Such an interesting topic! As I’ve grown in my relationship with my husband I’ve realized more and more that the person I married is so different than the one I’m married to today. Our views on god and religion have changed, our carriers have changed, our hobbies have changed our relationship with money has changed, etc. Almost nothing is the same 15 years later after first meeting each other. And somehow we still love each other so freaking much. Finding a partner and staying with them has so little to do with the things we have on our “check list” and so much more to do with the unexplainable connection you may have with someone and the effort you are both willing to put into the relationship. ❤
I'm in a similar boat 😊 14 years for my husband and I! It's great you both have deep love for eachother. I believe that soulmates are a very real thing. There's something unexplainable that keeps people together when they're meant to be together. When I met my husband, we were both sure within 2 weeks that we wanted to be together without question.
I’m 25 and this is also a constant topic of conversation between my friends and I! You all put it really well, dating is the only area of life where you can’t necessarily “work” towards meeting your ideal match. 2 things I wanted to add: 1) I hate this notion that’s popped up over the years that’s like, “you just gotta focus on your healing and the right person will come” and I feel like that’s true to an extent but you can also be doing all the things to be a better person and understand yourself better (ex. go to therapy) and that perfect match may still not show up, and 2) I like to think that dating apps have provided us the “illusion” of options because in reality how many people on those apps can you find a true, genuine, connection with? 💭Appreciate you all for this episode!!
I know so many people who have terrible trauma but not healed and that got lucky and met someone who is super supportive. Then they say be confident. Whdn😅I’m super confident I attract narcissists or toxic men. When I’m insecure I put men off I guess. When you meet the rest person none of this matters because no one is perfect. They will accept all of you and your flaws. Like people say stop looking or people say you have to be intentional. I’ve been single for 7 years and I date and I don’t even date my personal preference I’m open minded and I’m still single. I haven’t met anyone that wants to be in a relationship with me. It’s either I don’t like them or they don’t like me. To make it worse I’m not even picky. I guess I’m just an oddball that rarely fits with people so I might never meet someone despite the fact that I attract a lot of people based on my physical looks.
I agree with you!! My partner is super supportive and I am very emotional 😅and I was definitely not in the best place in my life when we met lol but our relationship is very healthy
I agree. I haven't been in a serious relationship since 2016 and I've grown and matured a lot since then (also with the help of therapy). And the right person for me has yet to show up. Sometimes that formula just doesn't work.
Also in Serbia like people here are insanely tall. Im considered almost short and Im 5'6 girl. I know a lot of tall girls and guys who only date tall girls.
If she decides to have children a woman would be tall and find it hard to date but the bright side is both female and male children could be professional Sportspeople.
I'm so happy to hear you both talk about this topic. At some point growing up, I got taller than my mom, and she started complaining about my clothing taking up too much space, my coats and jackets not being elegant enough because of their size, and my shoes looking too large... She grew up being taught to take up as little space as possible and seemed to project that onto me, her daughter. We should take up the space we take up!
I’ve been single seven years after my last relationship almost killed me. I have such a good life now and such a good relationship with myself that I’m hesitant to try dating again because I’m afraid of risking everything I’ve worked so hard to build.
Girl I feel you 💯! They relationships that almost kill you mentally , emotionally, spiritually and physically! Change you completely! But once you get that self love! You love being alone 💯
I don't understand where we got all confused in the self-development trope about grow yourself first before getting with someone, okay at first it's nice, but like, man, there is a point where keeping out of any love commitment just will keep you in this self bubble of challenges. The amount of personal development that can be done ONLY with being confronted to love emotions and Co-regulation with someone that triggers you is immense. And also, sorry but if I wait to be "self-developed" to commit in love than i close the door to love cause the concept of self-development doesn't come with a "complete" level where your sky becomes pink 🤣 so you are never going to be able to say when is this time actually
Totally agree.. self development is challenged only when meeting someone.. also you might know your boundaries and what you want but no one will be a package for all that, you will need to meddle in a lot of situations and hopefully don’t let the right one slip just because the self love ego sht being taught nowadays make you think that you can’t provide 1 more day in the week to meet someone you like cause you never did that before so you will not change (happened to me recently with a man that said he liked me and wanted to know me and was sad to end but i was asking for 3 days a week to meet instead of his 2, and i told him I would figure out if I could handle 2 cause i was interested in him anyway…. Despite that he ditched me xD honestly I understood why women always cheated on him)
Also : saying "rather be alone than being with someone for comfort" is a very twentysomething thing to say. Being in a bad relationship just to not be alone is different, but comfort on a long term is absolutely fantastic. Many people pass on great potential partners (for long term!) because they are chasing this romantic movie SPARK.
I've been dating someone for over 2 years now and while he's a great partner in a lot of ways it's a struggle to feel romantic towards someone without a spark. I'm contemplating breaking up because we don't have great physical chemistry. Don't discount the importance of attraction and an initial spark. Different people need different things
@@abbylebaddie how do you experience physical intimacy with your partner if there is no spark between you guys? I just cant force myself to kiss or be intimate with anyone when I feel absolutely nothing
@@abbylebaddie That spark doesn’t last forever. Out of curiosity, which compromise sounds more tolerable… trading in partners every time the dopamine rush inevitably ends or sharing a history/kinship with someone your heart will never burn for? Which form of regret would you prefer to live with? It’s a tough one.
Maybe it’s because I’m 36 and a lot of the surface level stuff about dating starts to not matter as much, but the idea of not giving someone a chance because of how tall they are is just baffling to me. Height doesn’t matter when your curled up with someone reading on the porch swing 10 years from now. Looks fade, character doesn’t.
It's about the social status that it represents, just like everything else in today's society. Looks and status matter a lot. Good looks are very important to the majority of young(er) people nowadays. Before also of course, but even more so now with social media, such as Instagram. They don't care about in 10 years on the porch swing, they care about how good the pictures look on their social media profiles today. According to the current standards, it doesn't look as good on social media if the boyfriend is shorter than the girlfriend, it's how it is. Perhaps it'll change one day. Everything's a cycle anyway. But I'd say it's fairly new. I was in high school and college about 10-12 years ago, people didn't care as much about that kind of stuff compared to now. Honestly, it's probably related to social media. Because 10 years ago, social media pretty much didn't exist. Back in school, my friends and I didn't grow up with a phone glued to our hands 24/7 and we didn't care about what people thought about us online... Priorities have switched, a lot.
@@mitzara25 I’ve had love interests that initially I wasn’t super attracted to but when I got to know them they became the most attractive person I’d ever been around. Someone’s energy, character and vibe can make them so much more “attractive”. I’ve also been with traditional pretty people that were duds on the inside. You just don’t know until you give them a chance.
So inspiring you guys!!! I especially resonated with Elena's words at 22:46 about the loss of empathy and respect through Dating Apps (this is SO true and I thought about that myself very often recently)! So good to hear these thoughts are also having other people not just myself. Thank you guys!
Wow this was such a great conversation! As a mid 20s man in NYC, I relate to the struggles and the complexities of 'finding the one' in metropolitan city where there's just so many options. It's refreshing to hear you ask questions that can be more sensitive like height and finances. Looking forward to more of these chats :)
People initially are replaceable IMO, because you don't really know them. This goes for myself as well. What makes people initially replaceable is that people are overwhelmed and that no strong connection has been established. The moment I have been on any date where a strong connection was established, the respect was there. In my experience, it usually takes 3 dates for it to become solid enough. If anything happens before that it is not personal by any means, it can't be. That's how I treated my dates (and how I've been treated). I feel it has served me well. Whenever I was ghosted after the first or second date, that was fine, next. However, if after the 3rd date something like that would happen, I'd usually at least ask for an explanation. I always got it, and vice versa. Because people are overwhelmed, the first 3 dates are about establishing that connection, if it doesn't happen then it's just what it is. Move on. I know it can be hard but it is an essential skill. All this assumes that you're going on at least 1 date per week. If you go on less dates then it might be hard to move on. I didn't use to get 1 date per week, I worked a lot on that to make that happen. Around 1 date per week (or more), it's easy to "sift through" the people and find the one you can connect with. Connecting with a person, here's how I do it: (1) I embody my best self, (2) I look playfully at the world and (3) start a conversation. I keep embodying my best self and looking playfully at the world. At a certain point I also use non-violent communication to state what I feel or want to request. It's easier for me to be vulnerable that way. It took about 30 dates. I've been in a happy relationship for about a year now. Also, meditation helps. I went to a retreat from Goenka (10 hours per day for 10 days), and what he specifically teaches about equanimity helped me to not take rejections too harsh. Doing all that, dating wasn't hard. It simply took about 300 to 500 hours of effort. It's not nothing and the difficulty has to be respected, but I've experienced tougher things in my life than simply putting in a few months worth of full-time effort. What IS hard though is when you feel you're not worthy of love. I used to think that way (thinking I'd die a virgin and all that). One of my biggest reasons why no one seemed to notice me is that I looked too seriously at the world - kind of like how I'm writing this post right now. For me, when I started to let my imagination run free and be playful, dating became easier. Initially, that was a huge shift but now I really enjoy talking playful imaginative nonsense all the time.
So nice to see folks clear eyed about dating - while they're just in their 20's. I'm much older and only now coming to the party on this - I'm arriving at a similar place where we choose to not settle and are at peace and like ourselves and know we cannot be with a partner that cannot enhance our lives, it feels good to be alone, I don't want to ruin it - a potential partner has to have a certain something for me to think it's better than me alone - maybe it exists, possible it may not - and I just won't do something that will diminish me
so so interesting when you asked if you would date someone that checks off the checklist but 5 inches shorter especially because in interpersonal communication someone's appearance gets less and less important as the relationship goes on. it's so nice and refreshing to see someone say yes instead of hell no on the internet.
6:38 oh the tall girl lean, I get you girl! I've never actually heard anyone share their experiences being a tall girl like Elena. As a tall girl myself, I appreciate that conversation immensely, thanks both 🥰
My wife and I are the both 6’1. Wouldn’t change it for anything. Similar struggles in what she wears: Clothes, shoes with the exception of experiences. My wife has had the opposite experience, just pretty normal, with outliers of folks saying she’s tall, or whatever. 10/10 some shorter lady at the grocery store wants something higher than she is. At any rate, Keep strong, find someone that loves you for you and dig deeply into that relationship, no matter what your size.
This has been such a wonderful conversation. Delighted to listen in. Thank you for introducing us to this wonderful woman. I look forward to following her and exploring her content. Similar "On the Couch" might be a new niche for you.
I am a 1,80 m woman and was that tall since I was 12 years old. Difficult as a young person, not so much now. But still I am surprised, when I turn around and look someone in the eyes not on the top of heads.
Commenting on someone’s height is simply a conversation starter. That’s it. And height is typically associated with attractiveness and a positive trait which is why people feel comfortable pointing it out.
This was a great podcast Nathaniel really informative, will definitely comment my experience in dating. You have gained a new subscriber - Elena was great too, she should do more podcasts! Thank you!
I think metropolitan dating is trying to change the landscape of dating as a whole. Meaning people want to be more radical and fluid. People want more of the person than a relationship.
12:35 We have more avenues in which to find people but those of us that truly have options on these mediums are most women and the attractive male elite. It's pretty remarkable how invisible the vast majority of men are on dating apps. I much prefer meeting women in IRL as it's way too easy to treat people on dating apps like their a t-shirt you're buying online.
as someone who is short, i definitely hear "I thought you were taller" when I meet people lmbo Elena you got a whole different type of thang going on but girl I understand
Thank you, Elena, for your work - your advocacy and representation for women, women’s issues, and women’s perspectives matters. Including on this podcast! 🫶
I'm 6ft (182 cm) and can relate to the first comment always being about my height haha! I wear heeled boots most days though. I realised I would get comments regardless of whether or not I wore a short heel so just embraced what I feel best in.
And women think they’re too tall when they’re 5’8! My parent thought I was going to be very tall, as I was tall as a child.. but I ended up being 5’6. I think I skipped a growth spurt or something.. I did have lots of stress as a child and this may have something to do with it. But I’m happy with my height now. I feel for her, imagine being so tall that everyone looks at you.
I am a 5'1 girl and people tell me ALL THE TIME that I'm short. So you definitely get it on both ends. Maybe they just don't tell you that you're short because you're a man
Height in this convo was brought with regards to dating. You are utterly delusional if you think a 5'1 man has the same chances at love as a 5'1 girl, all things being equal.
@@skinnyguy7773 They said that people never go up to you and say you're short if you're short the same way they tell people they are tall. I'm saying that people ALWAYS come up and tell me i'm short....... I never said it makes it harder or easier in regards to dating. I'm just saying that people do tell short people they are short.
I always gravitated toward shorter guys or guys my own height, around 5’6”. It doesn’t matter how tall or short anyone is-it really is about the human inside the body box.
When did height return to being SUCH a big deal? I'm 28 and I've been in a relationship for almost 7 years and because I'm above-average height, I concede that it is not something I ever needed to worry about. That said, it feels like height as it relates to dating is SO much more in the cultural zeitgeist again in recent years. Has social media and dating apps made dating more vain? Feels like there's been some regression in dating culture tbh. It also feels like this has become a huge preoccupation for the cohort slightly younger than myself and it seems like something that is a big deal on the dating apps based on what I've seen in online conversations, screenshots, friend experiences, etc. Very weird, and insanely arbitrary. Height could not mean less about the quality of a person, or even their attractiveness IMO. This makes me feel like such an old man lol.
Height is just an excuse. Social media has made some people super shallow. I wouldn’t want to date someone whose whole career is focused on talking about themselves and their achievements and looking for validation from strangers.
Interesting topic 😊 my husband and I have talked about this a lot! I am 6’1 as well, and my husband is 5’4. We definitely had our fair share of hight related experiences.
Oh thanks for commenting about being a public person. I just started an Instagram page and it’s true that feels weird to say the word “influencer” specifically guys in France take it so bad. Even worse than in the us. Such a problem.
Oh, I'm excited to watch this, I'm 1,80m, so kinda between the two of you. Add to that being a single mom, gifted and neurodivergent and kinda different in many ways. Nothing wrong with all that, there are just not many people who can relate. Takes an exquisite taste. Both of you are very attractive though, inwardly and outwardly. If someone can't see that, that's their loss. Plus there are taller guys and shorter women, it's not too bad. You're not average, but also not that far off.
I guess for a female it can be perceived as odd to be taller than average; however, if one had the choice of being significantly taller or significantly shorter than average, i would say there's probably more advantages than being significantly taller than average.
What I understand later in the podcast that, whatever a girl bluffing for hours about anything, in the end she’s a girl and she’s gonna stick to her basic instincts. And as A Man I better know them, and for my part I should act and behave as a successful Man now or in the future. With love brothers ❤
I am 5ft8 and people also always comment my height but I take it as a compliment why care about its Beautyfuk being tall her height is stunning and she is beautiful ❤
Has anyone thought about how "height" is such a thing, listed on apps and so on, like a job history on your resume, yet "weight" is avoided at all costs, despite the fact that a lot of people have preferencies there as well...and you can actually do something about it, unlike height, which you're stuck with
if you go looking for something, youre not gonna find it. have a hobby, share experiences with girls, and youll fall in love with someone eventually. anytime u try to force love thru a dating app or something, youre not gonna find it
Before dating apps, it was still incredibly hard to find dates unless you had social proof or value or mutual friends. So if you are a person with not a big social group, then dating is 100x harder. Most of my friends have always been on the nerdier side, so I usually have to be the one to try to get people to go out and meet new people. I would walk up to random girls in public I thought were cute. Never anything too cheesy or creepy, but let me tell you when doing this you basically have to sweep someone off their feet because it’s so outside the norm of how people meet. It’s incredibly uncomfortable to make yourself vulnerable enough to do this, and I don’t think most people have done this, especially in places that aren’t bars or clubs. I know this girl is taller but it’s still hard to feel too bad for her because I think at worst she is still has more options than most men or at the same playing field as men. On the apps most tall women say they want taller men, so you have to be 6’2-5. She seems nice though but there is a victimhood happening when she said that women are taught to take up as little space as possible. What are you talking about? I don’t see this in most places. I don’t see meek women afraid to speak up. So idk. I think a lot of our personal experience are based on how we feel rather than what is happening a lot of the time.
2:51 technically true but as someone who is also 5'6" and lived both in the US and multiple countries in Europe, that hasn't been my experience. I've always felt that I'm of average height. Half of the people I see are taller and half are shorter.
Elenaaa I see you i'm 189cm and female. when people tell me i'm tall i want to tell them to fuck off :) makes me bored people being so predictable and only seeing this one feature of me. but i'd also add that I've realised that it doesn't actually stop me from achieving / doing things i could/would if i was shorter.. so it doesn't impact my life so much anymore. thanks for chatting about this x
Look... people want what they want... You can rationalize it all you want, but 95% of the time, the person knows within the first 5 min if someone is a compatible romantic partner. 1. She's not into you because you are wayyy too short for HER. 2. As much emphasis we want to place on "personality", the initial thing that gets you in is physical attraction
It’s difficult in Los Angeles, it’s difficult in Paris… everywhere I live it’s difficult. In dating apps in both cities I just found either guys that broke up two weeks ago so they’re emotional unavailable or guys that are alcoholics or have trauma and won’t work on it. Also, another topic is that they want to “try” all the girls they matched before choosing, for men is very difficult to leave other options as difficult as Turnung off when the foothold match is on. I’m sick I’m completely tired 🥱 I have 32 and have no clue where to meet someone. I tried in the apps I tried in the bars and going out with friends. I tried with meeting friends of friends. At this point I haven’t date with anyone for 6 months and counting. Where am I supposed to meet someone. Yesterday love was such an easy game to play, as the song says.
It's literally the same with vvomen on these apps, full of ghosting and selecting for purely superficial reasons, ie. chasing the top 1% men who they have no chance with anyway, and then complain about them all being emotionally unavailable. Again, the modern dating mess was entirely created by vvomen.
I was 182,5cm (something like 5'11", almost 6'), but lately I'm shrinking due to age, so now I'm closer to 180cm, I think. So even at my tallest I was some 2,5-3cm shorter than Elena. I don't think it really matters that much to me, sure, all ladies I've were shorter than me, but that's just statistics, not my choice. According to stats I live in the country with world's tallest women on average, but that's just average - 169.8cm (5'7"), could be both shorter or taller, of course, there are ladies even among my relatives, who are noticeably taller than me. A couple of years ago saw a girl on local cosplay event, she was REALLY tall (not sure, but could have been 190cm or above), but very, very proportional, not with that long horse face, that some supermodels have, or weirdly elongated limbs. To my own surprise I suddenly turned into... a groupie, I guess. I can't explain why, but she seemed extremely attractive to me. At least I was not squealing. 🤣
I am 6.1 and gay. People always think I consider height but funny enough I don’t consider a lot of stuff like ethnicity… I don’t know am a bit flexible on religion but I guess my limits haven’t been tested
Ngl, the morocco situation isn't because of their culture. Western gaze always makes out non western men as more patriarchal. I'm a black girl from the UK and whenever I go to Italy I'm constantly harrassed and stared at to the point that it can ruin the experience.
Okay Please don't compare men and women "red pill" community (first of all, because there is none on the female side), because women has been oppressed / harassed / abused for centuries and are still, so men complaining is really just BS meanwhile the other side has pretty good reasons to carry pepper spray and other shit to protect themselves.
I think this comment ties in well with my observation of men being generally clueless when it comes to the struggles of women. I don't think most of them realize how good they have things in terms of safety and power.
Yeah super ignorant of him. INCELS are inherently male, for they see women as lesser beings and approach relationships from a perspective of power and control.
Such an interesting topic! As I’ve grown in my relationship with my husband I’ve realized more and more that the person I married is so different than the one I’m married to today. Our views on god and religion have changed, our carriers have changed, our hobbies have changed our relationship with money has changed, etc. Almost nothing is the same 15 years later after first meeting each other. And somehow we still love each other so freaking much. Finding a partner and staying with them has so little to do with the things we have on our “check list” and so much more to do with the unexplainable connection you may have with someone and the effort you are both willing to put into the relationship. ❤
This is incredible!! I love this!
God bless you
this is such a beautiful way to think of relationships, thank you for sharing :)
its so funny if after years you edit this comment to inform us that he has been cheating on you this whole time 🤣
I'm in a similar boat 😊 14 years for my husband and I! It's great you both have deep love for eachother. I believe that soulmates are a very real thing. There's something unexplainable that keeps people together when they're meant to be together. When I met my husband, we were both sure within 2 weeks that we wanted to be together without question.
I’m 25 and this is also a constant topic of conversation between my friends and I! You all put it really well, dating is the only area of life where you can’t necessarily “work” towards meeting your ideal match. 2 things I wanted to add: 1) I hate this notion that’s popped up over the years that’s like, “you just gotta focus on your healing and the right person will come” and I feel like that’s true to an extent but you can also be doing all the things to be a better person and understand yourself better (ex. go to therapy) and that perfect match may still not show up, and 2) I like to think that dating apps have provided us the “illusion” of options because in reality how many people on those apps can you find a true, genuine, connection with? 💭Appreciate you all for this episode!!
I know so many people who have terrible trauma but not healed and that got lucky and met someone who is super supportive. Then they say be confident. Whdn😅I’m super confident I attract narcissists or toxic men. When I’m insecure I put men off I guess. When you meet the rest person none of this matters because no one is perfect. They will accept all of you and your flaws. Like people say stop looking or people say you have to be intentional. I’ve been single for 7 years and I date and I don’t even date my personal preference I’m open minded and I’m still single. I haven’t met anyone that wants to be in a relationship with me. It’s either I don’t like them or they don’t like me. To make it worse I’m not even picky. I guess I’m just an oddball that rarely fits with people so I might never meet someone despite the fact that I attract a lot of people based on my physical looks.
I do agree with you point n1 so much!!
I agree with you!! My partner is super supportive and I am very emotional 😅and I was definitely not in the best place in my life when we met lol but our relationship is very healthy
I agree. I haven't been in a serious relationship since 2016 and I've grown and matured a lot since then (also with the help of therapy). And the right person for me has yet to show up. Sometimes that formula just doesn't work.
Thisss 🔥
She should come to the Netherlands, she'd blend in easily
Facts 😂
Also in Serbia like people here are insanely tall. Im considered almost short and Im 5'6 girl. I know a lot of tall girls and guys who only date tall girls.
I always wondering, how the tall dutch they fit in those small houses😅
If she decides to have children a woman would be tall and find it hard to date but the bright side is both female and male children could be professional Sportspeople.
@lollerlol12 she’s there right now! And she commented on how much she feels at home 😂
I am 167cm and my wife is 175cm. We both said before meeting tbat we would never date someone shorter or taller, but love had other plans
Very cute
Collaboration of dreams 🫡
I'm so happy to hear you both talk about this topic. At some point growing up, I got taller than my mom, and she started complaining about my clothing taking up too much space, my coats and jackets not being elegant enough because of their size, and my shoes looking too large... She grew up being taught to take up as little space as possible and seemed to project that onto me, her daughter. We should take up the space we take up!
I’ve been single seven years after my last relationship almost killed me. I have such a good life now and such a good relationship with myself that I’m hesitant to try dating again because I’m afraid of risking everything I’ve worked so hard to build.
"Seven year" you're crying over spilt milk
@@vklnew9824 no one is crying….?
Girl I feel you 💯! They relationships that almost kill you mentally , emotionally, spiritually and physically! Change you completely! But once you get that self love! You love being alone 💯
I don't understand where we got all confused in the self-development trope about grow yourself first before getting with someone, okay at first it's nice, but like, man, there is a point where keeping out of any love commitment just will keep you in this self bubble of challenges. The amount of personal development that can be done ONLY with being confronted to love emotions and Co-regulation with someone that triggers you is immense.
And also, sorry but if I wait to be "self-developed" to commit in love than i close the door to love cause the concept of self-development doesn't come with a "complete" level where your sky becomes pink 🤣 so you are never going to be able to say when is this time actually
Totally agree.. self development is challenged only when meeting someone.. also you might know your boundaries and what you want but no one will be a package for all that, you will need to meddle in a lot of situations and hopefully don’t let the right one slip just because the self love ego sht being taught nowadays make you think that you can’t provide 1 more day in the week to meet someone you like cause you never did that before so you will not change (happened to me recently with a man that said he liked me and wanted to know me and was sad to end but i was asking for 3 days a week to meet instead of his 2, and i told him I would figure out if I could handle 2 cause i was interested in him anyway…. Despite that he ditched me xD honestly I understood why women always cheated on him)
Also : saying "rather be alone than being with someone for comfort" is a very twentysomething thing to say. Being in a bad relationship just to not be alone is different, but comfort on a long term is absolutely fantastic. Many people pass on great potential partners (for long term!) because they are chasing this romantic movie SPARK.
I've been dating someone for over 2 years now and while he's a great partner in a lot of ways it's a struggle to feel romantic towards someone without a spark. I'm contemplating breaking up because we don't have great physical chemistry. Don't discount the importance of attraction and an initial spark. Different people need different things
I dont wanna date anyone I dont feel passionate for
@@abbylebaddie how do you experience physical intimacy with your partner if there is no spark between you guys? I just cant force myself to kiss or be intimate with anyone when I feel absolutely nothing
@@Melissa-qu4wl it's honestly been a problem in my relationship. Considering ending it. Just have to really think it through.
@@abbylebaddie That spark doesn’t last forever. Out of curiosity, which compromise sounds more tolerable… trading in partners every time the dopamine rush inevitably ends or sharing a history/kinship with someone your heart will never burn for? Which form of regret would you prefer to live with? It’s a tough one.
Maybe it’s because I’m 36 and a lot of the surface level stuff about dating starts to not matter as much, but the idea of not giving someone a chance because of how tall they are is just baffling to me. Height doesn’t matter when your curled up with someone reading on the porch swing 10 years from now. Looks fade, character doesn’t.
It's about the social status that it represents, just like everything else in today's society. Looks and status matter a lot. Good looks are very important to the majority of young(er) people nowadays. Before also of course, but even more so now with social media, such as Instagram. They don't care about in 10 years on the porch swing, they care about how good the pictures look on their social media profiles today. According to the current standards, it doesn't look as good on social media if the boyfriend is shorter than the girlfriend, it's how it is. Perhaps it'll change one day. Everything's a cycle anyway. But I'd say it's fairly new. I was in high school and college about 10-12 years ago, people didn't care as much about that kind of stuff compared to now. Honestly, it's probably related to social media. Because 10 years ago, social media pretty much didn't exist. Back in school, my friends and I didn't grow up with a phone glued to our hands 24/7 and we didn't care about what people thought about us online... Priorities have switched, a lot.
@@japocAgreed. I think social media has done a disservice to dating in so many ways.
Looks fade through years or other incidents but honestly they do matter a whole lot and we needn't undermine their relevance
Ive noticed im more attracted to energy if that makes sense, looks don't matter that much and its really subjective.
@@mitzara25 I’ve had love interests that initially I wasn’t super attracted to but when I got to know them they became the most attractive person I’d ever been around. Someone’s energy, character and vibe can make them so much more “attractive”. I’ve also been with traditional pretty people that were duds on the inside. You just don’t know until you give them a chance.
Damn, I like this girl a lot. When she said you’re alone in your head for the rest of your life I felt that.
So inspiring you guys!!! I especially resonated with Elena's words at 22:46 about the loss of empathy and respect through Dating Apps (this is SO true and I thought about that myself very often recently)! So good to hear these thoughts are also having other people not just myself. Thank you guys!
So happy you got Elena on the podcast! I loved this episode :)
Wow this was such a great conversation! As a mid 20s man in NYC, I relate to the struggles and the complexities of 'finding the one' in metropolitan city where there's just so many options. It's refreshing to hear you ask questions that can be more sensitive like height and finances. Looking forward to more of these chats :)
NY is a shit show. Notice how the appearance of women changes dramatically between Greenwich Village and Inwood.
Why all Asians in NYC are named Kevin?
People initially are replaceable IMO, because you don't really know them. This goes for myself as well. What makes people initially replaceable is that people are overwhelmed and that no strong connection has been established. The moment I have been on any date where a strong connection was established, the respect was there. In my experience, it usually takes 3 dates for it to become solid enough. If anything happens before that it is not personal by any means, it can't be.
That's how I treated my dates (and how I've been treated). I feel it has served me well. Whenever I was ghosted after the first or second date, that was fine, next. However, if after the 3rd date something like that would happen, I'd usually at least ask for an explanation. I always got it, and vice versa. Because people are overwhelmed, the first 3 dates are about establishing that connection, if it doesn't happen then it's just what it is. Move on. I know it can be hard but it is an essential skill.
All this assumes that you're going on at least 1 date per week. If you go on less dates then it might be hard to move on. I didn't use to get 1 date per week, I worked a lot on that to make that happen. Around 1 date per week (or more), it's easy to "sift through" the people and find the one you can connect with. Connecting with a person, here's how I do it: (1) I embody my best self, (2) I look playfully at the world and (3) start a conversation. I keep embodying my best self and looking playfully at the world. At a certain point I also use non-violent communication to state what I feel or want to request. It's easier for me to be vulnerable that way. It took about 30 dates. I've been in a happy relationship for about a year now.
Also, meditation helps. I went to a retreat from Goenka (10 hours per day for 10 days), and what he specifically teaches about equanimity helped me to not take rejections too harsh.
Doing all that, dating wasn't hard. It simply took about 300 to 500 hours of effort. It's not nothing and the difficulty has to be respected, but I've experienced tougher things in my life than simply putting in a few months worth of full-time effort. What IS hard though is when you feel you're not worthy of love. I used to think that way (thinking I'd die a virgin and all that). One of my biggest reasons why no one seemed to notice me is that I looked too seriously at the world - kind of like how I'm writing this post right now. For me, when I started to let my imagination run free and be playful, dating became easier. Initially, that was a huge shift but now I really enjoy talking playful imaginative nonsense all the time.
Elena is that girl! So thoughtful and intentional with her content and the way she lives her life. Such a thought-provoking and genuine conversation.
you guys have such good chemistry!!❤❤
So nice to see folks clear eyed about dating - while they're just in their 20's. I'm much older and only now coming to the party on this - I'm arriving at a similar place where we choose to not settle and are at peace and like ourselves and know we cannot be with a partner that cannot enhance our lives, it feels good to be alone, I don't want to ruin it - a potential partner has to have a certain something for me to think it's better than me alone - maybe it exists, possible it may not - and I just won't do something that will diminish me
so so interesting when you asked if you would date someone that checks off the checklist but 5 inches shorter especially because in interpersonal communication someone's appearance gets less and less important as the relationship goes on. it's so nice and refreshing to see someone say yes instead of hell no on the internet.
6:38 oh the tall girl lean, I get you girl! I've never actually heard anyone share their experiences being a tall girl like Elena. As a tall girl myself, I appreciate that conversation immensely, thanks both 🥰
My wife and I are the both 6’1. Wouldn’t change it for anything. Similar struggles in what she wears: Clothes, shoes with the exception of experiences. My wife has had the opposite experience, just pretty normal, with outliers of folks saying she’s tall, or whatever. 10/10 some shorter lady at the grocery store wants something higher than she is. At any rate, Keep strong, find someone that loves you for you and dig deeply into that relationship, no matter what your size.
This has been such a wonderful conversation. Delighted to listen in. Thank you for introducing us to this wonderful woman. I look forward to following her and exploring her content. Similar "On the Couch" might be a new niche for you.
Small advice for Nathaniel: ask one question at a time for more clarity.
I enjoyed this conversation so much, I played it on repeat already. Thanks guys 👌🏻
Really loved this chat! both perspectives were really interesting and helpful to hear.
I am a 1,80 m woman and was that tall since I was 12 years old. Difficult as a young person, not so much now. But still I am surprised, when I turn around and look someone in the eyes not on the top of heads.
Really enjoyed how raw and vulnerable this conversation is, great job Nathaniel and Elena❤
Commenting on someone’s height is simply a conversation starter. That’s it. And height is typically associated with attractiveness and a positive trait which is why people feel comfortable pointing it out.
This was a great podcast Nathaniel really informative, will definitely comment my experience in dating. You have gained a new subscriber - Elena was great too, she should do more podcasts! Thank you!
It's nice to see you so comfortable. Great chat, thank you 🌻
Great conversation! She seems chill.
What an awesome discussion, does anyone know of any podcasts that talk about dating like this?
I think metropolitan dating is trying to change the landscape of dating as a whole. Meaning people want to be more radical and fluid. People want more of the person than a relationship.
I'm genuinely enjoying this podcast series. Could definitely relate to this one as I'm Elenas height. But so fun to hear from both of the perspectives
12:35 We have more avenues in which to find people but those of us that truly have options on these mediums are most women and the attractive male elite. It's pretty remarkable how invisible the vast majority of men are on dating apps.
I much prefer meeting women in IRL as it's way too easy to treat people on dating apps like their a t-shirt you're buying online.
Brilliant to see all the different perspectives, very glad to see this content!
Loved the conversation! Thanks for sharing these thoughts with us
You guys should just date already!!!
People went from treating relationships like character studies to treating them like comic books
thank you for converting to metric!!!
as someone who is short, i definitely hear "I thought you were taller" when I meet people lmbo Elena you got a whole different type of thang going on but girl I understand
Been waiting for this collab, excited to listen!
Great podcast, great conversation ! Moral of the story : stop dating apps and talk to people irl. Thats it hehe
the tall girl lean!! yes, give us our own lingo 💃
Fantastic interaction you guys!💯
I’m exactly the same height and have 0 comments in daily life. Living in the Netherlands is blissful for tall women 👌
i'm 189F from Aus, I moved briefly to NL and YES! NO ONE commented on my height, it was like a holiday ahaha
Thank you, Elena, for your work - your advocacy and representation for women, women’s issues, and women’s perspectives matters. Including on this podcast! 🫶
Also, I just finished On All Fronts after seeing it in one of your vlogs. SO good - five stars from me!! @ElenaTaber
1:20 6:01 12:21 21:10 23:58 25:56 29:30 51:40
Thoroughly enjoyed this
I'm 6ft (182 cm) and can relate to the first comment always being about my height haha! I wear heeled boots most days though. I realised I would get comments regardless of whether or not I wore a short heel so just embraced what I feel best in.
YOU GO!!!!
Loved this conversation!! So interesting to hear two unique dating perspectives!
Loved this! Thanks for sharing and keep going with the podcast. Very cool man
I love Elena and her content is one of the best on RUclips ❤
Wow those must be heavy mics to hold.
very good episode! you guys vibe
Loved the conversation.
In the Netherlands the average height of men is over 6.1.
And women think they’re too tall when they’re 5’8! My parent thought I was going to be very tall, as
I was tall as a child.. but I ended up being 5’6. I think I skipped a growth spurt or something.. I did have lots of stress as a child and this may have something to do with it. But I’m happy with my height now. I feel for her, imagine being so tall that everyone looks at you.
I am a 5'1 girl and people tell me ALL THE TIME that I'm short. So you definitely get it on both ends. Maybe they just don't tell you that you're short because you're a man
Height in this convo was brought with regards to dating. You are utterly delusional if you think a 5'1 man has the same chances at love as a 5'1 girl, all things being equal.
@@skinnyguy7773 They said that people never go up to you and say you're short if you're short the same way they tell people they are tall. I'm saying that people ALWAYS come up and tell me i'm short....... I never said it makes it harder or easier in regards to dating. I'm just saying that people do tell short people they are short.
I always gravitated toward shorter guys or guys my own height, around 5’6”. It doesn’t matter how tall or short anyone is-it really is about the human inside the body box.
Let's take a moment to zoom in on Nathan's biceps and triceps
Its hard to find authentic person, because thats the one key for healthy relationship.
I am 6‘6 and a good guy….so Elena you wanna come to germany for a coffee date? :D
25:50 “That’s what dating apps don’t show you.” And yet she thinks he is too short for her to date.
she isn't wrong. you wouldn't pair a poodle with a bernhardiner either.
When did height return to being SUCH a big deal? I'm 28 and I've been in a relationship for almost 7 years and because I'm above-average height, I concede that it is not something I ever needed to worry about. That said, it feels like height as it relates to dating is SO much more in the cultural zeitgeist again in recent years. Has social media and dating apps made dating more vain? Feels like there's been some regression in dating culture tbh.
It also feels like this has become a huge preoccupation for the cohort slightly younger than myself and it seems like something that is a big deal on the dating apps based on what I've seen in online conversations, screenshots, friend experiences, etc. Very weird, and insanely arbitrary. Height could not mean less about the quality of a person, or even their attractiveness IMO. This makes me feel like such an old man lol.
Height is just an excuse. Social media has made some people super shallow. I wouldn’t want to date someone whose whole career is focused on talking about themselves and their achievements and looking for validation from strangers.
I’m about 6’6 and I thought tall girls would be a great and easy match but they seemed aloof. However short girls leaned in hard. My wife is 5’3.
Interesting topic 😊 my husband and I have talked about this a lot! I am 6’1 as well, and my husband is 5’4. We definitely had our fair share of hight related experiences.
now this is a height difference
That's a fascinating combo
I looove it
Oh thanks for commenting about being a public person. I just started an Instagram page and it’s true that feels weird to say the word “influencer” specifically guys in France take it so bad. Even worse than in the us. Such a problem.
They prefer someone that has a normal career like doctor lawyer etc accounting consulting. So few people understand the “new jobs”.
I'd honestly LOVE dating a taller woman. Idk what it is but they are so incredibly attractive and basketball players for kids is a plus lol
lol i see georgia o keefe's paintings at the national gallery of art on a weekly basis...i see her art all the time basically
As a short king tall women are dope yo
you will never hear them say that about you, not sure why you see the need to validate them further.
I love a short king ❤
She's so right about, "How did our parents do it?" I wonder this about all boomer relationships
No online porn, no dating apps, no social media, no cellphones...
Divorce was frowned about then some were happy but I think alot of people were miserable and just tolerated people because that was the norm.
Oh, I'm excited to watch this, I'm 1,80m, so kinda between the two of you.
Add to that being a single mom, gifted and neurodivergent and kinda different in many ways. Nothing wrong with all that, there are just not many people who can relate. Takes an exquisite taste.
Both of you are very attractive though, inwardly and outwardly.
If someone can't see that, that's their loss.
Plus there are taller guys and shorter women, it's not too bad. You're not average, but also not that far off.
Nice episode
I guess for a female it can be perceived as odd to be taller than average; however, if one had the choice of being significantly taller or significantly shorter than average, i would say there's probably more advantages than being significantly taller than average.
Hi from a fellow 6‘1 tall Elena! Love from Italy x
What I understand later in the podcast that, whatever a girl bluffing for hours about anything, in the end she’s a girl and she’s gonna stick to her basic instincts.
And as A Man I better know them, and for my part I should act and behave as a successful Man now or in the future.
With love brothers ❤
I am 5ft8 and people also always comment my height but I take it as a compliment why care about its Beautyfuk being tall her height is stunning and she is beautiful ❤
Has anyone thought about how "height" is such a thing, listed on apps and so on, like a job history on your resume, yet "weight" is avoided at all costs, despite the fact that a lot of people have preferencies there as well...and you can actually do something about it, unlike height, which you're stuck with
if you go looking for something, youre not gonna find it. have a hobby, share experiences with girls, and youll fall in love with someone eventually. anytime u try to force love thru a dating app or something, youre not gonna find it
No such thing as "love", 21st century humans are wastrel.
Not even remotely true
ok
Before dating apps, it was still incredibly hard to find dates unless you had social proof or value or mutual friends. So if you are a person with not a big social group, then dating is 100x harder. Most of my friends have always been on the nerdier side, so I usually have to be the one to try to get people to go out and meet new people. I would walk up to random girls in public I thought were cute. Never anything too cheesy or creepy, but let me tell you when doing this you basically have to sweep someone off their feet because it’s so outside the norm of how people meet. It’s incredibly uncomfortable to make yourself vulnerable enough to do this, and I don’t think most people have done this, especially in places that aren’t bars or clubs. I know this girl is taller but it’s still hard to feel too bad for her because I think at worst she is still has more options than most men or at the same playing field as men. On the apps most tall women say they want taller men, so you have to be 6’2-5. She seems nice though but there is a victimhood happening when she said that women are taught to take up as little space as possible. What are you talking about? I don’t see this in most places. I don’t see meek women afraid to speak up. So idk. I think a lot of our personal experience are based on how we feel rather than what is happening a lot of the time.
Can you talk about age difference?
2:51 technically true but as someone who is also 5'6" and lived both in the US and multiple countries in Europe, that hasn't been my experience. I've always felt that I'm of average height. Half of the people I see are taller and half are shorter.
Elenaaa I see you i'm 189cm and female. when people tell me i'm tall i want to tell them to fuck off :) makes me bored people being so predictable and only seeing this one feature of me. but i'd also add that I've realised that it doesn't actually stop me from achieving / doing things i could/would if i was shorter.. so it doesn't impact my life so much anymore. thanks for chatting about this x
Look... people want what they want... You can rationalize it all you want, but 95% of the time, the person knows within the first 5 min if someone is a compatible romantic partner.
1. She's not into you because you are wayyy too short for HER.
2. As much emphasis we want to place on "personality", the initial thing that gets you in is physical attraction
True.
Elena is gorgeous, the only people feeling insecure about her height are shorter men.
It’s difficult in Los Angeles, it’s difficult in Paris… everywhere I live it’s difficult. In dating apps in both cities I just found either guys that broke up two weeks ago so they’re emotional unavailable or guys that are alcoholics or have trauma and won’t work on it. Also, another topic is that they want to “try” all the girls they matched before choosing, for men is very difficult to leave other options as difficult as Turnung off when the foothold match is on. I’m sick I’m completely tired 🥱 I have 32 and have no clue where to meet someone. I tried in the apps I tried in the bars and going out with friends. I tried with meeting friends of friends. At this point I haven’t date with anyone for 6 months and counting. Where am I supposed to meet someone. Yesterday love was such an easy game to play, as the song says.
Football match*
Hmm maybe don’t search or approach guys there are more options open ❤
Which one?
@@user-xt6cr5dm6l shes sayin bush
It's literally the same with vvomen on these apps, full of ghosting and selecting for purely superficial reasons, ie. chasing the top 1% men who they have no chance with anyway, and then complain about them all being emotionally unavailable. Again, the modern dating mess was entirely created by vvomen.
There ARE (plural) FEWER (countable) options...etc.
It would be so cool to have purple palace on the podcast
Hey, in Holland you will feel short!
I LOVE this episode! I‘m 6‘2 myself and always felt like I was too tall
why
Im 6'5 , i cannot find tall girl , at least 6ft. Also nightmare
why everyone of your videos have those green and purple bar at the top? and generally looks distorted?
I was 182,5cm (something like 5'11", almost 6'), but lately I'm shrinking due to age, so now I'm closer to 180cm, I think. So even at my tallest I was some 2,5-3cm shorter than Elena.
I don't think it really matters that much to me, sure, all ladies I've were shorter than me, but that's just statistics, not my choice. According to stats I live in the country with world's tallest women on average, but that's just average - 169.8cm (5'7"), could be both shorter or taller, of course, there are ladies even among my relatives, who are noticeably taller than me.
A couple of years ago saw a girl on local cosplay event, she was REALLY tall (not sure, but could have been 190cm or above), but very, very proportional, not with that long horse face, that some supermodels have, or weirdly elongated limbs. To my own surprise I suddenly turned into... a groupie, I guess. I can't explain why, but she seemed extremely attractive to me. At least I was not squealing. 🤣
Nathanial, come to Colombia! You will be above average height here 😉
I am 6.1 and gay. People always think I consider height but funny enough I don’t consider a lot of stuff like ethnicity… I don’t know am a bit flexible on religion but I guess my limits haven’t been tested
Who was Elena talking about?
Great talk! I’m a hermit 😅
Ngl, the morocco situation isn't because of their culture. Western gaze always makes out non western men as more patriarchal. I'm a black girl from the UK and whenever I go to Italy I'm constantly harrassed and stared at to the point that it can ruin the experience.
I've heard many women say this about italy haha.
@@55CINCO55 "haha" ? no.
Italians don't like black people unfortunately. It's a huge problem
Okay Please don't compare men and women "red pill" community (first of all, because there is none on the female side), because women has been oppressed / harassed / abused for centuries and are still, so men complaining is really just BS meanwhile the other side has pretty good reasons to carry pepper spray and other shit to protect themselves.
I think this comment ties in well with my observation of men being generally clueless when it comes to the struggles of women. I don't think most of them realize how good they have things in terms of safety and power.
@@maypap13 Thank you! Great input!
Thank you for saying this! I was uncomfortable with that comparison.
Yeah super ignorant of him. INCELS are inherently male, for they see women as lesser beings and approach relationships from a perspective of power and control.
Poorly aged mid