Traditional archery tips - Split finger vs 3 under for recurve and longbow
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- in this weeks Field Tip video, Clay Hayes goes over the difference in the split finger style of shooting and the 3 under method as well as how to pick a solid anchor point and how that anchor point can influence your point on distance and where the arrow strikes the target.
Clay has several longbow and recurve bow shooting tips videos on the channel but this is the first time focusing on the split vs three under styles. Split finger has been popular in north america for some time but 3 under is gaining popularity, especially with target archers. Clay shot 3 under for years before making the switch to 3 under. By moving to a three under string hand position, the arrow's nock is moved closer to the eye. This changes the launch angle of the arrow and moves the point on distance closer to the archer. It also makes for more managable gaps under bow hunting distances. In short, it makes aiming a recurve or longbow easier!
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The only problem I can see with using a tooth as an anchor point is
Being from Kentucky, that tooth might not be there next month
Damn U got the whole squad laughing
Jon Patterson That is just brilliant..ha ha
OMG that was f...king funny!! I had a really good laugh, thanks!!
😂😂😂😂😂
😂😂😂
Darnit, just when I get my anchor point worked out, you go and give me other options! On the other hand, archery seems like it takes a lifetime of tweaking - which is part of the fun. Thanks for the informative videos - they help out a lot.
Watched this hour ago. Three under shooter. Slipped out back yard adjusted anchor. Perfect. I pre aim and was having trouble after anchoring being a little to high on target. Now never leave target. Been shooting recurve since 97. Thank You for helping an old stubborn guy out.
I tried using my thumb knuckle behind recess of jaw like you described to bring the arrow closer to my eye and I was hitting the arrows in the target that I just shot. Wow! the grouping was almost too good that I was afraid I was going to hit the arrows and had to break through that mentally. Great videos man!!! I hope one day I can get to a level where I can challenge you on the 3D course. Thanks Clay!
Using the same anchor point i broke my arrow first time shooting 😂
70 years old anchor drove me nuts. Same issues. Thank you sir! Always ready to learn.
Great video Clay! I agree consistent aiming is the key to accuracy, and with a properly tuned set up you dont need to rely on pure power. I shot instinctive for years until I watched The Push's video on his fixed crawl and 3 point anchor. Granted, after 10,000 shots and years later I got fairly accurate, but I'm glad more primitive and traditional archers are speaking the benefits of proper technique instead of learning the "throw a baseball" method, hopefully new sportsmen will see these videos when they first start shooting.
To be fair also, instinctive IMO works better on my shorter bows where the draw length is only like 16 or 17 inches. If you look at like the comanches or Cherokee people, they had super short bows, all shot instinctive, and were more lethal than that most muzzleloaders. But I'm sure you know that, just mentioning it for anybody reading who might not.
@@AlaskanCarpenterEagle I haven't hunted either with a short or long bow, but I mean, they got the job done for millenia for the native americans lol. I'm also not sure of the "why" behind it, if you get what I mean
I've shot split finger for 40 years, now I'm going to experiment with the 3 under, thanks much, great video
You sir were the most impressive winner in alone show. A real survivor!. Not someone hibernating to an inevitable death. Your archery lessons are the most helpful thank you for sharing your knowledge
Thanks Tony
Agree!
I have been shooting split finger for 35 years just changed to 3 under shooting better than ever thanks for the info much appreciated
Thanks for the great info! I switched to 3 under with a high anchor point and have had a big improvement in my groupings at 20 to 30yds. Also wanted to thank you for a pragmatic and unapologetic approach to gap shooting in the field. I think many "instinctive" archers reach full draw and anchor close to "on target" by muscle memory yet still give a quick almost unconscious glance at the arrow tip before release. That is of course: "gap shooting". I tried to be an instinctive purist for years and was frustrated. I felt "I just didn't have it". Videos like yours help validate a different shooting style and I'm sure will help a lot of newcomers stick with archery. Great job and keep the videos coming.
Thanks Joel
I have been a split finger shooter for 49 years and my group's out to 50 yards have been 5 " s
and I had to set the bow down for work related reasons now for 4.5 years, without touching a bow at all.
I have picked up the bow again 4 month's ago and tried the 3 under method and without a doubt my groups have tightened up unbelievable. I must say it is like bringing archery shooting back to alot of fun again.I would Encourage folks to try it and again I also anchor using my first finger on my high point of my cheek bone. Great video Clay.on split or 3 fingers under. it made a huge difference for me.
Thank you. This was the best video I have seen yet. I’ve been shooting for fun since I was 15 years old but just started an archery league and I’m getting Pretty darn good. Shooting for fun right now but hunting is on the table. I’m shooting an average 8 at 8m right now with a 12 inch gap. Moving to 13 meetings for the next league. Your teachings will help me kick ass so thank you
I found this video at the perfect time. I've been struggling with a huge gap and didn't think to raise my anchor point on my face. Thanks Clay!
Just started using a recurve bow and from your videos I’ve watched it’s helped me out drastically!
Brilliant video Clay... People who criticize need to open there eyes and minds. There is no “Correct” way of shooting. What ever you need to get a constant shot and or where ever you anchor point is it’s doesn’t matter. As long as you are getting consent accurate shots, what ever works for you as an individual.
I’ve seen women in the Medievil archery circuit who anchor way past their ear to maximize draw length and they are hitting targets from 10 to 40 yards...
Love the tips Clay. I agree I Shot split finger for over 30 years then switched to three under. It really stepped up my shooting.
Wingman! Flinging those arrows down range...
Love your videos!
Barry Hestand 👍🏻👊🏻
Anchor point. Here I go again. 69 years old been looking to settle on one for 59 years. Thanks for the tip and also confirming much of my self taught conclusions.
Had my first lesson today, I was told to do 3 under and wondered why most professionals used one finger above, thank you for the explaination
Good vid Clay. I too use the high cheek anchor with 3 under. My gap with light 3d arrows is 12” at 20m and 0-1/2” at 30m. Using this anchor has really brought confidence to my shooting at hunting distances. Keep it up and I highly recommend anyone to attend one of your bow building courses.
Great stuff right here , I watched this last night and couldn't wait to try it today I have only been shooting Trad for 3 or 4 weeks and was anchoring corner of my mouth not very successfully both other methods were better than what I was doing . I believe thumb knuckle behind my jaw bone worked best I could really tell my bow was shooting better than before . Thanks for all the help !
Thanks for this information. Novice hunter and even more novice bow shooter. This helps tremendously.
In my opinion this guy is the very best at explaining how it should be done. I'm in UK and shoot Welsh long bow, who I think invented the true longbow. We can only shoot 3D over here. But we have great times. Our laws out here are about as much use as a handbrake on a canoe when it comes to hunting. Anyway thanks alot Clay. First class theory. PS. It all works.
Thanks 🙏
This clip was right on que with what I’m going through…thanks so much Clay!
I went through the same series of anchor points and found the cheek bone best in regards to accuracy.
Cheers Clay.
I like the way you explained how anchors affect gap.
I've been struggling with this. I've recently started experimenting with what I guess some would call a fixed crawl.
Basically three waaaay under. But doing this when I anchor to the corner of my mouth puts the nock nearly in my eye and I can place the arrow tip just under my desired point of impact at 15ish yards.
After watching your videos, I went from split fingers to 3 under and up to 20 yards it works like a charm, beyond that I can't see the target anymore, as my bow hand starts blocking the view. From now on it's 3 under for hunting and split fingers for target shooting past 20 yards. Thanks for the tip.
Another absolutely superb video. Thank you for sharing your expertise and wisdom with all hunters. Inspiring and much needed lessons in not only archery, hunting and craftsmanship, but being a good honest man, seeking excellence, being grateful, honoring the past and being responsible and humane. A+ Clay.
I started watching you before I watched your win on alone. Excellent work
Thank you, I felt quite stupid by putting my anker behind the jaw bone just like you... now I feel better, but since it was as you said a dramatic launch angle, I now put the same knuckle into my ear and shut it completely, than I pull and when I can hear again it is like a clicker... works nicely now :) Thanks for the videos. Awesome help.
EXACTLY the same issues I've had for years when gap shooting. I also shoot 3 under & I struggle with "looking" below the animal at close range. My point-on is 25 yards with my current setup & I shoot pretty decent at that range. But I'm hoping I can shorten up my point-on distance with some heavier arrows & playing around with my anchor point, like you did. Great video Clay! Thanks for the tips!
Hi Clay,this Video was Informativ and helps me to find a better Form to shoot Arrows.I am just a Beginner ...and Love your Videos.I began to use this Ankerpoint for 2 Month ..I shoot 3 Under and Lefthanded.And i can say the shorter Distance to the Eye its the Case!! I shoot way much better ,than before. Thank you and God bless
Wow, 3 under is a game changer especially at shorter distances; wish I'd have started out that way long ago. So much more natural aiming to me, shorter gap much better alignment etc etc
Yet another great vid. Thanks for sharing from your heart. I really appreciate that you're always learning, experimenting and sharing with the RUclips world. When others (ie. in the comments) talk smack then talk about themselves (boring), you always are helping others. Big difference in class.
Thanks Chris
Great video. I am really glad you mentioned the thumb locked under the ear and behind your jaw, because that is how I learned to shoot. I haven't shot a bow in several years, but am getting back into it. Your videos are some of the most helpful I've found. Thank you.
Thanks Bill
Btw, how would you make a board bow like this, but around 30 lbs?
Just keep removing wood from the belly until you get to your weight.
@@clayhayeshunter Thank you. I will give it a try as soon as I find a decent board.
I've always been a corner of the mouth anchor. I tried the thumb knuckle to the back of the jaw bone anchor for a while and ended up switching back. But i watched this video last night and tried out the cheek bone anchor this evening. I think it may be a game changer for me! Thanks for sharing!
Not new to archery but new to shooting without sights, 3 fingers under seems the best way to shoot, thanks for sharing your knowledge, going to move to 3 under with my Hoyt Satori.
I think you’ll like it
@@clayhayeshunter without trying it just seems a more natural way to aim, looking forward to getting back to my club again.
Very helpful, I have a big gap as well and I’m trying to work it out to get a comfortable hunting anchor.
Man thank you for the advice i will give this a go. It looks like a smart way to shoot . Going from compound to traditional is a big move up in tweaking but that is what makes it so much more special to learn. Thanks again and keep giving us these great videos your the best
No problem
Thanks for the informative video, split finger shooter here, have been since I started shooting. I've made some attempts at three under, wasn't pretty so I went back to what worked. Archery: easy to learn, a lifetime to master.
Great video. I'm trying to teach my daughters to shoot an old recurve with no sights and this helps me explain to them! Im a compound bow shooter so it's a little difficult to explain to an 11 year old lol. Btw my anchor has always been my pointer finger knuckle behind my ear so it's good to hear someone have something similar bc nobody taught me to shoot, I just picked up a bow and went for it.
Nah that deer "jumped the string" when your clicker sounded Lol
Thanks, I'm going to try out the cheekbone anchor point!
This is some good info. I have learned a bunch watching these videos. Thank you for making them. I am new at this and I really suck.
Everyone sucks in the beginning 😂! Stick with it.
So I’m a rifle and pistol shooter, just getting into traditional bow. Only experience I have is from decades ago in high-school. When I went to a bow maker to try a bow, it took a couple minutes to realize that 3 under puts the arrow much closer to the eye. Putting the anchor point will make it even better.
I don’t know enough to comment strongly, but I think shooters will find this super helpful. Don’t need to follow what we see from purists, just shoot what works, and that is what it’s all about.
Sounds like face walking plug gap... a blend, which according to the PUSH Archery movie/film, is the best and most efficient way to aim. PUSH talks about setting your anchor point a little lower than the nock points to decrease gap at different distances, but face walking like Clay is showing here, works just the same, and is MUCH better in my opinion for hunting on the fly.
Awesome video! Some really valuable information. Thanks.
Hello Clay, I've been shooting for about twelve months and recently made a clicker and used the three under as you recommend, this is giving me consistent groups, one thing i have noticed is if you get a group that is split in two its because you are losing good back tension during the shooting of that group. Great videos mate.,
Interesting 🤔 I went to 3 under and my thumb knuckle in my ear. Puts the arrow right under my eye. Sounds like I’m on the right track. Your exactly right, we are all built a bit different and must find what works best for us. I appreciate your Channel , it has helped me sharpen my skills. It would be an honor to shoot the course with ya. 👍👍
Thanks
Thank you for this video! I’ll be trying this method out tonight
Hung my compound up almost 3 months ago and focusing on traditional. Hoping to get my first deer with a recurve. Been shooting split with middle finger to the corner of my mouth and thumb knuckle on cheek bone. Been getting more consistent and accurate groups at 20 yards. But I still have an arrow or 2 fly away from the group. Been talking to a lot of guys from my local club and they recommend 3 under. Still have 2 months till deer season here in MA. Trying to practice and improve every day.
You make a good point. I'm an aimer too, I just have to get it perfect, and increasing the draw length isn't always best, especially at close distance shooting. I saw people doing odd things at the range, like one guy constantly draws in such a way that his string ends up behind his ear. Now, obviously he cannot keep the string in line with the ear, because it will slice his ear off, so he moves it to the right, anchoring with his thumb. Now, not only does he have to aim way lower than arrow tip, because of just how long his draw length becomes, but also, because of his physiology (his ears are sticking out quite a bit) he no longer has a straight line of sight to the target, it is displaced at an angle to protect his ear, and he loses a third of his arrows in the field consistently, completely missing the butt. I asked him why he does it and he said "I was taught this way". Everyone's physiology is unique, and a good trainer always takes this into consideration. I didn't want to sound like an insufferable "knowitall", so I didn't say anything more. I figured he will eventually learn better form.
Great info! I use pin sights on my recurve so I'm a 3 under, anchor under the chin with my nose point on the string.
I like this info though because my wife shoots bare bow and I like to mess with hers sometimes.
This videos helped clear things up more than any other as of right now. Tried a fixed crawl @ 25yds but my bow just wouldnt tune to it. Will try 3 under with the high anchor point tomorrow to see if I have better luck with my bare shafts.
Another good video. I switched to 3 under so I can string walk. Also using longer arrow to reduce the gap.
Thanks Clay , I also shoot 3 under and am going to try raising my anchor point . Look forward to more vids .
A tip for beginners.....split for instinctive under for aiming. It is a one sentence synopsis for this video....
I think even instinctive shooters would benefit from 3 under.
I find instinctive is easier when I shoot three under.
It's America do as u wish as long as it works for u.....
It came to my mind as I read it: Split for instinctive for style (or looks), and three under for aiming for results. Don’t get me wrong, i think style is a major reason to shoot. Thats why I did it. But reading your comment after watching the video may just have given me enough encouragement to dust off my bows, set up for 3 under, and hit the backyard once again. It became frustrating seeing my arrows stylishly spread all over the target, so they have been neglected for almost a year now... It was a nice video (and comment) to bump into today. Thanks a lot, both Clay and comment guy!
I think tuning arrows is important. When I first started every1 told to get good first then worry about arrows. But I think learning to tune arrows to your own personal setup is very important to accuracy. Or get a friend or shop that knows how to do it to help. It really cuts down on frustration of arrows all over the place and makes you get fed up then put the bow away and forget about archery.
That helps a lot for this new recurve shooter.
Tyvm
I had found the distance dictates mine. 10-15 yards I'll use the cheekbone, and getting to 20 I use my mouth. I like the idea of picking a tooth or more concrete anchor because I know I use different tensions against my mouth. Thanks for the video. Good info
I came from a split finger draw (I did Olympic at school and im English so damn it man thats how its done lol!) however when I moved to a fixed crawl (3 under plus lol) my gap is much more manageable. Great video Clay, cheers for sharing mate.
Thanks
Great video man
I needed this video. Thank you .
Couple years ago after going through the same thing switching points constantly and going to three under I started combining the corner of the mouth with the thumb knuckle behind the jaw bone
Down to earth, easy to process useful training videos. Bro I just want to say thank you. We would all love to see you hook up with Jeff Kavanaugh for a video. Talk about a new and improved masters of archery series! Go for it!!!
Thanks
Very informative. Thank you.
It is really really helpful informations to get the target. Thanks a lot.
You’re welcome 😉
@@clayhayeshunter The Korea hunting season is from Nov to Feb. But I can hunt vermin in my farm. So my hunting season is started from Sep. If I shoot better, the pain of hunted animals is going to be decreased. I believe that.
Clay, there's a fantastic traditional 3D shoot this weekend (Aug 10-11) up in Sandpoint hosted by the North Idaho Traditional Bowhunters. It would be great to see you there!
The best information I've come across for learning to shoot a traditional bow is Byron Ferguson's book "Become the Arrow". Byron shoots split finger, but basically says the same thing that Clay does regarding the importance of getting your eye down as close to the arrow as you can. Shooting 3-under always felt weird to me. But I started split-fingered 50 years ago and, since it's always worked for me, I never saw any reason to change.
Thanks Ken but I’ve got a bow building class going on at that time.
Thanks for the info, I don’t have a ton of time to shoot traditional but this is something I’ve been wanting to work on
putting your pointer just under your eye, you could still thumb-knuckle your earpit. haven't tried with my bow much less on a shoot. but it could work theoretically. thanks for the coaching
Thank you for this and other videos Clay! I really have performed much better after watching and learning from your videos.
Many of the truths in traditional archery are subjective which lends itself to a plethora of variations that have been effectively utilized by accomplished archers.
A three anchor point system has worked exceedingly well for me and keeps my gaps minimized. Three under....index finger to cheek bone....thumb knuckle at indentation behind ear lobe and ridge of hand against side of cheek.
Great advice with regard to anchor. I usually use 'corner of mouth' but I take your point about consistency. I'll try a firmer anchor, next time. This is such an informative channel. Flaxen Saxon
Thanks for the advise I will look and test a bit more with anchoring.
I was just thinking about this very subject yesterday. Thank you so much for your video brother!!!!
Good info clay. I have done the index finger on the cheek bone for a while now and I have found it to be more comfortable
Very interesting you’re now making me want to try shooting three fingers under and change my anchor point to see if there’s a difference ?
I really like your videos, good detail, good ideas, helps a lot.
Anybody else catch the flatulence at 9:43?
Lol. Great video, sir. Love your channel.
Dennis Chupp it was the ‘squeak’ of pulling the arrow out of the target 😂
#tightass!
Fixed Crawl helped me a lot.
Yep, it’s very effective.
Really looking forward to checking out gear vid next, cheers
So Informative and helpful. Thanks for the tips! Gonna really help out my aiming
Glad to hear it!
Great vid as always. I shoot Olympic recurve as well...thus split fingers...but when I tried split in barebow or trads...split fingers just get in the way and uncomfortable. So I switched to 3 under shooting gap...for barebow or trads ..vola...love every moment of it...and yes... coincidentally, my anchor is thumb knuckle at the back of jaw bone.
Great information Clay!
I would add to this that the tilt of the head as well as the tilt of the bow is equally important when establishing your anchor point.
In combination with split finger or three under the head and bow positions are crucial in when “aiming” your point. I find the same to be true when shooting “instinctive” as well.
Great stuff man!!
i find your videos very insightful
Just a point here, but you don't wear glasses man, they pretty much kill the really high anchor options.
I have that problem too. I corrected by tilting my head slightly, but I still nick my glasses on release occasionally.
@@PaladinVII I have bifocals and can still make out my target at distance, since at least for now I don't have to read game their rights , I let them hang from a strap when shooting.
@@jackdelvo2702 Sadly, in my case, unless the target is close enough for me to grab or the size of Texas, I need my glasses. ☹ I am extremely nearsighted.
I hate shooting with my glasses. It's doable, but annoying. I'm glad I switched to contacts.
@@spartena2 yeah same for me, I love my contacts for shooting
...already few second in...perfect answer....again few second further in......precise answer...
Cheers Clay 👍
Thank God I am able to keep it real simple. I just draw to my ear with my thumb knuckle and let go. At 20 yards to 30 I am good and can shoot a pretty fast draw cycle wise. Even when something is moving left or right. No aiming or nothing really. I tried all kinds of anchor points and 3 under release but could not get my bone structure right. So now I am split finger and just so accustomed to shooting that I am good at it. But i hunt and do not really have time to aim. I would probably suck at 3d shooting. My total arrow weight is just over 700 grains but it makes my bow and arrow flight so quiet deer nor hogs do not react to it. So i prefer it over my compound setup. But good info and neat bows you make.
I am a total beginner but love your videos. Great info. Now only to put all to practice ;-) BTW: The bow you have looks amazing...wow
Thank you
Hey Clay I have been shooting bow for a couple of years. I haven't gone bow hunting because I'm not confident with my ability to make a kill shot consistently. The last thing I want to do is wound and not kill. Can you give an aiming video. Maybe that will help me. Thanks Clay I enjoy your content.
Great video! I use a thumb ring. I anchor at the corner of my eye with the second knuckle of my index finger. I should add that my "aim" is almost non-existant. I have been "snap shooting" for 65 years.
Thanks for sharing mate. That was incredibly helpful 🎯
This helped me! Thanks
Thanks for covering this subject again...good video! I anchor behind the ear with thumb knuckle to jaw, all is good to that point. However, things start to fall apart when I attempt to employ back tension in releasing. I pluck instead of release straight back. I’ve yet to master the feel of correct pulling to release. A video on this topic by way of review would be great.
Great video man. Very informative. That's a good beard too
I Challenge you to a dual!!!
Not really but I think it would be fun to hit a 3d course with you. I know I have lots to learn and I always enjoy shooting with experienced archers! Also, I have been playing with my anchor all summer long as I converted from gloves to tab and "instinctive" to an aiming method of sorts . I definitely like my release alot more with tab, am finding better consistency with aiming method but am finding it difficult to settle on an anchor point. I feel like I finally found it though and it is also my cheek bone (3 under)!
The reasons why I changed was my glove had worn holes and while waiting for another to come in I used my tab and found I plucked alot less often. Secondly, after years of "instinctive shooting" I struggled with consistency, especially after winter where my range is indoors, short, and flat. I am finding aiming to some degree more helpful, which translates to less frustration, more fun, and hopefully more efficiency in the Great North Woods of New Hampshire! And to those that call it cheating....my grandfathers lesson on that was "if you aint cheatin' you aint tryin'".
Haha! I like that saying!
I'm right handed and shoot a left handed bow with a thumb ring. My shot groups are tighter than a whale's blow hole, watertight. The thumb is the strongest digit on our hand and there is no pinch or tillering for 3 under. If more people were open minded about it they'd find success. I recently found that Joel Turner also does this.That's my method and I'm sticking to it. You can even shoot a shorter bow with no finger pinch.
Clay, how bout string walking? I have found great consistency by being able to concentrate arrow tip to precise target placement. For me it eliminates one more variable in my shot sequence. Do instinctive shooters need to shoot with their eyes open?
Love your video's and admire your life choices. Success to you and your family.
New sub, I know it's an older video but I shoot split finger with top finger to corner of mouth but I shoot from a reference point on the bow almost like sights but not quite.
About 20 years ago. Before RUclips. I decided to give archery a try. I ordered a compound bow from Sportsman's Guide that was on sale. I started shooting at 75 yard's. Couldn't hit anything! Lost all my expensive arrows! Got discouraged and sold the bow. Lordy lordy lordy I wish I had RUclips and you back then! Going to make a hickory bow after I get caught up in the garden. I have watched your video on using snake skin and fake snake skin to back a bow. Is that something I should do with my first hickory bow build? I'm a woodworker with a full shop. I have been using shaving horses for about 30 years. I'll probably leave my favorite drawknife to you when I die. It's a folding drawknife made in 1921. Holds a crazy sharp edge. So if you get a message from my wife after I'm gone. Please let her know where to send it. Love what you do. I enjoy texting with you that night. Please keep the videos coming!
I shoot recurve as well as compound I find both have their advantages but when shooting a recurve I use a variation of the split finger using the pointer and the middle finger anchoring My thumb knuckle just below the upper mandible in line with my temple, I have found that it has provided me the most consistent shot placement regardless if im doing instinct or sight line. And I know there are going to be trolls saying that's not the correct way to pull, but like you they are free to come shoot with me...