Amazing insight with tail shapes!! I always wondered how the shapes influences the turns with swallow tails. The round tail is the most obvious one for me to understand but when compared to the other tails, it put it all together nicely 👌
Really cool video, thankyou. Clear to see there is a type of wave for each of those boards and the square tail performed best in the pool giving decent control with nice release when pushed.
This is awesome, give a some things to think about. The reason I added a round tail to my quiver was so I could get in more critical areas on bigger waves and get more speed out of those barrels once I gain the confidence that is. Probably my rounded squash tail would go well in a pool scenario.
Hi Clayton. My favourite for the pool and mediterranean waves is a pyzel gremlin custom roundtail, thinned and widened compared to stock dims (around 5'8 x20 5/8x 2 5/16) to generate more planing surface but still have the sensibility of thinner rails and the roundtail.. also, i use a thruster setup with large frontfins and a small centre fin which helps generating speed but lets it pivot flat more easily in those overly tight edgy pool middle and end sections..i really like the forgiving rocker of the ghost family, the gremlin although made for small waves can also handle late drops quite well..i am a bit frontfooted coming from snowboarding and riversurfing and don't use too much power in turns, so roundtails help compensating for that..
This makes so much sense Clayton! I’ve been surfing swallow tail boards the last year with a variety of designs/volume and throughout ALL have noticed a considerable lack in turning ease with a longer drawn turning radius preventing me to turn tighter (& essentially easier).. having just gone back to a rounded square tail board I feel way more in control of my turns & my turning ability has improved. Love the value Clayton 🪬
I shape my own boards. Surfed the new pool in Sydney three times now. Took two 5’ 10”s round pin and a squash tail. Instantly could feel the difference in foil thickness, tail rocker and tail thickness. Pivot. You need to be in the pocket in the pool. Agree it’s very different to the ocean. Like the experiment with different tail shapes. This is a great video, cheers.
Great video! Would fin choice make a bigger difference? Would be good to do the same test again running the square tail as a quad, round tail as a thruster and swallow as a twinny
Another awesome video. Thanks Clayton! It’d be interesting to see you ride the same board in different dims and see how that affects your surfing and what adjustments you’d have to make. For example for the same square tail, what if your stretched it to 5’3 or even 5’4. What kind of adjustments do you have to make? It would also help us in picking the right dimensions for a board.
This is a great demonstration. I have manydifferent boards, but the problem is that while one is a swallow tail and the other a round tail, they have different length, width, thickness etc so it's hard to draw any conclusions about them... too many confounding variables
Love this. Did you surf these boards in 3 different sessions (so say 12 waves each) or did you surf them in one or two sessions and swapping your board mid way through? Just wondering as you mention the transition to each different tail shape and then having to adjust to it. Wondering how many waves did your adjustment take each time. Also seems to me you need a rail round for the bottom turn, square for the top and then the swallow for the last turn .... maybe design a board that can magically change shapes on the wave ... that would be seriously cool.
If anyone reads these comments? I think Clay may be referring to the same thing as dynamic soaring. It's super dangerous for manned aircraft but super fun for RC.
Great experiment. I can't disagree with any part. I have alway preferred square tails and you confirm everything I felt. But your experiment was much more conclusive than my lay opinion.👍🏻
Fantastic info! I’m a wanna be surfboard builder and my focus is on wake surfboards. If you’re up for a challenge I’d love to hear your thoughts on some things
This is great, thanks. You could of made a 4th board with a rounded square tail, that might of given you a happy medium between the square and the round tail and would of been interesting to of compared all 4 boards.
yeah I was thinking the same, my older board has a rounded squash tail and I remember it being exactly that a medium / between of a squash and round tail. I am too heavy for it now as I think when I had it shaped for me I was 65kgs…(one moment later / 20yrs 😂) not sure, the board was 28 litres. Now I love my 34 litre boards.
Tail shapes are largely cosmetic unless youre surfing at a super high level the difference is hardly perceptable especially on that pool wave. However because the width of the tail is very different between the 3 boards along with the fin setup that will feel different. Most important design characteristic BY FAR is rocker. Rocker will make or break a board. Its also the most complicated in the way nose and tail rocker interact with volume, rail line, fin configuration, bottom contours and style/size of waves youre targeting.
@@claytonnienaber1795 an additional thought - what about fins? were you using the same fins / fin setup on each board? Fins also influence turns etc. e.g. keels = more drawn out
Very interesting thanks very much! I was just wondering if in addition you had any thoughts on optimal entry and exit rocker? Understand that low rocker isn't ideal, but where in the spectrum do you think is best?
The quad board would be pushing you out wider at Urbn in to the flat of the wave The thruster would pivot better ? Esp with an upright fin How does the 2+1 affect the board at Urbn I see lots of guys using 2+1 or even Winnie’s seem popular in the pool
Did you find the round tail have similar issue in ocean as well compared to square? Would love to see you now do the same analysis of these three tail shapes in ocean so we get an idea of how wave pool waves rly differ from ocean. I liked your surfing on the roundtail the most actually. I think it looked the best and also forces you to surf on rail rather than force a flat top turn. Maybe takes more conscious thinking to surf but once you get that dialed it looks the most smooth and true rail to rail surfing
Surfed my round tail at my local crappy beachy when it was 2-3. I bottom turned up and cracked the lip hard and my board ended up inside the wave lol sounds like the wave pool is pretty similar
I think you surfed better on the swallow tail, discounting the first bottom turn, it went smooth. For the round tail I think would have been better if you did the turn lower on the wall. The squash I feel like you got more stuck on the maneuver, not much line/rail after the bottoo turn.
Btw you surf good, nice style too. U surf better than me for sure but that pool wave makes you surf terrible. Makes everybody surf terrible. Though i appreciate your quest for a good pool board as a niche for shapers as more pools come online. But wouldnt a standard groveler type board do the job?
Great video! You also just explained why squash or rounded square tails are the most popular tail design for everyday waves
Amazing insight with tail shapes!! I always wondered how the shapes influences the turns with swallow tails. The round tail is the most obvious one for me to understand but when compared to the other tails, it put it all together nicely 👌
Best ever explanation of how tail shapes impact surfing, how to choose it and what to expect
Thanks
Really cool video, thankyou. Clear to see there is a type of wave for each of those boards and the square tail performed best in the pool giving decent control with nice release when pushed.
Great vid! Thanks for all the effort shaping and glassing the boards and evaluating them!
This is awesome, give a some things to think about.
The reason I added a round tail to my quiver was so I could get in more critical areas on bigger waves and get more speed out of those barrels once I gain the confidence that is.
Probably my rounded squash tail would go well in a pool scenario.
Definitely
Thanks for all the effort you put into this. Ive always used round pins....get stuck up at the top way too many times
Hi Clayton. My favourite for the pool and mediterranean waves is a pyzel gremlin custom roundtail, thinned and widened compared to stock dims (around 5'8 x20 5/8x 2 5/16) to generate more planing surface but still have the sensibility of thinner rails and the roundtail.. also, i use a thruster setup with large frontfins and a small centre fin which helps generating speed but lets it pivot flat more easily in those overly tight edgy pool middle and end sections..i really like the forgiving rocker of the ghost family, the gremlin although made for small waves can also handle late drops quite well..i am a bit frontfooted coming from snowboarding and riversurfing and don't use too much power in turns, so roundtails help compensating for that..
ah and great video, thanks for that
This makes so much sense Clayton!
I’ve been surfing swallow tail boards the last year with a variety of designs/volume and throughout ALL have noticed a considerable lack in turning ease with a longer drawn turning radius preventing me to turn tighter (& essentially easier).. having just gone back to a rounded square tail board I feel way more in control of my turns & my turning ability has improved. Love the value Clayton 🪬
Good choice
fantastic review, cheers!
Great vid Clay, really fascinating to watch.
I shape my own boards. Surfed the new pool in Sydney three times now. Took two 5’ 10”s round pin and a squash tail. Instantly could feel the difference in foil thickness, tail rocker and tail thickness. Pivot. You need to be in the pocket in the pool. Agree it’s very different to the ocean. Like the experiment with different tail shapes. This is a great video, cheers.
Love that you a shaping your own boards and learning. Epic
loved it ❤
Thanks 😊
Fantastic vid! almost a scientific approach comparing apples with apples (same surfer, same wave, different tails). Very instructive.
Tried to keep it like that. Glad you appreciate the effort. Thanks for watching
Great video! Would fin choice make a bigger difference? Would be good to do the same test again running the square tail as a quad, round tail as a thruster and swallow as a twinny
Definitely would. I did various fins to compliment the shapes
Awesome vid, please keep them flowing! ❤️
Just curious which wave were you surfing there, advanced turns? Thanks great vid!
Yep 😊
Wich means a round/square tail should suit you best
Another awesome video. Thanks Clayton! It’d be interesting to see you ride the same board in different dims and see how that affects your surfing and what adjustments you’d have to make. For example for the same square tail, what if your stretched it to 5’3 or even 5’4. What kind of adjustments do you have to make? It would also help us in picking the right dimensions for a board.
Goin next level dudes 📈💪🏻
This is a great demonstration. I have manydifferent boards, but the problem is that while one is a swallow tail and the other a round tail, they have different length, width, thickness etc so it's hard to draw any conclusions about them... too many confounding variables
Love this. Did you surf these boards in 3 different sessions (so say 12 waves each) or did you surf them in one or two sessions and swapping your board mid way through? Just wondering as you mention the transition to each different tail shape and then having to adjust to it. Wondering how many waves did your adjustment take each time. Also seems to me you need a rail round for the bottom turn, square for the top and then the swallow for the last turn .... maybe design a board that can magically change shapes on the wave ... that would be seriously cool.
One session and I had 3-4 waves on each
I would be interested in also understanding which fin setups you were using.
Great vid, love the analysis 👌🏽
Glad to hear it!
If anyone reads these comments? I think Clay may be referring to the same thing as dynamic soaring. It's super dangerous for manned aircraft but super fun for RC.
Interesting concept
Great experiment. I can't disagree with any part. I have alway preferred square tails and you confirm everything I felt. But your experiment was much more conclusive than my lay opinion.👍🏻
Glad it helped
Fantastic info! I’m a wanna be surfboard builder and my focus is on wake surfboards. If you’re up for a challenge I’d love to hear your thoughts on some things
I’ve made a few. Twins with low wide tail rocker
This is great, thanks. You could of made a 4th board with a rounded square tail, that might of given you a happy medium between the square and the round tail and would of been interesting to of compared all 4 boards.
I’d would have to pay excess baggage on the flights 😂
yeah I was thinking the same, my older board has a rounded squash tail and I remember it being exactly that a medium / between of a squash and round tail.
I am too heavy for it now as I think when I had it shaped for me I was 65kgs…(one moment later / 20yrs 😂) not sure, the board was 28 litres.
Now I love my 34 litre boards.
Tail shapes are largely cosmetic unless youre surfing at a super high level the difference is hardly perceptable especially on that pool wave. However because the width of the tail is very different between the 3 boards along with the fin setup that will feel different. Most important design characteristic BY FAR is rocker. Rocker will make or break a board. Its also the most complicated in the way nose and tail rocker interact with volume, rail line, fin configuration, bottom contours and style/size of waves youre targeting.
All the boards were off the same rocker design file
@@claytonnienaber1795 amazing video, real world nitty gritty details! Thank you for your efforts!
interesting discussion. Now I understand why I love my fish!
Each person is unique and has different abilities and needs. It’s good you know what you like
@@claytonnienaber1795 an additional thought - what about fins? were you using the same fins / fin setup on each board? Fins also influence turns etc. e.g. keels = more drawn out
I really want to try a fish as the straighter line with added flow looks really fun
What were the tail contours such as concaves and/or vees?
Vee with long double concaves
Very interesting thanks very much! I was just wondering if in addition you had any thoughts on optimal entry and exit rocker? Understand that low rocker isn't ideal, but where in the spectrum do you think is best?
Rocker is a double edged sword. Too much and you over turn. Not enough and it catches or over projects. Subtle continuous curve is my favourite
Great content guys - been following you on insta since day one!
Love your video. I was wondering if you had considered a diamond tail for the pool?
Are you bringing back the knubster? The fin victim to the most egregious snobbery in surfing.
All the boards used different fin set ups as well
Surely fins play as big a part in the pool as tail
shapes ?
Quads thrusters uprights or racked etc
Yes it does but then it gets messy and complicated for your average person watching
The quad board would be pushing you out wider at Urbn in to the flat of the wave
The thruster would pivot better ? Esp with an upright fin
How does the 2+1 affect the board at Urbn
I see lots of guys using 2+1 or even Winnie’s seem popular in the pool
Did you find the round tail have similar issue in ocean as well compared to square? Would love to see you now do the same analysis of these three tail shapes in ocean so we get an idea of how wave pool waves rly differ from ocean. I liked your surfing on the roundtail the most actually. I think it looked the best and also forces you to surf on rail rather than force a flat top turn. Maybe takes more conscious thinking to surf but once you get that dialed it looks the most smooth and true rail to rail surfing
Ocean is way more forgiving. I like the round tail in the ocean
Surfed my round tail at my local crappy beachy when it was 2-3. I bottom turned up and cracked the lip hard and my board ended up inside the wave lol sounds like the wave pool is pretty similar
Been there made that mistake 😂
@claytonnienaber1795 ever use the sweet potato 2.0 from firewire? Was looking to get one for that break since I end up surf there every so often
Hey clay do you think a more rounded square tail would have been the ultimate combination now in retrospect?
It would help turn more
fascinating
Love this stuff
I have wondered why a surfboard manufacturer did not start marketing a board as "perfect for the wave pool." Perhaps this is a starting point...
Ry Harris aka Eco by Ry in SoCal makes em!
@@MNunez42 Ta!
I think you surfed better on the swallow tail, discounting the first bottom turn, it went smooth. For the round tail I think would have been better if you did the turn lower on the wall. The squash I feel like you got more stuck on the maneuver, not much line/rail after the bottoo turn.
I surfed laterally and
Out on the shoulder on the swallow tail. Not my fav
Looks similar the lost puddle jumper
Similar but different haha 😅
@@claytonnienaber1795 I live near the Lib Tech factory in Washington, their version has the wing tail also
Btw you surf good, nice style too. U surf better than me for sure but that pool wave makes you surf terrible. Makes everybody surf terrible. Though i appreciate your quest for a good pool board as a niche for shapers as more pools come online. But wouldnt a standard groveler type board do the job?
Low rocker may send you out into the shoulder and out of the sweet spot
@@claytonnienaber1795 yes that makes sense, thank you!
Great idea but chapters don’t match, and conclusion is not so clear …
Thanks for the feedback. Hopefully these next few vids are better
I feel like you completely messed up the take-off on the swallow, too far forward.
Probably did actually 100 % might have