Modern 2 stroke snowmobiles are real marvels. Direct injection, oil injection to the wrist pin, ignition mapping. They are both very powerful (180 h.p. for a 850 cc displacement) and use a lot less oil. They are able to pass modern emissions standards easily. A v4 500 cc version like the old NSR should be able to produce more than 250 h.p. in a very light package. Would love to see them back!
In 1968, which is 55 years ago, Suzuki developed a 3 cil 50cc race bike that had 16 gears and 19hp at 19000rpm. It’s top speed was 200km/h or 124m/h. It had so many gears because of it’s narrow 500rpm powerband. This is 380 hp/litre. So imagine if 2strokes had the same development as the 4strokes? It never raced, because the fim changed the rules that 50cc could only have 1cilinder and 6 speed gearboxes. You find the information on the internet. Suzuki RP68 prototype….. amazing that even now 4 strokes don’t have 380hp/litre on naturally aspirated engines.
To use your car is to drive it. To use your motorcycle is to ride it. It isn't so hard if you think about it a little bit. I can't wait for the Two-strokes either, remember the excitement of Wayne Gardners V4 NSR500 two stroke, yep that one had people walking on three legs also.
The Two Stroke Engine wasn’t environmentally unfriendly, it was the Fuel that made them dirty … also the oil you injected caused the exhaust output problems that kicked them to the curb …
We will never see it because two strokes would rule again and the manufactures of cams, valves, valve springs, timing gears, timing chains and all the other gear that goes into a valve train will not have a stake in the two stroke engine. I loved my two stroke street bikes because they were fun and fast also easy to work on and ohhhh that sound.
Really like the 2 stroke. Just need to work on the relyability issues posed by them. I rode them for years and there is little to compare to the power to wieght ratio.
@@MrKdr500 two stroke: replace piston, ring and wrist pin bearing at 20 hrs. race another 20 hrs. four stroke: rebuild entire engine or it explodes and destroys entire engine including the crank cases, aka most of the engine.
@@ahengineering1461 You're most likely right. Replacing critical parts on a two strokes isn't very hard/expensive. As long as you do it yourself and do it often that is. Neglecting to do so on an ultra high performance 4 strokes may end up like looking for a very expensive brand new or refurbished short block, or worse. Then you have to be able to do the work by yourself, or having the financial resources to pay someone else to do the work.
its not that they are decades behind, they are reaching a level of diminishing returns. a two stroke isnt magically better. its a matter of physics that 1 powerstroke in 2 is better than 1 powerstroke in 4. two strokes are more volumetrically efficient, 4 strokes are more thermally efficient. for a 250 4 stroke to make the power of a 125 2 stroke the 4 strokes internals need to be twice as strong, that goes for everything, the rods, the pistons, the crank, the main bearings and crank pins especially. much larger and stronger overall. this is becuase they receive double the impulsive force once every 4 piston strokes. thermal efficiency is a different animal and the thermal efficiency of 2 strokes is worse. because of the open exhaust port in a traditional arrangement. @@sciencemilitia1853
The technology is there for 2 Strokes to come back. With all the electronics today the bikes can make a good rider look better than he is. I think if these were to come back it would be good thing as it would require more skill to ride and transfer some of the skills back to the rider rather than from the bike itself.
@@race-ready Actually, there is a news recently that MSMA in MotoGP (Motorsport, Motorcycle, Manufacturers, Association) once again got a new proposal beside the thought of reducing down to 850cc from 1000 starting 2027. Once again 3 manufacturers have voice out an idea to also reduce the cylinders of the future engine. In case they unanimously agree. It's quite interesting as one member of the Race Direction said in the podcast recently that just like 600cc, 1000cc is likely in the verge of extinction. Despite both Aprilia & KTM already agreed with the reduce of cubic centimeters to the future engine. They are yet convinced about the changes they wanted in terms of cylinders. I bet they will talk about this in the next 3 years before finalizing it in 2027. Beside the non fossil fuels, there is also hydrogen or Hybrid that are offered on the table. But I'm hoping they wouldn't dare to pick the vacuum sound Hybrid. If they do, probably you might be right that they might comeback to 2 stroke but more evolved & modern I guess than the previous years. motorcyclesports.net/manufacturers-agree-to-reduce-motogp-engines-to-850cc/
2Stroke engines ban is another example of people acting out of stupidity and ignorance. They demonized them so much that we lost them for no real reason.
MotoGP needs to allow “diverse” engineering in order to make it more interesting. We had turbos back in the 80’s, so where are they today? With direct injection and computer technology we need to invite outside of the box engineering! Two-strokes can run cleaner than four strokes! Turbos can make big BHP out of tiny engines! Cmon FIM- make MotoGP interesting again! Allow 2 strokes and turbos! Tiny and light bikes with BIG BHP’S!
The speed record in MotoGP is 366.1km/h. The acceleration of MotoGP bikes from 0 to 100 is around 2.6seconds. The current bikes are at about the limit of human capabilities. It's an idiotic thought that making the bikes faster would make the races more interesting. It would make the races only more dangerous, without any advancement in making them more exciting.
Right, a lot of "what if's" here. Also, a lot of points given for two-strokes here also applies to racing as a whole. This video would have been much more interesting if it had delved into the nuts and bolts of current 2-stroke design and the tech that could make it happen. Likewise, visuals showing a number of 4-stroke engines while audio is focused on 2-strokes didn't help. I also found video from motorcycle gaming less than stirring. I was hoping to learn something here and was met with wishful thinking. For example, are the motorcycle factories actually working on future 2-stroke GP bikes right now? I have not heard they are.
loved the 500cc erea, with the lighter bikes the rider could do magic with the bikes. Now with havyer bikes it's more the bike who are in controll, deside the outcome
If the bikes are heavier than it is definitely more rider focused... because the rider has a heavier bike in his hands to hes now more important... use your brain.
The Rule maker need to stop mandating the type of engines ,and tyre brands fuel types and brands and detailed technical aspects of the machines, let the engineers and teams decide what they need and unlock the real potential and peak interest once again .
The Japanese pushed in the four stroke era first in the late 90's in Motocross, double the displacement for the same power output or thereabouts. What made the difference was the added torque the four stroke provided, which made them easier to ride and control all though heavier than their two stroke counter parts. I would love to see the two stroke make a comeback, way more fun to ride and cheaper to produce. That was half the problem with the four stroke was it drove the cost of the sport through the roof and pushed out a lot of talented riders due to cost. Smaller talent pool is never a good thing in sports.
I grew up watching racing in the 70s so two strokes have always been my thing but I can't see moto gp going the way. The cost to develop new engines would be enormous and unless the manufacturers have road going two strokes they want to sell I can't see anything in it for them. Moto gp also run a control ECU .How would that work on both two and four stroke bikes. It would have to be all or none and i can't see the likes of Honda, who were keen to go four stroke back in 2002 wanting to go back. Cant say it will never happen but can't see it especially in the current economic climate.
The biggest problems with two-stroke engines were the in and outlet ports. The rings were practically grinding over this ports, creating wear and tear. With injectors and outlet valves that stopped. Two-strokes have fewer mechanical parts and are easier to maintain than 4-strokes. In the end are cheaper to build, with an increased life span. That's not only valid for motor cycles but for car engines too, diesel, or petrol.
When I was young I rode raced Kawasaki triples raced formula 100 go karts and flat tracked two-stroke motorcycles and Ice Race them as well I am a two-stroke freak I would love to see this come back to the norm
I grew up on 2T motorbikes both air and liquid cooled. I miss the big bore MX bikes. If I had known they would be shelved I would never have sold any of them. My 93 KX500 was a pure beast of a bike. Sure it wasn't stock and had some internal wizardry going on but it was built for dirt drags and eventually ended up as a hill climb machine. 80 whp is nothing to sneeze at when the vehicle weighs less than 240lbs wet. I say even if the newer tech makes them more costly bring back the 2T bikes. There is something about hitting that powerband on a 2T and the bike taking off like it was just shot out of a cannon that no other motorsports engine can replicate. I am a 19 year old stuck in a 51 year old body, and would gladly pay the money to have a modern 500cc 2T MX bike or Enduro to rip around the local tracks on. If they can figure emissions out I would love to see a modern take on a RD 350, or a GT 550 roadbike. A modern 750 triple 2T bike would be amazing and can you imagine the power figures! Probably won't see any of it in my lifetime but we can always dream and hope.
There are so many problems in this video. One: the bikes not being fast enough is not a problem MotoGP has. The problem right now is the lack of competition as Ducati dominates the others like we've never seen in the series. Two: you list the simplicity and fewer moving parts as the upsides of two stroke engines. That's true until we bring direct injection and pressure charging into the picture. As far as I know, MotoGP bikes are still not direct injected, and direct injection brings a whole new level of complicity in the picture. Three: no major manufacturer spent considerable amount of money on developing two-stroke engines in the last... maybe two decades. Yes, they still manufacturer two-stroke dirtbikes, but the dirtbike engines are not expected to be cutting edge, they more or less stayed unchanged for decades. Transforming the current two-stroke engine developing knowledge into building MotoGP or F1 level of engines would be an INSANE amount of development cost. Four: the assumption of the paralel existence of a two and a four stroke competition is absurd. There can be only one top class per competition type, two competition would saturate the market and cause fraction.
Might/ May / Can /Could... That's what you think but despite more power, if you've ever riddent a 2T you'll know that there's no engine brake at all! So this is pure illusion.
A radial four cylinder two stroke is two V twins back to back. It gives zero vibration and virtually no torque vibration. All four rods are carried on one big end pin. It would need a blower but air is fed via a hollow crank and fuel via speaker coil injection or even the two stage injection used on F1 car engines.
Nice video. However, I think you are missing a few points here. A - Two Strokes engines have been branded as environmentally unfriendly for so long, it might take a while to change this perception among the general population. B - Refer to A when it comes to what the political implications are. C - Most engine manufacturers have abandoned the two strokes concept such a long time ago, it might take a while for those so willing to catch up, technologically wise. D - A two strokes engine will never be as reliable as a four strokes engine. It has to do with the piston never catching a break cooling wise, while four strokes engine pistons have twice the time to cool off. The general public prefer reliability over performance. E - Two strokes engines have a shorter power band than four strokes', which makes them more delicate to handle than a four strokes'. F - All of this being said, I'll take a two strokes to go!
About the power to weight ratio... I don't follow the ever changing rules closely. But I've heard that the manufacturers can't make a bike under a certain weight. If 2-stroke and 4-stroke were competing directly, the rule about the 4-strokes not being under a certain weight would surely have to be discarded. I believe it would improve the materials and technology across the board. Each team would probably compete with both 2 and 4-stroke engined bikes, leaving that to the rider's preference. Be interesting if Formula1 also switch to 2-stroke! Making them that bit more like super go-karts than race cars, and reducing their weight that bit more.
I've always said Moto GP open classers power plant rules should be; Maximum capacity. Maximum number of cylinders. A minimum weight. Race starts at Xpm That is all.
Nature requires diversity in the environment to be healthy and so does the race track. because not all the tracks are and conditions are the same watching the same basic machine race is boring just look at F1. Moto GP should go it the open the field to a more diverse field of engineered machines that is the only way to produce the best machines and best racing possible
I'm noticing a scary trend, hydrogen combustion engines do not emit only water. They also release toxins. The point is, a hydrogen engine isn't going to affect the climate. But it's still capable of doing a lot of damage. Especially, if someone who believed hydrogen engines release nothing but water out of their exhausts, they might stand near the exhaust "for fun" Would that be stupid overall? Yes. But maybe we could all focus on not mystifying the hydrogen engine. Overall, nice video, thank you.
It would be interesting to add a team perhaps GasGas using this tech to the grid but it wouldn't be for years. Ducati would never agree to this after years and years of development to finally be on top. Japanese manufacturers are too strapped for cash to suddenly abandon their current configuration to start a new engine development.
With the modern chassis and suspension of today's GP bikes and modern 2 stroke power there would be but a few that could handle that combination competitively. Im looking forward to the next Sheen/Roberts showdown. It would be epic!!
Bottom line is the manufactures want fans to believe the moto gp bikes are very similar to sportbikes sold in dealerships. Even if the only thing in common is general layout and displacement (number of wheels forks a shock and 4 cylinders etc) but literally NOTHING is the same or interchangable between production motorcycles and motgp ....no matter how much production bike owners imagine they might be. At least the SBK bikes are somewhat similar
How bout a V4 1000 cc 2 Stroke . It can be done not 2 mention all the Potential Modern Day Sport Bikes . Let the True Sounds of Liberty and Freedom Ring
@@race-ready they’re too far behind as far as ease of tuning & emission efficiency. They’d definitely have to run on something other than gasoline for it to work. Direct injection could help a lot though but I just don’t see them making a comeback due to all the research & development that’s went into the 4 strokes over the past 20+ years.
You are wrong in several ways: First of all, when buring hydrogen with air at high tempertures and pressures (like e.g. in an engine), the primary reaction product is water. However, due to the extreme conditions, a reaction takes place between oxygen (~20%vol of air) and nitrogen(78%vol of air), resulting in the formation of NOx, which lead to acid rain, destruction of the ozone layer and are damaging heath. Second, two stroke engines have a high power density (horespower per pound of engine), but they actually really suck in terms of efficiency: low compression ratios, exhaust gases remaining in the combustion chamber (can be mitigated by forced induction), depending on the type of fuel delivery, there might be unburnt fuel wasted into the exhaust... As aready indicated, there are solutions for some of those issues, like forced air induction and direct fuel injection, but these require turbo- or superchargers, fuel pumps, complex plumbing. And it deletes the major advantages of a two stroke engine: low weight and simplicity are out of the window as well as small packet size! Third, you mentioned the capability to modify the engines characteristics to each track. That can be done on two stroke engines, however this means essentially building an new cylinder head , maybe even rod and crankshaft, so in fact, a new engine for each track. You may consider that a plus from an engine developers point of view, but it is hardly economic. Thinking about practical issues: On a motorcycle, I would not want to be sitting over a tank of hydrogen. And as a blast from the past: there were two seasons in MotoGP, where both types on engine were allowed, so every team had enough time to follow up on the transition. So there were 500cc two stroke engines competing against 1000cc four stroke engines. The 500cc bies were more nimble on tighty, bending tracks and were able to dive under their opponents when entering tight turns, but on corner exit, the higher torque of the four stroke engines letft the 500cc in their dust due to a way wider power band. So, from my point of view, it will be very challenging to implement both engine concepts into a single class, and for most applications, I do not really see a reason to make a step backwards. That being said: there are reasons, that some very specialized types of motorbikes (dirt bikes, trail bikes...)still use two stroke engines: extremely low weight and throttle response.
I had a Suzuki RGV-250cc repliracer two stroke street bike that if leaned on hard with the right tuning could produce 80 horsepower. This was in the latter half of the 1990s. 25 years later, here in 2023, imagine what progress would have been made in 2-stroke bikes. We'd have 150hp 250cc street bikes that weigh under 300 pounds. So it's good to hear that two strokes may return!
Two stroke engines were no where near as bad with emissions as made out to be. This video shows a complete lack of the true understanding of why two strokes were pushed out.. While a two stroke could be smokey, most wise enough people used a vegetable based oil... They were also fuel efficient. Then again if you believe everything your overlords tell you, your not that wise to begin with.
KTM's had developed a direct inject engine that met CA CARB emission requirements in the 2000's,, yet was never produced for riding or racing activities. . Battery powered motorcycles likely will be the next means of powering all disciplines of riding or racing motorcycles. Ducati this season produced battery powered bike for MotoE, MotoGP like race bikes. Battery power poses a problem of lithium disposal and it's difficult for me to see OEMs except Honda or Yamaha having the money n resources to develop, make prototypes n mass produce new concept two stroke or hydrogen powered motorcycles. Battery has at least 15 years of testing n development already on them while being sold to consumers like The Zero MX/dirt bike.
Also very deadly to consider hydrogen as fuel in motorcycles especially a sport that is prone to crashing it will only bring more casualties and death than power and efficiency
correctin Hydrogen gueled engines are NOT "new technolody" It has always been simple (if a bit unsafe) during WW2 petroleum shortages in fact vehicles were overnight CONVERTED to run on hydrogeb! ANd it worked then! like 80 years ago! "new"....yeah right
You did not address the very narrow and non linear powerband characteristic of 2 strokes that caused the famous high sides in the 500cc era. Not a very user friendly motor
Put all riders on 200+ hp 2 stroke bikes, with no traction control, no computer interference. Then we will see who is the best.
I can't wait for the 2 Stroke come back!!!
You’ll be waiting a long long time then
@@macsmith6216 I'll keep waiting.
Hope they come back in all the motorcycle racing for good
Yes, the *buzz-bomb sound!*
@@macsmith6216 maybe they will comeback sooner than we think. It will take some years to come but its seems certain this time.
Modern 2 stroke snowmobiles are real marvels. Direct injection, oil injection to the wrist pin, ignition mapping. They are both very powerful (180 h.p. for a 850 cc displacement) and use a lot less oil. They are able to pass modern emissions standards easily. A v4 500 cc version like the old NSR should be able to produce more than 250 h.p. in a very light package. Would love to see them back!
In 1968, which is 55 years ago, Suzuki developed a 3 cil 50cc race bike that had 16 gears and 19hp at 19000rpm. It’s top speed was 200km/h or 124m/h. It had so many gears because of it’s narrow 500rpm powerband. This is 380 hp/litre. So imagine if 2strokes had the same development as the 4strokes? It never raced, because the fim changed the rules that 50cc could only have 1cilinder and 6 speed gearboxes. You find the information on the internet. Suzuki RP68 prototype….. amazing that even now 4 strokes don’t have 380hp/litre on naturally aspirated engines.
Bring it back please❤❤
To use your car is to drive it. To use your motorcycle is to ride it. It isn't so hard if you think about it a little bit. I can't wait for the Two-strokes either, remember the excitement of Wayne Gardners V4 NSR500 two stroke, yep that one had people walking on three legs also.
The Two Stroke Engine wasn’t environmentally unfriendly, it was the Fuel that made them dirty … also the oil you injected caused the exhaust output problems that kicked them to the curb …
Not particularly useful without the fuel and oil though, so that's a moot point.
Yeah, bring them back..
We will never see it because two strokes would rule again and the manufactures of cams, valves, valve springs, timing gears, timing chains and all the other gear that goes into a valve train will not have a stake in the two stroke engine. I loved my two stroke street bikes because they were fun and fast also easy to work on and ohhhh that sound.
1000cc 2-stroke! Bring it!!!!
Really like the 2 stroke. Just need to work on the relyability issues posed by them. I rode them for years and there is little to compare to the power to wieght ratio.
high performance 2 strokes have been more reliable than high performance 4 strokes for 2 years or more....
@@MrKdr500 two stroke: replace piston, ring and wrist pin bearing at 20 hrs. race another 20 hrs. four stroke: rebuild entire engine or it explodes and destroys entire engine including the crank cases, aka most of the engine.
The 2 strokes are a lot more reliable than 4 strokes these days. Outboards, motocross bikes, sleds, jet skis, etc. 4 strokes are decades behind.
@@ahengineering1461 You're most likely right. Replacing critical parts on a two strokes isn't very hard/expensive. As long as you do it yourself and do it often that is.
Neglecting to do so on an ultra high performance 4 strokes may end up like looking for a very expensive brand new or refurbished short block, or worse.
Then you have to be able to do the work by yourself, or having the financial resources to pay someone else to do the work.
its not that they are decades behind, they are reaching a level of diminishing returns. a two stroke isnt magically better. its a matter of physics that 1 powerstroke in 2 is better than 1 powerstroke in 4. two strokes are more volumetrically efficient, 4 strokes are more thermally efficient. for a 250 4 stroke to make the power of a 125 2 stroke the 4 strokes internals need to be twice as strong, that goes for everything, the rods, the pistons, the crank, the main bearings and crank pins especially. much larger and stronger overall. this is becuase they receive double the impulsive force once every 4 piston strokes. thermal efficiency is a different animal and the thermal efficiency of 2 strokes is worse. because of the open exhaust port in a traditional arrangement.
@@sciencemilitia1853
The technology is there for 2 Strokes to come back. With all the electronics today the bikes can make a good rider look better than he is. I think if these were to come back it would be good thing as it would require more skill to ride and transfer some of the skills back to the rider rather than from the bike itself.
Nailed it! 👌
The electronic aids will mask the evils of the two stroke engines as they do on the four strokes.
LOL, yeah, cuz you can't put that stuff on a two-stroke!
@@race-ready Actually, there is a news recently that MSMA in MotoGP (Motorsport, Motorcycle, Manufacturers, Association) once again got a new proposal beside the thought of reducing down to 850cc from 1000 starting 2027. Once again 3 manufacturers have voice out an idea to also reduce the cylinders of the future engine. In case they unanimously agree. It's quite interesting as one member of the Race Direction said in the podcast recently that just like 600cc, 1000cc is likely in the verge of extinction.
Despite both Aprilia & KTM already agreed with the reduce of cubic centimeters to the future engine. They are yet convinced about the changes they wanted in terms of cylinders. I bet they will talk about this in the next 3 years before finalizing it in 2027. Beside the non fossil fuels, there is also hydrogen or Hybrid that are offered on the table. But I'm hoping they wouldn't dare to pick the vacuum sound Hybrid.
If they do, probably you might be right that they might comeback to 2 stroke but more evolved & modern I guess than the previous years.
motorcyclesports.net/manufacturers-agree-to-reduce-motogp-engines-to-850cc/
2Stroke engines ban is another example of people acting out of stupidity and ignorance. They demonized them so much that we lost them for no real reason.
MotoGP needs to allow “diverse” engineering in order to make it more interesting. We had turbos back in the 80’s, so where are they today? With direct injection and computer technology we need to invite outside of the box engineering! Two-strokes can run cleaner than four strokes! Turbos can make big BHP out of tiny engines! Cmon FIM- make MotoGP interesting again! Allow 2 strokes and turbos! Tiny and light bikes with BIG BHP’S!
They had supercharged two strokes racing in the 30's
The 330bhp the Motogp bikes have now is plenty
No turbos ever in GP racing, Supercharger banned after WW2,
@@mattburnett4185 no not 2 strokes
The speed record in MotoGP is 366.1km/h. The acceleration of MotoGP bikes from 0 to 100 is around 2.6seconds. The current bikes are at about the limit of human capabilities. It's an idiotic thought that making the bikes faster would make the races more interesting. It would make the races only more dangerous, without any advancement in making them more exciting.
Maybe if the video described how the new 2 stroke technology worked, it might have been interesting.
Totally agree……what a useless video as is.
Right, a lot of "what if's" here. Also, a lot of points given for two-strokes here also applies to racing as a whole. This video would have been much more interesting if it had delved into the nuts and bolts of current 2-stroke design and the tech that could make it happen. Likewise, visuals showing a number of 4-stroke engines while audio is focused on 2-strokes didn't help. I also found video from motorcycle gaming less than stirring. I was hoping to learn something here and was met with wishful thinking. For example, are the motorcycle factories actually working on future 2-stroke GP bikes right now? I have not heard they are.
loved the 500cc erea, with the lighter bikes the rider could do magic with the bikes. Now with havyer bikes it's more the bike who are in controll, deside the outcome
If the bikes are heavier than it is definitely more rider focused... because the rider has a heavier bike in his hands to hes now more important... use your brain.
Two strokes all the way 👍🏻 I've got a Kr1s250 🏍️ she's a screamer 😊
I love 2 Strokes
The BEST news in a month....
Some of us have been watching gp for 50 years and know all about it thanks
More power is the least we need..366km/h is too much for the micro cirquits.
The Rule maker need to stop mandating the type of engines ,and tyre brands fuel types and brands and detailed technical aspects of the machines, let the engineers and teams decide what they need and unlock the real potential and peak interest once again .
Really hope the 2 strokes come back with limited electronics...These were men's bikes and the racing was never boring!
Yeah, but if you can't buy a road going version no one will care. And that's not very likely in the foreseeable future.
The Japanese pushed in the four stroke era first in the late 90's in Motocross, double the displacement for the same power output or thereabouts.
What made the difference was the added torque the four stroke provided, which made them easier to ride and control all though heavier than their two stroke counter parts.
I would love to see the two stroke make a comeback, way more fun to ride and cheaper to produce. That was half the problem with the four stroke was it drove the cost of the sport through the roof and pushed out a lot of talented riders due to cost.
Smaller talent pool is never a good thing in sports.
Would be fabulous but won't happen .Fact!
I grew up watching racing in the 70s so two strokes have always been my thing but I can't see moto gp going the way. The cost to develop new engines would be enormous and unless the manufacturers have road going two strokes they want to sell I can't see anything in it for them. Moto gp also run a control ECU .How would that work on both two and four stroke bikes. It would have to be all or none and i can't see the likes of Honda, who were keen to go four stroke back in 2002 wanting to go back. Cant say it will never happen but can't see it especially in the current economic climate.
❤❤❤❤ please comeback 2stroke engine😊😊😊🎉🎉🎉
The biggest problems with two-stroke engines were the in and outlet ports. The rings were practically grinding over this ports, creating wear and tear. With injectors and outlet valves that stopped. Two-strokes have fewer mechanical parts and are easier to maintain than 4-strokes.
In the end are cheaper to build, with an increased life span.
That's not only valid for motor cycles but for car engines too, diesel, or petrol.
When I was young I rode raced Kawasaki triples raced formula 100 go karts and flat tracked two-stroke motorcycles and Ice Race them as well I am a two-stroke freak I would love to see this come back to the norm
At 1:43 the rod is connected to the wrong side of the crank web the big end resides opposite to the counter weight and not on the same side. LOL
They can’t do more training, the amount of testing days are limited. Less downtime hmmmm, I remember them seizing regularly on the track and the road.
I grew up on 2T motorbikes both air and liquid cooled. I miss the big bore MX bikes. If I had known they would be shelved I would never have sold any of them. My 93 KX500 was a pure beast of a bike. Sure it wasn't stock and had some internal wizardry going on but it was built for dirt drags and eventually ended up as a hill climb machine. 80 whp is nothing to sneeze at when the vehicle weighs less than 240lbs wet.
I say even if the newer tech makes them more costly bring back the 2T bikes. There is something about hitting that powerband on a 2T and the bike taking off like it was just shot out of a cannon that no other motorsports engine can replicate. I am a 19 year old stuck in a 51 year old body, and would gladly pay the money to have a modern 500cc 2T MX bike or Enduro to rip around the local tracks on.
If they can figure emissions out I would love to see a modern take on a RD 350, or a GT 550 roadbike. A modern 750 triple 2T bike would be amazing and can you imagine the power figures! Probably won't see any of it in my lifetime but we can always dream and hope.
There are so many problems in this video.
One: the bikes not being fast enough is not a problem MotoGP has. The problem right now is the lack of competition as Ducati dominates the others like we've never seen in the series.
Two: you list the simplicity and fewer moving parts as the upsides of two stroke engines. That's true until we bring direct injection and pressure charging into the picture. As far as I know, MotoGP bikes are still not direct injected, and direct injection brings a whole new level of complicity in the picture.
Three: no major manufacturer spent considerable amount of money on developing two-stroke engines in the last... maybe two decades. Yes, they still manufacturer two-stroke dirtbikes, but the dirtbike engines are not expected to be cutting edge, they more or less stayed unchanged for decades. Transforming the current two-stroke engine developing knowledge into building MotoGP or F1 level of engines would be an INSANE amount of development cost.
Four: the assumption of the paralel existence of a two and a four stroke competition is absurd. There can be only one top class per competition type, two competition would saturate the market and cause fraction.
Might/ May / Can /Could... That's what you think but despite more power, if you've ever riddent a 2T you'll know that there's no engine brake at all! So this is pure illusion.
If that happened in MotoGp, i think we ould see the view count double overnight!
Oh yeah! 😬
Comparing a two stroke bike and rider to a four stroke is like
comparing a violin player to a DJ
A radial four cylinder two stroke is two V twins back to back. It gives zero vibration and virtually no torque vibration. All four rods are carried on one big end pin. It would need a blower but air is fed via a hollow crank and fuel via speaker coil injection or even the two stage injection used on F1 car engines.
Nice video. However, I think you are missing a few points here.
A - Two Strokes engines have been branded as environmentally unfriendly for so long, it might take a while to change this perception among the general population.
B - Refer to A when it comes to what the political implications are.
C - Most engine manufacturers have abandoned the two strokes concept such a long time ago, it might take a while for those so willing to catch up, technologically wise.
D - A two strokes engine will never be as reliable as a four strokes engine. It has to do with the piston never catching a break cooling wise, while four strokes engine pistons have twice the time to cool off. The general public prefer reliability over performance.
E - Two strokes engines have a shorter power band than four strokes', which makes them more delicate to handle than a four strokes'.
F - All of this being said, I'll take a two strokes to go!
Efficiency is more an issue than emissions 2 stroke will never go as far with as little
About the power to weight ratio... I don't follow the ever changing rules closely. But I've heard that the manufacturers can't make a bike under a certain weight. If 2-stroke and 4-stroke were competing directly, the rule about the 4-strokes not being under a certain weight would surely have to be discarded. I believe it would improve the materials and technology across the board. Each team would probably compete with both 2 and 4-stroke engined bikes, leaving that to the rider's preference.
Be interesting if Formula1 also switch to 2-stroke! Making them that bit more like super go-karts than race cars, and reducing their weight that bit more.
2-stroke rear engine car of any sort please. thanks.
I've always said Moto GP open classers power plant rules should be;
Maximum capacity.
Maximum number of cylinders.
A minimum weight.
Race starts at Xpm
That is all.
1:29 ...which produce nothing but water at the end of a combustion cycle.
Me: WRONG!!! It also produces NOx emissions as well.
Indeed! 👌
#2Stroke shoud life for ever 🙂
Bring it on
Bring back the 2 strokes beasts
Reduced mechanical failures and less maintenance? Trust me that’s not right, they need rebuilding all the time
One word .....ROTARY
I cant imagine what kind of beast 2 stroke 1000 cc with latest technology will become...
I don't think it will be that big, probably 500 or 750
pipe dream
Make it equal cc as the 4stroke
Ummmmm……yahhhh, riiiiiiiiiiight. 😂
What about wankel & liquid piston engines? Same cc & same fuel load. Same exhaust emission permissible!
Yes, I think Mick Doohan once said that VALVE ADJUSTMENT was his secret to winning all those titles with his TWO STROKE. 😂
Yeah, the throttle valve!.
Nature requires diversity in the environment to be healthy and so does the race track. because not all the tracks are and conditions are the same watching the same basic machine race is boring just look at F1. Moto GP should go it the open the field to a more diverse field of engineered machines that is the only way to produce the best machines and best racing possible
2 stroke marine Diesel engines rule the shipping world.
I'm noticing a scary trend, hydrogen combustion engines do not emit only water. They also release toxins. The point is, a hydrogen engine isn't going to affect the climate. But it's still capable of doing a lot of damage. Especially, if someone who believed hydrogen engines release nothing but water out of their exhausts, they might stand near the exhaust "for fun"
Would that be stupid overall? Yes. But maybe we could all focus on not mystifying the hydrogen engine.
Overall, nice video, thank you.
So many flaws on your assessment of two strokes. You should have fact checked your info.
Beast engine
Hope so a modern rd400 would be a blast
Brilliant
Imagine a hydrogen powered bike crashing and blowing up. The rider's career would be instantly transformed from MotoGP to Astronaut.
It’s Pie-in-the-sky discussion. MotoGP shot down the 2stroke years ago, and they ain’t coming back.
About time thank goodness some one has brains
It would be interesting to add a team perhaps GasGas using this tech to the grid but it wouldn't be for years. Ducati would never agree to this after years and years of development to finally be on top. Japanese manufacturers are too strapped for cash to suddenly abandon their current configuration to start a new engine development.
With the modern chassis and suspension of today's GP bikes and modern 2 stroke power there would be but a few that could handle that combination competitively. Im looking forward to the next Sheen/Roberts showdown. It would be epic!!
Castrol R Rules
Make sure the 2-strokes has a swing arm front suspension.
Bottom line is the manufactures want fans to believe the moto gp bikes are very similar to sportbikes sold in dealerships. Even if the only thing in common is general layout and displacement (number of wheels forks a shock and 4 cylinders etc) but literally NOTHING is the same or interchangable between production motorcycles and motgp ....no matter how much production bike owners imagine they might be. At least the SBK bikes are somewhat similar
Last 2stroke engine production in malaysia market 2017 miss that sound n smell of oil 2t smoke 😅😅
How bout a V4 1000 cc 2 Stroke . It can be done not 2 mention all the Potential Modern Day Sport Bikes . Let the True Sounds of Liberty and Freedom Ring
Lubrification and reliabilty is unfort not to be solved 😢
Can you please tell me exactly where you would store enough hydrogen on a motorcycle to run a race distance ?
I would say either in a replaceable gas tank which could be replaced during pit stops, or using its liquid form, but that would be expensive
To make it fair, same cc must be the rule. In such case, 2stroke technology will be advanced.
The gasoline 2 stroke is dead as far as motogp & superbikes
Why do you say that? 🤨
@@race-ready they’re too far behind as far as ease of tuning & emission efficiency. They’d definitely have to run on something other than gasoline for it to work. Direct injection could help a lot though but I just don’t see them making a comeback due to all the research & development that’s went into the 4 strokes over the past 20+ years.
Eu aguardando a volta dos 2 tempos as competições da MotoGP 🇧🇷
Yes please two stroke all the way 😂
In this moment there are no investiments in two strokes motors.
The two-stroke is dead. Long live the two-stroke!
Who doesn't love the crazy rush when a 2 stroke power band kicks in?
Absolutely with no 6 axis ecu cable operated t/bodys only no dara logging
Make smoke great again!
Four strokes nowadays produce just as many rpm’s but are half as reliable
I think a 750cc 2 stroke should compete with a 1100cc 4 stroke.. Moto GP would probaby want a 500cc 2T vs 1000cc 4T
i might start watching again if they go to 2 stroke and no traction acc, to much electronics not fun to watch anymore
That would be amazing!
Environmental friendly racing? It’s powerful engines burning thru the fuel.
You are wrong in several ways:
First of all, when buring hydrogen with air at high tempertures and pressures (like e.g. in an engine), the primary reaction product is water.
However, due to the extreme conditions, a reaction takes place between oxygen (~20%vol of air) and nitrogen(78%vol of air), resulting in the formation of NOx,
which lead to acid rain, destruction of the ozone layer and are damaging heath.
Second, two stroke engines have a high power density (horespower per pound of engine), but they actually really suck in terms of efficiency:
low compression ratios, exhaust gases remaining in the combustion chamber (can be mitigated by forced induction), depending on the type of fuel delivery,
there might be unburnt fuel wasted into the exhaust...
As aready indicated, there are solutions for some of those issues, like forced air induction and direct fuel injection,
but these require turbo- or superchargers, fuel pumps, complex plumbing.
And it deletes the major advantages of a two stroke engine: low weight and simplicity are out of the window as well as small packet size!
Third, you mentioned the capability to modify the engines characteristics to each track. That can be done on two stroke engines, however this means essentially building an new cylinder head , maybe even rod and crankshaft, so in fact, a new engine for each track. You may consider that a plus from an engine developers point of view, but it is hardly economic.
Thinking about practical issues: On a motorcycle, I would not want to be sitting over a tank of hydrogen.
And as a blast from the past: there were two seasons in MotoGP, where both types on engine were allowed, so every team had enough time to follow up on the transition.
So there were 500cc two stroke engines competing against 1000cc four stroke engines.
The 500cc bies were more nimble on tighty, bending tracks and were able to dive under their opponents when entering tight turns, but on corner exit, the higher torque of the four stroke engines letft the 500cc in their dust due to a way wider power band.
So, from my point of view, it will be very challenging to implement both engine concepts into a single class, and for most applications, I do not really see a reason to make a step backwards. That being said: there are reasons, that some very specialized types of motorbikes (dirt bikes, trail bikes...)still use two stroke engines: extremely low weight and throttle response.
I had a Suzuki RGV-250cc repliracer two stroke street bike that if leaned on hard with the right tuning could produce 80 horsepower. This was in the latter half of the 1990s.
25 years later, here in 2023, imagine what progress would have been made in 2-stroke bikes. We'd have 150hp 250cc street bikes that weigh under 300 pounds.
So it's good to hear that two strokes may return!
Two stroke engines were no where near as bad with emissions as made out to be. This video shows a complete lack of the true understanding of why two strokes were pushed out..
While a two stroke could be smokey, most wise enough people used a vegetable based oil...
They were also fuel efficient.
Then again if you believe everything your overlords tell you, your not that wise to begin with.
Yes definitely a clown
KTM's had developed a direct inject engine that met CA CARB emission requirements in the 2000's,, yet was never produced for riding or racing activities. . Battery powered motorcycles likely will be the next means of powering all disciplines of riding or racing motorcycles. Ducati this season produced battery powered bike for MotoE, MotoGP like race bikes. Battery power poses a problem of lithium disposal and it's difficult for me to see OEMs except Honda or Yamaha having the money n resources to develop, make prototypes n mass produce new concept two stroke or hydrogen powered motorcycles. Battery has at least 15 years of testing n development already on them while being sold to consumers like The Zero MX/dirt bike.
good analysis
KTM still produce the 300EXC road legal enduro models, very good.
Also very deadly to consider hydrogen as fuel in motorcycles especially a sport that is prone to crashing it will only bring more casualties and death than power and efficiency
Maybe with the right safety measures 🤔
Do you need an ickle quiet space and belly rub?🙄
@@mikejames4271 🤣
@@mikejames4271 me? 💔 yes please
Maybe Honda could bring back their "big bang" engine for another go?
correctin Hydrogen gueled engines are NOT "new technolody" It has always been simple (if a bit unsafe) during WW2 petroleum shortages in fact vehicles were overnight CONVERTED to run on hydrogeb! ANd it worked then! like 80 years ago! "new"....yeah right
You did not address the very narrow and non linear powerband characteristic of 2 strokes that caused the famous high sides in the 500cc era. Not a very user friendly motor
Moto gp will be using synthesized fuels in the next few years
5:14 ". . . . let me just adjust my valves . . . " ?
water , and, nitrogen oxydes
Yep.
Sou do Brasil,acho que se um dia os engenheiros eliminar o consumo de oleo ele pode voltar
Yeah, Suzuki already had a 250cc four-cylinder, fuel and oil-injected two-stroke for sale in 1989 for on-the-road use in the U.K..
It WILL NOT happen. This is just dreaming. It will go hybrid electric before 2 stroke. Again 2 stroke Moto GP will not happen.
Twice the power per cc.
Not quite.. but more, yes!