Why Some Cars Have a Timing Chain Instead of a Timing Belt
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- Опубликовано: 25 окт 2018
- Why Some Cars Have a Timing Chain Instead of a Timing Belt, DIY with Scotty Kilmer. Timing belt vs timing chain. How timing belt works. How timing chain works. Timing belt or timing chain, which is better? How to check timing belt. How to check timing chain. Timing belt inspection. Timing chain inspection. The history of timing belts and timing chains. Everything you need to know about timing belts and timing chains. Car advice. DIY car repair with Scotty Kilmer, an auto mechanic for the last 50 years.
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Scotty Kilmer the best is the concept of the vw type 4 ,the only thing you have to do is adjusting the valves
Scotty Kilmer Mercedes and a lot of vws have timing chains
Loved the edit when you brought up the Celiac 😂
excellent information scotty, thanks and you rock dude!
Holy cow Scotty, how many videos do you make in a week? I would be exhausted. Hey, how about that link for the hot chick leaning on that old school vw love van ?
Love the fact that your videos are only around 5 mins long. Cover a lot of info and no bullshit. Thanks Scotty!
He talks too fast for Texans.
5 minutes of bull
Exactly and no loud rap music that you can't hear him speak over.
I don't mind longer videos as long as there is a point to it.
No Doubt but I don’t mind the longer videos either, 👍🏾👊🏾✌🏾🇳🇬🇺🇸
Love how scotty always sounds like he’s 9 shots in on a Wednesday afternoon
Lmao, I always think the something!
I thought it was just me who thought that 😋
That's why he's my guy 😂
Rod Stewart? 🤣😅
I was thinking a couple lines.
An honest man, you should be proud of yourself Scotty!!!! I’m a mechanic aswell tho I don’t do these videos I’m glad you do you help arm a lot of people with knowledge
Couldn't Agree More with what you said mate.
I know nothing about cars but have learned much from you. I’ve come to look forward to your humour and energy. Bravo, Sir!
Filming at night. I appreciate Scotty for the hard work he does and for his honesty.
He’s probably filming at the same time as always but the sun sets earlier
@@noelmedina6925 it has been getting dark sooner. I just thought he was bored one late evening and decided to make a video .
I thought Scotty mentioned that he usually films in the mornings? It looks like dawn, to me.
Adam F He's definitely like a cybernetic organism, a living tissue over a metal endoskeleton
Plus, a timing chain will give you ample warning before it breaks, a worn chain will make considerable noise, enough to be noticed. A belt will just snap without warning.
Or a tensioner can seize with no warning (same result)
A belt will give more than sufficient warning, its called an odometer and being able to count the miles/years since it was last changed.
Yes the chain on my last 1972 Hillman Avenger made a horrible noise when it was worn out. The engine wouldn't have smashed itself up but changing it anyway wasn't too expensive. My present 1972 Avenger had the chain checked when the engine was rebuilt, didn't need changing. Good for another 46 years or so.
@black guy Technically you are correct, but I was not being a dick, I was trying to express my opinion that if the timing belt is changed on time (by miles or years) then it's not likely to be a concern, and the "warning" is in the owners handbook rather than waiting for a noise. Sorry if I was not clear.
Absolutely not true. My parent's 77 Buick (Built with the 403 Olds engine) broke a timing chain with no warning - unless you consider a loud "BANG" a second before it broke "ample warning"! A chain link can snap on an otherwise decent chain.
I recall my 79 305 making a hell of a lot of noise; not so much for the chain being worn, but rather the nylon teeth they put on the gears. That didn't break, but you could bet money that the gears and chain were replaced with a good double-roller chain!
I just put in my search “Why some cars has timing belt and not chain. First thing come up was scotty face... I smile 😎
Scotty was a Japanese Toyoda engineer in his last life time
😂
🤣
Scotty San!
😂😂😂😂🤭 Yea, sure, he was 🤭🤭😂😂
Scotty 'Toyota' Kilmer :-D
Rev up your timing chains
..unless you're driving an older Nissan
LOL!!
Pew pewwww
Rev up your Chevrolet Sonic with an Ecotec 1.8 interference engine!!
Vroom! Vroooom! Vrooooooom... *_SNAP!!!!_*
Change your Timing Belt on time... _OR ELSE!_
😂😂😂
If you want the real reason for anything do a financial analysis. Chase the money, it’s always the clearest answer.
✔Sad but true ...
Follow the money!
Except as Scotty said, timing chains cost more to manufacture than belts, yet most Toyotas built today have chains (some diesels actually have gears)
That’s true except when its more beneficial to spend more money to make more money.
Are you one of those commies who don’t realize chasing money has allowed us to buy food for $1.50 in 3 minutes?
This guy does videos the way I like: concise. No fluff, just right to the point and hammers your with points.
Really enjoy your informative and no nonsense approach to the car industry. You are an asset to your viewers. Rest assured, you have saved decent folk alot of money and un necessary hassle who've watch your content. This is from an ex Mercedes Technician. Keep up the great service Scotty. 👍
Changed the timing chain on my 77 GP at 300,000 miles. The one removed showed little ware,and was still good. Sold that car with 417,000 miles on it, I still miss that car!
Belts are for clothes, not controlling valves.
Yeah it's ludicrous to have a rubber belt controlling the timing of an engine, a timing chain should be mandatory on all cars
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂Absolutely right
@@bar-sabas4801 Yeah manufacturers use rubber belts to save on costs and so the consumer has to come back every 80 thousand miles for new belts, saying that the Alternator belt on my car is up to 101 thousand miles only just Now making a squeaking noise but luckily the engine has a chain not timing belt so no worries there
Cars have timing belts because cars wear pants too 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Thank you. Chains are superior in every way.
4:05 “steel chains” almost sounds like he’s singing it😂
ChAaAins
Chayayains
Ha ha 😂 proper made me giggle
Excellent video as usual. My 2.7L/V6 Sonata has a great engine, but it's an interference engine. I replaced the timing belt last year at 128,000, along with the idler pulleys, water pump, and hydraulic tensioner. The other belt was in good condition for 8 years old. Took 4 1/2 hrs to replace everything.
The 2.0/ 2.4 Theta I is a chain engine in the Sonata, I would go with that personally. Not the Theta II, that sucks.
electronicsNmore :
Interesting. I have a 2.4 4 cylinder Santa Fe. I changed the timing belt, and replaces the whole timing pulleys with a kit. The belt and the pulleys were still in great condition. I could've just left it alone.
@@Naturalhit The rubber exterior of the belt may have been fine but the tensile cords in the belt are affected by fatigue over time, and there is no way to inspect these. Just before a catastrophic failure of the belt, the cords begin to break progressively and the belt lengthens slightly as the fibres break and pull through the rubber slightly. But again, there's no way to determine when this is actually happening before the belt completely fails.
I love how straight to the point these videos are. I feel like I’m asking the old guy at my local shop for advice.
Scotty’s channel is so much better than all those other car review YT channels that only talk about power and performance while not focusing on long term dependability and reliability which is much more important to consumers!
Your a Living Legand Scotty. Keep up the great work!
When I see timing chains have issues it's with the chain tentioners not the chain itself
Ford Cologne 4.0 SOHC V6. Weak guides and tensioners. A chain on front for one bank and hidden chain in the MF BACK for the other bank, IMPOSSIBLE to repair rear without engine removal.
@@WhitefolksT similar problem with the older gen Colorado V6 engine.
This is one of the issues the 95-98 Nissan Sentra's have is the tensioners. You hear rattles but they are excellent cars
@@Trident_Euclid i thought Colorado's only with 4's and inline 5's
WhitefolksT yes now that engine is bullshit typical ford
Belt or chain, If the tensioner fail you hope you have a non interference motor.
Them right.
So true. At the shop I work at we get several ecotec motors that come in and the guides are broken and the chain has quite a bit of slack in it. Broken guides and weak tensioners is not good.
How do you know buying a car if it’s interference or not?
@@Shino2600 Good question. Honestly the owners manual won't tell you, a car salesman will most likely give you a blank stare. I googled it when I had a Civic to find out if it had an interference motor or not. Most vehicles have interference motors unfortunately. The only non interference motors I know off hand are Toyota's 1MZFE and 5S-FE (90s Camrys).
@@Shino2600 no real way to know just by looking and most people won't know. 2.3 Ford motors are non-interference or at least my 98 rangers motor is. Just gotta Google it
Scotty is a true O.G..he letting the truth be told about these scandalous car companys..salute
This chap makes it look so easy and he is very clear and precise love watching these vids
My Honda RC51 uses timing gears and I think the gear whine sounds incredible paired with the V-twin roar!
Geared cams sound better than anything else, screw the people who cry about the whine
yup i love the whining noise of those VFRs!!! I wish my Suzuki bandit had those cam gears!
Had Sato exhaust on my RC51, music to my ears. Not to others 😂😂😂
Lol, I really want to own that bike! One of my favourites and the BEST sounding bikes apart from the R1s with the crossplane crank.
I love the gear whine on my RC51. That whole combined with the V-Twin sound is amazing.😊
Less wallet pain with a chain!
unless you have that one one bmw where it costs 4000++ to fix and all of them were faulty :D
Ettei olis ollu e46 318?
Well... Replacing a timing chain can be a pain on cars with bigger engines. on a 3 or 4 cylinder its a 10 minute job and about 150bucks but on a V shaped engine it can cost a fortune.
It happened with gears to on Dodge the gear was made from alloy center and plastic teeth just as bad as a belt. All done for quite motors. Chevy no problem non interference but Dodge look out Pontiac to.
n47 engine
Hey Scotty, Back in the day, Ford made their engines (302 in my case) with a timing chain, BUT the timing gear had a thick nylon tooth coating on it. It would disintegrate at about 120k miles. The fragments would fall into the oil pan and get sucked up by the oil pump.Then you'd have to remove the pan AND the pump to clean it all out.
5:09 "and people want quieter cars, they dont want louder ones"
shows pic of riced civic
The timing gears idea is what I want ,I don't mind a whining noise from the engine especially if it will last a million miles lol 😂
I love non-interference engines! 👍💯
Will Cal a
@Joe Paul
Toyota still are mostly
What are some good reliable non interference engine cars? With cams not hitting the top
@@richguev 97-01 Camry with 4 cylinder for sure.
Will Cal how would I be able to know just by looking at the engine bay if the engine is non-interference?
Watched a few videos of yours. I’m sure you get this a lot but you’re like the Bill Nye of all things motorized. I learn so much from these uploads because your charisma and fun attitude makes learning so enjoyable and retainable! Thanks a ton and keep em coming 👌🏻
🕺🏽💃🏽
It isn’t the rubber that resists stretching in a timing belt, it’s the fiberglass or kevlar (or other material) reinforcing cords. I think Scotty knows that.
Exactly
2:06 that image right there tells that Scotty is just epic accurate with ur reaction 😂😂😂🙈👍🏼
I had a '74 Mustang II, had 2 timing gears. one of them was plastic on the outside so it broke and I replaced with 2 new metal gears (aftermarket). Ran well for many years. Nice Video as always.
Defeats the whole point of a chain. Leave it to Ford. Yet one more reason I stay away from their crappy designs. I'm with Scotty, Hondas and Toyotas, you can't go wrong.
You're editing skills are next level Scotty keep it up!
My buddy's 2008 Jeep Compass is scap metal now because of the cheap timing chain. Thanks Scotty. Your videos rock
We have a Tundra and a RAV4 and I do believe they both have timing chains. Great info Scotty. PS. No one want their rubber to break. Lol.
Thanks Scotty, for filling in the gaps in my knowledge :)
Fantastic info, Scotty! Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge!!
Great video Scotty, one interesting twist is the Gates RPM division Kevlar racing belt I used on my Porsche 944. It is 3 times stronger than the OEM rubber belt and I didn't want to leave anything to chance with the 2.5 liter interference engine
I hate cars with timing belts. Another point of failure
Badly designed timing chains are also a huge point of failure
@@CookiesUnleashed true esp with plastic guides
@@CookiesUnleashed ive got a car which needs the chain reaplaced as often as the belt so its more expensive. We need to go back to gears
Ha ha. See BMW n47 diesel engine
As opposed to a chain that has hundreds more points of failure?
Hi Scotty, I am from Europe and have to say that things said here are only partially true for Europian cars. As it goes, car manufacturers tend to skip out on material quality so we had cars with a lot of timing chain issues. It culminated with VW Golf TSI engine which had a timing chain that I would not fit on a bicycle, let alone on the car. People reported that it overstretched after 25.000 miles only.
On the other hand, modern timing belts are not made solely from rubber anymore. Today they are made from glass fibres and aramids (like kevlar), and some manufacturers (like ford) introduced wet timing belt system and they can last for hundreds of thousands of miles.
No one cares. Europe is gay
@@Michiganman800 alright big boy
I know a ford engine with wet timing belt and the original belt never lasted long. Atleast the European ones didn't.
better gay than a murder!
MC Polž haha dobra
My timing belt broke once as I approached a red light. instant dead and no start. Fun.
It can happen with chains, too - though more often than not, it's because the chain slips rather than breaks. Had it happen on an old Chevy. The chain didn't stretch all that much; the issue was that GM used a cam sprocket that had its teeth jacketed in nylon to help keep engine noise to a minimum. Over the years, the nylon got brittle and started breaking off, and once enough had worn away or broken, it left enough slop in the timing set that the timing would eventually jump.
@@xaenon. Yep. Been there done that. Back then it was recommended to replace those GM chains at 60k miles.
el oh el
yeah you were supposed to replace those every so often. Heck my 1980 chevy truck i had to adjust the carbs in the fall and the spring for the change in weather. I think we all forget how much maintenance old cars really were.
my GF's 2.5l did that right on i-95 in the middle of ft. apache the bronx around midnight driving home. lucky for us we had still had a bottle of bacardi 151 and met some cool people who helped us find a towtruck (they said cars get stripped on that part of the highway all the time and smart not to gotten too far from it..) a parts store, and a garage did the work for $100 overnight while we all hung out and drank and worked on the car. (bet you thought I was going a different direction when I started this out... ^_^ ) she got lucky the head and crank didnt slip it was the intermediate shaft that went to the distributor and thrown the spark timing off.
247k miles on my 04 Honda Accord, still going strong thanks to the timing CHAIN!
Why upper case?
247k!?😦
@@bEEBO178 Chains are superior. No rappers named 2 belts, only 2 Chainz.
Kinda sad cuz they put back timing belt for accord gen 8
I love the 🐍 under the hood. That made my flipping day. Good explanation on the Timing belt and Timing Chain Scotty. Keep it UP!!!!
I'm happy with timing belt in my Toyota Avensis 2000 (4A-FE). I change belt myself, it easy beacause there is plenty of room to work under the hood.
I always hated timing belts in principal. The first time I saw one, I thought the engineers were completely insane. I spent a couple of hours trying to wrap my head around why any engineer would choose such a sloppy and poor solution to something that absolutely needed maximum reliability.
This is why you should never buy a brand new car. Always buy used, a couple of years after all the bugs have been discovered.
Scotty, I worked as a transmission mechanic. Quite often, we had to do rebuilds that required engineering updates to improve lubrication or solve other factory issues. It would be interesting for viewers to know how often brand new cars get these unknown updates that are only addressed after equipment failure, during the repair process.
You should buy used card cause they are more affordable. If you can afford a new car, it's best to wait till the end of the year when both delears & makers are offering incentives. By that point plenty of people have already noticed and reported the bugs your talking about.
Thank you for sharing your experiences with the people of the world❤️❤️❤️
Makes you want to slap the guy who sold the timing belt idea to the engine MFG's
Yeah timing gears and chains definitely the best, it's outrageous back in the 1920s cars were built to literally last a lifetime where as some of the crap cars today have planned self destruct dates , for example anything made by GM seems to explode after 7 years ,where as anything built by Honda will last you 20 years no problem
@@Tiffany.1970 timing belts aren't bad. I prefer them on classic cars as a chain still needs maintence, especially if it relies on a tensioner
@@richracing7420 true. I prefer timing belts because it uses pulleys for tension whereas the timing chain uses guides which are plastic. None is superior
Some German cars have problems with timing chains.
it's all about making money my friend.
2zzge baby..long live timing chains😎😎
I have the 2jz-ge...... belt and interference (vvti) :(
@@VincentCS34F :(
@2012日本語がわかりません cool then.
I wish I had the 2zz... stuck with a 🐌 1zz
@@Phannty lol 1zz is not that bad
Thanks Scotty for this info on timing chains vs timing belts..
I didn't know this.
when ever I search anything related to car I always end up watching Scotty's videos. Real legend
All of a sudden, I love metal timing chains!
Loved my old ('96 and older) Ford 4.9 litres. Or 300 CID inline six for you old goats. Gear to gear, no timing chain. And those engines were built like a tank. Originally designed for industrial applications they got put in pickups as a temporary measure. That turned into long term. Great for us old guys that ran the wheels off service trucks. Bulletproof old iron.
Ford's best engine. Bulletproof.
Interesting info. I just know they used em in older mustang's. Will file that away
I love this guy... He is funny and informative..
He was for some time when he was younger a professional member of the media.
I have a 2002 Nissan Frontier 2.4L with a Timing Change and 198 k Miles ,I love this old little truck.
Yeah, I remember with the Chrysler 2.2 and 2.5, they had rubber timing belts. My grandfather refused to buy one back in the day because of it. He was certainly skeptical over the reliability of them verses the old chain method. I bet if you could convert the Honda 3.5 v6 to a chain it would just run forever.
69 Mercury Cougar V8 had timing chain. However, the crankshaft sprocket was steel but the camshaft sprocket was some sort of composite that wore out. (I bought it used so I don't know if it had been previously replaced with cheap parts). Easy to replace timing chain and sprocket. Replaced timing belt of 74 Mustang II. But it was hard to put the belt on while keeping the sprockets lined up. It seems like it took a dozen tries. I'm glad they are back to gears. But I don't do my own repairs anymore. I'm too busy and modern cars are too cramped under the hood.
All Ford gears of that vintage had nylon faced alloy cam gear. With a link belt chain. Actually quite a big job when they fail as you have to remove the whole front of the engine and drop the front of the pan to get the cover off and back on.
And often end up with an oil leak after. Or pull the pan by lifting the engine up as far as it will go, removing the sway bar and pull the pan out by turning the crank so as to wiggle the pan off. though that is the best way as there will be all the dead gear crap in the pan anyway. Days work however with a p/s AC car.
Thank You for this review
Great video. My dad owned a 1969 Pontiac Grand Prix that had a 428 Cubic inch engine. At about 30,000 miles, the timing chain "jumped". These engines, from the factory, had a timing chain containing metal sprockets that had nylon (plastic) teeth. It was the premature wear of these nylon teeth that caused the timing chain to "jump". Pontiac told him that this design made the engine run quieter. We all know that making gears containing plastic teeth was probably cheaper to manufacture. Thankfully, there was no other engine damage as a result of the timing chain jumping. The timing chain was replaced with a heavy duty, all steel timing chain and sprockets. The engine did not sound any louder after the replacement.
52 years later, the engine still runs good with the same, all steel timing chain assembly.
That snake under the hood did it for me :)) you can tell Scotty has a lot of fun editing his videos :)
This man is fantastic love his videos
The old Ford 4.9L/300 cu. in. inline 6-cylinder engine has timing gears, in case anyone is interested....
I had one of those in a F150 when I was younger and dumber. Didn’t know what I had cuz I would have kept it. Those engines are legendary and were used many years in UPS trucks. It was a great motor.
yeah - a friend had one in a 70 pickup. it blew up when he was doing about 70 on the highway.
They put that in vans, bronco even f-250. Ford stopped putting them in 1996 . 300 cu inch 4.9 liter. Legendary motor
@@chieftp Either severe use or lack of maintenance.
Han Skinslo In my opinion you would be hard-pressed to beat those helical gears.
I had my timing belt changed on my Acura MDX twice already. At 70k miles the first time to play it safe. And just did it recently at 145k miles. And my mechanic showed me my old timing belt it still looked almost new so those rubber belts are very durable and could easily do over 100k miles.
I have a corolla 200000km on it never did the timing belt still look new... Changed on my Hilux 10 years old 150000km did not even need it...
Toyota belt good rest no good
Scotty dude I've seen all your video's. Well most of them I'm becoming a car guru, and driving the guys at work crazy with my Scotty says info, your the best.
Great info as always bud!
Rubbers break, ask any NBA player.
Or yer mum 😁
I see what you did there... Lol
Gold! I owe you a steak dinner!
In that case...ask most Kardashian women. 😏
Lol
Great video. I like when you get into the history and evolution of engine design and manufacturing 👍
Me too. It helps you understand why we are where we are now and the pros and cons of yesterday.
Scotty is amazing. Watching his videos has severally saved me money
Scotty "I use a timing chain to hold my pants up" Kilmer.
A timing chain is a prerequisite for me when buying a new car... Of all 5 cars I've had, all have had chains. Have clicked 345,000km in my 2000 Ford Falcon and it still runs like new with nothing but fluid changes and the odd pulley replacing. Services cost me around $20-30 every 6 months on an engine with such a simple, solid design!
Your video helped me decide what is best for me in a car for the long run...Thank you.
Scotty, COULD NOT AGREE MORE! Had a 89 Mustang, 2300 cc, 29k miles, Broke the belt!
My Dad's first question about any car: "Belt or chain?"
Old school 👍
Belt
In my car has a timing chain keep your oil level right and regular oil changes drive your car correctly and it last a life time ,am happy .
As a tech, I miss timing belts, so easy to do and great money. Now all I do is replace prematurely broken plastic parts that should have been made from metal in the first place. Customers ask why I drive a 1970 chevy truck, and I tell them all the same thing; it's cheap to fix, extremely reliable, and the big one, I haven't had any plastic parts fail!! Wait... What plastic parts?!
I love Scotty's sense of humor with his funny picture snips lol always makes me laugh
The problem I had on the two timing belts that I lost about 20 years ago (one on an interference engine 😢, one on a noninterference engine 😁) was not that the belts "snapped". Both sheared off the teeth on the belt at one location. Examination showed that the teeth on the belt were cracked and degraded. However, having looked at more recent belts replaced after 10 years, the belts seemed to be in much better shape with no signs of cracking. Perhaps the belts have improved? I don't think the engines are running cooler (which would presumably cause the belts to degrade more slowly).
I got the feeling you don't like Nissan very much Scotty. Just a hunch!!
love my Titan. Steel timing chain. Forged crank. thin body metal.
@@dufus2273 good to hear something positive about Nissan. Nissan Altima is definitely quality! Sorry Scotty! Think it's about knowing the models and years of a brand.
He likes the old ones pre-Renault merge. And my Grampa's neighbor has a Datsun 280Z.
Sam Rossi Songwriter Not all Nissan’s are bad. Nissan Leafs are super reliable!
Nissan GTR > any Toyota lol
This video was very informative! Thank you for sharing.
And in a short period of time I learned more about my vehicle in an easy to undestand form by an enthusiastic and entertaining man without paying an enormous fee.
The mechanic john lennon.
Good video Great explanation
Thanks for teaching us
😂
Plastic chain tensioners...living that Jaguar XJ8 life.
a plastic piece in the engine block? wow..
why they do this
@@Nist12 saving money I guess. Second gen were half plastic and finally after 4 years the 3rd gen were all metal.
Good luck looking for chain guides made of metal
Toyota 22r has chain guide problems
how about the plastic timing gears...
This guy makes cars interesting...I've learned so much just because of his energy
Another reason I love my Tundra - made in Texas, thank you
Let's go back to timing gears!
Best timing ever invented. Good thing that for some engines you can get an aftermarket gear sets.
I love the whine. Sounds like a supercharger 😂
Agreed. Im an aircractf mechanic. Trust me when i say every little 1 engine or 2 engine reciprocating engine plane you see or hear uses timing gears in their engine.
Nothing less than *top shelf reliability* is even PERMITTED in aviation. And so it should be in automotive as well.
And i question the "whining" problem because you dont hear it in aviation engines. But then again, aviation engines are far from quiet. Lol
Get a Diesel truck... They still have timing gears
Good call, I'm a Heavy diesel tech, the big gear only uses timing gears, had roller rockers and double overhead cams for ages too.
The main reason why timing gears aren't used nowadays has nothing to do with expense or the whining sound they make. Timing gears receive harmonic vibrations from the engine and adjacent parts pick up some of it. This trips the knock sensor in modern cars which makes the ignition timing go wonky.
BAM!
My car has a knock sensor and a timing chain... As well as most modern over head cam v-8's for the last 28 years...
@@lilsammywasapunkrock He was talking about timing gears (ie. a series of connected gears), not timing chains (ie. two gears linked via a chain).
Good ol ford 300 straight 6 timing gears from the first one produced all the way to 96.
@@lilsammywasapunkrock you need to learn how to read.
Nice informative video Scotty, you gained another subscriber, greetings from South Africa.
Now what some of us need is to check if an engine has a belt or a chain. How to check that, it’s not like that info is written anywhere on the car or its documents. Great job scotty
Seems like timing gears are still the most reliable option.... I wont mind the noise cause materials used in modern cars eliminates external noise efficiently
You really don't hear any noise with the timing gears LOL. My 84 Ranger and Bronco 2 had the 2.8L V6 engine which had timing gears. When they switched to the 2.9L fuel injected V6 in 1986 they dumped the timing gears for a timing chain. Timing gears or a timing chain will be fine, its the built in expensive failures of timing belts that really pisses me off...they couldn't spend an extra quarter to just put a timing chain in rather than a damn belt that will fail and cause major damage in several engines. Engineering/cost cutting at its best, and they'll just rape you when you come in needing that belt changed because...well not only did they cheap out and install a rubber belt they also installed a nice plastic water pump for you as well that needs replaced at the same time.
Most modern engines are OHV design, using gears would make the engine take up way too much space in the engine compartment. If you want timing gears, look for a pushrod engine like the corvette.
I had a 6 cylinder Ford in 1966. One timing gear was steel the other was nylon. Eventually at around 100k the nylon gear would start to wear out or "feather". New set of gears cost $40. That was about a third of a week's pay back then for comparison purposes. It had no "whine".
Chains are definitely better. However quite a few earlier v8’s (Chevy comes to mind) had cheap potmetal cam gears with pressed on nylon teeth that would wear out quickly and cause the engine to jump time or piston to valve contact. My 80,000 original mileage 1966 Chevy 396 had one of these gears on it. Went with a double roller with steel gears and teeth and won’t have to worry about it for a long time.
Older V8 (ford, chevy and Dodge) never bent valves even if the chain broke.....
Yeah, I had a 69 Impala, 327 chain broke bent 5 valves and 4 pushrods in one head..lol..
Steve Prince I’ve heard my Ford 4L 6 SOHC is a ticking time bomb because of the numerous timing chain guides. A couple of them look easy and inexpensive to replace but their are a few down below that I’ve heard are difficult to get to and very expensive. And to top that off I’ve heard a few of the guides are plastic!
Tony B
NEVER?🤔
The nylon does help quiet down the whining. (not the customer whining, the engine noise whining)
The wining noise is so cool tho I love it
Got around 220k miles on my '03 corolla basycally only chaged filters!!! Awesome cars.
All cars should have timing chains. Last longer and does not have to be changed. I would prefer gears. I can put up with a little noise if they are dependable.
I can't hear it feel my timing chain. And my v-8 doesn't rattle the way a I-4 does anyways.
Hard to believe gear on gear meshing is louder than a freaking long chain. I have been in older cars with cams at the bottom and no whinning.
@@moviejose3249 If you want quieter gears just go with helical cut gears rather than straight cut, it's what we use in most transmissions to keep them quiet, the trade off is cost of manufacture and you can give up on overhead cams unless you want a whole series of gears.
The problem with the gears wasn't the noise as he says, actually is the weight and balance of the engine and parts, making it a little more expensive to engineer and produce the engine and car itself.
The whine is similar to the whine you hear in reverse.
My belt snapped last week never buying a french van ever again!
Chain is the way to go
I've snapped a belt already this year. I'm cutting down on the carbs.
Thank you for the info Scotty!!!
Scotty you are right absolutely. I leave in Europe, and here ALMOST ALL the cars engines have a timing belt, all brands. I think BMW are the only one who still use chain, maybe i'm wrong. With that said, if one should only buy a car with a timing belt nowadays most probably he will need to buy an very expensive car, most peoples can't afford it. Luckily we still drive manual transmission :)
Thank-you a lot for your efforts and time to offer us so short and informative videos, some one talk for an hours to deliver less than you.
VW Tsi ahead of the game using bicycle chains as cam chains, Innovation at it's finest.
stilkus true that, I have a VW Tiguan with a timing chain and no issues. I had an 2008 Passat with a timing belt and had issues.
My 09 A4 is at 122k. Feels like a ticking time bomb under the hood.
So does BMW :)
It's always the vw chain tensioners that fail which causes the engine to jump time and break valves. Mostly due to people not checking their oil. Very common on early vw cc, eos, b6 passat, mk 5 & 6 gti. There's even a warranty extension on it.
Timing chains where not all sunshine and lollipops. For a while (in the 70's at least), GM was using nylon coated teeth on the timing gears to make the chains run quieter. The nylon on the teeth would give out over time and cause the chain to jump one or more teeth. This was obviously better than breaking a belt. But it did cause the engine to quit running, sometimes without warning. It was a popular choice to replace the nylon toothed gears with all steel units when they failed.
My 1969 350 Camero with a nylon coated cam sprocket jumped a tooth at 60K. Happen while starting so only minor damage. Went to the "speed shop" and bought a double link roller chain and sprockets kit. The shop said it might be "kind of loud". So was the whole engine and exhaust so..... "so what".
Ran fine until I sold it with 140K and man, I wish I still had that car.
They were non interference tho. Also with the old GM engines with EGR your best bet was to change the cam and lifters if they were still stock because they would heat up get soft and wear out the lobes closer to the EGR.
70s GM cars were junk. I had a 77 chevy Nova 305 V8. Valve guides drilled crooked resulting in broken rocker arms, Carb only bolted with 2 bolts, constantly working loose, Rear leaf springs broke, Landau vinyl roof caused rust around "fake" porthole window. differential cover leaked oil when new. body sheet metal not straight.The worst car I have ever owned. Timing chain was about the only thing that did not break LOL
GallopingTrader all of us GM guys already got that memo and we already swapped those nylon gears out immediately. Let’s put that behind us and move forward
So true and all GM V's, had that nylon coat. 95 % of the time it failed and slipped timing was on cold start, the back lash of
the timing chain associated with the backfire would do the already weak nylon in and valve timing would jump 10-30 degrees
out. As it was that was good, with the no start/no run it kept the valves safe from being bent or pistons from being shattered.
I have a Honda with gear driven cams. It's a 700cc V4 Interceptor and only has two wheels. It does make a slight whining noise like you said but with motorcycles and the constant mesh transmission gears they always make a whining noise to some degree and it's not very noticeable over the exhaust anyway. Nice accurate description and presentation.
100% CORRECT SCOTTY I LEARNED THE HARD WAY. PERFECTLY GOOD CAR BELT BROKE SOLD CAR FOR SCRAP. ONLY TIMING CHAIN FOR ME GOING FORWARD!!!