My Friend, You have no idea ( or u probably do have an idea ) how helpful u were to me and the others like me, who are trying to get into bifrost for a long time, but without proper guidance, just holding ourself back and not sure what to do or how to do it. This is truely amazing stuff right here. Thank you very much!!!!
Great Tutorial, I hope you will make more videos about Bifrost. just one correction, at 25:06 Create value node doesn't gets the value type from the previous input node instead it uses the same type as the output.
Yes, you are kinda right. The output will be driven by the input nodes. So if you have one input, the Create Value nodes is created to match it. But the main point was to help people understand the types of value nodes and why something won't work.
For those who are interested (not needed to work with Bifrost): "no promotion exists" (in the error message) in this context means: Many programming languages have a feature where the datatype of some value you have can automatically change to another one, if needed. (This is usually called an "implicit conversion".) For example, if you try to add a "float2" (which has two values) to a "float3" (which has three values), it would normally not work, since the number of values doesn't match up. There's no math for this case, it can't be done. But, a "float2" _could_ automatically be "promoted" to a "float3" in this case, by just giving it a third value and setting that to 0 (so the third value doesn't do anything in the addition). If you do that, you have a "float3" now, and can add that to the existing one. If this feature exists and the language knows what to do, the addition just works, even though the two data types originally did not "match". You, as the user, don't need to do anything. If the language _can't_ do that, instead you would get an error there ("can't add the values because their types are not compatible" or something like that). The danger of such a feature is that the wrong thing might be done, silently. For example, imagine this had been a multiplication instead. Setting the third number for the "float2" -> "float3" promotion to 0 would mean that all the third values of the other "float3" end up as 0 (usually multiplying two vectors means their individual values each get multiplied together). Maybe you would have wanted them to be preserved, instead. Or maybe you didn't even realize that you only got "float2" there, and this indicates another problem somewhere before that point, which is the real source of the issue. Now, with the problem silently being "fixed" (but actually in the wrong way), in some other place in the program, things might break. And you won't know where the problem comes from. In a big program, it might be hard to find out what went wrong, because you can't find the place where things went wrong. Had the program instead just stopped at the "float2" + "float3" part instead, and given you an error, you would have seen what the issue is and could have fixed it properly. In the video, it was a "float4" and a "float3". Bifrost would have to turn the "float4"s into "float3"s, so that the data types match. But how exactly? Just drop the fourth value? Is that what the user wants? Or did they make a mistake there? So the designers of Bifrost opted for not silently doing _something_, that might be the wrong thing, and instead just give an error to you, the user, so you can investigate the issue and fix it properly. A common promotion in programming languages that is often done, though, is for example promoting a "smaller" data type to a "larger" one. An "integer" can hold fewer values than a "long integer" (but it needs less space in the computer's memory, it is smaller). But you can still add them together in a logical way - they're still both numbers of the same "kind" (whole numbers, no decimals). So, the programming language can simply promote the "integer" into a "long integer", and then both values can be added together. If the user instead had to always do that conversion manually, it's unnecessary work for them. So it's done automatically instead. With something like vectors (which have multiple values, e.g. three or four of them), it depends on the context what you might want to do if they don't match up. There's no "one size fits all" conversion possible there that will always do the right thing. So many programming languages don't try it - they just give you the error instead.
Thanks for the explanation. I don't profess to know the deeper workings of Bifrost and I'm also not a programmer. You seem to know more then me. :-) My aim in the videos is to provide some very simplistic explanation for people, and they can then go deeper if they wish too. There's some very good Bifrost resources out there now for anyone wanting to know more and go deeper.
@@ZeroConditionaltutorials I'm a computer science student (I'm just using Maya for fun mostly, with a student license), so I tried to shed some light on it without getting _too_ technical haha. I just thought it would be interesting to know for some people who come across this! It's definitely not needed to use Bifrost, you just need to know what to do when you see this message - and you explained what to do in the video!
Great Tutorial, but I as a Maya user since version 1.0 Bifrost looks like a big mess that in order to do something simple you need to plug a lot of nodes. My opinion is that unless Autodesk simplify it for artist not just technical people will not get the attention like Cinema 4d or even Houdini Procedural pipeline.
Yes I can see what you mean, but I think the key will be the UX. These types of node based workflows will always be complex but they can be made simpler and easier to use. Even when ICE was released, it took some updates before it became more accessible for artists and artists were a focus from the beginning. I think Bifrost is going through the same growing pains. imho :-)
Thank you for that! The tutorials were nice and clear. Looking forward to see more bifrost tutorials from you 👍
More to come!
My Friend, You have no idea ( or u probably do have an idea ) how helpful u were to me and the others like me, who are trying to get into bifrost for a long time, but without proper guidance, just holding ourself back and not sure what to do or how to do it. This is truely amazing stuff right here. Thank you very much!!!!
Thanks for the message. There are many Bifrost people better then me, but I hope I can help people make those early steps before then progressing.
Great Tutorial, I hope you will make more videos about Bifrost.
just one correction, at 25:06 Create value node doesn't gets the value type from the previous input node instead it uses the same type as the output.
Yes, you are kinda right. The output will be driven by the input nodes. So if you have one input, the Create Value nodes is created to match it.
But the main point was to help people understand the types of value nodes and why something won't work.
excellent, thanks!
You're welcome!
For those who are interested (not needed to work with Bifrost):
"no promotion exists" (in the error message) in this context means:
Many programming languages have a feature where the datatype of some value you have can automatically change to another one, if needed. (This is usually called an "implicit conversion".)
For example, if you try to add a "float2" (which has two values) to a "float3" (which has three values), it would normally not work, since the number of values doesn't match up. There's no math for this case, it can't be done. But, a "float2" _could_ automatically be "promoted" to a "float3" in this case, by just giving it a third value and setting that to 0 (so the third value doesn't do anything in the addition). If you do that, you have a "float3" now, and can add that to the existing one.
If this feature exists and the language knows what to do, the addition just works, even though the two data types originally did not "match". You, as the user, don't need to do anything.
If the language _can't_ do that, instead you would get an error there ("can't add the values because their types are not compatible" or something like that).
The danger of such a feature is that the wrong thing might be done, silently. For example, imagine this had been a multiplication instead. Setting the third number for the "float2" -> "float3" promotion to 0 would mean that all the third values of the other "float3" end up as 0 (usually multiplying two vectors means their individual values each get multiplied together). Maybe you would have wanted them to be preserved, instead. Or maybe you didn't even realize that you only got "float2" there, and this indicates another problem somewhere before that point, which is the real source of the issue.
Now, with the problem silently being "fixed" (but actually in the wrong way), in some other place in the program, things might break. And you won't know where the problem comes from. In a big program, it might be hard to find out what went wrong, because you can't find the place where things went wrong.
Had the program instead just stopped at the "float2" + "float3" part instead, and given you an error, you would have seen what the issue is and could have fixed it properly.
In the video, it was a "float4" and a "float3". Bifrost would have to turn the "float4"s into "float3"s, so that the data types match. But how exactly? Just drop the fourth value? Is that what the user wants? Or did they make a mistake there? So the designers of Bifrost opted for not silently doing _something_, that might be the wrong thing, and instead just give an error to you, the user, so you can investigate the issue and fix it properly.
A common promotion in programming languages that is often done, though, is for example promoting a "smaller" data type to a "larger" one. An "integer" can hold fewer values than a "long integer" (but it needs less space in the computer's memory, it is smaller). But you can still add them together in a logical way - they're still both numbers of the same "kind" (whole numbers, no decimals). So, the programming language can simply promote the "integer" into a "long integer", and then both values can be added together. If the user instead had to always do that conversion manually, it's unnecessary work for them. So it's done automatically instead.
With something like vectors (which have multiple values, e.g. three or four of them), it depends on the context what you might want to do if they don't match up. There's no "one size fits all" conversion possible there that will always do the right thing. So many programming languages don't try it - they just give you the error instead.
Thanks for the explanation.
I don't profess to know the deeper workings of Bifrost and I'm also not a programmer. You seem to know more then me. :-)
My aim in the videos is to provide some very simplistic explanation for people, and they can then go deeper if they wish too. There's some very good Bifrost resources out there now for anyone wanting to know more and go deeper.
@@ZeroConditionaltutorials I'm a computer science student (I'm just using Maya for fun mostly, with a student license), so I tried to shed some light on it without getting _too_ technical haha. I just thought it would be interesting to know for some people who come across this! It's definitely not needed to use Bifrost, you just need to know what to do when you see this message - and you explained what to do in the video!
Top
You're welcome.
Great Tutorial, but I as a Maya user since version 1.0 Bifrost looks like a big mess that in order to do something simple you need to plug a lot of nodes. My opinion is that unless Autodesk simplify it for artist not just technical people will not get the attention like Cinema 4d or even Houdini Procedural pipeline.
Yes I can see what you mean, but I think the key will be the UX. These types of node based workflows will always be complex but they can be made simpler and easier to use. Even when ICE was released, it took some updates before it became more accessible for artists and artists were a focus from the beginning. I think Bifrost is going through the same growing pains. imho :-)
I can't even get the watch point to show any information 😭.