Great stuff. Even today I still largely agree with John Cormack. A good story is nice and certainly enhances an already good game. However, it seems a fair amount of games today seem to have put so much focus in the story, the focus on gameplay, fun etc. seems to have been lost. Watched a video review of Red Dead 2 from one of the big sites recently, and almost the entire thing was about narrative, character motivation, arcs, and not about how it FEELS; mechanics, structure and the like. Glad I was the only one in the comments that picked up on that. Ace video sir
Appreciate the comment! Not played RDR2 yet but I've heard mixed things about the gameplay, (immersion getting priority over fun) but funnily enough that controversy has made me want to play it more! In several cases I agree with you that gameplay is often sacrificed for good story and vice versa. Walking sims often have some of the best narratives in the biz but they seldom make me think 'Gosh, all this walking is fun!' While I don't think games always need to be a joy to play, they do need to offer an enriching experience to the player - as you say, games should make us FEEL and that can best be achieved through a melding of mechanics and narratives... Like all things in life, balance is key.
Eyebrow Owl spot on sir, and yeah my mate who’s opinion on games I trust said basically that - too much gameplay has been sacrificed for immersion, and the graphics are the main draw. Like you I still want to play on PC when it comes out, graphics will be even madder haha
Still gotta check out the Kingdom hearts games, Final Fantasy has got some pretty great emotional moments too - got a lot of faith in Square Enix's ability to make me feel some feels
An added layer for me is that the pieces of media that typically make me cry are ones that I have watched multiple times. Like, there are a handful of scenes in Avatar: The Last Airbender that make me cry pretty much every time I watch the show, but those moments did not hit me in the same way while watching it for the first time. I think things changed on subsequent viewings because by then I felt more connected to the characters and narrative. I just don't replay games as often as I rewatch things, for whatever reason. And when I do replay things, it is typically to get achievements/trophies which kinda sucks all the emotion out of a thing.
You're so right, you build up that connection to characters and moments much more when you revisit something you love. There's certainly films I well up at before the emotional moment even starts because I know how painful the upcoming scene will be. Game's have got a harder time of it because they're designed to be played in a thousand different ways, no matter how hard you direct a moment in a game, your camera could be pointed at the wrong thing or a glitch could spoil the moment (or an achievement pops up). I seldom replay games to re-experience emotional moments too, I wanna replay things to feel the gameplay highs and lows, often skipping cutscenes and story beats to keep me in the action for longer. I do love making friends play Brother's a Tale of Two Sons to watch their reactions to key scenes - this is how I like to re-live gaming moments.
I think he's since gone back on how blunt he was with that quote, but his overlying opinion on story vs game-play still stands. This was his tweet from 2018: "This old quote still pops up, but I caveat it today - there are undeniably lots of games where the story is the entire point, and they can be done well. I do still hold that the most important games have been all about the play, not the story."
@@eyebrowowl9292 I agree with Carmack to varying degrees but I can't help but find him funny because of how story driven Doom 3 and Rage were. With Doom 3, Carmack took inspiration from two story driven franchises Half Life and System Shock. Its just really funny.
Great stuff. Even today I still largely agree with John Cormack. A good story is nice and certainly enhances an already good game. However, it seems a fair amount of games today seem to have put so much focus in the story, the focus on gameplay, fun etc. seems to have been lost. Watched a video review of Red Dead 2 from one of the big sites recently, and almost the entire thing was about narrative, character motivation, arcs, and not about how it FEELS; mechanics, structure and the like. Glad I was the only one in the comments that picked up on that. Ace video sir
Appreciate the comment! Not played RDR2 yet but I've heard mixed things about the gameplay, (immersion getting priority over fun) but funnily enough that controversy has made me want to play it more!
In several cases I agree with you that gameplay is often sacrificed for good story and vice versa. Walking sims often have some of the best narratives in the biz but they seldom make me think 'Gosh, all this walking is fun!' While I don't think games always need to be a joy to play, they do need to offer an enriching experience to the player - as you say, games should make us FEEL and that can best be achieved through a melding of mechanics and narratives... Like all things in life, balance is key.
Eyebrow Owl spot on sir, and yeah my mate who’s opinion on games I trust said basically that - too much gameplay has been sacrificed for immersion, and the graphics are the main draw. Like you I still want to play on PC when it comes out, graphics will be even madder haha
for me, it varies from game to game, for example, kingdom hearts makes me cry like a baby on some moments even with sometimes confusing narrative
Still gotta check out the Kingdom hearts games, Final Fantasy has got some pretty great emotional moments too - got a lot of faith in Square Enix's ability to make me feel some feels
An added layer for me is that the pieces of media that typically make me cry are ones that I have watched multiple times. Like, there are a handful of scenes in Avatar: The Last Airbender that make me cry pretty much every time I watch the show, but those moments did not hit me in the same way while watching it for the first time. I think things changed on subsequent viewings because by then I felt more connected to the characters and narrative. I just don't replay games as often as I rewatch things, for whatever reason. And when I do replay things, it is typically to get achievements/trophies which kinda sucks all the emotion out of a thing.
You're so right, you build up that connection to characters and moments much more when you revisit something you love. There's certainly films I well up at before the emotional moment even starts because I know how painful the upcoming scene will be. Game's have got a harder time of it because they're designed to be played in a thousand different ways, no matter how hard you direct a moment in a game, your camera could be pointed at the wrong thing or a glitch could spoil the moment (or an achievement pops up). I seldom replay games to re-experience emotional moments too, I wanna replay things to feel the gameplay highs and lows, often skipping cutscenes and story beats to keep me in the action for longer. I do love making friends play Brother's a Tale of Two Sons to watch their reactions to key scenes - this is how I like to re-live gaming moments.
John Carmack himself disagrees with that quote since you know, Doom 3.
I think he's since gone back on how blunt he was with that quote, but his overlying opinion on story vs game-play still stands. This was his tweet from 2018:
"This old quote still pops up, but I caveat it today - there are undeniably lots of games where the story is the entire point, and they can be done well. I do still hold that the most important games have been all about the play, not the story."
@@eyebrowowl9292
I agree with Carmack to varying degrees but I can't help but find him funny because of how story driven Doom 3 and Rage were.
With Doom 3, Carmack took inspiration from two story driven franchises Half Life and System Shock. Its just really funny.