Honestly, if the show implied this "the faceless men destoryed valeriya because they corrupted the cycle" I wouldnt have a problem with arya stopping the night king
I mean, you would also have to have Arya believe in that doctrine, rather than simply run away and use the powers for herself/her revenge. That's something the show didn't do at all, instead, having her escape while stabbed multiples times in the gut and after getting thrown in the dirty sewers, lol
@Baamthe25th OR OR OR the faceless men had a plan all along. Everything from talking to Jakhar in a cage, to joinging the faceless men, to rebelling, and finally killing the knight king. They knew, through some magicky gizmo that the only person they could reach who would be at the right place at the right time was arya. Maybe they were even responsible for some of the plot holes around dannys early story and stope her essense or whatever the spell is that transfers phophesy to another person. One faceless men special epilogue and you wrap the show in a bow. Does it really make sense that there are only 2 faceless men? Does it really make sense that they let her learn all their secrets and run away? Its not a school, its a cult. Why didnt anyone come after her?
Funny how danny is also portraied as "the breaker of chains". maybe arya will have a big role against the ice king (George probably told that to the directors of the last season), but we will definetley have some more context involving arya, danny and the faceless men in the books.
"Once they figure a way to work a dead horse, we'll be next. Likely I'll be the first too. 'Edd' they'll say, 'dying's no excuse for laying down no more, so get on up and take this spear, you've got the watch tonight.' Well, I shouldn't be so gloomy. Might be I'll die before they work it out." - Dolorous Edd. We had perfect illustration of the concept all along. I find it amazing that no one before has connected the slaves to the fire wights which were a thing discussed in fandom for at least a decade
GRRM not releasing the last book for 13 years but giving us WoW and Fire and Blood In Between has given us an unexpected Rennaisance of great fan theories
if true, this is such an intricate and incredibly intelligent use of language and expectations on GRRM’s part! for a lot of readers “longing for death” could seem like the slaves were unable to take their own lives, eg Unsullied only acting on commands from the masters, or perhaps the masters had leverage like their loved ones - some attribution to loyalty, love or conditioning that we are used to within GRRM’s universe. but if we consider the valyrian slaves = fire wights, it adds such a tragic and subversive layer to it, and also makes perfect sense thematically and narratively - all men must die, but the slaves stopped being Men ;v; Brilliant job with this video and these comments!
Another thing I noticed in your video is that it says Khal Drogo after being resurrected and left in that "undead" state was folllowing the Sun with his eyes.... That's also the way all those greenseers found under the cave of Bloodraven seek and follow the torch that Hodor had in his hands. They are waiting for Dany's fire to be released from their suffering...😢 That's also why the Undying were reaching for Drogon, they didn't want to steal him, they wanted to be released by fire.
In the books, The Others were described as quite etheral elf like beings (not as depicted on the show) Always suspected they were related to the Valyrians/Targaryens. Some sort of original sin, probably kinslaying and/or Blood Magic, caused the split of Fire & Ice dating back to The Great Empire of the Dawn & the Bloodstone Emperor. ( The show portrayed The Night King as a Dragon Rider. Could be a hint) It's fun to speculate...
The Others could be descendants of the Amethyst Empress and the dragon-riding Valyrians of the Bloodstone Emperor. They both originated from the great empire of the dawn.
Slave Fire Wights. Melisandre! She said the Red Temple buys slaves, and that she was a slave. She is now a fire wight or something undead. The Red Temple continued (or originated?) the practise of firewighting slaves to keep them in service. Could this mean Rhllr is a valyrian god? Or a pre-valyrian GeoD god?
@@elizabethmead2852 Could that mean she is Valyrian? I’ve never heard the theory that’s she’s Valyrian. That would be interesting . However I do rather prefer the theory that she’s bloodravens daughter
I think this is a good and plausible theory. Valyria Incorporated was going for several thousand years, and it couldn't likely keep finding thousands of fresh bodies at the pace they were working their dangerous volcanic mines, at minimum the storied fourteen flames. With this theorized practice, they could continue to make use of bodies already breaking down and beyond repair until the successive resupply or generation of assigned or captured slave labor came into the picture. Thinking it over, they could've used this practice of necromancy in regards to their lab experimentation, with human or other biological subjects that showed " promise ", replicating findings and methods, etc.
I really love this theory. It makes valyrians even bigger monsters and creates even bigger symbolical connection with the others. Good job! I hope that George expands on valyria in the future and either confirms it or denies it. Speaking of undead, I have a theory you may like. Green Guardians theory Green men are one of the biggest mysteries in the entire asoiaf book series. They are kept deliberately obscure and are a centre stage of many of the theories. It's certain they will appear in future books and may be the key to stopping the others. While thinking about them after watching a theory video, I decided to try and find any possible remnants of that idea in elden ring. I think I found them and it could show us who green men really are. I believe that Guardians from elden ring were an idea from George and are a reflection of the idea of green men in elden ring. Guardians are human warriors that protect minor erdtrees spread throught the lands between. Also branches burst from their bodies making them something between a human and a tree. It is said that In accordance with an ancient pact with the Erdtree, it is said that their deaths lead not to destruction, but instead to renewed. eternal life as guardians. We also know that green men are also guarding magical trees because of a pact between humans and children of the forest. What if they aren't just protecting them out of duty, but as a part of benefit of the pact. What if in exchange for keeping their watch, green men were given immortality? Many people imagine green men the same way as green seers trapped in weirwoods. I believe that they are more like mobile magical tree warriors. In stories they even ride elks. Description of guardian swordspear reads: Wielded by guardians of the Minor Erdtrees, known as experts in the arts of combat. In the asoiaf story we hear about order of the greenhand that was foundet by house Gardener. Only best warriors could join the order, similar how only best warriors could become Guardians. Was the order just a human copy of the true magical tree warriors? Green men are already described as half plants with their leaves for hair. What if their antlers are in reality branches? The same way branches grow out of Guardians? In the end I want to mention that elden ring isn't a dream of spring. George never wanted to secretly reveal the ending to his other series. George instead reuses his magical ideas in new ways. George also didn't wrote item descriptions or lore for most monsters, but he definitely wrote the big cosmology and important magic. He definitely wrote about minor erdtress existing and being protected by expert immortal tree warriors
Yeah I agree with all of this, and that’s what I think the pact was, making green men tree warriors somehow, and I think this might also play into the stone warrior idea as well, because if the Weirwoods never die but just turn to stone I wonder if the immortal tree people turn to stone as well just like their trees
@@eldric.stoneskin That is the thing about asoiaf, everything seems to be connected to each other. There is so much symbolism binding every character and magic in the entire story and so much different important inspiration to consider in theories. I even started considering if George was inspired by elfquest because he worked with and I think was friends with its creator. Elfs depicted are smaller than most post Tolkien and could have inspired children of the forest. Wolfriders are also very similar to Starks which could mean Starks literally have wolf ancestry. It also touches on basically the same themes as asoiaf. It is making me crazy and I haven't even finished first main story. (I actually recommend it btw it's great mature comic and it is free on their website) I have no idea how George will resolve all of it. It feels like we have couple of different broken puzzles that have many of the same pieces. I don't even believe that Daenerys has time to invade Westeros and play in politics. The moment she arrives ice zombies will be everywhere. The only thing we can do is to pray that George at least decides not to burn his notes after his death and hopefully delivers his dream of spring.
Genuinely wonderful to find a lore channel of any kind these days where the creator takes time to gather art and assets rather than putting prompts into an AI programme for it to shart out dreadful "art" for every transition. Well done for being an actual youtuber, and your voice is excellent for narration too. A grateful sub for you, mate.
@@eldric.stoneskin I've been subbed since just after you finished your Greyscale Kings series. And, finding out your stance on AI in your videos makes me even more proud that I found your channel. A creator I've been supporting for 3 years has the same opinion when it comes to his channel. The Red Book (Steven Gibb), a Tolkien analysis channel. When I watch your videos, I see the same depth of research & production value. Both of you are among the top channels IMO, and I feel lucky to have found you guys. Great work, Eldric!
Am I mistaken and isn't this all just better visualised versions of Michael Talks About Stuff's theories. I haven't seen through the entire video so I'm not sure if he's been credited somewhere, but it seems like it's just all the same ones he's made.
Excellent. I love how the best ASOIAF theorists are still deepening our understanding the text after all these years. The best, like Eldrich, are getting closer and closer to establishing deep parallels between Ice and Fire. At this rate, you'll have cracked the end of ADOS long before GRRM gets there.
Undead, trapped in torment slaves in the hot volcanos - its hell. That would make the beautiful Valyrians the fallen angels, who run hell. That could make Asshai , or the GeoD Heavan. That would imply that the GeoD had a 'God', to whom there was a rebellion against. The people who rebelled fell out of the GeoD and created various civilisations, including Valyria.
And Daynes and Hightowers are basically Archangel Michael. They descend of the good/neutral factions of the GEotD and they are guardians. The first Hightower was said to have killed the last Dragon in Battle Island and are trying to erase all the magic of the world cause they know what the Bloodstone Emperor and later the valyrians did. We(and also the books characters) are all getting all the info and prophecies wrong.....
I think maybe part of the resurrection trade off is that they can only be a fully functional version of themselves in extreme and agonizing heat environments like a volcano “fueling” their new un-living life now. Thats why drogo was mindless and a husk because he wasn’t in any significant heat. And that’s also why revolting, suicide, and escaping may have not been an option once you were brought back and escape is only viable if you haven’t died yet. It’s like an invisible chain. Because when you try to leave you just lose your mind and will and they come scoop you up. And if you try to hold the mine they’ll just wait until you all starve to death, chain you up, bring you back and put you to work again. And they were only set free when the volcanoes erupted and fully destroyed their bodies so nothing could come back. Or it could be something like the resurrection magic is tied to the 14 flames themselves and they can’t stray too far from them in general. Or that the resurrection spell used on drogo is “broken” because the 14 flames were also destroyed when they blew up so he couldn’t come back properly
You have knocked it out of the park again. My delight when I saw you have a new video! You have the mark of a true genius -- your theories and indeed the questions you ask -- they have such a simple, elegant appeal --- like it makes all the sense in the world that these questions are being asked. And from there you take us into more elaborate and delicate proofs. I can't believe I haven't seen this being discussed before! It was sitting right in front of our eyes! Only Beric and these slaves have ever been mentioned to pray for death!
Yeeeeeeeeeessssss!!!! Yeeeeeeeeees! Yeeeeeeeeeessss!!! Since I was watching Michael talks about stuff's channel a while ago this idea also came to my mind. He was talking about the Undead greensseers crucified to make the wall and I thought this, I said "well maybe there's also the Fire version of this...." And then BOOOOOOOM, the realization came to me!!! That's why the Faceless men went to Valyrian and destroy the magic of the 14 flames, cause they were Undead slaves and ALL MEN MUST DIE, and that's also why Jaqen H'gar was going to the Wall, to also destroy the magic sustaining the Wall: Undead greensseers cause ALL MEN MUST DIE, but then he got caught in the Wot5k and met Arya so he decided to send her to train and do the job. I swear to God that I love yours and Michael's stuff cause of all the great ASOIAF theorists only you and him IMO have nailed It. The rest of the theorists have a lot of great ideas but only you tie them all, only you could tie the arcs in Old Valyria, Meereen, Bravos and the Wall!!!! MINDBLOWING INDEED!!!!! Edit: When I said the Faceless men motto I was no refering to the idea that they are trying to kill everybody, I was refering to the idea that they were born from those slaves in the mines and they knew of all the valyrian creepy blood magic to sustain their power that's why they went back to destroy It and then realize that the Wall is probably the same: Undead people desiring to get a final release.
Yeah I agree they are against all those who corrupt the life and death cycle and heading to the wall knowing the others are returning makes alot of sense
I kind of wonder if that phrase doesn't have a deeper meaning? The white walkers destroy the world of men in ice. Magic seems to require blood sacrifice to work, more often than not. Maybe there is some sort of malevolent power in undeath that corrupts the natural order of things? A kind of anti-magic that perverts nature. Magic went on the decline after the GEOTD and The Long Night, after all.
My response disappeared, which is rude. I guess I had too many no-no words. Can't have that. I wonder if the phrase has a deeper meaning. Magic requires death or pieces of life in order to work, it seems like. The Others destroy the world of men in ice and undeath. Maybe there is something about undeath that perverts the natural order of things, diminishing the magic that exists in the world? Magic went on a strong decline after The Long Night and the Great Empire of the Dawn, after all. Maybe the natural human life cycle is what actually powers all magic, and immortality prevents it from working?
We see dragonglass used to ressurect the dead in the show. And well mines under volcanoes are probably FULL of obsidian. So it's even possible that they could have become undead by accident and the valyrians took advantage of it.
Whoa. This theory made my jaw drop. Both because it makes so much sense but also...the horror of unending slavery. I never did understand why the faceless men would have blown up thousands if not millions of innocent slaves...makes sense now. Also explains how they could maintain the sheer numbers of slaves....I doubt even Valyria in it's hey day could constantly capture enough slaves to off put the losses.
Absolutely brilliant work!! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 I love all your videos and theories! This is yet another theory video I believe is likely true within the actual ASOIAF lore. Your channel, as well as Michael Talks About Stuff, are among the few ASOIAF channels that I actively watch and firmly believe for the most part contain theories that will likely turn out to be true down the line in the books and possibly in spin-off material.
I've been a fan of A Song of Ice and Fire for years. I quickly got into the theory crafting that goes on in the fandom. I've spent countless hours reading and watching content analyzing the series. Few videos I watch these days suprise me. I like to listen while I work. This video made me stop what I was doing to just take in your theory. You were definitely cooking when you put this together. Mind blowing, to say the least.
I'm 10 seconds in and i already know this one will be a banger. Your videos have killer vibes. Sorry babe, can't talk, new Eldric Stoneskin video just dropped.
I started off SO SKEPTICAL of this channel, but Eldrick has done such a phenomenal job of explaining his theories, I now consider these theories a firm part of my head canon! 👏🏻 Well done Eldrick, you've absolutely sold me on your theories! 👌🏻
Woah, amazing video. It made the Faceless Men's motto suddenly meaningful (not just a cool catch phrase). And that's mainly why I think your theory is spot on: it helps make sense of a lot of stuff that was left in the dark from the source material. I really enjoyed your video, keep the great work!!! Also, I wonder if this conmection between Ice and Fire was shown during the show in the form of the Children of the Forest making thr Night's King with... Obsidian!
Wow such an amazing theory that recontextualizes so much. I think you're right on the money. As far as I know this is an original theory? I've certainly never heard it anywhere else and I cover a lot of theorists. Your best theory yet I think. Thank you for connecting some dots and solving several mysteries as Once. Cheers.
And this creates just such a beautiful symmetry that I really don't think it's coincidence. George specifically pointed out the presence of fire wights that contrast the ice wights. Again dude, congratulations, you blew my mind lol.
As far as I’m aware it is but I didn’t go looking tbh, I had the thought while I was researching for a livestream with Disputed Lands and it made a lot of sense so made the video, glad you liked it!
It interesting to note that Lord Tywin Lannister brother noted that when he visited the island of Dragon Stone, he could smell the foul sorcery used by the Targaryens to create it's castle and roads. He personally did not like going near it.
Super solid theory. We must figure out how Cold Hands fits into all this. Is he like the fire slave who first prayed for death? Also Micheal Talks About Stuff has a video where he interpreted Dany's visions in the House of the Undying as a plea from the ice wights to be released from their undeath.
@@eldric.stoneskin here goes a wild take, specially cooked up for you: The stories about undead watchmen frozen in the wall are true. Over the years, the Night's Watch has been dwindling and the builders have struggled to keep up with maintenance. One of the undead watchmen escaped. "A blue flower grew from a chink in the wall" The chink in the wall is where the watchman escaped; the blue rose is not referencing Lianna afterall... It is referencing the story of Bael the Bard. "They killed him long ago" Who is Coldhands? A) Bael himself, killed and punished by his Stark son for his various offenses against the North B) Bael's son, punished and accursed to undeath for kinslaying
@@eldric.stoneskin here goes a wild take, specially cooked up for you: The stories about undead watchmen frozen in the wall are true. Over the years, the Night's Watch has been dwindling and the builders have struggled to keep up with maintenance. One of the undead watchmen escaped. "A blue flower grew from a chink in the wall" The chink in the wall is where the watchman escaped; the blue rose is not referencing Lianna afterall... It is referencing the story of Bael the Bard. "They killed him long ago" Who is Coldhands? A) Bael himself, killed and punished by his Stark son for his various offenses against the North B) Bael's son, punished and accursed to undeath for kinslaying
@@eldric.stoneskin Here goes a wild take cooked up specially for you. The stories about undead watchmen frozen in the wall are true. Over the years, the Night’s Watch has been dwindling and the builders have struggled to keep up with maintenance. One of the undead watchmen escaped… “a blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice” The chink in the ice is where the watchman escaped; the blue rose is not referencing Lianna after all… it is referencing the story of Bael the Bard! “They killed him long ago” Who is Coldhands? A) Bael himself, killed and punished to undeath by his Stark son for his various offenses against the North B) Bael’s son, punished and accursed for kinslaying
@@eldric.stoneskin here goes a wild take, specially cooked up for you: The stories about undead watchmen frozen in the wall are true. Over the years, the Night's Watch has been dwindling and the builders have struggled to keep up with maintenance. One of the undead watchmen escaped... "A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice" The chink in the wall is where the watchman escaped; the blue rose is not referencing Lianna afterall... It is referencing the story of Bael the Bard! "They killed him long ago" Who is Coldhands? A) Bael himself, killed and punished by his Stark son for his various offenses against the North B) Bael's son, punished and accursed to undeath for kinslaying
This feels like a call back to the original myth of zombies, which originated in Haitian/Vodou Folklore not as the shambling monsters we know today, but as people who were forcibly resurrected and forced to obey whoever brought them back, a form of slavery not even death could release you from
@@eldric.stoneskin Just dawned on me...if the wighted slaves are given the gift of death. Would that make them "The Grateful Dead"? Seems kind of funny since George has said to be such a big fan.
Very good. I’m new to your channel, and I like this theory. It makes sense and backed up by txt and has symmetry with the others which is how GRRM writes, so I think your spot on. I look forward to watching more of your videos.
This is a great and horrifically convincing theory! Like you say, it explains how the slaves endured the conditions in the mines alongside many other things. Two other things occur to me as well: - The theory maybe also explains why the deadly fire wyrms living beneath the fourteen flames didn't simply devour the slaves who ventured deep into their lairs. It would be understandable for them to shun undead flesh. - One thing that's puzzled me about Valyria is actually how little they expanded during all those centuries, especially considering their apparent demand for slaves, and how no other power in the world could match them (even Yi Ti). They appear to have coexisted peacefully with Sarnor, the Summer Islands, even the Qartheen.. The existence of undead slaves would help explain this dynamic, i think, and how actually for much of their existence after the Ghiscari wars they weren't especially warlike as an oligarchic elite, preferring trade and luxury instead. They wouldn't require a constant flow of new slaves, or at least not in such numbers that they would have to be constantly expanding and subjugating new peoples. Sufficient numbers of living slaves could be obtained through trade networks, such as we see in the story of the founding of Braavos by runaway slaves from a slave ship. Even with the Rhoynar, the conflict was instigated by colonists from the peninsula who were not dragonlords or under their command, and the Freehold itself was clearly only reluctantly drawn into fighting on behalf of these colonists, once they felt threatened themself, and after like a few hundred years or so of warring along the Rhoyne. Thank you for the excellent video and theories!
What do you think of the idea that the Long Night and the story of Azor Ahai was misunderstood as history when it was actually an ancient prophecy predicting what is currently happening in the story?
Yeah I think George is playing on the time as a wheel and the cyclical nature of events with this, and I think George is definitely using the past to tell us about the future for sure
Morbid thought... Not all blood of the dragon are resistant to heat. Did the Valyrians enslave their own people who had heat resistant blood? Were families expected to offer up any heat resistant offspring? It would explain Dannys hatred of slavery. What if it was a Targaryen we have not met yet.... who doomed Valyria to end the horror? What if the house of Black and white is the last Valyrians.... slaves saved by an unknown Targaryen?
Holy moley, that would explain so many questions I had about Valeria. Bonus points if it's true the dragons are from slave blood magic and have some level of human-esq consciousness (as is implied from all the weird scaled babies the Targaryens have), as then they would also be freed from being bonded and forced to serve too.
Firewights. Or each and every one of those slaves had the Blood of the dragon. Which would play nicely into the theme of great horrible lies steering the course of history. They were kin to the dragonlords the whole damn time. They were just tricked into beleiving they were so inferior. "Power resides where men beleive it to."
Just wanted to let you know David Lightbringer was sniffing up your theory tree in his latest video at ca 20 min. He was speculating that Jon would find a dragon in the crypts.
If the Doom was an inside job made with Lannister money, carried out by the Faceless Men, and ordered by the Targaryens... it would make sense that Dany too is invested in ending slavery from Essos, and with a future of ending the bond of slavery from the Others. I wonder if that will also apply to the Dragons in the end, considering that they could have the "souls" of the people who sacrificed to create them (And the Dragons may be the ones to send the Targaryens their dragon dreams). Amd maybe why the Sword of Legends shatters, freeing the Soul(s) trapped in them. Also, Bloodmages/Bloostone Emperor creating their slaves..... GreyStone people with Grayscale with their life "extended" as a curse.... & The Undying used by the Warlocks... lots of slaves in the narrative for sure
Yeah I agree, I think the Targaryens probably wanted to end this magical slavery as well, hence why we don’t see the faceless men taking issue with them surviving the doom And yeah excellent point about the bloodstone emperor, he was said to dabbled in necromancy as well
@@eldric.stoneskin Yet the FM seem to be out to destroy the dragons in this timeline. Robert of IDG points out that all this resurrection is against their religion - and they blame magic, and for magic they blame dragons.
I love this theory but I just now noticed the most important part The famous saying from Braavos, the city where the escaped slaves live and the order of the faceless is established Valar Morghulis, Valar Dohaeris All men must die, all men must serve Exactly what they did, always die and always serve
@@eldric.stoneskin So you think the Wildlings fearing Craster and saying he has broken taboos have something to do with this theory as well? I mean I believe it is stated his mother was a woods witch as well and he calls the Others his Gods. Craster is the only human we know who interacts with the Others and they don't kill. I mean how did the relationship between them start? I don't think he randomly walked up to one and handed them a child. This has always bugged me
2 questions; When you can resurrect dead slaves, why would it be necessary to always enslave new people? Do the undead even feel pain? Looking at the ice wights I´m not so sure. And if so and being able to stand the heat, why would they still have a death wish? But nobody knows what´s going on in an undead´s mind ....
Maybe the bodies eventually wear out? Maybe the faceless men were giving the gift to too many slaves? Or maybe it’s just greed, more slaves, more wealth? And I think they had a death wish to be released from eternal servitude
@@eldric.stoneskin bodies wearing out seems not a problem. Ice wights even fight as skeletons. faceless men mass killing slaves would alarm Valyrians that someting is going on and turn their eyes on the faceless men.
This was supposed to be a Reply to the person asking about the need for multiple ressurections..but imma let it ride. I think that the quote talking about "the most wretched" of the slaves was the first to be given the gift implies that these slaves' bodies would degrade through accidents or injuries. Which suggests that not every injury resulted in death, but did increase the suffering of the slave. And accidents that did result in death may have increased due to the degradation of the body and its inability to function properly. Also, attempts to end thier own suffering probably were pretty common. That increases the need to resurrect. .Just a thought...
Very well said! The idea that the most wretched slave was the most degraded is amazing, that’s an excellent point, I’m picturing this slave almost like a Theon/Reek character, broken and begging for release
@@eldric.stoneskin I imagined the wight that Jon brought to kingslanding in the show. It's limb still moves after its detached. It is literally in pieces, still going after it's target. I know show and book are different but that was the image I git thinking of the most wretched. Barric Dondarion and lady Stoneheart carry debilitating physical injuries but keep on keeping on. The thought that all the wights are suffering souls adds gravity to the whole concept of the abomination of enslaving the dead
But what exactly were the mners mining? Only thing that seems plausible is obsidian. However other than glass candles and the occasional steel and armor, obsidian doesn't seem to be have been sold enough to sustain an entire nation. If you equate obsidian to oil in our own world, oil is used everywhere and used to make those companies who drill for it very rich. But oil is effectively everywhere in our world while in GRRM's world it only exists outside Valyria in less than about 200 items and is naturally occurring in many other places like Dragonstone. So again, exactly what was being mined and what purpose did it have to the empire?
Little question unless I missed it you did not go into how they delivered a true death the slaves could not get resurected from.. Do you propose they did it plain by going for the mages and indirectly killing the slaves with that?
I think they began by giving the gift to the slaves and then eventually giving it to everyone with the Doom, and I’m not sure exactly what the gift is but I suspect it might have something to do with the wearing of skin that we see the faceless men being able to do with blood magic, whether the faceless man takes in your skin and wears it so you can’t be revived again? I’m not sure tbh
I was pondering this too. GRRM gives us the dragon glass as a clear answer on how to kill walkers, and in the show it seems that cutting off the head or scattering the parts kills the ice weights. The faceless men use blood magic and the pool of poisoned water in the house of black and white to give thier gift. This is a fascinating line if thought!
There is the theory of sacrificed souls being inside the dragons, and the skin changer stuff. Reassigned souls seems to have its place here somewhere....
awesome video! just by yesterday, im wondering, "does the faceless men worship the others, seeing they brought forth death?". I have my answers now, they are not, and are willing to stand against the forever winter that brought forth Undead
Yeah it seems that way, the balance of black and white, and the desire to return the life and death cycle to normal tell me that theyd also be concerned with the cycle of summer and winter as well
Honestly, if the show implied this "the faceless men destoryed valeriya because they corrupted the cycle" I wouldnt have a problem with arya stopping the night king
Yeah it would have made a bit more sense
I mean, you would also have to have Arya believe in that doctrine, rather than simply run away and use the powers for herself/her revenge.
That's something the show didn't do at all, instead, having her escape while stabbed multiples times in the gut and after getting thrown in the dirty sewers, lol
@Baamthe25th OR OR OR the faceless men had a plan all along. Everything from talking to Jakhar in a cage, to joinging the faceless men, to rebelling, and finally killing the knight king. They knew, through some magicky gizmo that the only person they could reach who would be at the right place at the right time was arya. Maybe they were even responsible for some of the plot holes around dannys early story and stope her essense or whatever the spell is that transfers phophesy to another person. One faceless men special epilogue and you wrap the show in a bow.
Does it really make sense that there are only 2 faceless men? Does it really make sense that they let her learn all their secrets and run away? Its not a school, its a cult. Why didnt anyone come after her?
Funny how danny is also portraied as "the breaker of chains". maybe arya will have a big role against the ice king (George probably told that to the directors of the last season), but we will definetley have some more context involving arya, danny and the faceless men in the books.
@@bestblerd5042 In the books, perhaps
But DnD definitely destroyed that plotline
"Once they figure a way to work a dead horse, we'll be next. Likely I'll be the first too. 'Edd' they'll say, 'dying's no excuse for laying down no more, so get on up and take this spear, you've got the watch tonight.' Well, I shouldn't be so gloomy. Might be I'll die before they work it out." - Dolorous Edd. We had perfect illustration of the concept all along. I find it amazing that no one before has connected the slaves to the fire wights which were a thing discussed in fandom for at least a decade
Which means Catelyn and Jon are now slaves to the Rhllor for some higher purpose🤔
Yeah that’s a great quote! Adds to the nights watch being enslaved and requiring to be freed from bondage doesn’t it
@@nont18411 That’s a perfectly grim dark depiction of destiny and prophesy for Game of Thrones XD
@eldric.stoneskin original night watch were probably tha undead.
@@edwardmartin5860explains Coldhands. 😮
GRRM not releasing the last book for 13 years but giving us WoW and Fire and Blood In Between has given us an unexpected Rennaisance of great fan theories
You mean world of ice and fire right? WoW sounds hilariously like winds of winter and we all know that bridge never got crossed lol
@@spicypineapple2778 I thought he meant World of Warcraft and got confuzzled lmao
I think both books are gonna release the day he dies tbh.
i always questioned why they prayed and longed for death when it was clearly really easy to accomplish. this makes all the sense!
Yeah exactly, it’s the only way I can make sense of longing for death where death is so easily obtained
if true, this is such an intricate and incredibly intelligent use of language and expectations on GRRM’s part! for a lot of readers “longing for death” could seem like the slaves were unable to take their own lives, eg Unsullied only acting on commands from the masters, or perhaps the masters had leverage like their loved ones - some attribution to loyalty, love or conditioning that we are used to within GRRM’s universe. but if we consider the valyrian slaves = fire wights, it adds such a tragic and subversive layer to it, and also makes perfect sense thematically and narratively - all men must die, but the slaves stopped being Men ;v; Brilliant job with this video and these comments!
It’s dark af and I love it
Another thing I noticed in your video is that it says Khal Drogo after being resurrected and left in that "undead" state was folllowing the Sun with his eyes.... That's also the way all those greenseers found under the cave of Bloodraven seek and follow the torch that Hodor had in his hands.
They are waiting for Dany's fire to be released from their suffering...😢 That's also why the Undying were reaching for Drogon, they didn't want to steal him, they wanted to be released by fire.
Makes a lot of sense!
😮
In the books, The Others were described as quite etheral elf like beings (not as depicted on the show) Always suspected they were related to the Valyrians/Targaryens. Some sort of original sin, probably kinslaying and/or Blood Magic, caused the split of Fire & Ice dating back to The Great Empire of the Dawn & the Bloodstone Emperor. ( The show portrayed The Night King as a Dragon Rider. Could be a hint) It's fun to speculate...
Yeah they are both described as beautiful as well, there’s a connection there for sure
Wish we had the Twilight style vampire aesthetic for The Others. They’re not supposed to be non-vocal monsters as depicted on the show.
The Others could be descendants of the Amethyst Empress and the dragon-riding Valyrians of the Bloodstone Emperor. They both originated from the great empire of the dawn.
Their voices being described as sounding like ice cracking on a lake is cool as fuck. Shame it wasn't in the show.
Uh…we seen who the Night King was when the Children of the Forest turned him. He was a first man..they needed a weapon against them.
Slave Fire Wights. Melisandre! She said the Red Temple buys slaves, and that she was a slave. She is now a fire wight or something undead. The Red Temple continued (or originated?) the practise of firewighting slaves to keep them in service. Could this mean Rhllr is a valyrian god? Or a pre-valyrian GeoD god?
Holy shit yeah your right, that is weird hey, I’m gonna look into that, top teir comment mate 🍻
And she's 400 years old, that might match the timeline too. Great catch!
@@elizabethmead2852 Could that mean she is Valyrian? I’ve never heard the theory that’s she’s Valyrian. That would be interesting . However I do rather prefer the theory that she’s bloodravens daughter
@@umwha she is 400yrs old
@@just_me_myself_and_I_99 Where does it say that?
You know, I've wondered about the Slaves of Valyria. I couldn't make sense of it. This theory makes so much sense to me.
Thanks mate! 💀🍻
@@eldric.stoneskin No, thank you. I'm loving your videos. You get me to see things in new ways
I think this is a good and plausible theory. Valyria Incorporated was going for several thousand years, and it couldn't likely keep finding thousands of fresh bodies at the pace they were working their dangerous volcanic mines, at minimum the storied fourteen flames. With this theorized practice, they could continue to make use of bodies already breaking down and beyond repair until the successive resupply or generation of assigned or captured slave labor came into the picture.
Thinking it over, they could've used this practice of necromancy in regards to their lab experimentation, with human or other biological subjects that showed " promise ", replicating findings and methods, etc.
Yeah exactly right, well said
I really love this theory. It makes valyrians even bigger monsters and creates even bigger symbolical connection with the others. Good job! I hope that George expands on valyria in the future and either confirms it or denies it.
Speaking of undead, I have a theory you may like.
Green Guardians theory
Green men are one of the biggest mysteries in the entire asoiaf book series. They are kept deliberately obscure and are a centre stage of many of the theories. It's certain they will appear in future books and may be the key to stopping the others. While thinking about them after watching a theory video, I decided to try and find any possible remnants of that idea in elden ring.
I think I found them and it could show us who green men really are.
I believe that Guardians from elden ring were an idea from George and are a reflection of the idea of green men in elden ring.
Guardians are human warriors that protect minor erdtrees spread throught the lands between. Also branches burst from their bodies making them something between a human and a tree.
It is said that In accordance with an ancient pact with the Erdtree, it is said that their deaths lead not to destruction, but instead to renewed. eternal life as guardians.
We also know that green men are also guarding magical trees because of a pact between humans and children of the forest. What if they aren't just protecting them out of duty, but as a part of benefit of the pact. What if in exchange for keeping their watch, green men were given immortality?
Many people imagine green men the same way as green seers trapped in weirwoods. I believe that they are more like mobile magical tree warriors. In stories they even ride elks.
Description of guardian swordspear reads: Wielded by guardians of the Minor Erdtrees, known as experts in the arts of combat.
In the asoiaf story we hear about order of the greenhand that was foundet by house Gardener. Only best warriors could join the order, similar how only best warriors could become Guardians.
Was the order just a human copy of the true magical tree warriors?
Green men are already described as half plants with their leaves for hair. What if their antlers are in reality branches? The same way branches grow out of Guardians?
In the end I want to mention that elden ring isn't a dream of spring. George never wanted to secretly reveal the ending to his other series. George instead reuses his magical ideas in new ways. George also didn't wrote item descriptions or lore for most monsters, but he definitely wrote the big cosmology and important magic. He definitely wrote about minor erdtress existing and being protected by expert immortal tree warriors
Yeah I agree with all of this, and that’s what I think the pact was, making green men tree warriors somehow, and I think this might also play into the stone warrior idea as well, because if the Weirwoods never die but just turn to stone I wonder if the immortal tree people turn to stone as well just like their trees
@@eldric.stoneskin That is the thing about asoiaf, everything seems to be connected to each other. There is so much symbolism binding every character and magic in the entire story and so much different important inspiration to consider in theories. I even started considering if George was inspired by elfquest because he worked with and I think was friends with its creator. Elfs depicted are smaller than most post Tolkien and could have inspired children of the forest. Wolfriders are also very similar to Starks which could mean Starks literally have wolf ancestry. It also touches on basically the same themes as asoiaf. It is making me crazy and I haven't even finished first main story.
(I actually recommend it btw it's great mature comic and it is free on their website)
I have no idea how George will resolve all of it. It feels like we have couple of different broken puzzles that have many of the same pieces. I don't even believe that Daenerys has time to invade Westeros and play in politics. The moment she arrives ice zombies will be everywhere. The only thing we can do is to pray that George at least decides not to burn his notes after his death and hopefully delivers his dream of spring.
Genuinely wonderful to find a lore channel of any kind these days where the creator takes time to gather art and assets rather than putting prompts into an AI programme for it to shart out dreadful "art" for every transition. Well done for being an actual youtuber, and your voice is excellent for narration too. A grateful sub for you, mate.
Thanks! Yeah I’m very against AI art and will never use it in my videos
@@eldric.stoneskin I've been subbed since just after you finished your Greyscale Kings series. And, finding out your stance on AI in your videos makes me even more proud that I found your channel.
A creator I've been supporting for 3 years has the same opinion when it comes to his channel. The Red Book (Steven Gibb), a Tolkien analysis channel. When I watch your videos, I see the same depth of research & production value. Both of you are among the top channels IMO, and I feel lucky to have found you guys. Great work, Eldric!
@@Callisto_Arcas thanks mate!
Ned Stoneskin just came out of nowhere with the best ASoIaF videos for the last year. But still a criminally low subscriber count.
I bet if he did livestreams the channel would blow up. Seems like thats the only thing youtube wants to promote these days.
Thanks mate!
Am I mistaken and isn't this all just better visualised versions of Michael Talks About Stuff's theories. I haven't seen through the entire video so I'm not sure if he's been credited somewhere, but it seems like it's just all the same ones he's made.
@@adrianbaev5277 has Michael made a video about the Valyrian slaves being wights? Happy to give shoutouts but wasn’t aware tbh
@@eldric.stoneskin pretty sure he has not
Excellent. I love how the best ASOIAF theorists are still deepening our understanding the text after all these years. The best, like Eldrich, are getting closer and closer to establishing deep parallels between Ice and Fire. At this rate, you'll have cracked the end of ADOS long before GRRM gets there.
Haha thanks!
Undead, trapped in torment slaves in the hot volcanos - its hell. That would make the beautiful Valyrians the fallen angels, who run hell. That could make Asshai , or the GeoD Heavan. That would imply that the GeoD had a 'God', to whom there was a rebellion against. The people who rebelled fell out of the GeoD and created various civilisations, including Valyria.
GeoD?
And Daynes and Hightowers are basically Archangel Michael. They descend of the good/neutral factions of the GEotD and they are guardians.
The first Hightower was said to have killed the last Dragon in Battle Island and are trying to erase all the magic of the world cause they know what the Bloodstone Emperor and later the valyrians did.
We(and also the books characters) are all getting all the info and prophecies wrong.....
@@irisachternaamgreat empire of the dawn
Yes I like this idea, especially the Valyrians being Lucifarian, makes a lot of sense
@@eldric.stoneskin Although the Targaryens rebeling against the Valyrians also makes them Lucifer squared.
I think maybe part of the resurrection trade off is that they can only be a fully functional version of themselves in extreme and agonizing heat environments like a volcano “fueling” their new un-living life now. Thats why drogo was mindless and a husk because he wasn’t in any significant heat. And that’s also why revolting, suicide, and escaping may have not been an option once you were brought back and escape is only viable if you haven’t died yet. It’s like an invisible chain. Because when you try to leave you just lose your mind and will and they come scoop you up. And if you try to hold the mine they’ll just wait until you all starve to death, chain you up, bring you back and put you to work again. And they were only set free when the volcanoes erupted and fully destroyed their bodies so nothing could come back. Or it could be something like the resurrection magic is tied to the 14 flames themselves and they can’t stray too far from them in general. Or that the resurrection spell used on drogo is “broken” because the 14 flames were also destroyed when they blew up so he couldn’t come back properly
Yeah well said, the Fourteen Flames are described as being "the source of their power" so yeah makes a lot of sense
You have knocked it out of the park again. My delight when I saw you have a new video!
You have the mark of a true genius -- your theories and indeed the questions you ask -- they have such a simple, elegant appeal --- like it makes all the sense in the world that these questions are being asked.
And from there you take us into more elaborate and delicate proofs.
I can't believe I haven't seen this being discussed before! It was sitting right in front of our eyes! Only Beric and these slaves have ever been mentioned to pray for death!
Wow thanks for the comment! Glad you enjoyed it! Cheers!💀🍻
Yeeeeeeeeeessssss!!!! Yeeeeeeeeees! Yeeeeeeeeeessss!!!
Since I was watching Michael talks about stuff's channel a while ago this idea also came to my mind. He was talking about the Undead greensseers crucified to make the wall and I thought this, I said "well maybe there's also the Fire version of this...." And then BOOOOOOOM, the realization came to me!!! That's why the Faceless men went to Valyrian and destroy the magic of the 14 flames, cause they were Undead slaves and ALL MEN MUST DIE, and that's also why Jaqen H'gar was going to the Wall, to also destroy the magic sustaining the Wall: Undead greensseers cause ALL MEN MUST DIE, but then he got caught in the Wot5k and met Arya so he decided to send her to train and do the job.
I swear to God that I love yours and Michael's stuff cause of all the great ASOIAF theorists only you and him IMO have nailed It. The rest of the theorists have a lot of great ideas but only you tie them all, only you could tie the arcs in Old Valyria, Meereen, Bravos and the Wall!!!!
MINDBLOWING INDEED!!!!!
Edit: When I said the Faceless men motto I was no refering to the idea that they are trying to kill everybody, I was refering to the idea that they were born from those slaves in the mines and they knew of all the valyrian creepy blood magic to sustain their power that's why they went back to destroy It and then realize that the Wall is probably the same: Undead people desiring to get a final release.
Yeah I agree they are against all those who corrupt the life and death cycle and heading to the wall knowing the others are returning makes alot of sense
I kind of wonder if that phrase doesn't have a deeper meaning? The white walkers destroy the world of men in ice. Magic seems to require blood sacrifice to work, more often than not. Maybe there is some sort of malevolent power in undeath that corrupts the natural order of things? A kind of anti-magic that perverts nature.
Magic went on the decline after the GEOTD and The Long Night, after all.
My response disappeared, which is rude. I guess I had too many no-no words. Can't have that.
I wonder if the phrase has a deeper meaning. Magic requires death or pieces of life in order to work, it seems like. The Others destroy the world of men in ice and undeath. Maybe there is something about undeath that perverts the natural order of things, diminishing the magic that exists in the world? Magic went on a strong decline after The Long Night and the Great Empire of the Dawn, after all.
Maybe the natural human life cycle is what actually powers all magic, and immortality prevents it from working?
My black blood raining from the sky part is what got me. Damn. Amazing work.
Thanks!
EPIC implications for endgame with the ice wights!! Great vid!
Glad you liked it!
Im here from the Doom of Valyria livesteam. I was so excited about this video.
Subscribed
Ah thanks! Yeah that was a productive livestream, thanks for watching!
We see dragonglass used to ressurect the dead in the show. And well mines under volcanoes are probably FULL of obsidian. So it's even possible that they could have become undead by accident and the valyrians took advantage of it.
Yeah could well be
Finally! Someone brings up the idea of fire wights. Such a simple yet brilliant theory.
Cheers!
Whoa. This theory made my jaw drop. Both because it makes so much sense but also...the horror of unending slavery.
I never did understand why the faceless men would have blown up thousands if not millions of innocent slaves...makes sense now. Also explains how they could maintain the sheer numbers of slaves....I doubt even Valyria in it's hey day could constantly capture enough slaves to off put the losses.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Absolutely brilliant work!! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 I love all your videos and theories! This is yet another theory video I believe is likely true within the actual ASOIAF lore. Your channel, as well as Michael Talks About Stuff, are among the few ASOIAF channels that I actively watch and firmly believe for the most part contain theories that will likely turn out to be true down the line in the books and possibly in spin-off material.
Thank you! Appreciate the comments! 💀🍻
This could play into Arya killing the Night King as well
I've been a fan of A Song of Ice and Fire for years. I quickly got into the theory crafting that goes on in the fandom. I've spent countless hours reading and watching content analyzing the series. Few videos I watch these days suprise me. I like to listen while I work. This video made me stop what I was doing to just take in your theory. You were definitely cooking when you put this together. Mind blowing, to say the least.
Thankyou! Glad you enjoyed it!
I'm 10 seconds in and i already know this one will be a banger. Your videos have killer vibes. Sorry babe, can't talk, new Eldric Stoneskin video just dropped.
Thanks! Glad your enjoying the channel!
Ser Stoneskin - you have done it again, my friend. I think your theories and dissertations are the best online. Keep making videos. We love them!
Thanks, will do! 💀🍻
I started off SO SKEPTICAL of this channel, but Eldrick has done such a phenomenal job of explaining his theories, I now consider these theories a firm part of my head canon! 👏🏻
Well done Eldrick, you've absolutely sold me on your theories! 👌🏻
Thanks!
Woah, amazing video. It made the Faceless Men's motto suddenly meaningful (not just a cool catch phrase). And that's mainly why I think your theory is spot on: it helps make sense of a lot of stuff that was left in the dark from the source material. I really enjoyed your video, keep the great work!!!
Also, I wonder if this conmection between Ice and Fire was shown during the show in the form of the Children of the Forest making thr Night's King with... Obsidian!
Glad you liked it!
I thought they just chucked their fire proof bastards into the mines, but this is way more fun!
🤣
Wow such an amazing theory that recontextualizes so much. I think you're right on the money. As far as I know this is an original theory? I've certainly never heard it anywhere else and I cover a lot of theorists. Your best theory yet I think. Thank you for connecting some dots and solving several mysteries as Once. Cheers.
And this creates just such a beautiful symmetry that I really don't think it's coincidence. George specifically pointed out the presence of fire wights that contrast the ice wights. Again dude, congratulations, you blew my mind lol.
As far as I’m aware it is but I didn’t go looking tbh, I had the thought while I was researching for a livestream with Disputed Lands and it made a lot of sense so made the video, glad you liked it!
Love this video my man keep up the amazing work
Thanks mate! Really appreciate the support 💀🍻
It interesting to note that Lord Tywin Lannister brother noted that when he visited the island of Dragon Stone, he could smell the foul sorcery used by the Targaryens to create it's castle and roads. He personally did not like going near it.
Bravo! Just realized I wasnt subbed (which I remedied) so Im glad I saw your post on Twitter great vid Eldric!
Thanks Amanda! And thanks for retweeting the video too, really appreciate the support!
Dude, another banger theory video. Keep the vids coming!
Thanks mate, will do 💀🍻
😮oh wow!
What an excellent theory!!!So compelling!!!
Thanks!
What? How can this awesome channel have only 3,5k subs? So glad the algorithm recommended me this channel!
Me too! Glad you enjoyed it!
Puts a new spin on 'Valar Morghulis' It isnt a sad reminder, it's an admonition
A very very compelling theory! Subscribed! :D
Awesome, thank you!
That was excellent! A comment for the algorithm gods ser
Amazing take on a mysterious cataclysm and cult. I feel like Grrm himself would be happy with this as evidence for the doom of valyria!
Super solid theory. We must figure out how Cold Hands fits into all this. Is he like the fire slave who first prayed for death?
Also Micheal Talks About Stuff has a video where he interpreted Dany's visions in the House of the Undying as a plea from the ice wights to be released from their undeath.
Cheers! Yeah coldhands is interesting hey, not sure how it plays into it tho at this stage
@@eldric.stoneskin here goes a wild take, specially cooked up for you:
The stories about undead watchmen frozen in the wall are true. Over the years, the Night's Watch has been dwindling and the builders have struggled to keep up with maintenance.
One of the undead watchmen escaped.
"A blue flower grew from a chink in the wall"
The chink in the wall is where the watchman escaped; the blue rose is not referencing Lianna afterall... It is referencing the story of Bael the Bard.
"They killed him long ago"
Who is Coldhands?
A) Bael himself, killed and punished by his Stark son for his various offenses against the North
B) Bael's son, punished and accursed to undeath for kinslaying
@@eldric.stoneskin here goes a wild take, specially cooked up for you:
The stories about undead watchmen frozen in the wall are true. Over the years, the Night's Watch has been dwindling and the builders have struggled to keep up with maintenance.
One of the undead watchmen escaped.
"A blue flower grew from a chink in the wall"
The chink in the wall is where the watchman escaped; the blue rose is not referencing Lianna afterall... It is referencing the story of Bael the Bard.
"They killed him long ago"
Who is Coldhands?
A) Bael himself, killed and punished by his Stark son for his various offenses against the North
B) Bael's son, punished and accursed to undeath for kinslaying
@@eldric.stoneskin Here goes a wild take cooked up specially for you.
The stories about undead watchmen frozen in the wall are true. Over the years, the Night’s Watch has been dwindling and the builders have struggled to keep up with maintenance.
One of the undead watchmen escaped…
“a blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice”
The chink in the ice is where the watchman escaped; the blue rose is not referencing Lianna after all… it is referencing the story of Bael the Bard!
“They killed him long ago”
Who is Coldhands?
A) Bael himself, killed and punished to undeath by his Stark son for his various offenses against the North
B) Bael’s son, punished and accursed for kinslaying
@@eldric.stoneskin here goes a wild take, specially cooked up for you:
The stories about undead watchmen frozen in the wall are true. Over the years, the Night's Watch has been dwindling and the builders have struggled to keep up with maintenance.
One of the undead watchmen escaped...
"A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice"
The chink in the wall is where the watchman escaped; the blue rose is not referencing Lianna afterall... It is referencing the story of Bael the Bard!
"They killed him long ago"
Who is Coldhands?
A) Bael himself, killed and punished by his Stark son for his various offenses against the North
B) Bael's son, punished and accursed to undeath for kinslaying
Excellent. This puts the story in its proper context.
This is such a terrifying idea, notbsure if I believe it, but hell I love it!!!
It is such a great idea, thqnks for sharing ❤
No worries!
Let me say one thing: Valyria is one of the biggest evils in ASOIAF. Fucking unhuman Empire of slavery and destruction. I am so glad it was destroyed.
This feels like a call back to the original myth of zombies, which originated in Haitian/Vodou Folklore not as the shambling monsters we know today, but as people who were forcibly resurrected and forced to obey whoever brought them back, a form of slavery not even death could release you from
That’s interesting, I’ll have to look into that, great comment
Wow, I'm left speechless. This is so good...
Awesome content.
Thanks!
@@eldric.stoneskin Just dawned on me...if the wighted slaves are given the gift of death. Would that make them "The Grateful Dead"?
Seems kind of funny since George has said to be such a big fan.
@ncorva haha love it! Yeah that makes a lot of sense, great call
Very good. I’m new to your channel, and I like this theory. It makes sense and backed up by txt and has symmetry with the others which is how GRRM writes, so I think your spot on. I look forward to watching more of your videos.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great content, and really well structured!!
Thank you!
Okay, that was some impressive connecting of dots. Very interesting, and compelling!
Thanks!
Waking up to see theres a new video i missed while busy yesterday is so so good. Solid breakfast entertainment. You never let me down.
Thanks!
great vid man, had never thought of this before
Cheers! 💀🍻
I wonder if Greyscale is a byproduct of Valyrian magical experiments as well, or from whatever process might have created Fire Wights.
Yeah could well be
This is a great and horrifically convincing theory! Like you say, it explains how the slaves endured the conditions in the mines alongside many other things.
Two other things occur to me as well:
- The theory maybe also explains why the deadly fire wyrms living beneath the fourteen flames didn't simply devour the slaves who ventured deep into their lairs. It would be understandable for them to shun undead flesh.
- One thing that's puzzled me about Valyria is actually how little they expanded during all those centuries, especially considering their apparent demand for slaves, and how no other power in the world could match them (even Yi Ti). They appear to have coexisted peacefully with Sarnor, the Summer Islands, even the Qartheen.. The existence of undead slaves would help explain this dynamic, i think, and how actually for much of their existence after the Ghiscari wars they weren't especially warlike as an oligarchic elite, preferring trade and luxury instead. They wouldn't require a constant flow of new slaves, or at least not in such numbers that they would have to be constantly expanding and subjugating new peoples. Sufficient numbers of living slaves could be obtained through trade networks, such as we see in the story of the founding of Braavos by runaway slaves from a slave ship. Even with the Rhoynar, the conflict was instigated by colonists from the peninsula who were not dragonlords or under their command, and the Freehold itself was clearly only reluctantly drawn into fighting on behalf of these colonists, once they felt threatened themself, and after like a few hundred years or so of warring along the Rhoyne.
Thank you for the excellent video and theories!
No worries! Thanks for watching!
I love this theory so much
Nice one
Thanks!
gah dammit you did it again. Serious props man
Cheers! 💀🍻
What do you think of the idea that the Long Night and the story of Azor Ahai was misunderstood as history when it was actually an ancient prophecy predicting what is currently happening in the story?
Yeah I think George is playing on the time as a wheel and the cyclical nature of events with this, and I think George is definitely using the past to tell us about the future for sure
Good job Eldric! Great video 😊
Thank you! 💀🍻
New subscriber! Came here after the live with LML 🎉
Thanks for checking the channel out!
Very compelling theory. Well done! ❤
Thanks!
Great analysis as ever.
Cheers! 💀🍻
another great video
Cheers!💀🍻
Couldn't they fling themselves into the magma? I'd imagine it's much harder to resurrect molten slurry...
Yeah that would work I guess haha
That's just a blood sacrifice to the 14 flames, and the Valyrian still win 😢😂
Morbid thought... Not all blood of the dragon are resistant to heat. Did the Valyrians enslave their own people who had heat resistant blood? Were families expected to offer up any heat resistant offspring? It would explain Dannys hatred of slavery. What if it was a Targaryen we have not met yet.... who doomed Valyria to end the horror? What if the house of Black and white is the last Valyrians.... slaves saved by an unknown Targaryen?
Holy moley, that would explain so many questions I had about Valeria. Bonus points if it's true the dragons are from slave blood magic and have some level of human-esq consciousness (as is implied from all the weird scaled babies the Targaryens have), as then they would also be freed from being bonded and forced to serve too.
Yeah because the bloodmages have something to do with birthing dragons I think the bloodmagic does tie in somehow
Bro brings the insight
Cheers! 💀🍻
That is such a good connection you mentioned between all men must die and fire necromancy
Thanks!
Firewights. Or each and every one of those slaves had the Blood of the dragon. Which would play nicely into the theme of great horrible lies steering the course of history. They were kin to the dragonlords the whole damn time. They were just tricked into beleiving they were so inferior.
"Power resides where men beleive it to."
The first faceless man was a Varlarian who was sick of the tyranny of his own people were enacting on the rest of essos.
Loved it!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Awww yeee this has been a great year for asoiaf theorizing
I think it’s part of it,theory with parallels is pretty solid. 💯
Holy crap this absolutely blew my mind 🤯
Just wanted to let you know David Lightbringer was sniffing up your theory tree in his latest video at ca 20 min. He was speculating that Jon would find a dragon in the crypts.
Ahhh nice, I’ll have to check it out
If the Doom was an inside job made with Lannister money, carried out by the Faceless Men, and ordered by the Targaryens... it would make sense that Dany too is invested in ending slavery from Essos, and with a future of ending the bond of slavery from the Others. I wonder if that will also apply to the Dragons in the end, considering that they could have the "souls" of the people who sacrificed to create them (And the Dragons may be the ones to send the Targaryens their dragon dreams). Amd maybe why the Sword of Legends shatters, freeing the Soul(s) trapped in them.
Also, Bloodmages/Bloostone Emperor creating their slaves..... GreyStone people with Grayscale with their life "extended" as a curse.... & The Undying used by the Warlocks... lots of slaves in the narrative for sure
The scene of Daenerys and Drogon burning the Undying was a total premonition of the Endgame of this story....
Yeah I agree, I think the Targaryens probably wanted to end this magical slavery as well, hence why we don’t see the faceless men taking issue with them surviving the doom
And yeah excellent point about the bloodstone emperor, he was said to dabbled in necromancy as well
@@eldric.stoneskin Yet the FM seem to be out to destroy the dragons in this timeline. Robert of IDG points out that all this resurrection is against their religion - and they blame magic, and for magic they blame dragons.
Great theory 👏👏👏
I fully subscribe to it now
Thanks and welcome!
This is a good one. Very fun!
Thanks!
I love this theory but I just now noticed the most important part
The famous saying from Braavos, the city where the escaped slaves live and the order of the faceless is established
Valar Morghulis, Valar Dohaeris
All men must die, all men must serve
Exactly what they did, always die and always serve
The wildlings also say that Craster and his children have black blood. So there's another connection between Others and Valyrians
Yeah good call
@@eldric.stoneskin So you think the Wildlings fearing Craster and saying he has broken taboos have something to do with this theory as well? I mean I believe it is stated his mother was a woods witch as well and he calls the Others his Gods. Craster is the only human we know who interacts with the Others and they don't kill. I mean how did the relationship between them start? I don't think he randomly walked up to one and handed them a child. This has always bugged me
2 questions; When you can resurrect dead slaves, why would it be necessary to always enslave new people? Do the undead even feel pain? Looking at the ice wights I´m not so sure. And if so and being able to stand the heat, why would they still have a death wish? But nobody knows what´s going on in an undead´s mind ....
Maybe the bodies eventually wear out? Maybe the faceless men were giving the gift to too many slaves? Or maybe it’s just greed, more slaves, more wealth?
And I think they had a death wish to be released from eternal servitude
@@eldric.stoneskin greed seems plausible. economies must always expand, stagnation is loss.
@@eldric.stoneskin bodies wearing out seems not a problem. Ice wights even fight as skeletons. faceless men mass killing slaves would alarm Valyrians that someting is going on and turn their eyes on the faceless men.
Why Drogo's resurection was botched?
Maybe because Mirri wanted to get back at Dany?
Must be exciting to create a series of valyria❤❤
Wow awesome theory man, cheers from Serbia
Cheers! 💀🍻
This was supposed to be a Reply to the person asking about the need for multiple ressurections..but imma let it ride.
I think that the quote talking about "the most wretched" of the slaves was the first to be given the gift implies that these slaves' bodies would degrade through accidents or injuries. Which suggests that not every injury resulted in death, but did increase the suffering of the slave. And accidents that did result in death may have increased due to the degradation of the body and its inability to function properly. Also, attempts to end thier own suffering probably were pretty common. That increases the need to resurrect.
.Just a thought...
Very well said! The idea that the most wretched slave was the most degraded is amazing, that’s an excellent point, I’m picturing this slave almost like a Theon/Reek character, broken and begging for release
@@eldric.stoneskin I imagined the wight that Jon brought to kingslanding in the show. It's limb still moves after its detached. It is literally in pieces, still going after it's target. I know show and book are different but that was the image I git thinking of the most wretched. Barric Dondarion and lady Stoneheart carry debilitating physical injuries but keep on keeping on. The thought that all the wights are suffering souls adds gravity to the whole concept of the abomination of enslaving the dead
Good stuff mate
Cheers! 💀🍻
an impressive theory. Well-done.
Thanks!
@@eldric.stoneskin you're welcome. :)
Amazing insights. Never thought about these
Thanks!
Great theory 😊👍🏻👍🏻
Cheers! 💀🍻
But what exactly were the mners mining? Only thing that seems plausible is obsidian.
However other than glass candles and the occasional steel and armor, obsidian doesn't seem to be have been sold enough to sustain an entire nation. If you equate obsidian to oil in our own world, oil is used everywhere and used to make those companies who drill for it very rich. But oil is effectively everywhere in our world while in GRRM's world it only exists outside Valyria in less than about 200 items and is naturally occurring in many other places like Dragonstone.
So again, exactly what was being mined and what purpose did it have to the empire?
I think it was Obsidian as you’ve said, for their glass candles ect
Gold silver, copper, gems, the usual.
I love this!
Cheers!💀🍻
And all this is why the seasons are f'ed up. Love it great vid mate🔥
Yeah I agree, life and death, summer and winter, both are stuck in stasis and need to be released to return to normality
Little question unless I missed it you did not go into how they delivered a true death the slaves could not get resurected from..
Do you propose they did it plain by going for the mages and indirectly killing the slaves with that?
I think they began by giving the gift to the slaves and then eventually giving it to everyone with the Doom, and I’m not sure exactly what the gift is but I suspect it might have something to do with the wearing of skin that we see the faceless men being able to do with blood magic, whether the faceless man takes in your skin and wears it so you can’t be revived again? I’m not sure tbh
@@eldric.stoneskin Look at Ice Wights. Destory the body and bones and they cant be resurected. That seems simple enough.
I was pondering this too. GRRM gives us the dragon glass as a clear answer on how to kill walkers, and in the show it seems that cutting off the head or scattering the parts kills the ice weights. The faceless men use blood magic and the pool of poisoned water in the house of black and white to give thier gift. This is a fascinating line if thought!
There is the theory of sacrificed souls being inside the dragons, and the skin changer stuff. Reassigned souls seems to have its place here somewhere....
@@angela777K yes! I’m leaning this way as well, I think this ties into the faceless man’s ability to swap skins for sure
Thank you for this u genius ❤️
You’re welcome 💀🍻
awesome video! just by yesterday, im wondering, "does the faceless men worship the others, seeing they brought forth death?". I have my answers now, they are not, and are willing to stand against the forever winter that brought forth Undead
Yeah it seems that way, the balance of black and white, and the desire to return the life and death cycle to normal tell me that theyd also be concerned with the cycle of summer and winter as well
Love this
Thanks!
Great theory
would like to know how Arya reacts to the stone kings... faceless man or stark
Cool theory. These books are a lot darker than first glance would suggest.
Thanks, yeah they really are
This livestream gave us Valyria-related ideas only😂
Yeah it was a pretty productive livestream haha