Rating Watch Brands. What should they change?
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- Today we discuss watch brands. What do they need to change and do better... at least according to this guy.
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Breitling: 00:37
Zenith: 01:55
Grand Seiko: 03:56
Sinn: 06:49
Tudor: 08:41
Seiko: 11:12
Cartier 12:53
Tag Heuer 14:29
Rolex: 16:27
Omega: 20:27
Boy are you right about living with a watch. My Explorer 1 - 36mm I was kinda meh about in the AD. Decided to go for it since I had a bunch of 40mm sport watches. Man oh man - about 2 weeks of living with the piece - the lightweight and slim profile made it a dream to wear on the wrist! Now its my favorite watch but my first impression was kinda meh!
Agreed! Often you don’t know a piece till you see it, but you’ll really know how it fits with your collection only once you can wear it for a while. Enjoy!
Awesome video! This reminds me of when I added my Seamaster 300 to my collection back in 1987. I agree that sometimes omega is overpriced but this one was worth every penny. Now, I'm going to do some research to find out its current worth. As a collector, I see my watches as investments, and I'm curious to see how much this one has appreciated.
Great that will fetch you some cash. *I used to be a collector, but I liquidated my collection to venture into real estate. In January, I acquired homes in Malibu for $29million, and the returns on investment far exceed what I earned as a collector.
How did you grow your portfolio to $29m, I'm impressed, I have a lump sum in the bank, the rates are not impressive so I'm moving it, what's your cash flow like?
I have a financial advisor (trader) she grows my liquid assets and I reinvest the weekly payouts back into real estate and long-term ETFs like VOO and SCHD. I have also started acquiring some tech ETFs, including IITU and IUCM.
Sure it's all about DCA, could you please share her name with me or any details so I can look her up online? Thanks!
She is well known as - Diana Leayani Lara. please do your own research.
The lion on the back I think is paying homage to their old king Seiko and grand seiko watches. They could just engraved it on the Rotor.
Or a subtle engraving in the sapphire itself. The current approach just looks like a caseback sticker that I want to peel off to look at the movement.
Evo9 range they do it exactly to your wish list, almost transparent logo engraving on the back crystal
Sinn spending more on marketing would mean spending less on product. I’d prefer to pay for product value > brand value, typically. Build it and they will come.
Fair fair! You’re right about that.
Agreed. As an existing customer, marketing does not add any value for me.
Sinn has a lot of tech in their cases etc. , but they don't have movements of their own.
They need to balance it because it's in their best interest to expand as a business
@@ollik8192Not entirely correct - they have produced modified movements themselves.
Completely agree. However, even I would prefer a new website 😂
Man, If a friend of mine needed some insight on watch brands I would without hesitation send him to this video. You absolutely nailed it. It is obvious that you put alot of thought into not only your view on brands but also explaining it in a easy to comprehend precise matter. Congrats and my hats off to y👍
Ooh, the Skipper is my favorite watch release from the past few years.
Tag Heuer is not part of Swatch. Tag Heuer is part of of LVMH. Nonetheless, thank you for the hard work on thoughtful content.
You’re correct! My mistake!
Great video and content , valid points made. The thing about Omega offering so many variations of the Speedmaster is not necessarily a negative thing , for the exact same reason you mentioned about getting a Rolex and the idea of being yet another part of the crowd who has a sub. At least with Omega because of the many choice variants you are less likely to be wearing the exact same model as numerous others in the same venue. Just my view
GS needs to come out with the same watch with NO date window. Ruins the flow of the dial.
@@1in7.8b yes! Can you imagine a Snowflake with no power indicator or date window? It’d be so clean!
I appreciate this video. I liked your stance on all the brands, Tudor needs to expand the pelagos line completely. It’s the only model that works well with the snowflake hand.
For GS, the word Zaratsu is only important as a shorthand for hand polished, mirror polishing performed by a master craftsman who trained for 3 years prior. Oh, and you are spot on with the trendy Rolex hate.
Grand seiko won't let anyone who hasn't trained for five years go anywhere near a watch that goes to the public
Being treated with anything less than excellent customer service when buying a $8k+ luxury watch will leave a negative impression, the Rolex hate is rational.
Great video. I think you are right that Rolex and Cartier just modernise gradually and that is why they have such strong brands and loyal buyers.
Seiko are only overpriced for some models. Their dials usually punch above their weight, and that's what you are ultimately paying for. e.g. Presage Sharp Edge, Craftsmanship Series etc. The Alpinist looks better than most other watches in its price range. You won't find many GMT's like that at that price point.
As for Tag, they are definitely back. My only criticism of the recent Carrera lineup is the lack of a matching date window, but overall they are great releases, even the simple date models. I tried on the Skipper and Glassbox at a boutique recently and was damn impressed.
I think TagHuer is going to make a come back. Sponsorship of F1 puts them on the map, with which they have a strong heritage with. Keith Huer got lots of attention as a marketing exercise, launched at F1, and fit its audience ( who buy Kith jumpers for 800 dollars) it was a bargain. Combine that with new watches that look great, have heritage and are well made…the 1990s could be making a comeback.
Sad to see the Navi go, your video about it made me finally get my own Navi!
Still a great watch! Unfortunately I can only have so many and I wanted to try something else for a time
@@HarrisonElmore You're right about Breitling concerning their price point. I just bought my first Breitling B01 Navitimer 41mm, dark blue dial and it's brand new(box and papers)for $5700 US. That's where that watch should be priced at in my opinion. Also, Breitling is all over the place with some of their models. Both Bretling and Tag need to concentrate on fewer models and then innovate and reimagine from there(ie: Glassbox, Skipper, Monaco....Navi, Chronomat, Top Time).
You’re absolutely right about Omega. I went to an AD thinking I was going to come home with a blue/silver SMP300 but ended up not buying anything because I felt like I needed more time to decide having seen what else was on display that day. In the end my budget went to a blue OP36 because it was quite literally the simplest choice.
Wow, what a terrible choice, from SMP to OP
@@tomislavm2873Some people place brand value higher than product value. Each to their own
Omega is not for you. You werent willing to put the time in. You simply just wanted a watch. I say this owning both a 42mm OP and the Seaweed. So it's not an attack. I am not butthurt. "Rolex for Show, Omega for the know", is as accurate as it comes.
I enjoyed hearing your honest opinions here. You really nailed the issues that Grand Seiko needs to work on.
Small correction, and apologies if others have mentioned it. Tag is part of LVMH, not Swatch. About 16 min in. Otherwise great video :)
You are right! My bad thanks for the note!
I have been watching your videos for a while Harrison but don’t usually comment.
Just want to say what a great video, not enough constructive criticism from other channels to actually give guidance to brands. At the end of the day as enthusiasts we want companies to deliver better products and innovate.
Appreciate you saying that! I don't know that any brands would listen to me, but I think we as enthusiasts should have some sort of voice to maybe make the changes we'd like to see!
I own the Breitling Pistachio and could not agree more, it’s a stunner. I’d still love to see you review it. The pop of color next to a sub in a collection is an amazingly good fit.
I was curious what brands you would discuss, easy listening video (chapter marks would be helpful I guess... and I feel they help with yt seo when covering multiple brands)
Great analysis. It was very insightful and I agreed with a lot of what you said. It was a little disappointing we didn't hear about JLC or Breguet.
So true for Omega..
They should just have the Speedmaster moonwatch, with the hesalite/saphire and white/black variant + the 38mm "fashion" version. All the dark side, white side, heritage, sports... confuse everyone.
The Aqua Terra line should be something not included into the Sea Master line but something on its own to have a true identity, much like the Constellation that no one talk about.
Too bad because they have some bangers but it's always either lacking something or just lost in the crowd and that certainly might be because of what you said.
Would be interested in purchasing the Navitimer ;)
The Sinn webpage used to be good, but with a somewhat dated look. Now they choose to follow the trend with a more flashy look. Still one of the better ones I think.
Interesting discussion! I would be interested to hear your thoughts on Citizen and Hamilton as well if you do a part 2 to this video.
When a brand uses their own movements and in house hand made dials, with unique looks, bracelet designs, then they can justify the high prices. It's engineering and art in one piece.
I think with Speedmaster Customers, there are categories who values heritage and history and some prefer how they like the watch independently. People who like history and heritage make quick decisions, because a moonwatch is a unique piece. But with the other category of buyers, there are too many variant of Speedy to choose and your assessment there is spot on.
I live my Cartier Santos. It's so elegant, and i liken it to a woman wearing Tiffany jewellery. That new Tag is lively and might replace my Monaco!
Thoughts on Longines?
Great re-editions. I got the Avigation BigEye. Lot of watch for the money.
Not all Grand Seiko models have the printed lion logo on the display caseback. I think this is especially the case with some of the manually wound ones and the Soko series.
Spot on with Rolex. I prefer omega designs over the sub but can’t deny I’m turned off of the sub by the type of people who I see wear them and the connotation that comes with that
Agreed, if you wear a rolex these days it either looks like you overpaid or kissed the ad's backsides to get it.
Which ever way you look at it it's a bad look
Most people with a Rolex are not watch enthusiasts and most of them are arrogant pricks. They make good watches, but that connotation spoils it for me.
Fine vid. TAG introduced 2 other 39 mm , tri-compax chronos: The black one with date at 12:00 or like mine, the Navy Blue with the date at the 6:00 under the running seconds. Bracelets were not available but now they are at $300.00 --maybe $350.00. I got a 10% discount ( counting the watch with strap/deploying hardware) so…..about $7K w bracelet. I like the old predictable. I have never set foot on a yacht. 🤣🤪😜
Great video. You hit all of the main points for each brand.
Great video. I completely disagree with Omega, though. Having options is always better than not having them. Sure, you get to struggle a little more. But complaining about "too many options" is like saying "I have these 5 amazing girls and they all want to date me but I don't know which one to pick". Whether you like it or not, you'll start to sound ridiculous. I prefer having hundreds of variants to choose from in Omega than picking between 5 colors in the OP line from Rolex without even having the choice of selecting the bracelet it comes with. I prefer that struggle a lot more.
Great videos, just hope you talk on Longines also, I do think they have things you can talk about.
Agreed with much of what you said. If GS got rid of the power reserve on the dial, color match date window or no date, and better updated bracelet with taper and clasp it would be unstoppable. I have a SBGW231 and no lion on the back so must be only in certain models?
New models are having the power reserve on the back as far as I remember.
Your analysis of Rolex and Omega respectively, spot on! As for TAG, they're getting lost in a great darkness... The problem with so called Parent companies is that when they aquire, many of them have no true understanding of the DNA which made it what it was in the first place. They look like another version of some seiko sports models - too mediocre for one to desire. As for the Grand seiko, the rear graphic is a horrible example of gold leafing afterthought. Great a watch it may be, some design aspects require attention as far as aesthetics is concerned: the hands may be made by the manufacturer of a Gassan sword, but too detail-less to inform visual depth, and sometimes too 'fat'. I suspect that the reason most are on silver is because of the styling of the Watch, rose gold is too warm for the angular design vestiges in many aspects of the Watch. The movement could benefit visually with perhaps a slight textured effect as appropriate. Just my opinion.
3:55 I like the 42mm Grand Seiko SBGR309 gloss black dial (I would probably swap the strap to a leather one though).
Zenith makes fabulous watches. Personally, I’d suggest their Revivals are their best watches as a whole. The El Primero Original and Shadow Revival are still examples of a vintage aesthetic. The Shadow Revival having been modeled off a vintage pro type. The Originals shorn several times, that’s an A386 with an updated sweeping chronograph seconds hand, but it’s remains true to the vintage aesthetic.
You’re right. The black case and some of the other choices make them feel more modern to me, but you’re right the inspiration of the model design is modeled off the 1969 version
The Shadow Revival was inspired by a prototype from 1970.
Zenith was making very cutting edge even avant-garde time pieces in the late sixties and that includes the aesthetics. Take for example the Defy Revival from the current catalog, avant-garde then and you could make the case that holds true to this day.
The tonneau case used by the El Primero Shadow, it’s completely inline with the A384 or A385, they all wear beautifully, they got it right the first time back in ‘69.
If you look at an A386 Original as shown in your video and compare it to a vintage A386, the visual differences are subtle. The movement, hacks on those watches, which for a chronograph is arguably overrated given the running seconds hand is of secondary importance anyway. The sweeping seconds hand famously now completes a rotation once every ten seconds. Visually, you’d be hard pressed to show me where they differentiate the watch from an actual vintage piece.
Very good video. Agree on your Omega points. Great watches, but IMO way too diluted with their model lines.
Lately I bought Omega Aqua terra, but I was also considering Cartier Santos and Breitling Navitimer (without chrono). They look really awesome. So why did I choose Omega? Because of mechanism, so much money for ETA in Breitling or ETA replacement in Cartier (im not sure is it based on ETA, but it has the same dimensions and pretty low 40 hours reserve)- seems like a little overpriced for me. If they work on improvements, ill reconsider these watches in future.
As for now my next watch will be titanium Pelagos or Black bay 58- Tudor has really good value for money ratio.
1:30 I must have missed something. What's the watch you're referring to - a Sinn 903 by any chance?
Re Grand Seiko - the one thing that stopped me from buying that model is the position of the power reserve - it destroys the symmetry of the dial.
You got it spot on with Breitling IMO.
There are quite a few nice pieces but way overpriced, especially as often poor specs and corner cutting.
I’m with you on the past few years of Breitling pricing and QC. Classic case of private equity ownership coming in and pushing profit. Hopefully they can be sold and go back to being independent.
@@cjmcaulay The other thing with Breitling is the high service costs.
Double Rolex lol!
I was told its because the Breitling service dept. operates as a separate that needs to make a profit.
The prices for service have definitely skyrocketed the past few years. Another demerit, for sure.
@@cjmcaulay I guess there has been an increase across the board yes, but Breitling are specifically more expensive.
I used to work in an AD and there is definitely a big difference between the brands when it comes to servicing costs and procedures.
I own a Zenith revival shadow. I don’t want Zenith to spend more on marketing. I want Zenith to keep doing what they’re doing, focus on making great watches.
Absolutely spot on analyses! 👌🏻 Cheers from Frankfurt, home of Sinn!
GS have already removed the lion logo on the display case back. Also theres a runour the bracelets will be getting micro-adjust
Great video Harrison! Love the content man! Thanks.
Appreciate it!
Just tell me this. If i ever have a chance of getting a pepsi on jubilee from AD , should i buy one?
The lion is dead . I don’t think they put that stupid lion on the cb anymore . As for bracelets they truly suck like truly . Its like gs can’t decide what they want the watch to be and they are trying too hard to keep it versatile . If they can get their bracelet to decent quality it will move mountains for the brand . I don’t own any for that very reason . I am a bracelet guy . I dont like wearing straps unless its a dress watch or high complication .
I own 2 GS. Their bracelet is not the best but its ok. The clasp can be better though. When you wear it then you dont really notice it.
Hublot & Rolex are way overpriced.
Breitling, TAG, Tudor, & Omega are priced right at value.
Thank you for this excellent video which has confirmed to me that I am making the right decision in sticking with Aliexpress quartz homages...
Wish you had timestamps for this. Sometimes I listen to people speak while I work, and miss some details and then want to replay/rewind
I’ll add some!
Saved the best brand for last, I like your style
Good insights. One thing I like to add: I think Sinn is massively overpriced.
What omega was the black shiny face? That watch was ❤
Sinn revamped the website a few weeks ago.
Hey there Harrison. Can you explain your relationship with Exquisite Timepieces? Thanks
Hello! Sure thing. They send me a watch so that I can review it, I mention them during the video as a thank you to them. No money is involved or gifts. Same thing I do with Moyer here in Indiana!
I think Rolex watches at retail are fairly priced. They are built like a tank with minimum maintenance required. If you don't like them, you sell them and buy something else without losing a lot of money. I enjoy refreshing my collection on a regular basis, so Rolex is perfect for me. On the other hand, I fell victim to the Internet hype. I bought a GS. I could not click with it. I sold it and lost a big chunk of money.
We need to start getting our heads around the reality that Rolex ADs are not ‘retail’ any more. ADs are a wholesale channel for the secondary market. Sure, some inner circle buyers get to buy wholesale. But the actual consumer retail market is colored grey. And those are the actual market-driven prices.
That Cartier quartz. Priced for fools.
I rather buy a Tudor. At least they are putting Tfit glide lock
TAG isn't part of SWATCH GROUP it's under the LVMH umbrella.
Grand Seikos are so gorgeous! I would like them to offer a better bracelet & put some lume on the dial.
I totally agree!
Very well said, i agree with everything you said.
Thanks for the good video and perspective
My pleasure!
What about IWC?
Harrison, what’s your rating for IWC?
I love Omega but I really only love the icons.
Fair!
Pin and collars are better than screws. Way more secure. No loctite. No worrying about cross threading or stripping screw heads. And you can make thinner links.
Agreed, Ive got a longnies which is pin and collar and all my seikos and Hamilton are the same never had a problem with any of them
@@Andy-ys8sj yep! The only screws bracelet I have is on a Rolex explorer and it’s the only one where the screw came out. Probably the AD didn’t apply enough loctite or what but it’s unacceptable
Absolutely ! So many horror stories about falling screws. Pins and collars all the way, just like Patek !
Cartier is the only "jewelery brand" or "name brand" I would ever consider. The price point for a quartz or seleta movement is ridiculous.
Regarding your variations comment, sorry you're wrong. Actually Rolex Date Just line alone makes up for about 90% of Omegas total catalogue in raw numbers.
The variations comment to me sounds like the Omega mass production comment from years ago. Someone made it up, the Rolex echo chamber kicked in and now everyone thinks its true😂
That scratch on your GS bracelet is painful to look at 😢
I tried zenith chronomaster and I wasn’t impressed
Grand Seiko branding is off and the bracelets are just horrendous throughout the brand.
Drilled lugs on GS exist just because their bracelets aren't up to the task.
20mm lug width just because? 🙄
The lug width needs to be correct for case/design of the watch!
21mm suits a lot of watches and mainstream manufacturers have woken up to that now.
20mm = Microbrands lol
any watch with a big gap between MSRP and market price is overpriced.
All brands of watches are overpriced in this day and age.
If you like a watch,buy it and enjoy it.
An expensive brand name does not necessarily mean a well made watch.
Some expensive brands are now producing brightly coloured cheap looking watches.
good stuff
I think the overall best watch for the price that I’ve tried is Christopher Ward. I own a blue C65 Dune, I bought off eBay and it’s amazing. On par with my Longines Hydroconquest GMT as far as quality for $2k less. The bracelet finishing is the only fault I’ve found because you can tell that it wasn’t finished to the same standard as the case but it definitely is built to the same standard. It’s just amazing the amount of quality Christopher Ward has for just over $1k.
I vomit on CW
@@tomislavm2873 why? Explain.
@@tomislavm2873and why’s that?
Absolutely love my Sinn U212, but Sinn are a pain to purchase here in UK.
Tudor need to make a ceramic bezel steel watch.
No Timex, no like! (Just kidding, I loved the video)
Next time!
Bizarrely I started with Rolex, and then I changed to Tudor. I will never go back as I prefer the real nature of their designs and I really hate the AD behaviour. It's sad that people jump through hoops to get an overly expensive piece of jewellery. It's over!
You’re still giving your money to Rolex.
Well said sir I doff my non existence cap to you, rolex are for posers and box tickers
@@cecaju9516 I have nothing against their company. It's just the watches and ADs that aren't for me.
The poor man's Rolex argument doesn't reach me. I love my Tudor BB41 Monochrome for what it is. I have no desire to buy a Rolex even if I can afford it. I reserve my big purchases for Omega.
@@maitrehg clearly a man of taste rather than a hype follower who chases an infer product at over inflated prices,
You sir know the difference between quality and marketing
Hoogmoed komt voor de val 🪤
Everyone has Rolex. It's indeed bit overrated.
Kisses Cartier Ass when they place a quartz movement and overcharge. Talks shit about Tag Heuer because the sold out Kith collab is "insanely overpriced."
Lolololololololololololololol
Wait till you reach your 50s.
wide gamut, not wide gambit.
Correct! I misspoke! Good catch!
Ferrari and Toyota. Others are followers now. Then, Rolex and Grand Seiko. Ref Vintage, Rolex, Omega and JLC as olympus to me. Patek and Vacheron are for Kingston only
don't look to rolex for your FIRST luxury watch. because if you go to the AD... 🤣 the problem with rolex is never if you can afford one or not. It's whether you can get one at retail at an AD or go to resellers.
Some comments:
Breitling is at its most iconic with the anadigi Aerospace models. While I don't favor most of their range, the anadigis are truly sublime.
I agree with Grand Seiko being largely too big. Their finishing and attention to detail are incredible, but they do produce some huge, chunky watches too!
Seiko, to me, is pretty much done as an attractive brand. I'd rather go for a microbrand, Orient, Hamilton, or Tissot nowadays, which offer better value. So sadly, Seiko is no longer appealing to me.
Tag Heuer... mmm... no. They were cool in the '90s and 2000s, but I just don't see the attraction now.
I don't see the appeal of Rolex at the moment when the authorized dealer experience is so bad. There are alternatives like Omega, Grand Seiko, Longines, and even Cartier to consider! Some might call it consistency in design language; others would call it a lack of innovation for decades. Plus, there's that "Rolex crowd"...
Omega is doing great! The Speedmaster has become pretty boring since it's been overexposed for decades. However, the Aqua Terra is really nice right now! And I agree, Omega needs to cut down 90% of their options and retain a handful of models that are truly great.
The most interesting watch I saw here was the Glycine Airman. Everything else was a snore fest. BASIC.
pepsi/batman and other bullshit - there are horrible it's only marketing and name
GS looks cheap IMO especially for the price.
Not in hand they don't.
@@lamentate07 I'll have to check one out.
@@JohnConnor636 They aren't as blingy as other watches, but cheap they are not. The polishing is first rate, even better than Rolex and Omega, and the dials can be stunningly intricate.
There is a certain 'coldness' to them though that's hard to explain.
Try them on for yourself and decide.
Tudor is a one trick pony everything it black bay,
It’s boring.
GS and Seiko Bracelets is a fukin joke! The thing about the japanese is that the old heads are so stubborn on their tradition and will not listen to their audience!
If they change their bracelets to 20mm and taper down to 16mm with micro adjustments…keep dreaming tho😂
you used to have a nice collection.. but the sub and pepsi.. made it common
"Harrison Elmore" sounds like a made-up name...unlike Prescott Lange.
Hahaha if only it was a nom de plume
Re Seiko, agreed. Why buy a Seiko for £1000 when you could buy a Christopher Ward.
Because with Seiko, you can go to your favorite jeweler, look at a big selection of different models, try them on, have an enjoyable purchase experience (unless you just never like talking to real people which I get), and usually get a great discount. Nobody but watch nerds like us has even heard of Christopher Ward. Even fewer are willing to spend $1,000 on a watch they have never seen or touched in person. Christopher Ward is designed to sell thousands of watches. Seiko is designed to sell millions of watches.
Seiko has something for every price point. King turtles do not sell for a thousand dollars, nor do most turtles. This idiot is just echoing what he thinks he knows about seiko, but you’d have to know their line extensively to know their prices are fair and they are able to do whatever they want like offer cheap models and pricey ones like their SJE models which compete with many entry luxury brands if you just looked into it. Heritage, lume, case designs, etc are class leading.
Apparently there are people who are able to pay more than $ 6.000 for a watch. That's vulgar.