The Pentecostal doctrine derives from using Acts for theology just like CoC does. It goes to show how using that book for theology can leave you at 2 completely different theological positions on separate ends of the spectrum if you don’t read Acts with the Pauline epistles in view.
Acts shows how people become Christians, with many many examples. Paul's epistles are letters to people already saved, already converted. Why would you skip Christ commands in the Great Commission and Acts, the book of conversions. Nothing wrong with the epistles, we learn alot from them.
@@Lee-rp7dl I agree that Acts shows how people become Christians and what the early church did. It shows that those who profess belief in Jesus are commanded to be water baptized. Acts is important as we try to follow the pattern of the early church and keep the bond of unity between believers. The thing is though.. the Pauline epistles go into greater details about what was happening in Acts, specifically details regarding soteriology. Any theology coming from Acts must lean on the epistles for clarification on the how/when of justification and the role of the Holy Spirit post-cannon.
@@Lee-rp7dl starting with the great commission in Matthew 28: “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them inthe name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” Matthew 28:19 ESV Then Acts 2:38 after the first gospel message was preached. To prove they baptized in water.. there is the account in Acts 8 as well as 10: “And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?” And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.” Acts 8:36, 38 ESV ““Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.” Acts 10:47-48 ESV
@@Lee-rp7dl I’d first point to the great commission Matthew 28:19-20. Then Acts 2:38 which is directly after the first gospel message was preached. Water is specifically mentioned in Acts 8:36-38 and Acts 10:47-48 which confirms the early church practiced water baptism. The Acts 8 passage specifically confirms it was by immersion.
Been there, done that: CoX......"Get rid of the Holy Spirit and ignore His existence!!" Pentecostal......"Come Holy Spirit and do ANYTHING with us!" Charismatic......"Embrace the Holy Spirit and all Gifts!!" Calvinism/Reformed......"Everyone has indwelling Spirit, but miracles are mostly out!" Calvary Chapel......."Embrace the Spirit, but be wise and don't go absolutely nuts! Focus on Evangelism!"
Rom 7 >>> Rom 8 demonstrates a progression.... and there are other verses that highlight the victory wrought in the Power of the Spirit >>> Gal 2:20, 5:24, 1 Jn 1:13-14. There are examples in the Gospels too, of course. The doctrine of "Inclusivism" is in error because they've stumbled on many of these examples & misapplied them because of the LACK OF CLARITY circling this issue. The pattern is in the Feast & Temple... Passover >>> Pentecost OuterCourt (Altar & Laver) >>> InnerCourt
Ephesians 1:13-14 makes it clear that the Holy Spirit seals a believer, guaranteeing their salvation. Furthermore, we read that one receives the Holy Spirit when they believe in Jesus Christ. For example, the Holy Spirit fell upon the Gentiles prior to them being baptized because they believed. Baptism was the act of obedience after they were cut to the heart by the word and saved. It was not the basis of their salvation, nor does scripture teach that baptism saves. "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory." (Ephesians 1:13-14) In Acts 10:44-48, we read about the Holy Spirit (who seals and guarantees salvation) falling on the household of Cornelius while the Apostle Peter was witnessing to them, after which they were baptized as an act of obedience to signify their new birth. In Acts Chapter 8, after Philip witnessed to the Ethiopian eunuch, he baptized him AFTER the eunuch said he believed with all of his heart. John the Baptist himself distinguished between water baptism, which he performed as he paved the way for the Lord, and that baptism of the Holy Spirit, who regenerates when a believer receives Him. The Apostle Paul writes: "But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:4-5) Baptism is an outward expression of an inward reality. The Greek word "eis" which is translated as "for" in Acts 2:38, should be translated as "because of" or "enlight of," as notable Greek scholars AT. Robertson and J.R. Mantley have noted. We are saved by grace through faith, not by works. Baptism is an act of obedience that comes naturally to the truly born again, just as all other good works. The innate desire of the regenerated to honor Christ in ALL things inevitably results in good works, but such works are not the basis of our salvation- the work of Christ on the cross saves. To suggest baptism or any other work saves, is to erroneously imply that the works of man can propitiate the wrath of God, regenerate, and justify. What utter nonsense. The only works one is saved by is that of Christ on the cross.
Baptism of the Spirit is literally the gift the comes from God when you believe on the Son of God. Baptism by water is an outward profession of faith but isn't the salvific work of God. Rather a response in obedience to the commands of Christ. The way I see it, someone would likely not choose to be baptized by water if they had not already believed and received the sealing power of the Holy Spirit. Outward profession of faith could be considered fruit of the Spirit as it is literally an open testimony to others. One must also consider water baptism in light of purification rituals found in the Ot law. It has always been a ritualistic, symbolic event, but never actually accomplishing anything. Only Christ would truly accomplish anything in regard to the Law of God. Hope that makes sense. Most people can't necessarily articulate the moment they were sealed by the Holy Spirit. Though some can. I fall into the category of actually knowing the moment I was filled with the Holy Spirit. This of course is subjective, and I don't allege this as a normative experience. The Spirit of God comes as he wills. Only once in terms of sealing a believer. Beyond that, the Holy Spirit works from within a Christian, not falling from heaven like rain or a "pouring". If anyone would like me to expound on any of that with scriptural support just holler. Glory to God the Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ in the Holy Spirit, Amen.
Just a Bible-believing Christian here who believes in the Trinity - Aren't you guys sort of on the flip side of the Pentecostals regarding Baptism? They believe in the HS baptism with evidence of speaking in tongues, & you guys believe in H20 baptism as an outward sign or profession of faith. I don't understand how you can believe in "one baptism" (Eph. 4:5), yet you still require an act in the flesh, which technically makes two baptisms. Paul settled the H2O baptism argument in 1 Corinthians 1:17, did he not? "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect." If Jesus were referring to H2O baptism in Matthew 28:19, and Paul was settling arguments regarding H2O baptisms, & then Paul quite openly denied the words of Christ, saying "Christ sent me not to..." dip people in water. However, Paul was not denying Jesus' words because Jesus was not speaking of H2O baptism. He was telling them to preach the gospel so that the hearers would receive their Holy Spirit baptism (Eph. 1:13). The fact that true baptism has zero to do with H2O is all over the Scriptures. Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. (not H20) 1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: (not H20) Titus 3:4-5 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (not H20) Ephesians 5:25-26 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, (not H20) Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (not H20) Sadly, the Roman Catholic fleshly sacraments (e.g. Eucharist, H20 baptisms) has, I believed, infected the true Church, as most Protestants today partake in whitewashed versions of them. Fleshly sacraments are worthless and are only for a show in the flesh. The same applies to a "Lord's Supper" where Christians eat crackers and drink grape juice. I'm sorry, but that is a perversion of the truth, and it certainly is not how we partake of the Lord's Table or drink the same cup He drank.
Do you believe to be baptized in the name of the Lord(Jesus Christ) is water baptism or holy spirit baptism? Such as acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
@@Lee-rp7dl I believe true baptism is a Holy Spirit baptism, as John the Baptist said in Matt. 3:11, "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire." When Jesus, in Matt. 28 said, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost," He was not talking about dipping people in H2O. Peter was a very adamant and steadfast apostle. It took him, and even the other disciples, time to understand Jesus' words. There are many examples of this, such as when Jesus said beware the leaven of the Pharisees, and they thought He was talking about bread. They didn't realize Jesus was referring to the doctrine and hypocrisy of the Pharisees. Peter was used to rituals and even feared the "circumcision," which is why Paul had to confront him for his "dissimulation" or hypocrisy in Galatians 2:11. That is why Peter thought Jesus required H2O baptism. We see in Acts 10:44 that Peter was preaching and the Holy Spirit, as they "heard" the Word and believed, fell on the gentiles BEFORE they got dipped in H2O. Peter was astonished at that, as we see in verse 47, which is why he says, "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?" In other words, he thought H2O was a requirement, but that only GOD can allow someone to receive the Holy Spirit without being dipped. We see further confirmation of his thoughts in Acts 11 where Peter is giving the "Circumcision" an explanation for why he was eating and fellowshipping with gentiles. Skipping down to verses 15-16, we see his recollection of the moment that the gentiles received the Holy Spirit BEFORE being dipped in H2O. "And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost." He finally understood, after the fact, that Jesus' baptism is a Holy Spirit baptism, not an H2O baptism. Hope that helps. Grace and Peace.
@ByTheBook777 are you saying Peter was wrong about baptism for 8-10 years? Because that's how much time had passed from Acts 2 to Acts 10. What do you think Peter meant by "the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning"(Acts 11:15). Doesn't sound like an everyday event. Sounds to me like hes pointing to when he and the apostles were baptized by the Holy Spirit, fire on their head, sounds of mighty winds, speaking foreign languages.
Baptism of the Spirit is literally the gift the comes from God when you believe on the Son of God. Baptism by water is an outward profession of faith but isn't the salvific work of God. Rather a response in obedience to the commands of Christ. The way I see it, someone would likely not choose to be baptized by water if they had not already believed and received the sealing power of the Holy Spirit. Outward profession of faith could be considered fruit of the Spirit as it is literally an open testimony to others. One must also consider water baptism in light of purification rituals found in the Ot law. It has always been a ritualistic, symbolic event, but never actually accomplishing anything. Only Christ would truly accomplish anything in regard to the Law of God. Hope that makes sense. Most people can't necessarily articulate the moment they were sealed by the Holy Spirit. Though some can. I fall into the category of actually knowing the moment I was filled with the Holy Spirit. This of course is subjective, and I don't allege this as a normative experience. The Spirit of God comes as he wills. Only once in terms of sealing a believer. Beyond that, the Holy Spirit works from within a Christian, not falling from heaven like rain or a "pouring".
@Rhall6451 well think we agree that the Holy spirit is not poured on anyone anymore(fire on their head, sounds of mighty winds, speaking in foreign languages), which happened to the apostles in Acts 2 when the jews were introduced to the church and to Cornelius in Acts 10 when the gentiles were introduced. How would u say you recieved the Holy Spirit baptism? Because christians had to have the apostles hands laid on them to recieve the Holy Spirit. Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
The Pentecostal doctrine derives from using Acts for theology just like CoC does. It goes to show how using that book for theology can leave you at 2 completely different theological positions on separate ends of the spectrum if you don’t read Acts with the Pauline epistles in view.
Acts shows how people become Christians, with many many examples. Paul's epistles are letters to people already saved, already converted. Why would you skip Christ commands in the Great Commission and Acts, the book of conversions. Nothing wrong with the epistles, we learn alot from them.
@@Lee-rp7dl I agree that Acts shows how people become Christians and what the early church did. It shows that those who profess belief in Jesus are commanded to be water baptized. Acts is important as we try to follow the pattern of the early church and keep the bond of unity between believers.
The thing is though.. the Pauline epistles go into greater details about what was happening in Acts, specifically details regarding soteriology. Any theology coming from Acts must lean on the epistles for clarification on the how/when of justification and the role of the Holy Spirit post-cannon.
@Seekingchristdaily Hey thanks!when you say "commanded to be baptized in water", what scripture(s) are you pointing to?
@@Lee-rp7dl starting with the great commission in Matthew 28:
“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them inthe name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,”
Matthew 28:19 ESV
Then Acts 2:38 after the first gospel message was preached. To prove they baptized in water.. there is the account in Acts 8 as well as 10:
“And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?” And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.”
Acts 8:36, 38 ESV
““Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.”
Acts 10:47-48 ESV
@@Lee-rp7dl I’d first point to the great commission Matthew 28:19-20. Then Acts 2:38 which is directly after the first gospel message was preached.
Water is specifically mentioned in Acts 8:36-38 and Acts 10:47-48 which confirms the early church practiced water baptism. The Acts 8 passage specifically confirms it was by immersion.
Martin Loyd Jones did an entire sermon series on the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I just started listening to it.
john ch 3 , ro 8 , that same spirit that raised jesus will raise us
Been there, done that:
CoX......"Get rid of the Holy Spirit and ignore His existence!!"
Pentecostal......"Come Holy Spirit and do ANYTHING with us!"
Charismatic......"Embrace the Holy Spirit and all Gifts!!"
Calvinism/Reformed......"Everyone has indwelling Spirit, but miracles are mostly out!"
Calvary Chapel......."Embrace the Spirit, but be wise and don't go absolutely nuts! Focus on Evangelism!"
Without Jesus' direct testimony of the N.T. books, no one can verify that the orthodox NT canon is actually scripture.
Rom 7 >>> Rom 8 demonstrates a progression.... and there are other verses that highlight the victory wrought in the Power of the Spirit >>> Gal 2:20, 5:24, 1 Jn 1:13-14. There are examples in the Gospels too, of course.
The doctrine of "Inclusivism" is in error because they've stumbled on many of these examples & misapplied them because of the LACK OF CLARITY circling this issue.
The pattern is in the Feast & Temple...
Passover >>> Pentecost
OuterCourt (Altar & Laver) >>> InnerCourt
Excited to watch! Keeping it 1689!
Ephesians 1:13-14 makes it clear that the Holy Spirit seals a believer, guaranteeing their salvation. Furthermore, we read that one receives the Holy Spirit when they believe in Jesus Christ. For example, the Holy Spirit fell upon the Gentiles prior to them being baptized because they believed. Baptism was the act of obedience after they were cut to the heart by the word and saved. It was not the basis of their salvation, nor does scripture teach that baptism saves.
"In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory." (Ephesians 1:13-14)
In Acts 10:44-48, we read about the Holy Spirit (who seals and guarantees salvation) falling on the household of Cornelius while the Apostle Peter was witnessing to them, after which they were baptized as an act of obedience to signify their new birth.
In Acts Chapter 8, after Philip witnessed to the Ethiopian eunuch, he baptized him AFTER the eunuch said he believed with all of his heart.
John the Baptist himself distinguished between water baptism, which he performed as he paved the way for the Lord, and that baptism of the Holy Spirit, who regenerates when a believer receives Him.
The Apostle Paul writes:
"But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:4-5)
Baptism is an outward expression of an inward reality. The Greek word "eis" which is translated as "for" in Acts 2:38, should be translated as "because of" or "enlight of," as notable Greek scholars AT. Robertson and J.R. Mantley have noted.
We are saved by grace through faith, not by works.
Baptism is an act of obedience that comes naturally to the truly born again, just as all other good works. The innate desire of the regenerated to honor Christ in ALL things inevitably results in good works, but such works are not the basis of our salvation- the work of Christ on the cross saves.
To suggest baptism or any other work saves, is to erroneously imply that the works of man can propitiate the wrath of God, regenerate, and justify. What utter nonsense.
The only works one is saved by is that of Christ on the cross.
Baptism of the Spirit is literally the gift the comes from God when you believe on the Son of God. Baptism by water is an outward profession of faith but isn't the salvific work of God. Rather a response in obedience to the commands of Christ.
The way I see it, someone would likely not choose to be baptized by water if they had not already believed and received the sealing power of the Holy Spirit. Outward profession of faith could be considered fruit of the Spirit as it is literally an open testimony to others. One must also consider water baptism in light of purification rituals found in the Ot law. It has always been a ritualistic, symbolic event, but never actually accomplishing anything. Only Christ would truly accomplish anything in regard to the Law of God. Hope that makes sense.
Most people can't necessarily articulate the moment they were sealed by the Holy Spirit. Though some can. I fall into the category of actually knowing the moment I was filled with the Holy Spirit. This of course is subjective, and I don't allege this as a normative experience. The Spirit of God comes as he wills. Only once in terms of sealing a believer. Beyond that, the Holy Spirit works from within a Christian, not falling from heaven like rain or a "pouring".
If anyone would like me to expound on any of that with scriptural support just holler. Glory to God the Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ in the Holy Spirit, Amen.
Just a Bible-believing Christian here who believes in the Trinity - Aren't you guys sort of on the flip side of the Pentecostals regarding Baptism? They believe in the HS baptism with evidence of speaking in tongues, & you guys believe in H20 baptism as an outward sign or profession of faith. I don't understand how you can believe in "one baptism" (Eph. 4:5), yet you still require an act in the flesh, which technically makes two baptisms.
Paul settled the H2O baptism argument in 1 Corinthians 1:17, did he not? "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect." If Jesus were referring to H2O baptism in Matthew 28:19, and Paul was settling arguments regarding H2O baptisms, & then Paul quite openly denied the words of Christ, saying "Christ sent me not to..." dip people in water.
However, Paul was not denying Jesus' words because Jesus was not speaking of H2O baptism. He was telling them to preach the gospel so that the hearers would receive their Holy Spirit baptism (Eph. 1:13). The fact that true baptism has zero to do with H2O is all over the Scriptures.
Hebrews 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. (not H20)
1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: (not H20)
Titus 3:4-5
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (not H20)
Ephesians 5:25-26
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, (not H20)
Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (not H20)
Sadly, the Roman Catholic fleshly sacraments (e.g. Eucharist, H20 baptisms) has, I believed, infected the true Church, as most Protestants today partake in whitewashed versions of them. Fleshly sacraments are worthless and are only for a show in the flesh. The same applies to a "Lord's Supper" where Christians eat crackers and drink grape juice. I'm sorry, but that is a perversion of the truth, and it certainly is not how we partake of the Lord's Table or drink the same cup He drank.
Do you believe to be baptized in the name of the Lord(Jesus Christ) is water baptism or holy spirit baptism? Such as acts 2:38
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
@@Lee-rp7dl I believe true baptism is a Holy Spirit baptism, as John the Baptist said in Matt. 3:11, "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire." When Jesus, in Matt. 28 said, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost," He was not talking about dipping people in H2O.
Peter was a very adamant and steadfast apostle. It took him, and even the other disciples, time to understand Jesus' words. There are many examples of this, such as when Jesus said beware the leaven of the Pharisees, and they thought He was talking about bread. They didn't realize Jesus was referring to the doctrine and hypocrisy of the Pharisees.
Peter was used to rituals and even feared the "circumcision," which is why Paul had to confront him for his "dissimulation" or hypocrisy in Galatians 2:11. That is why Peter thought Jesus required H2O baptism. We see in Acts 10:44 that Peter was preaching and the Holy Spirit, as they "heard" the Word and believed, fell on the gentiles BEFORE they got dipped in H2O. Peter was astonished at that, as we see in verse 47, which is why he says, "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?" In other words, he thought H2O was a requirement, but that only GOD can allow someone to receive the Holy Spirit without being dipped.
We see further confirmation of his thoughts in Acts 11 where Peter is giving the "Circumcision" an explanation for why he was eating and fellowshipping with gentiles. Skipping down to verses 15-16, we see his recollection of the moment that the gentiles received the Holy Spirit BEFORE being dipped in H2O.
"And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost."
He finally understood, after the fact, that Jesus' baptism is a Holy Spirit baptism, not an H2O baptism. Hope that helps. Grace and Peace.
@ByTheBook777 are you saying Peter was wrong about baptism for 8-10 years? Because that's how much time had passed from Acts 2 to Acts 10. What do you think Peter meant by "the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning"(Acts 11:15). Doesn't sound like an everyday event. Sounds to me like hes pointing to when he and the apostles were baptized by the Holy Spirit, fire on their head, sounds of mighty winds, speaking foreign languages.
Baptism of the Spirit is literally the gift the comes from God when you believe on the Son of God. Baptism by water is an outward profession of faith but isn't the salvific work of God. Rather a response in obedience to the commands of Christ.
The way I see it, someone would likely not choose to be baptized by water if they had not already believed and received the sealing power of the Holy Spirit. Outward profession of faith could be considered fruit of the Spirit as it is literally an open testimony to others. One must also consider water baptism in light of purification rituals found in the Ot law. It has always been a ritualistic, symbolic event, but never actually accomplishing anything. Only Christ would truly accomplish anything in regard to the Law of God. Hope that makes sense.
Most people can't necessarily articulate the moment they were sealed by the Holy Spirit. Though some can. I fall into the category of actually knowing the moment I was filled with the Holy Spirit. This of course is subjective, and I don't allege this as a normative experience. The Spirit of God comes as he wills. Only once in terms of sealing a believer. Beyond that, the Holy Spirit works from within a Christian, not falling from heaven like rain or a "pouring".
@Rhall6451 well think we agree that the Holy spirit is not poured on anyone anymore(fire on their head, sounds of mighty winds, speaking in foreign languages), which happened to the apostles in Acts 2 when the jews were introduced to the church and to Cornelius in Acts 10 when the gentiles were introduced.
How would u say you recieved the Holy Spirit baptism? Because christians had to have the apostles hands laid on them to recieve the Holy Spirit.
Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.