YouTubers and Spot Burning
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- Spot burning on RUclips. Is it unethical? What should RUclipsrs take into account when giving out a fishing location? Let's talk! #fishing #fishingethics
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This is such a great topic and a difficult one to take on. I'm like you I fall in the middle taking into account the biology of the fishery, the social impacts, and infrastructure. It's a tough line to walk.
Thanks Tyler! Seems like we think about it very similarly, as you said. For what it's worth I consider you a little more secretive than me on location, which is commendable. Totally agree on the tight line to walk. I'm sure I've errored over the years.
Round table topic?
As Tyler has mentioned in a few videos, fisheries management often kills waters as well. There are many factors. A middle ground, I think, is good.
One of the hardest decisions in my whole life is this: which channel do I love more, WaFishQuest, or Spilt Milt! Let's just call it a TIE, and leave it at that.
I share when asked. It feels more like the actions of a "Sportsman or Gentleman" to do so. I enjoy knowing I may have contributed to their success. How a person chooses to use the information is up to them.
Secret locations are sometimes justified in the name of "Preserving the Fish & Wildlife" but ultimately it seems more "Selfish" than anything else. The more secret spots someone has, the less likely I am to be associated.
Thanks Mike! That is a gentlemenly... Gentlemanly?... Act for sure! Philosophically, I can't help but feel personally responsible if someone trashes the hole or snags a bunch of fish. But that's me. (and, I believe both has happened... The snagging for sure, and that stuck with me).
I've been in the fishing tackle industry majority of my working life Mid (90's-2017) My goal has always been to get people on fish and help them learn how to catch them and be successful. Sharing spots and communication are a part of that game. I have a ton of professional fishing guides who are my friends. They all share information between themselves. Their clients get to learn their spots.We as anglers need to welcome new people into the sport and help to grow it. The more people we have involved in the sport, the better chance we have to fight for keeping our angling opportunities. This state currently is losing opportunity every year since I've been here (another issue in the political arena)
Everyone learned from someone, no one owns a spot and in Washington there are a ton of places to fish. I will however as youtuber respect someone's wishes if they are bringing me to a special spot and ask me not to share it. Most of the time I go by myself and bring my friends along. Nice video my friend.
Thanks Jerry! The angler recruitment is a great point. Tight lines!
Great topic! This is such a large, semi unspoken issue on youtube but I've never seen a dedicated video on the subject. I can say I'm 85% in the "don't say where you are" camp. For me, it's about respecting the locals. Thanks for the video
Well put Tim! That's a great point. I've only heard you say where you are usually in general on popular bodies of water. I decided to do the video because I noticed there wasn't much content on it out there. Thanks a ton for your perspective!
Well put. WDFW list all the lowland lakes and what fish are commonly caught there. The specifics of where, when, and how to fish within the boundaries of each of those lakes, or any other body of water, should be part of the journey of discovery that drives the passion. I like your channel because it looks like you are having fun which is important to me. Not the location details. I’d still love to collaborate on an etiquette video with you. Humorous and informative for beginners on how to read a situation where someone is already in the spot when you arrive. CHEERS BLAKE and I hope you have a great 2023!!
I'm still game. It's a good idea for a video. I really appreciate the point about the lowland lakes Troy! Makes me feel better about some lowland lakes I've name dropped. Thank you Troy!
Oregon DFW has the same feature. ODFW even has a "Places to fish within one hour of ____" for Portland, Salem, and Eugene.
When it comes to salmon and steelhead (only exception would be Puget sound salmon although I won’t give up the exact drag/how I fish it) I believe things should be kept secret because many people put in the hard work or have lineage at certain places. The internet has ruined a lot of places and pissed off a lot of people that grew up/or worked hard at learning particular places. Too many people expect others to give up their hard learned info to them because they “moved to Washington” or “payed for their fishing license” lol good point to address Blake, I appreciate your take on the issue
Thanks Captain Conor! Great points. I am always pretty upset WDFW doesn't mail me free fish when I buy my license!
All good points, and I'd argue that even your cons could be debated (much like your pros). It all depends on perspective. Your points to consider are exactly what I go through in my mind before I decide to share about a location. One of points that you mention is the trash left behind by other people. To be honest, that happens everywhere. I always pack a trash bag when I go out on hikes or fishing, just so I can pick up trash. We are stewards of this land, not separate from it.
As far as the something to add, it is more of a something to consider: merely showing a location can be enough to blow it out. I've watched RUclips videos on the Oregon coast that show very little features, but because I know the area really well, I know exactly where they are. Granted, if you are able to ID a location based off from a video, you already know it pretty well.
Maybe, as a RUclipsr, you can address the beginner by teaching scouting through a series of videos? If you don't want to take that on, there are other RUclipsrs that have created paid courses to address that need, exactly. If you'd like, I can refer them in my comments, but will keep it to myself in case you decide to go down this route.
Wow, that ended up being really long winded. Sorry about that, but thanks (as always) for sharing!
Thanks for the thoughtful comment Jarom! You're always welcome to post resources in the comments. Maybe at some point I'll do that, but more likely I'd incorporate scouting into a different video. Like lay it into a video I think might get a lot of views.
This is a great topic of discussion and one that can rattle quite a few folks. Not sure why though since folks have been fishing these waters for years way before most all of us and our ancestors arrived here. My goal is to educate, protect & preserve what we have while it’s still here for us to enjoy. 🐕🦀🐕
Well said, Blake. I'm in the same camp as you when river fishing. I also have no problem telling others about put and take fiseries.
Thanks a ton Sound Fishing! I totally agree about the put and take. It's what they're there for. I love the logo. Is that new-ish?
Yes, I agree with your stance on spot burning. It's a touchy subject for sure! I'd say teaching a technique and a rough showing of the area you are fishing is more I'mpotand than just handing the person the keys to your spot.
Thanks Kayden! I tend to agree (with both you and myself)!
I will share with people if I talk to them and get a good vibe from them. I try my best to take them to the spots too and give them a better appreciation for the spot.. Plus it's a good excuse to get out on an adventure.
I do think doing videos on "How to..." Would be a good thing to do for your channel!
Thanks a ton for the feedback Zachary! I appreciate it!
Awesome topic, this is a major hot button for a lot of anglers everywhere! There is so much to consider, our world is overloaded with instant gratification, the pursuit is a apart of the experience.
Well said WCFP! "The pursuit is a part of the experience."
If I see you on the water I have very few secrets. Info shared online is more vague. Great considerations for local infrastructure and biology/carrying capacity.
Thanks TharoxSmash!! I'm often the same way. Especially if I see someone struggling on the water. It is nice to put people on fish IRL.
Good info for all fisherman 🎣 fish on
Fish on Renown!
This happens with many outdoor spots now. Fishing, Hiking, Mt biking, Dirt Biking, etc etc etc..... There is a balance to be had, but specifics could be kept quiet, but "in the area" vaguely works I think. Half the fun is figuring out the "spots" on your own as well.
TOTALLY agree. I don't think I got that across in this video. It takes away some of the adventure, some of the triumph, if you don't have to figure out anything on your own.
Swofford pond is no secret 😉. I appreciate you like other youtubers guarded but candid approach to fishing videos, definitely a balance. Your comment on when you do share fishing spots, it is a way to bring business to the local economy made me think it would be great to hear what your favorite places to eat are?
Thanks Bobby! I think I will incorporate eating out into more of my videos. Swofford is super interesting. Part of why I advertise it so freely (besides your request to fish it) is it has so much great bank access! Meets my personal criteria for "infastructure" because there is plenty of room.
Great topic, totally agree with your thinking.
Thanks a ton Jake!
Walking a tightrope for sure. Good to lean to the secretive side. Even though we might like to know a special location, we can respect not letting it be known. Appreciate the effort you put into your videos. Looking forward to the next.
Thanks as always Grant! I appreciate the feedback!
Lot of good sense and truths to what you say.
Thanks Steve! I appreciate it.
I fish a small lake near my house that its hidden and special rules and it is great. Everyone exclusively Cath and releases the trout in there and it is great. No poachers! The rivers are a big thing for me. I'll fish my favorite hole on my home river and Cath tons of salmon, then to me home and see someone on on RUclips telling everyone the name of the river and the exact spot. Then I go a few days later to find trash everywhere, and a pile of about 12 dead coho that were gutted and the people just killed the fish for the eggs.
Thank you for sharing Adam! Yes, that will make the blood boil. I've seen that happen to a few salmon holes too. When it comes to salmon river holes, unlike a lot of other spots, they stay burnt.
@@WAFishQuest Its a sad reality. The salmon are struggling enough as is and just to kill them for eggs illegally doesn't help at all.
Not a politically great topic to get stuck in, so I applaud you taking this on. You hit the pertinent topics. I am in the middle; I won't share a spot with someone unless I've met them. They might be great people, but what if they share the info with 23 of their "best friends" who sometimes would qualify for tickets from the WDFW? Its up to the person about sharing spots; I'd rather find things for myself. Its also per species and size of the spot. If its an interception fishery like a river, I don't see an issue, but what if its an isolated rock pinnacle with slow-growing rockfish? Negatively, a lot of it is some people also thinking that they are being crowded out of "their spot", as if they own it even if its on public lands. BTW, I love Westport also, but sorry, it wasn't you who got me to go there, that was way before WA Fish Quest.😁
I know you're a Westport OG Corbfisher! Ha ha. Thank you for the point about the Rockfish. Very true. That's much worse than just crowding a spot.
A couple years ago I was invited to go salmon fishing with a friend and his friend. When I got to his house he was visually agitated and made me swear up and down that I wouldn't tell anyone about his secret spot....Get in the truck and proceed to drive straight to a hatchery to combat fish for the day. Couldn't have had a bigger laugh when I got home that night.
I lol'd at this one! Yeah, combat zones def fall outside spot burning. Thanks Enscribe!
He wanted it hush hush because it’s already a zoo and doesn’t want it to be worse haha
Yeah rivers is tricky since it is so limited on space. I've seen rivers I've fish at get absolutely destroyed because it was recently featured on a RUclips video. How I kind of see it as. If you found the spots yourself, it up your own discretion if you wanna tell people about it. However, if someone else told you about the spot. You absolutely cannot tell anybody about it without permission from the person that initially told you about it. That how you end friendships and fishing partners.
I agree Khan! Part of the reason that it's hard for me to do a steelhead video is all of the spots I fish people either showed me at some point or they're kind of communal. I'll get around that someday, but feel like I would be betraying the trust of people who trusted me, if I put their spot on the interwebs. Thank you for the feedback!
I thank you for your knowledge. I tried to catch burbot last December. I was not successful but I was out there trying.
Bummer that they were not cooperating. I hope you at least enjoyed the night. So many stars on a clear winter night!
I think you have done a good job of finding a middle ground.
We have some great fisheries in our state, and many of them are funded by revenue from license sales, a lot of local businesses depend on $ from people fishing or enjoying the outdoors in general.
I think if you tubers show themselves picking up trash and generally how to respect these spots.
Maybe people will realize that these spots are really ours to keep up as a fishing/hunting/outdoor community.
Great point Headingsouth! I will incorporate litter pick up in my vids. I hope to go to more restaurants and stuff too for a sense of place.
Sometimes I wonder, if RUclipsrs would have taken the exact opposite approach, and filmed and called out every location, would there be so much available information out there that people would actually be more spread out and less crowded? I don’t know, I guess I play it safe and don’t call stuff out unless it’s already obvious where you are.
I agree but only if the state opened more fisheries to help spread out people
Interesting to ponder NW Open Season! Thanks for the what-if. 🤔
Thanks Blake! Good info for newbies like me.
Thanks Chelle! Just some things to ponder. 🤔
I keep it to myself but if you know you know. I won't advertise it.
And I know... That this is a great comment! Thanks Mr. Bank Fishermen!
I think there is a big difference between saltwater and freshwater. I am generally okay with publishing info regarding saltwater locations, to include shore fishing spots.
I generally dislike publishing freshwater river or lake names where the expectation is bank fishing. If it’s a large lake with either designed bank access or people will be fishing out of a boat, then I see little harm in publishing it.
People need to be able to watch a video and and learn of a place of two where they can go and be successful. Otherwise, the sport will fail to attract new people to the activity, local companies who design and create gear won’t have needed sales, and some communities lose out of tourism.
Good considerations David! I didn't think of smaller local bait/lure Cos. Thank you for the feedback!
It all depends on the fishery in my opinion. If I do ever mention a place to someone it is usually just a river name or general area in the saltwater.
Thanks SledorFish! I think that's a nice breadcrumb tho. Especially on salt, you can usually find a floatila.
As a salesperson in tackle, I believe I could teach someone new how to fish. I could tell them exactly the way I do it for a certain species and what fishery it could be. But that doesn't mean it'll work for them because they need to do their expierence on the water and learn how to fish that setup I sold them. As for places to fish, I don't like to say a certain names even in the store because how so restrictive the state is getting, but at the same time If I told them the Cowlitz River is good for coho. But at that point, the person has to do their own research or hunting to get their reward! I don't handout freebies lol. I am not a fan of social media for fishing anymore!
Hi Patrick! I like that approach. Hey, this gear and river is good. Go have an adventure! 🤙
This is great😊
Some selfish people even waste time to photoshop the background out of the fish photos they post/boast on the internet.
I will say those pictures where the background is all scribbled out, aren't very good pictures. Just take it front of a tree or a wall or something.
Just something else for people to bitch about. One more reason why they can't catch fish. Most people were told these spots they don't want others to know about and can't find new ones. People that have learned the skills you mentioned will always be able to find new ones. Lazy people that fish the same places every year wont. That said if someone tells you a spot you shouldn't tell others or you are betraying that person. RUclips is about helping people learn new skills. Teach them. 👍
Thanks Brett! Good points on skills/work ethic.
Everyone can do as they wish. If someone wants to tell everyone about a fishing hole then that is they right and if someone wants to keep everything secret then that is their right too. In a public spot no one has more rights than another.
Thanks Turkey2003! I will say my general philosophy in life is, just worry about yourself.
I wonder if it is a matter of personality? Those that will share and those that won't. If you share and those that don't get mad that you did. If I have something of what, I think, is of interest to someone I share it. Rather it is fishing, crafting, cooking, or whatever. I like to share. Others keep fishing spots, recipes, ideas close, never sharing.
Fish move around. Rivers, unless there is a dam on it, change course so spots disappear. Population has increased.
For 20 years I have wondered if there is spot burning? Since most fish are planted, excluding warm water species, more people catching means less fish. Should they restrict the amount of licenses sold?
Does one interview the people in the spot you worked hard for? The last two spots that I found out about were from a customer at where I work. Years ago I even got a spot while I was at the doctors office.
Therefore, I believe only a small amount of people chase spots from fishing RUclips or fishing reports internet sites or magazines.
My thought is that if someone is in your spot and you are mad about it, you want someone to blame and the internet site people are easy prey. Since you don't know that customer where I work. :)
Thanks Toni! I appreciate your willingness to share in general! A train of thought that I hadn't really considered.
To think that a public spot is somehow "yours" seems ridiculous. I do get your point of view. But as a fishing bait shop manager, I ALWAYS try to be an ambassador of the sport. I will always share my knowledge and locations to help get people and children interested. Its a big turn off to new people to be told "put in the work yourself". I get where they are coming from but its highly selfish in a sense and not a good look for our sport.
Imagine growing up fishing/hunting a place that has progressively gotten busier over your lifetime. No public land is owned by anyone, but understand the stress that comes from a place you grew up fishing becoming overcrowded because of the internet🙌🏻
Well said.
Selfish fishermen are not my kind of fishermen.
Love of one's fellow man is an admirable attribute. "What would Jesus do?", some people ask.....probably not be selfish and keep the spot all to himself, I'd imagine.
What bait shop do you own Dorian? I'll try to swing in sometime! And, to be clear, I don't think any public spot is somehow mine. ✌️
You are to be commended for taking the topic head on. Like others, I would favor withholding exact locations unless, as you note, it's built out to take more people. Perhaps a factor you didn't mention is population growth. Revealing any sensitive area in the Pacific Northwest, while so many people are moving here, puts that place at greater risk. You could be making videos that are just as good in the Midwest, for example, where the population there is actually decreasing -- and I would expect you would not be creating as much risk for those spots. As it is, you are making videos about fishing in a state where many new people are trying to figure out where -- exactly -- to fish.
GREAT point about the ever increasing population of Washington, Adam! I hear from people who move here the lack of fishing infrastructure too. For instance California has a huge population but a lot of high quality fishing peers too. Thanks a ton for the thoughtful comment!
I think it depends on the community based around a certain fish. As a catch and release carp angler I tell people the body of water I am on all the time even the exact spot I'm fishing. the more people who want to come to catch one the better. The places I fish are not well suited spots for bow anglers so I'm not worried about my spots being killed off by them. I do understand river anglers keeping honey holes very secret based on if they plan to harvest fish. If that spot is "burned it my never be the same again. It's a very interesting give and take. But giving a general name for a lake or river or specific area of hood canal or upper sound doesn't show the person how to fish it, that is something that has to be practiced to see what will work and what will not.
Type of community is a great point Brad! Very well said comment. Thank you!
I am about sharing .Name the lake or river it’s public information. You are a teacher of a public resource.Teach the method plus the ethics.Try to pass on respect for the resources. Washington has grown by millions of people so there are hundreds of new fisherman . If you base your videos on only a handful of places you are going to educate sportsman on those places so keep finding new places to share. Really enjoy your shows Thank you for sharing your dreams and time
Super appreciate the feedback Naneum! Great point about embedding the ethics.
you and I have fished many of the same waters for many years. I think I have come to many of the same "sharing" conclusions as you have. I still have my secrets, but love sharing awesome places with others too. Cant make everybody happy. -Sideburns
Thanks Sideburns! I agree. I am a lot more open in person. Because then at least you know who you are giving the info too. Put it on RUclips, and it's out there for the world. Although all WA Fish Quest fans are great... Once in a blue moon some ne'er-do-well watches one of my vids!!
"I hate people outside of my family, so I won't help them have a more enjoyable outdoor experience by sharing a great spot with them", is their attitude, arguably.
Thanks for the feedback D Sacrod! It's an interesting point... Keeping it all in the family. I read in a fishing forum once a really good debate on spot burning. Racism eventually got brought up in the sense that you're more likely to share spots with the people you hangout with, which in a rural community where I grew up, is likely to be another white guy. So if you're a person of color, you're a) less likely to know good spots and b) more likely to encounter territorial fisherman, just due to not being from 'round these parts. I know that wasn't the point you were making. But it reminded me of that forum debate. It was a take I had not previously considered. And something to chew on for sure.
@@WAFishQuest Apparently you're married to a person of color, so I'm going to respect your opinion on this matter quite a bit. You make a good point about race, and maybe systemic racism.
Keep up the great work - I'll be a subscriber for life! I can honestly say that I look forward to your new videos (and AnglerWest TV videos) more than any other provider on all of RUclips (until the Playboy Channel starts posting).
Lol, thanks D Sacrod. Oh, I'm a dumbie on race matters. I just thought it was an interesting take that I hadn't considered. That's all. : )
I giggle at the fact people are afraid to share bodies of water. Let me know some spots on the Cowlitz lol. I do see why people keep their honey holes to themselves but it doesn't hurt to help new anglers get on some fish
Thanks D Stor! Barrier Dam really isn't bad. Last few times I fished it, been there. I know it's a combat fishing zone. But far as combat zones go, it's pretty spread out. I hear your overall point though. It's a delicate balance.
@WA Fish Quest ill have to check it out. I've got a few towards the mouth of the cowlitz but the Lewis hasn't been to friendly lol.
My family lives 4 minutes from barrier yet if we want a spot to fish during peak season have to show up at 4 am:/ most of the anglers come from Seattle-Tacoma area. If the state managed more fisheries properly then it wouldn’t be a problem. I blame the state and not the fisherman! Cmon WDFW!
@CaptainConnorsAdventures I agree... our state does suck at management. I mean they literally killed off like 300 hatchery steelhead on the Lewis because they said they don't want them breeding with the wilds and threw them on the bank to be wasted.
Hey Blake. I'm finally back in Olympia. Someday we gotta hook up. My wife and I live near downtown/West Olympia. Hope you are well.
That's awesome Jason! Congratulations on making it back. For sure!
Ok. I think this is a total non-issue, and you addressed it yourself in your 2022 wrap up video! Your most viewed video is HOW to fish for black rockfish (or something to that effect). It is not "WHERE to fish for black rockfish". I come to your channel looking to learn about HOW to fish for different species, not WHERE. I mean, sure, spoon feeding me would be great, but I (and I would guess 40-60% of your viewrers? Don't know how to fish for perch in the ice. Or albacore on the coast. Or spot shrimp. It's more the diversity and knowledge and then I WILL go out on my own to figure out WHERE it works. .... case in point, a buddy and I followed your plug cut herring video to a T and went out randomly wherever (NOT on fish) and had a great time NOT catching anything. We'll learn that part, but the nuts and bolts technical sutff a) makes for easy, good videos and b) doesn't burn spots and c) gives me the base to at least try. Without the core mechanics, I'm not even going to go try. And then once I get amazing at fly fishing for steelhead, I'll go ahead and do that 7 day bushwack to the super secret wherever wherever.
You may think you need to do 301 and 401 material, but the 101 and 201 material plays.
thanks - love your channel!
Thanks a ton BelcherRS! Very thoughtful and kind. I super appreciate the feedback!
I think you strike a good balance Blake. No way should people be giving away secret or sacred spots found through a lot of time in the field, hard work, and dead days at other spots. Finding fishing spots can work very well when you find someone who is like minded and similar skills. You share some info with them and they with you. Needs to be a two way street. Equal work, equal value of the info. As you know I'm a long time subscriber and I'm curious your educational background and what you do for a living, in general terms. It seems to me you have a graduate degree and probably in the natural sciences. ??? 🙂
Thanks as always Capt Mike! You sum it up very succinctly. Much better than I could. Regarding my education and work, and I always figured I'd work at WDFW. I got a bachelor's in environmental studies. And went back to night school and got a master's in public administration. However, I could never get on at WDFW for the life of me. (No hard feelings at WDFW; probably for the best). I work for one of the other natural resource agencies as a manager. I've done a lot of restoration work, including in Puget Sound. But solid and hazardous waste management turned out to be my passion. And that is what I do. :)
@@WAFishQuest Excellent Blake. Well done. Seems I was pretty close. Feel free to delete if you aren't comfy with that level of detail "in public" :-)