Way back in the last century when I first learned NT koine Greek, I learned the 8 cases. While I did reasonably well in my Greek classes, many of my classmates and I, to some extent, struggled with identifying the different cases. We would usually be correct on the form, just didn't understand how it was being used in context. That did get easier with time. While it's not the way I was taught originally, I'm a fan of teaching the 5 cases based on form in the beginning. As students become more familiar with the language, they can learn the different uses of the form and how context (including prepositions, etc) can help determine which use is intended in that instance. This seems to be a more natural way of learning language. When learning language as a baby/toddler, I learned a few forms first. As I progressed using the language and studying grammar, I learned that sometimes the same form of the word has different uses, depending on context (continuous tense vs adjectival use vs gerund for verbs ending in -ing, for example). If I had tried to focus on all the possible uses of the forms when I was starting to learn language, I probably would never have been able to communicate anything other than basic thoughts, even as an adult! Just a few of my random thoughts.
I’m a Canadian born raised by Greek parents. Therefore my mother tongue was Greek. I attended Greek school and practiced with my mother. We have to keep in mind the Bible was written by scholars with the old Greek. If you learn alphabet and sounds simply you could get by. The only thing I learned automatically have difficulty explaining to my children masculine and feminine of objects. to trapesi Table masculine. h karekla. Chair feminine. Learning Greek definitely helps with math science in elementary and high school
Great video. I always thought that the 5 vs. 8 case argument was kind of silly. Just present the 5 cases, and point out that for each case, there are a number of sub-categories of different types of usage. The 8-cases might be the main categories, but there are others too.
We have a few problems here : In Greek is no indefinite article but in Coptic there is and in ancient manuscripts it says " a god " Why did Jesus call God his God ? Why did Jesus say : My God my God why have you forsaken me " Why did Jesus say im going to my God and your God in John 21 .
Excellent video. Thank you. I sat under ONE pastor for fifty years who taught from the original languages. He, of course, had been trained in the 8 case system. Now that I am finishing my first year of Biblical Greek (Merkle/Plummer text) at 70 years of age, I can understand completely the advantages/disadvantages of advocating for either system, but I will vote for the 5 case system as the initial learning tool.
If I recall, we still have a residue of case in English with pronouns such as, he (nominative), his (possessive), him (object) and I (nominative) me (object), my (possessive) and mine (possessive with linking verb (The book is mine). Your comment, Darryl?
7:33 May I interpose? I think the ideal is, explain 8 (or 9) cases, say which ones coincide in the particular language, learn the different ones in the particular language. (9 = accusative always coincides with lative, a counterpart to ablative and locative). Latin: genitive dative ablative locative = ablative instrumental = ablative Greek: genitive dative ablative = genitive locative = dative instrumental = dative Now you _know that,_ proceed to learn Latin N, G, D, Acc, V, Abl or Greek N, G, D, A, V.
Was also some help in Balto-Slavic. genitive dative ablative = genitive locative instrumental Now proceed to learn Po or Lit N, G, D, A, V, L, I (in Russian, V = N).
Great explanation! I found that learning about the 8 case system help better understand the usage of genetic error and dative. It kind of breaks the idea that genitive is only possessive, etc. So, I will stick with the 4 or 5 cases and appreciate knowing a little about the 8 case system.
The greek language at the beginning had 8 cases: the nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, vocative, instrumental, locative and ablative. However along the way until the classical period They remain only five of them
@@rinkevichjm I know, I know. I'm just saying the use is comitative, not instrumental. An instrumental case marks the noun as an instrument, not necessarily as a companion. Sometimes these overlap but not always. So in English these would both be marked by "with" and in modern Greek by "με" + accusative, but the instrumental mentioned in the video refers to something like "εν" + dative, which is what descends from the PIE instrumental and carries the instrumental meaning. "Μετά" is used with the genitive and it mainly carries a comitative meaning, denoting accompaniment, as far as I know. Correct me if I'm wrong.
There are five and three numbers but one of the cases only exists in the singular. And the neuter is different from the masculine in only two cases, so twenty different declensions. Lithuanian has 7 cases, 3 numbers but dual is only two different cases and vocative is only is singular only, but they have 5 different patterns. Germanic and Latin don’t have all 8 cases either, but Lithuanian has 3 not counted locative forms in both singular and plural. Stop complaining Lithuanian is still spoken with all 10 cases and all 3 numbers is some places.
Even a Christian cannot brush aside the worship of Jehovah as God. In Revelation 1:5 the Son of God called himself "Jesus Christ, 'The Faithful Witness.'" When on earth as a man he was a Jew, an Israelite, to whose nation the words of Isaiah 43:10 were written: "'You are my witnesses, ' is the utterance of Jehovah, 'even my servant whom I have chosen.'" Jesus demonstrated that he was a faithful and true witness of Jehovah God. His genuine disciples today must be the same kind of witnesses, Jehovah's.
Way back in the last century when I first learned NT koine Greek, I learned the 8 cases. While I did reasonably well in my Greek classes, many of my classmates and I, to some extent, struggled with identifying the different cases. We would usually be correct on the form, just didn't understand how it was being used in context. That did get easier with time.
While it's not the way I was taught originally, I'm a fan of teaching the 5 cases based on form in the beginning. As students become more familiar with the language, they can learn the different uses of the form and how context (including prepositions, etc) can help determine which use is intended in that instance. This seems to be a more natural way of learning language. When learning language as a baby/toddler, I learned a few forms first. As I progressed using the language and studying grammar, I learned that sometimes the same form of the word has different uses, depending on context (continuous tense vs adjectival use vs gerund for verbs ending in -ing, for example). If I had tried to focus on all the possible uses of the forms when I was starting to learn language, I probably would never have been able to communicate anything other than basic thoughts, even as an adult!
Just a few of my random thoughts.
I’m a Canadian born raised by Greek parents. Therefore my mother tongue was Greek. I attended Greek school and practiced with my mother. We have to keep in mind the Bible was written by scholars with the old Greek. If you learn alphabet and sounds simply you could get by. The only thing I learned automatically have difficulty explaining to my children masculine and feminine of objects. to trapesi Table masculine. h karekla. Chair feminine. Learning Greek definitely helps with math science in elementary and high school
Great video. I always thought that the 5 vs. 8 case argument was kind of silly. Just present the 5 cases, and point out that for each case, there are a number of sub-categories of different types of usage. The 8-cases might be the main categories, but there are others too.
We have a few problems here :
In Greek is no indefinite article but in Coptic there is and in ancient manuscripts it says " a god "
Why did Jesus call God his God ?
Why did Jesus say : My God my God why have you forsaken me "
Why did Jesus say im going to my God and your God in John 21 .
Excellent video. Thank you. I sat under ONE pastor for fifty years who taught from the original languages. He, of course, had been trained in the 8 case system. Now that I am finishing my first year of Biblical Greek (Merkle/Plummer text) at 70 years of age, I can understand completely the advantages/disadvantages of advocating for either system, but I will vote for the 5 case system as the initial learning tool.
Thank you for this clear explanation. I learned the 5 cases system. It easier to start with.
If I recall, we still have a residue of case in English with pronouns such as, he (nominative), his (possessive), him (object) and I (nominative) me (object), my (possessive) and mine (possessive with linking verb (The book is mine). Your comment, Darryl?
7:33 May I interpose?
I think the ideal is, explain 8 (or 9) cases, say which ones coincide in the particular language, learn the different ones in the particular language.
(9 = accusative always coincides with lative, a counterpart to ablative and locative).
Latin:
genitive
dative
ablative
locative = ablative
instrumental = ablative
Greek:
genitive
dative
ablative = genitive
locative = dative
instrumental = dative
Now you _know that,_ proceed to learn Latin N, G, D, Acc, V, Abl or Greek N, G, D, A, V.
Was also some help in Balto-Slavic.
genitive
dative
ablative = genitive
locative
instrumental
Now proceed to learn Po or Lit N, G, D, A, V, L, I (in Russian, V = N).
Great explanation! I found that learning about the 8 case system help better understand the usage of genetic error and dative. It kind of breaks the idea that genitive is only possessive, etc. So, I will stick with the 4 or 5 cases and appreciate knowing a little about the 8 case system.
I agree. The 8 case system does help us understand the distinctions between the genitive and dative. Thanks for watching!
A most helpful video
Just curious how many languages can you read?
The greek language at the beginning had 8 cases: the nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, vocative, instrumental, locative and ablative. However along the way until the classical period They remain only five of them
I’m just starting out and we are learning 5 cases.
I learned the 5 case system, I found the 8 form system more intimidating, but as I learned more it got easier
Experience, right?
@@bma yea pretty much, nothing beats time with the language itself
instrumental case is μετά +.
That's comitative, I think, not instrumental.
@@andreasm5770 there is no commutative declension in any European language never has been
@@rinkevichjm I know, I know. I'm just saying the use is comitative, not instrumental. An instrumental case marks the noun as an instrument, not necessarily as a companion. Sometimes these overlap but not always. So in English these would both be marked by "with" and in modern Greek by "με" + accusative, but the instrumental mentioned in the video refers to something like "εν" + dative, which is what descends from the PIE instrumental and carries the instrumental meaning. "Μετά" is used with the genitive and it mainly carries a comitative meaning, denoting accompaniment, as far as I know. Correct me if I'm wrong.
@@andreasm5770 there is no commutative use in IE it’s just a made up category. Especially since μετά has use as within and in.
@@andreasm5770 in 1Tim4:3-4 meta is used twice with an instrumental meaning. “Within/in Eucharist”
There are five and three numbers but one of the cases only exists in the singular. And the neuter is different from the masculine in only two cases, so twenty different declensions. Lithuanian has 7 cases, 3 numbers but dual is only two different cases and vocative is only is singular only, but they have 5 different patterns. Germanic and Latin don’t have all 8 cases either, but Lithuanian has 3 not counted locative forms in both singular and plural. Stop complaining Lithuanian is still spoken with all 10 cases and all 3 numbers is some places.
The Lithuanian cases nom., Gen., voc., acc., dat., loc/inn., instr., + all., ill., adhes.
Sounds more like a lesson in linguistics than in Scripture.
Like arabic lol
Even a Christian cannot brush aside the worship of Jehovah as God. In Revelation 1:5 the Son of God called himself "Jesus Christ, 'The Faithful Witness.'" When on earth as a man he was a Jew, an Israelite, to whose nation the words of Isaiah 43:10 were written: "'You are my witnesses, ' is the utterance of Jehovah, 'even my servant whom I have chosen.'" Jesus demonstrated that he was a faithful and true witness of Jehovah God. His genuine disciples today must be the same kind of witnesses, Jehovah's.