As a former Top Ten ATP Player I would use all various slices in different situations with different goals. Height of contact, distance from body, court position, even surface and weight of the ball etc all impacted the angle racquet head trajectory. Body type and amount of opening of shoulders also impact the type of swing path and finish.
@@MrMSS22 Hey Marcel. Hope you are well. My main point was not that everyone could hit different types of slices. I was trying to convey that the various shots could and are hit by a single player. The video seems to stress that one certain player has only one type. U or J. Players can have all types depending on their position, goals etc. Thanks so much and hope all is well.
what's the best way to slice a deep heavy ball (where you're basically hitting on the rise?) such as returning a heavy topspin serve to your BH? Is it better to use the older Rosewall slice?
I think the main point is that you use different types of slices based on where you're impacting the ball. If you're hitting the ball below the net you have to hit a U type, closing forward. All pros do this since it's much harder to generate a topspin shot that will clear the net. A U-slice will give the ball more air, meaning it will clear the net. If on the other hand the ball is above the net, you can slice more aggressively (i.e. Federer style). The shot then has a downward trajectory, more spin and speed. Federer used this all the time by slicing down the line at fast pace.
@@maxpowers4436 I don't really agree. Federer's standard forehand didn't finish overhead (like Nadal) but he would do it on occasion if he was on the run or if the conditions didn't allow. It's not always the same motion. Of all the movements the serve is the only consistent motion, mainly because you're in control of the toss and can standardize it.
I was just trying to teach my girlfriends the slice last week. I'm a pretty trash coach but all your videos help me to help her. (and my own strokes as well of course) Thanks :)
In this video you talked about the different slices, but I actually learned from one of your earlier videos where you only talked about going from high to low. So as a one handed BH player, I naturally did the J slice simply for disguise, as I want the preparation to look the same whether I hit slice or top spin. Maybe that's the same reason for Federer and other one hander.
I don't see how this works unless you use similar grips for both shots. I don't know what level of player is able to read the difference in racket angle due to the difference between a top spin and slice grip but I would guess 4.0 and up. Perhaps there are other differences in the set up that would give it away as well but the grip is the most obvious one to me.
@user-go8oj4dl4w I did switch the grip as I started the slice. But for one handed player, you'd want the preparation (take back the racquet) to look the same. Two hander players don't have this problem, because they always take back with two hands when hitting drop shots. And the disguise is really for drop shots, as if it were just a slice, your opponent will be able to tell regardless.
@@tomsd8656 you mean you use a 1HBH top spin grip for the take back and then switch to a slice grip as you're swinging forwards? I once saw Mike Bryan fake a backhand slice but then drive it using the slice grip, not a strong drive but it didn't need to be due to the disguise.
@user-go8oj4dl4w Yes, I took back with the topspin grip and slightly rotated to hit a slice as I started the swing. But I usually did that only to try a drop shot. If it's just a slice back during a rally then no need to disguise, as the opponent can tell what kind of ball coming to him. But I had never tried what you said Mike Bryan did. That would probably be harder to pull off.
Great lesson. Could you talk about the slice as an offensive weapon next time? Also, the function/importance of the non racquet hand when slicing. Thanks in Advance
I found that very vertical movement works when there’s pace on that incoming ball. If there’s little pace, the reduced forward movement of the racket can lend a ball short.
I will surely use different styles for different situations. Picking up an aggressive topspin on the rise surely demands others swings than scratching a low ball from the ground. So it depends. I do both styles, maybe Sometimes even the Nadal cut.
It looks to me that there are three type of slice shots characterized by the wrist. 1) Cupped wrist through contact. 2) Cupped wrist transit into a flat or less-cupped wrist through contact. 3）Flat wrist through contact. The swing paths of the arm are very similar in all three. But because of the wrist positions the racquets look like going through very different paths. Federer does mostly (2). It seems like he executes a little ulnar deviation motion on the wrist through contact, which produces a little extra sting on the ball. This is probably hard for us mere mortals to emulate because it's difficult to time the wrist motion right. (1) and (3) would be easier for us because there is no need to worry about timing the wrist. The U-slice corresponds more or less to (1). The Nadal slice corresponds to (3). The following video has a good collections of various slices. Pay attention to the back of the wrist through contact. ruclips.net/video/df8uGh58sVk/видео.html
The “modern slice” is just the “chop” from years ago. Both Rosewall & Laver could hit a slice drive, as could many other players. Coming through the ball, like Laver, is a drive. The “chop” just basically floats the ball back & is very effective at changing the pace ( see the brilliant approach Ashe took against Connors at the 1975 Wimbledon final ).
Thank you. I would appreciate one suggestion. I have been playing tennis for the last 4 months. My game is okay, I mean, I make nice forehands, backhands even slices. I have been using a budget racket that is Head Ti 3000. Please suggest a racket for me to up my game a notch. Thank you.
I am a beginner tennis player, and my understanding is once the ball leaves the string or racket, any extra follow through motion is wasteful. If both strokes produce the same spin, why bother to do the U shape stroke with more recovery time?
Tried the Roger slice and it was great (aka my opponents hated it). It had a lot of spin and it landed kind of short in my case, also had side spin on it in some cases. It was no so good for defending as I did not manage to get depth on it. About the "U" style I'm trying right now I have mixed feelings. I feel it more controllable and has more depth (as I push the ball a little) but not that much spin as the Fed slice. Also sometimes I do the "U" part of the swing too early and hit it quite high ...
The examples in this video all had quite a bit of sidespin. I can see the occasional advantage of this when going down the line, but in most cases wouldn't it be better to have a slice that goes more through the court?
Yea, I understand that the U and J are style but they use completely different muscle though. I wouldn't say style is bad, style is part of the fundamentals, I would say it is an artifact of the fundamentals + body limitations and other preferences. So ignoring style and not looking at matching body style or swing thoughts would not be good. Someone stubby with short arm or inflexible waist, legs probably and impossible to learn Federer's slides even though they know the fundamentals.
sorry but this is absolute bull. if one is 150cm short, one cannot do a J slice. in general, every player does the slice movement which feels the most natural to his natural movement. this is why every player has a different-looking serve and not everyone has a isner serve. there _is_ some point in trying to adopt the isner serve or the federer slice but eventually they will end up doing their own variant of a serve and slice. namely their intuitive serve and slice.
I think the main point is that you use different types of slices based on where you're impacting the ball. If you're hitting the ball below the net you have to hit a U type, closing forward. All pros do this since it's much harder to generate a topspin shot that will clear the net. A U-slice will give the ball more air, meaning it will clear the net. If on the other hand the ball is above the net, you can slice more aggressively (i.e. Federer style). The shot then has a downward trajectory, more spin and speed. Federer used this all the time by slicing down the line at fast pace.
Overall great advice and analysis... However, I number of times you used the expression "VERTICAL SWING PATH". If the swing is primarily a downward vertical swing path, for the last 100 years, that has been defined as a "CHOP". A slice is more horizontal to the court surface. Both shots are important and effective at the right tactical moments. Let's just keep the terms clear to better explain ideas to students. THANKS
The J slice is acceptable for ONLY ball at your knees or low. I totally disagree with how you described the U-shaped slice. You didn’t Sturbridge your shoulders and coiled to hit it and by definition, if you do it wrong. It will look wrong and travel across the net poorly. Further, the U-shaped stroke if done correctly DOES NOT float through the court. Rather, it travels sharply across the court, hits the surface and keeps going. In summary, the J-shaped stroke has a purpose. But you grossly misrepresented and feminist rated the proper use of the U-shape stroke. Last, Ken Rosewall is NOT a good example of the use of the U-shape stroke.
Why does it matter what you do with the racket after contact? In the 'u-shaped slice' the racket lifts only after the ball has left the string-bed? So how is the lifting of the racket after that point going to lift the ball up?
Excellent analysis. I was taught the Nadal slice, it leads to the faster ball of the three but is surely not the easier to play. Love the J of Fed, but finally often play the safer U in matches...
Federer's slice is used on high balls to the backhand where you can come down on the ball to make it nose dive over the net. It's a totally different slice and is not that hard, especially against club players that have a lot of top spin but little pace. On low balls, you will always use the U slice motion.
Actually Nadal on his slices and volleys changes his grip on the throat of the racket. Still continental but grip the throat much higher from the butt cap. I personally use something between J and U slice, but most of the time the top of my racket still faces down like Roger. I use the "clear the table" on short balls that I want to run forwards get quite low myself, hit the slice old-school and then wait ti hit a volley on the next shot. Still many coached teach this "clear the table" method, but I've never seen any pro hitting the slice that way from the baseline.
Good Lesson!! BTW, the most hard slice to deal with I think is the slice looks floating on the air then dropping down toward the baseline nearby.And once the ball touch the ground, it will go slipping fast. So how to slice a floating feeling ball. thx
I'm no pro but I firmly believe slice is just a product of the weakness of the players stroke. Why hit slice when I can hit a proper backhand? With that in mind it's not like I can hit three different slices at will unless I'm a slice specialist. There are exception where it makes sense to over slice but that's still the same slice. From a demonstrative point this video is good but it's not a guide to how to hit a specific type of slice unless I'm trying to become a slice specialist.
Learn the fundamentals of all tennis strokes, while developing your unique style
👉🏻 www.intuitivetennis.com/style-vs-fundamentals
As a former Top Ten ATP Player I would use all various slices in different situations with different goals. Height of contact, distance from body, court position, even surface and weight of the ball etc all impacted the angle racquet head trajectory. Body type and amount of opening of shoulders also impact the type of swing path and finish.
The problem with your advice is, the majority of the audience is not a former Top Ten ATP player.
wow thank you Tim
Hey Tim! I remember watching your match in the wimbledon semis!
I was not former top 10 atp like you, but i was top 100 on the wta
@@MrMSS22 Hey Marcel. Hope you are well. My main point was not that everyone could hit different types of slices. I was trying to convey that the various shots could and are hit by a single player. The video seems to stress that one certain player has only one type. U or J. Players can have all types depending on their position, goals etc. Thanks so much and hope all is well.
what's the best way to slice a deep heavy ball (where you're basically hitting on the rise?) such as returning a heavy topspin serve to your BH? Is it better to use the older Rosewall slice?
How about my favorite? Pizza slice 🍕
I prefer slices of pumpkin pie
I prefer apple pie
🔥
I think the main point is that you use different types of slices based on where you're impacting the ball. If you're hitting the ball below the net you have to hit a U type, closing forward. All pros do this since it's much harder to generate a topspin shot that will clear the net. A U-slice will give the ball more air, meaning it will clear the net.
If on the other hand the ball is above the net, you can slice more aggressively (i.e. Federer style). The shot then has a downward trajectory, more spin and speed. Federer used this all the time by slicing down the line at fast pace.
@@maxpowers4436 I don't really agree. Federer's standard forehand didn't finish overhead (like Nadal) but he would do it on occasion if he was on the run or if the conditions didn't allow. It's not always the same motion. Of all the movements the serve is the only consistent motion, mainly because you're in control of the toss and can standardize it.
I was just trying to teach my girlfriends the slice last week. I'm a pretty trash coach but all your videos help me to help her. (and my own strokes as well of course) Thanks :)
In this video you talked about the different slices, but I actually learned from one of your earlier videos where you only talked about going from high to low. So as a one handed BH player, I naturally did the J slice simply for disguise, as I want the preparation to look the same whether I hit slice or top spin. Maybe that's the same reason for Federer and other one hander.
I don't see how this works unless you use similar grips for both shots. I don't know what level of player is able to read the difference in racket angle due to the difference between a top spin and slice grip but I would guess 4.0 and up. Perhaps there are other differences in the set up that would give it away as well but the grip is the most obvious one to me.
@user-go8oj4dl4w I did switch the grip as I started the slice. But for one handed player, you'd want the preparation (take back the racquet) to look the same. Two hander players don't have this problem, because they always take back with two hands when hitting drop shots. And the disguise is really for drop shots, as if it were just a slice, your opponent will be able to tell regardless.
@@tomsd8656 you mean you use a 1HBH top spin grip for the take back and then switch to a slice grip as you're swinging forwards? I once saw Mike Bryan fake a backhand slice but then drive it using the slice grip, not a strong drive but it didn't need to be due to the disguise.
@user-go8oj4dl4w Yes, I took back with the topspin grip and slightly rotated to hit a slice as I started the swing. But I usually did that only to try a drop shot. If it's just a slice back during a rally then no need to disguise, as the opponent can tell what kind of ball coming to him. But I had never tried what you said Mike Bryan did. That would probably be harder to pull off.
@@tomsd8656 It was in a highlights reel for good reason! Everyone was expecting a lob and he hit a passing shot.
General speaking, to me, if the coming ball is
Low & Slow > U
Low & Fast > J
High & Slow > a more forward J
High & Fast > a more downward J
love the slice explanation and examples among fav pros!
Exactly what I needed! My slice has been off for quite some time. Will try U slice as soon as tomorrow.
Hvala Nikola😁
🙌
Surprised u didn't mention Ash Barty's slice. Great video tho. I have no idea if I J or U... I just lead with the elbow
Best slice on the WTA and ATP toours combined, until she retired.
Great lesson. Could you talk about the slice as an offensive weapon next time?
Also, the function/importance of the non racquet hand when slicing.
Thanks in Advance
I found that very vertical movement works when there’s pace on that incoming ball. If there’s little pace, the reduced forward movement of the racket can lend a ball short.
Excellent lesson. Thank you Nick.
This is amazing presentation and great lesson even for somebody that doesn't play tennis.
Excelent explanation.
I will surely use different styles for different situations. Picking up an aggressive topspin on the rise surely demands others swings than scratching a low ball from the ground.
So it depends. I do both styles, maybe Sometimes even the Nadal cut.
It looks to me that there are three type of slice shots characterized by the wrist. 1) Cupped wrist through contact. 2) Cupped wrist transit into a flat or less-cupped wrist through contact. 3）Flat wrist through contact. The swing paths of the arm are very similar in all three. But because of the wrist positions the racquets look like going through very different paths. Federer does mostly (2). It seems like he executes a little ulnar deviation motion on the wrist through contact, which produces a little extra sting on the ball. This is probably hard for us mere mortals to emulate because it's difficult to time the wrist motion right. (1) and (3) would be easier for us because there is no need to worry about timing the wrist. The U-slice corresponds more or less to (1). The Nadal slice corresponds to (3). The following video has a good collections of various slices. Pay attention to the back of the wrist through contact. ruclips.net/video/df8uGh58sVk/видео.html
Nice work teacher 👍
Thank you for video, what about Steffi Graf slice, could you comment quickly please
Both Graf and Barty have U shape slice. Graf starting position below shoulder like Djokovic most of the time
@@IntuitiveTennisthank you Nick
The “modern slice” is just the “chop” from years ago.
Both Rosewall & Laver could hit a slice drive, as could many other players.
Coming through the ball, like Laver, is a drive.
The “chop” just basically floats the ball back & is very effective at changing the pace ( see the brilliant approach Ashe took against Connors at the 1975 Wimbledon final ).
So in a magical way the movement of the racket after(!) the point of contact influences the outcome ;) ...
Thank you. I would appreciate one suggestion. I have been playing tennis for the last 4 months. My game is okay, I mean, I make nice forehands, backhands even slices. I have been using a budget racket that is Head Ti 3000. Please suggest a racket for me to up my game a notch. Thank you.
The Steffi Graf cross court backhand slice with lateral spin to the right, was specially agressive
Queen of slice Ash Barty 👌
No, Grafs Slice Queen all time
I am a beginner tennis player, and my understanding is once the ball leaves the string or racket, any extra follow through motion is wasteful. If both strokes produce the same spin, why bother to do the U shape stroke with more recovery time?
Tried the Roger slice and it was great (aka my opponents hated it). It had a lot of spin and it landed kind of short in my case, also had side spin on it in some cases. It was no so good for defending as I did not manage to get depth on it. About the "U" style I'm trying right now I have mixed feelings. I feel it more controllable and has more depth (as I push the ball a little) but not that much spin as the Fed slice. Also sometimes I do the "U" part of the swing too early and hit it quite high ...
The examples in this video all had quite a bit of sidespin. I can see the occasional advantage of this when going down the line, but in most cases wouldn't it be better to have a slice that goes more through the court?
I prefer the J slice.
I though that you should go forward to hit the slide. And i really think that a proper slide must be linear.
if you describe well different moves of the arm, you never tell where to hit the ball as a sphere (under, in front, to the top, to the side...)
Ah just learning the Fed J slice 😅 how can it go so deep if he's just cutting it sideways ?
What is the significance of the racket movement *after* the impact point?
The destination of the swing impacts how your racquet approaches the ball before you hit it.
Bro you are clearly built for basketball
is that a wilson shift?
it has to be
Yea, I understand that the U and J are style but they use completely different muscle though. I wouldn't say style is bad, style is part of the fundamentals, I would say it is an artifact of the fundamentals + body limitations and other preferences. So ignoring style and not looking at matching body style or swing thoughts would not be good. Someone stubby with short arm or inflexible waist, legs probably and impossible to learn Federer's slides even though they know the fundamentals.
First
I probably use all three of them on certain balls and not realize it.
Doesn't the finish depend on the incoming ball? A high slice will finish low, a low slice will finish high
They call me Tortellini !
I use my wrist a lot more and my hand goes out in the direction of the shot.
Shifted to S H I F T - nice😎
sorry but this is absolute bull. if one is 150cm short, one cannot do a J slice. in general, every player does the slice movement which feels the most natural to his natural movement. this is why every player has a different-looking serve and not everyone has a isner serve. there _is_ some point in trying to adopt the isner serve or the federer slice but eventually they will end up doing their own variant of a serve and slice. namely their intuitive serve and slice.
I think the main point is that you use different types of slices based on where you're impacting the ball. If you're hitting the ball below the net you have to hit a U type, closing forward. All pros do this since it's much harder to generate a topspin shot that will clear the net. A U-slice will give the ball more air, meaning it will clear the net.
If on the other hand the ball is above the net, you can slice more aggressively (i.e. Federer style). The shot then has a downward trajectory, more spin and speed. Federer used this all the time by slicing down the line at fast pace.
Great video! But, I'd rather learn Steffi's slice. Such an amazing shot.
Excellent as always. Thanks so much
You need to be careful giving slice advice I developed tendonitis because of my very effective but tennis elbow inducing slice.
The Djokovic slice seems best for me, but i will try all three of them. Great video Nick! 😀
🔥
@@IntuitiveTennis what racket do you use
Thanks!
Very good!
Could you briefly point out the one or two main reasons that makes a slice float up and long. Sometimes my slice sails on me unexpectedly.
👏🏽👏🏽💯
Overall great advice and analysis... However, I number of times you used the expression "VERTICAL SWING PATH". If the swing is primarily a downward vertical swing path, for the last 100 years, that has been defined as a "CHOP". A slice is more horizontal to the court surface. Both shots are important and effective at the right tactical moments. Let's just keep the terms clear to better explain ideas to students. THANKS
The J slice is acceptable for ONLY ball at your knees or low. I totally disagree with how you described the U-shaped slice. You didn’t Sturbridge your shoulders and coiled to hit it and by definition, if you do it wrong. It will look wrong and travel across the net poorly. Further, the U-shaped stroke if done correctly DOES NOT float through the court. Rather, it travels sharply across the court, hits the surface and keeps going.
In summary, the J-shaped stroke has a purpose. But you grossly misrepresented and feminist rated the proper use of the U-shape stroke. Last, Ken Rosewall is NOT a good example of the use of the U-shape stroke.
Nice presentation, thank you.
Nadal's backhand slice prevents shoulder (rear delt) injury.
Why does it matter what you do with the racket after contact? In the 'u-shaped slice' the racket lifts only after the ball has left the string-bed? So how is the lifting of the racket after that point going to lift the ball up?
Excellent analysis. I was taught the Nadal slice, it leads to the faster ball of the three but is surely not the easier to play. Love the J of Fed, but finally often play the safer U in matches...
Federer's slice is used on high balls to the backhand where you can come down on the ball to make it nose dive over the net. It's a totally different slice and is not that hard, especially against club players that have a lot of top spin but little pace. On low balls, you will always use the U slice motion.
Have not seen a single rec player hit a quality J slice independent of ball height. Feel free to prove me wrong by posting a video below
@@IntuitiveTennis how do you define a recreational player (maybe by the years of playing the game?)
Absorbing your wisdom 🏆🎾🙏
Nowadays Dimitrov took slice to a new art form; he combines very well the BH slice (80% of the time) with full flat BH when passing.
Actually Nadal on his slices and volleys changes his grip on the throat of the racket. Still continental but grip the throat much higher from the butt cap.
I personally use something between J and U slice, but most of the time the top of my racket still faces down like Roger.
I use the "clear the table" on short balls that I want to run forwards get quite low myself, hit the slice old-school and then wait ti hit a volley on the next shot.
Still many coached teach this "clear the table" method, but I've never seen any pro hitting the slice that way from the baseline.
Good Lesson!! BTW, the most hard slice to deal with I think is the slice looks floating on the air then dropping down toward the baseline nearby.And once the ball touch the ground, it will go slipping fast. So how to slice a floating feeling ball. thx
So I'm guessing there'll be no video on the Jensen Brooksby 2-handed slice. What if we want to learn to hit the ugliest shot in tennis?
I thought I was doing Roger slice,
Until I saw my own video.
Mine is more similar to Rafas
All your slice examples hit at the right side of the ball, making the ball to go inside out and have outside spin (to the left)?
My slice is L Slice.
I'm no pro but I firmly believe slice is just a product of the weakness of the players stroke. Why hit slice when I can hit a proper backhand? With that in mind it's not like I can hit three different slices at will unless I'm a slice specialist. There are exception where it makes sense to over slice but that's still the same slice. From a demonstrative point this video is good but it's not a guide to how to hit a specific type of slice unless I'm trying to become a slice specialist.