"Objects at Rest" - Babylon 5 - Season 5 Episode 21 - Reaction
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- Опубликовано: 3 июл 2024
- #babylon5 #b5 #reaction
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It’s possible Sheridan thinks his vision of Londo in the future was from the same alternate timeline that Garabaldi’s vision is from, and that him going to Za Ha Dun against Delenn’s wishes prevented it from coming to pass that way.
@@GuardianOwl No such luck.
An interesting piece of casting history.
This episode was the last production of the series proper. The episode entitled "Infection" (episode 4 of season 1) was the first episode produced (not including the pilot episode) in the series proper. Marshall Teague appeared as a guest star in both episodes.
There are no coincidences
The novel trilogy Legions of Fire completes the story of Londo G'Kar and Vir, and involves the Technomages. Peter David wrote them off JMA's outline. They're very good books.
Yup, highly recommended read!
JMS turning Lennier into a loser incel is probably the worst thing this show ever did.
It really was a bad choice.
ruclips.net/video/kJWqpF1FAoE/видео.htmlsi=4CttyO-ZZrUboRVu
I totally agree.
You can't deny it has very real undertones. Jelousy, forgivness, shame. I think of it as a tragic story, that also enriches the B5 experience. This is not Star Trek with happy endings for everyone.
The foundation of that turn, though, was planted quite a while back. When Sheridan appeared after being dead, the look on Lenier's face was one of anger and resentment.
@@nefethrul We discuss the merits of it on our podcast but the actual ending of Lennier is just handled in such a poor fashion. What gets me about the betrayal was that he almost killed not just Sheridan but a fellow ranger only for the rest of the episode not to even mention that.
Genuinely made me howl with "I told you, you can't trust a simp". Most I've laughed in days, so thanks for that man!
Lochley’s biggest problem was simply that she wasn’t Ivanova, and that certainly wasn’t Tracey Scoggins’ fault. She came in late, under dubious circumstances, and her character really wasn’t given much air time to develop. Plus, she didn’t get to really shine as Commander of B5 because Sheridan was still the center of attention and authority, making her almost seem redundant.
On the other hand, Ivanova was a commanding figure from the start, didn't need a whole year to establish herself, was never the center of attention, and was never redundant.
One major thing Ivanova had, that Lockley didn't, was a sense of humor, which helped humanize her and make her relatable.
@@miller-joelIvanova was pretty dour in Season 1.
@@sdfried4877 I don't remember any time when she was not awesome.
2 things" 1) While I like JMS as a writer, he has a tendency to write "strong assertive female" the same. There's not a big difference broadly between Takashima, Ivanova and Lochley.
2): Lochley was necessary with Sherdan's promotion. She herself wasn't necessary for the greater plot. They needed someone who was available for the upcoming movies and series, where Lochley was developed further.,
@@Mauther I’d say all three characters were sort of cut-outs. Takashima and Number One both had less screen time than Lochley so they weren’t particularly fleshed out either. I don’t think Susan was particularly relatable until Sheridan showed up and she opened to him (and us).
Probably the closest he got to playing Batman was in the TV show Scarecrow and Mrs. King King where he played a secret agent. Though he has kind of a Batman Beyond-like relationship with the main character in the animated series Tron Uprising.
Bill Mumy is on record as HATING his character's final destination. But I think most fans realize: this was telegraphed right from season one, and Mumy's surprise is inexplicable.
Crusade (with the opening film "A Call To Arms") is.... uneven. It's a bit awkward in some episodes and ab-so-lutely-dammit AWESOME in others. I'm looking forward to YOUR reaction.
I know Bill Mumy suggested to JMS that Lennier was in love with Delenn and JMS replied that it would make him Lancelot and Lancelot does not end well. I think what Lennier did was a bit OOC, but there had been enough lead up to it that it doesn't bother me.
Nice touch with the music over Franklin's departure.
"Break my heart" was what JMS told Christopher Franke as instructions for the soundpiece that sounded when they saluted across space... and damn, it worked.
The ending of B5 is almost like that of Lord of the Rings: a slow denouement with some more excitement sprinkled in, but mostly time to say goodbye to all our characters. There's a nice music video for the final episode set to Into the West, and it fits incredibly well :)
Such a great episode. I absolutely loved seeing the new crew of B5 all together for John and Delenn’s send off. But I absolutely hate what JMS did with Lennier though. I know a few people who liked it, but a lot of people don’t. I personally think it was one of JMS’s worst decisions.
As for John remembering the future with Londo…he does remember, but he believes he can prevent that future from happening. John doesn’t realize that Londo and Centauri Prime are already on that path. And Delenn doesn’t remember at all, because this Delenn wasn’t there and hasn’t seen that yet. That was Delenn from that time period.
I really loved seeing Londo in this one. Trying desperately to get a bit of alcohol to subdue his keeper. If only there’d been a little booze…what could’ve been 😢
On to the finale!!!
There were 2 spinoff series - the first did a pilot movie and never managed to get a series - that was Legend of the Rangers, the other was Crusade, which sadly was ended early because the network kept interfering and so JMS pulled the plug - his contract limited his creative control so when he felt the series was being ruined by the interference, he did the one thing he did have control of - he ended the series.
I'm going to defend the Sheridan not understanding that Londo has a keeper as simply this....
We the audience know because we have watched what has happened. All Sheridan knows that (as far as he knows) the Centauri Regent purchased Shadow tech on the black market and used it to attack the alliance member ships.
Then Londo stopped the plan before forcing a political withdrawal from the alliance.
Unless Sheridan knows the drakh are there, it's hard to conclude that Londo has a keeper. Even if Shadow tech is now available on the black market.
Like it's been said on another reaction channel: Episode 21 ends season 5, episode 22 ends the series. Thanks for taking us on this journey
My biggest complaint about this episode has always been Lenier. I don't think he was portrayed right. Personally I think he would have turned to leave maybe taken a step away but then turned back to help Sheridan. And that would've been enough for Sheridan to see that he couldn't be trusted and for Lenier to be shamed.
Only Sheridan had that glimpse of the future in the Centauri throne room, Delenn did not (she was actually there in that timeline.) Now, as to why Sheridan does not remember: likely the jumping around in time caused him some sort of mental instability and he is blocking the future unconsciously.
He remembers, It's just he thinks that future was changed..
Looking ahead. We live in an era of finales that many fans think miss the mark, dropped the ball, didn't stick the landing (see HIMYM, Dexter, GOT, etc.) B5's finale dropped no balls, missed no marks and stuck the landing perfectly IMHO. I consider it one of the best series finales there are. Also, Kleenex.
Sheridan said it when he went to Z'Ha'Dum in his message to Delenn. He was convinced that if he listened to her, when future her told her not to go, and did not go to Z'Ha'Dum, that was what would lead to the happenings on Centauri Prime. Also, Londo's words indicated that the allies of the Shadows were responsible for the destruction. It holds slightly true since it was Shadow-tech piloting Centauri craft that attacked the other governments and provoked the others into attacking.
Now I’m profoundly sad we never got a Sheridan Batman. He would have been really good.
Lennier's feelings are not just in Delenn's blind spot; they are in her unreasonable blind spot.
This was the season 5 end, next is the series end.
I love those final episodes. It's hard to keep the eyes dry 😉
Oh, Lennier! Remeber what Morden said in Day of the Dead?
Be seeing you for the next one.
Mega felt angry at the end... Check your shoulder for a keeper buddy!!! 😂😂
These days Bruce Boxleitner could make for a good Thomas Wayne
It would have been so easy to fix Delenn's reactions to Lennier by drawing a parallel to her mentor and herself. Or say something to the effect that sexual relationships between a master and an apprentice in the religious caste were taboo, even blasphemous. Either would give support to an inability to accept or even acknowledge Lennier's feelings.
Only remembering maybe's, There's no way of knowing if that future is still the destiny of things, Or if things were changed enough to avoid it..
I got the Beastmaster reference. Watched that movie many times growing up.
Bill Mummy (Lanier) has said in an interview that he hated Lanier turning on Sheridan and didn't feel that his character would have done that. He loved Delenn, but would never have stopped so low. I'm glad you don't really hate Lockley. While I much prefer Ivanova, Lockley had some good moments. Her interactions with Garibaldi were always fun. I really liked her talk with him about the drinking. I liked her much more on rewatch. Byron, on the other hand, still gets on my nerves.
Tanya Roberts was a most excellent reason to watch a movie in those days, especially that one.
Lochley is fine, and I think given time, she would have had her own good character arc which would have elevated her
When John in the end made that audio, he said that he has only 19 years left. But Lorien healed him and said "no more than 20 years" very early in season 4, so he should have now only 18 years!?
Sheridan should have done to Lenier, what he did to the door. Put the fighting pike on him and push the button.
When Delenn lies I always check if she's saving someone's face
Sheridan doesn't know how it got to that point and is still hoping to prevent it
Find yourself someone and look at them with your editing eyes.
B5 is a Kit Kat bar?
I wish we had gotten more of Lockley's transition from skeptical of the B5 crew in the wake of Sheridan's mutiny to understanding what was going on out is space with the First Ones and the Shadows. I expect a lot of if not most of that was classified by Earth Command and the government so as far as she knew when she got to B5 was just these guys were a bunch of radicals ready to sit in judgement of their superiors at any moment. I gt the feeling by the way Tracy played her Lockley had a better idea of what was really going on by the time of Day of the Dead because she seems much less skeptical of the professional judgement of the B5 crew by then.
One thing that bugged me was over John saying they couldn't really know what was going on in Lenier's mind. John, this is a world with real telepaths. Of course, you can know what was going on in his mind.
Agreed about the memory but John and Delenn don't know when he will get possessed by the Keeper. I am sure that's why Londo wanted the whisky at dinner so he could tell them what was up.
Non-alcoholic whiskey for Garibaldi [if you could invent such a thing and make it taste exactly the same, that would be a success]
Can't live without out him as a friend and companion, Not as a lover.. 😂
26:45 "Just don't ask Delenn for relationship advice."
You're only partially listening to what is being said. She doesn't say 'I can't imagine my life without you'. She says 'I can't imagine a life without you in it.' They are 2 very different things. Also earlier when she says that she had no idea, it's followed by the information that she has just discovered that in the diary/journal that Lennier considered their union a mistake. Not that she had no idea about his feelings. Details matter.
Pity about the shit music covering over Christopher Franke's masterful score for Sheridan's salute.
@wrorchestra1 Talk to YT copyright rules on that one. Want the version unedited go to Patreon.
@@MegaReacts oh I understand the copyright rules but it doesn't require other music to be played over the top. Simply mute the sound with a little tag saying "muted for copyright reasons". I know this soundtrack very well, and other music totally detracts from Franke's score and how it increases the emotion of the scene.
@wrorchestra1 I assume anyone who watches reactions knows if music is missing its due to copyright. I figured some music was better than none. It is what it is.
11:50 My man, I don't think it was ever taped. It might be something to do with the showtime/rating they were shooting for with the series.
It would have been fun to watch thats for sure :D
Maybe AI ?
I am so looking forward to your reaction to the final ending of this fantastic tv series 🤩
You're not being realistic, Mega, a people's psyches are more complex thin you realize. If you had a beast friend that you knew from childhood, and your friendship made y'all as close as brothers only for he or she had to leave your life because of dazes, witness protection, or any other resin. Wood it not, be hurt not to see them in your life. I know my example is completely different to the shows but my argument stand.
As for Delin she always saw Linear as her pupil, a little brother, and a friend in her heart. Linear only falling was not saying anything to her at all about he's feelings past or present, and used the excuse a whole lot of men use; "It could hurt our relationship, so I'll just keep it all lock away, and bury it.
If it helps, this character assassination was done because Bill Mumy asked JMS for to get a love interest for Linear.
I've said my peace, please don't crucify me for it.
P.S. Crusade, starts after one of the b5 movies
P.S.S. Linear dies a hero's death in the books alongside Lita Alexander
@NCC-72545A But when that person has feeling for you that you do not share and is willing to kill to have you all to themselves, it would be time to end such a relationship.
I am almost finished with Crusade.
@@MegaReacts Oh, by the way - neither Lyta nor Lennier's deaths have ever been resolved.
Heavily implied - but never spelt out.
So Lennier just may have survived... you never know?
Also, Sheridan saw the future of Centauri Prime, but is not sure if he altered that outcome.
Delenn didn't see any of it, meantime.
We do get several characters back in the new The Road Home animated special... incidentally.
False. Delenn did know Lennier loved her, but she obviously thought it was what he himself one described to Marcus as a "pure, noble love", not exactly a romantic kind. Which is what he did feel about her at first. It has simply grown into a very romantic type, but Delenn never realized that. So she was completely justified in her surprise.
Yes, only Sheridan witnessed the Keeper on Londo in his flashforward. But first, he cannot know if it was the possible future that will actually happen or one that is irrelevant at this point. Second, you can hardly keep arrresting and inspecting the emperor of a foreign nation for the next couple decades on the off chance that *now* he has an alien parasite.
Lochley is maybe not bad, but she is a poor substitute for Ivanova.