This was literally APA's first full split and he won it + player of the series for the final. He has improved drastically and has a really fun personality too. I really love that his team has his back. APA has a bright future ahead of him.
APA is regarded as a ziggs one trick yet was able to pull out multiple different picks this playoffs to success. Such as one of the C9 games where 7 mid laners were banned and he proceeded to pick Trist and do really well with it even though he wasn’t completely aware of some of the nuances of the champion. I’ve been indifferent about APA since his joining TL but he’s really passed up my expectations, even if sometimes he still does some goofy shit. I think he will actually end up being really good. Much deserved title.
You sort of touched on it at the end, but this is now back-to-back splits where the LCS champion is not the strongest roster on paper (or even close to it) but instead the team who simply worked best together. I think this is an interesting topic worth exploring, whether or not it's just a coincidence, if it's a trend mirrored in other regions, what changes may have pushed the game towards this state, and is it possible for teams to scout players who work well together or does great synergy just happen by chance?
At least for now, teams in the West are more closely skilled than in the LCK, LPL. The top 3 teams in the LCK seem untouchable, LPL is filled with old faces at the top too. I think one of the main reasons being the mid-centric meta which is filled with AP mages, thus favoring midlane players who have a lot of experience. Hence why Caps in the LEC was also kinda smurfing this split.
@@arthenis15 Thats true, but also the top 3 rosters in the LCK at least also work really, really well together. There is literally no team in the world closer than T1, and everyone on GenG and HLE have either worked together or had friendly rivalries going for years. DRX with Teddy and Rascal is, on paper, strong enough they should have been competing with KDF and FOX for 6th. Instead they were never really in the running, and thats purely down to team synergy just not being there.
You're dead on: this was an awesome weekend to watch. Umti, Apa, and Impact all stepped up and played lights out these two series. I'd love to see a good solid breakdown of how Umti did his stuff this weekend. He was the primary reason TL made such easy work of C9. Like, his Volibear in game 2 was.. very poorly piloted until about the 15th minute or so.. then he pulled it out in game 3 and was the easy MVP.. and considering how amazing his game 1 was, it's a travesty that he didn't get Player of the Series.
Thanks for the reminder about nrg vs g2 gonna get my monthly highlights rewatch in right now. But also excited to see TL and FLY on the msi stage, hope they show up this year!
With TL getting first and MSI coming up you should take another look of TL vs IG in 2019 MSI. I think that's a lot better to watch to get ready for this year's MSI! They're gonna make NA proud again!
I was also losing my mind over Fly drafts and especially the repeated Annie pick for Jensen. Cannot understand what they were thinking there. Very frustrating but hopefully they get it together for MSI. Will be cheering Fly and TL on!
I am glad later APA mentioned all the people around him and how much they helped. I was worried he would focus only on him which a true champion typically doesn't do.
I think on the Veterans vs New Players discussion - it's important that the team has fewer, focused shotcalling. I think that was part of both Flyquest AND TL's success this split.
The APA champ pool discussion has always been overstated imo. Its clear he can play Ziggs, Asol, Taliyah at a really high level, but he also has Neeko, Trist, and a serviceable Ahri and Azir. People remember him getting caught tping in sidelane on Azir but he was playing well that game.
Props to TL, for real. I’ll be honest, all split long I considered APA to be the weak point of the team because of his champion pool, but their run through playoffs has demonstrated that APA is a huge lynch pin for this team- either you ban out his stuff, or you deal with a late game A-sol or a ziggs taking towers before you can react, not to mention his Taliyah has become a very real threat. I’m still a little concerned about his international performance because I think better teams will be able to punish him, but I am no longer an APA doubter.
That and Yeon's Smolder. If you ban three of those four, you're leaving some big champs open. I'm so interested to see how teams ban against them in drafts at MSI
Quick addon since I didn't hear you mention it: 2022 EG and 2024 TL's path to the Title are the exact same all the way down to their placements at the end of the split, the placement of the team they faced, the "superteam" narrative, and the domination of playoffs. Even the scorelines of each series are the same.
Impact is now very much a contender for LCS GOAT, Spawn is as good as it gets when it comes to a Western Head Coach, and both Apa+Yeon are developing into solid carries. Not to mention CoreJJ returning to form and Umti slotting in perfectly as well. Gotta give props to Team Liquid.
TL stomped FLY. It was crazy and like that Bwipo afk midlane was tragic af. But also, I wonder how much Richard Su’s admin leave impacted them, if at all. Anyway, I hope this TL team gives the same vibe as NRG at worlds - underdog champions = top west team internationally!
For what felt like all split long, I kept seeing livechat dump on APA. I wasn't even a TL fan at the start of the split, but I kept wanting to see them do well just because f*ck haters man. Was hoping that FLY would win it all as I actually was a fan of theirs right from the start (and still am! Love Bwipo Jensen Inspired!)... ... but seeing the narrative turn from "APA trash Ziggs one trick" to "APA only mid who can play Asol and Ziggs as well as metas" was a JOY to see lol. Congrats TL and APA!
Bwipo cursed himself by taking his victory lap after 3-0ing C9. APA’s improvement on his side lane play really shone through this series and their last!
hey jatt loved the podcast! do you think bwipo just picking to win his lane hurt flyquest more then if he would have just picked an even or bad match up to fit the team better?? examples are olaf in game 1 with karma, gragas in game 3, maybe even just taking ksante himself in game 4. like i get he was really fed on gp and ahead of TF but he never translated that into teamfight victories. he misplayed a couple of times so maybe he could have carried but just couldn't perform. even the casters said that GP has to be played to almost perfection to carry 1v9. it felt like they had no faith in their botlane to play a losing match up hence the ash bans and first picking kalista when yeon has been first picking varus pretty much the whole of playoffs.
The only realistic teams that had a shot to win were FLY and TL, the rest of the field including C9 looked awful. FLY somehow also managed to not show up today. Sometimes you play well and get some luck along the way, just hopefully its not too overblown what happened with the rest of the teams.
Reapered said it best on Twitter, Azir global ban had a massive impact on playoffs. Azir as a champ HARD punishes a lot of APA's champs, would require them to either ban it or pick it themselves to not get punished by it. Azir disable helped TL so damn much
Super hard cope. TL could've just as easily played azir also if it was available. C9 played like turbo dogshit and went 0-6. Maybe c9 shouldn't have been so reliant on 1 champion
10:44 Thank god this narrative is being shattered more and more, was always a thing people said "your reaction times get worse when you're older, etc..." meanwhile look at the fighting game community. More and more people realize as esports gets older that this is not real, still just funny to see people push this idea. As long as you adapt, and continue to perform , always willing to learn etc.. its winnable
On the topic of teambuilding, the discourse has gotten weirdly back around to the idea of "we need young players" again and I think this line of thinking is missing the forest for the trees. The real secret to success is to find five players who agree on how to play the game and have playstyles that synergize well together in support of that playstyle objective. Young players make this easier to accomplish because they're more malleable in how they play the game, but if they were the secret to success the whole time IMT would have made playoffs at the very least this split. If this win demonstrates anything, it's that competent roster building and effective coaching are the real recipe to success and that super teams succeeding are relics of the past in NA.
Maybe this is a disservice to APA but his career feels like NFL Tebow atm. Where people think so lowly of his talent but then you look at the results and its like he just keeps succeeding. He steps in to arguably the most important role in Pro League, was a big part of saving the TL roster in LCS summer and getting them to Worlds, then comes into this split and wins it all, and wins finals MVP
The best schadenfreude is the salt doublelift will have after digging up that drama between him and Dodo about TL wanting Jojo & DL this split, and TL STILL won the split anyway without him. DL definitely crying into the pillow tonight.
@@MrDespisedIcon Cope. We don't know how important APA and Yeon are to the team environment, and that's way more important than the 'level' of the players. You don't need the best players in the league to win the LCS cup, you just need the team that vibes the best with each other.
great episode - however, you can't get mad at Summit and Pyosik for playing to carry the game themselves given the performance of the rest of the team last year.
Is it fair to say to that the LCS collapsed around TL? Korea and China have so many close games/series at the top level yet in NA it never feels like outplays but mistakes
Busio was playing tahm against long range consistent damage. Idk I don’t think he was playing poorly, but he isn’t in a place to carry. He did some interesting stuff with the rumble pick too but it just wasn’t enough.
Summit has literally never accomplished anything in post season and despite being consistently problematic in post season, has decided to blame his former teams lmao
Lets be honest, APA played really well this playoff but i dont see him doing anything international.. zigg and asol can only be playing in NA, korea and china will make him pay for those kind of picks
Kind of funny but there seems to be so little humility in esports. There's going to be a rather unstable person/player/staff that might take some of this stuff not well and the reaction might be truly shocking. US is crazy AF and violent. It's just a matter of time before someone gets taken to the floor.
Damn. I knew someone would eventually fly off the handle and do something crazy. Sad to hear it, hope nothing too bad happened. I'm not familiar with the incident you are referring to.@@spaghettivase4808
Normally I agree, but to be fair, FLY definitely did it first, and in the most annoying way possible. When you have CoreJJ trash talking a team, you know that it's probably justified.
@@proteuswest1084exactly, I don't think people should trash talk after the fact if it's completely unprovoked, but Bwipo went on multiple podcasts this past week talking about how bad Yeon is ("SHOCKING, JUST SHOCKING" in his words), so I can sympathize with him in this case lol
Jatt making up for a whole split of podcasts😂
This was literally APA's first full split and he won it + player of the series for the final. He has improved drastically and has a really fun personality too. I really love that his team has his back. APA has a bright future ahead of him.
I see you on twitter today and now here too.
Thank goodness, someone with something nice to say
@@van2810 hi :3
@@acatwithwiskers9273 idk why people give him so much shit. glad to see him succeeding.
Hope he continues to only get stronger :)
Glad Yeon is becoming a bigger personality
APA is regarded as a ziggs one trick yet was able to pull out multiple different picks this playoffs to success. Such as one of the C9 games where 7 mid laners were banned and he proceeded to pick Trist and do really well with it even though he wasn’t completely aware of some of the nuances of the champion. I’ve been indifferent about APA since his joining TL but he’s really passed up my expectations, even if sometimes he still does some goofy shit. I think he will actually end up being really good. Much deserved title.
APA is making Doublelift proud for backing up his trash talk in such a strong fashion.
Hope they make us proud at MSI.
doublelift was trashing him this whole split right up until the last couple games of the finals.
Jensen had to bring out the Annie to honor the coach that got suspended o7
Why was the coach suspended?
You sort of touched on it at the end, but this is now back-to-back splits where the LCS champion is not the strongest roster on paper (or even close to it) but instead the team who simply worked best together. I think this is an interesting topic worth exploring, whether or not it's just a coincidence, if it's a trend mirrored in other regions, what changes may have pushed the game towards this state, and is it possible for teams to scout players who work well together or does great synergy just happen by chance?
The top 3 rosters in lck and lpl are all the strongest on paper so it might just be an NA/western thing.
At least for now, teams in the West are more closely skilled than in the LCK, LPL. The top 3 teams in the LCK seem untouchable, LPL is filled with old faces at the top too. I think one of the main reasons being the mid-centric meta which is filled with AP mages, thus favoring midlane players who have a lot of experience. Hence why Caps in the LEC was also kinda smurfing this split.
@@arthenis15 Thats true, but also the top 3 rosters in the LCK at least also work really, really well together. There is literally no team in the world closer than T1, and everyone on GenG and HLE have either worked together or had friendly rivalries going for years.
DRX with Teddy and Rascal is, on paper, strong enough they should have been competing with KDF and FOX for 6th. Instead they were never really in the running, and thats purely down to team synergy just not being there.
@@mr.rainc0at614 yeah i think you're right. LCS is just in a weird place where the teams have been close together for a couple years.
You're dead on: this was an awesome weekend to watch. Umti, Apa, and Impact all stepped up and played lights out these two series. I'd love to see a good solid breakdown of how Umti did his stuff this weekend. He was the primary reason TL made such easy work of C9. Like, his Volibear in game 2 was.. very poorly piloted until about the 15th minute or so.. then he pulled it out in game 3 and was the easy MVP.. and considering how amazing his game 1 was, it's a travesty that he didn't get Player of the Series.
Nah APA had the series of his career so far, think he earned the MVP
the speed is appreciated, im digging this
Jatt's learning from APA: As soon as the game is done he legs it off stage! :D
@@OneWingedRose Pops Ghost
4:04 this is such a great point that I had never really thought about consciously. Just one more reason The General is so easy to root for.
Great to see some actual personality come out of the players that are usually robotic in their media interviews.
let’s goooo JLXP is so back. Thank you for uploading so fast king
Thanks for the reminder about nrg vs g2 gonna get my monthly highlights rewatch in right now. But also excited to see TL and FLY on the msi stage, hope they show up this year!
With TL getting first and MSI coming up you should take another look of TL vs IG in 2019 MSI. I think that's a lot better to watch to get ready for this year's MSI! They're gonna make NA proud again!
@@thijsschenk2493 great recommendation, i'll check it out!
This episode made me realise something. Impact is like a perfect version of peak Dyrus
Not that it would have meant that Fly would have won, but Azir being disabled was the main reason that TL coukd ban out Jensen the way they did.
I've been looking at Umti since his JAG days, when he said he didn't have a career till this point hit a bit hard to me. WP Jungle King!!!
I cried hard. I've been rooting for him for years and hoping he gets on a good team. So proud of him man.
I was also losing my mind over Fly drafts and especially the repeated Annie pick for Jensen. Cannot understand what they were thinking there. Very frustrating but hopefully they get it together for MSI. Will be cheering Fly and TL on!
Feels like they were heavily impacted by their coach being put on leave
I think you also got baited by a bad graphic when they announced APA as player of the series, but he died 6 times in the series, 1 time in their wins.
ah ty for the catch
I am glad later APA mentioned all the people around him and how much they helped. I was worried he would focus only on him which a true champion typically doesn't do.
i love JLXP so much man, thanks for doing it!
I think on the Veterans vs New Players discussion - it's important that the team has fewer, focused shotcalling. I think that was part of both Flyquest AND TL's success this split.
Good start to the discussion. Looking forward to the Dive's take as well.
Been waiting for this :)
Great season!
Great video, great insights
Love how you been coming out with these quick videos! I think you should always do a direct update on the games! Loving this! 💯
Damn love how fast you pumped these 2 podcasts out. Great work Jatt
The APA champ pool discussion has always been overstated imo. Its clear he can play Ziggs, Asol, Taliyah at a really high level, but he also has Neeko, Trist, and a serviceable Ahri and Azir. People remember him getting caught tping in sidelane on Azir but he was playing well that game.
this is the content I need during a busy and hectic week!
Make as many podcasts as often as you want! I'm here for it 🎉
lets goooo more content keep it up Jatt!
great analysis thanks jatt
Liked the review of the interview :)
Props to TL, for real. I’ll be honest, all split long I considered APA to be the weak point of the team because of his champion pool, but their run through playoffs has demonstrated that APA is a huge lynch pin for this team- either you ban out his stuff, or you deal with a late game A-sol or a ziggs taking towers before you can react, not to mention his Taliyah has become a very real threat. I’m still a little concerned about his international performance because I think better teams will be able to punish him, but I am no longer an APA doubter.
That and Yeon's Smolder. If you ban three of those four, you're leaving some big champs open. I'm so interested to see how teams ban against them in drafts at MSI
I think when APA can relax/have some confidence he is a different player. Or he just unlocked the trash talk buff and is unstoppable now XD
The best league podcast TRUE !
Jatts predictions are always spot on!
I'm so happy for TL. APA winning finals MVP was the cherry on top of an amazing run
hell yeah TL! Let's go to MSI with chins up.
Quick addon since I didn't hear you mention it:
2022 EG and 2024 TL's path to the Title are the exact same all the way down to their placements at the end of the split, the placement of the team they faced, the "superteam" narrative, and the domination of playoffs. Even the scorelines of each series are the same.
ive always been the biggest team liquid hater bc of their past but i was so surprised to find myself really rooting for them
YAPA CLEARS LET'S GOO
Impact is now very much a contender for LCS GOAT, Spawn is as good as it gets when it comes to a Western Head Coach, and both Apa+Yeon are developing into solid carries. Not to mention CoreJJ returning to form and Umti slotting in perfectly as well. Gotta give props to Team Liquid.
As a heads up, this isn't up on Spotify yet
TL stomped FLY. It was crazy and like that Bwipo afk midlane was tragic af. But also, I wonder how much Richard Su’s admin leave impacted them, if at all. Anyway, I hope this TL team gives the same vibe as NRG at worlds - underdog champions = top west team internationally!
TL Jatt
Impact's interview fucking killed me. 😂
For what felt like all split long, I kept seeing livechat dump on APA. I wasn't even a TL fan at the start of the split, but I kept wanting to see them do well just because f*ck haters man.
Was hoping that FLY would win it all as I actually was a fan of theirs right from the start (and still am! Love Bwipo Jensen Inspired!)...
... but seeing the narrative turn from "APA trash Ziggs one trick" to "APA only mid who can play Asol and Ziggs as well as metas" was a JOY to see lol. Congrats TL and APA!
TL Jatt is back
Bwipo cursed himself by taking his victory lap after 3-0ing C9.
APA’s improvement on his side lane play really shone through this series and their last!
i think the camera angle is a little too close, but ofc more JLXP is welcomed
Why is this not Audio Podcast platforms?
hey jatt loved the podcast! do you think bwipo just picking to win his lane hurt flyquest more then if he would have just picked an even or bad match up to fit the team better?? examples are olaf in game 1 with karma, gragas in game 3, maybe even just taking ksante himself in game 4. like i get he was really fed on gp and ahead of TF but he never translated that into teamfight victories. he misplayed a couple of times so maybe he could have carried but just couldn't perform. even the casters said that GP has to be played to almost perfection to carry 1v9. it felt like they had no faith in their botlane to play a losing match up hence the ash bans and first picking kalista when yeon has been first picking varus pretty much the whole of playoffs.
missed JLXP so much
I did not realize their drafting coach was put on leave right before finals that would explain a lot xD these drafts definitely were not it.
Why is there so much attention for the TL redemption, when FLY where thrash talking first when they beat TL?
The only realistic teams that had a shot to win were FLY and TL, the rest of the field including C9 looked awful. FLY somehow also managed to not show up today.
Sometimes you play well and get some luck along the way, just hopefully its not too overblown what happened with the rest of the teams.
You know the pogstate is great, but I wish the LCK had some kind of regular content for the global audience like Josh does here for the LCS
Reapered said it best on Twitter, Azir global ban had a massive impact on playoffs. Azir as a champ HARD punishes a lot of APA's champs, would require them to either ban it or pick it themselves to not get punished by it. Azir disable helped TL so damn much
So TL needs an asterisk
Super hard cope. TL could've just as easily played azir also if it was available. C9 played like turbo dogshit and went 0-6. Maybe c9 shouldn't have been so reliant on 1 champion
Copium buddy
Wrong apa cannot play azir@@Asashirii
@@AsashiriiThe issue with C9 was it was JoJo or bust that team was awful.
i know season is over, but can we just get more Jatt content thru the off season? even if you dont have LCS stuff to talk about, lets talk basketball.
I love APA but he died a total of 7 times (or so). He died once on victories only. This doesn't diminish his insane stat though
I'll be cheering for TL but I can't wait to see BLG at MSI.
As unrealistic as it seems after this regular split, there's a chance blg might not be there. It's LPL after all - crazier things have happened.
10:44 Thank god this narrative is being shattered more and more, was always a thing people said "your reaction times get worse when you're older, etc..." meanwhile look at the fighting game community. More and more people realize as esports gets older that this is not real, still just funny to see people push this idea. As long as you adapt, and continue to perform , always willing to learn etc.. its winnable
Could say that Impact made Faker great😊.
On the topic of teambuilding, the discourse has gotten weirdly back around to the idea of "we need young players" again and I think this line of thinking is missing the forest for the trees. The real secret to success is to find five players who agree on how to play the game and have playstyles that synergize well together in support of that playstyle objective. Young players make this easier to accomplish because they're more malleable in how they play the game, but if they were the secret to success the whole time IMT would have made playoffs at the very least this split. If this win demonstrates anything, it's that competent roster building and effective coaching are the real recipe to success and that super teams succeeding are relics of the past in NA.
Theres lots to like about FLY (the org and mid/botlane mainly) but it feels so good to see Bwipo and Inspired being humbled.
Impact is the NA toplane goat and IMO he actually got snubbed out of MVP by APA….but his ADCs don’t ALWAYS look better with him lol. 2022 FLY summer.
I want to golf with jatt
Maybe this is a disservice to APA but his career feels like NFL Tebow atm. Where people think so lowly of his talent but then you look at the results and its like he just keeps succeeding. He steps in to arguably the most important role in Pro League, was a big part of saving the TL roster in LCS summer and getting them to Worlds, then comes into this split and wins it all, and wins finals MVP
The best schadenfreude is the salt doublelift will have after digging up that drama between him and Dodo about TL wanting Jojo & DL this split, and TL STILL won the split anyway without him. DL definitely crying into the pillow tonight.
True but given the level of competition in the playoffs, TL with Jojo and DL could have easily won too
@@MrDespisedIcon Cope. We don't know how important APA and Yeon are to the team environment, and that's way more important than the 'level' of the players. You don't need the best players in the league to win the LCS cup, you just need the team that vibes the best with each other.
NA Vampires can't touch Impact 😂
Fly Quest underestimated TL and failed to show up when it mattered most.
great episode - however, you can't get mad at Summit and Pyosik for playing to carry the game themselves given the performance of the rest of the team last year.
Is it fair to say to that the LCS collapsed around TL? Korea and China have so many close games/series at the top level yet in NA it never feels like outplays but mistakes
The only team that collapsed was FLY, everyone else was pretty consistent.
Drafts from Fly were fine, Bwipo and Busio just hard chocked and Masu was afk.
hell no, those drafts were wack.
They played like usual but they had Jensen Annie instead of Jensen Ori.
That’s because Ori was banned every game and Jensens champ pool isn’t great when APA takes the Taliyah or they ban it. Double Annie pick was wild.
Busio was playing tahm against long range consistent damage. Idk I don’t think he was playing poorly, but he isn’t in a place to carry. He did some interesting stuff with the rumble pick too but it just wasn’t enough.
For context, FLY's drafting coach got put on leave last week because of some sort of scandal, so they were definitely at a disadvantage with drafting
I think Jatt really hates Summit, he never misses an opportunity to shit on him.
Summit has literally never accomplished anything in post season and despite being consistently problematic in post season, has decided to blame his former teams lmao
Lets be honest, APA played really well this playoff but i dont see him doing anything international.. zigg and asol can only be playing in NA, korea and china will make him pay for those kind of picks
Neither will Jojo or Jensen. Neither will FLY or C9 so it’s par for the course.
Bwipo and Inspired were way to cocky they thought they already won lol it's just embarrassing to get humbled by APA
Flyquest was so unlikable on how much shit they talk about. Glad TL won.
Don't care who wins as long as Bwipo doesn't.
Bwipo will won every game but will lose when it matters the most.
If they played finals vs immortals, they would lose
Kind of funny but there seems to be so little humility in esports. There's going to be a rather unstable person/player/staff that might take some of this stuff not well and the reaction might be truly shocking. US is crazy AF and violent. It's just a matter of time before someone gets taken to the floor.
Europe beat NA to it buddy.
Damn. I knew someone would eventually fly off the handle and do something crazy. Sad to hear it, hope nothing too bad happened. I'm not familiar with the incident you are referring to.@@spaghettivase4808
LCS is probably not gonna win a single game at MSI, considering how weak LCS looks this year.
Ooof, the title for this video showed up before I could finish watching the series today, dang. Sorry, gotta unfollow
Better to be gracious after you win. Talking after is tacky.
Normally I agree, but to be fair, FLY definitely did it first, and in the most annoying way possible. When you have CoreJJ trash talking a team, you know that it's probably justified.
U should prolly be happy that tl won then xd
They deserved to talk their shit.
Honestly I think the lack of a stadium was a big reason why there was so much trash talk. Felt less serious in some ways
@@proteuswest1084exactly, I don't think people should trash talk after the fact if it's completely unprovoked, but Bwipo went on multiple podcasts this past week talking about how bad Yeon is ("SHOCKING, JUST SHOCKING" in his words), so I can sympathize with him in this case lol
8:08