Nissan's Worst Nightmare
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- Опубликовано: 25 ноя 2024
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The mid 1990’s witnessed the re-birth of GT class racing, much to the dismay of many manufacturer’s accounting departments. In a bid to keep manufacturers and viewers happy, Japan’s JGTC championship decided to re-invent what it meant to race Gran Turismo. As it happened, just a couple of years prior, Toyota had released their newest flagship sports car, and you’ll never guess what they did with it…
Written by: Fred Knight
Edited by: JD Minny ( @jdminny )
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or use discount code "automobilistic" for 10% off! Video correction: at 7:46 I say 3jz instead of 2jz... oops
I understand why, the 4 cylinders is a 3S.
Love ur vids, can I ask for a request to make a video about Honda HSV-010, a car in JGTC/Super GT that was also legendary, but never became road legal. Thx
Now do a similar video but with the R34 Skyline from Castrol or Penzoil, please.
3jz = b58
Nahhhh what do you know that we don't? Toyota has a secret 3jz motor? Come clean bro we all family here. Where Yota keeping the 3jz at? I need a few for Race Wars, heard some punk got Spoon engines and T66 turbos.
this really does show that the early days of the JGTC really were the wild west considering there were McLaren F1's, Ferrari F40's and a Porsche 962 all competing alongside home grown Japanese sports cars. What a time for GT racing.
And the cars from Japan out preformed them. It reliability if not speed. The Jap cars always finished. A supra twin turbo is forged as standard. Tuners was forging cars to match performance on a factory forged supra. No matter what aftermarket forged internal upgrades won’t match the reliability of a forged oem dealership car. They come with warranty so made bomb proof
Isbzidjd8s😅😅😅
My dude, you should learn about IMSA GT.
that's pretty much the case for most major series in the 1990s following the end of Group C racing
and what's mental is these v8 supercars were being beaten by a 2ltr i4 engine haha
I love how everybody except for Toyota were using the engines their cars were actually sold with
The other toyotas were using the engines they came with buddy.
@@subarollano Toyota cheated and never used that trash 2 j z
@@SWB_mikeIt's not cheating when it is what the regulation allows.
Simple, the lightest way to 500hp was the best. When you are racing in an HP limited class you have to win with less weight and or better aero.
thats right, it doesnt matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winnings winning@@AbrahamArthemius
Once upon a time JGTC came to Southern California for an exhibition race. It was held at Fontana in 2004 or 2005. I have attended many races from F1 to LeMans but this race had me goosebumpy and making engine noises for days after.
JGTC really was a special moment in racing history huh
Yep. DTM also in 1990s.
Tbh the attempted Mclaren nerfs were to ensure a Japanese manufacturer would always win. They weren't about to let the Mclaren F1 beat them in their own country.
a million dollar supercar shouldn't have been on the same track as 25K dollar sports cars anyways....
@@eclipsegst9419A supra definitely wasn't 25k though, they were 45k for a Rz manual one in the US at launch. Though sticker price was over 50k typically
@@eclipsegst9419but that car on track could BARELY be called a supra
Man, 2 stijn vids, a tyedye vid, and a countereefus vid in like 24 hours? So hype!!!
the holy trinity of racing documentaries
Can’t forget Aidan Millward!
@@brodiemiller2296 has he posted something?
We eating good
For real!
From what I've read, the punitive regulations impacting Maclaren were more about not wanting a non-Japanese company winning.
Pitting a million dollar supercar against sports cars that cost less than 30 thousand was never going to be balanced
@@eclipsegst9419The only cars in JGTC that cost under 30k were racing in GT300. The GT500 cars such as the Supra, R33, NSX were priced similarly to cars like the Porsche 911 Turbo, Ferrari 348 & Chevrolet Corvette Z06/Grand Sport. They are not cheap cars by any means, and the McLaren never cost a million new, it was 450k for a race-spec one.
It’s also worth noting the Supra this video focuses on was essentially a purpose built race chassis with a shell that looks like a Supra placed over it. It shares very little with the production car at all. Meanwhile, the McLaren is essentially the street car, but with the seating arrangement changed & an aero kit added on. It’s indicator lights are still there & can be reconnected to make it street legal.
@@Hydruss443 I don't think those cars cost much more than 30K back in the 90s. Maybe 40. The McLaren I just guessed honestly. Still a 10x more expensive base they were building the car from.
@@eclipsegst9419 The NSX went on sale in 1995 at 70k, 4k less than the equivalent Ferrari & 2.5k more than the closest spec Porsche 911. Can’t find anything on the Supra & R33 but it’s safe to assume they were around the same, maybe slightly lower.
The R33, McLaren, NSX, Diablo & Porsche 911 all used the same chassis as the road car in JGTC. The Supra & Dodge Viper did not, and were using purpose built race platforms instead.
@@Hydruss443supra and Gtr were around the 50k mark IIRC. They were less than the nsx for sure
The GTR that supra once knew is a new nightmare. Godzilla has EVOLVED.
In Germany Toyota dropped the gentlemens' agreement of official ~280hp from the beginning and listed the A80 with 330PS right from the dealer.
I remember this from the 90s, there was always a feeling that they pushed the McLarens out because they wanted a Japanese built winner
Certainly possible that there's some truth to this, but impossible to say definitively
@@automobilisticthat Japanese pride has costed them many times in motorsports. Costed them a few Le Mans wins......
@@MiguelGarcia-vj7oo Well the Japanese pride has won them consecutive wins at 24 hours of Le Mans until the governing bodies decided to rig it for Ferrari by imposing last minute balance changes on Toyota in 2023. 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, and 2022 consecutive Le Mans wins.
Let's not forget that most of the top "Euro" brands pulled out of Le Mans after Diesel gate because we all know they're just cheaters.
@automobilistic lol. I guess if they don't explicitly say it then it can't be true, even if all evidence points to the xenophobic behaviors of the Japanese culture coming into play.
@@ShinM. Too bad they weren't as xenophobic as the Eurogheys when it came to making peace with their neighbors. That's why they've been at war with each other and the cause of every World War since forever.
Explain to us why there are so many countries within a small area in Europe. Why are they always at war with each other? Why are there so many languages within a small space?
Despite both being iron blocks, the 3S is only two thirds the size of the 2J. The mass saving would have been huge, neither unit would struggle to make the reliable horsepower requirements over a large enough portion of the rev range. The ability to then place that mass placed low down and to the back of the space frame to meet minimum weight requirements would be such a huge advantage that the 4-cylinder approach is probably the biggest no brainier Toyota had.
It's funny how you mentioned Gran Turismo, I just finished your video about the Toyota GT-ONE thinking I was relieving my early years of GT! Anyway, great video on the Tom's Supra. Yet another GT throwback.
I remember driving 200 laps for a castrol car in Gran Turismo 2
Just want to acknowledge the Gran Turismo-esque music. A touch of class on a high quality video. Subbed!
Arguably the most famous car from a computer game, it took a fair few rounds of the Sunday cup to buy one I can tell you that 😅
I'm thinking that title goes to the XJ220...
Been there, done that 😂😂😂
@@Blas4ublasphemy how have you come to that conclusion?
@damarfadlan9251 I don’t agree with this.
4 million times of Sunday Cups ithink it was then you get the 276 bhp
This is not the story of how the Supra became dominant in racing. This is the story of how a regulating body killed every competitor that wasn't a toyota.
Thank you. Finally someone that understands also the supra was not that popular when it released and most people who were in there 20's when the supra released agree that the 300zx looked better as an overall car and was slower it wasn't intill people started "modding" it and started to realize how capable the engine was. are gen sees supra and thinks "god car" old people see it as "that piece of shit is that fast" also "RICE" and "modding" are two completely different things. If you see a modded supra take out a stock lambo doesn't mean the lambo is slow it just stock. do the same amount of work you did on a supra on a lambo and the supra will not stand a chance and a stock supra vs a stock lambo, we know how that's ending. thats why i say "know the difference" also RICE stand for Racing Inspired Cosmetic Enhancements so if it doesn't make your cars performance better its a RICE mod 😂 doesn't mater what it is
Thank you we need more people that understand.
@@JoseSanchez-iu3do🍻
Eh, i think they would have been fine with Honda too, they just wanted someone to take down Nissan with something other than a million dollar supercar.
Race the rulebook,not the other cars. -Yunic
For me personally I always associate the Mark III Supra with Gran Turismo as well. It was my first starter car in GT1 and my go to starter in the others as well.
Man i always wondered what Tom’s meant. Raced many of them in Gran Turismo haha
The thing I love about his videos is that the aspect ratio of every video is set small, imitating the old school television screen.
Denso SARD is my favorite, but Castrol Tom's is far more iconic
Au Cerumo!
FET sport too
esso
Loctite Mugen NSX
Loved them all while playing gran turismo 3 !
this seems like one of those, mild, slightly less interesting historical facts about the supra.
it feels like the only reason the 4th gen supra was as good as it was in that 1 specific class of racing, wasn't because it was good or great, but because the rest was just hampered down by all the additional rules/regulations.
not that that's a bad thing mind you, just that it seems the only thing that made it shine was its aerodynamic shape more than anything.
probably just me though.
I suppose the reason why the Mk4 supra is popular is mostly due to media. Since Toyota has manufactured a lot better sporty cars (MR2, Celica GT4s, and a couple others). The way I look at it the 2JZ is the supras blessing but also a curse as much as the tuner side of me likes how reliable and how much power it can make, it is just to heavy to do anything outside of drag racing and drifting.
Gran Turismo introduced us to these beauties
McLaren F1 GTR : *Hold my beer*
For some context, a McLaren F1 somehow managed to enter to compete in the GT500 JGTC Tournament, and as expected, it just demolished every other race car in the track
So as long as the races were heavily regulated toyota had a chance lol
nissans worst nightmare
is a 1000hp Golf Mk1
I always wondered why they didn’t use the legendary 2J in the race cars. Until I read up and realized that a turbo 2JZ weighs as much as a Ford Boss 429. With much worse weight distribution. 😅
2JZs also tend to overheat when pushed hard for a while (ie. an actual race) hence why you barely see these engines used outside of drag racing or drifting.
Lovely video here IMHO.
Would love to see videos about the Celica and 300ZX GTO - both were absolute monsters.
I loved going to Tom’s garage. They had some upgrade and NOS parts for my old Starlet race car. 😎 flat black with a fluorescent stripe I changed every month.
The history makes it seems like the A80 Supra wasn't a race winning car at all. Only the BoP regulations were made stringent enough to let it win.
this video was just objectively, phenomenal. from your extremely well worded narrative to the story of toyotas accomplishments, it was a great watch.
Watching the gt-r vid now. I do like touring cars that stay close to the production car. Sadly, it always evolves into BoP and then into a silhouette class.
If ‘win on Sunday, sell on Monday’ is the thing, why would you compete in a class with prototypes? I’m buying a roadcar after all, not some specially built rocketship.
Or Red Bull. How does competing in any sports at all sell energy drinks? I don’t get it, although it obviously works. But with RB I suspect they actually have the passion for it, Mateschitz surely had the bug.
I was always a group N fan, especially in rallies. You could buy that exact car that you saw competing. Apart from the bare racing necessities, it was THE car
It's the same logic behind companies producing supercars alongside regular family cars. Works off a marketing concept called the Halo Effect, where a positive view of one product leads to positive views of other products by the same company. You're not just looking to sell more of the model you're racing, you're looking to sell more of all the models in your range.
This scratches the Gran Turismo 2-itch real good
The 1997 Toms Supra makes me remembering GT5.
I remember seeing this on GT1 for the 1st time and had one of the most weirdest "stiff stick" for cars at the age of 13.
The Z32 kicked the Supra's ass in the racing circuit, nevermind the R34. The Supra is a solid car, but c'mon the Z32 was ripping back then.
Lmaooo. Nissan won more races and championships than the supra. By far. 😆😆
I mean sure the regulations were based on a BoP system, but it's interesting how the last non-Japanese car to win the GT500 title got hit so hard by regulations the team withdrew from the series...
Because they knew the Mac is a one-hit wonder, and the other makes would very quickly catch up. See the yellow Mac Longtail, it wasn't competitive, yet the NSX was.
They were pitting their million dollar supercar against sports cars that cost 20-30 thousand dollars... So yea they had to do something to balance that out.
McLaren shouldn’t even have been a part of the JAPANESE Grand Touring Championship to begin with…
Neither should other non-japanese brands!
Unpopular opinion ...the only reason these cars are remembered is because of Gran Tourismo. The R32 and R33 had the legs on the Supra for most of the decade, it took a BOP rule change for it to win anything, then when it did it couldnt do it again for 98. Same status as the Mazda 787b winning LeMans, it got so lucky, it was as slow as a carthorse, and by the grace of god (and some great sympathetic driving) didnt grenade itself in the 24 hours.
The 787B winning because its engine was more reliable in the conditions of Le Mans isn't "getting lucky", its part of the whole spirit of endurance racing, in my opinion. Unlike reciprocating engines, rotary engines respond better to being pushed hard, meaning they're pretty well suited for a track like the Circuit de la Sarthe. 85% of that track's 13.6km is spent on full throttle, and the R26B wouldn't struggle with that as much as a similarly powered reciprocating engine would.
@@edwardking9359it is definitely a lucky win, if they are known for reliability then they should have won more because they are "reliable" as you said
@@edwardking9359 It wasn't more reliable because the Pistons engines were less reliable, it was reliable because everyone else had to carry 200 kg extra ballast and Puegot had to use a overly complex 3.0 Liter F1 designed Engine as pushed forward by Bernie Ecclestone, the same reason why everyone else couldn't start in 91 with their new F1 tech cars.
The Mazda was a turd in terms of pace, it also ran on lower HP levels because anything above that would make it unreliable, those same cars that it beat in 91 were the same ones that demolished it in 90 by several laps.
@jmdriftboy They're not known for outright reliability, only that they don't suffer quite as much when on full throttle for long periods. And they didn't have the overall pace of the other cars. But for one race, it was enough. The mulsanne straight at Le Mans was 6km of dead straight road where the engines were pushed to their absolute limits, and the rotary shone then.
This dude has a great radio/t.v voice
The Gran Turismo 3 A-Spec intro with this thing was a beauty
Are you gonna go my way
@@Giratina575No, I don't swing that way.
7:45 - "3JZ" engine? Did he misspeak or is there JZ block generation that I'm unaware of?
Nah type in the script, there's no such thing as a 3JZ
I'm in Japan working as a Ferrari mechanic and I work the challenge races here. I talk regularly with Seiji Ara at the races as he is an instructor. He drove the TOM'S Supra in 2000. I had to tell him I (as a Mazda fan) loved the Amemiya Aspara Drink RX-7. All he could say was they sounded great haha.
All RE Amemiya cars are drool worth 🤤🤤🤤
I need 3sgt for my caldina gtt 🤣🤣🤣
Gran turismo made me fall in love with this class of racecars.
Ah yes Castrol Tom's Supra. One of the best JGTC cars I've ever raced in Gran Turismo 2 alongside the Mugen NSX's 🫠😆👍
I really need to learn more about GT racing I'm just getting into SIM racing and the only thing I know is street racing and drifting. I really want to dig into the heritage of actual sanctioned racing.
This Supra is far more better than Paul Walker's fast and furious Supra!!
You mean "far better".
Didn't know Jez did youtube now. Good stuff, nice video
great vid , would love to see one with the autobacs nsx
At the start of the video I kept thinking it was just like playing the early versions of Gran Turismo. Lol. Enjoy your videos. Thanks.
2JZ was only popular from F&F. Otherwise, original sales for it were garbage. the R32 mopped the floor on it's release until Group A move on. When Toyota finally came out with the 2JZ they had to increase engine displacement to compete. Atleast Nissan has a true successor with the VR. Toyota seems to have disappeared, even after blowing all that money with the LFA.
Since then, no manufacturer ever did engines so tunable and reliable as the RB26 and 2JZ. They actually competed going the other way around, making them unreliable after 100k and not so tunable.
Toyota didn’t use 2JZs in JGTC they used 4 cylinders
Never realised they changed to the corolla engine, always learn something new whenever watching! Yet again another cracking video!
The 3sgte never came in a Corolla from factory, it was in mr2, celica gt4 and caldinas but never a Corolla
Corolla WRC car
@@automobilistic
Strange you used Corolla WRC as the "donor" of the engine and not the iconic GT-Four Celica WRC. 3S-GTE could be had in the road going Celica along side the N/A 3S-GE.
GT-Four is what made that engine iconic. Much like the Pikes Peak winning Celica.
Because the Corolla was the car Toyota were running in 1997. I could have gone in-depth on the history of the engine, but historically I have found that the wider audience loses interest when I take a tangent like that. Perhaps this time I glossed over too much, I'll bear it in mind form next time
@automobilistic I feel like you could still kinda gloss over the exact details, but talk about how while the original 2JZ supra engine has something of a reputation, the 3S-GTE has its own history in motorsport. Doesn't really detract from the video that it isn't there, but would have been cool.
Need a vid about that f40 fr
stay tuned...
@@automobilistic :)
That high reving turbo 4 let it eat corners and come out of em HARD
tbh today the mk3 supra looks infinitely better than the mk4 😎
but that goes for almost all 80's performance cars looking superior to their 90's counterparts
mr2 aw11 > sw20
rx7 fc > fd
supra mk3 > mk4
skyline R31 > R32 > R34 > R33
soarer Z20 > Z30
worst nightmare is a bit of a exaggeration considering the supra only won 2x in the manufacturers' championship and 2x in the drivers championship. The skyline won 5x times in manufacturers championship and 7x in the drivers. The supra wasn't very successful in racing.
Awesome video, with incredible footage, references and background music. What pity me is to know that Senda Hi-Land racetrack (and dragstrip, a VERY famous one) were destroyed to place here a stupid solar panel field, that could have been placed everywhere else, but instead..... 😞😞😞
The cheaters dream car with hidden extra air inlets.
Brilliant as always
Enjoyable despite the tiny mistakes. Thanks and keep up the good work.
Too bad the 1 billion supra kiddies made me hate the supra
Naaah.. is this a clickbait? 😁 Because with all those championships and trophies Nissan had over other makes including toyota (and supra), thanks to their GT-Rs. I’d say Nissan is still their, all makers’, worst nightmare.
And thats the truth,with some cheese on it…aint no meatloaf on these buns
Yeah whatever 😢cry baby
The mk3 was so much better looking than the blancmange mk4, I owned a mk3 so I may be biased
It was a good looking car, I can understand the appeal. But by the early 90s it wasn't very "modern"
@@automobilistic granted but I owned mine in 2006 when it was ''kinda retro'....
LINKS TO MUSIC USED TOWARDS THEN END OF VID?
Now do a similar video but with the R34 Skyline from Castrol or Penzoil, please.
Nissans worst nightmare was the regulations it seems.
So first, Nissan as the reigning champs get screwed by the rules, then McLaren as the reigning champs get screwed by the rules as well.
If anything i just lost a massive amount of respect for both Toyota, which without custom rules that fit them perfectly, would be nowhere near a podium, and JGTC in general, which changed the rules so much and so often that even the reigning champions of the previous year, chose to leave the competition altogether, than suffer all those suffocating restrictions bull$hit. Wow, and here i thought Toyota was just good, it turns out they just had the competition tailored to their needs.
Toyota screwed everyone in the WRC too before they were caught and banned..
An underrated car
💀
Are you being serious or nah?
@@afilleduptaco sarcasm
Lmao
I am a huge Supra fan, but the title seems a bit exaggerated for a one year dominance. But maybe I was paying more attention to my quesadilla than the video.
i know no one cares. but i skate and my board has this exact car on it!!!
I appreciate you covering the JTCC history because I was always interested in knowing the history of these cars I know so well in the 90's from Grand Tourismo, but in America. Our television channel Speedvision only covered the European , Australian and American GT series. And rarely mentioned Japanese events.
8:36 Nostalgia hits hard with that music
Wait that voice is coming outta that skinny kid??? Mind blown
using the i-4 made sense considering the power regulations... if you cant use the bigger heavier 2j to its full potential its really just a waste...
Agreed
So the supra was in absolutely no way, shape or form "Nissan's nightmare". Nissan still annihilated Toyota
nah toyota is better and always will be, nissan will always be the little brother.
So lets be clear about something here. Supras whether on the street or on the track are still very capable cars. We dont have to tell you how the quaility over exudes anything Nissan has produced. Now I will tell you the new Skyline GTR is the best yet but even that older Mk3 and the Mk4 are still very capable platforms that once harnessed can become real real nightmares.
Facts lmao
@@kmena05 Nissan has been mopping the floor with Toyotas since the 1960s mate. Honda also joined later in mopping the floor with Toyotas. Every decade where Nissan and Toyota had a flagship sportscar, the Nissan always outperformed the Toyota..
@@boikanyoonneng9170Toyota and Honda were always the better brands!
Still are!
So basically they kept changing the rules so that the Supra can compete against the GTR LOL LOSERS LOL GTR FTW!!!!
The music in the background is spectacular, especially at 9:40
Yes! A Jgtc documentary!
Yes, please!
Much to the dismay of many OEMs accounting departments 😂
Good video. I learned most of what I know about cars from video games, so I recognise the TOMS supra as iconic despite not knowing it's history.
I appreciate a British RUclipsr that can pronounce "th".
But your sign-out needs work. Instead of robotically saying "Good. Bye.", how about; "Till next time, god speed!" Or "See you at the finish line!" It can be corny, but all of my favourite youtubers have a memorable sign-out..
three jay zed...
el legendado...
McLaren was still using Nissan parts in production and probably in racing also
"The supra took the mantle of performance...to keep racing enthusiasts happy...but was missing a good racing pedigree" This is my time to remind you that the celica has more racing wins than the supra does. Even today.
It's possibly my favourite Toyota ever I think, Great Video!
Imagine my suprise tht the famous castrol toms supra from my favourite game is NOT EVEN USE A FCKING SUPRA ENGINE
Kids: It has to win, it’s a Supra!
At 7:45 did you say 3jz LMAO
epic Alpaca hairdo
I'll always love the au cerumo supra more, but I cant deny how iconic the Tom's Supra is
Nah, Nissan’s worst nightmare back then was the accounting department.
The gt500 body is the best looking mk4 body
Someone can tell me wich song is in the background from min 9:25?
THIS IS MY TYPA VIDEO
It seems to me that the best option is the 12V pump with a hand pump as a backup.
Keep up like this bro its a good video
"276 hp"
Ah, the gentleman's agreement hp. It was actually 310 to 330 hp for the RZ model.
true haha
Same thing with the r34 gtr as well 330 hp i believe
276 hp to the wheels... that's how they tricked the agreement. NSX was the same, there where dyno tests of the NSX giving 340ish hp stock
@@lotarrrrr 340 on the nsx...holy cow
It's what BMW does, they give you HP to the wheels instead of the flywheel. Which is why every BMW car as well as the new Supra has more power than rated
Nice shades, breh....😂
Hold up this supra was found abandoned
Never would have guessed that a championship-winning mk 4 Supra would be lacking a 2JZ under the hood! Interesting video👍