Nice intro video Dillon. 2L's and 3L's were only made by AirChime, and were dropped from production in the mid 1980's. The 1/2/3L's were originally produced for marine applications with a bronze power chamber, thus requiring the 2 piece design. There are actually two styles of big tag- the first ones were screen printed with a slightly brown background. Those were only produced in late 1976 to 1977. The one you showed was the late 1977-1978 inked big tag with the black background.
Thanks!! Chemical stripper is a good option to try but often times doesn’t work very well on real thick paint. Lowe’s sells a decent one called Quik strip. The best option I have found is to sand the bells down the best you can and then media blast them. I will eventually be making a shop series on my channel and I will go over my media blaster and how it works.
Thanks!! Chemical stripper is a good option to try but often times doesn’t work very well on real thick paint. Lowe’s sells a decent one called Quik strip. The best option I have found is to sand the bells down the best you can and then media blast them. I will eventually be making a shop series on my channel and I will go over my media blaster and how it works.
Thanks! Maybe I left that one out in the vid. I’ll have to go back and watch it haha. Yes! I have a couple 3B Kbells. I love a good K5HLB. I need to put one on the channel here soon
One thing I'd be interested in is specific K horn tuning. My Favorite K horns are these very unique Double Tag K5LAs that use a very special tuning based on how Robert Swanson himself would tune them. They're generally only found on Bombardier Bi-Level Cab Cars from the 80s to the 2000s, and i've always wanted to know how to replicate one.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge!!! I just bought a set of k3ha horns the were sand blasted do you recommend painting them and whats the best option for paint ? Thanks in advance. 👍
Are there any torque-values for the back-caps / diffuser-plate bolts? What about a torque-value for getting the bell mounted onto the air-manifold? (To make sure the o-ring is sealing correctly?)
Very informative instruction on K horns!!! Ive got another question for you. Do you know what K5s the West Coast Express cab cars were originally delivered with?? As far as I know, all Canadian passenger rolling stock in the early 90s were delivered with Doubletag K5LAs. And also what about the West Coast F59s?
Thanks! You know i’m not 100% sure what the cab cars were delivered with. I’m pretty sure the F59s were delivered with standard K5LAs but I could be wrong. My knowledge of those engines is limited.
Hey man, very helpful video!! Thanks for sharing!! I do have a question about Tags thought, more specifically the serial numbers. I've been trying to learn horns for a few months and have pretty much have everything covered, except the aforementioned serial numbers and a couple other things. So, when do they roughly date to? I've heard you talk about 14K, 97K, I've seen a 33K, etc. I'd imagine the K just stands for "thousand", like 14K is 14xxx, 33K is 33xxx, and so on. I've found a picture of a round tag non RL K5LA with the serial "33066". All I know is it has to be sometime between late 90s to the later 2000s when RL bells entered production. It's REALLY difficult to find a good source with correct information, especially with something that in depth where not many people have a keen interest in. Thanks in advance my guy!!
So the earliest tag Iv ever had/seen was a late 10k tag (10960) that was a square tag. It dates around 1995-96. Square tags ran till 1998ish. Tag# 17226 was supposedly the first round tag to be produced. Raised letter horns came into production in 2006 those were Late 40k Tags. From there the next change was in 2014 around the 100k tag number. That when the went to the curved “Nathan Airchime” on the back caps. Right now the most recent tag Iv seen is a 134k tag (2022)
@@TheHornKing hey man, i know it's been a year or so lol but i have a follow up question about a possible 30-40k tuning change. i've heard narrow font round tags in the 2000's be label as narrow font 2000's horns, with a notable change in the tuning of the 4 and 4A compared to narrow font round tags of the late 90's (4's and 4A's were allegedly flat on the narrow font 2000's bells). there definitely is a difference between the two, but i just wanted to ask if you could possibly narrow the serial # range down any further, to know what exact year/when these narrow font 2000's 4's and 4A's started rolling out.
I just got a K5LA from horn blasters today 2/4/22 and it's painted black, has wide font airchime printed on the back, no casting marks and no serial tag. Is this a knock off or is it just rebuilt?
@@TheHornKing ahhh I see. If possible please at some point could you do a video of long blasts from both a raised and lowered K5LA for sound comparison?
Just curious. So sometimes my k3la sounds nice and deep. And other times it seems like it’s not as deep as others. Could that be from cold weather, could it be one of the o-rings? All helped appreciated
Great content! I have a question? Can you port match the hole that’s in the base to match the same diameter that’s in the chamber behind the defuser? Or that’s something that meters the amount of air that goes in the trumpet itself?
Thanks! The ports on the bottom of the feet are designed that way to allow the appropriate amount of air volume to enter the Power chamber. I’m honestly not sure what would happen if you drilled it out. I would imagine the bell would get louder and more harsh sounding. You may have issues blowing Diaphragms. Maybe I’ll make a video and try it on a bell!
Eventually I’ll get an updated K Horn video out. As far as tuning goes you really can’t tune a K horn. To truly re-tune one it would require machine work. However there is a paper shim method which I have never tried but I plan on doing one day. It doesn’t re-tune the horn but you can manipulate which bell comes in first when sounding
I have a K3L with no tag on the manifold, but rather wrapped over the 1 chime, I can't tell how old it is as it's been painted over. The 2 and 1 have no "AirChime" on the sides but rather numbers on both sides. How old would my horn be?
ive been wanting to buy my own horn and bells to mess around with configurations. i had 2 main questions. is it possible to put a leslie bell on a nathan manifold? and where is the best place to get individual bells?
So let’s talk shims… on my K5 my number five bell comes in pretty hot. Should I try a shim to hold it back a bit or would that make it come in sooner? I was a bit confused by that.
Yes! You can paint them. You can paint them together or you can disassemble them. If you paint them together stuff something down the bells so the paint doesn’t get on the diaphragms. If you disassemble them just tape off all of the internals. Also make sure the paint doesn’t clog the little holes on the back caps.
Some people believe it stands for low tone bell but as the factory stands it's for 1L (long bell) and Low manifold. Technically it's the same thing either way it's just how you want to personally say it. I've always referred to it as the name of the bell (1L) or “long” as I said in the video but your correct as well as it could be interpreted as low bell.
Considering these things are dummy easy to work on and they're mounted in a very wide open easy to access spot on locomotives, I'm very surprised that railways don't just rebuild them instead of spending much more on brand new horns which sound worse.
I'd say the K5HL is probably the most common K horn. Cool video.
Nice intro video Dillon.
2L's and 3L's were only made by AirChime, and were dropped from production in the mid 1980's. The 1/2/3L's were originally produced for marine applications with a bronze power chamber, thus requiring the 2 piece design.
There are actually two styles of big tag- the first ones were screen printed with a slightly brown background. Those were only produced in late 1976 to 1977. The one you showed was the late 1977-1978 inked big tag with the black background.
Awesome. Good to know! Thanks for the info!
Fantastic video that!! Really interesting!
It very cool to see the internal workings of these horns , keep on tootin !!!
Nice video! Answered a lot of questions I had
Very Nice Explanation actually And Very Nice Sounding On that K5LA Sounds Awesome!!!!!!!!😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
The K5LA is said to be the Godfather of all Train Horns.
Great video
Freaking awesome!!! Great stuff 👏
I appreciate it! hopefully it was informal.
I just got a k5la and wondered what is the best way to remove several layers of paint. I really enjoy your videos.
Thanks!! Chemical stripper is a good option to try but often times doesn’t work very well on real thick paint. Lowe’s sells a decent one called Quik strip. The best option I have found is to sand the bells down the best you can and then media blast them. I will eventually be making a shop series on my channel and I will go over my media blaster and how it works.
Thanks!! Chemical stripper is a good option to try but often times doesn’t work very well on real thick paint. Lowe’s sells a decent one called Quik strip. The best option I have found is to sand the bells down the best you can and then media blast them. I will eventually be making a shop series on my channel and I will go over my media blaster and how it works.
There is also a 3B bell, which is rare but there is some K5HLBs out there which have it and some other horns such as the K5LAB and K3LP
Thanks! Maybe I left that one out in the vid. I’ll have to go back and watch it haha. Yes! I have a couple 3B Kbells. I love a good K5HLB. I need to put one on the channel here soon
Great video. You really know these horns. Where did you find all these horns?
Thanks man and just years of collecting!
One thing I'd be interested in is specific K horn tuning. My Favorite K horns are these very unique Double Tag K5LAs that use a very special tuning based on how Robert Swanson himself would tune them. They're generally only found on Bombardier Bi-Level Cab Cars from the 80s to the 2000s, and i've always wanted to know how to replicate one.
That’s a good idea! Maybe I can put a video out like that in the future
I agree. I’d like to figure out what exact K5s VRE used to have on their geeps. I think they’re 80s chessie K5s but I’m not 100% sure.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge!!! I just bought a set of k3ha horns the were sand blasted do you recommend painting them and whats the best option for paint ? Thanks in advance. 👍
Thanks! I have a video on the channel showing how I paint horns and what paint I use.
Are there any torque-values for the back-caps / diffuser-plate bolts? What about a torque-value for getting the bell mounted onto the air-manifold? (To make sure the o-ring is sealing correctly?)
K5HA's are actually extremely rare. There's also a 3B bell which is still made today.
Yes I forgot to mention the 3B! I had one at one time but traded it off. Wish I still had it!
Do you happen to have a video of what each horn sounds like individually? I just rebuilt mine and want to see if they are sounding correctly.
Thanks
I actually don’t. I plan on doing a video of each individual bail I just haven’t got to it yet. Plan on doing K,P and Leslie bells
Very informative instruction on K horns!!! Ive got another question for you. Do you know what K5s the West Coast Express cab cars were originally delivered with?? As far as I know, all Canadian passenger rolling stock in the early 90s were delivered with Doubletag K5LAs. And also what about the West Coast F59s?
Thanks! You know i’m not 100% sure what the cab cars were delivered with. I’m pretty sure the F59s were delivered with standard K5LAs but I could be wrong. My knowledge of those engines is limited.
Hey man, very helpful video!! Thanks for sharing!! I do have a question about Tags thought, more specifically the serial numbers. I've been trying to learn horns for a few months and have pretty much have everything covered, except the aforementioned serial numbers and a couple other things. So, when do they roughly date to? I've heard you talk about 14K, 97K, I've seen a 33K, etc. I'd imagine the K just stands for "thousand", like 14K is 14xxx, 33K is 33xxx, and so on. I've found a picture of a round tag non RL K5LA with the serial "33066". All I know is it has to be sometime between late 90s to the later 2000s when RL bells entered production. It's REALLY difficult to find a good source with correct information, especially with something that in depth where not many people have a keen interest in. Thanks in advance my guy!!
So the earliest tag Iv ever had/seen was a late 10k tag (10960) that was a square tag. It dates around 1995-96. Square tags ran till 1998ish. Tag# 17226 was supposedly the first round tag to be produced. Raised letter horns came into production in 2006 those were Late 40k Tags. From there the next change was in 2014 around the 100k tag number. That when the went to the curved “Nathan Airchime” on the back caps. Right now the most recent tag Iv seen is a 134k tag (2022)
@@TheHornKing Ah alright, thank you so much man, really appreciate it. So a 33K would probably fall somewhere in 03' or 04'?
No problem and yea probably 2003
@@TheHornKing hey man, i know it's been a year or so lol but i have a follow up question about a possible 30-40k tuning change. i've heard narrow font round tags in the 2000's be label as narrow font 2000's horns, with a notable change in the tuning of the 4 and 4A compared to narrow font round tags of the late 90's (4's and 4A's were allegedly flat on the narrow font 2000's bells). there definitely is a difference between the two, but i just wanted to ask if you could possibly narrow the serial # range down any further, to know what exact year/when these narrow font 2000's 4's and 4A's started rolling out.
I just got a K5LA from horn blasters today 2/4/22 and it's painted black, has wide font airchime printed on the back, no casting marks and no serial tag. Is this a knock off or is it just rebuilt?
Idk man if you want to send me some pics of it on Instagram I’ll date it for you
@@TheHornKing what's your ig?
Just search “thehornking” and you should beable to find it.
Hi! Great video. I am very impressed with your knowledge. Is there a difference in sound between a raised letter K5LA and a non raised one?
Thanks!! Yes generally the non raised letter are abit more mellow and not as harsh as the raised letter
@@TheHornKing ahhh I see. If possible please at some point could you do a video of long blasts from both a raised and lowered K5LA for sound comparison?
I have a AirChime 3 with a tag on it serial No. 58889 is there anything you could tell me about it just from that?
hey cool video! who is easier to overtake is it k horns or p horns? and who is most durable? and who sounds the loudest?
I'm considering buying Kla3 or P3
As far as loudness the K series horns beat the P series. P horns are more air efficient though and have a slightly smaller footprint
Hi! What is it that make a horn "sand cast" as apposed to "die-cast" ? Also how can i tell if what mine is?
Just curious. So sometimes my k3la sounds nice and deep. And other times it seems like it’s not as deep as others. Could that be from cold weather, could it be one of the o-rings? All helped appreciated
Hi could you please elaborate on the paper shims? I would like to have a certain bell come in sooner than the others..
Great content! I have a question? Can you port match the hole that’s in the base to match the same diameter that’s in the chamber behind the defuser? Or that’s something that meters the amount of air that goes in the trumpet itself?
Thanks! The ports on the bottom of the feet are designed that way to allow the appropriate amount of air volume to enter the Power chamber. I’m honestly not sure what would happen if you drilled it out. I would imagine the bell would get louder and more harsh sounding. You may have issues blowing Diaphragms. Maybe I’ll make a video and try it on a bell!
Can you make a vid on how to tune a k5?
Eventually I’ll get an updated K Horn video out. As far as tuning goes you really can’t tune a K horn. To truly re-tune one it would require machine work. However there is a paper shim method which I have never tried but I plan on doing one day. It doesn’t re-tune the horn but you can manipulate which bell comes in first when sounding
Where can i buy a K5 H manifold? i have the bells but no manifold
Best place would probably be eBay if you can find one. Hornblasters sells them but they are $$$
Hi buddy how can I safely remove my painted k5la I want to remove all the old paint
Generally media blasting is the most effective just don’t blast the internals of the horn. You can also use chemical paint stripper
Wow, I always thought Raised Letter had to do with the pitch!
Thank you!
Do you still have that K5LLA?
Not that exact one but I have a newer one that’s identical
I have a K3L with no tag on the manifold, but rather wrapped over the 1 chime, I can't tell how old it is as it's been painted over. The 2 and 1 have no "AirChime" on the sides but rather numbers on both sides. How old would my horn be?
Sounds like you’ve got a Canadian sandcast K3L. Can you read the tag number on the number 1?
@@TheHornKing Sorry never got back to you! The tag is unfortunately painted over so I cannot read it.
ive been wanting to buy my own horn and bells to mess around with configurations. i had 2 main questions. is it possible to put a leslie bell on a nathan manifold? and where is the best place to get individual bells?
eBay would be your best bet and no Leslie and Nathan bells are not compatible
So let’s talk shims… on my K5 my number five bell comes in pretty hot. Should I try a shim to hold it back a bit or would that make it come in sooner? I was a bit confused by that.
Shimming will make it come in later because you’re adding preload to the nozzle. The other bells with no shims will sound first.
@@TheHornKing thanks! Anything you prefer for shimming? Cut out a ring of printer paper?
Yea that’s what Iv seen used before. You can also use wax paper as well if it’s going to be ran in the rain
What is the diffuser made of? I’ve got one that look to be chipped!
They are stainless steel
Can you paint these? I mounted a set of K5’s on my semi but theyre bare aluminum. Id like to paint them but i dont want to damage them. Any tips?
Yes! You can paint them. You can paint them together or you can disassemble them. If you paint them together stuff something down the bells so the paint doesn’t get on the diaphragms. If you disassemble them just tape off all of the internals. Also make sure the paint doesn’t clog the little holes on the back caps.
i want one of them shirts bro
Pretty sweet right! I have a Leslie supertyfon shirt as well. A friend of mine hooked me up with these!
how tight do the backcap screws need to be, and does it affect the sound?
Just snugged down real good. I don’t think there is a specific torque speck for them.
I can't get the bolts off. You got any ideas ?
You can apply heat but you risk damaging the cushion ring if it’s the back cap bolts. Sometimes that’s the only way though
do you sell horns?
L means low bell and low manifold on a K5LLA
Some people believe it stands for low tone bell but as the factory stands it's for 1L (long bell) and Low manifold. Technically it's the same thing either way it's just how you want to personally say it. I've always referred to it as the name of the bell (1L) or “long” as I said in the video but your correct as well as it could be interpreted as low bell.
Did you ever make a paper shim video?
Not yet but that’s still a video I want to make.
@@TheHornKing Can it be done on a PVC horn?
What is the wall thickness of that sand casted bell?
I’m out of town with work but I’ll get back to you as soon as I can!
Between 5.3-5.7mm on the bell flair
Considering these things are dummy easy to work on and they're mounted in a very wide open easy to access spot on locomotives, I'm very surprised that railways don't just rebuild them instead of spending much more on brand new horns which sound worse.
I agree. Lots of times they will throw off a horn that’s just a few years old if the loco goes for a re fit.
Sell one for me please....
K5LAs are one of the most overrated horn by railfans 😍😍