I am sooooo so glad that I learned this from you from the very start because I have always had one package and it's allowed me to only book couples who VALUE me and ultimately grow as quickly as I have in just 4 short years! First wedding was $850 (9/2019) and I am now booking $4300 weddings!
@@KatelynJames Awesome video!!!!! What would you recommend charging using this pricing structure if you are an experienced event photographer but new to weddings specifically?
As a newly starting out photographer I found this truly helpful. I think pricing is one of the hardest parts of this job, but it shouldn't be. I think with the emotions attached to photos we sometimes forget we are proving a service and deserve to be paid appropriately. Great, simple video.
Omg! This is so true. I’ve done about 15 “6 hour coverage” packages and it always turns into an 8 hour day. Hard but valuable lesson learned. Thanks. This video definitely puts things into perspective.
When I would tell my Mom about people wanting more than they could afford regarding photography, she'd say "Tell her to take a selfie." LOL she was in her 70's when she said that. RIP Mom, she was married to a professional, PPA Master photographer for 50 years (my Dad). We miss her so much, she could make us laugh at how exasperating the photography business can be.
You need to tell them you have 30 minutes left, do you want we to stay, it is a $100 per hour, what do you want to do? If no answer or no agreement to pay the extra leave. Stick to the agreed contract. I have done a few free jobs and i am stick of people either complaining or wanting more. No proper business or tradie would do extra for free.
I've definitely been doing the cheaper packages and then I end up with people wanting even more than I was already giving. This was definitely the push I needed to stop it. Thank you!
This is the first video I have seen from you and about 1 minute in, I had a really good feeling about you. Thanks for being genuine, kind, and thorough! Definitely got me thinking about how I can adjust my offerings to not only streamline my booking process but also de-stress my client experience.
THANK YOU FOR THIS!! Now that this year's wedding season is over I'm restructuring a lot of things, and my pricing is one of them. I currently offer three packages and experience exactly what you described (brides trying to fit a whole day into 6 hours or trying to take out the engagement session for a discount) on a frequent basis! I have been wanting to switch to one package offering, and this information just confirmed that decision for me!
"You gave it to them for free." -KJ "Working with a client they never wanted to work with." -KJ This hit me soo hard! I currently have 3 wedding packages and of my 5 weddings this year 1 was my highest package and the rest fell in my cheapest package. 2 of those weddings were legit mini weddings and were short, sweet and to the point (ideal clients)... The other two left me in extremely uncomfortable situations where I worked my ass off and still ended up working some hours for free with clients I didn't want to work with. I was getting ready to publish my website this week and it is safe to say that I will be delaying that until I update my pricing. Such a great video and about a topic I don't see other photographers talking about!
Yasss to this video, Katelyn! Thank you for validating what I have been feeling this past 3 years in my photography journey. As a boudoir photographer there are so many ways I can offer my services, and it has been exhausting finding one that works, thats simple not only for me but for my clients. Simplicity is KEY! love this. and will def apply all these nuggets. Thank you Katelyn!
I don't see a link listed as the "pricing guide." Did you forget to post it or am I just missing it? I love this video and love that you actual tell us things others are so hush hush about. How do we learn if no one shares, right? :)
Thank you. This is something I struggled with as a photographer/videographer. The imposter syndrome. I know my work is great but I had to grow to get there in my own mind.
Your business content has been genuinely sooo helpful, literally the biggest game changer!! I’ve done photography for 7 years on and off because the business side of it has just been so stressful for me. But thanks to you I’m learning that there are ways to do it without feeling like I’m stretching in every direction to my breaking point 😅
Honestly I appreciate this input so much. I've been trying to decide on whether or not to just do one full package, cause even I personally feel that the multiple packages can be confusing. And I'm a very simple person and want to give my client the best possible of course. So thank you for this. You've helped me make up my mind.
I just started a photography business recently and I had someone suggest that I offer wedding packages. I want to consider what others suggest as I am still learning and growing, but I know that I don’t want to give anyone any less than the whole day for their wedding because I want them to have the whole story of their wedding day as you said. Thank you so much for sharing this! Your video really puts things into perspective for me! 😊
4:16 that's when I realized how many times I have gone through that. thank you for you insight Kalelyn, going forward, I will go by the one price model. I have been a by the hour photog and while it has worked for me to an extent with elopements, it has bitten me in the butt when I covered those eight hour+ weddings when I was only booked to cover four or six hours.
I've also never had packages! I have "Base Coverage" which is all day coverage as determined by photographer/second/files - always been that way! I have engagement sessions and albums as an extra. I also offer a third shooter as an add-on for weddings with really tough timelines (I have a regular second/assistant but we stick together and sometimes the men and ladies are getting ready too far apart). The only downside is, I do occasionally have lovely couples who come to me and only want 2-3-5-6 hours - but that's not the KWP experience and it's not profitable for me! ESP in Pittsburgh where the wedding season is short. I also don't want someone to book a 6 hour and then have the chance to book a 10 hour later but can't! So it's all day or the highway around here. :)
Love the idea of engagement sessions in order to get to know the couple better and be comfortable. Thank you so much for this video! Definitely taking notes.. 🧡
Love this and i have never liked the package approach. Thinking about revamping my wedding info with just one standard option, and a micro wedding package. Another part of putting a second photographer in there as a standard is the chance to give new photographers a chance to help build their portfolios. I love getting to shoot with newer photographers who are trying to build their portfolio and break into the market and I think as you move into a role in any career where you can teach, that you absolutely should!
Awesome input Katelyn! Thanks. I'm looking into shooting weddings next year, but I won't do it for a small budget, because I've got so much other work already. It wouldn't make sense. But making a big package deal that is non negotiable and add both a second photographer and or a videographer, it makes a lot of sense! Thanks!
My Dad and my Uncle ran wedding photography and Video for almost 4 decades. This was when I was a kid, where digital cameras did not hit the retail market at all. This video reminds me of those occasions where we signed up for a 12 hour shoot and ended up dragging 2 days.
We don't offer less than 8 hours except in RARE occasions. However, we DO offer packages, and it has worked great for us. And of those that have booked our 8 hour package, about 60-70% end up paying for more time at our hourly rate, and basically end up paying the next package amount anyway, with less deliverables. I think it comes down to how you educate you client as the authority, and explain why they need the extra time, and how it will benefit them in the end.
With you 100% thank you for validating my thoughts , Im current offering full coverage , but I like the idea of offering 8 hours as a base and charging for more time.
@@KatelynJames You have me rethinking my package structure , I current offering full coverage , but stating at 8 hrs allows the couple to choose how much coverage they want and it's easier to quantify.
Im late but this makes ALOT of sense. Here I was offering 4 different packages for weddings. I think it is smart to just offer one. It is easier on me and also stress free on the client
You are so on-point and brilliant. Thank you for sharing your heart out and for helping me and others. I've been looking to get out of the "pricing dead zone." I'm off now to get your kit :)
All of these ideas have been floating in my mind. Your video helped solidify them just in time to update my plans for 2022. Over the winter I plan to dig in to your paid material.
I could relate to this so much! I used to have a 5 hour coverage and two more with more time but brides would always try to squeeze everything into 5 hours when they really needed 8.
Ms. James, just for clarification. the KJ Pricing Guide has your base/non-negotiable pricing as well as all of your available options? This is Genius!!!
This video was recommended to me even though I have never searched for photography videos. Lol I had fun listening to you explaining everything. So, here is to me consuming more of your content, Ms James 🥂🥂🥂🙏🙏🙏 Oh, and a podcast would be great. The way you break down everything in this video made me think that you have a lot more to share with us. 😊😊😊
I agree about the eight hours Katelyn. I do wedding videography, and I always want to deliver a product I'm proud of, and with less than 8 hours, I would be disadvantaging myself and the client.
This is true.. :) Right now though in NY many people are not having traditional 8 hours weddings .and catering hall weddings are rarer to book.. . I have been booking 5 hours consistently this year.. If we need an extra hour they pay the day of
Totally agree with everything you are saying. Going through that this year and was wanting to change my pricing and how to make things easier. I just love your videos.
Thank you SOO much for puttig this out there KJ! I had been offering 4 hour 'covid-shotgun' packages and for the most part moved away from them for full day coverage. This content is very important for me as I shot 42 weddings in my first year as a wedding photographer. September 19th of 2020 to September 19th of 2021. Then shot another 5 in November. I have stayed too long more times than I can count and missed moments and season's at home that I'll never get back and certainly was not compensated for. I'm currently making a new priceguide for this booking season so this helps a TON! Oh and yes...I did shoot 2 weddings in one day in 2 states (120 miles apart) and neither even tipped! I'm certain I lost money and that's on me for not charging enough to begin with. As an up and coming wedding photographer I feel I'm at a crossroad and a bit lost. After experiencing a major job loss during covid I took the leap, headfirst! I had never charged for an image in my life. The business aspects take allot of time and I'm ready to level up and lean in for 2022-2023 seasons. Thanks KJ!
Good discussion Katelyn. I am long past doing weddings now but back then I probably should have done this.The idea of a small low key wedding is a bit of a "furphy". I had about 3 packages but one would have been better.
I think pricing and packaging is very individual and also really dependent where you work. For me, i definitely wouldnt want to loose all the local small weddings during weekdays i only shoot around 1.5h on and normally can turn around in one day. I also wouldnt want to loose the bigger weddings that value quality photography, but simply are fine with having only the prime events of the day covered and alocate the budget elsehwere. those mix pretty much 50:50 with the full on days where i stay 10h+. But if you do 3-4 different packages like me, its really necessary to get a feel for what the client wants and needs during the preliminary talks, already have an understanding how the day will unfold and dont sell yourself short. i often miscalculated in the beginning and stayed longer for way to less money - but i dont do anymore. When i sell a 4h package i f.e. know i can fit the ceremony, couple shoot and cutting the cake into it on that day. thats it. and the couple is good with that. i am totaly not trying to also fit the getting ready into that because it will never work. i also educate my couples that i gladly stay longer on such a day if they want to - but of course they have to pay the extra hours. i dont charge for 30min extra because aunt becky got late and the timetable shifted, but i charge if they want f.e. the wedding dance on top the agreed package. i never had problems with that in the last years and sometimes a 6h package becomes a full paid 10h package on the day and all sides are happy :) but it was be a learning curve until that strategy worked and you need a certain degree of finesse with your clients.
Love the video but in the uk people want to see the price and the fact that its not on website means its a crazy amount and they are not interested, and thats so true, hearing you quote your prices of £3,000+ ? (only crazy where i live, sorry lol) People aren't stupid and not showing price is a red flag over here ! merry christmas and new year ! big fan !!
I'm just going through the comments and reviewing them.... What pricing do you give for what they call a "Justice of the Peace" wedding... that may be an hour of your time at most? Do you post that price as well?
@@FeedScrn No, for those that would like a more bespoke package, I tell them to get in touch with further details. My point is that by seeing the prices of my main packages they will be aware of the price range I cover which above all shows transparency and my ability to build a package unique to them, within the packages they can see.
I'm going through this with a wedding coming up. They should have booked my 8 hour package and I already told the bride I have enough time to get any details at this one. I'm definitely going to be restructuring, like...now!
It makes me shudder when I see FB adverts like "Bronze - £300 - Silver £500 - Gold £750", and I think "how on earth is that profitable?". I get less clients than I might otherwise, but the clients I do get value what I do. And, like you, its a one bundle deal. Me for the day, taking pictures, and I make them a printed album. Like you explain, it saves the whole "Oh - I know you've been here 4 hours but the first dance is not for another 2". And what else are you gonna do if you're shooting a wedding that day? You aren't gonna be taking the kids swimming first are you. So the day is w rite off anyway. So, offer it out for the day, and get paid for it. Good advice you're sharing. Bravo.
This is such a great advice!! Yes, I made these mistakes :-( Do you ever do 12 hours weddings? People sometimes want me to be till the midnight and the dance, and then it turns into a really, really long day....
KJ, I have no problem with wedding photographers releasing digital files to clients. 1) Curious, are you releasing medium- or high-res jpegs or something else? 2) Do you or your client retain the copyrights to your captured wedding images? 3) If the client is granted a limited, non-commercial digital print & display license and you retain the copyrights, do you timely register your wedding images with the US Copyright Office? Thanks.
@@KatelynJames KJ, you’ve confused my question/answer with another person’s; I’m not Sid. Again, here is my comment and questions: KJ, I have no problem with wedding photographers releasing digital files to clients. 1) Curious, are you releasing medium- or high-res jpegs or something else? 2) Do you or your client retain the copyrights to your captured wedding images? 3) If the client is granted a limited, non-commercial digital print & display license and you retain the copyrights, do *you timely register your wedding images with the US Copyright Office?* Thanks.
I’m confused by releasing ‘digital files’ Surely you mean jpeg and not raw and what wedding photographers in this social media age doesn’t release jpegs?
I don’t have a second shooter so I only do smaller weddings. I let them know up front what I can and cannot do. But I have been guilty for staying over because the “band” was late or whatever reason.
Hi..wonderful content and very informative..my question or topic is about second photographers..the thing is do you look for one that has similar styles creatively as yourself..I ask that because shooting by yourself you have full creative control and your creative eye..what if the second photographer doesn't capture moments like yourself?..the help with other moments and different perspective is understandable...so basically my question is how do you choose a second photographer..and how do you handle lets say photo credit?..lets say the second photographer captures such a better moment and photos?.. upstage the primary photographer?.. maybe upstage isn't the correct word?..but that example scenario?..I guess at the end of the day a good second photographer is there to help and compliment the primary photographer?
KJ is 1000 percent right. When you price low, you will be asked to stay longer and if you truly care about your work, you will stay longer and when you divide what you charged into an hourly rate, including editing, you will actually lose money. The second shooter in today’s environment is practically mandatory. We not only shoot weddings, but all events, along with Videography/live streaming and it has become more apparent in our business model to outsource some of our editing to meet deadlines and to become more efficient especially now having city contracts. We have been through what KJ described and you will become disappointed with yourself and even contemplate quitting. The people that you get in on the cheap will always want more for less and they won’t be long term clients, but the expectation by them will be the same as your more expensive clients. Never cut yourself short. Because in the long run, you will hate yourself for it. Let your work and professionalism speak for itself. If you noticed KJ said, the price is the price, which sets expectations for both her and the client.
Hey Katelyn, always very insightful to watch one of your videos. While watching thi I was wondering what is the lighting setup for your youtube videos because it is just sooo pleasant.
Who stays longer for free?! If I'm booked for 8 hours and they want me to stay an additional two hours to fit everything in, those two hours are added to the final bill. I would've never thought of just staying longer for free. Honestly, I'm shocked people do that. Don't! This is your valuable time (and money!). Make sure your contract reflects that additional hours will have to be paid!
Agree! I make it very clear on our Zoom dates that if anything goes over time by a hour...I'll send an invoice. They're fully aware. Communication and clarity is so very helpful to them
What wonderful information you've provided. Simple and clear and I totally understand your digital file offer. I've been a second shooter a few times (it was hard work and educational) and I have one question: Do you offer a certain number of edited photos on your digital file?
@@KatelynJames i would love to have you on my podcast one day called vahagraphy talk. We can talk about wedding photography business and such. would make for an interesting talk. I just had Jared Polin on.
Hey Katelyn! I love that you offer a complimentary engagement session with your solo wedding package to give you the chance to get to know your clients and for them to get a feel for your workflow prior to the wedding to make the day of smoother. I just started a photography business, so I don’t have a lot of clients yet. I’m pretty new to everything, so I don’t feel like it is realistic/profitable for me to offer a free engagement session at the moment. However, I shot a wedding blindly recently, meaning I met the client the day of. I don’t want to be unkind, but without going into detail, I ended up in a bit of an uncomfortable situation. It made me reconsider my way of going about things. How would you suggest I go about meeting the client prior to the wedding? Should I require a meeting prior to the wedding to discuss details? Also, as far as organization goes, I find that some couples struggle with that, however, I value vision. Do you think it would be beneficial to have the client write out a rough draft of wedding day in order to make sure that I know the flow of things and understand their vision and what they’re expecting of me? I don’t want to scare clients away by requiring these things, but sometimes I feel like the wedding day itself is chaotic and I don’t want to be jumping through hoops to meet expectations that I didn’t realize I was meant to meet. Again, I want to give my clients the very best, but I’m realizing that I am lacking in some aspects of organization due to my lack of experience on the business side of things.
Yes, you definitely need to meet with them ahead of time!!!! I don't even book them without a meeting, preferably in person, but at the very least, on the phone. When they inquire, I always include in my reply, "Let's get together, you can tell me what you have in mind for your day, I'll show you what I have to offer, and we'll see if we're a good fit." I do a photo shoot with them ahead of time, even if they've already had an engagement session with another photographer. It helps us get comfortable together in so many ways. But it can also be an opportunity to find out some things that you wouldn't want to wait until their wedding day to find out. One example: At their engagement session I found out the bride had a deformed right hand. I hadn't noticed it yet but when posing them holding hands, she shyly asked her groom, "Should I tell her?" It was something that we were able to chat about and get comfortable with months before the wedding. (She was self-conscious enough about it that she even asked the officiant if it would be OK to reverse the traditional sides that bride/groom stand at the ceremony - so her left hand would face the guests, rather than her right.) If I had waited until the wedding day, she would have had to be explaining to me why she didn't want posed certain ways, etc. -- and I want my brides to feel GORGEOUS on their wedding day, not focusing on their self-perceived flaws!!!!
Hi Katelyn, Just a couple of quick questions. I have just about all your courses except the Pricing Guide because I do not have the software. My question is, how do you respond when a potential client loves your package, but wants to remove the engagement session and drop the cost, or the second shooter or wants a discount?
I haven't stayed for free or been asked to. I've had clients add on the day of, BUT boy have I had lots of clients asking me to do way too much in too little time with improper wedding planning...
My particular city tends to have much shorter weddings. Where the bride gets ready at their hotel and then only on location for about 3 hours. Most of the weddings I have done have been extremely laid back as well. Where they just wanted the core elements captured. I tend to be extremely efficient so knocking those out in 3 hours isn't that difficult for me. I actually did a 3 hour and a two hour wedding yesterday.
I agree with this approach. I'm getting ready to start doing weddings for money, and my first thought was, I'm spending a day on this regardless of the time I'm actually there shooting. No point in offering partial days for less money. I can't fill that time with anything else. It's just giving up money and restricting what I can do. Charge for extras hours, sure. Do less than 8 hours, no. I've also given in on the digital files. It's what most people want. I hate digital files. No guarantee they'll print them well, or at all. I'm thinking of including some "mandatory" prints with the files. I'm also thinking of including affordable prints that still make a profit, but don't need a massive markup since I'll already have my profit baked into my base offering. The idea of doing all that work only to have people viewing the images a phone kills me. Low res social media images, sure. Whipping out a phone to show house guests wedding pictures, please no.
I have a question about the complementary engagement shoot. If I understand correctly, it is only complementary because they are booking you for the wedding. So, if they do the engagement shoot and do not use you for the wedding, they do have to pay for the engagement session right?
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I am sooooo so glad that I learned this from you from the very start because I have always had one package and it's allowed me to only book couples who VALUE me and ultimately grow as quickly as I have in just 4 short years! First wedding was $850 (9/2019) and I am now booking $4300 weddings!
Love this Courtney!! Thanks for watching!
That’s amazing!!
@@KatelynJames Awesome video!!!!! What would you recommend charging using this pricing structure if you are an experienced event photographer but new to weddings specifically?
As a newly starting out photographer I found this truly helpful. I think pricing is one of the hardest parts of this job, but it shouldn't be. I think with the emotions attached to photos we sometimes forget we are proving a service and deserve to be paid appropriately. Great, simple video.
Thanks for watching!
Omg! This is so true. I’ve done about 15 “6 hour coverage” packages and it always turns into an 8 hour day. Hard but valuable lesson learned. Thanks. This video definitely puts things into perspective.
Thanks for sharing Kayla!
When I would tell my Mom about people wanting more than they could afford regarding photography, she'd say "Tell her to take a selfie." LOL she was in her 70's when she said that. RIP Mom, she was married to a professional, PPA Master photographer for 50 years (my Dad). We miss her so much, she could make us laugh at how exasperating the photography business can be.
You need to tell them you have 30 minutes left, do you want we to stay, it is a $100 per hour, what do you want to do? If no answer or no agreement to pay the extra leave. Stick to the agreed contract. I have done a few free jobs and i am stick of people either complaining or wanting more. No proper business or tradie would do extra for free.
I've definitely been doing the cheaper packages and then I end up with people wanting even more than I was already giving. This was definitely the push I needed to stop it.
Thank you!
This is the first video I have seen from you and about 1 minute in, I had a really good feeling about you. Thanks for being genuine, kind, and thorough! Definitely got me thinking about how I can adjust my offerings to not only streamline my booking process but also de-stress my client experience.
Wow, thank you!
Yes! Katelyn is a really great teacher. Right to the point and in a warm, natural way.
THANK YOU FOR THIS!! Now that this year's wedding season is over I'm restructuring a lot of things, and my pricing is one of them. I currently offer three packages and experience exactly what you described (brides trying to fit a whole day into 6 hours or trying to take out the engagement session for a discount) on a frequent basis! I have been wanting to switch to one package offering, and this information just confirmed that decision for me!
The pricing kit would be really helpful and goes into more detail! Thanks for watching!
"You gave it to them for free." -KJ
"Working with a client they never wanted to work with." -KJ
This hit me soo hard! I currently have 3 wedding packages and of my 5 weddings this year 1 was my highest package and the rest fell in my cheapest package. 2 of those weddings were legit mini weddings and were short, sweet and to the point (ideal clients)... The other two left me in extremely uncomfortable situations where I worked my ass off and still ended up working some hours for free with clients I didn't want to work with. I was getting ready to publish my website this week and it is safe to say that I will be delaying that until I update my pricing.
Such a great video and about a topic I don't see other photographers talking about!
Thanks for sharing Justin! Glad it was helpful!
Yasss to this video, Katelyn! Thank you for validating what I have been feeling this past 3 years in my photography journey. As a boudoir photographer there are so many ways I can offer my services, and it has been exhausting finding one that works, thats simple not only for me but for my clients. Simplicity is KEY! love this. and will def apply all these nuggets. Thank you Katelyn!
Awesome Layra! Thanks for sharing!
Wow I’ve never even thought about it like this before! Seriously going to consider changing my pricing structure. Thanks for sharing this Katelyn!
Glad it was helpful!
I don't see a link listed as the "pricing guide." Did you forget to post it or am I just missing it? I love this video and love that you actual tell us things others are so hush hush about. How do we learn if no one shares, right? :)
So sorry! You can check it out here: geni.us/kj-pricing-guide
Thank you. This is something I struggled with as a photographer/videographer. The imposter syndrome. I know my work is great but I had to grow to get there in my own mind.
Thanks for watching!
life-saver. I was really getting overwhelmed with pricing and you're so right. SIMPLICITY!! Thanks, Katelyn for this nugget!
Thanks so much for watching!
Your business content has been genuinely sooo helpful, literally the biggest game changer!! I’ve done photography for 7 years on and off because the business side of it has just been so stressful for me. But thanks to you I’m learning that there are ways to do it without feeling like I’m stretching in every direction to my breaking point 😅
Love this!! You were reading my mind because I 100% needed to hear this!! Thank you!!
Awesome! Love to hear that!
Honestly I appreciate this input so much. I've been trying to decide on whether or not to just do one full package, cause even I personally feel that the multiple packages can be confusing. And I'm a very simple person and want to give my client the best possible of course. So thank you for this. You've helped me make up my mind.
I just started a photography business recently and I had someone suggest that I offer wedding packages. I want to consider what others suggest as I am still learning and growing, but I know that I don’t want to give anyone any less than the whole day for their wedding because I want them to have the whole story of their wedding day as you said. Thank you so much for sharing this! Your video really puts things into perspective for me! 😊
Thanks for watching!
Assist a professional photographer on weddings for a long while before you start charging people.
4:16 that's when I realized how many times I have gone through that.
thank you for you insight Kalelyn, going forward, I will go by the one price model.
I have been a by the hour photog and while it has worked for me to an extent with elopements, it has bitten me in the butt when I covered those eight hour+ weddings when I was only booked to cover four or six hours.
I've also never had packages! I have "Base Coverage" which is all day coverage as determined by photographer/second/files - always been that way! I have engagement sessions and albums as an extra. I also offer a third shooter as an add-on for weddings with really tough timelines (I have a regular second/assistant but we stick together and sometimes the men and ladies are getting ready too far apart).
The only downside is, I do occasionally have lovely couples who come to me and only want 2-3-5-6 hours - but that's not the KWP experience and it's not profitable for me! ESP in Pittsburgh where the wedding season is short. I also don't want someone to book a 6 hour and then have the chance to book a 10 hour later but can't! So it's all day or the highway around here. :)
Love it Kristen!
your voice is so soothing. as someone with mad adhd i find myself so entranced in what your saying. really helpful thankyou
Haha, thank you! I'm glad you found it helpful!
I really love this breakdown- thank you for being honest/transparent about your thoughts behind it!
You are so welcome!
Love the idea of engagement sessions in order to get to know the couple better and be comfortable. Thank you so much for this video! Definitely taking notes.. 🧡
Love this and i have never liked the package approach. Thinking about revamping my wedding info with just one standard option, and a micro wedding package. Another part of putting a second photographer in there as a standard is the chance to give new photographers a chance to help build their portfolios. I love getting to shoot with newer photographers who are trying to build their portfolio and break into the market and I think as you move into a role in any career where you can teach, that you absolutely should!
Awesome input Katelyn! Thanks.
I'm looking into shooting weddings next year, but I won't do it for a small budget, because I've got so much other work already. It wouldn't make sense.
But making a big package deal that is non negotiable and add both a second photographer and or a videographer, it makes a lot of sense!
Thanks!
Thanks for watching!
My Dad and my Uncle ran wedding photography and Video for almost 4 decades. This was when I was a kid, where digital cameras did not hit the retail market at all. This video reminds me of those occasions where we signed up for a 12 hour shoot and ended up dragging 2 days.
Oh my gosh this is so great! I haven't shot a wedding before, BUT I think this is soooo applicable to any photography job. WOW! Great insight!
Thanks for sharing Alex!
We don't offer less than 8 hours except in RARE occasions. However, we DO offer packages, and it has worked great for us. And of those that have booked our 8 hour package, about 60-70% end up paying for more time at our hourly rate, and basically end up paying the next package amount anyway, with less deliverables. I think it comes down to how you educate you client as the authority, and explain why they need the extra time, and how it will benefit them in the end.
Thanks for sharing! Glad that works for you guys!
With you 100% thank you for validating my thoughts , Im current offering full coverage , but I like the idea of offering 8 hours as a base and charging for more time.
We love this structure!
@@KatelynJames You have me rethinking my package structure , I current offering full coverage , but stating at 8 hrs allows the couple to choose how much coverage they want and it's easier to quantify.
Im late but this makes ALOT of sense. Here I was offering 4 different packages for weddings. I think it is smart to just offer one. It is easier on me and also stress free on the client
YOU are RIGHT ON the mark. Good job.
This was such a great video Katelyn. Up until today, I have offered packages. What you have laid out here for us has made so much sense. Thank you!
The pricing kit goes into much more detail about our process! Glad it was helpful!
You are so on-point and brilliant. Thank you for sharing your heart out and for helping me and others. I've been looking to get out of the "pricing dead zone." I'm off now to get your kit :)
Thanks for watching Otto!
For a second in the end, I thought we weren't going to hear Tyler's "BYE!" lol and then you got me!
haha!! we gotta figure that out!
You're amazing ❤ Great value in you're videos!
All of these ideas have been floating in my mind. Your video helped solidify them just in time to update my plans for 2022.
Over the winter I plan to dig in to your paid material.
Awesome! Thanks for sharing Mark!
Girl you are preaching👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾 very good stuff.
Thank you so much 🤗
I just came across your videos today. Great content and great vibe. Thank you! Love it.
Awesome! Thank you!
I could relate to this so much! I used to have a 5 hour coverage and two more with more time but brides would always try to squeeze everything into 5 hours when they really needed 8.
Makes so much sense!
That’s the real expert that you have to listen to
Great video
Thanks for watching!
A fantastic reminder. I would love to request another video on website reviews!
Coming soon!! Wanna through your website in the mix?
Ms. James, just for clarification. the KJ Pricing Guide has your base/non-negotiable pricing as well as all of your available options? This is Genius!!!
Correct!
This video was recommended to me even though I have never searched for photography videos. Lol
I had fun listening to you explaining everything. So, here is to me consuming more of your content, Ms James 🥂🥂🥂🙏🙏🙏
Oh, and a podcast would be great. The way you break down everything in this video made me think that you have a lot more to share with us. 😊😊😊
That’s awesome thanks for commenting!!
I agree about the eight hours Katelyn. I do wedding videography, and I always want to deliver a product I'm proud of, and with less than 8 hours, I would be disadvantaging myself and the client.
Best advices thanks you so much now I am going to fix my Portillo you the only RUclips that give this advise
Lol!! You always say it first, Katelyn!!
Great video!!
We will get it one day!
This is true.. :) Right now though in NY many people are not having traditional 8 hours weddings .and catering hall weddings are rarer to book.. . I have been booking 5 hours consistently this year.. If we need an extra hour they pay the day of
Thanks for watching!!
Totally agree with everything you are saying. Going through that this year and was wanting to change my pricing and how to make things easier. I just love your videos.
Thanks for watching!
Great Info!!!! If I had only had this advise sooner, I'd still be shooting weddings.
haha!! there is still time!!
Thank you SOO much for puttig this out there KJ!
I had been offering 4 hour 'covid-shotgun' packages and for the most part moved away from them for full day coverage.
This content is very important for me as I shot 42 weddings in my first year as a wedding photographer. September 19th of 2020 to September 19th of 2021.
Then shot another 5 in November.
I have stayed too long more times than I can count and missed moments and season's at home that I'll never get back and certainly was not compensated for.
I'm currently making a new priceguide for this booking season so this helps a TON!
Oh and yes...I did shoot 2 weddings in one day in 2 states (120 miles apart) and neither even tipped!
I'm certain I lost money and that's on me for not charging enough to begin with. As an up and coming wedding photographer I feel I'm at a crossroad and a bit lost. After experiencing a major job loss during covid I took the leap, headfirst!
I had never charged for an image in my life. The business aspects take allot of time and I'm ready to level up and lean in for 2022-2023 seasons.
Thanks KJ!
Thanks for watching and sharing Dan!!
Good discussion Katelyn. I am long past doing weddings now but back then I probably should have done this.The idea of a small low key wedding is a bit of a "furphy". I had about 3 packages but one would have been better.
Thanks for sharing Geoff!
This is NEEDED. Very valuable info. Thank you for this. This also applies to other types of photography.
Thanks Kyle!
Makes so much sense, even for a family photographer like me!
Love it! Thanks for sharing!
Very interesting. I have 2 packages. 6 & 8 hours. But this makes so much sense. I’ve actually never heard of only having 1 package.
We have done it this way for over 10 years and teach it to all of our students!
I agree with your views in wedding photography 👍
Thanks for watching Kenny!
@@KatelynJames good stuff, very cool personality too👍
so many valid points. havent had package deals for years and worked like a charm.
Yes! Love to hear it!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge. You explain things very well, easy to understand. Love all your videos.
Thank you!!
Thank you for this! I wish I knew sooner but it’s always a growth opportunity💛
Absolutely!! Thanks for watching!
I think pricing and packaging is very individual and also really dependent where you work. For me, i definitely wouldnt want to loose all the local small weddings during weekdays i only shoot around 1.5h on and normally can turn around in one day. I also wouldnt want to loose the bigger weddings that value quality photography, but simply are fine with having only the prime events of the day covered and alocate the budget elsehwere. those mix pretty much 50:50 with the full on days where i stay 10h+.
But if you do 3-4 different packages like me, its really necessary to get a feel for what the client wants and needs during the preliminary talks, already have an understanding how the day will unfold and dont sell yourself short. i often miscalculated in the beginning and stayed longer for way to less money - but i dont do anymore. When i sell a 4h package i f.e. know i can fit the ceremony, couple shoot and cutting the cake into it on that day. thats it. and the couple is good with that. i am totaly not trying to also fit the getting ready into that because it will never work.
i also educate my couples that i gladly stay longer on such a day if they want to - but of course they have to pay the extra hours. i dont charge for 30min extra because aunt becky got late and the timetable shifted, but i charge if they want f.e. the wedding dance on top the agreed package.
i never had problems with that in the last years and sometimes a 6h package becomes a full paid 10h package on the day and all sides are happy :) but it was be a learning curve until that strategy worked and you need a certain degree of finesse with your clients.
Awesome video! Very great points. I personally do both prints AND digital files 😁
Awesome! Thanks for sharing!
Love the video but in the uk people want to see the price and the fact that its not on website means its a crazy amount and they are not interested, and thats so true, hearing you quote your prices of £3,000+ ? (only crazy where i live, sorry lol) People aren't stupid and not showing price is a red flag over here ! merry christmas and new year ! big fan !!
I'm just going through the comments and reviewing them.... What pricing do you give for what they call a "Justice of the Peace" wedding... that may be an hour of your time at most? Do you post that price as well?
@@FeedScrn No, for those that would like a more bespoke package, I tell them to get in touch with further details. My point is that by seeing the prices of my main packages they will be aware of the price range I cover which above all shows transparency and my ability to build a package unique to them, within the packages they can see.
@@robertYoung-ut6bk - Cool.... Thanks for your reply / the info.
I'm going through this with a wedding coming up. They should have booked my 8 hour package and I already told the bride I have enough time to get any details at this one. I'm definitely going to be restructuring, like...now!
Love it!!
I LOVE this concept. Looks like I'll have to change a few things on my website 👏🏼
Thanks for watching phoebe!
So so true. Same for planners.
Thanks for sharing Sara!
It makes me shudder when I see FB adverts like "Bronze - £300 - Silver £500 - Gold £750", and I think "how on earth is that profitable?". I get less clients than I might otherwise, but the clients I do get value what I do. And, like you, its a one bundle deal. Me for the day, taking pictures, and I make them a printed album. Like you explain, it saves the whole "Oh - I know you've been here 4 hours but the first dance is not for another 2". And what else are you gonna do if you're shooting a wedding that day? You aren't gonna be taking the kids swimming first are you. So the day is w rite off anyway. So, offer it out for the day, and get paid for it. Good advice you're sharing. Bravo.
This is such a great advice!! Yes, I made these mistakes :-( Do you ever do 12 hours weddings? People sometimes want me to be till the midnight and the dance, and then it turns into a really, really long day....
KJ, I have no problem with wedding photographers releasing digital files to clients.
1) Curious, are you releasing medium- or high-res jpegs or something else?
2) Do you or your client retain the copyrights to your captured wedding images?
3) If the client is granted a limited, non-commercial digital print & display license and you retain the copyrights, do you timely register your wedding images with the US Copyright Office?
Thanks.
Thanks for sharing Sid!
@@KatelynJames KJ, you’ve confused my question/answer with another person’s; I’m not Sid.
Again, here is my comment and questions:
KJ, I have no problem with wedding photographers releasing digital files to clients.
1) Curious, are you releasing medium- or high-res jpegs or something else?
2) Do you or your client retain the copyrights to your captured wedding images?
3) If the client is granted a limited, non-commercial digital print & display license and you retain the copyrights, do *you timely register your wedding images with the US Copyright Office?*
Thanks.
Too bad she never answered your questions. I was curious about the digital files, too
I’m confused by releasing ‘digital files’ Surely you mean jpeg and not raw and what wedding photographers in this social media age doesn’t release jpegs?
I loved this video Katelyn!!!
Thanks so much!!
I don’t have a second shooter so I only do smaller weddings. I let them know up front what I can and cannot do. But I have been guilty for staying over because the “band” was late or whatever reason.
Makes sense dale! Thanks for watching!
I just did a whole weekend for 9 I'm just startin out n it got more gigs
Thanks for watching!
This is such a great video!! Learnt a lot
Glad it was helpful!
ALWAYS give me something to think about!
Always learning!! Always growing!!
Oh wow, thank you for this! This is so simple!
Glad it was helpful!
I’m amazed to hear a pro say they don’t feel comfortable shooting a wedding on their own
Thanks for watching!
Hi..wonderful content and very informative..my question or topic is about second photographers..the thing is do you look for one that has similar styles creatively as yourself..I ask that because shooting by yourself you have full creative control and your creative eye..what if the second photographer doesn't capture moments like yourself?..the help with other moments and different perspective is understandable...so basically my question is how do you choose a second photographer..and how do you handle lets say photo credit?..lets say the second photographer captures such a better moment and photos?.. upstage the primary photographer?.. maybe upstage isn't the correct word?..but that example scenario?..I guess at the end of the day a good second photographer is there to help and compliment the primary photographer?
Thanks for watching!
KJ is 1000 percent right. When you price low, you will be asked to stay longer and if you truly care about your work, you will stay longer and when you divide what you charged into an hourly rate, including editing, you will actually lose money. The second shooter in today’s environment is practically mandatory. We not only shoot weddings, but all events, along with Videography/live streaming and it has become more apparent in our business model to outsource some of our editing to meet deadlines and to become more efficient especially now having city contracts.
We have been through what KJ described and you will become disappointed with yourself and even contemplate quitting. The people that you get in on the cheap will always want more for less and they won’t be long term clients, but the expectation by them will be the same as your more expensive clients. Never cut yourself short. Because in the long run, you will hate yourself for it. Let your work and professionalism speak for itself. If you noticed KJ said, the price is the price, which sets expectations for both her and the client.
Thanks so much Sid!!
Hey Katelyn, always very insightful to watch one of your videos. While watching thi I was wondering what is the lighting setup for your youtube videos because it is just sooo pleasant.
That would be a Tyler questions! He sets all that up!
Thank you so much! Your content is so refreshing 😁
Thanks so much!!! That is so encouraging!
I needed this, thank you!
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for making this video. Your channel is so helpful!
Thanks so much Kindra! That is very encouraging!
Who stays longer for free?! If I'm booked for 8 hours and they want me to stay an additional two hours to fit everything in, those two hours are added to the final bill. I would've never thought of just staying longer for free. Honestly, I'm shocked people do that. Don't! This is your valuable time (and money!). Make sure your contract reflects that additional hours will have to be paid!
Agree! I make it very clear on our Zoom dates that if anything goes over time by a hour...I'll send an invoice. They're fully aware. Communication and clarity is so very helpful to them
Thanks for watching!
i do exactly that and it works fine. you need a certain finesse with your clients and dont sell yourself short, than its not really a problem.
What wonderful information you've provided. Simple and clear and I totally understand your digital file offer. I've been a second shooter a few times (it was hard work and educational) and I have one question: Do you offer a certain number of edited photos on your digital file?
We tell the client we provide 80-100 images per hour of shooting but typically deliver 1000-1200 images per wedding day. Under promise over deliver!
Makes a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching Evan!!
This was great!!!! Thank you!
Glad you liked it!
Intersting discussion and points. Love the lighting and setup. What mic are you using for this video?
Thanks! We use the Audio-Technica AT4053b! -Ty
@@KatelynJames i would love to have you on my podcast one day called vahagraphy talk. We can talk about wedding photography business and such. would make for an interesting talk. I just had Jared Polin on.
Thank you! Very helpful 😄😄
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you. We had a couple "stressful" situations.
The struggle is real!
Hey Katelyn! I love that you offer a complimentary engagement session with your solo wedding package to give you the chance to get to know your clients and for them to get a feel for your workflow prior to the wedding to make the day of smoother. I just started a photography business, so I don’t have a lot of clients yet. I’m pretty new to everything, so I don’t feel like it is realistic/profitable for me to offer a free engagement session at the moment. However, I shot a wedding blindly recently, meaning I met the client the day of. I don’t want to be unkind, but without going into detail, I ended up in a bit of an uncomfortable situation. It made me reconsider my way of going about things. How would you suggest I go about meeting the client prior to the wedding? Should I require a meeting prior to the wedding to discuss details? Also, as far as organization goes, I find that some couples struggle with that, however, I value vision. Do you think it would be beneficial to have the client write out a rough draft of wedding day in order to make sure that I know the flow of things and understand their vision and what they’re expecting of me? I don’t want to scare clients away by requiring these things, but sometimes I feel like the wedding day itself is chaotic and I don’t want to be jumping through hoops to meet expectations that I didn’t realize I was meant to meet. Again, I want to give my clients the very best, but I’m realizing that I am lacking in some aspects of organization due to my lack of experience on the business side of things.
Thanks for watching!
Yes, you definitely need to meet with them ahead of time!!!!
I don't even book them without a meeting, preferably in person, but at the very least, on the phone.
When they inquire, I always include in my reply, "Let's get together, you can tell me what you have in mind for your day, I'll show you what I have to offer, and we'll see if we're a good fit."
I do a photo shoot with them ahead of time, even if they've already had an engagement session with another photographer. It helps us get comfortable together in so many ways. But it can also be an opportunity to find out some things that you wouldn't want to wait until their wedding day to find out.
One example: At their engagement session I found out the bride had a deformed right hand. I hadn't noticed it yet but when posing them holding hands, she shyly asked her groom, "Should I tell her?" It was something that we were able to chat about and get comfortable with months before the wedding. (She was self-conscious enough about it that she even asked the officiant if it would be OK to reverse the traditional sides that bride/groom stand at the ceremony - so her left hand would face the guests, rather than her right.)
If I had waited until the wedding day, she would have had to be explaining to me why she didn't want posed certain ways, etc. -- and I want my brides to feel GORGEOUS on their wedding day, not focusing on their self-perceived flaws!!!!
Hi Katelyn, Just a couple of quick questions. I have just about all your courses except the Pricing Guide because I do not have the software. My question is, how do you respond when a potential client loves your package, but wants to remove the engagement session and drop the cost, or the second shooter or wants a discount?
We know they are not a good fit....We do not offer to discount it.
Absolutely spot on.
Thanks Jared!
I love this!! Now I wonder how I can adapt this for my wedding cake business?!
Interesting!! Let me know if you have questions!
I loooooove your shirt!!!
Thanks so much!!
So much wisdom. Thank you.
You are so welcome! Thanks for watching!!
I haven't stayed for free or been asked to. I've had clients add on the day of, BUT boy have I had lots of clients asking me to do way too much in too little time with improper wedding planning...
Totally understand!
My particular city tends to have much shorter weddings. Where the bride gets ready at their hotel and then only on location for about 3 hours. Most of the weddings I have done have been extremely laid back as well. Where they just wanted the core elements captured. I tend to be extremely efficient so knocking those out in 3 hours isn't that difficult for me. I actually did a 3 hour and a two hour wedding yesterday.
How do you represent this in your website?😊
Really great wisdom!!
Glad you enjoyed it
Is that all natural light in there? You video is lit beautifully.
I wish!! Ty has a massive light on me!
I agree with this approach. I'm getting ready to start doing weddings for money, and my first thought was, I'm spending a day on this regardless of the time I'm actually there shooting. No point in offering partial days for less money. I can't fill that time with anything else. It's just giving up money and restricting what I can do. Charge for extras hours, sure. Do less than 8 hours, no.
I've also given in on the digital files. It's what most people want. I hate digital files. No guarantee they'll print them well, or at all. I'm thinking of including some "mandatory" prints with the files. I'm also thinking of including affordable prints that still make a profit, but don't need a massive markup since I'll already have my profit baked into my base offering. The idea of doing all that work only to have people viewing the images a phone kills me. Low res social media images, sure. Whipping out a phone to show house guests wedding pictures, please no.
This was so helpful!!!!
So glad to hear that!
I have a question about the complementary engagement shoot. If I understand correctly, it is only complementary because they are booking you for the wedding. So, if they do the engagement shoot and do not use you for the wedding, they do have to pay for the engagement session right?
I love This! More business content please!
I’ve always struggled with upselling to full day weddings. This makes so much more sense.
Thanks for watching!! We will do more business content!
thank you i needed to hear this
Thanks for watching!