Baeclast #86 Has Kalandra League Ruined Path of Exile?
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- Get your popcorn ready and get cosy for our spiciest Poe podcast yet, as we reflect on the Lake of Kalandra launch.
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#PoE #lakeofkalandra #Baeclast
We had some last minute technical difficulties with BK's mic so apologies for any frustration there. I had boosted it as loud as possible on my end.
chris dint wanna talk lol. the problem is they think its fixed, which is an absolute joke
@@DeadInsideDave To be fair, it probably wouldn't be productive and just give the community more quotes to throw back at him. Productive feedback interaction should be with game design people, and things are waaay too hot right now for any of them to put their faces out here.
Given the communication and changes that have happened so far, I actually can't think of any productive conversation that could possibly happen at this point in time other than a massive backpedaling on GGG's side, which would be nice IMO but it's not going to happen.
We have to buy a camera for BK 😉
The closed captions still picked them up and did a pretty good job.
That's a bummer. BK has a great voice.
Actually the Kalandra lore disproves that she is related to Sin and Innocence (or any gods). Although she does say that gods are “thieves of virtue” and Sin is named the “Thief of Virtue”.
And I’ve seen up through etching 7… not that it added much 🤓
Lore video when?
Yes I second Tarke. Lore video when? I rely on your lore videos to actually learn what's going on in the game lol
not too many lore heads left KC 😔
I've actually been listening to your Lore series since nothing on Audible interests me at the moment! They make good bedtime stories!
We demand lore video.
BK is an amazing guest, well spoken and has great insights. I also enjoy the fact that she's more or less the only one not spending so much time talking about what the comment section will be like and rather just state her experiences and viewpoints. As a community we obviously need to be better though. I can sympathize with the fact that a lot of content creators right now are ducking to avoid all the hate going around, and that doesnt benefit anyone. Forums like this one is a productive place where we can discuss ways to improve on design flaws. Its great that you found so many people doing different things in the game, bringing their personal experiences to the table. It makes for a great discussion, I enjoyed it. :)
Completely agree with the loss of aspiration as said by tarke. Last league i made my first ever mirror service item and had plans with a friend to try to make one this league as well. But about 45 min before league launch we see they removed the harvest crafts keep prefix/suffix. Without those 2 crafts most high end crafting methods are decimated, and now im like, what am im playing for? to gear out my character in fairly mediocre gear and then what? This is not an issue for the vast majority of players of course, but for the past 5-6 leagues ive been trying to get better at crafting to be one of the mirror item creators and there are others who aspire to that as well.
they had a duty to replace the keep prefix/suffix craft in some capacity somehow, killing it and replacing it with nothing is either the most myopic choice or it's such a long term decision it has no bearing on us until poe2
I feel that. I'm sitting on the best phys bow prefixes and implicits on console but getting the suffixes made after this is horrible. Exalt slam twice then metacraft and scour.
@@jameskurth3560 shouldn’t getting a literal perfect item be obnoxiously hard?
@@Stentron finishing a phys bow from the state he has it in used to easily cost between 300ex and multiple mirrors. Its was insanely hard but possible. You would lock prefix then reforge attack until you hit +1 or +2 arrows(sometimes this would fill.your suffixes so youd have to reforge keeping prefix until you open a suffix to lock prefix again). If +1 you would lock prefix and reforge more likely(need the keep prefix here again) til +2, then youd have to aisling and hope that not only you hit a usable mod, but you didn't remove the +2 and if you didnt hit a usable mod, lock prefix and anul hoping to hit the 50/50 to keep the +2(there were other ways of dealing with this too using cannot roll attack mods/anul). THIS process was considered the easy part a mirror phys bow and took massive amounts of currency and time.
@@Casual_Cannibal And that’s fine imo. And sounds slightly more fun than double ex slams. So did GGG remove those harvest mods to reduce mirror tier items or because it was creating too many 9/10 items? Or was it for players like me who used them in SSF to get high rolled resist life gear? Just trying to see what the issue was.
ohhhh glad to hear Brittleknee on this one
There were quite a few spot on comments from BK, where I went "Oh, that's right, she's got it perfectly."
I certainly would enjoy if she became a more frequent contributor to Baeclast.
Simp
Completely agreed. She didn't shy away from any stances and her takes were good on both sides of the it's okay/it's not okay aisle.
I had the exact same reaction. Very objective and insightful analysis on some of the issues. A refreshing contrast to the sea of overreaction and hyperbole on reddit...
I've missed her a lot since Baited Expectations came to an end. Please more BK!
+1 from me as well. Very welcome guest with great insight!
Some advice to CaptainLance: Dont ever EVER bring up the argument "They cant please everyone" again. It's right up there with "If you dont like it, dont play it." It's a complete non-starter and a discussion killer.
BK says, "she yells at you and throws bad jewelry at you" LMFAO. That was golden.
lmao ziggy fading out in the background after being shamed
I LOL'd for too long
Nice touch indeed 😀
Because who gives a shot . League is dead. Game is dead unless GGG comes to their senses. GG all. Hope for a brighter future but poe 2 has me worried.
9
Tarke: on the live service thing, I get it. The need to constantly iterate isn't necessarily a flawed concept in and of itself, but it HAS to be done right. If you commit to iteration, especially on a game with as many interconnected systems as PoE has, you need to COMMIT to it. What we're seeing now is what happens when there's the pressure of major changes every 3 months. While making major changes to many interconnected and dependent systems. With a smaller and more distracted team and team leads.
It's a recipe for failure, especially when the community expectations haven't changed but your capability to deliver has.
more than that, there are times when you should pivot or rollback, ggg knows this. this league is going to drag the game down not just for this league, but for the next one, too. it's going to take a while to recover from this massive blunder. which I know you all try to understate in this podcast its importance by putting your own context on it, but your group's context is largely atypical; not that many people play SSF or exclusively farm atziri for 4 days of the league
@@aw2031zap not being able to pivot after missteps is a pretty bad sign for a company.
A large part of the aggressive negative response is probably due to the fact that they straight up didn't mention the loot changes, so people got completely blindsided when their endgame strat turned out to be dead on arrival. I know personally that diving right into my usual deli/breach split was a disaster, and really sloshed my will to jump back into the league once we figured out that things like expedition and heist were fine.
good luck getting 100+ scours/regrets/unmakings to respec your atlas tree
they could have offered a free time-limited atlas tree respec and that would have been a stellar olive branch to players
And honestly lied about the harvest changes.
Reroll prefix/suffix wasn't just some "useless fluff" craft
They knew the community would dislike these changes. So they tried to sneak them in and hoped nobody would notice or care? I'm sorry but I just can't believe Chris saying he thought they weren't important enough to mention. That smells like pure BS.
The outrage exploded 10 fold due to absolutely terrible communication from GGG.
Many people took vacation time for league start and probably wouldn't have done that if they knew what to expect. Something that gets ignored sometimes when streamers talk because they don't have to skip work to play POE. Lol
@@TreesPlease42 I think that is a fantastic idea, after they finish tuning numbers.
Yep, that combined with other unpopular changes, also combined with the fact that any change that isn't an obvious buff is seen as bad because people have to adapt and neurologically humans don't like change. Negativity is a more multiplier.
@@SuperCatacata if they're going to make a large unpopular change they need to explain it beforehand then discuss logical reason why / share their long term vision. I know that's a lot to ask from GGG. their communication is terrible honestly. only time they pop up is after they've created a massive sht-storm.
This cast was so good, actually felt like meaningful conversation was had.
what a pleasure
really nice measured episode. The new group has a different energy than the old one and it is refreshing. Brittleknee definitely earned a seat from this cast and should be a permanent member if it was possible.
It's nice not having a certain pair of big headed pricks sucking themselves during it.
I do really like BK and I hope she is on consistently, but I want the base 4 with a rotating guest slot more.
What happened to the other ppl? Is this just a different rotation or
@@WailOfDoom Octavian went to work for GGG, Nugi and Raiz are mostly playing Lost Ark and tbh they didn't seem to care that much since Lost Ark came out and had weird takes for a lot of things because of that.
@@demetris6214 OH wow didn't know any of that.Thanks for the clarification. I assume they're gonna be back for PoE 2
brittleknee super well-spoken as usual
Grimro: "Imagine trying to play a selfcast divine ire build, you just cannot"
Me: Technically I am playing it right now. Can confirm, it's the most miserable experience I've ever had, and I've killed sirus on a heavy strike build using oni-goroshi.
I don't think it's ok to just write off old influenced items as being worse than eldritch influences and say that the loss of reforge prefix/suffix making them unusable isn't a big deal. There are builds and items that specifically rely on those old influenced items (eternity shroud, disintegrator, etc). That's what I'm playing and even just getting sufficient defenses on the influenced gear slots is a complete nightmare.
Which sucks because DI is so fun. Standing still for more than 1 second shouldn't be such a death sentence. But Archnem rares make it one.
@@SuperCatacata I've actually been considering linking knockback support for general mapping. I think you technically can make it work if you get an extremely potent blasphemy temp chains going with a very large area but I'm supreme ego (fun fact flesh and stone supreme ego just considers everything as not being in the zone) so that isnt an option for me. I've found myself needing to cheese a lot of rares with terrain or just oneshot them offscreen.
@@SuperCatacata I know 😭 Divine Ire is my favorite skill in the game, but it's so unusable as self cast it makes me sad lol
@@SuperCatacata you would be just as dead standing still 5 lagues ago so idk what archnemesis has to do with this
Just don't get hit Kappa
For me it's the removal of deterministic crafting, and the removal of reroll prefix/suffix, and the terrible "tainted currency"
Agreed, saying fractured items make up for it completely is a stretch.
Fractures have already been in the game for a long time. We used to have them PLUS rerolls which gave more options for crafting endgame gear. I'm not sure why Lance is defending it when having both of those systems was fine up until this point. Having more options is a good thing.
Just because we can use more fractures doesn't mean reroll shouldn't be a thing.
Brittleknee's takes are always fire. Love it.
As an alch and go player it felt so bad oof ... I can't talk about the math but I was dropping so little raw currency and maps (maps mostly at the beginning) it felt like playing pre atlas change it felt so bad ... None of the uniques I dropped have been a buffed unique so I've been vendoring basically all of them oof ... Archnem mobs are still insane and unfun and now they basically force it ... Meanwhile their first philosophy is about specing into content difficulty for more reward but archnem has no spec in ... And it's also random u can get a pushover mob or an insanely overjuiced mob and the reward just doesn't match that either
Also alch and go player here, I found early map drops were about the same as in previous leagues. Make sure ur buying maps from kirac especially when ur going from white to yellow maps. Also doing kirac missions helps with completions
@@mitchellshaw-lewis4956 this, and spec into 1 or 2 atlas things to get a higher chance of dropping maps. I had zero problems with map sustain so i was suprised reading so many people having it.
I think the saddest part of all of this, is that I was mapping as I was listening to this, and I for sure did like 60 ritual altars and forgot to take any items for a solid 2 hours.
Gotta respect Ziggy for not shilling, true to the community
I really love the idea of the team alternating between adding new endgame content as well as new skill gems, and then the next league is 100% about massive rebalances: gems, uniques, old league mechanic tuning, etc. (aka not new content, but massive tuning that changes how we play the existing content).
Ziggy had me dying lmao
Freaking excellent podcast. You all nailed it. Love Brittleknee as a guest!
Great episode. BK @ ~ 1:22:00 nails it succinctly on AN, IMO.
regarding the poe stuff, a friend of mine used to use something I think it was called poe hud. a lot of assets are preloaded so every map, you could know exactly what beasts spawned, what special things spawned (like shrines, strongboxes, harbingers) and would be crazy for running lab since it showed you the location of every darkshrine and stuff on the map. after lab got slightly reworked, ggg started banning poehud people (because you could see the contents of every chest after killing izaro) and it became more private. idk whats going on now since my friend stopped using it after bestiary.
poehud is still being developed but under a different name. it still has the ability to do what you mentioned (in this league people use it to find solaris touched in maps for mega profit) but it has stuff like auto loot etc too. i do not use it btw, ive just looked into it out of curiousity how it works (its open source)
I have to say the last 40 minutes of the podcast with the cooked and doomer takes was the most I've laughed in quite some time. Also this is the first podcast with the new crew that I've really loved and I think overall its actually a huge upgrade in terms of the breadth of perspectives! Keep the copium flowing and keep it up guys!
Love the nuanced discussion and am glad to see im not the only one still having fun.
THanks for not being swept up in the negativity and making your own conclusions (for all present in this talk)
Golem minions were actually originally supposed to be tanky allies that any class could bring along. That never really became the case due to not ever wanting to give them supports, even less so now after the massive nerfs to them. Animate Guardian was actually also kinda supposed to be a more tanky partner minion you could bring along. The fact that both of these got hit so hard is actually really bad considering original design intent, it feels like they just forgot what these minions were for and hit them with the nerf bat.
Hey Tarke!
Can you invite Kobe as a guest some time in the future? I feel like he would be great
I don't see why not, I watch all of his vids so it would be good to chat with him sometime.
This is just an echo chamber of "The changes don't effect me so it's not a problem." The main issue, and the thing people are the most upset about, is that there is no reward for increasing the difficulty of the content. And because of that there is no point in pushing your character further. So the primary game play loop of POE is gone. The reasons people play the game have been ripped away from them and then they are being told "This is better and you should be fine with it". It's bullshit and these people are clueless
I love GGG and I trust their vision. It has brought us this far. HOWEVER, AN MUST GO!
😂 naw they on what the fifth double downing of that shitty system. There is no turning back for them
GGG sucks
@@KGabQr Lets be fair here. GGG does not suck. They took some BIG swings and really struck out on the last few major changes. To me it, it hurts, but it doesn't change the fact that they have made the best ARPG ever.
Oooh this is going to be a spicy one! Can't wait to hear what you all have to say and looking forward to hearing some level-headed takes
IMO the reason they are so insistent with Archnemesis is because they are already implementing it in PoE 2, and using us to playtest the mechanic. I kind of feel like a lab rat
Just a quick public service announcement on the Betrayel helmet 55-60% rarity suffix "against" rares and uniques.
I had forgotten about it until today and it seems that so much rarity specific to the AN mechanics in one suffix is very strong right now.
Thanks for the podcast. I’ve been playing since 3.0 (harbinger league), it was a great game, not anymore. At least for me personally, already did quit the league. These changes are too much for me. Glad for anyone who still enjoys the game.
brittle definitely needs to return, very insightful comments. although pls buff her volume
Desperate
I actually wanted to be quite supportive of the crew being open and honest about having fun. I don't play a lot and vanished into endless heist to make some currency before getting to maps. When I'm on reddit, it scares me that the content I want to play in the future may be a bad slot machine (doesn't even have small wins to keep you hoping for big wins). The stuff over there is demotivating.
Chris asked where the idea that loot is bad is coming from? People like me experience the game we want to play through content creators. So when all of the content creators say the game is dead and a bad slot machine and that they aren't having fun, I'm scared about investing tens of hours to try to get to a point where I can also be disappointed and burned by them. You were dead on about players being concerned about aspiration content being destroyed. But it's not clear how much has been damaged. If it is just 6 man parties trying to print mirrors per hours, I don't care. I am ok with toning down their gains (although I would prefer if they do it in a better designed system). If mapping sucks in general and I won't get any loot from any league content I enjoy, I don't want to play.
So all that said, it's actually really important to me to have content creators saying, "Hey, we are still having fun. We aren't trying to invalidate the experience of Empy's group, but there is fun to be had. You can keep playing and looking forward to the hours ahead of you."
So thank y'all very much for having the courage to share your positive experiences when positive isn't in vogue atm. It's important. Please keep doing it.
About 1:00:00 in, I disagree with the idea that the high end getting 90% less loot doesn't affect most players; this is a trickle-down economy, so it still affects players not running that content.
Furthermore, the amount might not be as high across all the content, but it can still be fairly substantial for all players. For players who are getting a chaos an hour, getting a chaos every hour and half is going to hurt them a lot.
pretty much this. its like a tax, that eats 30% of your income. yeah, if you earn 10k a month you will lose more, but if you scrape by earning only 1k, you will feel way more, than the other one.
IMO its pretty dismissive of some of you assume the community saw people like Emp's teams having bad loot and saying my loot is bad too only because of that. I literally didn't have enough currency to BENCH craft a 4 link by the time I hit maps. Even if I wanted to buy something with my 5 chaos orbs I loot from 1-69; I wouldn't be able to use it without links (I was a summoner). I made a new character (minions died in a tier 1 map when I rekt'd Kitava in act 10) and looted more currency by level 24 than I had at 69 doing my first tier 1 map.
How do we know there isn't some bug like there was in Delve league where certain characters literally could not drop the big resonator? Because my currency experience was like it was down 70% from normal (I typically don't do league mechanics or very little of it during leveling)
Funnily enough, I found more in raw currency than in any previous levelling experience. 12c, an exalt, and a Carcass Jack which I sold for another 10c. It's a shame exalts are worth shit now though.
for me the issue with AN is that there's a ratio of how engaging/sweaty a game's combat is and how grindy the game is. PoE is fun because it's mostly a stomp and anything uniquely challenging is optional. PoE's depth is not in it's combat but everything else.
LMAO on Lance's take, adjusted = dead, fixed = gone
Oh boy, I would love to see this discussion, given the situation.
I think the divine changes are more impactful than it is given credit for. I think loot feels worse because there is no divine shards, there is no divine cards (except for one super rare one) compared to a whole slew of exalt cards. Mere mortals tend to work towards these kind of big ticket items in steps, and shards were a good way to get a slow roll going. Game feels more binary when your options are get lucky or not. Being lucky is cool, it shouldn't be the only way to progress. In my opinion, in this mostly single player game, everyone should be able to get to build defining rare uniques like headhunter or mageblood within a reasonable amount of time. They shouldn't be common, but they shouldn't be restricted to a lucky few either. Because that's video game elitism, and it's bad for the game and the enjoyment of everyone else.
Watch out Tarke, Grim's after your job! I jest, but it's cool having another voice who seems aware of the need to keep the conversations moving forward. There's a lot less dead air in the chat here than some Baeclasts in the past. I miss the boys, but feels like the pod is in good hands with their replacements, temporary or otherwise.
I've kept my head low in the discussion. Outside of pretty much skipping the lake and my zombies dying all the time, I'm having a great time with red maps.
I think Chris made it pretty clear that Memories could only "technically" be used for Map progression, pretty sure he said they are rare end-game drops only accessible to players in red maps.
With Kalandra I think they realized that they couldn't do her justice and instead went for the Meta thing. In one of the etchings she's talking about how "they revere me" and how people think she's special and a god and stuff, kind of breaking the 4th wall and going "see we did it on purpose, you had too high expectations", which I think is... cool, but also: come on. It's Kalandra.
I was expecting them to introduce more Mirrors, like Mirror of Dongleschism and they refer to our map devices so we get to pick our "patron god" that influences our maps in different ways. Them using the apparition technology to have them fly above the map device in the last few supporter packs made me think that maybe something like that would happen.
Oh thank heavens. I have been dying to listen to you guys. Pretty sad about that video that shows the big divine explosions while hacking. Watch the mana flask lol. These guys are using a RAM reading 3rd party hack to find maps with the valuable PoE loot goblins without having to even enter the maps. Same tools beast farmer have been using for years. Just now it is way too profitable for the RMTers.
even using that hack, they are literally making less than they were previous leagues.
@@FakeEgirl and still making more than 99% of the players
saddest part about this patch honestly. The bots and RMTers are going to be even worse because of the forced loot scarcity.
@@therebelofchaos1674 3.19 will be peak botting league 100%
@@musicwelikemang Someone actually tried to argue "if you alch and go now you should get pretty decent loot" and I said "my brother in christ I alch and went before the changes in past leagues when I played super casually. Let me give you an example. There are two piles of shit: One is just a regular ol' steamy pile of shit. The other, is a steamy pile of shit with some pecks of corn in it. What's the difference between the two?...Answer: shit is shit whether it has corn in it or no corn in it."
I miss Baeclast, but I understand that it can never return and be what it once was.
Hi guys, I respect you all ( have been a subscriber to most of you for your immense knowledge and build guides). I have been playing POE for several years now off and on and still consider myself a “noob”, I am also not the youngest player ( senior age).
I wish, you would address “non expert “ players and talk in a more simplistic terms ( for example, I have a vast medical knowledge, when I talk to my patients, I use very simple terms to help them understand, what is going on). This is what I mean, of course you could say, “this video was not addressed for beginners “.
In general, I wish more of you would make something like Ziz does with his POE university “( that would be such a tremendous help and appreciated.
Okay enough talk, hopefully I am not drawing too many “hate responses “.
Anyway thank you all 👍😊
@@davidpowell3469 thank you David for taking the time, replying to me and Yes, you caught me, English is my second language.
And I agree with your advice :)
From the start, I have been watching so many RUclips videos, to understand the mechanics. I actually ended up playing Kalandra league after several patch releases and finding myself playing more efficiently ( only 3 deaths so far, lvl 87:) , nevertheless I still find myself being unsure about several choices regarding making my character stronger. I am thinking of joining discord, I probably can get good answers and advice there.
Anyway thank you again 😊
I love Grimro throwing up his hands around 1:30:00, I totally feel this vibe.
If GGG heavy nerfs stuff again next league, (heist etc...) there will be actual riots. Edit: I am so impressed you guys had the balls to call out the RAM sniffing hack to detect touched AN mobs. I never thought you would want to bring it up in this hyper- visible pod. Big respect ZiggyD.
I think why we are seeing alot of conflicting information and reports about loot, aside from people playing different content at different speeds, I think its mostly about how spiky the game feels basic currency rewards are in a good place i would say after the patches but what most people would consider rewarding, big drops, dinks feel way too random you can definetly made money in various ways but aside from the flat drop conent the rest feels like a gamble that does not scale whit investment. Archnemesis loot goblin strat being the best feels bad because you are at the mercy of RNG, same as crafting. I think the progression for a sc trade enviroment feels off you are hoping for a lucky drop to bail you out or you target farm flat drops.
Some other things like the campaign rework that made it to act 2 and then they left it like that, completely overtuned compared to the rest of it then slap archnemesis in top of it. Or rare combos being random and having no control over them no atlas passive or sextant support. Community hoping for a more deterministic crafting system and ggg moving to a more random system. Maybe the 3 month leagues isn't doable just go for a 4 month if all the leagues clearly need 1 to 2 weeks more after release i dont think anyone would mind having 1 more month
@@Mugahh yeah acts 1 and 2 shouldn't be as hard as they are for experienced players. Most new players are going to struggle with the campaign.
I would disagree with basic currency drops. After Chris said that "the avarage player" should feel fine, I tested in Standard with an Int-Stacker (no Quantity-Rarity gear) just some normal mapping. I did 12 chiseld and alch'd T16 Maps, without Sextants and Scarabs, but with an Atlastree focussed on quantity/rarity with the "small notes doubled" Keystone. That should kinda reflect a normal player, who is not super juicing. Remember, most casual player wouldnt really use scarabs or sextants and probably a suboptimal Atlastree. In those 12 Maps I got like 20 maps in retun, 11 Alchs, 35 Chisel, 1(!) Vaalorb, 6 Chaos and some bubblegum currency. So I didnt even sustain the 48 Chisel and 12 Alchs I needed for the maps and I chose twice the Altars who give eldritch-monstesr Map-Currency drops. Without that I would have like 10 Chisel. And thats with a build that could easily cruise through maps, kill every AN Rare and Mapboss. I know, that 12 maps are not a great samplesize, but it kinda shows the direction loot went. Of course I could run 50 maps more, average the same drops with one lucky AN rare, got the 1-2 divine drop and maybe profited over the long run. But that is not fun. At least for me. I'm a juice player. I'm not really a bosser, actually I'm pretty bad at it. But I love juiced content with 80-100% delirious, beyond, 8 map mods 180%quant, 60% packsize. Thats the hardest content you can do in maps, costs hundreds of chaos to setup and when you not even get 100c worth of drops now, it feels really bad.
If ggg wants to continue their direction, its fine for me. I had 5 years and 5k hours of fun in poe. If I dont like the current game, i just dont play it. I dont need to make death threats or anything. The only thing I'm disapointed in is, that they didnt openly communicated the biggest change in poe history and that they always tell us their vision of a slower and harder game and nearly every second league is somekind of mechanic, where you have to speedclear, clear multiple screens in seconds etc. contradicting their "vision". I had my fun, I payed for convinience in the past and if its time to move on and have fun again, I will just move on and have my personal fun somewhere else.
@@fenikkusu4893 Sorry I didn't mean in terms of profit i mean in basic currency needed to play the game at the minimum level alchs to roll maps I can sustain to an extent my maps for completion, but im only talking about what I experienced it may have variance form player to player given how the current loot system works.
theres alot of people try to diminish what the average player is experiencing, talking down to them, claiming were all parroting bad info. but anyone can tell it feels bad right now... that actually plays the main game anyway
Chris needs to make his own podcast where he just talks to us owo ... No other content creators xD
Seriously... I think I'd listen to that. :D
You'd think that would work but I would disagree. The problem is that the "community" thinks that they all agree with each other but they actually don't. And it never will. Everyone has their own view of what is good for the game and what is bad. The only reason why you may think the community agrees on all points is because the only ones you hear are the ones complaining. Those who think the game are fine, will not complain and you will not hear them. Flip the coin the other way and you get another set of people unhappy while appeasing the the another group. Throw in the spectrum of differing viewpoints on topic, say "how should crafting be in the game" and you have so many differing opinions it would be hard to find a balance.
The game belongs to ggg. They should be able to make the game the way they want to. People are not going to like some of the choices but that's the best way to approach it. If people don't like the game, they wouldn't play it. Period.
Please do an episode with Snap and Chris. I wanna see them duke it out
I dont think they would duke it out but it would be interesting to hear their perspectives.
@@ikashibimauler It's obviously a joke. lol
Though you are right, it would be very good to have an actual conversation between them and see them come to some sort of middle ground.
I've been having a great time this league, but the biggest bummer for me has been speccing into Beyond immediately on the atlas passive tree. I had too much copium that the tainted fuse weren't 'adjusted' too dramatically, and I wanted an early 6L in SSF. I still haven't fully respecced out of it because I waited to get two different bosses for the challenge completion.
I don't quite understand why people say that harvest doesn't drop enough life force. I price-checked how much life force I get in t14-16 maps with most of the harvest nodes specced, and it's been around 10-20c worth per harvest zone I find. That suggests to me that there's a reasonable demand for the amount of life force you can get "passively" from ordinary play (i.e, not buying Harvest sextants etc.). SSF is another story of course.
Also, I think Grim and Lance should feel a lot more comfortable just speaking their mind without too much preamble about how the audience will respond. I feel like everything they said was perfectly reasonable, but I can also understand how peeking into the subreddit might give the impression that what they're saying is heretical.
Im glad block capped, 50% suppression. 10k+ armor, highish evasion chance and 1200 life on hit with 3k hp and still getting slammed by nemesis mobs
IMO, alot of the "Synthesis and after era" of PoE has been a mess (design wise), but has been paved over with ever increasing loot and build power.
The moment they cut back on that, it reveals alot of enemy encounters/league reward structures are terribly made.
"there's so many fun taxes" yep that part, thanks Ziggy, maybe ggg will actually hear that part. Defences are great, but not when you have to index so far into them that you can't get enough damage... So much for fun ...
My personal experience. I have 6 portal'd this league more than any other league. I taught my wife how to play last league as a Necromancer, which she loved. Patch notes: Necros are nerfed heavily with little explanation as to why. Try to explain to a new player why the devs have made her build bad and how we can still have her play the build to see if its still viable. So league launch, we figure out shortly that gear isnt dropping past act 4. Rares will one shot you arbitrarily, one shot some in return, so we decide to avoid all rares. Lake was fun the first acts and got most of our actual gear from the lake until act 8 when lakes became un-runable for us. We did very good on all act bosses, was decent. Hit act 10 and hit a wall. Lake killed us, Act 10 killed us, we decided to farm to 68 in Ossuary as it gave good exp and wasnt hard to avoid the rares. Mind you we were is majority act 4-6 gear and having issues getting gear enough or orbs enough to craft something useful. We spent 4-5 hours leveling to 71 before doing trial successfully and doing kitava. We then died repeatedly in T1 maps and lakes, went back to the Ossuary until level 75. My wifes spectres died immediatly, her AG just wasnt worth running, her carrion golem was doing good work (she's running an absolution build.) I had her swap to zombies to do minion ele debuffs and just get some more targets to not die to single target stuff.
This being said. We are not good players, i've played since 3.5. The 3 best leagues i've ever played have been Synthesis, Archnemesis, Sentinel. Only Archnem has gone core and in the worst way possible imo. I loved picking which ones to attack, the recipes and the modifiers. I built 10 characters just to combat some different combinations. Made the most currency in any league and had fun. They put it in the game as un-killable rares, totally not burning ground so your immunity to burning ground doesnt work, and this is like totally not a stun/freeze that froze/stunned you. I dont mind what they did with Synth, but I loved the alternative to mapping sooo much. Which pissed me off when it didnt go core and then a few leagues later heist does....which more people disliked from what I saw....
I want to have fun, I want to be casual, I want to play games with my wife, I want this game to be good again. I am dont want to quit, I am still going to chase the dopamine release I had and my wife had in sentinel as much as I can handle. Its just depressing, that I'll likely just stop playing 7-10 days after the league launched. I want fun, I dont want a job. We have a small 10 man guild that lasted 7 weeks last league which is the longest its lasted ever. We lost half of our little close knit group 2 days in. Its not fun, the fixes, haven't fixed anything. They've polished this shit, its a shiny little shit, but its still shit.
Also shut the hell up tarke, heist is the only thing that has kept me playing this league.
I'm so glad you guys mentioned the act 1 ridiculousness. Every time I'm not playing Marauder or Champion I get murdered in the Submerged Passage. Just encountered a magic pack of spitters there that spawned by the entrance and made it impossible to move.
Wish these had in app time stamps.
Maybe give a mod a pay raise to take the minutes of baeclast so you can have them. Cause it’s almost 2023 and that should be a requirement for long videos
I really related to the bit on AN offensive capability stacks and check boxes of how many defense things you need to even have fun playing the game. I learned this game a long time ago when 80% in one resistance could make you practically immune to death by singular ele damage. I've got 79 cold res and get slapped by normal monster frost skeles in every other yellow map. Same for fire and light. Add 4 AN mods to an actually scary rare and suddenly my character with 5-6 layers of defense and tons of ailment immunities folds like a wet paper bag. I died 3 or 4 times to T:12 lava lake kitava not because I didn't have the damage or defenses to face the boss but because the boss had the gall to summon 3-4 AN modded rares every 30 seconds of the fight. It's really hard to justify not playing a build that can fit spell suppression cap + full ailment immunity + 5k or more HP pool + block + evasion or armor stack and still do 2m or more DPS. Because if you aren't playing a build like that how do you expect to face any of the things PoE is filled with now?
1:02:00 - thank you Tarke for bringing this perspective to the discussion/s going around about "the community is following the content creators opinions, not their own" argument. Whether the general player base is actually feeling the loot crunch or not (to the level of Empy) should not be considered. What should be considered is they are playing a game where they are getting hit so hard and so fast they can not respond. And if by some odd chance they survive, they are not getting a reward. Yet Chris and GGG TOLD THEM they would get rewarded. The general player base YET AGAIN for another league sets aside time in their lives to be ready to play at launch and YET AGAIN, GGG does not deliver on what they say they will do. The rewards aren't there - the game play is over tuned and too hard and after a week, it's scaled back. The goodwill of the community can only be pushed so far, BEFORE they feel frustrated and then may look to more knowledgeable folks (like EMPY or you five) to help them articulate WHY they are angry.
It feels like a finality because ggg is dead set on this vision ... It makes it hard to have the copium that things can change
I think alot of valid points were made. The fact that POE is a live service game combined with the making of POE 2 seems to take a major toll on the dev team(s) atm. To undertake such challenges and at the same time play catch up when something goes down can't be easy to prepare for, or stay on top of.
Permeant minions need to stay alive as long as possible, and their life was very nerfed in many ways. The reason is because it's a major PITA to re summon them. Especially Specters.
To Re summon a specter you need to remove a green gem (usually culling strike) from a piece of your gear so you can equip Desecrate (because there is never enough gem slots and now our rings slots are being taken up by bone rings so less sockets), unequip spell echo so you don't double summon the wrong thing, cast desecrate about 5 or 10 times until the correct corpse of your specter appears, fight with the mouse to actually select the right corpse, cast raise specter, and then repeat the process about 3 more time.
For re summoning Zombies, you have to turn off a few auras so you can actually get enough mana un reserved to summon each one, and you can generally get about 2 or 3 of them up per mana flask (which you have to equip only for this purpose). Do that for 10 or 11 zombies.
When summoning the golems you are shuffling skills around on your bar because there are not enough spots for skills to bring them back up.
When summoning an AG you have to fill your inventory with everything you are going to build him with and then throw that item on the floor (so you can't do it in your hideout) and then cast the spell on each item to build it.
Minion life is the #1 most important thing for playing permanent minions and the the thing that took the biggest hit aside from the minion levels. When they moved much of the minion power to gear, they randomized our ability to keep our minions alive to make them viable. It also took prefixes and suffixes we used on gear for survival and now replaced them with stuff to keep out minions alive. But that makes our personal defenses much weaker.
Much of this league after the current fixes feels pretty OK except if you are trying to play permeant minions and then it's a major pain in the ass but I'm trying anyway. 🙃
This cast makes every episode a banger
I think Ziggy's assessment of how at least the League mechanic should be overpowered is exactly what got them into this mess in the first place.
The game on a base level has always been around what it is right now, actually way less profitable even. But the past 6 months we've had an INSANE amount of loot creep with the Atlas passives, altars and 2 way too over-tuned league mechanics. People got used to that and forgot what the game is supposed to feel like. This is just a repeat of the mistake they made with Harvest, which is a shame.
I still remember after Archnemesis I was bummed out because I was sure the next league was gonna feel so unrewarding for sure because there was no way they wouldn't nerf the Atlas passives and bring another league mechanic as overpowered as Archnemesis was right after. And then they followed it up with Sentinel, easily the most broken, over-tuned mechanic we have ever had - even beyond original Harvest I'd say.
So yes, the game is gonna feel a bit slower whenever they bring it back to the base level its supposed to be. It's still way easier and rewarding with the Altas passives and Altars than it was just half a year ago. I remember sustaining Chisels and Alchs not being a thing for a player of my caliber, now I'm swimming in currency and even sustaining Scarabs and Sextants.
Poe is turning too hardcore for many people, including me.
I think people have it mixed it. It's not turning hard-core, its just turning more anti-fun. Hard-core would be good positive changes that increase challenge. Anti fun is ruining game mechanics and nerfing systems for arbitrary design goals against players wishes.
@@WailOfDoom sounds like youve been watching some content creators lol
@@FakfridSumanko haven't watched any content creators since Heist league. So came to this conclusion on my own. If there are others who agree with this then great.
@@WailOfDoom Sure thing m8 :)
@@FakfridSumankoRight..because I really care what you think to begin with and definitely care whether you think I'm lying now or not. You can put away your tin foil hat little kid.
To Captainlance at 1:39:12 - you are not crafting. You're having luck with the craft lottery. Very different things.
I've found a 7th etchhing in lake, that almost suggested you as an exile would release Kalandra
The biggest problem I have is that GGG seems to consider trade when balancing player power but doesn't when balancing rewards. Crafting gear with essences and harvest wasn't an option for most people on day 1 of the league which funneled everyone into trade. It would be quite sad if endless Heist and chaos recipe become the best way to league start.
Agreeing with Lance and Grimro on this one. The main difference is that crazy rewarding sentinel is gone and that Divine/Ex just created a massive inflation.
thankyou for talking about minions, persistent minions still get absolutely binned by archnem, especially if essence is involved
So Tarke says either Heist needs to get nerfed or everything else needs to be brought up to Heist's level because having that imbalance between mechanics shouldn't happen. But then he agrees with Grim when he says that Beyond should just come back, even though it got nerfed for the exact same reason Tarke is unhappy with Heist?
if you could mix the master volume louder that would be awesome. whole podcast is quiet
Grim over there looking like a Jedi Master on the Council. Grimroda even.
Is the game bad now? Yes.
For reference, I'm a console player stuck in yellows. I have made less than 50c in trade league (Xbox has a jacked economy), and I'm still rocking gear from the acts - I've run out of and had to convert wisdom scrolls on more than one occasion.
I have a ton of experience in game, have SSFHC demis, hit level 100, and average several hundred exalts per league when I play. I don't value currency, but rather the opportunity to min/max a character to the best of my ability and helping Guildies get gear and achieving their goals.
I've been playing every other league since Synthesis (console) and 3 days before sentinel end I finally killed the shaper for the first time and already decided to continue with my RF Inquistor in standard. From what I gather from the community I made the right decision. So far I'm not finding it any harder or as far as I can tell experiencing a notable decrease in loot - Maybe the problems are league specific? Then again I've never got anywhere near as much currency as you guys get - My standard league Stash is probably what you guys get EVERY LEAGUE.
1:31:04 very good point by Tarke, like certain mods on certain types of rares makes sense but if you put some really fked mods (hasted + mana siphor) on some naturally fast moving rares, its gonna be harder than any uber bosses.
I quit this league because of Archnemesis and only because of Archnemesis. I simply do not like them, I do not like the philosophy behind them and I absolutely despise how they are implemented. I skipped all of Sentinel because of the lack of balance changes and the implementation of Archnemesis. I gave this league a shot because of the supposed adjustments to them this time around but I find them entirely too oppressive and not fun at all.
Thanks tarke for your point about getting our own loot.
I was a little salty ab the quant rarity boys getting massive drops.
Who cares tho I’m having a blast playing the leagu.
The new league maps look so cool the way they spawn but there's no special game feature like blight or heist. They could of did something cool where there's tons of mirrors that bring you to different small islands with chests and/or mobs. Some you can dash to but some only reachable by instant mirror portals. Maybe some mirrors duplicate your toon onto two islands but only one can come back. Or maybe mirrors that boost your toon like a shrines but in new ways. Maybe it's a warp mirror much faster then speed buff shrine. And you can only cross certain areas at warp speed and loot pops into your bag without clicking!! Something that takes a little skill, that is fun, but really not that hard to do. They could also copy every drop depending how many mirrors you discover warping through areas. Kind of like a slot machine bonus round. A lucky run can be super rewarding but at varying degrees. So many ideas they could of did. I think they need to work on leagues for more then 3 months. Basically, have two groups and give them each 6 months between leagues.
Ironically this is the fastest that I have progressed in a league to date. Day 3 on console. Level 83. Got t3 %armor fracture on my boots, max rolled t1 health fracture on my belt.
The game is quite generous with fractured items right now, and I have a better plan of what I want to do overall.
I know people say that crafting is dead, but it's actually not for low to mid tier. I would argue it is easier/better.
@@MrBuns-yi2hk easier/better than harvest?
@@colto2312 not easier for high tier, but for low ro mid tier crafting yes.
@@MrBuns-yi2hk okay, what do you have now, that you didn't have in harvest?
@@colto2312 tons of fractured items. They drop like candy right now, and good fractured rolls are huge for early crafts.
The primary issue I had with the league's loot was only true for initially breaking into maps. The high variation in loot just meant that, due to a little bit of bad luck in the campaign, and not knowing that loot distribution had changed so substantially, I found myself at level 65, completely broke, unable to craft a weapon and hardly able to farm the needed currencies. Once my actual build came online and I got into consistent maps, it felt fine even before the changes.
Not knowing that you have to ride the large influxes of wealth from one to the next, rather than the old relatively consistent influx of wealth with a few big natural drops is really where I felt burned, because the only reason that happened was due to their lack of communication and lack of play testing to understand the significance of the changes.
The drops are 100% not the same, I dont use reddit so im not on some dandwagon. I knew it was different when I got to maps without a single chaos orb or unique drop, the first time ive never got either while leveling. I then go in my first map and get 1 hit by archnemesis. It really doesnt feel good when its a level 1 map right from leveling.
Yeah I feel like they're all gaslighting us. Like it was blatantly obvious to so many people. Everyone talking about going into maps on 4 links because nothing was dropping. Trade having no items available. And then the math from Chris makes it straight up obvious- if red beasts are worse than yellow beasts, and every zone/map with einhar has 3 yellow beasts in it, and they each had MORE than a 750% multiplier, on top of multipliers for being essence monsters or ghosted or whatever... Just losing the multipliers on those 3 monsters is going to be like losing half your drops during the campaign when you're not full clearing zones. And in maps, you typically have what, 3 or 4 league mechanics? Again, people are going to be losing more than half their drops, which is what pretty much everyone has been saying.
If people have been getting more or less the same stuff, it's because they abused Heist or whatever other mechanics ignored monster drops.
Idk how. I did my maps with 2.5 life, 600 es (t1s) was fine. Didnt even do lab at that point.
I think they need to switch to a 4 month cycle rather than the current 3 month cycle. It seems like they really need the extra month for a lot of reasons.
The weird thing people keep failing to realize, a tainted blacksmith whetstone is way way more valuable than tainted fusings that do absolutely nothing you cannot already do.
Like yes, I run this vaal temple map, it gives me something nice. But it has zero quality. Since unique weapons are mostly still all bad, now let's take tainted scraps. This is very useful to be able to add upward of 29% quality to that drop. During Scourge League for example, I was using a brine crown with 2 good implicits. Could get it all nice to 29% quality and then pay a lab runner to add my enchant to it, this is adding lots of power to an already good item. Tainted Blessing been used heavily too since they became a core component of the game for people using the obviously good and cheap +1 power charge crown of the inward eyes. Those are useful new additions to the core game, letting us do what wasn't possible before. All tainted fusings did in scourge is make vaal orbs less valuable than usual.
I don't know why people obsess over the least useful tainted currencies. Fusings have no use, if you have something corrupted with very strong implicits, you don't mind spending the vaal orbs to link it. It is worth it. Tainted fusing only purpose in scourge league was producing underpriced 6L. That's not a good feature. Now allowing me to pick a unique helmet with 2 great implicits... and then being able to both quality it to 29% and then enchant it in lab. Now that is very nice.
I popped a tainted armorsmith onto my corrupted 6l chest and got +%28 quality. Feels good man
15:00
Grimro: Impressive..
.. now let's see Paul Allen's currency stash tab.
I do think that the vast majority of their problems come from their crazy release cycle. However, I do also think the Live service model has a distinct advantage of being able to release content quickly to the consumer which in turn allows them to quickly get feedback and iterate or refine those ideas.
If you were to release a lot of features in one big expansion less frequently, you are still going to have issues, and they may actually spend a lot of time of features that aren't popular or that the players don't even want in the first place. The quick and constant feedback loop is extremely powerful, but it does come at a cost of some goodwill.
It doesn't mean that Live service is objectively better, but the iterative nature of quick releases shouldn't be taken for granted in my opinion.
The bit about the live service game thing is EXACTLY how I've felt about both MTG and POE for a long time now. I've always phrased it as these two games CANNOT be complete. They can't be allowed to reach a point at which the game is just finished. The next league/booster is always lurking around the corner ready to throw everything out of whack. With magic, it's even worse because they can't nerf things that they print(easily). But it's still a rough situation to be in design wise. They'll run out of ideas. Then we won't even have a game to play in the time thereafter. At least with magic the cards exist after wizards dies (also proxies could exist).
the problem with lack of currency is most players dont/ cant craft even early mid tier items there entire progression is based on currency and if its not droping alot of players just stall out
As a much slower, casual player (got to maps towards the end of day 2, 12 hours or so), the lack of loot in the first few days was *very* noticeable for me. Currency during the campaign and early maps felt a lot lower than normal. Once I started Heist it leveled out a bit, and it's been leveling out more since they buffed the loot drops again. However, I will say that transmutes, alts, chances, jeweller's and fusings still feel significantly rarer than normal. Jewellers in particular, it feels like 6s item drops have been lowered significantly, I'm wondering if their item culling changes hit those drops. Map drops also seem notably lowered.
Im a bit of a casual and i do not play efficiently but ive sank like 40h into the league, almost comfortable farming t16 and so far ive only had 1 divine orb drop. At some point i ditched farming lower red tier maps with chisels and alcs and just went back to like tier 1 and 2 maps and chance orbed them and the loot isnt that much different tbh in my experience.
Just breaking into t11 3 divines have dropped for me so far
Scourge rework, tainted currency mostly, is the part that makes me cry. That said;
I think they need a "break" league, like another legacy league or one that doesnt need much attention, so that they can breath and give some love to a lot of the other stuff that needs attention. Then go to a different cycle, like 2 leagues a year
the only thing that felt insanely unrewarding to me was breach, i full spect into it for a week and i got 40 chayula splinters. i had a full day farming tier 11-13 maps and got 2 chayula splinters. harvest and league mechanic were obv unrewarding, but everything else feels totally fine to me :)
wtf
This is just my speculation but I think that AN was created for POE 2 where there are more mobility moves and a better system telegraphing enemies attacks etc. Then to get people ready for the difficulty spike they are pushing it now so on release of POE 2 it would hopefully not be as painful. AN reminds me of the clip where Kripp was playing act two for the first time trying to beat the final boss with CW on stream and like it was a long and one hit RIP fight. I think that is what they are trying to get back to in some ways and it is to get ready for POE 2. I mean I am also a dev and this could all be dev cycle issues and high pressure demands with not enough people. I mean adding people doesn't make things go faster in the dev world most times because you get communication issues and only one person can work on certain files at a time or you get major conflits.
I really love POE. And I don’t wanna see it like this. I don’t wanna give pressure to GGG either. I don’t even know if they care about my opinion too. But some parts of the game is really unhealthy now. And captainLance is always a league enjoyer. He said the same thing back in Expedition league.
I'm so glad Grim used the exact specific example of divine ire self cast, that is one of my favorite skills ever added to the game and it is unplayable. It just doesn't work. PoE, pre AN, was a dangerously rippy experience in red maps. Bosses hit very very hard, yes they telegraph, but they still hit extremely hard. Playing a channeled skill is demanding from a build and mechanics perspective and it is unrewarding as all hell, to the point where divine ire is a non skill, it doesn't work in PoE anymore.
edit: I'm actually glad that they spent so much time on the archnem stuff. build diversity, uninteractive one shot gameplay, lingering shit chasing you, and the defensive nerfs that now require so, so, much from a build to be remotely viable are big parts of why I don't enjoy the game anymore. Dead or Alive, that's how I feel playing now. I'm dead or alive, the difference between those two states is milliseconds. Stop to pick up a chaos orb? Fucking dead. Slight hitch in frame rate? Dead. Latency, at all? Dead. Everything happens so fast, the mobs move and attack so fast, with so much damage, that it really does feel like driving down the wrong way of an interstate at night. You see the hazards approaching but the actual events occur with such violent rapidity that response is minimal.