Bally's Display Voltage! - Eight Ball Deluxe L.E. Pinball Machine
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- Опубликовано: 11 мар 2024
- We have been working on an Eight Ball Deluxe L.E. Pinball Machine for a customer, and we have to repair the displays amongst other things. If your early Bally Solid State machine has no display voltage (or it's too high) this should help you out! The Display voltage can spike and burn up your displays!
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Get Merchandise, T-Shirts, Mugs, and links to all the tools and parts we suggest for repairs on our website at www.LyonsArcade.com/Parts.html
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See My Brother Donnie's Awesome Channel at : / @mybrotherdonnie
See Our Other Channel, Amateur Repair Time, at:
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Our store is located at 139 Caldwell St., Rock Hill, SC 29730. 
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Repairing pinball machines is the equivalent of being a secret squirrel airborne ranger/delta force/frogman sniper/John Wick in the electronic-mechanical troubleshooting world, with solid state work thrown in for a touch of panache. Respect to you both Ron and Joe. Have a great day!
Thank you Ronnie, admittedly I don’t know squat about electronics. Your practical experience, bulldog persistence and ability to explain complex problems even a dumb former truck driver can understand are appreciated.
I'm smart enough to know Truck Drivers aren't dumb :) This machine was made with 1000 parts and everyone of them was delivered by a Truck Driver
Nice work. Board fixing is good. Anyone can buy a new part, but fixing it is an actual repair.
Tell ‘em brother
Ronnie, the schematics are trying to tell you what those voltages should be (in parenthesis). Since the capacitors were not on the 12V or 230V, you were measuring the unfiltered DC...so there was a lot of ripple and your meter would read the average voltage it was seeing.
As you said, I'm not watching for the proper names of the components. I'm watching because it's interesting to see someone step through the logic of diagnosing and repairing, and how these old machines work
Great video Ronnie. Great advice on how to fix an early Bally board. I am glad you had 1 left of old stock, I hope you order more of them. Thanks for filming great series of far can't wait to see the next video.
I learned heaps …about a lot of stuff I don’t really understand all that well. …As I’m strictly an EM guy, fortunately a lot of this is not specifically relevant…but it’s still interesting to me, and I try to absorb all I can. …I have owned several Solid state machines in the past, and even an Indiana Jones, so I may well need all the great info you gave up on this video. Thanks again Ronnie and Joe.
….I read the reviews on google. ….There’s nothing easy at all about dealing with the general public, especially nowadays where manners and courtesy seem to be often forgotten. I think you guys deserve a medal!
It's pretty unbelievable how people conduct themselves sometimes, I try to be as nice as I can to everybody but you know how it is sometimes styles clash :)
Awesome
She coming together nicely😊
Another great educational video! This is becoming a dying art and we need guys like this to teach the next generation on these beautiful historic machines! Thanks
the playfield was marvelously accomplished. just a matter of functionality. somehow EM tables have more Charm than multiBall wide tables and video terminals. can't wait to see the Test when finished up.
Thanks for a great video on a nice pinball .
👍👍👍🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪
great job so far. I can't wait to see the machine running with the displays installed.
That’s true.. the rebuild kits are getting hard to find. Just piece it together yourself. These Bally/Sterns are fun to work on as long as you have the parts.
This has been a great series, can't wait to see the next part.
Anytime I've had those components short, it's usually because of one or more bad displays. Good job so far!
Hey Ron!! And at 19:30 Hey Joe!!
Hey Jason!
Thank you for breaking down the components like you do.
Those resistors on the diode bridges are for discharging downstream filter caps.
Look at you, makin things go!!
Addressing the issue @ 29:20 in the video. Here is an important rule to remember about testing resistors in circuit. The value can always go down, but it should never go up. If the reading on your meter is showing higher then the printed value of the resistor. I can guarantee you the resistor is bad. I would recheck that 100K that going across the line again.
If the measured value is too high _and_ you know there isn't any power in the circuit you know the resistor is bad. If there are charged capacitors it can throw off resistance measurements either way.
In this circuit if the output voltage has any charge remaining the 100k resistor will read high. I'm not sure if this is the case or not. Fortunately the 100k resistor is 100% unnecessary for correct circuit operation. It is only there to drain the capacitor when power is removed.
Thanks for all you do to teach us the way!
hah!!! Just as I start making lunch... Ron drops a video.
Thanks for the lunch fun Ron, 😁
Looking good Ron! Thanks for the video!
I had one of those here in the UK , really regret selling it , fantastic game.
replacing it with a newer model is okay, i would rather try and fix it, for me its more fun that way
I feel the same way, I'd much rather fix the original stuff.
Usually if the input and output voltage are the same, i replace all 3 transistors, as it all snowballs. And that pot.. always replaced..
Looking forward to the finish line on this one.
Modified Darlington in the display regulator. I've seen some regulators using a low power regulator chip driving a buck converter. A lot less heat dissipation. Amazing to see this stuff. BTW people are confused by the transistor looking like some of the 7805s most are familiar with. That is a regulator circuit. LOL
No integrated regulator for 190v in those days. Engineers had to make their own solid state regulator from what was printed in books. :)
That blown high voltage circuit is a sign that someone dialed the regulator down too low. The factory spec was 190v and the temptation is to dial it as low as possible to 170v or so to preserver the displays. The problem is the lower you go the more stress is put onto the regulator circuit which essentially works by turning the excess voltage into heat. Setting it at 180v is a good compromise voltage. Newbies out there should be advised not to go much lower unless they want to perform this troubleshooting exercise themselves.
It's worth remembering that the current draw decreases when the output voltage is lowered. That reduces regulator heat output which likely cancels out the extra heat from the additional drop.
As it was explained to me back in the day. The unneeded voltage must go somewhere. While current draw through Q21 decreases the excess voltage and current from the input bleads off through R51 and Q23. This translates into extra heat stress on those parts.@@eDoc2020
@@areizman R51 and Q23 will indeed run a bit hotter remember they aren't what failed. After doing some math (shown below) I can say with confidence they are well within safe operating area even with a greatly reduced output voltage. Actually R51 gets close under worst case conditions but its failure won't damage anything else and an upgraded 1W replacement only costs a few handfuls of cents.
R51 needs 104v to exceed its power rating. With a worst-case 257v input this means 153v output. With a more realistic 245->170v drop the 1/2 watt resistor is still at a very safe 0.26 watt dissipation. The control transistor is rated at 1 watt dissipation in 50C ambient with no heatsink. Under the worst case 257->153v scenario (with no load) it's still under 0.73 watts. This is a bit close to the 1W limit but since this transistor has a small heatsink the limit is more than 1W.
And for future reference: Q21 = pass transistor 2n3584, Q22 = Darlington driver 2n3440, Q23 = controller 2n3440, R51 = base pull-up (22k 1/2w). Input voltage = 230+-27vdc, specified output = 190+-5vdc.
thank you so much for the video's also love the joe's arcade specials.
keep them going :) grretings to your brother
Thanks guys,another informative video .x
Good troubleshooting methods!
Awwww yeah, a good use of LED on that absolutely stunning playfield.
The DC voltage increases when you plug the power suplly board in because you have unfiltered, rectified DC.
The caps will filter to about the peak voltage vs the RMS voltage of the rectified DC. Some multimeters, especially cheap ones don't measure pulsed/rectified DC accurately. True RMS meters are much better at this. Especially Fluke ones.
This is exactly why your 180 ish volts goes to 250 ish volts when you plugged it in.
Math is 183V * 1.414 = 258 V for the plasma display regulator input.
The 1.414 is from the sqrt 2 used in AC RMS calculations.
The 15 ish volts on the 12V rail, from the 6 ish V input - something must be connecting together, adding voltages,, possibly 2 sections of the power supply to get up to that voltage. Or even the possibly of something floating, voltage wise, until it's joined when plugged into the regulator board
I think the number of failed components makes sense. First, the big transistor failed, making the output voltage too high. Then the bottom transistor turned on harder in order to try to lower the voltage. This made it die and short. This put ground on the base of the middle transistor which had two effects. With ground on the base and +230v on the emitter it blew open. It also left the full 230 volts across the 22k resistor which made it run hot and char.
Question: How do you deal with the extra long leads on those filter caps? Throughout the whole video, I was worried that the black leads were close to touching. I know you don’t need comments from the peanut gallery, but those leads were making ME short out! Probably just fine IRL, but scarry-looking on the video. Do you hot-glue the leads so they don’t touch?
They're rubber wires, so it doesn't matter if they touch. Those are the factory wires, we didn't add that
JOE, How does the capacitor on the solenoid board increase/raise the display voltage from 180vdc to 230vdc?
When u add a cap to a diode bridge it increases the volts by 1.414 x the ac volts because its flat line dc and not ripple dc.
@@robertknott260 Why would it increase the AC voltage by 1.414? If the AC voltage is 180VAC X 1.414 = 254.52 VAC? , its not 230vdc but 254.52
@@waynegram8907 1.414 is the square root of two which is the ratio between RMS voltage and peak voltage of a sine wave. If the input is 180VAC then the output voltage of an unloaded rectifier and capacitor is 254 volts. I thought this was very close to what Ron measured on camera. The reason it's around 10% more than the schematic says is because it's unregulated. Ron's outlets have about 125v instead of the expected 120v so the output voltage will similarly 4% higher. He's also measuring the voltage without a load. When the displays turn on they will draw current which reduces the voltage a bit more.
hate the looks of that orange filter cap and one of the leads on the new black cap is too long and could touch the other lead.......ok I see now that he has insulators on the wires
Those leads coming off the new Black cap were making me nervous the whole video!
those LEDs are way to white. I think a warmer color would look much better
True. Cold white LED´s look disgusting in anything from that era.
Yodelayheehoo
Hello Lil Everette!
Getting closer to "Eight Ball Deluxe....3 ball" (unless it's set to 5, but c'mon people, people you just can't, people. You don't make money...c'mon people).
Thanks to @ToddFun for the nifty meter
Yup!
Great video as usual! But that multimeter didn't come from a customer but from viewer @toddfun. He used to be an almost neighbor of mine when I lived in Arizona, that's why I remember.
Yes I kept saying customer but I meant Viewer