I kid you not, i lost about 6 50/50 and the only reason i havent quit is because i invested too much time. Every pull is a higher pity, and every pity is a failed 50. Just the other day, i was forced into a double 80 pity just for one character. It almost feels like i'm robbing myself in broad daylight, and it might as well be. Meanwhile, my whale friends get 5 stars in 1 10 pull, either i'm cursed or it's just like that i guess.
Sorry about the bad luck. It does happen - that was me in Fontaine (Genshin 4.0-4.8). Lost 5/8 50/50s... and lost on every archon or new character. I don't want to say "just let it slide", but what changed for me was that I basically stopped caring if I got any character and stopped chasing META. Like, why bother keeping up when when the gacha can kick you in the nuts every time you try to get a top of the line character. For example, I am convinced Hoyo just doesn't want me to have Neuvillette - lost two 50/50s, and on his first rerun I went to 170 pity (10 shy of hard pity/guarantee) and I still didn't get him. Now that he's on banner... I'm at like 82 pity and I just refuse to open my wallet again. So if I can get to the 50/50 F2P, cool. If not, I'll let him go a third time and forever. What really ruins it for me is that it's basically impossible to craft the team you actually want in a gacha when the gacha is as stingy as HSR, Genshin or ZZZ.
@@VK-CopiumLord To be fair, most of the players already have him from his free giveaway. Hoyo likely just waits until there are enough new people to worth to make a Ratio rerun.
Honestly, Seele isn't really that good anymore. I mean, there are many characters who are better than her. And there isn't really a reason to push the literal very first limited character of 1.0 when we're soon in the 3.X versions.
@@tovarishchfeixiaoyeah but plenty of players don't care about meta and just want to pull the ppl they like most. Hoyo pushes meta and it shows in the rerun order, which leaves some ppl - a minority too small to be competitive with the revenue from pushing meta - unable to pull who they want, which I can sympathize with.
9:28-Money, the downside from hoyo's perspective is money. They've practically fully optimized gacha to be as addictive and lucrative as possible, what with their 50/50 system (I despise it so much, way to not reward players for their time) and what not. Adding lower star characters of actual value means less of an incentive to pull for newer characters if you're not super deep into the game mechanics. Making it 4* makes it seem to a more casual player that they've gotten something of value even if realistically as far as the gacha is concerned they're fairly common. Hoyo games place most of their value on 5 stars, relics and eidolons, light cones + equivalents which all have additional elements of gacha attached. Psychologically it seems like a different system but mechanically it's the same as the others, Hoyo are just worse about it
My issue with Hoyo’s gacha system is that every banner is limited, there’s no such thing as getting lucky with a random spook. Combine that with the terrible rates and the 50/50 and it’s simply not a very rewarding system to pull on.
@devika2545 better than Hoyo games goes without saying. Nikke is probably the most prominent modern example but they’re also on the extreme end as far as gacha generosity goes.
@devika2545Arknights for example, has almost 300 characters, and only 30 of them are limited(some of them due to being tied to events or collabs). Most other gacha games don’t do what Hoyo does, and you most likely can still get very powerful characters even if you lose the banner character because of that. Their gacha rates are obviously a lot more generous than Hoyo games, but i can’t fault them too much because they did put more effort in making “detailed” 3d models for them.
Who tf will use 1,2,3 star units? There already are a bunch of abandoned characters that literally no one (excluding waifu gamers) plays. Everything else though, I completely agree with
Same with fgo, people only use the 5-10 that got lucky with broken kits since the devs don't have any idea what is good or bad up to this day. Fgo even has a problem of unusable 4/5* units, if anything hsr is doing way better than fgo with easier to obtain character and all being usable at least
I played World Flipper and one of the best characters was Owlbert, who was a 2 star unit. Sha Suzu was an incredibly OP 3 star unit. They give reliable easy-to-access support for key mechanics and fill roles that there aren't 4 or 5 stars to get or are very difficult to get because they're limited or low rate
Meanwhile another Eden before it fk’d itself over with stellar awakening system, managed to let a neat trick with character personality system to equip Grastas that give party share damage bonuses on trash units and leave them in the back line so the units at the front who share the personality of those trash units would get free damage sources and moar. Granted, that game’s grasta system is trash in general when you get in-depth to it.
Its crazy how zzz new game added new animations & custom kits for units like Ellen, yanagi, billy & miyabi but the turn based game star rail cant give us new animations. Even tho enemie kafka has gernade atks & spider mindcontrol atks.
Honestly one thing I feel people don't realize that 4 star aren't as accessible as people think they are. Like sure if you roll every banner you might probably end up having all of them but if you specifically roll certain units you are somewhat screwed. Like I didn't had Tingyun as a Day 1 player until Feixiao banner and most people treat her as a given. I still don't have e2 Gallagher so I have to use lynx or Natasha as debuff heavy sustain. Also sometimes you don't like certain character so they should have alternative. Like I don't like Ruan mei but I have all 3 break units so I am always using a whatever teammate with them so having a cheaper alternative like March/Moze to Topaz is nice. I am pretty sure back on Kafka release people were complaining about having to use Sampo with her since they don't like him.
Definitely something I've thought about a few times since, as it stands, the characters being listed as 4 or 5* doesn't actually mean anything when there're only 2 types; common* or Rare. Some people argued that the units would just be used as fodder for XP and, well, isn't that also like 90% of the use case for the garbage 3 star weapons we get drowned in? But then there's rare, niche cases where the 3* is actually good enough and can work. Having options, particularly as playable options, wouldn't be a bad thing for the player.
Good points all around. I would agree with basically all of it, and would add my two cents 1. "Stop caring" I hate telling people "stop caring", but what I really do is stop caring whether I have top of the line units. But that works against e.g. Hoyo, because now I'm not going to spend for the new DPS. Why bother, when my spending cannot guarantee that character? Neuvillette has evaded me for a third time (fine, I'm at 82 pity and have two weeks, I may still get him if I win my 50/50), but what I'm not going to do is buy 80 more wishes, which only gets me to 162 pity, for $130 CAD only to have then buy 20 more wishes ($30 CAD) to guarantee him. I can make peace with a gacha being luck based, but what I would change is that I would make someone's money go further. If you're buying the biggest bundle, in Canada that cost $130, it should be a guaranteed character (at E1) and their Light Cone (S1). It feels really stingy that dropping the price of a full blown AAA cannot even guarantee you either the Light Cone or the Character, let alone both. It's why WuWa's weapon banners are so good: 80 wishes = guaranteed. There's no 50/50, it's yours. It's so much easier to plan and budget for that. That doesn't fix the second issue though... 2. Reruns or lack thereof... I skipped e.g. Wriothesley back in 4.1 because I was like "he'll rerun before version 5.0 for sure" and I figured I would pick him up then. Well, just watched the 5.3 live stream and he's still not rerunning but Clorinde is and Arlecchino, both of which released after him. In HSR it's Ruan Mei... I love break teams but f**k me it doesn't look like she will rerun and by the time she reruns, it's going to 5.2 and we'll just a power-creep on Ruan Mei... or summons will be the new META and it won't matter... it makes team-planning and building impossible. In ZZZ, it's Yanagi, I know she just ran, but I got Lighter instead and I wasn't going to drop ~$500 CAD to guarantee both, so I spent on just Lighter. This false/planned scarcity is super-predatory. You don't know when the character will rerun, so you're encouraged to spend to get them and their light cone/weapon/W Engine when they arrive because "you'll miss out" otherwise. But when that scarcity is matched with gacha (luck-based draws) it's scummy, because now you really have to go all out or risk losing them forever or having a sub-optimal build. If you're not going to rerun a character for 1 year, just put them on the standard banner, Hoyo, or have a Chronicled wish every patch/every other patch so we can actually plan for it. And I say all this because I think it's actually better business. If character outfits cost $20 CAD, I have to think hard about whether i want it. If they cost $5 CAD, I'd just buy them if I liked it even a little. Similarly, if it was easier to plan when someone was running/rerunning, I could plan it out. I would easily spend more wisely. The problem with the gacha as it stands now, is that it's predatory/adversarial. You interests do not line up with Hoyo's... and they could.
This is *exactly* how I feel. The entire reason I don't spend money on Mihoyo games is *because* my money wouldn't go remotely far enough to justify the purchase. If it went farther, I'd 100% buy something. Making something cheaper can have the effect of increased profit because more people will buy it. If people perceive a worthwhile sale, they are significantly more likely to buy the product-that's how non-gacha microtransaction-based games make so much money. They create deals that make the customer feels as though they've gotten something of great value. They 'sort of' have this with the Initial Top-Up, but it's not what I'd call remotely enough of a discount to be a draw. The $30 top-up has the best returns and gets you... 24.75 pulls. Yeah that is nowhere near enough for *$30*. That's not even 1 dollar per pull (which given the $1 top-up is... 3/4 of 1 pull... yeah...). I can only assume whales spend enough E6S5ing every character etc. with the 50/50 fails that they've decided it isn't worth the trade-off of more customers with less individual returns and better reception.
Totally agree. Maybe they wouldn't pull in as much from people with unlimited disposable income, but I feel like they'd make up for it from ppl who consider spending, or have spent before but become frustrated with how far the investment _doesn't_ go (me), because the chance of perceivably wasting more carefully considered spending on losing a 50/50 or not hitting pity overcomes the desire to even make the attempt after a point. And they'd have a much more satisfied player base, which I deeply feel _any_ game company should seriously care about.
Pretty much, I only buy monthly subs in gacha games otherwise I feel stupid spending to get one character meanwhile I can get 2 AAA games with the current price with that same amount of money or atleast 6 indie games. 💀
1:30 - I think Fate GO is a crazy example. Let me explain. I started playing FGO in 2017/18 and it is absolutely crazy, how you can get three and four star characters, and those characters will carry you the FU* OUT. Which made me really happy. Because i love Emiya (Archer), and he is a 4 star. And also Cu Chulainn (Lancer - 3 star i think). And boi... have i invested hard on them and never had a problem like "Oh, i can't finish this new astronomically difficulty event with my favorite characters." No! I could! And that is the thrill i miss the most in hoyo games. Hoyo has too much paywall in the way for me to make my Arlan remotely viable. I can't be creative with F2P characters unless i drop E6 supports like Robin (Which will deal 60% of the damage herself). Ngl, HSR is an amazing game, i genuinely like the story and all. But in gameplay terms, i think it sucks so much compared to other gachas. Heck, even Epic Seven is absurdly amazing and fun. I even entered the competitive one time and the game allowed me to be super creative with my builds to farm some ranks through the low-effort whales.
Sooo agree with this. HSR is Awesome, and i want to love it. But I can't play any extra content with my favorite character teams only. Makes the entire point of the extra content moot for me. Sure i could put together many of the teams required to clear the content, but those aren't the characters i like (well, except Firefly). HSR right now, feels more like a game you play because you like the system than the game itself. But i mean it's still pretty early in the game's life so I'm trying to give it time. Maybe i'll even get a Seele rerun (yes i know she's not relevant in the current Meta but she's my Fav Quantum DPS and i didn't start playing the game until after her last rerun).
@@akaidono Yes! I feel the same. I also have this thought on the back of my head that says: "Okay, the game is fairly new, maybe Hoyo do have some good plans for the future which they are implementing little by little." But, one thing that might help, is voicing our concerns in the End-of-Patch surveys. I'm pretty sure if enough players comment about the same issues, they might change in near-future patches. At least i believe they will.
Fgo has garbage and good servants on all rarities, Xufu is better tham a lof of 5*, Holmes is worse than a lot of 1* Cu cullain is really weak btw, he is only worth for main quest boss fights and CQs, so you only really get to use him once or twice a month for most of the year and for the uses he has ypu are better off just using the sup list and can skip the challenge with free revives the game give you, only really being helpful in FES events. No reason to use him over other f2p options on repeatable content.
@@GS_CCC Even FGO's worst gold servants are better and more useful to someone without any good servants, in Hoyo games, if the 5 star you pulled is barely usable, sticking to the 4 stars is a much better option. As for Cu, you are mad tweaking my guy, you say "he is only worth for main quest boss fights and CQs" as if that isn't literally almost the entire game? FGO's gameplay is either that or multi wave stages that can be cleared with AoE NP servants. He has better survivability than most characters and because his copies are so easy to get, he can do good NP damage which goes well with his good enough NP gain. And what are even "FES events"?? No such thing with that name exists in FGO.
@thegamerfe8751 no? If you don't ignore event shops then 99.9% is farming nodes, if you actually use your AP than even more You also have 3 daily nodes on ordeal on JP so 3 times you would use another type of servant. FES events, Like gilfest, nerofest, morganfest. They have multiple hard CQs, so servants like him get some real use there. And no someone like holmes won't ever really be good to have even for someone without good servants because free stuff is better, you have xufu for free, habetrot for free and the sup list to pick a LV 120 np5 ssr like summer ibuki or to clear main quest with a servant that is OP there for free. The main quest is already extremely easy with multiple free full team revives and sup list to carry anyone even without any golden servant with ease.
Disagree, I'd rather have them make more 4 stars and 5 stars, then them developing another tyoe of unit that they will look at once and then never care again. In hoyo gamed every unit has it's own community and everyone basically fights that hoyo should give their units more attention. Adding another unit to that pile that will probably never be looked at again because it's irrelevant it's just foul for those players who like these characters. Imo, instead hoyo should especially for hsr, make more 4 star characters. We had like four 4 stars in 2.x and I'm already counting march, which was just a new form. And to top that, they should make 4 stars a lot accessible, by granting every player the ability to get every 4 star character once in like the herta shop so that new and older players can get thise 4 stars they rly want quicker
They're already pretty accessible though. You literally can get 1 guaranteed for every 10 pulls, and sometimes even get 2 4stars in a 10pulls. It's just your luck if you didn't get someone, or you just barely had used any pulls for that banner to begin with. Even as an F2P, you can easily have every 4star unit.
I'd go a step further, even. They shouldn't release any more 4 star characters into the gacha pool at all. Release 4 star units as events and let us bring them all the way to E6 that way, like Hunt March 7th. Getting at least one pull back for every 10 pulls you spend is more valuable than getting a character that you're probably putting straight on the bench anyway once your account is at a certain point, or you're going to the second they release a 5 star version of the character. Plus, it's mathematically easier to get a 5 star character at E0S0 than it is to get the 4 star version of the archetype to E6, which is what you'd need to do to make the 4 star ALMOST as good as the 5 star is at E0. It gives new players a good unit to play with, players who don't like certain 5 stars a viable alternative without having to hope that the 4 star is on a banner for a character that they want to pull on and that they have enough luck to get enough copies of the 4 star to make them viable, and it maintains the veteran player's free pull rebate. It's the best solution.
I mean why specifically low star(1,2,3)? If they want to "test the water" they can just make it a 4 star no? Or if you want a budget version of a 5 star then just make it a 4 star, i see no issue with Moze/M7 being budget Topaz or Gallagher being budget Lingsha (tho each have cases where they are arguably better). Like Hoyo quite literally did this already with giving us HMC enabling Super Break so later on they can make Fugue. Expanding niches are good, i agree with that but why had to be 1,2,3 stars, just make them 4 stars, be a dumb down version of a 5 star. All the points you said are great but there is no need for 1,2,3 stars, if anything just keep making those "dumb down" 4 stars, they have their own relevancy even when a 5 star that is better is released. Also 4:55 those exist, its Sampo, Guinaifen and Serval those are basically the "low cost DoT support" cuz all have specific interactions with their element DoT in their kit. Also also, speaking of FGO, most 123 star servants that sees any uses are because they can a) kill themselves/others(Arash, Chen Gong or Taunters) b)early game design being absolutely stupid(Cu Lancer,Hans) and rarely if ever someone is actually used for their unique qualities(Asclepius,Xu Fu,etc) the rest are memes or outclassed by others of the same category or by a 4 star welfare. And in FGO you can hyper invest in lowcost with Fou and Grails so the different between 123 and 4 is indifferent to none. Rarity in FGO is really just for who to be 5 stars and the rest, i dont really see an issue in clumping "the rest" into 4 stars like Hoyo did
Dude, that's just saying that there are good 1,2 and 3 star servants that are used a lot in FGO but with extra steps, you thought you were pointing out the exceptions when you were just pointing out the qualities of the characters. And "early game design being absolutely stupid" is such a Genshin thing to say, there are still 1 and 3 star characters being released to this day that are good like Nobukatsu, Theseus and that Japanese sniper lady.
The idea is basically to make a character which would not have fancy/costly animation, it would be characters that are simple, and lower budget than 4*.
@@thegamerfe8751every low cost dps in FGO are outclassed the moment you got any 4 or 5 star There are like 5 actual good low cost dps in FGO while the rest are bottom of all jokes FGO give out materials so it doesnt feel as bad to waste on low cost dps And early game design absolutely affect viability of FGO servants,why tf hasnt anyone got a PFA as good as Cu lancer?Because that skill is broken as shit and devs knew that so they wont making it again, early design of FGO are wack as fuck with servants having horrendous or absolutely broken kits/stats Also like in FGO,you can force everything to be viable bc you can hyper invest with gold fous/grails/card enhancements FGO had like hundreds of Servants so even a niche in FGO can be a sizeable ammount so Nobukatsu only buffing 3 servants is still good enough,like imagine Star Rail but a support said "you can only buff Firefly". Also Nobukatsu most common use is still that he can just off himself
I dont think the rarities are a problem. Its just they are releasing more 5* units that do a lot, every chance they get and since the content in the game is tailored to those characters then there is this "need" to pull them and the powercreep becomes even more evident. This coupled with the awful wish system where if you lose a 50/50 you just dont really get nothing and all farming and all the time and money spent just goes down the drain. Imo more character should be added to the standard banner specially the chracters that even though are not as powerful now it still could be useful for some players even if just to get a character from a archetype that they dont have yet. And also add more 4* units for niche/underfocused playstyles. For example, if you lose the 50/50 in the limited banner you should be able to choose something from the standard pool and units like Seele, Jing Yuan, Silver Wolf and others they arent particulary meta right now but can help players try something new or just clearing some of the content and doesnt feel like too much of a loss when you lose a 50/50 while also allowing more versatility and diversity in teamcomps Its crazy to me that Hoyoverse prefers double/triple banners over adding characters to the standard banner, i know its for the money but still, we are not even in 3.0 and there are already double banners and we might be going for triple in a few patches. Just put the some characters in the standard and let the playes choose some character when we lose the 50/50, it could even incetivize us more to pool the standard banner
@@minuteman21 - HP inflation isn't the problem, every game has that, the problem is the game itself - They already doing it by rerun *Meta characters* sooner instead of "old beloved" characters because Meta is more Beloved than Old 🙄
Most people only use 1 2 and 3 stars as exp fodder. Something that doesn't exist in hoyo games. No point to them not just being 4 stars and costly because of how detailed the animations are in hoyo games. Would also affect gacha rates. Would actually like to see some notable side characters as playable though.
i personally do not agree with this at all. my main problem with most gachas are how needlessly bloated the character rosters are and how it’s extremely blatant that characters are made to sell first and foremost. i don’t get dopamine from pulling characters as “units.” i desperately care about who they are, not just their looks, i want them to have a story that sticks with me. considering 4 stars already struggle with this enough in star rail, i don’t think we need even more characters just for the sake of it that will be completely irrelevant. us having a limited roster is a good thing for a game like this in my opinion, because it makes each new character that much more impactful. it makes it easy to never forget the roster, who came out each patch. in other words, they have meaning, purpose. i don’t want random niches sold to me, there’s not really a point to it.
@MeliariMelody It'll all come down to differing opinions, but personally I feel the 4*s struggling with it is a direct result of hoyo trying to make the 5* seem more appealing. If there's lower rarities to do that instead, then imo the 4* will have more room to be important. Appreciate your thoughts regardless!
but like, half of the low rarity servants of fgo have better story than any hsr character. that's a hoyo problem, that prefers to do a monkey event than giving character development
@@yaaa-kunwell they have at least a pre-established backgrounds due to most of them are based on real life history figures or legends lol, it would be weird if they don’t have any backstory at all.
As an FGO player its the main reason i still play, i still remember how amazing 4th anni was when we got broken AF low star characters like Jason, Chen, and Charlotte 2 of which i still use either for farming or a panic button (my Charlotte always clutches that clean up)
I feel like its still possible for hyv to add 3 star characters like you suggested through the already existing enemies. Sort of like the units in aetherium wars but playable. And they already have pretty good animation so that solves the whole quality standard thing.
It's so sad especially since so many gacha have done it better. The standard and limited system is so weird? most gacha games give you multiple gacha's, one for each archetype, imagine how cool it would be if there was a preservation banner, a nihility banner and a destruction banner. Then they could get round the new limited character issue by giving something like a 10 times probability boost for said character in the month after the character is released. It just makes the experience better, and you don't have to wait months or even years for a new limited character to be released so you can finally put a decent team together.
In regards to 1*, 2*, and 3* characters for more support, Hoyo manages their games like the CCP manages the chinese economy. They force the demand (endgame meta) and offer the product for it (meta characters). Adding character rarities below 4* would not make them loose money, but it would give costumers a decision and I suppose they cannot allow that.
Yeah not having a guaranteed limited unit at the first rotation is crazy. When I started HSR and my friend told me about the pulling system I was pissed
They changed the weapon banner so only one fate point is needed to guarantee the weapon instead of two. Still not a very good idea to pull on it though in most cases for a developing account
Just make more 4 viable star units, and create a selector system that allows us to pull specific units and increase their rates by double or triple on the banner. Using 4 stars as a test or a downgrade accessible option in lieu for 5 stars is a good system in the context of a gacha game. If they were easier to acquire and cheaper to raise compared to now, I think most complaints would be solved Also, not every 4 star is a direct downgrade from their 5 star counterpart. Hunt March has a completely unique kit that allows her to fill in for Ruan Mei in break teams and Topaz in FUA without actually having a similar kit to either one. Moze is a fair example of a 4 star Topaz. Gallagher might be 4 star Lingsha, but she was released AFTER. If anything, she's a copy of his kit with more things added on to make her perform better
That sounds a bit much. People ask for stuff all the time. They just give us everything we want. Im sure plenty would love for us to be able to guarantee all sub stats and main stats on relics all the time. ...yeah then there is no point playing the game. But in regards to making more strong 4 stars, there is a big problem that you gotta keep in mind. The better the 4 stars, the less incentive we have to pull on 5 stars. And those are the bread makers. How many times did you hear people skipped Lingsha because Gallagher was good enough? People were right; Lingsha is great but Galli is more than good enough. Skip. Hell I main Feixiao. Did I pull Topaz on her re-run since its best in slot for her? Nope, and many didnt. Why? Moze and/or March 7th is more than good enough. Hell, many are upset Fugue is barely a side grade to HMC who is free for all of us. They have to be careful on how good they make these 4 stars. And hey, I aint complaining. I get to save resources, and they lose cash. I dont feel bad for Hoyo one bit. But if I were in there shoes, no. I wouldnt focus on stronger 4 stars. Pela, Galli, Tingyun, Moze, even QQ all are capable of handling END GAME content. Even my Sampo to this day handles end game content. Good for us, but...idk if 4 star quality should be there highest priority right now. I am down for more diversity in the game, and they can do that through a combination of both 4 stars and 5 stars. But 5 stars should always be there priority. Most arent pulling on banners for 4 stars unless you are either new or in a very comfortable point in the game. Just my perspective
@@GodofGoblins Sorry but this is a hoyoshill take. The four star acquisition is clearly a problem and they should fix it. My solution is well within what Mihoyo would be willing to do. Meta isn't the only thing that drives sales either.
@@Dhooparty well duh, there are many aspects to making money. hoyoverse is a greedy company; do not align me with those apologist shills. my goodness. lmao but no, 4 star quality isnt there issue. if people want to get excited for the game, flashy 5 stars, new game modes and more activities should be there priority. If they release another gallagher tier character....wow. crazy. pinch me, im dreaming. who cares? we have plenty of solid 4 stars already,. if they want to make more, cool. Im down. That shouldnt be there priority though. Hell, Nikke constantly releases content fresh and new and interesting. ZZZ I hear is popping off lately. And you want....4 stars. lmao, come on man. Criticize them harder. Its freakin hoyo. Cool, I guess make another moze or pela. Thanks. ANYWAYS, how about better game modes and more diverse strong characters? If we are pulling on a banner for 4 stars, they screwed up hard. Just keeping it real.
@@GodofGoblins You keep saying that 4 stars shouldn't be the priority but that literally changes nothing, they are literally prioritizing 5 stars anyway, and they've also continued adding new gamemodes as well. UD is incredibly mid though. Also, moving the goalpost to talk about other issues is not the point. I could criticize them for not putting other aspects in the game, and at no point did I say that they shouldn't upgrade the game experience. I came on this video to talk about the content of the video obviously. I can want 4 stars and also want those other things lol. The entire community pulls on 5 stars anyway, they should make the 4 stars better too so that we're incentivized to play more characters and not feel like we're getting useless trash in our pulls.
@Dhooparty yeah it shouldn't. It takes time and resources to make 4 stars. If a new strong 4 star impresses you, cool. That doesn't excite me, and I'm f2p end game. I'd rather they focus on the many other aspects of the game that need work and improvements. Take that time that would develop another 4 star, into making stronger 5 stars (so people stop complaining they ain't strong enough upgrades), better events (pics of garbage cans buddy, come on) better story telling, etc. If 4 stars are what you wanna focus on, cool. Sure, let's make another moze so I don't gotta pull topaz. I ain't complaining. But when I criticize hoyo, I wanna see them actually do something impacfful and meaningful. Stronger 4 stars just means 5 stars are less impacfful or less incentive to pull them. Neat I guess? Idk, they can do better. MUCH better. Don't care about a Misha 2.0 or an even better galli. Just my perspective
I just want more units in the game in general, it really feels like they release them so slowly. 1 new banner at a time, and 1 rerun banner at a time, lasting for nearly an entire month and no overlap. For a strategy game with team building, there really isn't a lot of unique team building going on.
@@mr.protagonist5639 I agree there needs to be more reruns as well, and on a more fair schedule. I'm still waiting on boothill. But I still think that there are not enough characters in the game to begin with. If there were more units you wouldn't even need to wait for reruns that much, because there'd be another similar unit that fills the same role. Right now there aren't many 5* units that do the same thing except for like, the hypercarry support niche. Everyone else is sorta one-of-a-kind which sounds good on paper but it really limits team building options.
they release 4 stars slowly but 5 stars too quick but even then, units are so reliant on specific comps they are hardly used elsewhere which is a huge problem imo.
I've never fully invested myself into a gacha game until Genshin back in 2020, so I never knew how 1 - 3 star units worked in other gachas. I always thought of them as just placeholders for higher rarity units you'd get once you started investing time or money into the game, and that you'd need whale levels of investment to bring a 1 star into end game content and still clear while getting all of the rewards.
While the solution that doesn’t involve a complete rework of their design would probably be to add 4*s a lot more frequently, and make them actually playable (which to be fair has been improving). I do really think they should add some of these NPCs. I loved the example you gave on Jeht because she is honestly one of my favorite characters in the game and has been relegated to NPC jail to never be spoken of again.
Yes, only having 4 and 5 stars feel very weird but I don't think it's the biggest problem here. In FGO, 1 to 4 stars characters have very unique playstyles, even more unique than many of the 5 stars characters. Thing is in Hsr, 4 stars don't really do anything unique like at all, the moment a 4* char do something new you'll guaranteed to have a 5* version of them doing the same thing but better soon after. This means all the different unique and interesting comps are lock behind a paywall. You can still run the f2p comp but endgames are certainly not being balanced around them but their "better" versions. I do think to Hoyo, they only care about the 5* since they make money, 4* just being there to pretend like you have a free option to play. In the long run it won't be good if they keep things like this though.
That's the idea of the video though! If 4* units are more valuable because there's rarities tiers below them to fill out the "does x but worse than the 5*", then they can be designed with more unique kits.
Where are the 5 star “this character’s gimmick but better” counterparts of March 7th(Hunt), Moze, Asta, Lynx, Xueyi, Sushang, Misha, and Qingque exactly??? You people literally just say things 😂
I like the idea of having more characters to fill out niches but idk about using that to make beloved NPCs playable. Part of why I like NPCs in these games is the idea that you don't have to be playable to matter. It makes the world feel smaller if everyone important is playable. Also, if characters like Siobhan or Jeht become playable, it makes it more likely for them to be a disappointment in gameplay which would suck.
They won't, since those count as development budget, and having 3D, good-looking, 1-3 star characters will psychologically make 4-5 stars look cheap even if they don't. While it certainly isn't difficult to make cheap-looking low tier characters to fill the role, having an impression of user-created screenshots of cheap-looking characters floating around internet certainly isn't good for monetisation. Most games get away with it by pumping out a lot of low-end contents to create variety, but that only works for games that stories develop around one player and massive amounts of other characters (such as FGO, Granblue Fantasy or Alchemy Stars). And for this, Hoyo's weapon system was born for a reason, to get around gacha scrap issue while still incentivise players to pull more. The actual "usable" pull you get is only one per 10th pull and weapon scraps that do virtually nothing. This implementation also works with stories that are in much smaller scale (keep in mind that Astral Express members are below 10). Having low-end character varieties certainly will not work with HSR's story development, unless they decide to tilt it into that direction. What I instead really want to see from HSR is the way to have standard kits to make the game fully playable right at the gate without premium pulls, and make gacha scraps meaningful.
I'm shocked I'm not the only one saying this but I have more luck lately in other gachas I play like Gundam Battle Operation 2, Transformers Earth Wars, even Zenless Zone Zero lately with the latest update to 1.4 but Honkai Star Rail is like not giving me a break, I can't even clear endgame content without certain characters I need for DPS and Buff mainly. I do the pulls even the 10 pulls and I kid you not, I get nothing but Light Cones not even good ones just horrid ones and Dupe characters who I already have the Eidolons maxed out on, I'm a F2P and it's getting more and more broken, I don't have Sunday for god's sake no matter how many pulls I did and saved Jades.
I must respectfully disagree, but what they should do is make more viable 4 star units and have 1-2 new banners per patch but they should both last the entire patch ALONG WITH one of those "3-ish rerun simultaneously" banners like in i believe patch 2.4 or 2.5, but have that last the entire patch too (or only have one 3 rerun per half of the patch to make it easier to get any of the reruns), the logic behind this is it will give players less FOMO if they are not rushed in getting characters and due to how more reruns will come more often then if you miss a rerun you won't half to wait nearly as long for them to come by again, this seems like the most win-win to me, also HoYo could perhaps increase the rates of 4 stars too
I think its a good thing they're making 4 star versions of 5 stars it makes it a lot easier for low spenders/f2p to focus on getting other units. Im glad i skipped out on pulling topaz and got moze instead for my feixiao team because i was able to get Robin instead of having to use a scuffed ass team with bronya.
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Its an interesting idea, but for HSR (I haven’t played enough of the other hoyo games to speak for them) this would just be a bandaid fix for the issues caused by the banner system. If previous featured units went onto the standard banner after some time (like other gachas), then there would be less fomo on missing character and would allow great opportunities to build for different teams. The re-reruns and feature banners make it difficult to build teams you want let alone get support characters for the teams/characters you already have (i.e we have firefly rerun coming but we’d still have to wait for a ruan mei rerun to make the best of firefly)
what would be interesting is having those "Beloved npc's" be add-ons like relic slots on a pre-existing 4 or 5 star character that adds a small effect or boosts abilities and effects. having an HP bot that adds for 1 turn on a CD or some criteria, as an example, would instantly make Blade viable without breaking him entirely.
I just think you would end up with a bunch of unused characters, people tend to skip over these 3 stars once they have an upgrade never picking the lower rarity up again. Now if they had a Gacha system that levels up a 3-Star to a 4-Star (Atleast) or 5-Star in quality with meaningful Eidolons that change the playstyle or give them a huge powerspike etc
Your section take there is actually really interesting, I think something like that would fit in pretty well even without a lower rarity system - like imagine a 5* preservation march, there's tons they could do there to make her viable
There are many issues in Starrail that feel like they are issues because Genshin was a success so they were copied directly from Genshin. Lack of common fodder characters is kinda one of these. Genshin stands out from other gacha before it by being a game first and formost, and doesn't have lower-rarity characters because every character is a unique, special character with a huge amount of design put into them, with a flexible enough combat system and easy enough progression that you just make it work. You may not have a character designed for burning, but as long as you have a pyro and a dendro, you can still run a burning team of some sort. Starrail has the same slow pace of characters (albeit slightly faster) but much more restrictive teambuilding. If you don't have someone who does followup attacks, you cannot run a FuA team. And the characters don't feel as unique and special anyway because they keep getting powercrept or irrelevant. They don't even have birthday mail. What happened to the birthday mail, Hoyo? You have a main character named after a date, but she doesn't celebrate a birthday? Another note: I don't think 5 rarity tiers are needed. Just a 3* variant would work. See: FE Heroes, which technically has 1 and 2 star units, but they haven't been seem since launch. Though you can also upgrade the characters to higher rarity and they also can be directly foddered for other value so that's a kinda weird comparison.
@@archiefsale629yeah but how many have there been? Gallagher, hunt March, HMC and Moze? And Moze is still generally worse than March unless you can get his Eidolons.
4:52 There have been two 5 star selectors throughout HSR's history, including one that's going on right now. All people have to do is log in and play the events. These selectors are on top of the 300 pull guaranteed 5 star selector. Why does there need to a be 3 star action advance when you get Bronya for free just by playing the game for a little bit. If you wanted to, you could have an E2 Bronya right now. HSR is actually quite generous. I'm not even trying to shill for the company right now, but I have mixed feelings about your take. There does need to be more 4 stars and hopefully that will come in time. But once again, this is a Honkai game. For the people who haven't played Honkai Impact 3rd, most of the available characters (valkaryies) are 5 stars (S rank). There are a number of 4 stars (A ranks, and a few Bs), but the game encourages you to E6 (SSS rank) them, and then farm their Augment cores (there's no HSR equivalent but it gives them stat/ability boosts that make them competitive with some of the lesser 5 stars). My point is that, unlike genshin which is open world and very casual, Honkai is more intense and battle focused so they are less likely to push out new and viable four stars unless they are meant to support the rate up 5 star, (eg: Moze, M7 hunt, HMC, etc). If you don't like it, play the game in a way that makes you happy (no META chasing), or play a different game. If you don't like where Hoyo is going with HSR, show them with your wallet.
I think the biggest issue right now is the relic system, more specifically the amount of relic exp required to level up relics. Compared with ZZZ it feels like I need twice as much relic exp items to max out relics which feels especially painful when paired with an RNG system with such soul sucking confirmation bias. Honestly going to make a big point about this in the survey because being able to spend less resources to level up relics would make the RNG feel so much better and I can even do spread upgrading to reduce risk of bad rolls.
I think the reason is mostly that making "filler units" when everything is in full 3D is a lot more resource intensive for the devs, like you still have to make a character model and a lot of animations for a 2* unit, it's just that the 5* will look cooler. In comparison a gacha where a 2* character is just a few pngs and voicelines can add them a lot easier. I do think they could solve this somewhat by giving us playable enemies(?) similar to how they worked in the Aetherium Wars event. Like they already have attacks and animations built in, might as well use them, but Hoyo won't even let us have playable characters before they come to the good side so I doubt it'll happen
the difference between hoyo games and other gachas is that hoyo games make every character feel like a character, not a tool. adding more characters means more resources to be spread across the characters. also, when you noted the rerun issues, hoyo already isnt good at managing their existing characters. now imagine them making more 💀
@ ok i think i wrote it a little wrong and i see your point. but also think of the last time you saw someone from belobog or mondstat. hoyo cant manage their preexisting characters and bring them into the story. you mentioned how there are fanbases for certain npcs. imagine now youre in version 7.X and its been years since you meaningfully saw jeht or any character like that.
@@armadiyooThat's the majority of characters anyway. Outside of fluff festival events, most of the old characters might as well not exist anymore anyway.
@@armadiyoo their are definitely plenty throw away character. Like as a Boothill fan, he doesn't really get more characterization than most random character in other gacha games. Also hoyo have habit of teasing interesting idea of character but never further developing on it for years
Also while I might not fully agree with idea of adding 1-3 stars, one thing i have noticed due to short perma pool compared to other games is that I feel almost nothing in these games when I get 4 star even for first time. Even standard 5 stars just make usually feel nothing for most part. Like only thing that matter in the banner is rate up unit. I dont get why old units arent added to perma, honkai impact already does that and make even older units even farmable And thats with some of my favorite units being low rarity units. Was a Kaeya main in Genshin (used glitter thing to get c6), Serval is my second favorite character in HSR after Welt
I want a 1 star unit that negates elemental immunities at C6 in Genshin. That's it. Heck, it doesn't even need a vision for elemental resonance. Extremely squishy regardless of stats added. Basically can only do the pokemon move splash until C6, which it will negate elemental immunity.
My idea was no more standard banner. Gray warps leave after the beginner banner and get turned into yellow warps. 100 pity for a guaranteed limited 5 star. No fails. Starts to ramp up odds at 80. Still 0.6% It has a seperate tally that has no pity. 1% chance at a standard banner character OR light cone the whole way up. Doesn't consume pity. That way, you most likely get something interesting along the way. More then anything, that work being twisted into a loss and being told "just a little more but hurry, the banners almost done, if only you had a way to quickly get warps *wink*" is super scummy. Always will be. This is coming from someone who is on a 4 win streak btw. Still won't forget that feeling.
great idea that will never be applied to the game, if arlan is a 4 star how do you think they will release a character with a lower rarity than him, if LIMITED 5 STARS are considered bad after just 1 huge version how can they even think to release worse version of those character. IMO FGO is the worst comparison to do with the rarity system because hsr doesn't have may way to play the game in a strategical way, we have archetypes and play style that aren't and the only thing that matters in hoyogames are numbers, FGO is a way more complex game at its foundation and it makes so that low star servant are really valuable because of their cost in certain circumstances. Boss in hsr are just hp sponges with nearly to no gimmick (except for aventurine that's a good fight the first 3 times you do it 👍) while in fgo they are really gimmicky and engaging to fight.
Truth be told, I have in every team, 1 active 4 star. They aren't just fodders or spot fillers, they contribute significantly to the fluidity of entire team works. M8, Gallagher, Pela, even Moze. While I lament the lack of 4 stars units, to Hoyo's saving grace, apart from Misha as far as I can remember, the rest of the 4 stars post 2.0 are good.
Honestly speaking i understand the concern and point but. the problem is that these weaker 1*-3* unit are so abysmally bad in comparison to their premium versions that people do not really use them or would prefer to get the 5* units to make the team work. FFBE WOTV does this their SR and Rare versions are just there as a very specific niche or one specific game mode focused on their rarity. you don't see them being used in almost anything now. Granblue Fantasy understood that this will barely even matters anymore that they relegated to having SR on their events but not all the time and now for special events they give SSR. and Rare characters have stopped production except for when you want to the lower rarity version of a character as a skin. and they simply made these old SR and R characters be in the same rarity as the premium ones and made them actually usable instead of being downright abysmal despite being usable Girls Frontline iirc really did handle well on how to make even their 1*-3* units to the point that they still have uses but only a few of them mostly because of the simple job they do and not the complexity they provide compared to 4* and higher rarity but looking at GFL2 they seem to follow the new pattern of 4* and 5* only. Arknights is another where their lower rarity works but it would require one very specific and niche team to make them work or budget team and proper knowledge about the stage by watching someone instead of making it work yourself. The higher rarity just make them smoother to do than with lower rarity units. in a sense they are pretty good. FGO now many of their 4* event characters already does what you need and sure the 3* and lower rarity might let you play into other teams but sometimes they are so obnoxiously limited in what they can do you'd prefer just facerolling with your strongest them rather than playing a team composition that is good to that level. the only time using 3* and lower rarity work is if you really know what you're doing and abusing some mechanics on a specific stage and would you really drown large amount of resources for one lower rarity unit just to be able to do or cheese one stage? no that's ridiculously bad unless you're really stuck at that stage and can't progress. but like I said if you have a strong team. just make them stronger and facetank it that way or borrow your friends unit. this is my experience after retuning. but before around early 2019 or such their older units indeed helps you a lot. now they still do but not to some extent that they used to do Unknown knights also knows this and 3* and lower rarity units are just honorary characters that even if you max them they are not useful for what they do. they are only useful because of their class affinity that makes a team work or not. they are really slow though like probably slower than HSR so sometimes you just ran out of things to do Battlecats has their niche lower rarity units and it works for them as you explained but that often results into difficult fights and lots of retries that in the end you better off just skipping a certain hard difficulty unless you got the right Uber units or higher for it and just do something else where your Ubers can help you get farther. Same Case in AFK arena. some lower rarity exist just to be linked to their higher rarity units to put them above their maximum level until you get enough copies of them. idk about AFK journey Azur Lane you would rarely use anything short of a higher rarity unit and just faceroll the right team of SR and SSR as far as you can each of these game I mentioned have a way to provide for the players. WOTV gives you new player bonus to let you pick even newer characters (at least 3-4months old above) at maximum lvl to get started Granblue just spams you with a lot of rolls so you get enough character to make up with what you have until as you grow they just bury you again with more free stuffs and options (right now they literally gave you a free pick to get a limited Grand unit which are only available to roll at least once a month for most of the time that was released up to july 2024) Girls frontline gives you the option to farm them and not just roll them and you can filter out your gacha to certain types of characters only Arknights actually lets you stock up overtime to have enough resources to get one specific unit old or new. old units. old events the only limits is the amount of energy you can use per day. FGO despite lacking pity and having the fame for not giving much during special days. they actually have a lot of option to farm for premium resources to do gacha (just really tedious sometimes) even more than Hoyoverse games And here's one thing I noticed. despite FGO 1% SSR rate their chance to get the featured unit is actually 0.8% Looking at Granblue. their SSR gacha rates can be 3% or 6% but their featured unit rates is at best 0.2% sometimes 0.3% but they compensate this by giving you more chances to roll by giving you so many ways to farm them and outright give them to you to the point that reaching 300 rolls for a spark to get any unit featured in the banner basically doable in just a few months and in doing that 300 you get a lot more other units that are sometimes among the list you want aside from the main target. And now look at HSR and Genshin. 0.6% for a 5* and you have to fight the 50/50 which practically makes it 0.3% rate. sure you have shorter pity but if you're limited to only being able to farm just enough for 70-80 rolls in each patch. you're practically worse than FGO. Even worse if you're a whale since you have to buy all that you cannot farm further. and that's another thing HSR or Genshin lacks. better option for whales unlike FGO, WOTV, and Granblue with their specific whale banner. some see it as something bad. I don't. Even as a f2p i'd understand why they do that. its retention and giving them a seemingly fair exchange for their expenses rather than just flat out gambling and more gambling. Unknown Knights is literally a greedy game IMO. but at least they let you farm some units to maximize them even though it takes time so you only had to save up for specific units and they are for some reason generous with their currency for gacha (but not during collabs) which tbh makes it pretty balance for the players. Battlecats is so so its a slow grind like arknights but at least you feel rewarded by some banners and when they return guaranteed and such. not to mention their rates are better in some cases specially with how their feature works basically allowing you only specific uber units on certain banners AFK arena didn't really bother buts its literally afk and after some time you can suddenly pull the banners a lot again. didn;t check their rates and all but I get hefty amounts of currency for rolling Azur Lane is just like Girls frontline which is really neat. Now I kinda understand as to why HSR/Genshin does this. tbf their game seems to require more work so them being a bit more scummy might be to compensate regarding creating new characters etc etc. but still there is a glaring flaw and is unseen to the common eyes which is their lack of diversity in option for their gacha and lacking ways to provide for the players. having characters that provides like 20-40% of that their 5* counterpart can do will just increase peoples game time and stress on this game And I say this as someone who doesn't have aventurine and still uses Gallagher and Lynx or sometimes no sustain and is a 1.0 player
Disagree with this one, unlike fgo HSR doesn't have cost limits. So why would anyone want to deploy a character lower than a 4 star when 4 stars are pretty mid in this game in the first place?
No this game doesn't need more useless characters, cause all the traces are BRICKED, so a time limit to get them, what we need is buff of those 4 star, but something HOYO refuse to do, cause of their experience with Genshi Impact, they rather make new Characters to sell then upgrade old characters. come on a 1.5-2.5k E6 character says enough. A E1/E2 that cost at minimum 200 and maximum 650 Dollars, we aren't even counting the Lightcon. sorry to say, and people consider that system normal. and I know FGO it cost 500 bucks if you are unlucky to hit pity. but the chances I had FGO give me with 1/2 30 SQ pulls has happen often enough, in half year time I hit 3 Pitty, but I also pulled very cheap instant Pulls often enough in FGO, in 3 months time HSR aside from the FIRST 50/50 Win, I only lost all remaining 50/50 that is 4/5 lost. that almost always hitting hard pitty, sorry to say this HSR game is way more expensive then FGO.
I'm glad that I started out FGO JP before hoyo games cuz the taught me how to handle FOMO. Even though FGO has absurd hard pity at 300 pull, It's very rare for me to reach 10 multis to get banner servants plus they even gave us separate chances to get double-sided sparks, gold orbs and rainbow orbs that further increase the likelihood to get banner character. What is suprising about FGO is that I rarely got spooked with permanent servant after all these years playing FGO JP since launch until recently pulling for Luohi. Some people think that the existence of pity system in gacha game is a must but that is not entirely true. Pity system is the reason why game devs found a reason to lower the average drop rate for banner characters and making multiple rng that it seems like they dont want to give characters to the player like reaching certain numbers of pulls for soft pity cuz the base chance is already low just to get 50% chance for banner character. when you include the rng for character builds, if the build is trash, all character you pulled will be trash thus pulling for upcoming character that later will be trash cuz bad rng build and there goes endless cycles. Gilgamesh is still op since launch and I still rely on him in Challenge quests ngl.
Oh btw, this is just a hot take from me. I have a gut feeling that hoyo buff/nerf endgame content was based on the p2w side but not f2p. Or they just averaged out based on the best f2p account to the highest capability of p2w players. I felt like they just don't want giving players the chance to get all rewards from endgame content anymore.
While i do enjoy the idea of making characters like Siobhan or Woolsey 3 star units, i also really dont enjoy gacha games that have a billion units just for the sake of making them do 1 small thing or just for the sake of filling out the roster. Id rather them take whatever little time theyd save by not making special 3 star NPCs into creating more special 4 star units, but for some reason theyre not doing that either.
I personally don't mind the number of lower rarity units in the game. Five Stars are far more resilient in comparison to Four Stars, and that feels very intentional. If I brought up a 3 star unit and had it all maxed out just to play around with the DoT archetype, only for it to get TIngyun'd to death again and again, I would regret putting any effort into leveling that 3 star. As for the overall balance of the game, yeah, we could certainly use more support for our existing archetypes, but that only became a thing as of 2.X. The game is still being fleshed out, so it's okay for it to take time.
i am not a fan of 3* units or otherise but i agree that we need diversity. in a meta where a character/whole archetype becomes worthless if they dont double its damage every 2 patches it sucks to see so many archetypes fall off,DOT used to be busted but then became useless by 2.3~ ish because the DPS check got too much for it with literally 0 upgrades since black swan. hypercarry used to be the main meta but then we didnt get anything since sparkle (Sunday doesn't fully count cause he's a future investment for summoning meta. him buffing hypercarries isnt as good as his main use,and it wasn't intentional.) and etc. so many characters and archetypes fell off simply because hoyo didnt wanna push them or sell them beyond their debut patch(sparkle). i wish they'd make more units and archetypes usable instead of the current system of "have the current archetype we're selling or have very expensive vertical investment to clear endgame". i just wish they'd equally pay more attention to most archetypes instead of spoon-feeding 1 or 2 archetypes every patch cycle. (expect follow up or break to fall off during 3.X if not both of the becoming worthless by 3.2 or something like that)
I’m not sure if we’d specifically need 1-3 star characters- I think HSR has this problem really bad because they barely even release 4* characters (4* preservation character that isn’t March when??). I mostly play Genshin but at least there we *sometimes* get good 4*s and old 4*s are pretty strong. I mostly look at HSR from the outside but my impression is that the older 5*s are getting powercrept beyond belief, much less the 4*s. At this point I doubt they’d even want to bother with making good 4* characters
A 5* in star rail gets powercrept just a few patches later I might be mistaken but Boothill got powercrept literally one patch after he released The game is super meta heavy and powercreeps the characters constantly
HI3 has the B rank valkyrie system and remembering how bad it was to pull for them during even the first few years of that game, i dont think Hoyo can handle the thought of "losing money"
This system would be terrible without an artifact sorting system, it's already hard enough sorting the inventory as it is. We'd also need to buff the inventory space for artifacts to 3k-6k on all games.
my theory is why dont release more 4 star or lower tier because creating them takes almost the same money as a 5 star, making animations, voice acting, conceptualizing the character. and they dont get money from it. and its not only on Hoyo, GFL2, Wuwa and others doesnt have 4 star below characters too
No. Ive been thinking something similar. We need more "free" characters and more standard banner characters. We dont need 3, 2, and 1 stars since theyd do the same thing as 4 stars and would need to be noticably weaker. But more role variety would be great, like qq=cheap dan heng il, gallagher=cheap lingsha, etc. A cocolia in a nostalgia event would be nice. Id spend on the spot, who wouldnt
So on one hand I get filling slots that may be lacking with 1-3 stars HOWEVER that seems very much like a temporary thing because lord knows roster size is already bloated. Genshin has 80 characters in 4 years. They have more characters in 4 years than warframe has made frames in 10. Not to mention in other games with 3 stars I've played they often get abandoned super early. Once you have 1 semi functioning team of 4 stars or 5 stars the 3 stars become irrelevant and just roster fodder. What we need is more selectors or more consistent permanent event 4 stars. DoT is terrible not because they refuse to give it support but because Nihility inherently has a problem of being too broad of an "archtype" it has FOUR SUB ROLES IN A SINGLE ARCH TYPE. Hoyo cannot keep up. They need to make DoT it's own archtype like Summons are now under remembrance.
i disagree on adding lower rarities, we only need more 4* & more free units. Since not all 4* are equal in strength they're already equivalent to different rarities below SSR Servants. I'll take kit bloat over unit bloat, & those same servants still need bloated QAB supports, also the whole reason there are some many lower rarities/consolation prizes is because there's no pity(& no the sad excuse of a pity they added doesn't count). For those who don't know imagine pulling 330 times before guaranteeing the equivalent of a featured 5*.
The problem with 1-3* is how tf are they gonna be relevant when hp inflation doubled every patch even people with multiple 5* are still complaining about it
Ideas off character falling off does not mean anything in the longer the game, the are going to fall off but the can just add and Dot Support and Bring it back to S Tear.
@@aliadel1475 it does though. You can add whatever support and if a support buffs a unit, it buffs a unit with 5 times multiplier even more. Like you can add whatever support to buff Serval or physical TB but whatever she does , another dps with higher multiplier would end up benefiting more and same has started to apply to 5 stars
I said the same thing about the ether characters for ZZZ no reason for us to only have that many way too few of them. The next ether character will either be anomaly (which are by design OP which will be a must pull) or a stun character which really those characters suck.
4 stars are almost useless in HSR, anything lower than that will actually be useless even in the story battles. FGO and other gacha game works because the main endgame of those games usually doesn’t revolve around clearing fast. Like we don’t care for how low Cu chulain damage is, at least you can’t die with him.
This whole video boils down to "just make dozens of extra characters bro" Do you not see the glaring obstacle with this proposition? Hoyo games have exceptional quality compared to most gacha games, it's not easy to pump out characters left and right, all of them need voice acting and quests tied to them, they're all relevant in the story, not to mention the effort that goes into designing and animating their gameplay. Compared to things like FGO or similar 2D gacha games which take less than a fraction of effort, time and budget to develop and maintain, Hoyo simply can't afford to output so much so fast (and they already are). All this is without even considering the second major issue, which is profit potentials, but other comments have talked about this already.
So, tell me if I understand. You are saying that there should be some 1*, 2* and 3* characters with kits that do simple things, such as only action advance (basically a downgrade to Bronya, Sparkle and Sunday), but you are also complaining that Moze/March are downgrades to Topaz?
I'm saying that if we had 1-3* units, then the 4* characters would inherently have "more value". If more value is attached to a rarity tier, then there's more of a reason for people be interested in it, and therefore more effort could be put into designing their kits. We probably wouldn't see the discussions about "dang I wish my favorite character was a 5* instead of a 4*", because a 4* unit is almost just as valuable when you have lower rarities to prop them up.
@@fl2ur Thanks for your reply. In that case, it's only the perspective of the player what is changing (by comparing 4* with lower quality characters), not the inherit value of the 4* characters nor the usefulness of their kits. I think that could decieve players into thinking that Arlan or Hook are just better because they're 4* characters instead of focusing on what they actually do. Also, what happens if someone's favorite character ends up releasing as a 1*? I'd prefer the chance to have them at least as a 4*. I agree that the HSR team is not doing a good job with the 4* characters, they should release more of them and make them at least useful, but I don't think that creating lower quality characters would help. Good video anyway, it's always good to propose ideas and think about solutions.
@@iNovak_ñ Perspective change is part of it, but its an important part imo. If the only options are 4 and 5*s like how it is now, no one really has a reason to care about them. Someone in another comment said it's basically like our only options are "common(4)" and "rare(5)", and I agree with that. If the 4* units are considered common units, why should hoyo spend time designing them and making their kits unique? Instead, if there were other rarity tiers to make the perspective shift that they do actually have value, then like I said originally there would be a reason to give them a more unique kit rather than how they act now where they're replacements for higher rarities. All in all, it's just opinions - realistically they don't need to do a system thats more complicated like this because like you said, yeah they can just release more 4*, and that could potentially solve the problem too(if you already have moze being a replacement topaz then the next one would have to do something different). I just hope there's some change in the future.
@@fl2ur 4* being the lowest rarity does not inherently mean that they are common. Something is common if you can get it anywhere in large quantities. Getting a specific 4* eidolons is actually uncommon, you need to wait for a rate up and even then it's not guaranteed, so I think that part isn't a good argument. Also, I think that the change in perspective would only afffect players, not the development process. If Hoyo adds lower rarity units, those units would have kits and animations way way worse than the 4*, but most likely the 4* characters would remain the same, hopefully more like the newest ones. I really want some change, just like you, but I don't think lower quality units is the correct approach. I think the value of a unit is in their kit, not in their rarity. March or Moze aren't as good as Topaz, but are enough, which isn't the same for most other 4*. The change must come from making their kits more useful, instead of their rarity more special.
I'd rather just want them to release more 4 stars that fill in niches then 1-3 star characters with garbage scaling that become irrelevant as soon as a 4-5 star comes out that fill in the niche like why the fuck would i waste resources on a character that becomes useless as soon as a higher rarity character comes out and does their job better.
I disagree. 1-3 star units won't work in the current hoyo games, because they cannot be made without seriously compromising the quality standards that hoyo characters are known for. Unlike FGO where characters are just JPGs and 2d sprite animations, hoyo characters are 3d with complex designs, animations and rigging. The vast majority of the cost of making these characters are in these things, and the overall cost difference to hoyo is more or less the same whether 4 or 5 star. I imagine 1-3 star characters would cost about the same as well. Given this, what incentive is there for them to make these 1-3 star characters, when they cost more or less the same as higher rarities, and don't bring in the money? Of course, they can use the NPC models, but we all know just how awful those are. Also, I'd hate for such awesome characters like Siobhan and Jeht to be introduced as 1 stars. 4 stars at least. Anything less would be a waste.
People would complain to no end if HSR was like fgo where some 5* are unusable garbage for 99% of the content and it had dozens of filler low stars that won't ever be of any use. Like they just gave on JP server a free 4* for christmas thas has no real role to be used on, people already complain about weak characters imagine non-functional ones. At least its hard to make that on HSR since you have basic atks without the need of rng, fgo is just skills and "ultimates" for the most part.
@@XenonDante Not really because basically all gacha almost always tend to try and converge towards the same point on a graph maximizing profits. The difference is ultimately pedantic. Where Genshin introduced pity to most gachas, it also made for some of the most anxiety inducing pulling experiences known to mankind thanks to the 50/50. Where Genshin removed many low rarity units, it also removed concepts like "fodder" entirely. Gachas that give meaningful upgrades to their systems with little to no caveats (like actually needing to spend a billion impulse pulls to see meaningful improvement from the "upgrades") over other gachas are exceedingly rare. The only one that comes to mind is... wuthering waves relative to its Hoyo counterparts I think? And even WuWa's straight statistical advantages can be twisted in ways I'm not familiar enough with the game to know (like making E0S0 limited 5* basically worthless for example)
I disagree strongly, the one thing i find, that make many gacha games unfriendly towards newer player is to many characters. 1-3stars are just filler, unless u have a system that lets you power up those units up to a 4star strength. I think the biggest problem in HSR with is niches is, that we have to many dead units. It feels like the 1.0 4stars and some 5stars werent design for a certain niche, but just a general RPG role. Asta & Bronya = speed, Tingyun = Batterie, sampo, serval = a Dot etc. They feel extremly unfocus compared to newer units like Moze and March Hunt. Rather than them giving us more Junk units i would rather like a new system that Unlock a new Major trace and some minor Traces for 1.0 character (like a universal enhancement) that tries to give the character more focus. Like let Asta Passive also buff Break efficency by 5% per stack (max 25%) making her like a weaker Ruan Mei, Let Hanya buff Crit based on her speed and make her even more a mini Sparkle, give sushang super break or toughness ignore and make her Boothill lite. Make Himeko even more of an Break unit. Let natashas E6 make sense by giving all units a Hot + cleanse for every x Dmg she does with a normal attacks. . . This would make older character more relevent again, specially if you are missing a certain character for a archetype or you have no 5star for the current endgame buff. And since everything needs a money reason they could but the enhancement Material behind the monthly pass. Like F2P can enhance like 2 4*star per pass and/or 0,5 5*star per pass und if you pay premium you get double the amount of Materials. This would also allow them to slowly enhance units later units by being more flexible when deciding when which character can get their enhancement unlocked. Like for example in 3.4 only 1.0 characters can be enhanced. And in 4.0 they allow all of the rest 1.x characters to be enhanced.
I mean your right about diversity but completely wrong where the diversity comes from, the ability to fully invest in abilities or change them to focus on a certain play style instead of the one dimension characters we have now is where you get more depth.
absolutely they should be releasing 1, 2, 3, and 4 star characters. Make them useable. Hell do the Arknights and make it possibly to beat everything with them (even if barely). 6 and 5 stars will be your cash cows sure, but the rest are still nice to have. And if you had one 4 star that did each archetype of a character you'd make FTP players much happier.
i've watched the video in full, and this was a great video! i really liked how you provided your points and this had made your perspective very understandable personally though, i don't really agree with most of this take... but it doesn't mean that i don't understand where you're coming from!
Adding more rarities is a waste of resources from both the company and the player, why build easily replaceable characters? I already don't even build the 4* because their design is super limited, I genuinely loved Hanya and Xueyi but they just don't offer much compared to their peers. Plus They're already somewhat fixing the archetypes with some of the newer characters bringing back old units (Luocha and Blade potentially being 2 of em). Getting a 5* is just a matter of luck, my HSR account is blessed af meanwhile my ZZZ account, I've had to go to pity 3x as much.
It’s funny. I quit fgo because of how shit the gatcha was. However, one thing I keep coming back to when I find hsr lacking is fgo. Your friends list mattered. A very very large amount of the “free” servants were very very good with even 1 star servants being best in slot for certain strategies. It never felt like you needed to pull on the gatcha to complete challenge quests you just needed to be able to build a team of free units that could accomplish it if your account was missing meta 5 stars.
There is zero reason to have 1-3 star. No one wants them but in some games those characters can actually make a team. The best game by far that does this is Epic 7 you can do content with 3 star characters
an issue i see is that making these 1, 2 and 3 star characters would require a lot of resources, even if their animations are simple, you still need to account for kit design, balancing, voicing, the character stories, splash art etc, they'd pour all these resources into characters that dont directly generate even a single penny in revenue for them. their impact would be limited to behind the scenes, which would make it hard to judge how much exactly they're benefitting the game and, more importantly, how much money they're generating for mhy. its true they'd make the game better, but mhy has never cared about if something would make a game better, they've always put the main priority on revenue and hitting revenue goals, be it in the short or the long term
No, no brother. The solution is not adding more characters even worse than existing ones. We really don't need junk units that don't even have a place in the story and are just filler...
BRUH THIS IS LEGIT WHY I DROPPED GENSHIN Game got frustrating. Got to sumeru and the dogs make it were I can't use zhongli cause corrosion. Then the new raiden relics are good but I legit need kokomi or water units to make bloom for it. But my team 1 is zhongli hu tao so it also needs water supports. So I legit gotta wait forever for a water healer unit for the team I wanna make of bloom raiden. And no I don't wanna use barbra for months dawg. I just started playing zzz instead it's more fun. Even star rail got annoying with the scummy re-runs lately, hp inflation n constant power creep. Couldn't get robin & fexiou at the same time, so now i gotta wait months for a re-run.
5* characters are the money makers. The rest of them are just filler, or chances to experiment with mechanics before the 5*'s come out. See Xueyi and Break.
I genuinely don't think it's a good idea although I understand where you're coming from, I believe that it's better for both the players and hoyoverse to have fully fledged characters with good animations etc, even if they're 4 stars. I would love siobhan and jett to be playable, even if they weren't 5*, but I can't see a world where having 3* characters would be good, exept if they powercrept 5* even more
Ngl, I see your point but Hoyo's mainstream Gacha games are 3D, and unlike FGO, Arknights, and such, they cant outsource on someone do artwork and they can just code whatever skill and put VFX and SFX and call it complete, they have their own teams on making characters and concept art of the content will be, checking on the animations making sure they dont break while interacting from its environment, I haven't played the Gacha games you have listed but the closes thing similar to that I have played is Azur Lane, but regardless this is my own opinion.
Not to be mean, but this is one of the worst idea I ever heard. Having unit you actually like to be a complete unusable trash is just cruel. Theres enough 4 star in this position already, and nobody enjoy it. Imagine having playable Jeht but she cares less usability than Dori. Also 3 star weapon could be used as leveling materals. What about characters? What you gonna feed your Scots into Feixiao or E120 Scott will forever sit in your character menu?
I kid you not, i lost about 6 50/50 and the only reason i havent quit is because i invested too much time. Every pull is a higher pity, and every pity is a failed 50. Just the other day, i was forced into a double 80 pity just for one character. It almost feels like i'm robbing myself in broad daylight, and it might as well be. Meanwhile, my whale friends get 5 stars in 1 10 pull, either i'm cursed or it's just like that i guess.
Sorry about the bad luck. It does happen - that was me in Fontaine (Genshin 4.0-4.8). Lost 5/8 50/50s... and lost on every archon or new character. I don't want to say "just let it slide", but what changed for me was that I basically stopped caring if I got any character and stopped chasing META.
Like, why bother keeping up when when the gacha can kick you in the nuts every time you try to get a top of the line character. For example, I am convinced Hoyo just doesn't want me to have Neuvillette - lost two 50/50s, and on his first rerun I went to 170 pity (10 shy of hard pity/guarantee) and I still didn't get him. Now that he's on banner... I'm at like 82 pity and I just refuse to open my wallet again. So if I can get to the 50/50 F2P, cool. If not, I'll let him go a third time and forever.
What really ruins it for me is that it's basically impossible to craft the team you actually want in a gacha when the gacha is as stingy as HSR, Genshin or ZZZ.
I got e0s1 firefly from 350 tickets... I understand your pain
If you wanna quit, go play Limbus Company and see which is better.
@@basty_gaming5750 Just searched that up and it seems cool ngl. Reminds me of reverse 1999
@@DESTROYEROFGOD5 One thing is that you can buy units (I.D.s) after a time, SSRs included, and with no dupes to get
reminder that seele hasnt been on a banner since 1.4
Reminder that Ratio(1.6) still hasnt rerun and doesnt look like he will anytime soon
@@VK-CopiumLord To be fair, most of the players already have him from his free giveaway. Hoyo likely just waits until there are enough new people to worth to make a Ratio rerun.
Honestly, Seele isn't really that good anymore. I mean, there are many characters who are better than her. And there isn't really a reason to push the literal very first limited character of 1.0 when we're soon in the 3.X versions.
@@tovarishchfeixiaoyeah but plenty of players don't care about meta and just want to pull the ppl they like most. Hoyo pushes meta and it shows in the rerun order, which leaves some ppl - a minority too small to be competitive with the revenue from pushing meta - unable to pull who they want, which I can sympathize with.
@@0v_x0 agreed. I'd EASILY drop 500 USD on a Seele banner right now regardless of how good or bad she is in the current meta.
9:28-Money, the downside from hoyo's perspective is money. They've practically fully optimized gacha to be as addictive and lucrative as possible, what with their 50/50 system (I despise it so much, way to not reward players for their time) and what not. Adding lower star characters of actual value means less of an incentive to pull for newer characters if you're not super deep into the game mechanics. Making it 4* makes it seem to a more casual player that they've gotten something of value even if realistically as far as the gacha is concerned they're fairly common. Hoyo games place most of their value on 5 stars, relics and eidolons, light cones + equivalents which all have additional elements of gacha attached. Psychologically it seems like a different system but mechanically it's the same as the others, Hoyo are just worse about it
My issue with Hoyo’s gacha system is that every banner is limited, there’s no such thing as getting lucky with a random spook. Combine that with the terrible rates and the 50/50 and it’s simply not a very rewarding system to pull on.
I mean that's how Gacha games work? The 4 stars get added to the standard banner.
@ no lol, plenty of games regularly add new 5*/SSR to the standard banner.
@@sssspider Huh. Didn't realize. How're the rates and pity?
@devika2545 better than Hoyo games goes without saying. Nikke is probably the most prominent modern example but they’re also on the extreme end as far as gacha generosity goes.
@devika2545Arknights for example, has almost 300 characters, and only 30 of them are limited(some of them due to being tied to events or collabs). Most other gacha games don’t do what Hoyo does, and you most likely can still get very powerful characters even if you lose the banner character because of that. Their gacha rates are obviously a lot more generous than Hoyo games, but i can’t fault them too much because they did put more effort in making “detailed” 3d models for them.
Who tf will use 1,2,3 star units? There already are a bunch of abandoned characters that literally no one (excluding waifu gamers) plays.
Everything else though, I completely agree with
looking at Reverse: 1999, no one uses any of the 1, 2, or 3 star units so you're absolutely right 😭
And to be able to use them you would have to spend energy on building them, totally not worth it
Same with fgo, people only use the 5-10 that got lucky with broken kits since the devs don't have any idea what is good or bad up to this day.
Fgo even has a problem of unusable 4/5* units, if anything hsr is doing way better than fgo with easier to obtain character and all being usable at least
I played World Flipper and one of the best characters was Owlbert, who was a 2 star unit. Sha Suzu was an incredibly OP 3 star unit. They give reliable easy-to-access support for key mechanics and fill roles that there aren't 4 or 5 stars to get or are very difficult to get because they're limited or low rate
Meanwhile another Eden before it fk’d itself over with stellar awakening system, managed to let a neat trick with character personality system to equip Grastas that give party share damage bonuses on trash units and leave them in the back line so the units at the front who share the personality of those trash units would get free damage sources and moar.
Granted, that game’s grasta system is trash in general when you get in-depth to it.
Its crazy how zzz new game added new animations & custom kits for units like Ellen, yanagi, billy & miyabi but the turn based game star rail cant give us new animations. Even tho enemie kafka has gernade atks & spider mindcontrol atks.
Honestly one thing I feel people don't realize that 4 star aren't as accessible as people think they are. Like sure if you roll every banner you might probably end up having all of them but if you specifically roll certain units you are somewhat screwed.
Like I didn't had Tingyun as a Day 1 player until Feixiao banner and most people treat her as a given. I still don't have e2 Gallagher so I have to use lynx or Natasha as debuff heavy sustain.
Also sometimes you don't like certain character so they should have alternative. Like I don't like Ruan mei but I have all 3 break units so I am always using a whatever teammate with them so having a cheaper alternative like March/Moze to Topaz is nice. I am pretty sure back on Kafka release people were complaining about having to use Sampo with her since they don't like him.
Definitely something I've thought about a few times since, as it stands, the characters being listed as 4 or 5* doesn't actually mean anything when there're only 2 types; common* or Rare.
Some people argued that the units would just be used as fodder for XP and, well, isn't that also like 90% of the use case for the garbage 3 star weapons we get drowned in? But then there's rare, niche cases where the 3* is actually good enough and can work. Having options, particularly as playable options, wouldn't be a bad thing for the player.
Good points all around.
I would agree with basically all of it, and would add my two cents
1. "Stop caring"
I hate telling people "stop caring", but what I really do is stop caring whether I have top of the line units. But that works against e.g. Hoyo, because now I'm not going to spend for the new DPS. Why bother, when my spending cannot guarantee that character? Neuvillette has evaded me for a third time (fine, I'm at 82 pity and have two weeks, I may still get him if I win my 50/50), but what I'm not going to do is buy 80 more wishes, which only gets me to 162 pity, for $130 CAD only to have then buy 20 more wishes ($30 CAD) to guarantee him.
I can make peace with a gacha being luck based, but what I would change is that I would make someone's money go further. If you're buying the biggest bundle, in Canada that cost $130, it should be a guaranteed character (at E1) and their Light Cone (S1). It feels really stingy that dropping the price of a full blown AAA cannot even guarantee you either the Light Cone or the Character, let alone both.
It's why WuWa's weapon banners are so good: 80 wishes = guaranteed. There's no 50/50, it's yours. It's so much easier to plan and budget for that. That doesn't fix the second issue though...
2. Reruns or lack thereof...
I skipped e.g. Wriothesley back in 4.1 because I was like "he'll rerun before version 5.0 for sure" and I figured I would pick him up then. Well, just watched the 5.3 live stream and he's still not rerunning but Clorinde is and Arlecchino, both of which released after him. In HSR it's Ruan Mei... I love break teams but f**k me it doesn't look like she will rerun and by the time she reruns, it's going to 5.2 and we'll just a power-creep on Ruan Mei... or summons will be the new META and it won't matter... it makes team-planning and building impossible. In ZZZ, it's Yanagi, I know she just ran, but I got Lighter instead and I wasn't going to drop ~$500 CAD to guarantee both, so I spent on just Lighter.
This false/planned scarcity is super-predatory. You don't know when the character will rerun, so you're encouraged to spend to get them and their light cone/weapon/W Engine when they arrive because "you'll miss out" otherwise. But when that scarcity is matched with gacha (luck-based draws) it's scummy, because now you really have to go all out or risk losing them forever or having a sub-optimal build.
If you're not going to rerun a character for 1 year, just put them on the standard banner, Hoyo, or have a Chronicled wish every patch/every other patch so we can actually plan for it.
And I say all this because I think it's actually better business. If character outfits cost $20 CAD, I have to think hard about whether i want it. If they cost $5 CAD, I'd just buy them if I liked it even a little. Similarly, if it was easier to plan when someone was running/rerunning, I could plan it out. I would easily spend more wisely.
The problem with the gacha as it stands now, is that it's predatory/adversarial. You interests do not line up with Hoyo's... and they could.
This is *exactly* how I feel. The entire reason I don't spend money on Mihoyo games is *because* my money wouldn't go remotely far enough to justify the purchase. If it went farther, I'd 100% buy something.
Making something cheaper can have the effect of increased profit because more people will buy it. If people perceive a worthwhile sale, they are significantly more likely to buy the product-that's how non-gacha microtransaction-based games make so much money. They create deals that make the customer feels as though they've gotten something of great value. They 'sort of' have this with the Initial Top-Up, but it's not what I'd call remotely enough of a discount to be a draw. The $30 top-up has the best returns and gets you... 24.75 pulls. Yeah that is nowhere near enough for *$30*. That's not even 1 dollar per pull (which given the $1 top-up is... 3/4 of 1 pull... yeah...).
I can only assume whales spend enough E6S5ing every character etc. with the 50/50 fails that they've decided it isn't worth the trade-off of more customers with less individual returns and better reception.
Totally agree. Maybe they wouldn't pull in as much from people with unlimited disposable income, but I feel like they'd make up for it from ppl who consider spending, or have spent before but become frustrated with how far the investment _doesn't_ go (me), because the chance of perceivably wasting more carefully considered spending on losing a 50/50 or not hitting pity overcomes the desire to even make the attempt after a point.
And they'd have a much more satisfied player base, which I deeply feel _any_ game company should seriously care about.
@@whatisthis252 Hard agree. I like the math you did too because it highlights the point: more than $1/pull feels off. Shouldn't it be like $1/10pull?
@@0v_x0 Hard agree. It's ironically the fear of loss that makes it harder to spend, not easier.
Pretty much, I only buy monthly subs in gacha games otherwise I feel stupid spending to get one character meanwhile I can get 2 AAA games with the current price with that same amount of money or atleast 6 indie games. 💀
1:30 - I think Fate GO is a crazy example. Let me explain. I started playing FGO in 2017/18 and it is absolutely crazy, how you can get three and four star characters, and those characters will carry you the FU* OUT. Which made me really happy. Because i love Emiya (Archer), and he is a 4 star. And also Cu Chulainn (Lancer - 3 star i think). And boi... have i invested hard on them and never had a problem like "Oh, i can't finish this new astronomically difficulty event with my favorite characters." No! I could! And that is the thrill i miss the most in hoyo games. Hoyo has too much paywall in the way for me to make my Arlan remotely viable. I can't be creative with F2P characters unless i drop E6 supports like Robin (Which will deal 60% of the damage herself). Ngl, HSR is an amazing game, i genuinely like the story and all. But in gameplay terms, i think it sucks so much compared to other gachas. Heck, even Epic Seven is absurdly amazing and fun. I even entered the competitive one time and the game allowed me to be super creative with my builds to farm some ranks through the low-effort whales.
Sooo agree with this. HSR is Awesome, and i want to love it. But I can't play any extra content with my favorite character teams only. Makes the entire point of the extra content moot for me. Sure i could put together many of the teams required to clear the content, but those aren't the characters i like (well, except Firefly). HSR right now, feels more like a game you play because you like the system than the game itself. But i mean it's still pretty early in the game's life so I'm trying to give it time. Maybe i'll even get a Seele rerun (yes i know she's not relevant in the current Meta but she's my Fav Quantum DPS and i didn't start playing the game until after her last rerun).
@@akaidono Yes! I feel the same. I also have this thought on the back of my head that says: "Okay, the game is fairly new, maybe Hoyo do have some good plans for the future which they are implementing little by little."
But, one thing that might help, is voicing our concerns in the End-of-Patch surveys. I'm pretty sure if enough players comment about the same issues, they might change in near-future patches. At least i believe they will.
Fgo has garbage and good servants on all rarities, Xufu is better tham a lof of 5*, Holmes is worse than a lot of 1*
Cu cullain is really weak btw, he is only worth for main quest boss fights and CQs, so you only really get to use him once or twice a month for most of the year and for the uses he has ypu are better off just using the sup list and can skip the challenge with free revives the game give you, only really being helpful in FES events. No reason to use him over other f2p options on repeatable content.
@@GS_CCC Even FGO's worst gold servants are better and more useful to someone without any good servants, in Hoyo games, if the 5 star you pulled is barely usable, sticking to the 4 stars is a much better option.
As for Cu, you are mad tweaking my guy, you say "he is only worth for main quest boss fights and CQs" as if that isn't literally almost the entire game? FGO's gameplay is either that or multi wave stages that can be cleared with AoE NP servants. He has better survivability than most characters and because his copies are so easy to get, he can do good NP damage which goes well with his good enough NP gain.
And what are even "FES events"?? No such thing with that name exists in FGO.
@thegamerfe8751 no?
If you don't ignore event shops then 99.9% is farming nodes, if you actually use your AP than even more
You also have 3 daily nodes on ordeal on JP so 3 times you would use another type of servant.
FES events, Like gilfest, nerofest, morganfest. They have multiple hard CQs, so servants like him get some real use there.
And no someone like holmes won't ever really be good to have even for someone without good servants because free stuff is better, you have xufu for free, habetrot for free and the sup list to pick a LV 120 np5 ssr like summer ibuki or to clear main quest with a servant that is OP there for free.
The main quest is already extremely easy with multiple free full team revives and sup list to carry anyone even without any golden servant with ease.
Disagree, I'd rather have them make more 4 stars and 5 stars, then them developing another tyoe of unit that they will look at once and then never care again. In hoyo gamed every unit has it's own community and everyone basically fights that hoyo should give their units more attention. Adding another unit to that pile that will probably never be looked at again because it's irrelevant it's just foul for those players who like these characters. Imo, instead hoyo should especially for hsr, make more 4 star characters. We had like four 4 stars in 2.x and I'm already counting march, which was just a new form. And to top that, they should make 4 stars a lot accessible, by granting every player the ability to get every 4 star character once in like the herta shop so that new and older players can get thise 4 stars they rly want quicker
They're already pretty accessible though. You literally can get 1 guaranteed for every 10 pulls, and sometimes even get 2 4stars in a 10pulls. It's just your luck if you didn't get someone, or you just barely had used any pulls for that banner to begin with. Even as an F2P, you can easily have every 4star unit.
@@tovarishchfeixiao This is mathematically untrue; the odds of consistently getting every new 4* as a F2P are infinitesimally small.
I'd go a step further, even. They shouldn't release any more 4 star characters into the gacha pool at all. Release 4 star units as events and let us bring them all the way to E6 that way, like Hunt March 7th. Getting at least one pull back for every 10 pulls you spend is more valuable than getting a character that you're probably putting straight on the bench anyway once your account is at a certain point, or you're going to the second they release a 5 star version of the character. Plus, it's mathematically easier to get a 5 star character at E0S0 than it is to get the 4 star version of the archetype to E6, which is what you'd need to do to make the 4 star ALMOST as good as the 5 star is at E0. It gives new players a good unit to play with, players who don't like certain 5 stars a viable alternative without having to hope that the 4 star is on a banner for a character that they want to pull on and that they have enough luck to get enough copies of the 4 star to make them viable, and it maintains the veteran player's free pull rebate. It's the best solution.
I mean why specifically low star(1,2,3)? If they want to "test the water" they can just make it a 4 star no? Or if you want a budget version of a 5 star then just make it a 4 star, i see no issue with Moze/M7 being budget Topaz or Gallagher being budget Lingsha (tho each have cases where they are arguably better). Like Hoyo quite literally did this already with giving us HMC enabling Super Break so later on they can make Fugue. Expanding niches are good, i agree with that but why had to be 1,2,3 stars, just make them 4 stars, be a dumb down version of a 5 star. All the points you said are great but there is no need for 1,2,3 stars, if anything just keep making those "dumb down" 4 stars, they have their own relevancy even when a 5 star that is better is released.
Also 4:55 those exist, its Sampo, Guinaifen and Serval those are basically the "low cost DoT support" cuz all have specific interactions with their element DoT in their kit.
Also also, speaking of FGO, most 123 star servants that sees any uses are because they can a) kill themselves/others(Arash, Chen Gong or Taunters) b)early game design being absolutely stupid(Cu Lancer,Hans) and rarely if ever someone is actually used for their unique qualities(Asclepius,Xu Fu,etc) the rest are memes or outclassed by others of the same category or by a 4 star welfare. And in FGO you can hyper invest in lowcost with Fou and Grails so the different between 123 and 4 is indifferent to none. Rarity in FGO is really just for who to be 5 stars and the rest, i dont really see an issue in clumping "the rest" into 4 stars like Hoyo did
Dude, that's just saying that there are good 1,2 and 3 star servants that are used a lot in FGO but with extra steps, you thought you were pointing out the exceptions when you were just pointing out the qualities of the characters.
And "early game design being absolutely stupid" is such a Genshin thing to say, there are still 1 and 3 star characters being released to this day that are good like Nobukatsu, Theseus and that Japanese sniper lady.
The idea is basically to make a character which would not have fancy/costly animation, it would be characters that are simple, and lower budget than 4*.
@@thegamerfe8751every low cost dps in FGO are outclassed the moment you got any 4 or 5 star
There are like 5 actual good low cost dps in FGO while the rest are bottom of all jokes
FGO give out materials so it doesnt feel as bad to waste on low cost dps
And early game design absolutely affect viability of FGO servants,why tf hasnt anyone got a PFA as good as Cu lancer?Because that skill is broken as shit and devs knew that so they wont making it again, early design of FGO are wack as fuck with servants having horrendous or absolutely broken kits/stats
Also like in FGO,you can force everything to be viable bc you can hyper invest with gold fous/grails/card enhancements
FGO had like hundreds of Servants so even a niche in FGO can be a sizeable ammount so Nobukatsu only buffing 3 servants is still good enough,like imagine Star Rail but a support said "you can only buff Firefly". Also Nobukatsu most common use is still that he can just off himself
I dont think the rarities are a problem. Its just they are releasing more 5* units that do a lot, every chance they get and since the content in the game is tailored to those characters then there is this "need" to pull them and the powercreep becomes even more evident. This coupled with the awful wish system where if you lose a 50/50 you just dont really get nothing and all farming and all the time and money spent just goes down the drain.
Imo more character should be added to the standard banner specially the chracters that even though are not as powerful now it still could be useful for some players even if just to get a character from a archetype that they dont have yet. And also add more 4* units for niche/underfocused playstyles.
For example, if you lose the 50/50 in the limited banner you should be able to choose something from the standard pool and units like Seele, Jing Yuan, Silver Wolf and others they arent particulary meta right now but can help players try something new or just clearing some of the content and doesnt feel like too much of a loss when you lose a 50/50 while also allowing more versatility and diversity in teamcomps
Its crazy to me that Hoyoverse prefers double/triple banners over adding characters to the standard banner, i know its for the money but still, we are not even in 3.0 and there are already double banners and we might be going for triple in a few patches. Just put the some characters in the standard and let the playes choose some character when we lose the 50/50, it could even incetivize us more to pool the standard banner
The best they can do are:
- Stop releasing multiple 5 Star
- Release more 4 Star
- Add old Limited 5 Star character in the standard Banner
-Stop hp inflation on endgame enemies
-Rerun beloved previous versions characters
>Add old Limited 5 Star character in the standard Banner
This is illegal in China and possibly parts of the EU.
@@TheNekoGentlemanhonkai impact does it and it's a hoyo game.
@@minuteman21
- HP inflation isn't the problem, every game has that, the problem is the game itself
- They already doing it by rerun *Meta characters* sooner instead of "old beloved" characters because Meta is more Beloved than Old 🙄
@@TheNekoGentleman
Hi3 exist, it name *"Honkai"* Impact 3rd
Genshin also did that with banner announcements in livestream
Just give a 4* selector every 45 rolls.
Most people only use 1 2 and 3 stars as exp fodder. Something that doesn't exist in hoyo games. No point to them not just being 4 stars and costly because of how detailed the animations are in hoyo games. Would also affect gacha rates. Would actually like to see some notable side characters as playable though.
The reason for the lower rarity is to decrease the animation budget for these characters.
@@asafesseidonsapphire But that would also decrease the game's quality as well in terms of visuals.
i personally do not agree with this at all. my main problem with most gachas are how needlessly bloated the character rosters are and how it’s extremely blatant that characters are made to sell first and foremost. i don’t get dopamine from pulling characters as “units.” i desperately care about who they are, not just their looks, i want them to have a story that sticks with me. considering 4 stars already struggle with this enough in star rail, i don’t think we need even more characters just for the sake of it that will be completely irrelevant. us having a limited roster is a good thing for a game like this in my opinion, because it makes each new character that much more impactful. it makes it easy to never forget the roster, who came out each patch. in other words, they have meaning, purpose. i don’t want random niches sold to me, there’s not really a point to it.
@MeliariMelody It'll all come down to differing opinions, but personally I feel the 4*s struggling with it is a direct result of hoyo trying to make the 5* seem more appealing. If there's lower rarities to do that instead, then imo the 4* will have more room to be important.
Appreciate your thoughts regardless!
but like, half of the low rarity servants of fgo have better story than any hsr character. that's a hoyo problem, that prefers to do a monkey event than giving character development
@@yaaa-kunwell they have at least a pre-established backgrounds due to most of them are based on real life history figures or legends lol, it would be weird if they don’t have any backstory at all.
As an FGO player its the main reason i still play, i still remember how amazing 4th anni was when we got broken AF low star characters like Jason, Chen, and Charlotte 2 of which i still use either for farming or a panic button (my Charlotte always clutches that clean up)
I feel like its still possible for hyv to add 3 star characters like you suggested through the already existing enemies. Sort of like the units in aetherium wars but playable. And they already have pretty good animation so that solves the whole quality standard thing.
@@LiterallyJustJun That would definitely be one option!
It's so sad especially since so many gacha have done it better. The standard and limited system is so weird? most gacha games give you multiple gacha's, one for each archetype, imagine how cool it would be if there was a preservation banner, a nihility banner and a destruction banner. Then they could get round the new limited character issue by giving something like a 10 times probability boost for said character in the month after the character is released. It just makes the experience better, and you don't have to wait months or even years for a new limited character to be released so you can finally put a decent team together.
In regards to 1*, 2*, and 3* characters for more support, Hoyo manages their games like the CCP manages the chinese economy. They force the demand (endgame meta) and offer the product for it (meta characters). Adding character rarities below 4* would not make them loose money, but it would give costumers a decision and I suppose they cannot allow that.
Yeah not having a guaranteed limited unit at the first rotation is crazy. When I started HSR and my friend told me about the pulling system I was pissed
have you tried to pull for weapon on genshin before ? you need to lose twice before you guaranteed 😂
@ Fr? Then that’s another reason not to play Genshin
They changed the weapon banner so only one fate point is needed to guarantee the weapon instead of two.
Still not a very good idea to pull on it though in most cases for a developing account
Just make more 4 viable star units, and create a selector system that allows us to pull specific units and increase their rates by double or triple on the banner. Using 4 stars as a test or a downgrade accessible option in lieu for 5 stars is a good system in the context of a gacha game. If they were easier to acquire and cheaper to raise compared to now, I think most complaints would be solved
Also, not every 4 star is a direct downgrade from their 5 star counterpart. Hunt March has a completely unique kit that allows her to fill in for Ruan Mei in break teams and Topaz in FUA without actually having a similar kit to either one. Moze is a fair example of a 4 star Topaz.
Gallagher might be 4 star Lingsha, but she was released AFTER. If anything, she's a copy of his kit with more things added on to make her perform better
That sounds a bit much. People ask for stuff all the time. They just give us everything we want. Im sure plenty would love for us to be able to guarantee all sub stats and main stats on relics all the time. ...yeah then there is no point playing the game. But in regards to making more strong 4 stars, there is a big problem that you gotta keep in mind. The better the 4 stars, the less incentive we have to pull on 5 stars. And those are the bread makers.
How many times did you hear people skipped Lingsha because Gallagher was good enough? People were right; Lingsha is great but Galli is more than good enough. Skip. Hell I main Feixiao. Did I pull Topaz on her re-run since its best in slot for her? Nope, and many didnt. Why? Moze and/or March 7th is more than good enough. Hell, many are upset Fugue is barely a side grade to HMC who is free for all of us. They have to be careful on how good they make these 4 stars. And hey, I aint complaining. I get to save resources, and they lose cash. I dont feel bad for Hoyo one bit. But if I were in there shoes, no. I wouldnt focus on stronger 4 stars. Pela, Galli, Tingyun, Moze, even QQ all are capable of handling END GAME content. Even my Sampo to this day handles end game content. Good for us, but...idk if 4 star quality should be there highest priority right now.
I am down for more diversity in the game, and they can do that through a combination of both 4 stars and 5 stars. But 5 stars should always be there priority. Most arent pulling on banners for 4 stars unless you are either new or in a very comfortable point in the game. Just my perspective
@@GodofGoblins Sorry but this is a hoyoshill take. The four star acquisition is clearly a problem and they should fix it. My solution is well within what Mihoyo would be willing to do. Meta isn't the only thing that drives sales either.
@@Dhooparty well duh, there are many aspects to making money. hoyoverse is a greedy company; do not align me with those apologist shills. my goodness. lmao
but no, 4 star quality isnt there issue. if people want to get excited for the game, flashy 5 stars, new game modes and more activities should be there priority. If they release another gallagher tier character....wow. crazy. pinch me, im dreaming.
who cares? we have plenty of solid 4 stars already,. if they want to make more, cool. Im down. That shouldnt be there priority though. Hell, Nikke constantly releases content fresh and new and interesting. ZZZ I hear is popping off lately. And you want....4 stars. lmao, come on man. Criticize them harder. Its freakin hoyo. Cool, I guess make another moze or pela. Thanks. ANYWAYS, how about better game modes and more diverse strong characters? If we are pulling on a banner for 4 stars, they screwed up hard. Just keeping it real.
@@GodofGoblins You keep saying that 4 stars shouldn't be the priority but that literally changes nothing, they are literally prioritizing 5 stars anyway, and they've also continued adding new gamemodes as well. UD is incredibly mid though.
Also, moving the goalpost to talk about other issues is not the point. I could criticize them for not putting other aspects in the game, and at no point did I say that they shouldn't upgrade the game experience. I came on this video to talk about the content of the video obviously.
I can want 4 stars and also want those other things lol. The entire community pulls on 5 stars anyway, they should make the 4 stars better too so that we're incentivized to play more characters and not feel like we're getting useless trash in our pulls.
@Dhooparty yeah it shouldn't. It takes time and resources to make 4 stars. If a new strong 4 star impresses you, cool. That doesn't excite me, and I'm f2p end game. I'd rather they focus on the many other aspects of the game that need work and improvements. Take that time that would develop another 4 star, into making stronger 5 stars (so people stop complaining they ain't strong enough upgrades), better events (pics of garbage cans buddy, come on) better story telling, etc. If 4 stars are what you wanna focus on, cool. Sure, let's make another moze so I don't gotta pull topaz. I ain't complaining. But when I criticize hoyo, I wanna see them actually do something impacfful and meaningful. Stronger 4 stars just means 5 stars are less impacfful or less incentive to pull them. Neat I guess?
Idk, they can do better. MUCH better. Don't care about a Misha 2.0 or an even better galli. Just my perspective
I just want more units in the game in general, it really feels like they release them so slowly. 1 new banner at a time, and 1 rerun banner at a time, lasting for nearly an entire month and no overlap. For a strategy game with team building, there really isn't a lot of unique team building going on.
no thanks
Slowly? The characters release way too fast. They need more rerun only banners.
@@mr.protagonist5639 I agree there needs to be more reruns as well, and on a more fair schedule. I'm still waiting on boothill. But I still think that there are not enough characters in the game to begin with. If there were more units you wouldn't even need to wait for reruns that much, because there'd be another similar unit that fills the same role. Right now there aren't many 5* units that do the same thing except for like, the hypercarry support niche. Everyone else is sorta one-of-a-kind which sounds good on paper but it really limits team building options.
they release 4 stars slowly but 5 stars too quick but even then, units are so reliant on specific comps they are hardly used elsewhere which is a huge problem imo.
I've never fully invested myself into a gacha game until Genshin back in 2020, so I never knew how 1 - 3 star units worked in other gachas. I always thought of them as just placeholders for higher rarity units you'd get once you started investing time or money into the game, and that you'd need whale levels of investment to bring a 1 star into end game content and still clear while getting all of the rewards.
While the solution that doesn’t involve a complete rework of their design would probably be to add 4*s a lot more frequently, and make them actually playable (which to be fair has been improving). I do really think they should add some of these NPCs.
I loved the example you gave on Jeht because she is honestly one of my favorite characters in the game and has been relegated to NPC jail to never be spoken of again.
Yes, only having 4 and 5 stars feel very weird but I don't think it's the biggest problem here. In FGO, 1 to 4 stars characters have very unique playstyles, even more unique than many of the 5 stars characters. Thing is in Hsr, 4 stars don't really do anything unique like at all, the moment a 4* char do something new you'll guaranteed to have a 5* version of them doing the same thing but better soon after.
This means all the different unique and interesting comps are lock behind a paywall. You can still run the f2p comp but endgames are certainly not being balanced around them but their "better" versions.
I do think to Hoyo, they only care about the 5* since they make money, 4* just being there to pretend like you have a free option to play. In the long run it won't be good if they keep things like this though.
That's the idea of the video though! If 4* units are more valuable because there's rarities tiers below them to fill out the "does x but worse than the 5*", then they can be designed with more unique kits.
Where are the 5 star “this character’s gimmick but better” counterparts of March 7th(Hunt), Moze, Asta, Lynx, Xueyi, Sushang, Misha, and Qingque exactly??? You people literally just say things 😂
I like the idea of having more characters to fill out niches but idk about using that to make beloved NPCs playable.
Part of why I like NPCs in these games is the idea that you don't have to be playable to matter. It makes the world feel smaller if everyone important is playable. Also, if characters like Siobhan or Jeht become playable, it makes it more likely for them to be a disappointment in gameplay which would suck.
I feel like 3 star units would have abyssmal stats. Arknights had to buff 3 stars so 3 star clears would still be possible
They won't, since those count as development budget, and having 3D, good-looking, 1-3 star characters will psychologically make 4-5 stars look cheap even if they don't. While it certainly isn't difficult to make cheap-looking low tier characters to fill the role, having an impression of user-created screenshots of cheap-looking characters floating around internet certainly isn't good for monetisation. Most games get away with it by pumping out a lot of low-end contents to create variety, but that only works for games that stories develop around one player and massive amounts of other characters (such as FGO, Granblue Fantasy or Alchemy Stars). And for this, Hoyo's weapon system was born for a reason, to get around gacha scrap issue while still incentivise players to pull more. The actual "usable" pull you get is only one per 10th pull and weapon scraps that do virtually nothing. This implementation also works with stories that are in much smaller scale (keep in mind that Astral Express members are below 10). Having low-end character varieties certainly will not work with HSR's story development, unless they decide to tilt it into that direction. What I instead really want to see from HSR is the way to have standard kits to make the game fully playable right at the gate without premium pulls, and make gacha scraps meaningful.
What is the elitist high caste yap 😂
I'm shocked I'm not the only one saying this but I have more luck lately in other gachas I play like Gundam Battle Operation 2, Transformers Earth Wars, even Zenless Zone Zero lately with the latest update to 1.4 but Honkai Star Rail is like not giving me a break, I can't even clear endgame content without certain characters I need for DPS and Buff mainly. I do the pulls even the 10 pulls and I kid you not, I get nothing but Light Cones not even good ones just horrid ones and Dupe characters who I already have the Eidolons maxed out on, I'm a F2P and it's getting more and more broken, I don't have Sunday for god's sake no matter how many pulls I did and saved Jades.
I must respectfully disagree, but what they should do is make more viable 4 star units and have 1-2 new banners per patch but they should both last the entire patch ALONG WITH one of those "3-ish rerun simultaneously" banners like in i believe patch 2.4 or 2.5, but have that last the entire patch too (or only have one 3 rerun per half of the patch to make it easier to get any of the reruns), the logic behind this is it will give players less FOMO if they are not rushed in getting characters and due to how more reruns will come more often then if you miss a rerun you won't half to wait nearly as long for them to come by again, this seems like the most win-win to me, also HoYo could perhaps increase the rates of 4 stars too
I think its a good thing they're making 4 star versions of 5 stars it makes it a lot easier for low spenders/f2p to focus on getting other units. Im glad i skipped out on pulling topaz and got moze instead for my feixiao team because i was able to get Robin instead of having to use a scuffed ass team with bronya.
stares at gui the herbalist in baizhu's pharmacy.
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Its an interesting idea, but for HSR (I haven’t played enough of the other hoyo games to speak for them) this would just be a bandaid fix for the issues caused by the banner system. If previous featured units went onto the standard banner after some time (like other gachas), then there would be less fomo on missing character and would allow great opportunities to build for different teams. The re-reruns and feature banners make it difficult to build teams you want let alone get support characters for the teams/characters you already have (i.e we have firefly rerun coming but we’d still have to wait for a ruan mei rerun to make the best of firefly)
what would be interesting is having those "Beloved npc's" be add-ons like relic slots on a pre-existing 4 or 5 star character that adds a small effect or boosts abilities and effects. having an HP bot that adds for 1 turn on a CD or some criteria, as an example, would instantly make Blade viable without breaking him entirely.
the sky is blue
I just think you would end up with a bunch of unused characters, people tend to skip over these 3 stars once they have an upgrade never picking the lower rarity up again.
Now if they had a Gacha system that levels up a 3-Star to a 4-Star (Atleast) or 5-Star in quality with meaningful Eidolons that change the playstyle or give them a huge powerspike etc
Your section take there is actually really interesting, I think something like that would fit in pretty well even without a lower rarity system - like imagine a 5* preservation march, there's tons they could do there to make her viable
There are many issues in Starrail that feel like they are issues because Genshin was a success so they were copied directly from Genshin. Lack of common fodder characters is kinda one of these.
Genshin stands out from other gacha before it by being a game first and formost, and doesn't have lower-rarity characters because every character is a unique, special character with a huge amount of design put into them, with a flexible enough combat system and easy enough progression that you just make it work. You may not have a character designed for burning, but as long as you have a pyro and a dendro, you can still run a burning team of some sort.
Starrail has the same slow pace of characters (albeit slightly faster) but much more restrictive teambuilding. If you don't have someone who does followup attacks, you cannot run a FuA team. And the characters don't feel as unique and special anyway because they keep getting powercrept or irrelevant. They don't even have birthday mail. What happened to the birthday mail, Hoyo? You have a main character named after a date, but she doesn't celebrate a birthday?
Another note: I don't think 5 rarity tiers are needed. Just a 3* variant would work. See: FE Heroes, which technically has 1 and 2 star units, but they haven't been seem since launch. Though you can also upgrade the characters to higher rarity and they also can be directly foddered for other value so that's a kinda weird comparison.
I feel like they need to release more 4 stars that aren’t garbage
Besides Misha, every 2.x 4* has been relevant
Every 4* since Gallagher has been insanely OP.
@@archiefsale629yeah but how many have there been? Gallagher, hunt March, HMC and Moze? And Moze is still generally worse than March unless you can get his Eidolons.
@keeneyong6580 bros a tweaker lmfao. Let's just forget pela, tingyun, now serval and herta
@ so like 8 4-stars out of 20 are good?
4:52 There have been two 5 star selectors throughout HSR's history, including one that's going on right now. All people have to do is log in and play the events. These selectors are on top of the 300 pull guaranteed 5 star selector. Why does there need to a be 3 star action advance when you get Bronya for free just by playing the game for a little bit. If you wanted to, you could have an E2 Bronya right now. HSR is actually quite generous. I'm not even trying to shill for the company right now, but I have mixed feelings about your take. There does need to be more 4 stars and hopefully that will come in time. But once again, this is a Honkai game. For the people who haven't played Honkai Impact 3rd, most of the available characters (valkaryies) are 5 stars (S rank). There are a number of 4 stars (A ranks, and a few Bs), but the game encourages you to E6 (SSS rank) them, and then farm their Augment cores (there's no HSR equivalent but it gives them stat/ability boosts that make them competitive with some of the lesser 5 stars). My point is that, unlike genshin which is open world and very casual, Honkai is more intense and battle focused so they are less likely to push out new and viable four stars unless they are meant to support the rate up 5 star, (eg: Moze, M7 hunt, HMC, etc). If you don't like it, play the game in a way that makes you happy (no META chasing), or play a different game. If you don't like where Hoyo is going with HSR, show them with your wallet.
I think the biggest issue right now is the relic system, more specifically the amount of relic exp required to level up relics. Compared with ZZZ it feels like I need twice as much relic exp items to max out relics which feels especially painful when paired with an RNG system with such soul sucking confirmation bias. Honestly going to make a big point about this in the survey because being able to spend less resources to level up relics would make the RNG feel so much better and I can even do spread upgrading to reduce risk of bad rolls.
I think the reason is mostly that making "filler units" when everything is in full 3D is a lot more resource intensive for the devs, like you still have to make a character model and a lot of animations for a 2* unit, it's just that the 5* will look cooler. In comparison a gacha where a 2* character is just a few pngs and voicelines can add them a lot easier.
I do think they could solve this somewhat by giving us playable enemies(?) similar to how they worked in the Aetherium Wars event. Like they already have attacks and animations built in, might as well use them, but Hoyo won't even let us have playable characters before they come to the good side so I doubt it'll happen
the difference between hoyo games and other gachas is that hoyo games make every character feel like a character, not a tool. adding more characters means more resources to be spread across the characters. also, when you noted the rerun issues, hoyo already isnt good at managing their existing characters. now imagine them making more 💀
3* characters(and lower) wouldn't really have their own banners, they would just be in the pool alongside the 3* weapons.
@ ok i think i wrote it a little wrong and i see your point. but also think of the last time you saw someone from belobog or mondstat. hoyo cant manage their preexisting characters and bring them into the story. you mentioned how there are fanbases for certain npcs. imagine now youre in version 7.X and its been years since you meaningfully saw jeht or any character like that.
@@armadiyooThat's the majority of characters anyway. Outside of fluff festival events, most of the old characters might as well not exist anymore anyway.
@Renteka-Bond so adding more lesser rarity ones would just add to that list
@@armadiyoo their are definitely plenty throw away character. Like as a Boothill fan, he doesn't really get more characterization than most random character in other gacha games.
Also hoyo have habit of teasing interesting idea of character but never further developing on it for years
Also while I might not fully agree with idea of adding 1-3 stars, one thing i have noticed due to short perma pool compared to other games is that I feel almost nothing in these games when I get 4 star even for first time. Even standard 5 stars just make usually feel nothing for most part. Like only thing that matter in the banner is rate up unit. I dont get why old units arent added to perma, honkai impact already does that and make even older units even farmable
And thats with some of my favorite units being low rarity units. Was a Kaeya main in Genshin (used glitter thing to get c6), Serval is my second favorite character in HSR after Welt
I want a 1 star unit that negates elemental immunities at C6 in Genshin. That's it. Heck, it doesn't even need a vision for elemental resonance. Extremely squishy regardless of stats added. Basically can only do the pokemon move splash until C6, which it will negate elemental immunity.
My idea was no more standard banner. Gray warps leave after the beginner banner and get turned into yellow warps.
100 pity for a guaranteed limited 5 star. No fails. Starts to ramp up odds at 80. Still 0.6%
It has a seperate tally that has no pity. 1% chance at a standard banner character OR light cone the whole way up. Doesn't consume pity.
That way, you most likely get something interesting along the way.
More then anything, that work being twisted into a loss and being told "just a little more but hurry, the banners almost done, if only you had a way to quickly get warps *wink*" is super scummy. Always will be.
This is coming from someone who is on a 4 win streak btw. Still won't forget that feeling.
great idea that will never be applied to the game, if arlan is a 4 star how do you think they will release a character with a lower rarity than him, if LIMITED 5 STARS are considered bad after just 1 huge version how can they even think to release worse version of those character.
IMO FGO is the worst comparison to do with the rarity system because hsr doesn't have may way to play the game in a strategical way, we have archetypes and play style that aren't and the only thing that matters in hoyogames are numbers, FGO is a way more complex game at its foundation and it makes so that low star servant are really valuable because of their cost in certain circumstances.
Boss in hsr are just hp sponges with nearly to no gimmick (except for aventurine that's a good fight the first 3 times you do it 👍) while in fgo they are really gimmicky and engaging to fight.
Truth be told, I have in every team, 1 active 4 star. They aren't just fodders or spot fillers, they contribute significantly to the fluidity of entire team works. M8, Gallagher, Pela, even Moze. While I lament the lack of 4 stars units, to Hoyo's saving grace, apart from Misha as far as I can remember, the rest of the 4 stars post 2.0 are good.
Honestly speaking i understand the concern and point but.
the problem is that these weaker 1*-3* unit are so abysmally bad in comparison to their premium versions that people do not really use them or would prefer to get the 5* units to make the team work.
FFBE WOTV does this their SR and Rare versions are just there as a very specific niche or one specific game mode focused on their rarity. you don't see them being used in almost anything now.
Granblue Fantasy understood that this will barely even matters anymore that they relegated to having SR on their events but not all the time and now for special events they give SSR. and Rare characters have stopped production except for when you want to the lower rarity version of a character as a skin. and they simply made these old SR and R characters be in the same rarity as the premium ones and made them actually usable instead of being downright abysmal despite being usable
Girls Frontline iirc really did handle well on how to make even their 1*-3* units to the point that they still have uses but only a few of them mostly because of the simple job they do and not the complexity they provide compared to 4* and higher rarity
but looking at GFL2 they seem to follow the new pattern of 4* and 5* only.
Arknights is another where their lower rarity works but it would require one very specific and niche team to make them work or budget team and proper knowledge about the stage by watching someone instead of making it work yourself. The higher rarity just make them smoother to do than with lower rarity units. in a sense they are pretty good.
FGO now many of their 4* event characters already does what you need and sure the 3* and lower rarity might let you play into other teams but sometimes they are so obnoxiously limited in what they can do you'd prefer just facerolling with your strongest them rather than playing a team composition that is good to that level. the only time using 3* and lower rarity work is if you really know what you're doing and abusing some mechanics on a specific stage and would you really drown large amount of resources for one lower rarity unit just to be able to do or cheese one stage? no that's ridiculously bad unless you're really stuck at that stage and can't progress. but like I said if you have a strong team. just make them stronger and facetank it that way or borrow your friends unit. this is my experience after retuning. but before around early 2019 or such their older units indeed helps you a lot. now they still do but not to some extent that they used to do
Unknown knights also knows this and 3* and lower rarity units are just honorary characters that even if you max them they are not useful for what they do. they are only useful because of their class affinity that makes a team work or not. they are really slow though like probably slower than HSR so sometimes you just ran out of things to do
Battlecats has their niche lower rarity units and it works for them as you explained but that often results into difficult fights and lots of retries that in the end you better off just skipping a certain hard difficulty unless you got the right Uber units or higher for it and just do something else where your Ubers can help you get farther.
Same Case in AFK arena. some lower rarity exist just to be linked to their higher rarity units to put them above their maximum level until you get enough copies of them. idk about AFK journey
Azur Lane you would rarely use anything short of a higher rarity unit and just faceroll the right team of SR and SSR as far as you can
each of these game I mentioned have a way to provide for the players.
WOTV gives you new player bonus to let you pick even newer characters (at least 3-4months old above) at maximum lvl to get started
Granblue just spams you with a lot of rolls so you get enough character to make up with what you have until as you grow they just bury you again with more free stuffs and options (right now they literally gave you a free pick to get a limited Grand unit which are only available to roll at least once a month for most of the time that was released up to july 2024)
Girls frontline gives you the option to farm them and not just roll them and you can filter out your gacha to certain types of characters only
Arknights actually lets you stock up overtime to have enough resources to get one specific unit old or new. old units. old events
the only limits is the amount of energy you can use per day.
FGO despite lacking pity and having the fame for not giving much during special days. they actually have a lot of option to farm for premium resources to do gacha (just really tedious sometimes) even more than Hoyoverse games
And here's one thing I noticed. despite FGO 1% SSR rate their chance to get the featured unit is actually 0.8%
Looking at Granblue. their SSR gacha rates can be 3% or 6% but their featured unit rates is at best 0.2% sometimes 0.3% but they compensate this by giving you more chances to roll by giving you so many ways to farm them and outright give them to you to the point that reaching 300 rolls for a spark to get any unit featured in the banner basically doable in just a few months and in doing that 300 you get a lot more other units that are sometimes among the list you want aside from the main target.
And now look at HSR and Genshin. 0.6% for a 5* and you have to fight the 50/50 which practically makes it 0.3% rate.
sure you have shorter pity but if you're limited to only being able to farm just enough for 70-80 rolls in each patch.
you're practically worse than FGO. Even worse if you're a whale since you have to buy all that you cannot farm further. and that's another thing HSR or Genshin lacks. better option for whales unlike FGO, WOTV, and Granblue with their specific whale banner. some see it as something bad. I don't. Even as a f2p i'd understand why they do that. its retention and giving them a seemingly fair exchange for their expenses rather than just flat out gambling and more gambling.
Unknown Knights is literally a greedy game IMO. but at least they let you farm some units to maximize them even though it takes time so you only had to save up for specific units and they are for some reason generous with their currency for gacha (but not during collabs) which tbh makes it pretty balance for the players.
Battlecats is so so its a slow grind like arknights but at least you feel rewarded by some banners and when they return guaranteed and such. not to mention their rates are better in some cases specially with how their feature works basically allowing you only specific uber units on certain banners
AFK arena didn't really bother buts its literally afk and after some time you can suddenly pull the banners a lot again. didn;t check their rates and all but I get hefty amounts of currency for rolling
Azur Lane is just like Girls frontline which is really neat.
Now I kinda understand as to why HSR/Genshin does this. tbf their game seems to require more work so them being a bit more scummy might be to compensate regarding creating new characters etc etc.
but still there is a glaring flaw and is unseen to the common eyes which is their lack of diversity in option for their gacha and lacking ways to provide for the players. having characters that provides like 20-40% of that their 5* counterpart can do will just increase peoples game time and stress on this game
And I say this as someone who doesn't have aventurine and still uses Gallagher and Lynx or sometimes no sustain and is a 1.0 player
Disagree with this one, unlike fgo HSR doesn't have cost limits. So why would anyone want to deploy a character lower than a 4 star when 4 stars are pretty mid in this game in the first place?
No this game doesn't need more useless characters, cause all the traces are BRICKED, so a time limit to get them, what we need is buff of those 4 star, but something HOYO refuse to do, cause of their experience with Genshi Impact, they rather make new Characters to sell then upgrade old characters. come on a 1.5-2.5k E6 character says enough.
A E1/E2 that cost at minimum 200 and maximum 650 Dollars, we aren't even counting the Lightcon. sorry to say, and people consider that system normal. and I know FGO it cost 500 bucks if you are unlucky to hit pity. but the chances I had FGO give me with 1/2 30 SQ pulls has happen often enough, in half year time I hit 3 Pitty, but I also pulled very cheap instant Pulls often enough in FGO, in 3 months time HSR aside from the FIRST 50/50 Win, I only lost all remaining 50/50 that is 4/5 lost. that almost always hitting hard pitty, sorry to say this HSR game is way more expensive then FGO.
I'm glad that I started out FGO JP before hoyo games cuz the taught me how to handle FOMO. Even though FGO has absurd hard pity at 300 pull, It's very rare for me to reach 10 multis to get banner servants plus they even gave us separate chances to get double-sided sparks, gold orbs and rainbow orbs that further increase the likelihood to get banner character. What is suprising about FGO is that I rarely got spooked with permanent servant after all these years playing FGO JP since launch until recently pulling for Luohi. Some people think that the existence of pity system in gacha game is a must but that is not entirely true. Pity system is the reason why game devs found a reason to lower the average drop rate for banner characters and making multiple rng that it seems like they dont want to give characters to the player like reaching certain numbers of pulls for soft pity cuz the base chance is already low just to get 50% chance for banner character. when you include the rng for character builds, if the build is trash, all character you pulled will be trash thus pulling for upcoming character that later will be trash cuz bad rng build and there goes endless cycles. Gilgamesh is still op since launch and I still rely on him in Challenge quests ngl.
Oh btw, this is just a hot take from me. I have a gut feeling that hoyo buff/nerf endgame content was based on the p2w side but not f2p. Or they just averaged out based on the best f2p account to the highest capability of p2w players. I felt like they just don't want giving players the chance to get all rewards from endgame content anymore.
I also really appreciate FGO for making A LOT OF GOOD welfare units, and with the Evocation shop, a lot of them are permanently available.
While i do enjoy the idea of making characters like Siobhan or Woolsey 3 star units, i also really dont enjoy gacha games that have a billion units just for the sake of making them do 1 small thing or just for the sake of filling out the roster. Id rather them take whatever little time theyd save by not making special 3 star NPCs into creating more special 4 star units, but for some reason theyre not doing that either.
I personally don't mind the number of lower rarity units in the game. Five Stars are far more resilient in comparison to Four Stars, and that feels very intentional. If I brought up a 3 star unit and had it all maxed out just to play around with the DoT archetype, only for it to get TIngyun'd to death again and again, I would regret putting any effort into leveling that 3 star. As for the overall balance of the game, yeah, we could certainly use more support for our existing archetypes, but that only became a thing as of 2.X. The game is still being fleshed out, so it's okay for it to take time.
i am not a fan of 3* units or otherise but i agree that we need diversity. in a meta where a character/whole archetype becomes worthless if they dont double its damage every 2 patches it sucks to see so many archetypes fall off,DOT used to be busted but then became useless by 2.3~ ish because the DPS check got too much for it with literally 0 upgrades since black swan. hypercarry used to be the main meta but then we didnt get anything since sparkle (Sunday doesn't fully count cause he's a future investment for summoning meta. him buffing hypercarries isnt as good as his main use,and it wasn't intentional.) and etc. so many characters and archetypes fell off simply because hoyo didnt wanna push them or sell them beyond their debut patch(sparkle). i wish they'd make more units and archetypes usable instead of the current system of "have the current archetype we're selling or have very expensive vertical investment to clear endgame". i just wish they'd equally pay more attention to most archetypes instead of spoon-feeding 1 or 2 archetypes every patch cycle. (expect follow up or break to fall off during 3.X if not both of the becoming worthless by 3.2 or something like that)
I’m not sure if we’d specifically need 1-3 star characters- I think HSR has this problem really bad because they barely even release 4* characters (4* preservation character that isn’t March when??). I mostly play Genshin but at least there we *sometimes* get good 4*s and old 4*s are pretty strong. I mostly look at HSR from the outside but my impression is that the older 5*s are getting powercrept beyond belief, much less the 4*s. At this point I doubt they’d even want to bother with making good 4* characters
A 5* in star rail gets powercrept just a few patches later
I might be mistaken but Boothill got powercrept literally one patch after he released
The game is super meta heavy and powercreeps the characters constantly
HI3 has the B rank valkyrie system and remembering how bad it was to pull for them during even the first few years of that game, i dont think Hoyo can handle the thought of "losing money"
This system would be terrible without an artifact sorting system, it's already hard enough sorting the inventory as it is. We'd also need to buff the inventory space for artifacts to 3k-6k on all games.
my theory is why dont release more 4 star or lower tier because creating them takes almost the same money as a 5 star, making animations, voice acting, conceptualizing the character. and they dont get money from it. and its not only on Hoyo, GFL2, Wuwa and others doesnt have 4 star below characters too
No. Ive been thinking something similar. We need more "free" characters and more standard banner characters. We dont need 3, 2, and 1 stars since theyd do the same thing as 4 stars and would need to be noticably weaker. But more role variety would be great, like qq=cheap dan heng il, gallagher=cheap lingsha, etc. A cocolia in a nostalgia event would be nice. Id spend on the spot, who wouldnt
So on one hand I get filling slots that may be lacking with 1-3 stars HOWEVER that seems very much like a temporary thing because lord knows roster size is already bloated. Genshin has 80 characters in 4 years. They have more characters in 4 years than warframe has made frames in 10. Not to mention in other games with 3 stars I've played they often get abandoned super early. Once you have 1 semi functioning team of 4 stars or 5 stars the 3 stars become irrelevant and just roster fodder. What we need is more selectors or more consistent permanent event 4 stars. DoT is terrible not because they refuse to give it support but because Nihility inherently has a problem of being too broad of an "archtype" it has FOUR SUB ROLES IN A SINGLE ARCH TYPE. Hoyo cannot keep up. They need to make DoT it's own archtype like Summons are now under remembrance.
Actually Genshin does have a 1 star character called Dehya rn
(/s)
i disagree on adding lower rarities, we only need more 4* & more free units. Since not all 4* are equal in strength they're already equivalent to different rarities below SSR Servants. I'll take kit bloat over unit bloat, & those same servants still need bloated QAB supports, also the whole reason there are some many lower rarities/consolation prizes is because there's no pity(& no the sad excuse of a pity they added doesn't count). For those who don't know imagine pulling 330 times before guaranteeing the equivalent of a featured 5*.
The problem with 1-3* is how tf are they gonna be relevant when hp inflation doubled every patch even people with multiple 5* are still complaining about it
Reminder that HSR doesn’t have 4 and 5 star characters, they have 2 and 3 star because only the 1 star isn’t characters.
Ideas off character falling off does not mean anything in the longer the game, the are going to fall off but the can just add and Dot Support and Bring it back to S Tear.
@@aliadel1475 it does though. You can add whatever support and if a support buffs a unit, it buffs a unit with 5 times multiplier even more. Like you can add whatever support to buff Serval or physical TB but whatever she does , another dps with higher multiplier would end up benefiting more and same has started to apply to 5 stars
@i_dont_have_a_youtube_chan8584 tall me what support has done that...
I wished Jeht got a banner lol
Fu Xuan got CCd🫵🤣
I said the same thing about the ether characters for ZZZ no reason for us to only have that many way too few of them. The next ether character will either be anomaly (which are by design OP which will be a must pull) or a stun character which really those characters suck.
4 stars are almost useless in HSR, anything lower than that will actually be useless even in the story battles. FGO and other gacha game works because the main endgame of those games usually doesn’t revolve around clearing fast. Like we don’t care for how low Cu chulain damage is, at least you can’t die with him.
This whole video boils down to "just make dozens of extra characters bro"
Do you not see the glaring obstacle with this proposition?
Hoyo games have exceptional quality compared to most gacha games, it's not easy to pump out characters left and right, all of them need voice acting and quests tied to them, they're all relevant in the story, not to mention the effort that goes into designing and animating their gameplay.
Compared to things like FGO or similar 2D gacha games which take less than a fraction of effort, time and budget to develop and maintain, Hoyo simply can't afford to output so much so fast (and they already are).
All this is without even considering the second major issue, which is profit potentials, but other comments have talked about this already.
Wow, less work needed for more money, who would have guessed?!
So, tell me if I understand. You are saying that there should be some 1*, 2* and 3* characters with kits that do simple things, such as only action advance (basically a downgrade to Bronya, Sparkle and Sunday), but you are also complaining that Moze/March are downgrades to Topaz?
I'm saying that if we had 1-3* units, then the 4* characters would inherently have "more value". If more value is attached to a rarity tier, then there's more of a reason for people be interested in it, and therefore more effort could be put into designing their kits.
We probably wouldn't see the discussions about "dang I wish my favorite character was a 5* instead of a 4*", because a 4* unit is almost just as valuable when you have lower rarities to prop them up.
@@fl2ur Thanks for your reply. In that case, it's only the perspective of the player what is changing (by comparing 4* with lower quality characters), not the inherit value of the 4* characters nor the usefulness of their kits. I think that could decieve players into thinking that Arlan or Hook are just better because they're 4* characters instead of focusing on what they actually do. Also, what happens if someone's favorite character ends up releasing as a 1*? I'd prefer the chance to have them at least as a 4*. I agree that the HSR team is not doing a good job with the 4* characters, they should release more of them and make them at least useful, but I don't think that creating lower quality characters would help. Good video anyway, it's always good to propose ideas and think about solutions.
@@iNovak_ñ Perspective change is part of it, but its an important part imo. If the only options are 4 and 5*s like how it is now, no one really has a reason to care about them. Someone in another comment said it's basically like our only options are "common(4)" and "rare(5)", and I agree with that.
If the 4* units are considered common units, why should hoyo spend time designing them and making their kits unique? Instead, if there were other rarity tiers to make the perspective shift that they do actually have value, then like I said originally there would be a reason to give them a more unique kit rather than how they act now where they're replacements for higher rarities.
All in all, it's just opinions - realistically they don't need to do a system thats more complicated like this because like you said, yeah they can just release more 4*, and that could potentially solve the problem too(if you already have moze being a replacement topaz then the next one would have to do something different). I just hope there's some change in the future.
@@fl2ur 4* being the lowest rarity does not inherently mean that they are common. Something is common if you can get it anywhere in large quantities. Getting a specific 4* eidolons is actually uncommon, you need to wait for a rate up and even then it's not guaranteed, so I think that part isn't a good argument. Also, I think that the change in perspective would only afffect players, not the development process. If Hoyo adds lower rarity units, those units would have kits and animations way way worse than the 4*, but most likely the 4* characters would remain the same, hopefully more like the newest ones. I really want some change, just like you, but I don't think lower quality units is the correct approach. I think the value of a unit is in their kit, not in their rarity. March or Moze aren't as good as Topaz, but are enough, which isn't the same for most other 4*. The change must come from making their kits more useful, instead of their rarity more special.
Tips on how to make the hsr gathers 10x more players
-add relic/lightcone trading system
/j
I'd rather just want them to release more 4 stars that fill in niches then 1-3 star characters with garbage scaling that become irrelevant as soon as a 4-5 star comes out that fill in the niche like why the fuck would i waste resources on a character that becomes useless as soon as a higher rarity character comes out and does their job better.
honestly i was upset that micah nor siobhan were four stars
I disagree. 1-3 star units won't work in the current hoyo games, because they cannot be made without seriously compromising the quality standards that hoyo characters are known for.
Unlike FGO where characters are just JPGs and 2d sprite animations, hoyo characters are 3d with complex designs, animations and rigging. The vast majority of the cost of making these characters are in these things, and the overall cost difference to hoyo is more or less the same whether 4 or 5 star. I imagine 1-3 star characters would cost about the same as well. Given this, what incentive is there for them to make these 1-3 star characters, when they cost more or less the same as higher rarities, and don't bring in the money?
Of course, they can use the NPC models, but we all know just how awful those are.
Also, I'd hate for such awesome characters like Siobhan and Jeht to be introduced as 1 stars. 4 stars at least. Anything less would be a waste.
People would complain to no end if HSR was like fgo where some 5* are unusable garbage for 99% of the content and it had dozens of filler low stars that won't ever be of any use.
Like they just gave on JP server a free 4* for christmas thas has no real role to be used on, people already complain about weak characters imagine non-functional ones.
At least its hard to make that on HSR since you have basic atks without the need of rng, fgo is just skills and "ultimates" for the most part.
Fair, but there is only so much you can put in a character with only 3 buttons
I haven't watched the video yet but the title is a certified "no shit Sherlock" moment. It's a gacha.
Honestly
Well there's a comprehensive difference between the Gacha system like Dokkan Battle with an SR rarity scale and Hoyo modern Gacha System.
@@XenonDante Not really because basically all gacha almost always tend to try and converge towards the same point on a graph maximizing profits. The difference is ultimately pedantic.
Where Genshin introduced pity to most gachas, it also made for some of the most anxiety inducing pulling experiences known to mankind thanks to the 50/50.
Where Genshin removed many low rarity units, it also removed concepts like "fodder" entirely.
Gachas that give meaningful upgrades to their systems with little to no caveats (like actually needing to spend a billion impulse pulls to see meaningful improvement from the "upgrades") over other gachas are exceedingly rare. The only one that comes to mind is... wuthering waves relative to its Hoyo counterparts I think? And even WuWa's straight statistical advantages can be twisted in ways I'm not familiar enough with the game to know (like making E0S0 limited 5* basically worthless for example)
I disagree strongly, the one thing i find, that make many gacha games unfriendly towards newer player is to many characters. 1-3stars are just filler, unless u have a system that lets you power up those units up to a 4star strength. I think the biggest problem in HSR with is niches is, that we have to many dead units. It feels like the 1.0 4stars and some 5stars werent design for a certain niche, but just a general RPG role. Asta & Bronya = speed, Tingyun = Batterie, sampo, serval = a Dot etc. They feel extremly unfocus compared to newer units like Moze and March Hunt. Rather than them giving us more Junk units i would rather like a new system that Unlock a new Major trace and some minor Traces for 1.0 character (like a universal enhancement) that tries to give the character more focus. Like let Asta Passive also buff Break efficency by 5% per stack (max 25%) making her like a weaker Ruan Mei, Let Hanya buff Crit based on her speed and make her even more a mini Sparkle, give sushang super break or toughness ignore and make her Boothill lite. Make Himeko even more of an Break unit. Let natashas E6 make sense by giving all units a Hot + cleanse for every x Dmg she does with a normal attacks.
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This would make older character more relevent again, specially if you are missing a certain character for a archetype or you have no 5star for the current endgame buff. And since everything needs a money reason they could but the enhancement Material behind the monthly pass. Like F2P can enhance like 2 4*star per pass and/or 0,5 5*star per pass und if you pay premium you get double the amount of Materials. This would also allow them to slowly enhance units later units by being more flexible when deciding when which character can get their enhancement unlocked. Like for example in 3.4 only 1.0 characters can be enhanced. And in 4.0 they allow all of the rest 1.x characters to be enhanced.
I mean your right about diversity but completely wrong where the diversity comes from, the ability to fully invest in abilities or change them to focus on a certain play style instead of the one dimension characters we have now is where you get more depth.
Been saying this for years if there is no 1-3 star then the 5 star units are really just 2 star units
absolutely they should be releasing 1, 2, 3, and 4 star characters. Make them useable. Hell do the Arknights and make it possibly to beat everything with them (even if barely). 6 and 5 stars will be your cash cows sure, but the rest are still nice to have. And if you had one 4 star that did each archetype of a character you'd make FTP players much happier.
i've watched the video in full, and this was a great video! i really liked how you provided your points and this had made your perspective very understandable
personally though, i don't really agree with most of this take... but it doesn't mean that i don't understand where you're coming from!
Thanks! Even if you disagree, just wanted to hear some other opinions on the topic.
Adding more rarities is a waste of resources from both the company and the player, why build easily replaceable characters? I already don't even build the 4* because their design is super limited, I genuinely loved Hanya and Xueyi but they just don't offer much compared to their peers. Plus They're already somewhat fixing the archetypes with some of the newer characters bringing back old units (Luocha and Blade potentially being 2 of em). Getting a 5* is just a matter of luck, my HSR account is blessed af meanwhile my ZZZ account, I've had to go to pity 3x as much.
It’s funny. I quit fgo because of how shit the gatcha was. However, one thing I keep coming back to when I find hsr lacking is fgo. Your friends list mattered. A very very large amount of the “free” servants were very very good with even 1 star servants being best in slot for certain strategies. It never felt like you needed to pull on the gatcha to complete challenge quests you just needed to be able to build a team of free units that could accomplish it if your account was missing meta 5 stars.
There is zero reason to have 1-3 star. No one wants them but in some games those characters can actually make a team. The best game by far that does this is Epic 7 you can do content with 3 star characters
an issue i see is that making these 1, 2 and 3 star characters would require a lot of resources, even if their animations are simple, you still need to account for kit design, balancing, voicing, the character stories, splash art etc, they'd pour all these resources into characters that dont directly generate even a single penny in revenue for them. their impact would be limited to behind the scenes, which would make it hard to judge how much exactly they're benefitting the game and, more importantly, how much money they're generating for mhy. its true they'd make the game better, but mhy has never cared about if something would make a game better, they've always put the main priority on revenue and hitting revenue goals, be it in the short or the long term
No, no brother. The solution is not adding more characters even worse than existing ones.
We really don't need junk units that don't even have a place in the story and are just filler...
BRUH THIS IS LEGIT WHY I DROPPED GENSHIN
Game got frustrating. Got to sumeru and the dogs make it were I can't use zhongli cause corrosion.
Then the new raiden relics are good but I legit need kokomi or water units to make bloom for it. But my team 1 is zhongli hu tao so it also needs water supports. So I legit gotta wait forever for a water healer unit for the team I wanna make of bloom raiden. And no I don't wanna use barbra for months dawg.
I just started playing zzz instead it's more fun. Even star rail got annoying with the scummy re-runs lately, hp inflation n constant power creep. Couldn't get robin & fexiou at the same time, so now i gotta wait months for a re-run.
5* characters are the money makers. The rest of them are just filler, or chances to experiment with mechanics before the 5*'s come out. See Xueyi and Break.
Vita took way too long to get released and the wait was worth it
I genuinely don't think it's a good idea
although I understand where you're coming from, I believe that it's better for both the players and hoyoverse to have fully fledged characters with good animations etc, even if they're 4 stars. I would love siobhan and jett to be playable, even if they weren't 5*, but I can't see a world where having 3* characters would be good, exept if they powercrept 5* even more
Ngl, I see your point but Hoyo's mainstream Gacha games are 3D, and unlike FGO, Arknights, and such, they cant outsource on someone do artwork and they can just code whatever skill and put VFX and SFX and call it complete, they have their own teams on making characters and concept art of the content will be, checking on the animations making sure they dont break while interacting from its environment, I haven't played the Gacha games you have listed but the closes thing similar to that I have played is Azur Lane, but regardless this is my own opinion.
Aren’t some 4 stars basically 3* and below in quality
just make more 4 star problem fixed
@@MagicalThief_Rp counterpoint: it will be even harder to get desired 4 stars
@@sutkonosThey could put more than 2 4 stars in the wish shops but don't
Not to be mean, but this is one of the worst idea I ever heard. Having unit you actually like to be a complete unusable trash is just cruel. Theres enough 4 star in this position already, and nobody enjoy it. Imagine having playable Jeht but she cares less usability than Dori.
Also 3 star weapon could be used as leveling materals. What about characters? What you gonna feed your Scots into Feixiao or E120 Scott will forever sit in your character menu?