audio. so you'll have to wait for your answer on what I use it for. LOL
👍🏻
P.S I apologise for my awful spelling, I'm a little dyslexic and often miss my mistakes, even after re reading.
Hey Dale spell check your description or write a nice message on your chuck. :-)
thanks :-)
No problem. I laughed when you stuck that base to the bottom of the magnet, obviously it still has some holding power. :-)
I was really lucky that i could get it off.
You should not use epoxy on the upper side because it is a magnetic insulator and will lower the power of the chuck. On the lower side it would not make any difference though.
Thanks for your comment :-)
Metal Tips and Tricks Not true at all about epoxy. The effect of the epoxy is identical to an air gap with the same thickness. The 'magnetic permeability' of epoxy is the same as that of air. In comparison to mild steel, air and epoxy have far lower permeability. The analogy is to electricity is that low permeability is like high resistance, with magnetic flux analogous to electric current. Maximizing magnetic flux is mostly about minimizing air gaps and using high permeability materials to 'conduct' the magnetic flux.
Paul Mathews This is exactly what I tried to say. If the epoxy is on the lower side of the chuck this obviously does not matter. If you put it on the top side inbetween the permanent magnets and the surface plate the insulation matters.
Flugschüler Fluglehrer An insulator carries no current or only a slight leakage current. Air gaps are more like a series resistance.
Paul Mathews English is not my mothertoung, so please excuse my unpricise terminology. I was seeing an analogy to thermic insulation rather than electric insulation.
what was the ghostly voice at 7.55?
why not just resize the bushing
Since you didn't say positive comments, I just leap right in with WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING? I'm just kidding, looks like fun, wish I could help, but I've got to much to do in my shop.
Hi Tex, You trolls are all alike you wait to find a mistake, and then you pounce.
LOL :-)
Metal Tips and Tricks oh man a stab to the chest, I'm no troll. Especially when it comes to safety, hell I had to sew my own finger tips back on after I cut them off with a cut off wheel on a grinder, (and yes there's a video). So I must say I'm anything but a troll.
80 dollars great
Uh... @7:50...wtf is that subliminal message??? Freaked me out watching with headphones
When you say "Magnetic flux" I think you mean Magnetic field.
Hi Trainedtiger, Yes :-)
Dale, your lack of detail loses my interest. A 10 min video.? Take lessons from ABOM. I'm about to unsubscribe. Sorry, I'm not a "Troll", but us older guys actually have an attention span. Stop the fast forward BS and take the time to teach us.
Michael Davis I think your comment is not constructive. You want to watch him remove screws in real time? I'm sorry, but if that is the level of education you seek, this may not be the video series for you. I'm not sure if you know this, but this was merely an introduction video. He didn't fast toward through anything meaningful. He promises later videos will show the details of the actual work. Please give him a chance to make good on that promise before you jump on his case for not teaching you how he removed the screws (hint: He turned them counter-clockwise until they came out).
NO NO NO! magnets are very simple. I'll include the word saturation and you can go from there. Explaining magnetic fields as if they were threads is completely wrong.
Always wanted to see inside of one of those magic boxes. Was always told if you wanted to know how it works take it apart and see Thanks for sharing Guy
if that was the finished product at the end I'm already impressed