Air France Flight 447's harrowing end
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- Опубликовано: 26 май 2011
- The black boxes from Air France Flight 447 have been recovered, nearly two years after it crashed into the Atlantic Ocean. Nancy Cordes reports on the final minutes as pilots struggled to regain control.
It was only after this crash that we began training for high altitude stalls in the Airbus simulators at my airline. I think most of us were shocked at the realization of how little power remains from the engines, how drastic a nose down attitude it takes to recover, and how much altitude you have to sacrifice in order to recover from a deep stall at high altitudes. A real wake up call.
How many feet do you need to descend to be to able to recover such a stall? Atleasy 5000-10000 feet I imagine considering the angle you have to reach to break the stall.
@@ErolDotComthere was someone who answered that very thorough with all the calculatuions. No idea if he was correct but he calculated 4000 feet at least
how insanely scary. airline disasters are the most terrifying but also interesting.
9 yrs ago, 480 likes and NO comments? Sheeeshhhh
Fr
Derrrp
Over 3 minutes of knowing you're heading for your death, your wife, husband, child, mother, sister, brother next to you. Anyone who's ever driven a car and had a near miss death experience that lasted even 3 seconds knows that those 3 seconds felt like 3 years. Now can you imagine an actual 3 minutes of waiting AND KNOWING - you are going to die and there is nothing you can do. I can't imagine worse death and worse fear. May their souls find eternal peace. It's heartbreaking.
Yeah and there was a flight of Alaska Airlines that also crashed into the ocean after losing control
None of the passengers had any idea what was going on. They were completely clueless until they were dead.
ProtecThor there was a Japanese plane that lost its bulkhead and the pilots kept it up for 30 minutes. The whole time knowing they were going to crash and die. The passengers knew in that flight.
@@nrdsgtbck101 How can you be so sure?
@@mimosa27 Night time, lack of visual reference, and storm in the area
This is so sad. They shouldn't have died. This was avoidable
@@brendanfoehr5086 Hmmm.. Really?
Uf i hope someone survived the impact.
A lot of errors they seemed clueless to me. Air France has not been all honest about this crash either .
@@jonbonesmahomes7472 Wtf?
@@bibi-we4lg 'someone'
English is not my 1st language so i made a mistake.
Should have been
Someone
@@jonbonesmahomes7472 That's okay, It's not my first language either.
I don't think I can imagine anything more terrifying than the dark of the night over the Atlantic ocean, rest in peace to the victims of flight 447, gone but never forgotten
Sorry, but I just can't fathom the amount of people blaming the pilots' training. I am a complete amateur pilot who has only flown single engine planes. But even I know that when a plane stalls, the FIRST fucking thing you need to do is pitch the nose of the plane DOWN to increase speed and help the plane out of the stall. This is BASIC aviation rules. Bonin was a fucking idiot who killed all those people. I can't believe how long he kept the nose of a stalling plane pitched up. He had 28,000 FEET to realise his mistake. At 10,000ft it was still possible to save the plane. But this fool didn't realise until 4000ft off the ground when it was too late. The rage I get every time I think about it is unreal. RIP all those innocent people.
you try to sound really smart, but youre getting they were in a storm, theyre losing all their indicators. did u think he would have put his nose up without thinking it through? he clearly didnt know what the fuck was going on
yourdeadmother
And that's why he was such an incompetent idiot. The stall warning sounded FIFTY FOUR TIMES! 54!! Forget storm and faulty instrumentation, those are absolutely lame excuses. The stall warning only needs to sound ONCE for any half way competent pilot to know what is going on. And the LAST thing you should do when you hear that extremely LOUD warning is pitch up. What he did was criminal incompetence and you don't have to be too smart to see it.
Born Red There were many other indications as well, telling him conflicting things, including excessive speed. Even when the indications became valid again, they had no way of knowing they were now valid. Several times throughout the descent he makes comments that show he didn't believe the plane was stalling. They had to make an educated guess about which indications to believe, and he unfortunately drew the wrong conclusions. The real mistake on Bonin's part (although the more experienced first officer, Robert, should have known better as well) was making any changes whatsoever when the pitot tubes iced up. He should have let the plane continue as it has been, as it was flying level anyway, until they began functioning properly again, which is standard procedure. Making changes without functioning indicators meant none of them could be sure what the plane was actually doing from that moment on.
optifog
I agree that there were other conflicting indications such as incorrect speed readings and a loss of altitude that was incorrect. But the stall warning only ever sounds once the plane has lost lift. And that warning is the one that should have been heeded above all else. Again, this is another basic rule of aviation, No amount of excuses such as iced pitot tubes or incorrect readings can ever detract away from that.
a stall warning in itself is a reading isn't it? what if they believed the stall warning itself was incorrect?
I'm not a pilot and I know that you don't pull up when you are stalling...
@WHITE FROST stfu
Me too
No, you definitely shouldn't. Apparently they didn't trust the stall warning because the computer kept giving them faulty readings as a result of the frozen petot tube. They though the warning was triggered by incorrect information.
At what point though do you recognise that maybe you shouldn't be continuously pulling back on the stick when you're dropping like a stone. The captain should not have gone for a rest and left a rookie pilots in charge.
They knew too.
This is so sad to me. There are many tragedies in the world, but something about this one just bothers me. Those people were so unlucky to have been on that flight and didn’t deserve to die. It’s just so terribly incomprehensible.
I really hope the families are doing well. I’m with you ❤️
@@deathsgaze5826 yeah, Aeroflot 593 especially was incredibly infuriating. The pilot allowed his CHILDREN to take control of the plane, his 15-year-old son and 12-year-old daughter, both of whom had never even played a flight simulator video game let alone had any kind of flight training for a real plane. That pilot MURDERED everyone on board via gross negligence. He's a murderer, and should always be remembered as a murderer, and any remaining family he had that weren't on that flight should be legally forced to change their names, so that family name forever dies along with that mass murderer pilot.
@@duffman18 that's sad news, I also have just read it and it broke my heart
@@tomikomirandilla Aeromexico 498 is one of the saddest ones to me for some reason
300 odd people on that flight it is a statistical certainty that at least one of them was an asshole.
These poor people what fear they must have faced in this dreadful air disaster. Every fliers worst fear is an end like this.
Honestly I always find these exciting. If I ever die in an airplane crash, I promise you my final minutes will be thrilling!
Tony Cruciani I agree 😟
@@Syclone0044 the natural human instinct to survive would suggest otherwise. But whatever makes you feel better.
This is such a unique accident. Planes don't JUST fall out of the sky anymore, ever. Flight 447 isn't jut a case of pilot error, it's a representation of a failure in pilot training. I'm learning to fly right now, and even as a private pilot student I'm getting the instantaneous reaction to push the nose down when I hear the stall horn engrained in my brain as deep as Mary Had a Little Lamb. You can't work to save yourself and your passengers if you can't control the airplane.
@Myrtleshell The crew didn't even realize anything was wrong until it was too late. They weren't incapacitated or panicked, they were completely oblivious!
@@erich930the biggest mistake was the pilot leaving them before moving through the storm. If his girlfriend hadn’t been on that plane, this plane would have landed safely.
@@Adriana-eu6ty He was going on his REQUIRED crew rest. This has nothing to do with his girlfriend being on board.
@@erich930 ok
Flying gets me anxious, if it was feasible I would be crossing continents by bus. How I wish there was a parachute that could handle the whole damn plane
I'm right there with you. I've flown countless times, but over time my phobia of flying has gotten worse. On my last flight I came close to convincing myself that I was going to die due to some turbulence. Lol.
Maggie M i will never forget the 1991 Moby Prince accident that happened in Italy!It was Italian ferry that collided with the oil tanker.140 deaths,burned alive.On that ship was a young couple on their honeymoon.They were affraid of flying so decided to take that ferry.You never know...Only one survivor,young ship's boy,who after had mental problems.
Small planes can be equipped with a parachute that deploys in the event of a stall like this. To save a plane this size, the packed chute would be so heavy that many passengers accommodations would have to be eliminated, and that cuts into the bottom line.
Flying is safer than travelling on the ground.
Alden Andrews a parachute, or BRS (ballistic recovery system - it’s loaded with propellant to get the chute free of the plane) often cause more issues than they solve by going off when they shouldn’t. Plus, when you’re drifting down by parachute you can’t avoid power lines etc. I’d feel a lot safer in commercial planes if the “too clever for their own good” designers stopped making systems to design pilot out of the picture, mainly to lower staff training costs. Nearly all the recent accidents were due to overly complex or poorly explained tech systems, which they then blame the pilots for. Dead men can’t respond, can they!
This crew shouldn't have been allowed to fly a kite never mind a long haul commercial passenger plane.
Lol
The three stooges
Especially Cédric Bonin, he is the main origin of the problem.
i dont think the captain should be held directly responsible. He was the captain but he was on his regulated break at the time the problem started. It took 3 and half minutes from when the problem first started to when the plane crashed, hardly enough time for the captain to get back to the cockpit and rectify a situation which the other 2 had created.
just bonin
The information is not very accurate, the A330-200 doesnt have a yoke, it has a side stick.
Had it been a Boeing the crash would not have happened. Side sticks are not visible to each other, so Capt side pilot could not see fuckwitt pilot pulling back on his stick.
+Slipstream Exactly! Also in a Boeing they are "linked" to each other, in other words if I pull back it will pull back on the COs as well, it doesn't allow one to push forward and the other to pull back. There is a reason they are called "crashbus"
+André Garcia Lol yea. They should just sync them lol
+Ryan Cunningham Exactly. And even after this crash they are still not linked, but there is something much bigger that they are hiding, their flight envelope system is flawed. They all blame the pilots for going up while the plane was stalling, even a kid playing Flight simulator knows that you don't pull back when the plane is stalling, you dive. However just a couple of months before, there was a VERY similar incident with a Qantas A330, the Pitot tubes froze, except that it was during the day and with high visibility, the pilots managed to regain control. They reported that the computer kept trying to dive the plane and they had to pull up, awfully similar to AF447....
I'm sure they did the animation like that to present a easier picture of what the flight control sticks were doing so people that have no clue about aircraft mechanics can see what went wrong. But being technical you're right, the Airbus utilizes the FBW side sticks.
Those poor poor people onboard...god only knows what they went through in the minutes before there deaths...and those pilots, knowing they had just been (partly) responsible for the deaths of 200 people...so so sad
most likely they didn't go through anything if that consoles you. There was no reason for them to think that they were going to crash. And the crash probably killed everyone instantly. the pilots on the other end: yeah that must've been pretty bad.
All the documentaries say that the passengers didn't felt the downway. No sensation in falling 12000ft a minute?
Stick Factory They say that to console the victims’ relatives. There’s no reason to argue against the NTSB guys verdict
@@summerrr1 how sad, man..
TheKaeseStulle did you see the report? “It was horrific”
RIP
Rest in peace to all of those who died.💐
For me the difference between car and plane crashes is the time when people are falling in a plane, knowing they were gonna die. Also, in a car, you can steer yourself to safety (not always, but sometimes), the lack of control in planes is terrifying.
Only time a car is scary is if the brakes or suspension fail while you are at high speed
@@eviljesus6111 Or driving over a bridge and something fails.
To show you how bad the pilots acted, i believe the French air authorities deliberatey held back come of the cockpit voice recordings of their actions, as they were deeply ashamed of this air crews actions!
You made a very very interesting point; i have always wondered why is that they never released the real cockpit voice. Could it be that it is so terrible? Thanks for mentioned this point!
Just like Malaysia Airlines deliberately muddled the investigation of MH370 because they could not accept that one of their pilots decided to suicide and take over 600 people with him.
True
@ keneálissan Rios
I believe the actual CVR is very disturbing IMO & probably things on there Air France doesn’t want exposed.
On the plus side, you can be hired as a pilot at Air France with only 200 hours experience.
kewkabe oh that’s great to hear
I dont understand. If you get the 'stall, stall' warning... what else you need? Even if the speed indicators are lost, stall warning should be conclusive...
Well, they were obviously trained to disregard certain warnings the aircraft gives out in the event of icing on the pitot tubes
“Lack of stall recovery culture”.
I saw those lines in a book.
@@TomCook1993Agreed, although surely they had an altitude reading indicating they were dropping like a stone. That along the the stall warning really should have helped them figure out it wasn't a false warning. Unfortunately, they panicked and didn't know what to believe. Unavoidable and very sad.
Typical ignorance of the news media; showing a cockpit with wheel/yolk instead of the Airbus standard side-stick controls....
Awesome reply. Classic!!!
ROCKSTARCRANE Especially since the joystick was the problem. I can't believe this got on the air
Did you just call a yoke a "wheel or a yolk"?
Indeed! and this is very relevant in this accident
Fake news
Imagine being a pilot and you hear "beep beep beep, stall stall" for over 10 seconds straight and you STILL pull up. It's been 10 years and it baffles me to this day that such an idiot could be a pilot. This is why the 750 hour requirement has been raised.
Pilot was pushing nose down, the copilot was pushing nose up and they were not aware of each other's actions - so both inputs cancelled each other out in the plane's computer and the A330 dropped like a rock.
R.I.P to all that lost their lives, and condolenses to their families and their loved ones.
This was a clear case of a crew failing to act together and analyzing what they were experiencing with a cool head. If your pitot tubes aren't working, you shouldn't assume that stall warnings or other indicators are broken too. It seems to me that the inexperienced pilot encountered one false reading and immediately stopped trusting all his instrumentation. With no visual cues, they panicked and began attempting to climb out of fear of crashing...creating the exact scenario they were looking to avoid.
There is no excuse for Bonin to not realize that going nose up is the worst thing you can do when the plane is stalling... Robert should have been more clear in his communication so their respective inputs wouldn't cancel each other out.
I'm not even a pilot, this is intuitive.
Totally preventable even with the equipment malfunction.
Charles Duhigg, in his book "Smarter Faster Better", gives an excellent detailed explanation of what went wrong in the cockpit. Most of it was due to pilot error - the pilots froze under pressure, and didn't have sound mental models of how to handle a situation like the one they encountered.
@ 0:51 Airbus 330 have side-sticks not control column as on Boeing passenger aircrafts.
Sad, they died an awful harrowing death, RIP to all of them.
This is such a sad sad tragedy....
Private Pilot lesson #1 : When close to stall point nose down. And these guys were commercial pilots ??
For real
That,s Air France
Only one pilot failed. The other pilot did the right thing by pushing the sidestick forward but the other pulled it backwards cancelling each others actions out. The pilot that did well also said “ I have the controls” and the other pilot agreed and left the controls but for some reason the only thing he still did was pulling the sidestick backwards.
What they don't mention is that the plane went through a storm which all other planes in the area had avoided, while they just avoided the most severe thunder heads
You sir, are fully informed and are correct!
I'm an ATPL student at the moment, and during our theoretical training, we are being asked about the Airspeed, Vertical speed and Altitude indication problems in many different subjects. In Instrumentation, Operational Procedures, Aircraft General Knowledge etc. Especially when the Pitot tube or Static ports are clogged or iced up. This AF447 flight might be the reason. For people watching this, I can assure you that there should not be a freshly graduated pilot (at least in Europe) who doesn't know the indication problems and how to react to them.
Hindsight is always 20/20 but the captain was stupid to have placed the co-pilot with the least amount of flying experience in charge while he went to sleep. Rest in peace to everyone onboard. You didn't deserve to die this way...
He should have told them to wake him at the least bit of anomaly, not wait till it's too late.
Nice thing to say to their families. "IT WAS HORRIFIC!!!!"
because he’s being honest. no one is going to sugarcoat a tragedy like this and say “they were probably all at peace with their oncoming slow death”
Amazing how many skilled pilots are in the comment section.
There was plenty of information for the crew, the plane was nearly 100% functional. The crew failed under stress.
I hope their families have found peace
I wonder if passengers were aware of the impending doom. I hate situations where I have no control
I've heard that they didn't know anything was very wrong until they actually hit the ocean.
@@ramley How could they not know when the plane was rolling all over the place, climbing, and nose diving? The guy in this clip said they fell to the ocean for three-and-a-half minutes so they all definitely knew.
@@J24J Dark, no visual reference. Look up the actual accident recreation.
@Xander Cain No CVR recording of audible gasps and screams. Asleep? Unsure. Unaware of falling? Yes.
I doubt they even knew they were falling. I heard in another documentary that frequent flyers and experienced staff would’ve heard strange noises but that’s it. Otherwise, they had no idea anything was wrong until they slammed into the ocean.
How true, so easy to point the finger and say what should have been done! The pilots are always blamed in any crash but the circumstances on that night had to have been so harrowing with no reliable flight info and a raging storm in pitch darkness. My heart goes out to the pilots and all those who lost their lives.
This is probably the most informative short video on the nightmarish conditions of this crash. I skimmed through the long accident report just released on this crash. They were unable to recover from the stall. There seemed to be a lack of urgency among the 2 pilots and the captain was out of the cockpit for too long when the crisis started. I am confused from a comment the captain made to one of the co pilots before he went on break. He asked him if he had a commerical pilots license?
The animation shows a yoke but that Airbus has the side "joystick" some experts believe the joystick design is what added to the mishap.....scary stuff
had the more experienced pilot taken his break 10 mins later, this incident would never have happened. it is a very frustrating scenario that nearly 300 innocent lives are taken because of the error of two people, but mainly one because one of the pilots was pulling up while the other was pulling down.
The Airbus A330, along with the Boing 747-8, are the safest commercial planes you can fly on. The total lack of CRM, basic training, and protocols caused the death of 228 people. Every time I read about a commercial plane crashing I feel much more safer flying, as the incident is fresh in the minds of the crew/mechanics/manufacturers - being a subject of significant training and operational protocol thereafter. It's impossible to estimate how many lives were saved from unfortunate events like this. The measures taken to correct the inefficiencies tell me that these people did not die for nothing. The victims essentially saved many lives and should be honored as those who paid the ultimate price - so others could be safer.
The only part missing from this is the co-pilot's last words: "Fu&ck. We're dead." No, I'm not making a joke, I wouldn't disrespect those who lost their lives. He literally said it.
There are many parts missing; being Brazilian myself, i have a phobia of flying because of a very very bad experience in 2012. 20 minutes prior the landing, the airplane literally dropped hundreds of feet. Everybody started screaming and crying. One of the turbines was making a very weird noise. My husband, myself and a gentleman sitting by my husband side looked at each other and thought “ this is it “. After that, i cannot fly without fear. Sad. RIP Air France 447.
@@kenealissanrios724 So what happened? Did you guys die? 🤣🤣🤣
My dad was scheduled for this very flight, but due to bad weather he was late for the flight by approx. 30minutes, he narrowly escaped death and was a very stressful time for him indeed.
One can't imagine the horror in the the minds of the passengers and crew. God rest you all.
RIP
To the passengers and crew of Air France Flight 447
let me sum up the most puzzling sequence of cockpit incident in history;
Pilot: I wonder what's wrong with the plane
Plane: STALL! STALL! STALL!!
Pilot: I don't understand at all. What's going here.
Plane: STALL! STALL! STALL!!
Pilot: BUT WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THE PLANE. I DON'T KNOW!!!
and they basically flew the perfectly functioning plane down the ocean, having very little idea of what they did wrong.
Except if you read the full transcript you will realize that on two occasions the stall alarm stopped when the stick was back and restarted when the stick was pushed forward. Why? Below a certain speed threshold the system didn't trust the speed at all, treated it as junk and cancelled the stall alarm. Pushing the nose down gained speed and moved it above the "junk" threshold, back into the zone where it restarted the stall warning.
Bonin didn't respond well to the situation, but the 330's alarms and control systems didn't really help either. It was really not a situation that had been accounted for by designers, seemingly.
TitanFind And again, engineers don't expect fully trained airline pilots to climb nose up to 39 000 feet and ignore stall alarms. The problem you're refering to happened when their speed was just way to low and when their plane was 4000 ft from the sea.
TitanFind
It's really dumb that the warnings just stop out of nowhere if the computers aren't sure what to do. In the case of AF447 this made the crew think things were better than they were. Maybe the computers should actually SAY the data is garbage, handing back manual control etc.
Adding 2 to 2 will equals 4. Which means if you put 2 peanut in bowl of 2 peanuts. You'll end up having 4.
the stall warning sounded like 58 times before it cut out. The plane wasnt staying level, its obvious Bonin had no clue the plane was in a stall after he had put it in a stall, otherwise he wouldnt have kept pulling back on the side stick.
I am truly sorry for this. I am sure the pilots fought to the last second.
Pitot tubes don't freeze if the heaters are enabled. They get hot enough to burn the skin off of the hand. Regardless of what happened, it's a shame that people lost their lives when they should have been flying off to happier times.
Flash freezing can freeze up a pitot even when heated: at very cold temperatures, ultra-pure water meeting metal can overwhelm the countering force of a heating element. This is a known issue.
We've had helicopters in super-cold Arctic conditions and have never had a switched on and heated pitot freeze. We've had the camera and lens freeze up though.
digitalbroadcaster I very much doubt you were flying at the altitudes required to encounter the purity of water required for flash freezing.
TitanFind
No, you're correct. We only use A-Star's (Eurocopter) AS355's, so firstly our pitots are in the slow air stream, and secondly not high enough in altitude. Although we did land on the ISS once, due to navigational errors. Flight chart was upside down. Lol
It has been established these did in fact freeze, under extraordinary conditions, yes, and the design has been improved since, That pilot though...and I keep repeating to myself..''hindsight'', but still can't stop thinking he was a complete and utter useless fuckwitt. And yes I would rather one of the armchair experts below was flying instead of him...bet they would have had a better chance.
In a slow speed stall, pitch the nose down to gain airspeed.
However, in a high speed stall pitching the nose down could tear the plane apart.
The stall alarm does not distinguish between the two circumstances.
I've flown with several AF pilots and they are among the most professional aviators in airline service today. As a retired captain, I know what I'm talking about. The Concorde crash was due to debris left on the runway. The pilot did a heroic job in his attempt to save his aircraft. What you describe are TOGAs, missed approaches. Be grateful the pilot used his professional judgment in "shooting the approach" again. I know you were consistently in good hands. AF's pilot's are first rate!
If Only they had the controls that they're showing in this simulator they might have lived because they had controls where the two sticks weren't connected to each other one pilot didn't know what the other pilot was doing therefore resulted in the death of them all
Airbuses don't have yokes; they have side-sticks. The first officer was pulling back on the joystick and had the place nose up, and the captain didn't know what the other pilot was doing. There is an interview with Chesney Sullenberger where he says a Boeing wouldn't have crashed, because the captain would have known that the first officer was putting on the yoke the whole time. On an Airbus, you can't tell what the other pilot is doing on his side-stick.
pitot tubes icing over causing the speed readings to fail, causing the autopilot to auto-disengage sounds like a huge engineering and design flaw to me. the article on wikipedia also said the stall warning stopped when the nose was up, but resumed when the nose was corrected, which caused the pilots to keep the nose up which is crazy.
@lukefinch101 I agree! I was confused about the whole recreation of it! The CA seat is on the left, the FO seat is on the right. They had it backwards in the video, I was confused. There is a difference between three bars and four bars!
It didn't sound like they were terrified in the flight data recording.
makes me wonder of what happened to MH 370. may god be with them and their families
I seriously think MH370 was a cockpit fire which incapacitated the pilots and the plane flew on autopilot until it ran out of fuel and crashed. None of the conspiracy theories add up and I think the truth is something far more mundane and rational.
An Egyptian 777 had a similar problem and, even though it landed safely, the aircraft was written off and scrapped.
+UK31337 I agree. Of course the conspiracy theories are completely insane. They just can't admit that random things can and will occasionally go wrong.
Anyway, I'm not sure if it was a fire because the plane seemed to follow very precise waypoints after the initial turn. I suppose the pilot could have been trying to head back towards land and became disoriented. The other possibility is intentional, though no evidence suggesting any instability of his, or the first officers life was present. I believe the captains flight simulator lacked any suggestive evidence either. The copilot of German wings had flight sim as well and they found that he had been practicing that fateful flight.
It's a mystery that I hope can be solved. Hopefully 2016 is the year we find 370.
Justin Hopkins I keep thinking that maybe it was shot down by a missile, accident or not, and is being covered up.
IT WAS FOUND SHOT UP
@@JustinLHopkins 2018 lion air crashed in indonesia killing 189 ppl on board. So sad .. Another one.. Another one.. Another one
The thoughts of those passengers in those final moments......
When she asked what were the last 3 and half minutes was like he didn't seem pleased to have to describe it. What do you think lady it must been terrifying beyond imagination.
They had two stall warnings, did they even try to increase their speed?
I'm never getting on a plane again!
but airbus has joystick control to outer side of each pilot, not a yoke as in the animation, which was key, because the copilot initiating constant pullback on the stick caused the continuation of the stall, when adjusting nose down would have allowed them to gain altitude on pulling up later in the dive and to have recovered.
@oomblikkies that's because the space shuttle doesnt need to take any airspeed consideration since it doesn't use its wing for lift when it launches. An aircraft needs a certain speed of flow over its wings not to stall. At cruise altitude the difference of ground speed between head-wind and tail-wind can easily be past 100 knots. Alot of light aircraft can take-off at 80 knots so you understand what a massive difference it can make. I'd go into further detail but have no space left
Crashing in the deep Ocean at night is a scary way to go ! RIP to all the passengers that like all of us took the risk of taking to the air
This crash because the pilot is tired after that the pilot is sleep because he not rest before this flight and make flight 447 is crash because that. Sorry bad languange
This is the scariest plane crash I’ve ever heard. Stormy rainy middle of the ocean, stall, just pure terror can’t make it sound worse
The two co-pilots showed immaturity and huge incompetence.
The problem was undoubtedly Cédric Bonin who obviously could not manually fly.
Disappointed in the CBS news animation, showing a yoke instead of the Airbus side-stick.
Airbus design has fly-by-wire and side-stick controls, which at the time of this accident allowed for conflicting duel input commands by pilots. Does anyone know if Airbus has made any significant design changes made to the control inputs, since this 2011 A330-200 tragedy?
+Gary Vale 2009* but nope just the pitot tubes changed
Procedures have now changed when a A/P disconnect occurs.
Pulling up into a Stall? Didn't anyone Power? How can you have an airspeed of 120 knots and not have the instinct to apply more throttle just by where the throttle levers were positioned at? Weird.
Power would not have helped them at high altitude.
Boeing and airbus both recommend nose pitch down first and then apply power. At high altitude, HBPR engines don't have a lot of excess thrust as they do at sea level, and they are already operating at 85-90% thrust.
From what I've learned, they did do full throttle. But they kept the nose of the plane up, so it didn't really help..
MrChaostheory66 Also, they have to avoid overspeeding which can damage the airframe. It's a Scylla and Charybdis situation. Unfortunately, they hit Charybdis.
Standard cruise thrust setting for an A330 with GE engines at their flight level would be close to 90% N1. The engines are very asthmatic above 25000 ft due to thrust lapse and advancing them to TOGA as they were at a point on AF447 won't help you in a stall/approach to stall.
Pitch down first always and then if need be slowly add thrust.
Oh my God, my Heart goes to the families who have lost their Loved Ones. May they All Rest in Peace. Such a tragedy, such a loss! My goodness!
I thought their particular plane was utilizing the side stick feature.
The stall horn stops when the angle of attack exceeds 30deg. Great system huh?
I've seen this report before, to me it seems like this sad tragedy didn't have to happen at all. The pilots poor performance is solely to blame for this!
11 years ago this very moment
why are the boxes in water? is it some kind of protective oil?
After being in water for a while it's best not to change the boxes' environment until you are in the lab where you have all your tools, materials, etc. You don't want the sudden switch from salt water to air to possibility cause deterioration.
Did the pitot tubes not have an anti-ice? Was there not a warning of a pitot tube failure in the cockpit?
Michael Klein The pilot in control didn't know how to fix that. He was underexperienced.
Had Captain Dubois been on the flight deck, that would've been different...
The pitot tubes were prone to freezing and they were in the process of replacing the old pitot tubes with newer ones that won't freeze.
FabioPanucci when I heard the black box recordings years ago that was my initial thoughts. Now I can't find the recordings anywhere. Odd.
Pure horror
Just like any other aircraft incident a series of continuous errors ended in a horrific crash. The time and weather conditions, the fact that the captain left the flight deck while they were flying into a storm, the fact that the pitot tubes malfunctioned, the fact that the design of the sidestick joysticks enabled the less experienced F/O to actually keep the plane into a stall by holding his stick back without the other pilot "feeling it" in his control. A combination of errors.
crappy designed plane. Bonin kept pulling up. This won't happen on a boeing - if it ain't boeing - i ain't going.
This did happen on a boeing several times. Two last ones I remember: Asiana Air 777 i San Francisco - they stalled despite of not-crappy designed B777. 737 Turkish Air in Amsterdam few years ago - same, they stalled 737.. witch is Boeing as far as I know ;) So maybe u stop talking your bullshit..?
***** Well you dont understand in this airbus 2 pilot share 50 % of the controls, if one of the pilots pull up the other pilot wont know unless he/she is told. On a boeing only one person can control the plane at any given time.
***** yes Boeing still can stall but not in the same way as this airbus so you should stop talk your BULLSHIT
roggy12345 They do share 50% but they have also priority button on each one. Using priority buttons is determined by CRM. I believe u know what CRM is. When CRM fails you're fucked up whether you're in Boeing or Airbus. Lack communication between pilots caused plenty crashes and type of aircraft does not have anything to do with that.
***** Pilot error is always there. But this is a design problem not a mechanical failure. This could be fixed.
That crash animation is so bad.
Soda Queen I didn't realize they had to spend massive amounts of money to deliver Oscar worthy animation to please you. This is simulation to give people perspective. If you don't like it, then don't watch.
@@abhishekmahendru1583 he stated a fact "this crash animation is so bad" and you managed to get upset about that lol
So many experts on here and probably not ONE a pilot or been in those exact conditions.
Awawa that Is so sad port people rest and piece
I would blame Bonin, he held back on the stick and didn't tell the other two shit
I do not blame the junior co pilot its the captains bird and he should be 100% in charge when problems occur. He did not say that he was taking the controls during the entire event, this could have been prevented if he took evasive action immediately.
ash ley Both Dubois and Bonin are to blame. What idiot flies into a storm full of St. Elmo's fire?
+Martijn Heyerdahl well, and aircraft is able to fly through storms fine.
Matthew Penguin Plain old storms is one thing. St. Elmo's fire is a whole different story. The latter can strike you down in a second.
Are you crazy... The captain was on his rest time... Do you even know what that mean???? how can he be in charge during his SCHEDULED rest time??? the idiot co-pilot keep pulling back on the control stick during a stall... who would expect a pilot to be so incompetent.
@@rayj5091 I don’t think you took the time to understand my point. When the captain came back into the cockpit, he should had said he was talking control of the aircraft, he did not carry out a handover of control verbally as required.
Iced up pitot tubes have caused other crashes too because of conflicting wind speeds and altitude readings.
Surely pilots can make a “guesstimate” of aircraft speed using the engine revolution readings?
The altitude problem I’m not so sure but if a pilot pointed the nose only slightly above the horizon meter maybe he could buy more time.
@anoolab Yes, thanks. I realized that in between, there was one zero too much (1.800km/h) in my calculations...
The capt took a nap and leaved the jumbo jet to two less experience co pilot..damn damn damn that captain..damn
Fatimah Putri you're a moron. Also, co-pilots are NOT less experienced. Sometimes you might find a copilot who has more hours than a captain. Copilots and captains are held to the same standard. It's only that a captain has the final authority.
TomCook1993 But in this case the co-pilot was indeed much less experienced, and was handed control of the plane just before a thunderstorm...also the captain took too long to return from his nap.
*****
fuck off, why don't you?
Airbuses don't have control columns. They have joysticks at the side!!!
I'll agree with you to a point. I don't know if the ADIs were functioning properly to gauge level flight. A crew can easily become overwhelmed with information during an event. This is particularly true if you receive conflicting or inaccurate information from instruments. Seven miles up with only ocean for over a thousand miles at night, bad weather, and with several malfunctioing instruments, is a nightmare for anyone, especially for a seasoned crew with 200+ souls on board. :(
Actually, I've done many stall recovery maneuvers under the hood with no ASI. Part of IFR training in the event of pitot tube ice over. I've even done spin recovery under the hood just to see what it's like to recover in the circumstance that I do break into a spin in IFR conditions. That's much more complicated. And no, I never would know because I would have done the correct procedure for that situation and never would have let it develop into that type of situation.
Its scary that clowns can qualify as pilots.
I believe you've never flown a plane before
@@hangar1891 YOU clearly never have. You learn from day one to nose down once a stall begins.
RIP
@jaxfr8dog question for u... if the PF would of pushed down on the stick do u think they would of survived? For your info i am a complete layman. Thx much
How scary it’s like your on a free fall ride but it dosnt stop going down until it does then your dead.. rip
Imagine looking out the window, seeing the ocean coming at you at 125mph and realizing you're falling
I think what happened was even scarier than that, because it was so dark outside with no moonlight that the people on the plane couldn't even see the horizon, let alone the water below them. None of the pilots even knew that the plane was falling until the last second when the actual pilot figured it out and said the "This can't be happening" line, followed by the copilot who caused the wreck saying "But what's happening?". The pilots had misinterpreted the sounds from the plane falling for the sounds made from the plane going too fast, because only the copilot who had been pulling back on his side stick even knew that he had been doing that.
I remember seeing a documentary before they even found the black boxes where they explained how at that altitude there was a narrow range of angle that the plane could safely take. If they pitched too far up, then what actually happened is the result, but if they pitched too far down the plane could also stall, from a shockwave building at the back of the wing from the excessive speed. The pilot who had been taking his break came back to chaos, then had to guess whether they were stalling from overspeed or underspeed. I've been really interested in this case for a long time.
@@schneir5 They shouldn’t have been pitching up or down. Should have just kept the airplane as is. It has served them well until that point. It doesn’t make sense to believe that their speed had somehow increased after the auto pilot was turned off if they didn’t feel the increase or if they didn’t input the increase of the speed. There was no reason initially to pull up or down. They could have waited to just pass through the storm with the speed and pitch as it was. In short, don’t fix or change something that ain’t broke.
The pilots probably had no more than 90 seconds before the flight was unrecoverable. The "experts" have had many hours to figure it out. The airspeed had to be within 10 per cent of the ideal number; otherwise, the plane would fall. Imagine having to drive between 68 and 75 miles an hour or your car would crash. Add to that, your speedometer stopped working and it is pitch dark with hail pelting the windshield and winds rocking your car.
To top it off, the computer flight system was instructing the pilot to pull the nose up.
I never heard of going too fast unless in a dive, Why not peg the throttles and stay level or nose down a tad
They ignored stall warning. The most experienced pilot went to sleep when the storm started. The least experienced pilot took the controls of the plane. Put the stick up for even maybe 5 minutes!!!!! There is NO WAY to avoid STALL when you have the nose up when you fly at 11km above the sea level. You don't have to be pilot to know that. It was completely human error, as it is in most of airline disasters. If it is not pilots' fault, then it is the training.
When you are already at a high altitude pulling up hard is very stupid no matter if the instruments were right or wrong about them going to fast or too slow. The air is so thin up there that a hard pull up will put you in a stall in seconds. Rather go down while you know you are still up high. Even if it creates an incident it would be a better bet
'no more than 90 seconds' - only takes one second to push forward on yoke and prevent stall
The plane only told the pilots to pull up when it had reached 2000 feet when the sensors on the plane picked up the ocean surface. All the pilots had to do when the autopilot disengaged was to keep the plane level and to leave the power where it was until they had valid readings back online. Bonin reacted irrationally and thought he could fly above the storm using the TOGA which can only be achieved at low altitude. Why they ignored the stall warnings we will never know.
The auto-pilot and auto-throttle both correctly disconnected on improper airspeed readings, and the crew was alerted and took note. Unfortunately they then made many errors in dealing with the situation, as all evidenced by the final rapport and the CVR transcript.
I'm interested to know from any pilots on here, if the Captain had intervened more quickly and removed Bonin from the FO seat, and took over the controls, at what altitude do you think correcting the pitch angle to nose down attitude would have recovered the stall, regained lift and saved the aircraft?
Not a pilot but. Only 4000 feet. they think he was close to doing this but it was just too late.It is very very sad Air France 447.
I like the way your man consoles the families of the deceased by insisting their experience was HORRIFIC rather than suggesting they were all probably asleep or something