Highest Level Programmer/Hacker: "I only do my programming and hacking on the highest level, social engineering. I don't even touch the keyboard anymore. I just manipulate people and have them do that task for me."
This is what is known as a "Software manager", or possibly, "Senior Developer" who spend 70% of their time reviewing other people's code and 30% of their time in meetings.
If you see the amount of assembly generated for a simple printf(“hello world”); you’d see why it’s an high level language, maybe the first of this type, but there is still lots of abstraction in C, I think generally you refer to C as a low level because it gives you memory control like no others probably, which is also a bad thing 😅
This video came at the right time for me. I'm a backend engineer working primarily in Python, but I've been feeling an urge to start tinkering with something lower level. I want to start datamining games but I have no idea how to do it given the files are encrypted. I found your channel because I was looking for stuff on reverse engineering.
@@TheVirtualArena24 not necessarily. It just shouldn't be used for everything. It's just a bit of a meme due to its weird behavior and funky ecosystem.
Wheeew - simply couldn't agree more. I've been coding casually, but also to a degree professionally (Think DevOps as opposed to developer) for nigh on 20 years. A few years ago I started to pick up, essentially, what this video says - I dipped my toe into Reverse Engineering, I started playing with C, and I started writing embedded software for STM32 devices (and now Raspberry Pico) in C & now Rust. Without a doubt, I've learnt more in 2 years of those projects than in the preceeding 18 despite having a vast list of succesful projects under my belt. Modern software just abstracts SO much - honestly, I would say I didn't even really, truly, understand arrays and lists until I learnt C. And then you start writing embedded and realise there is no memory allocater, and THEN it gets interesting all over again. I just wish I'd picked this stuff up 20 years ago.
As someone in the automotive industry for 30 years I am looking into embedded c & misra c variants. Every night I'm learning the c language and the concepts arrays, pointers, recursion, etc etc. What path, data structure, and/or syntax would you say is the best to concentrate more on?
I tried to write a blinker led example in assembly before for an Arduino nano before and it was challenging and teaches a lot of stuff, so seeing you releasing a video about that topic exactly made feel more confident that i'm in right way
Lowest level programming is one of my favorite RUclips channels ever. When I first got into tech I was pushed more towards front and engineering which is all fine and dandy but I found that I wanted to learn how the hardware interacts with the software. A lot of people seem to think that that is not needed anymore but I came to find out that a lot of people who have those skills are retiring or literally dying off. So I predict that there is going to be a high need for people that understand very low level code - even if there are not as many job openings as say JavaScript Developers, companies will have a hard time finding people for low level jobs.
@@bensonboys6609 Glad to be of help. It won't replace a real class on the subject and I highly recommend you to check on Boolean algebra (and a few basic theorems such as DeMorgan's) to avoid being stuck at some puzzles as I deed ✌️
Get a uC like any Atmel ATMega. Code with C, later use ASM and toggle some outputs, control a motor, led, pumps etc. and create a small project like an automatic water pump that pours water on a plant when it's getting too dry (measure impedance between two nails).
Writing OS from scratch was the best learning experience for me. It didn't have userspace or scheduler, but it gave me the basic idea of how computers work.
@@trots4940 I mean, it depends on what you are emulating. If it's an old virtual machine like Chip-8, it's pretty damn easy, if you are already a programmer it can be done over a weekend, and I'd expect a student to be able to do it in a couple weeks. Real hardware stuff is definitely trickier, and sometimes you have to deal with things you might not realize on otherwise simple systems. Like when I started making an Atari 2600 emulator, the CPU and memory emulation portions were quite simple, but so much of that system is dependent on NTSC emulation as all the timings come from the TV for that system, and so I didn't get graphics up and running nearly as easily as I thought I would. NES is actually not tooooo bad if you are focused on just the simplest mapper (emulating Donkey Kong) though I haven't actually done that one myself yet (it's next on my list). I haven't explored Intellivision but it might actually be a really good candidate for emulation practice as well, as it's a bit more advanced than Atari but still not super complicated hardware-wise.
There's a lot of focus on how your cpu does things, and honestly there's a lot I personally could learn there but I think the one topic you might be overlooking is how memory access and caching works. I spent a few months reading and learning about efficient use of cpu caching (and as a result efficient multicore programming) and it blew my mind what a difference it made. I recommend the paper What Every Programmer Should Know About Memory by Ulrich Drepper.
The issue in my domain is that the juice will never be worth the squeeze. I will NEVER have a business case that would justify using a lower level language. There is FAR too much value to be unlocked with just Python and nothing else.
Having coded for Motorola 6809E and some 68k back in the 90s, the one thing that I've noticed over the last few decades is that people in our technical field have lost the ability to troubleshoot. Learning by making mistakes also seems to be stigmatised somewhat. It's by going through this process and stumbling and failing, then being able to find your bugs that you learn. The ability to leverage internet searches at your fingertips and the collective knowledge of peers is incredible today compared to 30 years ago. And of course "Digital Intelligence"(AI) has also spoiled us. Learning the low level is great but not everyone necessarily appreciates it significance. Do modern curriculums at university even teach it anymore? Or is it merely that the amount of compute at our fingertips spoils us? Loving your videos and thank goodness for people like you. 👍
I follow this channel a lot, and I really like C/kernels and low-level programming in general. Would you say for someone who's not a beginner but not an expert either to learn concepts from a book first, lets say operating system internals/kernels and then apply those concepts/implementation? I've been trying to learn and understand all things low-level and hopefully someday land a job in this niche field but I only have experience in high-level web/mobile development.
"Before you take a plane, learn how planes work; before you take a ride, learn how vehicle motors work". See how ridiculous is that? Same with computers. Developer here. I have been working with computers for 8 years, and while certainly would be of help to know how things work "at the low level", that's definitely not an issue for the average aspiring developers.
The right analogy would be, say, flying a plane or performing maintenance on one. Incidentally one of the industries that's suffering the most under the competence crisis.
Love that last part about tricking rocks to think. My own personal definition of magic is "the ability to manipulate reality with consciousness". When it comes to computers I think we do just that, which is part of what makes it so cool.
I'd love LOVE love to see a video about the best practices for rewriting a high level lang to low, I can interpret x86 asm perfectly and vice versa but when I'm RE'ing I tend to create something that's only good enough to run. Great video fren
I wished you’d provide excellent links. There’s a lot of trash online and helping people find good sources will make them work out what’s a good source and what’s trash.
The best advice in my opinion is to learn Delphi. With the Pascal language and inline assembly, you have maximal low level abilities, but get to produce a useful, tractable Win32 native app with a GUI form editor and very useful RTL which is way cleaner than Cpp STL.
Absolutely spot on! I'm retired after 45 years in my career that started first in hardware (Data General Nova and Eclipse), assembly programming on the same. I learned C from the first edition of K&R C Programming language writing network software for bridging the minicomputers to Novell PC based networks. Knowing the internal register architecture was key to understanding every processor I've used since. I can't quantify how many hours I spent in CodeView hybrid view where the C code was shown in assembly for debugging. I spend most days even now in C on the various microcontrollers enjoying embedded programming. The ties between hardware understanding and programming is essential.
Hey I wanted to ask if K&R is the best for a completely new programmer, don't know anything. Will it take me from 0 or does it expect me to be at 30 to take me to 99?
@@Zeni-th. The K&R book was a reference for us when the C language was new. Now there are so many resources available, even for free, on the net that I wouldn't start with K&R. Even small platforms like the Arduino are excellent to learn C programming and the number of example programs is astronomical (and with the Arduino/ESP platforms you can extend your learning into Python easily as well.) Great place to start,
Using C, you can not create big things but you can apply your knowledge on small and outdated things. Using object oriented concept, you can create complex but efficient architecture.
I have a lot of interest in low level coding and low level knowledge of computers. But my main interest is graphics programming and game development, it is what I am learning now. And, to learn how to write shaders and graphics code (openGL, directX, etc), it is almost mandatory to understand the low level of things, how a GPU works, how data transfer and access works, etc. Liked a lot your video! Will try to make a OpenGL 3D renderer in pure C (Right now I code in C++ at work and use it to study too, together with GDScript for godot when not messing with low level)
Currently learning c and assembly at uni, and I gotta say, this is hell. Maybe it's because the teaching tactics at my uni are equivalent to throwing someone into a river in hopes they would learn how to swim, and calling them a lazy idiot if they ask questions. Idk, it seems like a lot of things are so complicated, I would never learn them well enough for this knowledge to actually be useful. Isn't it better to rely on a safety net of a language like python, if that means I can do things I like, and not waste years of my life and destroy my health trying to become assembly expert?
Understanding what is programming, how electrical pulses from wires comes to CPS and converted into 0s and 1s. and how the OS works while program executes. It's just too good to know all these and helps me alot in my compiler design and automata languages. Also in many subjects of CS
As an embedded developer, I couldn't agree more. The only thing that is quite alien to me and will likely always be is X86 assembly. I dabbled into it way back when Real Mode was the only mode you'd use, but when I look at 64-bits code, I don't understand a thing. But then again, I hardly program anything for the PC - mostly just tools for my actual work, and those tools often are written in Python. But I do understand ARM assembly to some degree, and I worked a lot in assembly on different 8-bit MCUs. There was a time when I even knew most of the 8051 opcodes and could basically read a hex dump as if it were an assembler listing.... 😅 And when it comes to STM32 - while their idea of generating a lot of code for you is nice, the code is usually pretty terrible. As is their Eclipse-based IDE (ugh), but fortunately you don't have to use it.
0:00 🎓 Focus on learning low-level concepts such as C programming language. 2:49 🧠 Understanding an assembly variant provides insights into CPU behavior and aids in code optimization. 3:56 🔍 Learning reverse engineering basics enhances understanding of code functionality and aids in debugging. 5:18 💡 Exploring embedded systems with boards like STM32 and writing C code for them enriches low-level understanding and practical skills.
LoL it's funny as I learned assembly before I even learned C! Turbo Pascal was a great low level language back in the early 90's as you could write whatever you needed in it but could easily embed assembler inside your Pascal code without needing external files. In fact, when the x86 made the jump from 16-bit registers to 32-bit. The current assembler in Turbo Pascal didn't know how to use them so we'd have to embed machine code nemonics inside our inline assembly code to use 32-bit instructions. If I recall correctly it was something like: db 0x66; Machine Language < Assembly Language < C/C++
To further discuss about C being low level, defining low level language will depend on what are you doing. If you are doing C programming and use a framework, can it still be called low level? Or is it like dialect where the language is the same (C) but how you use it can vary with framework to framework? Arduino framework literally abstract away a lot of things but still give you access to hw if you need to. But yeah, all things considered, C language has a compiler for most architecture so it's still quite universal while being able to do low level stuff.
@@LiveType yep. But it's sad to see that simpler architecture is being abandoned. Atmega is not being used on the newer Arduino model IIRC. I forgot the replacement but it was really more complex so I don't think it will be suitable for beginner learning.
I coded basic, m6809 assembler (really got to know the computer well) and then C on Sun computers, linux, Raspberry Pi and then microcontrollers. I agree that it is good to understand the hardware as (hopefully) the code will be streamlined for easy conversion in to machine language.
I've done the exact steps but backwards. started on an Atmel chip (before Arduino was cool), then reverse engineering, learned assembly along the way and recently I wrote a lot of C. And I still somehow don't hate javascript.
Years ago I stumbled upon Ben Eater and followed along with his 8-bit breadboard computer. I understand how logic operates on the physical level but I didn't know any code. So I went the complete polar opposite and learned Python. Now I'm learning C++ and working my way back down. It's cool because in my head when I'm thinking about a problem I weigh the time/effort of soldering components vs coding it up.
I'd like to learn low level. and this is no critique, but in my current use case I see it more pragmatic using my time to create or find established high level solutions to solve my current problems.
3:08 I think the problem with that is that modern compilers perform so many optimizations that it's mostly not possible to guess what a given piece of code will compile to unless it's a trivial case. Absolutely agree that you should know how a CPU works, but imo actually going to the assembly level only becomes relevant when you're writing high performance code or want to know some specific detail about your code
It's pretty easy to copy past JavaScript into C, mostly you end up changing 'const', 'let' and 'var' into the C types. If you use typescript convert the type definitions into structs and for the last trick convert the function defs into C style functions. For all the JS haters, the syntax is designed to be close to C.
First Rust will never supersede C if that case it might be Zig. But I think C will never be superseded just because of the sheer quantity of C code that will never be rewritten because it would be a waste of capital. There’s far less COBOL and we still have cobol running and still seeking developers to maintain it. Master quantum physics than you’ll approximate understanding as to how electrons behave in silicon. But I agree with your list. Sane must I push on people.
It may be a good idea to learn assembly for a 6502 or 6510. It's very basic (no pun intended) and it helps you learn the basics with minimal registers, and a very limited instruction set. I think you may be able to find a C64 emulator with an assembler.
Personally, I don't have much hope for future generations to understand the lower level concepts. I hope they prove me wrong and keep the knowledge of how to do all of this alive.
Programming at a low level is pretty easy. In my youth, after I learned BASIC I start programming 6502 assembly on my school's Apple IIe. Programming in a modern language and knowing how the memory models work is where the challenge is.
@@efdbjon2114Actually there really isn't. Sure if you are reverse engineering compiled code, you have to know how registers and the stack are used for calling functions, but there is nothing mysterious about assembly.
Come here after the stream. I’m BMDaemon, I asked about what book should you recommend to learn low level from ground up. I love your stream, thanks you so much. 😊
6:00 - definitely agree here. And... for that reason, I heartily recommend Ben Eater's channel. Build your own 8-bit CPU on a breadboard, and you'll learn so much! Then take it up a notch with the 6502-based computer, too, if you want something _a little_ closer to modern. :)
Learning c is alright but Learning circuit design and logic gates is where the magic happens. You could type c code on a type writer until you fingers bleed and it wont do anything
Bah. When I was learning systems-level programming, we could look at a hexdump and understand what the program was doing! 🙂 ( This can prove to be useful, if you're looking at some large block of data and you suddenly realize "hey, this *DATA* sure looks like about a dozen valid instructions to the CPU - how could that happen?!!" )
the only C programming I had to do was for a custom split keyboard (corne or the crkbd/r2g), and it was an interesting experience having to prioritize features and optimize the code to fit on a very small memory space (im coming from C#, Python and similar stuff)
Wow your closing statement is something I have thought about before. Especially since today almost any developer job is mostly using dependencies and working in the higher level which ofcoure is fine because it's more time and quality efficient but I have questioned whether with time developers will forget how the lower level works.
I've been looking at your videos, and I really think that they're of great value for any programmer, especially those who learned through high level languages. I'm really impressed. Great job.! I'd recommend your channel to anyone. Btw, would you recommend any particular assembler for the arm64 architecture? I'd like to build up a forth system from scratch.
Getting a better understanding of low level is underrated for developers who are used to work with high level languages. I myself sort of stumbled into getting familiar with reverse engineering and assembly through retro game modding and it dramatically enriched the way I think about software. Luckily some c++ experience had me used to the idea of looking at memory directly, that's another one I think is very underrated. It's that extra bit of context that completes the picture.
I learned basic then assembly on an Atari 1200xl back in the early 80s'. Once we started using Apple II computers in junior high school, I learned Pascal and C on it. Since then I've read countless books on various architectures and I can't tell you how learning assembly and C has made my life so much easier. I didn't have the Internet back then, so computer magazines like Antic, Analog, PC Magazine and others, and later bulletin board systems, were my main source of learning how other people wrote code. I reverse engineered numerous programs to learn how professional programmers wrote programs, and I learned a lot of tricks from that back then. The last 30 years as a Software Engineer have been so much easier and fun because of learning the basics of how various processors and architectures work, and how to get them to do what you want using assembly and C. Sure, C++ and C# are my daily drivers for Windows applications; but for fast routines, I still rely on C and assembly.
I feel liek C doesn't do the "forces you to write bulletproof". It will absolutely let you shoot your foot with little concern. Rust FORCES you to write bulletproof, since. itwill just refuse to compile.
For all of the most common CPU's, x86, ARM, Etc., is there a common core of OP Codes, where you write it once in assembly, and will work on most processors? ADD, JMP, MOV, Etc.... Can you write all of your programs with 30 OP Codes or less? How do you write assembly with energy efficiency as a goal?
Bottom up? Top down? None of both: Start in the middle. Learn C, its syntax, procedural flow, understand memory and pointers, call by reference and so on. This will naturally lead you into more binary representations of data. While you learn this, apply it and build more complex datastructures of your own. Explore abstractions, function pointers, callbacks. And best case: do it all on an embedded system. That will also involve some electronics and before you know it, you've become a maker. Starting with assembly (low) or stuff like modern C++ (high) is counter productive IMO.
Get a bunch of datasheets online and learn to understand flight times in devices like logic, programmable logic, common microcontrollers, and overview of the interfaces/buses your code is working with. Go through the pain of doing a bit a math for a little while and not only will you become a sniper for particularly difficult groups of bugs to reproduce/fix you'll also be much less likely to code something like that in production. Coding snippets that "break" silicon and then heal it *magically* are sort of fun to do and frequently you even end up finding an actual silicon or microcode bug of your own; exercising code should be something you do often while learning to instrument your debug versions, and in doing so you'll find quirks (every system has some somewhere in it) and "fix them in software".
I honestly think the very first level is building a Ben Eater computer from the ground up. It gives context for why certain logic functions work the way they do because you're playing with the actual physical mechanisms of the computer.
I never learned C, but assembly first on C64 and later x86 assembly on intel 80286 starting with DOS Debug, but without internet. Today we can download intel developer manuals for x86 CPU and documents from AMD too. In the last time i used batch files as an open source container to put x86 assembly instructions inside to build a routine to create tiny executable files for the Dosbox emulator. I made some videos(no speech) to show how it works and to share the batch files. Have fun.😊
As a current "gray beard" that's clean shaven most of the time I can attest to the fact that "we" are getting ready to be done with this world and move on to the next- everything I like to do no longer pays and what I do get paid for is depressing and sad
I've been in a sort of programming limbo, where I've been jumping from web to data, from data to network and have been intaking a lot of knowledge but accomplishing near to none. Your RUclips channel has directed me towards my niche in programming and I cannot thank you enough.
C was the first language I learned. I was in highschool doing a bridge program to the local community college The next semester I took a programming in c++ class that had the c class as a prerequisite
I saw some dudes hack a building and play pacman with basically the entire building's light system (appartment room lights included) and that from hundreds of meters away (go check the video it's insane). They basically managed to install a soft on some micro-controller. That soft understands the building's electric map and treats your living room light as a pixel. A legit device/building-light driver. A clever interface capable of translating the hardware information into a graphic buffer reprensenting the 2D coordinates as well as the on/off information of each light. AND they connected it to a laptop (god knows how) and played using the keyboard with no GUI besides the building GUI LOL and some linux termial (I suppose) chilling on the laptop screen. All that just to say that hacking a process is so much sexier than hacking data.
That would be if the video was "before you use a computer..." not "before you code...". I honestly think it is closer to think of it as "before you design a car, learn how a car works", but that's obviously a bit exaggerated. It depends on what you're trying to achieve by coding, really.
"Discuss in the comments..." Well, the first programming course I took in college was "High Level Programming 1" - and it was taught in C. But that was 20+ years ago. I take no fervent stance on if it's "high" or "low" today. It's the lowest you can go, (semi) portably.
I believe C is a high level language because it abstracts things from assembly quite a bit, but still gives you the freedom to control the memory you use at will, safely or in an unsafe manner. Because of the abstraction, I think it should be considered high level, but I also don't think it's high level compared to other high level languages, just a high level language that gives access to some lower level functions to work with and take less time than writing assembly
Want to learn how computers work? Check out my courses at lowlevel.academy !
free?
Exactly.
"Get my free course" button doesn't work
I think to learn the lowest level, the first thing you learn is how to identify copper ore. More practically, maybe nandgame.
acquire rock. shoot lightning into rock. make rock think. observe
If you are not assembling the copper atoms by hand from subatomic particles is it even low level?
@@LowLevel-TV i did not expect to see you here
he is too deep
Copper? Copper is nothing except being constructed above silicone. Master silicone, master computers.
1- code in low level
2- Learn an Assembly variant
3 Learn Reverse Engineering
4- Pick up a board to learn write C on it
5- code in python
6 - go for web career
7 - You may now code in scratch
8- Change the field and learn Biology. You have wasted much of your life on a screen. 😂
You mean 0,1,2,3. That's a top 3 remember
C program teaches you that with great powers comes great responsibilities
C is the super programming language, or as i read in my college, C is God's programming language
@@melficexd Holy C the goat/TempleOS😂
@@melficexdclearly your college needs more LISP
God only had 6 days, he didn't have time to debug seg faults.
very nicely said
and big fuck ups -- which is how we learn
"We tricked rocks into thinking." I love this.
🤯
@@EdWestfieldJr 🤯
You’re not the only one cursed with knowledge - Thanos
@@mourneris wait i dont get it? Hahahahaha
@@bluewater5588 CPUs are made of sand
Highest Level Programmer/Hacker: "I only do my programming and hacking on the highest level, social engineering. I don't even touch the keyboard anymore. I just manipulate people and have them do that task for me."
You work in the 'news'?
Haha😂 So true, love this comment
This is what is known as a "Software manager", or possibly, "Senior Developer" who spend 70% of their time reviewing other people's code and 30% of their time in meetings.
Ah yes. Thats what Linus Torvalds taught me back in 2007
no need to use a fancy tool if you just call them up, pretend you're their district manager, and ask for their password
Ed, "Before you learn how to code, all you have to do is ALREADY know how to code. It just makes learning how to code so much better "
If C is not low level, Python is raw English
It all depends on what you compare with haha. Back in early 80s C was for sure considered pretty high level
Compared to electrical signals, asm is a high-level language!
@@losing_interest_in_everything yes let’s go back to the basics. Love those old punch cards as well. Back when women did a lot of the coding
@@litjellyfish That's how I learned what legacy code is ^^'
If you see the amount of assembly generated for a simple printf(“hello world”); you’d see why it’s an high level language, maybe the first of this type, but there is still lots of abstraction in C, I think generally you refer to C as a low level because it gives you memory control like no others probably, which is also a bad thing 😅
This video came at the right time for me. I'm a backend engineer working primarily in Python, but I've been feeling an urge to start tinkering with something lower level. I want to start datamining games but I have no idea how to do it given the files are encrypted. I found your channel because I was looking for stuff on reverse engineering.
Learning Cryptography may help
INP: "a"
Base 8: 141 | Octal
Base 10: 97
Base 16: 61 | Hexadecimal
B Stack | 001000 => 512
“Or… God forbid… Javascript…” Yup, very accurate! 😂😂😂
Is js bad?
@@TheVirtualArena24 not necessarily. It just shouldn't be used for everything. It's just a bit of a meme due to its weird behavior and funky ecosystem.
@@multivitamin7 ohh ok
I remember trying to learn JS after first learning C and Python, some of the behavior in that language blows my mind that it's as widespread as it is
@@moistnar true but the same can kinda be said for python as well. Python is also super quirky.
Wheeew - simply couldn't agree more. I've been coding casually, but also to a degree professionally (Think DevOps as opposed to developer) for nigh on 20 years. A few years ago I started to pick up, essentially, what this video says - I dipped my toe into Reverse Engineering, I started playing with C, and I started writing embedded software for STM32 devices (and now Raspberry Pico) in C & now Rust. Without a doubt, I've learnt more in 2 years of those projects than in the preceeding 18 despite having a vast list of succesful projects under my belt. Modern software just abstracts SO much - honestly, I would say I didn't even really, truly, understand arrays and lists until I learnt C. And then you start writing embedded and realise there is no memory allocater, and THEN it gets interesting all over again. I just wish I'd picked this stuff up 20 years ago.
As someone in the automotive industry for 30 years I am looking into embedded c & misra c variants. Every night I'm learning the c language and the concepts arrays, pointers, recursion, etc etc. What path, data structure, and/or syntax would you say is the best to concentrate more on?
@@GL0697 If you are following MISRA, then you really should just read the document. It instructs you on the do and don't with the reason why.
@@YandiBanyu I guess I'm looking for practice problems/projects that I can do to learn. So far it's just scouring the internet.
I tried to write a blinker led example in assembly before for an Arduino nano before and it was challenging and teaches a lot of stuff, so seeing you releasing a video about that topic exactly made feel more confident that i'm in right way
0:47 "God forbid Javascript." LOL!
@@Danny-hj2qg why all the hate for js ?
Lowest level programming is one of my favorite RUclips channels ever. When I first got into tech I was pushed more towards front and engineering which is all fine and dandy but I found that I wanted to learn how the hardware interacts with the software. A lot of people seem to think that that is not needed anymore but I came to find out that a lot of people who have those skills are retiring or literally dying off.
So I predict that there is going to be a high need for people that understand very low level code - even if there are not as many job openings as say JavaScript Developers, companies will have a hard time finding people for low level jobs.
Turing complete on steam teaches you how a computer work from the very beginning in a very pedagogical way, it's very nice.
Now I want to look into it! Thank you! I did not know this existed!
@@bensonboys6609 Glad to be of help. It won't replace a real class on the subject and I highly recommend you to check on Boolean algebra (and a few basic theorems such as DeMorgan's) to avoid being stuck at some puzzles as I deed ✌️
I like your mindset, teaching people low level as we move into more abstract and advanced tech. You're doing gods work.
Spot on with technological advancement abstracting us away from the metal.
Get a uC like any Atmel ATMega.
Code with C, later use ASM and toggle some outputs, control a motor, led, pumps etc. and create a small project like an automatic water pump that pours water on a plant when it's getting too dry (measure impedance between two nails).
Writing OS from scratch was the best learning experience for me. It didn't have userspace or scheduler, but it gave me the basic idea of how computers work.
In my opinion, the best way to learn low-level stuff is to write a compiler back end from scratch.
Interpreters and emulators are quite good for this too, and are good stepping stones before compiler.
@@PushyPixels Is it easier to make an emulator than to make a compiler? I thought it was the opposite
@@trots4940 it's not that hard to make emulator that just works but way more harder to make it run fast and not consume too much memory
@@МихаилТихомиров-м8ч It makes sense. I really want to make some simple games in assembly too, I think it's a good way to learn it
@@trots4940 I mean, it depends on what you are emulating. If it's an old virtual machine like Chip-8, it's pretty damn easy, if you are already a programmer it can be done over a weekend, and I'd expect a student to be able to do it in a couple weeks. Real hardware stuff is definitely trickier, and sometimes you have to deal with things you might not realize on otherwise simple systems. Like when I started making an Atari 2600 emulator, the CPU and memory emulation portions were quite simple, but so much of that system is dependent on NTSC emulation as all the timings come from the TV for that system, and so I didn't get graphics up and running nearly as easily as I thought I would. NES is actually not tooooo bad if you are focused on just the simplest mapper (emulating Donkey Kong) though I haven't actually done that one myself yet (it's next on my list). I haven't explored Intellivision but it might actually be a really good candidate for emulation practice as well, as it's a bit more advanced than Atari but still not super complicated hardware-wise.
There's a lot of focus on how your cpu does things, and honestly there's a lot I personally could learn there but I think the one topic you might be overlooking is how memory access and caching works. I spent a few months reading and learning about efficient use of cpu caching (and as a result efficient multicore programming) and it blew my mind what a difference it made. I recommend the paper What Every Programmer Should Know About Memory by Ulrich Drepper.
Step 0: learn what all of these words mean
I personally felt attacked when he said God forbid JavaScript 😂😂😂😂
The issue in my domain is that the juice will never be worth the squeeze. I will NEVER have a business case that would justify using a lower level language. There is FAR too much value to be unlocked with just Python and nothing else.
Probably the best advice to learn a language is writing an HTTP server. Solid advice.
C is a layer directly on top of assembler, and is best approached on this basis.
Having coded for Motorola 6809E and some 68k back in the 90s, the one thing that I've noticed over the last few decades is that people in our technical field have lost the ability to troubleshoot. Learning by making mistakes also seems to be stigmatised somewhat. It's by going through this process and stumbling and failing, then being able to find your bugs that you learn. The ability to leverage internet searches at your fingertips and the collective knowledge of peers is incredible today compared to 30 years ago. And of course "Digital Intelligence"(AI) has also spoiled us. Learning the low level is great but not everyone necessarily appreciates it significance. Do modern curriculums at university even teach it anymore? Or is it merely that the amount of compute at our fingertips spoils us? Loving your videos and thank goodness for people like you. 👍
I follow this channel a lot, and I really like C/kernels and low-level programming in general. Would you say for someone who's not a beginner but not an expert either to learn concepts from a book first, lets say operating system internals/kernels and then apply those concepts/implementation? I've been trying to learn and understand all things low-level and hopefully someday land a job in this niche field but I only have experience in high-level web/mobile development.
I was lucky to have started my programming journey with c++. Then learned html, css, JavaScript. Then c and assembly.
"Before you take a plane, learn how planes work; before you take a ride, learn how vehicle motors work". See how ridiculous is that? Same with computers. Developer here. I have been working with computers for 8 years, and while certainly would be of help to know how things work "at the low level", that's definitely not an issue for the average aspiring developers.
The right analogy would be, say, flying a plane or performing maintenance on one. Incidentally one of the industries that's suffering the most under the competence crisis.
Lmao, I opened your website from the description and my antivirus immediately flagged it as a malware.
Love that last part about tricking rocks to think. My own personal definition of magic is "the ability to manipulate reality with consciousness". When it comes to computers I think we do just that, which is part of what makes it so cool.
I tried it with chatgpt, but it creates to much error.
Thank you for creating such insightful and helpful content keep posting! first understand the system next learning the system
Best description I've heard for a computer "We literally tricked rocks into thinking"
c is so high level when asked if it wants soup or salad it responds with 'super salad?'
I'm a hobbyist with higher languages and this video got me interested in lower languages! Thank you very much, subbed!
I'd love LOVE love to see a video about the best practices for rewriting a high level lang to low, I can interpret x86 asm perfectly and vice versa but when I'm RE'ing I tend to create something that's only good enough to run.
Great video fren
I wished you’d provide excellent links. There’s a lot of trash online and helping people find good sources will make them work out what’s a good source and what’s trash.
I love Your work. Your knowledge spreading and enthusiasm is contagious!
Keep on being like that.
You mean, enthusiASM? 😂
The best advice in my opinion is to learn Delphi. With the Pascal language and inline assembly, you have maximal low level abilities, but get to produce a useful, tractable Win32 native app with a GUI form editor and very useful RTL which is way cleaner than Cpp STL.
Thank you for guiding me. I always enjoy learning about how computer stuff works. Thanks for your amazing content!
Absolutely spot on! I'm retired after 45 years in my career that started first in hardware (Data General Nova and Eclipse), assembly programming on the same. I learned C from the first edition of K&R C Programming language writing network software for bridging the minicomputers to Novell PC based networks. Knowing the internal register architecture was key to understanding every processor I've used since. I can't quantify how many hours I spent in CodeView hybrid view where the C code was shown in assembly for debugging. I spend most days even now in C on the various microcontrollers enjoying embedded programming. The ties between hardware understanding and programming is essential.
Hey I wanted to ask if K&R is the best for a completely new programmer, don't know anything.
Will it take me from 0 or does it expect me to be at 30 to take me to 99?
@@Zeni-th. The K&R book was a reference for us when the C language was new. Now there are so many resources available, even for free, on the net that I wouldn't start with K&R. Even small platforms like the Arduino are excellent to learn C programming and the number of example programs is astronomical (and with the Arduino/ESP platforms you can extend your learning into Python easily as well.)
Great place to start,
Using C, you can not create big things but you can apply your knowledge on small and outdated things. Using object oriented concept, you can create complex but efficient architecture.
You have to wonder how complex but efficient things were made before the common use of object oriented concept.
I have a lot of interest in low level coding and low level knowledge of computers. But my main interest is graphics programming and game development, it is what I am learning now. And, to learn how to write shaders and graphics code (openGL, directX, etc), it is almost mandatory to understand the low level of things, how a GPU works, how data transfer and access works, etc. Liked a lot your video! Will try to make a OpenGL 3D renderer in pure C (Right now I code in C++ at work and use it to study too, together with GDScript for godot when not messing with low level)
Thanks for creating this channel. I am also amazed about how we tricked rocks into thinking, and I want to learn as much as I can about it!
Currently learning c and assembly at uni, and I gotta say, this is hell. Maybe it's because the teaching tactics at my uni are equivalent to throwing someone into a river in hopes they would learn how to swim, and calling them a lazy idiot if they ask questions.
Idk, it seems like a lot of things are so complicated, I would never learn them well enough for this knowledge to actually be useful. Isn't it better to rely on a safety net of a language like python, if that means I can do things I like, and not waste years of my life and destroy my health trying to become assembly expert?
Understanding what is programming, how electrical pulses from wires comes to CPS and converted into 0s and 1s. and how the OS works while program executes. It's just too good to know all these and helps me alot in my compiler design and automata languages. Also in many subjects of CS
Please bring back low level review. I have a great project for your channel
nand to tetris - amazing. Learning about logic gates was mind blowing
As an embedded developer, I couldn't agree more.
The only thing that is quite alien to me and will likely always be is X86 assembly. I dabbled into it way back when Real Mode was the only mode you'd use, but when I look at 64-bits code, I don't understand a thing. But then again, I hardly program anything for the PC - mostly just tools for my actual work, and those tools often are written in Python. But I do understand ARM assembly to some degree, and I worked a lot in assembly on different 8-bit MCUs. There was a time when I even knew most of the 8051 opcodes and could basically read a hex dump as if it were an assembler listing.... 😅
And when it comes to STM32 - while their idea of generating a lot of code for you is nice, the code is usually pretty terrible. As is their Eclipse-based IDE (ugh), but fortunately you don't have to use it.
0:00 🎓 Focus on learning low-level concepts such as C programming language.
2:49 🧠 Understanding an assembly variant provides insights into CPU behavior and aids in code optimization.
3:56 🔍 Learning reverse engineering basics enhances understanding of code functionality and aids in debugging.
5:18 💡 Exploring embedded systems with boards like STM32 and writing C code for them enriches low-level understanding and practical skills.
LoL it's funny as I learned assembly before I even learned C! Turbo Pascal was a great low level language back in the early 90's as you could write whatever you needed in it but could easily embed assembler inside your Pascal code without needing external files.
In fact, when the x86 made the jump from 16-bit registers to 32-bit. The current assembler in Turbo Pascal didn't know how to use them so we'd have to embed machine code nemonics inside our inline assembly code to use 32-bit instructions. If I recall correctly it was something like:
db 0x66;
Machine Language < Assembly Language < C/C++
To further discuss about C being low level, defining low level language will depend on what are you doing. If you are doing C programming and use a framework, can it still be called low level? Or is it like dialect where the language is the same (C) but how you use it can vary with framework to framework? Arduino framework literally abstract away a lot of things but still give you access to hw if you need to. But yeah, all things considered, C language has a compiler for most architecture so it's still quite universal while being able to do low level stuff.
@@LiveType yep. But it's sad to see that simpler architecture is being abandoned. Atmega is not being used on the newer Arduino model IIRC. I forgot the replacement but it was really more complex so I don't think it will be suitable for beginner learning.
I coded basic, m6809 assembler (really got to know the computer well) and then C on Sun computers, linux, Raspberry Pi and then microcontrollers. I agree that it is good to understand the hardware as (hopefully) the code will be streamlined for easy conversion in to machine language.
I've done the exact steps but backwards. started on an Atmel chip (before Arduino was cool), then reverse engineering, learned assembly along the way and recently I wrote a lot of C. And I still somehow don't hate javascript.
Years ago I stumbled upon Ben Eater and followed along with his 8-bit breadboard computer.
I understand how logic operates on the physical level but I didn't know any code.
So I went the complete polar opposite and learned Python.
Now I'm learning C++ and working my way back down.
It's cool because in my head when I'm thinking about a problem I weigh the time/effort of soldering components vs coding it up.
I'd like to learn low level. and this is no critique, but in my current use case I see it more pragmatic using my time to create or find established high level solutions to solve my current problems.
3:08 I think the problem with that is that modern compilers perform so many optimizations that it's mostly not possible to guess what a given piece of code will compile to unless it's a trivial case. Absolutely agree that you should know how a CPU works, but imo actually going to the assembly level only becomes relevant when you're writing high performance code or want to know some specific detail about your code
It's pretty easy to copy past JavaScript into C, mostly you end up changing 'const', 'let' and 'var' into the C types. If you use typescript convert the type definitions into structs and for the last trick convert the function defs into C style functions.
For all the JS haters, the syntax is designed to be close to C.
Is your last name really Faag-uilar?
The beauty of this approach is it's as degenerate as JavaScript itself and also at the same time is as degenerate as writing C in 2024. Happy coding!
This channel is a gold mine
First Rust will never supersede C if that case it might be Zig. But I think C will never be superseded just because of the sheer quantity of C code that will never be rewritten because it would be a waste of capital. There’s far less COBOL and we still have cobol running and still seeking developers to maintain it.
Master quantum physics than you’ll approximate understanding as to how electrons behave in silicon.
But I agree with your list. Sane must I push on people.
Loved the Skyrim reference with the greybeards comment! I still play it to this day. That was Todd Howard's true "magnum opus."
It may be a good idea to learn assembly for a 6502 or 6510. It's very basic (no pun intended) and it helps you learn the basics with minimal registers, and a very limited instruction set. I think you may be able to find a C64 emulator with an assembler.
Personally, I don't have much hope for future generations to understand the lower level concepts. I hope they prove me wrong and keep the knowledge of how to do all of this alive.
Programming at a low level is pretty easy. In my youth, after I learned BASIC I start programming 6502 assembly on my school's Apple IIe. Programming in a modern language and knowing how the memory models work is where the challenge is.
there is more to it than that
@@efdbjon2114Actually there really isn't. Sure if you are reverse engineering compiled code, you have to know how registers and the stack are used for calling functions, but there is nothing mysterious about assembly.
Come here after the stream.
I’m BMDaemon, I asked about what book should you recommend to learn low level from ground up.
I love your stream, thanks you so much. 😊
Subjective-C be like:
int x I think = 5;
6:00 - definitely agree here. And... for that reason, I heartily recommend Ben Eater's channel. Build your own 8-bit CPU on a breadboard, and you'll learn so much! Then take it up a notch with the 6502-based computer, too, if you want something _a little_ closer to modern. :)
Step 5: You are now able to reverse engineer your own goddamn code from last week to figure out what the heck is even going on there
Couldn't agree more, actually I'm going to take that first advice and write a http server in C.
C language is like assembly with bunch of labels and nicer look. I think that's the best answer for that.
Similar in many ways but also very different in many ways especially the dynamic part of C
FASM code looks pretty much like C
I feel assembly poor now. But really agree about the micro-controllers, they taught me so much
I wanted to make my channel a Python one, but C is the king no matter what, you are super right on everything!
Hey man, love your videos btw! I just recently completed my piscine and you helped me a lot.
@imprlanass are you talking about the 42 piscine ? I also just completed it in November and will be starting the core in May
@@AEONIC_MUSIC eyy congrats bro! Yes I’m talking about the 42 piscine, hope I’ll get accepted as well
@imprlanass I hope you do aswell it took a month or 2 before I was told anything
Learning c is alright but Learning circuit design and logic gates is where the magic happens.
You could type c code on a type writer until you fingers bleed and it wont do anything
Bah. When I was learning systems-level programming, we could look at a hexdump and understand what the program was doing! 🙂 ( This can prove to be useful, if you're looking at some large block of data and you suddenly realize "hey, this *DATA* sure looks like about a dozen valid instructions to the CPU - how could that happen?!!" )
the only C programming I had to do was for a custom split keyboard (corne or the crkbd/r2g), and it was an interesting experience having to prioritize features and optimize the code to fit on a very small memory space
(im coming from C#, Python and similar stuff)
Wow your closing statement is something I have thought about before. Especially since today almost any developer job is mostly using dependencies and working in the higher level which ofcoure is fine because it's more time and quality efficient but I have questioned whether with time developers will forget how the lower level works.
'Every program is open source if you know how to read assembly code"
-Pro Low level Programmer
I've been looking at your videos, and I really think that they're of great value for any programmer, especially those who learned through high level languages. I'm really impressed. Great job.! I'd recommend your channel to anyone.
Btw, would you recommend any particular assembler for the arm64 architecture? I'd like to build up a forth system from scratch.
Getting a better understanding of low level is underrated for developers who are used to work with high level languages. I myself sort of stumbled into getting familiar with reverse engineering and assembly through retro game modding and it dramatically enriched the way I think about software. Luckily some c++ experience had me used to the idea of looking at memory directly, that's another one I think is very underrated. It's that extra bit of context that completes the picture.
I learned basic then assembly on an Atari 1200xl back in the early 80s'. Once we started using Apple II computers in junior high school, I learned Pascal and C on it. Since then I've read countless books on various architectures and I can't tell you how learning assembly and C has made my life so much easier. I didn't have the Internet back then, so computer magazines like Antic, Analog, PC Magazine and others, and later bulletin board systems, were my main source of learning how other people wrote code. I reverse engineered numerous programs to learn how professional programmers wrote programs, and I learned a lot of tricks from that back then. The last 30 years as a Software Engineer have been so much easier and fun because of learning the basics of how various processors and architectures work, and how to get them to do what you want using assembly and C. Sure, C++ and C# are my daily drivers for Windows applications; but for fast routines, I still rely on C and assembly.
Bro i love how he says: "God Forbid, JavaScript"
lol bro single handedly made all js, Node, TS, whatever! programmers mad XD
2:05 what about TCP server? seems cooler for me
I feel liek C doesn't do the "forces you to write bulletproof". It will absolutely let you shoot your foot with little concern. Rust FORCES you to write bulletproof, since. itwill just refuse to compile.
For all of the most common CPU's, x86, ARM, Etc., is there a common core of OP Codes, where you write it once in assembly, and will work on most processors?
ADD, JMP, MOV, Etc....
Can you write all of your programs with 30 OP Codes or less?
How do you write assembly with energy efficiency as a goal?
Bottom up? Top down? None of both: Start in the middle. Learn C, its syntax, procedural flow, understand memory and pointers, call by reference and so on. This will naturally lead you into more binary representations of data. While you learn this, apply it and build more complex datastructures of your own. Explore abstractions, function pointers, callbacks. And best case: do it all on an embedded system. That will also involve some electronics and before you know it, you've become a maker. Starting with assembly (low) or stuff like modern C++ (high) is counter productive IMO.
Get a bunch of datasheets online and learn to understand flight times in devices like logic, programmable logic, common microcontrollers, and overview of the interfaces/buses your code is working with. Go through the pain of doing a bit a math for a little while and not only will you become a sniper for particularly difficult groups of bugs to reproduce/fix you'll also be much less likely to code something like that in production. Coding snippets that "break" silicon and then heal it *magically* are sort of fun to do and frequently you even end up finding an actual silicon or microcode bug of your own; exercising code should be something you do often while learning to instrument your debug versions, and in doing so you'll find quirks (every system has some somewhere in it) and "fix them in software".
It is absolutely important to understand the lower level sw .... There are very few kernel , firmware , system software engineers.
I honestly think the very first level is building a Ben Eater computer from the ground up. It gives context for why certain logic functions work the way they do because you're playing with the actual physical mechanisms of the computer.
I never learned C, but assembly first on C64 and later x86 assembly on intel 80286 starting with DOS Debug, but without internet. Today we can download intel developer manuals for x86 CPU and documents from AMD too.
In the last time i used batch files as an open source container to put x86 assembly instructions inside to build a routine to create tiny executable files for the Dosbox emulator. I made some videos(no speech) to show how it works and to share the batch files. Have fun.😊
As a current "gray beard" that's clean shaven most of the time I can attest to the fact that "we" are getting ready to be done with this world and move on to the next- everything I like to do no longer pays and what I do get paid for is depressing and sad
What an incredible idea for a channel. Instant sub.
Very lovely sentiments at 6:00
I've been in a sort of programming limbo, where I've been jumping from web to data, from data to network and have been intaking a lot of knowledge but accomplishing near to none. Your RUclips channel has directed me towards my niche in programming and I cannot thank you enough.
C was the first language I learned. I was in highschool doing a bridge program to the local community college
The next semester I took a programming in c++ class that had the c class as a prerequisite
I saw some dudes hack a building and play pacman with basically the entire building's light system (appartment room lights included) and that from hundreds of meters away (go check the video it's insane).
They basically managed to install a soft on some micro-controller.
That soft understands the building's electric map and treats your living room light as a pixel.
A legit device/building-light driver.
A clever interface capable of translating the hardware information into a graphic buffer reprensenting the 2D coordinates as well as the on/off information of each light.
AND they connected it to a laptop (god knows how) and played using the keyboard with no GUI besides the building GUI LOL and some linux termial (I suppose) chilling on the laptop screen.
All that just to say that hacking a process is so much sexier than hacking data.
"to drive a car, you must learn Mechanical and Electrical Engineering" aah video
bro cant code in c
@@underview8492 can you? 😂
That would be if the video was "before you use a computer..." not "before you code...".
I honestly think it is closer to think of it as "before you design a car, learn how a car works", but that's obviously a bit exaggerated. It depends on what you're trying to achieve by coding, really.
@@underview8492 why tf would I need C if I'm a Web developer?
"Discuss in the comments..." Well, the first programming course I took in college was "High Level Programming 1" - and it was taught in C. But that was 20+ years ago. I take no fervent stance on if it's "high" or "low" today. It's the lowest you can go, (semi) portably.
I believe C is a high level language because it abstracts things from assembly quite a bit, but still gives you the freedom to control the memory you use at will, safely or in an unsafe manner. Because of the abstraction, I think it should be considered high level, but I also don't think it's high level compared to other high level languages, just a high level language that gives access to some lower level functions to work with and take less time than writing assembly
"possibly pass away" implying that Linus Torvald might also just be immortal
Wow.. last part was amazing about channel philosophy 😊❤
Great video, you gained another subscriber. Please consider making more such videos.