I love how RUclips can serve as your format for sharing tutorials AND as your calling card! You do such beautiful work--if only more people took pride in their jobs--but glad that you're one of the good contractors out there. And your clients must be thrilled, knowing that they can always count on your integrity...and gorgeous results to both enjoy every day and show off to people who visit them. :)
But dont you still need to water proof the walls? Yea it's getting tilled but water can still penetrate the grout lines, I've seen people water proof using red guard and Schuter products for walls just wondering if that necessary I'd think for a completely waterproof wall it is but I'm not one to cut corners
I have another video about waterproofing you should watch. It isn't that I reject all waterproofing but that I believe there are circumstances where it is needed and circumstances where it may not be needed. I've torn apart a lot of bathrooms in my day, most of which included tile over wallboard. That's something we don't do anymore (for good reason) but in examining those bathrooms as I tore them down, I was able to see where problems develop and where they don't. Where tile was properly installed and grout/caulk was maintained over the years or decades, water intrusion simply wasn't a problem--even over wallboard! If you watch some of my other videos you'll see I use a multi-layer flashing system for the first three or four feet of height underneath the hardibacker when I have a tub or shower pan. That protection is there in case the homeowners fail to maintain caulk, or there is some future structural shifting, or whatever. The tile over the hardibacker (which I prefer over the porous and crumbly brands of backer) keeps water out of the wall cavity. Now, if I know a shower will be used constantly in a big family, or I expect heavy use for some other reason, or if I'm not liking the venting or structure of a bath for some reason, then I may choose to install Schluter membrane over the backer. Same goes for when I'm tiling a shower floor, of course. But, I don't believe every single shower must be plastered with Redgard or Schluter membrane no matter what, and therefore I save my clients the extra expense of that work if I don't feel it's necessary. There are bathrooms many decades old now, built before Redgard or Schluter existed, and they haven't melted yet.
I've taken apart at least 60-70 bathrooms, some over 30 years old. I've never seen a single screw hole leak water into the stud bay. When I tile a shower floor, I use Schluter waterproofing membrane on the floor and up the walls. For shower pans and bathtubs, I may waterproof the corners with the same membrane and I use a flashing system behind the hardibacker cement board that I prefer. Other than that, waterproofing isn't an issue. Take a look at this old video: ruclips.net/video/xk7lNudSV2Q/видео.html
Thanks for the video. Suppose the shower enclosure is not well maintained by the owner and moisture makes its way down the vapor barrier and flashing tape. Am I to leave weep holes in the sanded caulk where the tile meets the shower pan? I imagine that it would necessary but it would also look unfinished if I do. Thoughts?
+david lawlor There's a lot of confusion on this point. The flashing is there in case something goes catastrophically wrong. If you actually have streams of water getting behind the tile and backerboard, then you have a serious issue and weepholes will be the least of your concern! Water vapor or moisture migrating through grout lines due to heavy use or whatever will not require weep holes, it will slowly dry out during times of non-use. In the bathrooms I've remodeled where streams of water have actually flowed past the backer and into the wall or the space below there was serious structural issues. One case was a poorly framed condo that had a shower corner open up completely over a period of a decade because the studs moved. Another was a mentally challenged man under professional supervision who routinely showered without the curtain closed and over a period of years the floor rotted out, causing the tub to sink and open up cracks in the wall. The flashing is there as a stopgap in cases like this, not for routine use. So, grout well and keep the grout maintained and go ahead and caulk the bottom of the tile. If you believe the framing or the house is subject to minor seasonal movement due to the heating cycle you can also caulk the corners. The caulk is flexible and will move rather than crack. Weep holes are not needed.
No def not if done properly it's not a problem. Vapor barriers can be a moisture nightmare trapping condensation in the walls creating mold. You want to waterproof vapor barrier should be between a exterior wall and the siding or whatever your house is finished with not after the insulation on the inside.
Great work! I’m considering laying 12x24 tiles in my tub surround . I noticed most people use ledger boards to support the weight of the tiles . I noticed you didn’t Because the shower pan is leveled . How long did you wait to tile the second row? And each following thereafter .
Most of the time I also use a ledger board to start the second row and then go back later to hand fit the first row. Once in a while it just happens to work out that the pan is dead level, but it isn't often. If I'm using modified thinset over hardibacker cement board then by the end of the day I will have reached the top of the shower and I can go back down to remove the ledger and fit the first row. Or, if I'm coming back the next day to tile the floor I may just wait till then. But, if you have a row supported by a ledger or by the pan you can keep right on tiling.
I've done a couple dozen bath remodels since this video, so I don't recall the details. What you are asking, though, is how to handle the bottom row? Most typically I will install a plywood ledger to support the SECOND row. The ledger is installed (if possible) so that the first row installation will require a slight trimming of the tiles to insure a perfect fit. After the upper rows are secure, I remove the ledger and hand fit the first row. That said, sometimes you just get lucky and the shower pan or tub happens to be dead-on level. In that case, you can install the first row on the pan or tub ledge and work your way up.
The brand is really not important. I use three or four different brands depending on what is available. However, for applying tile onto cement backerboard I choose a modified thinset, which has latex additives for additional strength and flexibility.
Beautiful work you know your stuff I’ve been doing this for 20 years I would of love to see water proof red quart on that wonder board. Just saying that little extra detail is important. But that’s how I do it . Looks great anyway.
In situations where I feel actual waterproof construction is needed I'll use the Schluter membrane. Of course, I use that system anyway when tiling a shower floor.
Great video. I appreciate you walking through this. I've watched a few videos where the installer said that the 'running bond' pattern was not advisable with the 24" x 12" tile because tiles tend to 'hump' in the middle. That didn't seem to be an issue with this tile but I'm wondering if that was because it was an Italian tile? I purchased a porcelain tile (24" x 12") from Home Depot and I'm wondering if I can't do what you did here. Thoughts?
This is a great question. So, large format tile can be tricky because it naturally tends to cure with an arc to it. In other words, if you put two tiles face to face, you would typically see the faces touch in the middle with gaps at either end. Some tiles are worse than others. On a floor, especially, this fact can lead to "lippage" where one tile edge is slightly above an adjoining tile. Typically we install large format tile overlapping by thirds in order to mitigate this problem. Overlapping by half (the running bond pattern) can sometimes be done on tile up to 24 inches in length if the arc isn't too great. Longer than 24 inches and overlapping by half becomes unlikely. You need to examine each batch of tile to determine what you can and cannot do. And, actually, expensive Italian tile is usually worse in this regard than an inexpensive factory tile. I don't commit to a pattern until I've had a chance to open some boxes and put tile face to face to check for the arc.
@@enduringcharm Thank you for the detailed reply. That is exactly what I needed to know. I will go ahead and check my tile and make sure the overlap isn’t too bad. I also plan to use a tile leveling system to avoid lippage so I can just be more aware of where I put those leveling wedges. Once they dry obviously it should hold.
@@enduringcharm Great detailed explanation. I took my tiles and did just what you suggested and they were flat as can be so I overlapped at 50%. It turned out great! Thanks!
Love your videos. My question is, I have a similar shower pan. I am using 12x24 tiles. I want to tile about 3"past the front of the tile pan. I will be using a schulter edge. I'm on the fence on how to start my tiles. Do I set the 2nd row then go back a set the first row starting at the point past the shower base cutting around the pan and trimming the bottoms of the tiles on the remaining first row? I hope this makes sense. Thank you in advance for your help.
There's no real right or wrong in this instance, and I will sometimes start with the first row or sometimes with the second row depending on circumstances. In your case you have a very large tile which will need to be cut around the shower pan. That can be tricky to do, especially if you need to get the first row dead level for the second row to sit on. So in your case I'd recommend installing a temporary ledger to hold the second row and start there. Just make certain you are starting the second row in the right place. Find the low spot around the perimeter of the base if there is one, hold a tile there, and mark a line at the top. Your ledger should be a little below that to allow for "meat" for cutting when you do the first row. You may even choose to go much lower, depending on where the uppermost row will end. Anyway, once you get the other tiling done, go back and hand fit the first row of tiles. You may break some tiles or make bad cuts, but you'll know how many tile you have left by then. With a larger grout line you'll have a little bit of wiggle room in the event you don't get the row dead level. Also, with a 24 inch long tile you may find it has quite a bow in the middle--this is normal. So, if you are doing a running bond pattern (offset) you may need to do thirds, not halves, in order to avoid lippage.
It's easier to cut the tiles above when you can mark them from the actual shelf, but if you prefer the look of cutting the lower tile there's nothing wrong with that either.
Hello, excellent video. Is there a difference in longevity between hardibacker vs kerdi boards? Jut to get an idea how much did this project cost to remodel? thanks
Fiber cement products like Hardibacker have a long history and have been around for decades. It will certainly last the life of the bath or kitchen. Kerdiboard was introduced in 2010, so it has less history to judge. As for project costs, they vary widely depending on scope of project and costs in your area for materials and labor. Remodeling magazine publishes an annual cost comparison you might find helpful.
You make this look super easy and you're doing it by yourself!! Every contractor I've reached out to has a 'crew' that can do the job. It's a one man job LOL....why would I pay 5 guys to do 1 shower????
In regards to tiling a living area, should you remove the skirting boards before tiling, and then place them on top of the tiles, or just tile up to the existing skirting boards? Thanks!
+Michael and Jessica Marrinan By "skirt boards" I'm assuming you mean what I call the baseboard--the moulding around the perimeter of the room. I prefer to have the tile go under the baseboard. It looks better, and it allows the wood moulding to expand and contract with seasonal changes without forming gaps or cracking the tile. Some people also caulk the bottom edge of the baseboard, although that isn't strictly necessary.
+enduringcharm Yes baseboard is what I meant. Thanks! Very helpful! We are moving into a new house soon and tiling and painting are the first two jobs!
+gasmanrm My most popular question! I need to annotate the video on this point. Mesh tape is important when there is flexing between two sheets of the backer. The mesh and thinset stiffen that joint. If the framing is such that there is little or no flexing, and you are using a stiff backerboard brand like Hardibacker, then the mesh tape may be omitted. If I'm installing a smaller tile, though, I use it every time. Smaller tiles are more susceptible to movement.
It's been a long time, but that looks like it was a 48 inch unit. Those are typically 30 or 32 inches to the back, occasionally deeper. Be certain your selection fits in your opening.
First, it's hardiBACKER, not hardiBOARD, which is a different product. Typically on a floor 1/4 inch hardibacker is used under the tile, but the cement board provides no structural support. That is accomplished with layers of plywood. Take a look at my video on subfloors: ruclips.net/video/rmrLxfaGXyQ/видео.html
You can see from my other videos how I prepare the walls and flashing behind the backerboard. If I'm tiling both a floor and walls I'll use the Schluter system. I use hardibacker brand cement board and it is not necessary to waterproof that product. I do often apply Kerdi band in the corners, though, as seen from about 15:30 on in this video: ruclips.net/video/FYSZQp-Y_kI/видео.html
You should see some of my other videos about prepping and tiling shower areas where this is addressed. Ideally the cement backerboard comes over the flange, and I also like to flash behind the backerboard, overlapping the flange with a self-adhesive window flashing. Of course, if you are using the Schluter system or similar it has it's own detailing. Sometimes the circumstances prevent bringing the backerboard over the flange, in which case it is brought to the top of the flange and you must rely on that flashing I mentioned. In both cases the tile is brought over the flange, leaving a gap the same as your grout line. That gap is caulked with a silicone or grout-color-matched caulk.
Hey thanks for the fast response, I’m using a Grifform pan that has a generous height to the flange. Without furring out the studs the 1/2” backer board sets flush with the flange, can a guy tape and thin set the cbu pan flange junction and then cover that joint with something like mapei aquadefense, then tile over the joint on the flange?
If you can fur out the studs you should. If a wall cannot be furred out because it extends into the rest of the room you can put the backerboard on top of the flange and flash as I indicated. See this video: ruclips.net/video/psf9cnYoVts/видео.html
In some applications I'll use a waterproof membrane--I like the Schluter products. However, this was a shower pan not a tiled floor and in some circumstances the extra money and work to add a Schluter membrane simply isn't necessary. You'll see from my other videos that I install a series of flashing products behind the hardibacker in the event of some failure in the future.
Not a stupid question! Depending on the particular show I will put a little bit of pitch on the shelf, which can be done by just adding a little more thinset in the corner or by adjusting the corner with a sliver of cardboard. However, if you put too much pitch it looks bad to the eye. Plus, I think the concern about water runoff is often overblown. The shelves are fairly high and in a larger shower not that much water sprays there.
You are referring to a 1/3 overlap, I assume. This was asked previously, so let me just quote my previous explanation: "Large format tile can be tricky because it naturally tends to cure with an arc to it. In other words, if you put two tiles face to face, you would typically see the faces touch in the middle with gaps at either end. Some tiles are worse than others. On a floor, especially, this fact can lead to "lippage" where one tile edge is slightly above an adjoining tile. Typically we install large format tile overlapping by thirds in order to mitigate this problem. Overlapping by half (the running bond pattern) can sometimes be done on tile up to 24 inches in length if the arc isn't too great. Longer than 24 inches and overlapping by half becomes unlikely. You need to examine each batch of tile to determine what you can and cannot do. And, actually, expensive Italian tile is usually worse in this regard than an inexpensive factory tile. I don't commit to a pattern until I've had a chance to open some boxes and put tile face to face to check for the arc."
Yossi Khalon The size of the notches on the trowel depend on the size and weight of the tile being used. I would defer to what the tile manufacturer or your tile retailer recommends. The brand of thinset is really not too important in my eyes, but I do use a modified thinset when I have a cement backerboard or wallboard backer.
Thanks for reply. I see that you did not use red guard on the wall. Is that because you are putting porcelain tile or because it is not needed. Thanks in advance
Yossi Khalon Under some circumstances so-called "waterproofing" is not necessary, in some cases it may be a good idea. See this video of mine for more guidance: ruclips.net/video/xk7lNudSV2Q/видео.html
I respond to this question constantly, but I'll give it another go. The need for taping the joints depends on the quality and the design of the framing underneath, as well as the brand of backerboard being used. Taping can help prevent movement of the backerboard edges between two sheets when the framing is not ideal or when the spacing/positioning of the framing members allows movement. If, for example, a backerboard seam splits on a stud or on blocking then taping is not necessary. Also, some backerboard, such as hardibacker, is stuffer by nature and simply doesn't flex as much as others. In this particular shower I may not have felt taping was necessary. Other times I will use tape (or these days strips of kerdi membrane) to prevent movement. It just depends on the circumstances. The shower in the video is five years old now and I was at that client's home doing other work not long ago. There is no cracking or water intrusion. Other showers I've done are 15-20 years old now without issue. As for waterproofing, I do extensive flashing behind the backerboard which will prevent water intrusion should tile or grout or caulking fail in the future. If I'm tiling the floor I'll also run Kerdi mambrane up the walls. Sometimes I'll run the membrane in the corners if the framing is sketchy and I expect movement. I make judgement calls. Why not just use every possible technique there is out of an abundance of caution? Well, because bath remodels cost a lot of money. If I just blindly used every possible precaution I could think of for tiling, preparing walls, painting, preparing framing and subflooring, electrical, plumbing and fixture installation then the cost for my clients would be much greater. So, I use my professional judgement as to what is needed for a particular bath. In the last 15 years I've had only two bathroom callbacks. One for a dripping faucet which Moen supplied a new cartridge to fix, and one recently for some caulking that dried up and failed. I no longer use that manufacturer of caulk.
When I'm working alone I can generally do a small shower and the floor in one long day. Arrive and get the tools set up by 8:30, and I'm exiting the house and hosing down the tile saw by 6 or 7. However, if the shower is large, if the ceiling or the shower floor must be tiled, if there is a lot of decorative tile, or if the bathroom floor is large then I'll go into a second day. I hate having to set up the wet saw twice, but sometimes I have no choice.
My methods have evolved over the years. Currently I prepare corners installing a strip of Schluter Kerdi membrane, even if I am not installing it over the rest of the backerboard. Tis helps strengthen the corner and also waterproofs it if it ever opens up.
I'm not sure specifically what you're asking. In this pattern the tile was "wrapped" around the wall rather than ending at the corners. In doing so you also need to account for the bullnose tile. Plus, the dimensions of the wall and the tile are nominal, so a four foot shower pan actually yields an opening that is more like 47 or 46 inches and change. Same goes for the tile. A 24 inch tile is actually something less, since they typically use metric mesaurements.
These days if I am tiling a shower with a tiled floor (rather than a pan or a tub) I use the Schluter system to waterproof the floor and I'll run it up the walls. If I am use a pan or tub, I may also use the Schluter Kerdi band in the corners and backerboard seams. And, you'll see from other videos I do have a flashing system behind the hardibacker. Otherwise, I generally don't think waterproofing the entire wall is necessary with Hardibacker. You can find more discussion of this on my bath playlist: ruclips.net/p/PLD4oAOZqK9mCjvmw_nUkZBrPPXf_20Lad
@@enduringcharm gotcha. That makes sense I don’t ever do it without schluter waterproofing but like they say to each his own. Looks like your work is nice regardless. Thanks for making the videos you do
I set the starting row level, either with a temporary "ledger" or by having the tub/pan dead level, and then work up from there. Sometimes I'll check for level along the way if the tiles are imperfect or very small. I own a few laser levels, but I just don't find them useful in this situation. A four foot and three foot spirit level work just fine, and also act as a straight edge. Having a laser set up in a small bath would just be something to trip over or damage.
Jordan Mclaughlin About half the time I install off-the-shelf shower doors and half the time a specialist makes custom doors. In this bath a third party will be making and installing custom doors, but I'll try to make a shower door video another time.
There are lots of variables and shower walls and floor are typically done as part of an entire bathroom renovation because everything else is built around the shower. Even the type of tile, pattern, and size of tile play into the cost. You'd have to have a contractor look at your particular circumstance.
See some of the many other comments on this. If the framing is supportive enough then I may not use mesh tape, which is meant only to prevent movement between two panels. I install flashing behind the backer for potential water intrusion. In some installations where the framing is sketchy I'll use mesh tape or, more recently, just use the Kerdi membrane on the joints.
+Imran Ikram I should make a video, because this question comes up constantly. The mesh tape and thinset is used to help keep the seams or edges of the backerboard together. If one flexed independently of the other, it could potentially lead to trouble. So, if the framing behind the backerboard is close together or if there is framing or plywood installed at the seams, then the tape and thinset are really not needed. On the other hand, if the framing is marginal or if I see too much flex, I will tape the seams. I also use hardibacker brand backerboard, because it is much stiffer than the competitors.
I love how RUclips can serve as your format for sharing tutorials AND as your calling card!
You do such beautiful work--if only more people took pride in their jobs--but glad that you're one of the good contractors out there. And your clients must be thrilled, knowing that they can always count on your integrity...and gorgeous results to both enjoy every day and show off to people who visit them. :)
MoGyver Holmes Very kind, thank you!
Great! I will watch again when ready to work on my shower this winter while hibernating
You've made some helpful points in this video..appreciate it.
Wow looks great. A master at his craft.
Awesome job explaining the whole process.
Great video! Thanks for taking the time and sharing the tips. Three stories up and down for cuts...you da man!
Nice tip on the shower valve layout. Thanks
But dont you still need to water proof the walls? Yea it's getting tilled but water can still penetrate the grout lines, I've seen people water proof using red guard and Schuter products for walls just wondering if that necessary I'd think for a completely waterproof wall it is but I'm not one to cut corners
I have another video about waterproofing you should watch. It isn't that I reject all waterproofing but that I believe there are circumstances where it is needed and circumstances where it may not be needed. I've torn apart a lot of bathrooms in my day, most of which included tile over wallboard. That's something we don't do anymore (for good reason) but in examining those bathrooms as I tore them down, I was able to see where problems develop and where they don't. Where tile was properly installed and grout/caulk was maintained over the years or decades, water intrusion simply wasn't a problem--even over wallboard! If you watch some of my other videos you'll see I use a multi-layer flashing system for the first three or four feet of height underneath the hardibacker when I have a tub or shower pan. That protection is there in case the homeowners fail to maintain caulk, or there is some future structural shifting, or whatever. The tile over the hardibacker (which I prefer over the porous and crumbly brands of backer) keeps water out of the wall cavity. Now, if I know a shower will be used constantly in a big family, or I expect heavy use for some other reason, or if I'm not liking the venting or structure of a bath for some reason, then I may choose to install Schluter membrane over the backer. Same goes for when I'm tiling a shower floor, of course. But, I don't believe every single shower must be plastered with Redgard or Schluter membrane no matter what, and therefore I save my clients the extra expense of that work if I don't feel it's necessary. There are bathrooms many decades old now, built before Redgard or Schluter existed, and they haven't melted yet.
No Waterproofing membrane on top of the cement board?
See this video ruclips.net/video/FYSZQp-Y_kI/видео.html at the 16 minute mark.
Why do you not have to water proof your screw holes in hardybacker. That’s an entry for water to get behind it
I've taken apart at least 60-70 bathrooms, some over 30 years old. I've never seen a single screw hole leak water into the stud bay. When I tile a shower floor, I use Schluter waterproofing membrane on the floor and up the walls. For shower pans and bathtubs, I may waterproof the corners with the same membrane and I use a flashing system behind the hardibacker cement board that I prefer. Other than that, waterproofing isn't an issue. Take a look at this old video: ruclips.net/video/xk7lNudSV2Q/видео.html
Thanks for the video. Suppose the shower enclosure is not well maintained by the owner and moisture makes its way down the vapor barrier and flashing tape. Am I to leave weep holes in the sanded caulk where the tile meets the shower pan? I imagine that it would necessary but it would also look unfinished if I do. Thoughts?
+david lawlor There's a lot of confusion on this point. The flashing is there in case something goes catastrophically wrong. If you actually have streams of water getting behind the tile and backerboard, then you have a serious issue and weepholes will be the least of your concern! Water vapor or moisture migrating through grout lines due to heavy use or whatever will not require weep holes, it will slowly dry out during times of non-use. In the bathrooms I've remodeled where streams of water have actually flowed past the backer and into the wall or the space below there was serious structural issues. One case was a poorly framed condo that had a shower corner open up completely over a period of a decade because the studs moved. Another was a mentally challenged man under professional supervision who routinely showered without the curtain closed and over a period of years the floor rotted out, causing the tub to sink and open up cracks in the wall. The flashing is there as a stopgap in cases like this, not for routine use. So, grout well and keep the grout maintained and go ahead and caulk the bottom of the tile. If you believe the framing or the house is subject to minor seasonal movement due to the heating cycle you can also caulk the corners. The caulk is flexible and will move rather than crack. Weep holes are not needed.
No def not if done properly it's not a problem. Vapor barriers can be a moisture nightmare trapping condensation in the walls creating mold. You want to waterproof vapor barrier should be between a exterior wall and the siding or whatever your house is finished with not after the insulation on the inside.
Great work! I’m considering laying 12x24 tiles in my tub surround . I noticed most people use ledger boards to support the weight of the tiles . I noticed you didn’t Because the shower pan is leveled . How long did you wait to tile the second row? And each following thereafter .
Most of the time I also use a ledger board to start the second row and then go back later to hand fit the first row. Once in a while it just happens to work out that the pan is dead level, but it isn't often. If I'm using modified thinset over hardibacker cement board then by the end of the day I will have reached the top of the shower and I can go back down to remove the ledger and fit the first row. Or, if I'm coming back the next day to tile the floor I may just wait till then. But, if you have a row supported by a ledger or by the pan you can keep right on tiling.
enduringcharm thanks for response
Did you cut the full tiles on the 1st row for the valve and back wall or are they full pieces? If so, do you recall the cut size?
I've done a couple dozen bath remodels since this video, so I don't recall the details. What you are asking, though, is how to handle the bottom row? Most typically I will install a plywood ledger to support the SECOND row. The ledger is installed (if possible) so that the first row installation will require a slight trimming of the tiles to insure a perfect fit. After the upper rows are secure, I remove the ledger and hand fit the first row. That said, sometimes you just get lucky and the shower pan or tub happens to be dead-on level. In that case, you can install the first row on the pan or tub ledge and work your way up.
What brand of thin set did you use, sir? Thank you for your time to answer!
The brand is really not important. I use three or four different brands depending on what is available. However, for applying tile onto cement backerboard I choose a modified thinset, which has latex additives for additional strength and flexibility.
Beautiful work you know your stuff I’ve been doing this for 20 years I would of love to see water proof red quart on that wonder board. Just saying that little extra detail is important. But that’s how I do it . Looks great anyway.
In situations where I feel actual waterproof construction is needed I'll use the Schluter membrane. Of course, I use that system anyway when tiling a shower floor.
Great video. I appreciate you walking through this. I've watched a few videos where the installer said that the 'running bond' pattern was not advisable with the 24" x 12" tile because tiles tend to 'hump' in the middle. That didn't seem to be an issue with this tile but I'm wondering if that was because it was an Italian tile? I purchased a porcelain tile (24" x 12") from Home Depot and I'm wondering if I can't do what you did here. Thoughts?
This is a great question. So, large format tile can be tricky because it naturally tends to cure with an arc to it. In other words, if you put two tiles face to face, you would typically see the faces touch in the middle with gaps at either end. Some tiles are worse than others. On a floor, especially, this fact can lead to "lippage" where one tile edge is slightly above an adjoining tile. Typically we install large format tile overlapping by thirds in order to mitigate this problem. Overlapping by half (the running bond pattern) can sometimes be done on tile up to 24 inches in length if the arc isn't too great. Longer than 24 inches and overlapping by half becomes unlikely. You need to examine each batch of tile to determine what you can and cannot do. And, actually, expensive Italian tile is usually worse in this regard than an inexpensive factory tile. I don't commit to a pattern until I've had a chance to open some boxes and put tile face to face to check for the arc.
@@enduringcharm Thank you for the detailed reply. That is exactly what I needed to know. I will go ahead and check my tile and make sure the overlap isn’t too bad. I also plan to use a tile leveling system to avoid lippage so I can just be more aware of where I put those leveling wedges. Once they dry obviously it should hold.
@@enduringcharm Great detailed explanation. I took my tiles and did just what you suggested and they were flat as can be so I overlapped at 50%. It turned out great! Thanks!
Great--glad it worked out!
Fantastic job! Helped me with my upcoming project for my shower. Thanks.
Love your videos. My question is, I have a similar shower pan. I am using 12x24 tiles. I want to tile about 3"past the front of the tile pan. I will be using a schulter edge. I'm on the fence on how to start my tiles. Do I set the 2nd row then go back a set the first row starting at the point past the shower base cutting around the pan and trimming the bottoms of the tiles on the remaining first row? I hope this makes sense. Thank you in advance for your help.
There's no real right or wrong in this instance, and I will sometimes start with the first row or sometimes with the second row depending on circumstances. In your case you have a very large tile which will need to be cut around the shower pan. That can be tricky to do, especially if you need to get the first row dead level for the second row to sit on. So in your case I'd recommend installing a temporary ledger to hold the second row and start there. Just make certain you are starting the second row in the right place. Find the low spot around the perimeter of the base if there is one, hold a tile there, and mark a line at the top. Your ledger should be a little below that to allow for "meat" for cutting when you do the first row. You may even choose to go much lower, depending on where the uppermost row will end.
Anyway, once you get the other tiling done, go back and hand fit the first row of tiles. You may break some tiles or make bad cuts, but you'll know how many tile you have left by then. With a larger grout line you'll have a little bit of wiggle room in the event you don't get the row dead level. Also, with a 24 inch long tile you may find it has quite a bow in the middle--this is normal. So, if you are doing a running bond pattern (offset) you may need to do thirds, not halves, in order to avoid lippage.
@@enduringcharm thank you for your quick response. I am a few days away from tiling but I will think through all options.
Nice job.
Great videos. Very informative. Keep them coming.
Isn't better to cut the tiles where the shelf is sitting? that way there is a continuous horizontal grout line
It's easier to cut the tiles above when you can mark them from the actual shelf, but if you prefer the look of cutting the lower tile there's nothing wrong with that either.
Beautiful work bro
Great video
Hello, excellent video. Is there a difference in longevity between hardibacker vs kerdi boards? Jut to get an idea how much did this project cost to remodel? thanks
Fiber cement products like Hardibacker have a long history and have been around for decades. It will certainly last the life of the bath or kitchen. Kerdiboard was introduced in 2010, so it has less history to judge. As for project costs, they vary widely depending on scope of project and costs in your area for materials and labor. Remodeling magazine publishes an annual cost comparison you might find helpful.
Nice job... Very nice
You make this look super easy and you're doing it by yourself!! Every contractor I've reached out to has a 'crew' that can do the job. It's a one man job LOL....why would I pay 5 guys to do 1 shower????
Yeah, I typically work alone unless I have a really big project or one with a lot of heavy structural work.
Having a crew is a headache, better to do the work to your own satisfaction, and get paid accordingly. Nice work and thank you for sharing!
In regards to tiling a living area, should you remove the skirting boards before tiling, and then place them on top of the tiles, or just tile up to the existing skirting boards? Thanks!
+Michael and Jessica Marrinan By "skirt boards" I'm assuming you mean what I call the baseboard--the moulding around the perimeter of the room. I prefer to have the tile go under the baseboard. It looks better, and it allows the wood moulding to expand and contract with seasonal changes without forming gaps or cracking the tile. Some people also caulk the bottom edge of the baseboard, although that isn't strictly necessary.
+enduringcharm Yes baseboard is what I meant. Thanks! Very helpful! We are moving into a new house soon and tiling and painting are the first two jobs!
how come you didnt mesh and thinset the corners?
+gasmanrm My most popular question! I need to annotate the video on this point. Mesh tape is important when there is flexing between two sheets of the backer. The mesh and thinset stiffen that joint. If the framing is such that there is little or no flexing, and you are using a stiff backerboard brand like Hardibacker, then the mesh tape may be omitted. If I'm installing a smaller tile, though, I use it every time. Smaller tiles are more susceptible to movement.
What size shower pan is that? My shower looks exactly the same size, and hope to use a similar tile and layout.
It's been a long time, but that looks like it was a 48 inch unit. Those are typically 30 or 32 inches to the back, occasionally deeper. Be certain your selection fits in your opening.
Is it ok to put a tile floor straight on to hardiboard? I was thinking about doing that but was afraid it would flex too much....
First, it's hardiBACKER, not hardiBOARD, which is a different product. Typically on a floor 1/4 inch hardibacker is used under the tile, but the cement board provides no structural support. That is accomplished with layers of plywood. Take a look at my video on subfloors:
ruclips.net/video/rmrLxfaGXyQ/видео.html
Which Italian company manufactures those marble effect tiles?
no waterproofing? at least RedGuard or some kind of membrane?
You can see from my other videos how I prepare the walls and flashing behind the backerboard. If I'm tiling both a floor and walls I'll use the Schluter system. I use hardibacker brand cement board and it is not necessary to waterproof that product. I do often apply Kerdi band in the corners, though, as seen from about 15:30 on in this video: ruclips.net/video/FYSZQp-Y_kI/видео.html
Did you set the tiles on the shower pan flange or did you overlap the tile on the pan flange?
I’m not sure how to address that area?
You should see some of my other videos about prepping and tiling shower areas where this is addressed. Ideally the cement backerboard comes over the flange, and I also like to flash behind the backerboard, overlapping the flange with a self-adhesive window flashing. Of course, if you are using the Schluter system or similar it has it's own detailing. Sometimes the circumstances prevent bringing the backerboard over the flange, in which case it is brought to the top of the flange and you must rely on that flashing I mentioned. In both cases the tile is brought over the flange, leaving a gap the same as your grout line. That gap is caulked with a silicone or grout-color-matched caulk.
Hey thanks for the fast response, I’m using a Grifform pan that has a generous height to the flange. Without furring out the studs the 1/2” backer board sets flush with the flange, can a guy tape and thin set the cbu pan flange junction and then cover that joint with something like mapei aquadefense, then tile over the joint on the flange?
If you can fur out the studs you should. If a wall cannot be furred out because it extends into the rest of the room you can put the backerboard on top of the flange and flash as I indicated. See this video:
ruclips.net/video/psf9cnYoVts/видео.html
enduringcharm
Excellent I wish I would have found your channel sooner. Thanks for the tips.
No water proofing membrane?
In some applications I'll use a waterproof membrane--I like the Schluter products. However, this was a shower pan not a tiled floor and in some circumstances the extra money and work to add a Schluter membrane simply isn't necessary. You'll see from my other videos that I install a series of flashing products behind the hardibacker in the event of some failure in the future.
I will give that video a watch thank you very much for clearing this up for me cause I'm looking to save $$ but also don't want to skimp ect
stupid question, but don't you need the shelves to be sloped in the shower so the water drains?
Not a stupid question! Depending on the particular show I will put a little bit of pitch on the shelf, which can be done by just adding a little more thinset in the corner or by adjusting the corner with a sliver of cardboard. However, if you put too much pitch it looks bad to the eye. Plus, I think the concern about water runoff is often overblown. The shelves are fairly high and in a larger shower not that much water sprays there.
Where the corner shelfs purchased or did you make them?
They are commonly available at tile stores locally. They are typically marble and they can be cut smaller if you wish.
Why do the box recommendations has a 33% off center
You are referring to a 1/3 overlap, I assume. This was asked previously, so let me just quote my previous explanation: "Large format tile can be tricky because it naturally tends to cure with an arc to it. In other words, if you put two tiles face to face, you would typically see the faces touch in the middle with gaps at either end. Some tiles are worse than others. On a floor, especially, this fact can lead to "lippage" where one tile edge is slightly above an adjoining tile. Typically we install large format tile overlapping by thirds in order to mitigate this problem. Overlapping by half (the running bond pattern) can sometimes be done on tile up to 24 inches in length if the arc isn't too great. Longer than 24 inches and overlapping by half becomes unlikely. You need to examine each batch of tile to determine what you can and cannot do. And, actually, expensive Italian tile is usually worse in this regard than an inexpensive factory tile. I don't commit to a pattern until I've had a chance to open some boxes and put tile face to face to check for the arc."
Hi like your work.
What is the trowel size you used for the tile and what thin set did you use?
Yossi Khalon The size of the notches on the trowel depend on the size and weight of the tile being used. I would defer to what the tile manufacturer or your tile retailer recommends. The brand of thinset is really not too important in my eyes, but I do use a modified thinset when I have a cement backerboard or wallboard backer.
Thanks for reply. I see that you did not use red guard on the wall. Is that because you are putting porcelain tile or because it is not needed.
Thanks in advance
Yossi Khalon Under some circumstances so-called "waterproofing" is not necessary, in some cases it may be a good idea. See this video of mine for more guidance:
ruclips.net/video/xk7lNudSV2Q/видео.html
Dude, why didn't you tape the corners with thin set and fiberglass tape before tiling? You will have cracking problems as well as water issues.
I respond to this question constantly, but I'll give it another go. The need for taping the joints depends on the quality and the design of the framing underneath, as well as the brand of backerboard being used. Taping can help prevent movement of the backerboard edges between two sheets when the framing is not ideal or when the spacing/positioning of the framing members allows movement. If, for example, a backerboard seam splits on a stud or on blocking then taping is not necessary. Also, some backerboard, such as hardibacker, is stuffer by nature and simply doesn't flex as much as others. In this particular shower I may not have felt taping was necessary. Other times I will use tape (or these days strips of kerdi membrane) to prevent movement. It just depends on the circumstances. The shower in the video is five years old now and I was at that client's home doing other work not long ago. There is no cracking or water intrusion. Other showers I've done are 15-20 years old now without issue.
As for waterproofing, I do extensive flashing behind the backerboard which will prevent water intrusion should tile or grout or caulking fail in the future. If I'm tiling the floor I'll also run Kerdi mambrane up the walls. Sometimes I'll run the membrane in the corners if the framing is sketchy and I expect movement. I make judgement calls. Why not just use every possible technique there is out of an abundance of caution? Well, because bath remodels cost a lot of money. If I just blindly used every possible precaution I could think of for tiling, preparing walls, painting, preparing framing and subflooring, electrical, plumbing and fixture installation then the cost for my clients would be much greater. So, I use my professional judgement as to what is needed for a particular bath. In the last 15 years I've had only two bathroom callbacks. One for a dripping faucet which Moen supplied a new cartridge to fix, and one recently for some caulking that dried up and failed. I no longer use that manufacturer of caulk.
how many hours did you have into just setting the tile in the shower area?
When I'm working alone I can generally do a small shower and the floor in one long day. Arrive and get the tools set up by 8:30, and I'm exiting the house and hosing down the tile saw by 6 or 7. However, if the shower is large, if the ceiling or the shower floor must be tiled, if there is a lot of decorative tile, or if the bathroom floor is large then I'll go into a second day. I hate having to set up the wet saw twice, but sometimes I have no choice.
Do you use mesh in corners
My methods have evolved over the years. Currently I prepare corners installing a strip of Schluter Kerdi membrane, even if I am not installing it over the rest of the backerboard. Tis helps strengthen the corner and also waterproofs it if it ever opens up.
by my math you should always be able to come out with cut piece bigger than 1/3 of a tile ,what am I getting wrong?
I'm not sure specifically what you're asking. In this pattern the tile was "wrapped" around the wall rather than ending at the corners. In doing so you also need to account for the bullnose tile. Plus, the dimensions of the wall and the tile are nominal, so a four foot shower pan actually yields an opening that is more like 47 or 46 inches and change. Same goes for the tile. A 24 inch tile is actually something less, since they typically use metric mesaurements.
Hi there great video....but will have to say for such a large format tile it should be 1/2" ×1/2" trowel
But great video n great tutorial
This was a 12 inch tile, and a 3/8 notch is fine for that. A 16 inch or bigger tile would require a 1/2 inch notch.
Overkill
What did you do for waterproofing?
These days if I am tiling a shower with a tiled floor (rather than a pan or a tub) I use the Schluter system to waterproof the floor and I'll run it up the walls. If I am use a pan or tub, I may also use the Schluter Kerdi band in the corners and backerboard seams. And, you'll see from other videos I do have a flashing system behind the hardibacker. Otherwise, I generally don't think waterproofing the entire wall is necessary with Hardibacker. You can find more discussion of this on my bath playlist: ruclips.net/p/PLD4oAOZqK9mCjvmw_nUkZBrPPXf_20Lad
@@enduringcharm gotcha. That makes sense I don’t ever do it without schluter waterproofing but like they say to each his own. Looks like your work is nice regardless. Thanks for making the videos you do
Why you not using laser level?
I set the starting row level, either with a temporary "ledger" or by having the tub/pan dead level, and then work up from there. Sometimes I'll check for level along the way if the tiles are imperfect or very small. I own a few laser levels, but I just don't find them useful in this situation. A four foot and three foot spirit level work just fine, and also act as a straight edge. Having a laser set up in a small bath would just be something to trip over or damage.
Nice work! Any chance we get to see the shower door install?
Jordan Mclaughlin About half the time I install off-the-shelf shower doors and half the time a specialist makes custom doors. In this bath a third party will be making and installing custom doors, but I'll try to make a shower door video another time.
enduringcharm Thank you sir
Great 👍 video
I hire u no doubt!
How much can be cost a shower tiled and floor just the labor job
There are lots of variables and shower walls and floor are typically done as part of an entire bathroom renovation because everything else is built around the shower. Even the type of tile, pattern, and size of tile play into the cost. You'd have to have a contractor look at your particular circumstance.
Hey what’s that tape he’s using at the bottom called
It;s window and door self-adhesive flashing, sold at Home Cheapo or Lowes
enduringcharm thank you. Love the videos
No tape on the corner joints?
See some of the many other comments on this. If the framing is supportive enough then I may not use mesh tape, which is meant only to prevent movement between two panels. I install flashing behind the backer for potential water intrusion. In some installations where the framing is sketchy I'll use mesh tape or, more recently, just use the Kerdi membrane on the joints.
enduringcharm oh ok makes sense, figured you did it for a reason just wanted to know why, thanks tho lol
Dead nuts !!! Hahahaha
Great video nice job bro !
I noticed you don't tape/fill the joints on the cement board. Do you need to?
+Imran Ikram I should make a video, because this question comes up constantly. The mesh tape and thinset is used to help keep the seams or edges of the backerboard together. If one flexed independently of the other, it could potentially lead to trouble. So, if the framing behind the backerboard is close together or if there is framing or plywood installed at the seams, then the tape and thinset are really not needed. On the other hand, if the framing is marginal or if I see too much flex, I will tape the seams. I also use hardibacker brand backerboard, because it is much stiffer than the competitors.
+enduringcharm Thanks for your answer!
nice