I remember getting my 360 and being excited to play a couple games from the original Xbox only to find out only select games were made backwards compatible, and the two I picked up didn't make the cut. And it boggles my mind why there isn't more passion to preserve old games cause gamers have shown time and time again that they will go back and replay the same game over and over because I just love it. And after a while, old systems are no longer made so god forbid your backup PS2 goes up and the games you liked aren't preserved elsewhere.
I'm on my second PS2 and it occasionally makes angry noises when I turn it on, so that is a very real fear! And I believe the official explanation I've heard is that only a minority of users play the older games so therefore since the platform holders aren't making ALL the money, there's no point (I didn't say it was a good reason)
I realize they're not "modern" consoles, but a number of the unavailable games listed at the end are still available for purchase on the PS3 and/or Vita PSN stores. Those libraries are only visible via the consoles themselves (so that means you'd need to deal with the slow PS3 store to even see what's available), but a few are still legally purchasable in some form. Fatal Frame 2 and God Hand, for example, are currently available on the PS3 as "PS2 Classics" (in the US, at least). Obviously modern ports would be ideal but, as of right now, you can still legally pick up at least a few more items on that list if you have one of those systems.
Fair point, but those stores have already been threatened with closure. Obviously, they're still around as Sony reversed their plans for now, but that does place them in a precarious position, so it didn't feel right to count them. Plus the systems aren't as readily available as the current gen, which is another factor
This was an exceptional work! Thank you so much for the dive. It's frightening how much our gaming history's landscape changes year over year, as I'm sure this video would look markedly different had it released today as opposed to February 2023, if for no other reason than because the 360 Marketplace is now gone.
It probably won't look much different to be honest, as I wasn't looking at the 360 Marketplace in the first place. The fact it's gone now is kinda why, as I started putting the video together when Sony were threatening to close the PS3 store. It felt wrong to count anything on that generation of consoles as "available" when the stores themselves were under threat! I don't know how the closure of the 360 Marketplace affected the backwards compatibility on modern Xbox consoles though. That was my metric for most of the Xbox stuff, after all, and I only counted them if they had a modern Xbox page that specified the One/Series consoles. Because of those pages they're likely unaffected but I wouldn't be surprised if something got culled in the process.
@@Bobthepetferret I don't think it affects the "backwards compatibility" aspect, as if you own the game already, you can still play it on the newer system. It's just an availability problem in that a lot of games for sale on the 360 marketplace are not available on the Xbox One/Series stores. :(
Not only are the numbers surprisingly high, they're also higher since I released the video, thanks to things like Game Boy/GBA games on Switch Online, and Ridge Racer 4 being added to PS Plus this week (as I suspected they might do)
minesweeper is genuinely one of my favorite games, it's always felt really timeless to me and it feels pretty historic so I feel that's why it's in the book
Yep! My feeling of "why's this in here?" is an irrational emotional one where I feel like it's not a "real" game, before I realise that's a stupid thing to think and that, yes, an iconic casual game a lot of people played (including me) is absolutely deserving of being recognised as an important game. Like you said, it's timeless
I was shocked to see that this video has so few views. Incredible research and amazing presentation. As someone who is very passionate about media preservation, this was one of my favorite videos in ages. If the Super Mario RPG remake had been announced by this video, does it seem close enough to the original to include in your opinion?
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed the video! As for Super Mario RPG, it's a grey area, so it would go in the remakes section with stuff like Shadow of the Colossus and Yakuza Kiwami 2
Found his channel doing research for this video. I am both impressed and scared by that guy. I considered doing what he's doing and instantly rejected the idea but, man, he's still going. Although, thanks to his efforts, I did end up using one of his videos here because it was pretty much the only footage of that game on RUclips! Might have been Slitherlink?
@@Bobthepetferret Coincidentally I was dusting them off only this afternoon whilst having a tidy up. Last time we played Buzz on an old PS2 our daughter was too young to read so hard for her to play along. Several years later she'll now be fine :)
Oh I'm aware! He found this video and mentioned it in one of his videos, which I commented on to say thanks! He's also the source of the Sokoban footage in this video, as he seemed to be the only person on RUclips who had played the original version. It is impressive work that he's stuck with the project so long. I would not have been able to, so he has my respect
Fun fact: you can be critical of a company like Nintendo for how poor they are at preservation without hating them. I love my Switch, for instance, but it would also be nice to not have to pay £100+ for Gamecube games. (I do hate Apple though, to be fair)
@@Bobthepetferret Oh, I didn't mean that in a literal way. I suspected you didn't actually *hate* Nintendo. Perhaps by putting it in the same sentence with Apple I caused a misunderstanding. Which is unfortunate, because I really like the video, and I'm sad that I got off on the wrong foot with its creator. I'm not used to people who make videos to be so responsive to their comments.
@@Bobthepetferret I think we just have very different perspectives on internet discussion; I definitely still have that older internet mindset where people said things were good or bad, and left it at that, (or would argue about it in circles, although in good faith) often attempting to mix in a bit of humor with it. While I still think fondly of those days, (growing up experiencing that form of internet discourse) I have to remind myself that online discussion now is brimming with nuance.
@@YellowpowR As it should be. Labelling things as simply good or bad ignores the vast range of stuff in the middle that's neither. And honestly, the old trend of video reviewers yelling "this game sucks" at everything in sight got tedious fast. The problem with the binary thinking is it ignores the flawed masterpieces that are full of personality and joy, but were clearly made on a shoestring budget and so they kinda...fall apart at times. Or it elevates things that technically tick all the boxes - nice visuals, the "correct" gameplay design - while having all the personality of a wet dish rag because they're desperate to appeal to the widest audience possible. These games are both good AND bad, and both sides of this should be addressed for a fair assessment. Or, more appropriately for this video, it ignores the fact that while I think Nintendo need to sort themselves out re: preservation and fan works, they do have a solid first-party lineup that, imo, is running rings around Sony and Microsoft right now. Both things can be true, so Company Bad or Company Good simply doesn't apply.
Answer is easy You can't, well unless you are rich and are willing to pay 3-20 times of the prices of the originals plus consoles what can run those games Game industry is horrible to preserve older games Like i had problems to get jagged alliance and jagged alliance 2 work through steam There a lot of unofficial patches you need download (TRY YOUR BEST NOT TO DOWNLOAD VIRUSES) different settings you need to follow to get game up and running But even if you get it running, can you play it? In some cases you might be lucky at first try or need tweaking more Thank god GOG, you can buy older titles for reasonable prices and what is best, they already made that you can just download games from there and just play Just think about how difficult of a mess it is to get original System Shock, that DOS games same era like DOOM, you just can't get them running because you need create system where you might can emulate DOS system and you need "downgrade" your pc stats so you could play older titles Yea, there is problem that your specs are so good in fact that you can't even launch old games That is why i love GOG, game like System Shock can be played just few clicks and that's it
Ou and Steam is horrible place to buy older titles There is no integration for old games, if you buys old titles from there, good luck for surviving sleazy scalpers, hackers, pc ruining patches, blue screen or bricking You are mostly at mercy of forums Think about person who wants to play older title and buys it from steam, then they have no idea what to do, they ask community what to do, then there is chance for scalper to send virus link and they say "it is safe brah, trust me" Then they just got virus
I remember getting my 360 and being excited to play a couple games from the original Xbox only to find out only select games were made backwards compatible, and the two I picked up didn't make the cut.
And it boggles my mind why there isn't more passion to preserve old games cause gamers have shown time and time again that they will go back and replay the same game over and over because I just love it. And after a while, old systems are no longer made so god forbid your backup PS2 goes up and the games you liked aren't preserved elsewhere.
I'm on my second PS2 and it occasionally makes angry noises when I turn it on, so that is a very real fear!
And I believe the official explanation I've heard is that only a minority of users play the older games so therefore since the platform holders aren't making ALL the money, there's no point (I didn't say it was a good reason)
Great work, I can imagine this took quite a bit of time and research, not to mention editing it into a solid video. Nicely done
A whole year and two script versions!
(I am very relieved it's done)
Such an underrated video. Really enjoyed it lol
I realize they're not "modern" consoles, but a number of the unavailable games listed at the end are still available for purchase on the PS3 and/or Vita PSN stores. Those libraries are only visible via the consoles themselves (so that means you'd need to deal with the slow PS3 store to even see what's available), but a few are still legally purchasable in some form. Fatal Frame 2 and God Hand, for example, are currently available on the PS3 as "PS2 Classics" (in the US, at least).
Obviously modern ports would be ideal but, as of right now, you can still legally pick up at least a few more items on that list if you have one of those systems.
Fair point, but those stores have already been threatened with closure. Obviously, they're still around as Sony reversed their plans for now, but that does place them in a precarious position, so it didn't feel right to count them. Plus the systems aren't as readily available as the current gen, which is another factor
This was an exceptional work! Thank you so much for the dive. It's frightening how much our gaming history's landscape changes year over year, as I'm sure this video would look markedly different had it released today as opposed to February 2023, if for no other reason than because the 360 Marketplace is now gone.
It probably won't look much different to be honest, as I wasn't looking at the 360 Marketplace in the first place. The fact it's gone now is kinda why, as I started putting the video together when Sony were threatening to close the PS3 store. It felt wrong to count anything on that generation of consoles as "available" when the stores themselves were under threat!
I don't know how the closure of the 360 Marketplace affected the backwards compatibility on modern Xbox consoles though. That was my metric for most of the Xbox stuff, after all, and I only counted them if they had a modern Xbox page that specified the One/Series consoles. Because of those pages they're likely unaffected but I wouldn't be surprised if something got culled in the process.
@@Bobthepetferret I don't think it affects the "backwards compatibility" aspect, as if you own the game already, you can still play it on the newer system. It's just an availability problem in that a lot of games for sale on the 360 marketplace are not available on the Xbox One/Series stores. :(
really well put together video, good stuff
Wow, fascinating video and well done on the massive amount of research you've done. In a way the numbers you end up with are higher than I thought.
Not only are the numbers surprisingly high, they're also higher since I released the video, thanks to things like Game Boy/GBA games on Switch Online, and Ridge Racer 4 being added to PS Plus this week (as I suspected they might do)
Amazing work, thank you. I'm reading the 2013 version of this book right now and this is a great supplement.
6:58 *happy noises because World of Goo made it into the book*
minesweeper is genuinely one of my favorite games, it's always felt really timeless to me and it feels pretty historic so I feel that's why it's in the book
Yep! My feeling of "why's this in here?" is an irrational emotional one where I feel like it's not a "real" game, before I realise that's a stupid thing to think and that, yes, an iconic casual game a lot of people played (including me) is absolutely deserving of being recognised as an important game. Like you said, it's timeless
Omg why this video doesn't have more views??? best video thanks!!
I was shocked to see that this video has so few views. Incredible research and amazing presentation. As someone who is very passionate about media preservation, this was one of my favorite videos in ages.
If the Super Mario RPG remake had been announced by this video, does it seem close enough to the original to include in your opinion?
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed the video! As for Super Mario RPG, it's a grey area, so it would go in the remakes section with stuff like Shadow of the Colossus and Yakuza Kiwami 2
Gaming Jay got me here 👍
Found his channel doing research for this video. I am both impressed and scared by that guy. I considered doing what he's doing and instantly rejected the idea but, man, he's still going.
Although, thanks to his efforts, I did end up using one of his videos here because it was pretty much the only footage of that game on RUclips! Might have been Slitherlink?
the Original Arkanoid is one of the Modes in Eternal Battle
@45:20 Plastic peripherals on the sofa.
DJ Hero turntable: check
Guitar Hero guitar: check
PS2 Buzz controllers: check
Lol
I have used those buzzers exactly once
@@Bobthepetferret Coincidentally I was dusting them off only this afternoon whilst having a tidy up. Last time we played Buzz on an old PS2 our daughter was too young to read so hard for her to play along. Several years later she'll now be fine :)
thorough (what else can I say?)
15:12 oh boy, that aged POORLY
Yeah, sadly. Curious to see if they fix that again though
@@Bobthepetferret also, you made a mistake, the oregon trail from the tourist board is the 1985 version, the book specified the 1971 version
...or, play before a solar flare/cme destroys all electricity?
Today I finished tomb raider legends and it was a total blast.😎
Check out Gaming Jay.
The madlad has been working on all 1001 for 10 years now!! He's hit over 900!!
Oh I'm aware! He found this video and mentioned it in one of his videos, which I commented on to say thanks! He's also the source of the Sokoban footage in this video, as he seemed to be the only person on RUclips who had played the original version. It is impressive work that he's stuck with the project so long. I would not have been able to, so he has my respect
@@Bobthepetferret Oh wow! Thanks for the reply ^_^
I considered attempting it but just don't have that dedication lol
i invented all these games
We all together
Or just emulate.
Dang, this guy hates Nintendo and Apple.
Fun fact: you can be critical of a company like Nintendo for how poor they are at preservation without hating them. I love my Switch, for instance, but it would also be nice to not have to pay £100+ for Gamecube games.
(I do hate Apple though, to be fair)
@@Bobthepetferret Oh, I didn't mean that in a literal way. I suspected you didn't actually *hate* Nintendo. Perhaps by putting it in the same sentence with Apple I caused a misunderstanding.
Which is unfortunate, because I really like the video, and I'm sad that I got off on the wrong foot with its creator. I'm not used to people who make videos to be so responsive to their comments.
It's all good! I see a lot of binary thinking going on online and just wanted to set the record straight. Glad you enjoyed the video all the same!
@@Bobthepetferret I think we just have very different perspectives on internet discussion; I definitely still have that older internet mindset where people said things were good or bad, and left it at that, (or would argue about it in circles, although in good faith) often attempting to mix in a bit of humor with it. While I still think fondly of those days, (growing up experiencing that form of internet discourse) I have to remind myself that online discussion now is brimming with nuance.
@@YellowpowR As it should be. Labelling things as simply good or bad ignores the vast range of stuff in the middle that's neither. And honestly, the old trend of video reviewers yelling "this game sucks" at everything in sight got tedious fast.
The problem with the binary thinking is it ignores the flawed masterpieces that are full of personality and joy, but were clearly made on a shoestring budget and so they kinda...fall apart at times. Or it elevates things that technically tick all the boxes - nice visuals, the "correct" gameplay design - while having all the personality of a wet dish rag because they're desperate to appeal to the widest audience possible. These games are both good AND bad, and both sides of this should be addressed for a fair assessment.
Or, more appropriately for this video, it ignores the fact that while I think Nintendo need to sort themselves out re: preservation and fan works, they do have a solid first-party lineup that, imo, is running rings around Sony and Microsoft right now. Both things can be true, so Company Bad or Company Good simply doesn't apply.
Answer is easy
You can't, well unless you are rich and are willing to pay 3-20 times of the prices of the originals plus consoles what can run those games
Game industry is horrible to preserve older games
Like i had problems to get jagged alliance and jagged alliance 2 work through steam
There a lot of unofficial patches you need download (TRY YOUR BEST NOT TO DOWNLOAD VIRUSES)
different settings you need to follow to get game up and running
But even if you get it running, can you play it? In some cases you might be lucky at first try or need tweaking more
Thank god GOG, you can buy older titles for reasonable prices and what is best, they already made that you can just download games from there and just play
Just think about how difficult of a mess it is to get original System Shock, that DOS games same era like DOOM, you just can't get them running because you need create system where you might can emulate DOS system and you need "downgrade" your pc stats so you could play older titles
Yea, there is problem that your specs are so good in fact that you can't even launch old games
That is why i love GOG, game like System Shock can be played just few clicks and that's it
Ou and Steam is horrible place to buy older titles
There is no integration for old games, if you buys old titles from there, good luck for surviving sleazy scalpers, hackers, pc ruining patches, blue screen or bricking
You are mostly at mercy of forums
Think about person who wants to play older title and buys it from steam, then they have no idea what to do, they ask community what to do, then there is chance for scalper to send virus link and they say "it is safe brah, trust me"
Then they just got virus