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IMO truth is way more interesting than artistic license. Seeing D-day pocket sleeved Winters would've been better. No Forrest Guth in BoB is perplexing.
Incredible content as always! Very well researched, attention to detail, and an obvious passion for the subject. Always learning something from you and your videos
I worked for my friend Steve at SMW when we made these uniforms and gear for B.O.B. There was a ton of minute details that were done that never made it on the screen.
Man, that was really good. Subscribed before the video even wrapped up. And thanks for the shoutout to The Gettysburg Museum of History as well. Pretty incredible museum that is free to the public. 🙂
Dude you couldn’t be more right. I freaking love that museum!!!! I was there for a few hours last May. Haven’t seen a collection that consented with 101st artifacts (other than Bando’s) in the United States. Amazing. It’s a miniature version of the Deadman’s corner museum in Normandy. Astonishing!!! Erik wasn’t there when I visited but sure hope I can collaborate with you guys sometime!!!
Every since the episode of Carentan, I’ve always noticed how Blithe has an extra pocket and part of a bandolier on the sleeves of his jacket. Love those details throughout the whole series
rear pockets are smart considering some guys had very heavy items in there front pockets like demo, rations and ammo. helps to balance the weight and makes the jacket fit better so your less likely to get snagged up
Historically accurate as possible. I cant stand those 1960 ealy 70's movies which were more about hollywood than reality. Case in point the Battle of the Buldge..
Great details! I've actually been experimenting with options of using a small accessory or parts case to sew on my M42 jackets based on a "modern" problem. We use cell phones right up to the time we board the plane and take off to coordinate mission details. Trying to get the phone back in my pocket under the harness is nearly impossible!
Nice, who do you jump with? I wouldn’t suggest sewing anything to the outside of your m42’s other than extra pockets (if you are representing the 506th) as it wouldn’t be historically accurate. For cell phones I always encourage guys to keep those in your web gear such as a map case for officers or GP bags/thompson bags for enlisted. And/or keeping them in your cargo pockets on your legs which are always accessible. Hope that helps.
@@standinthedoor1944 I too started with ADT, but now jump with Liberty. We don't jump equipment, and I have never jumped with items in any pocket other than my chest pockets - I never land on my face so things are safe there! No worries about reenacting authenticity as we are simply paratroopers...and I'm actually a 325 AIR and 82d veteran. I will likely modify a pocket on the sleeve to make it a bit more snug.
I own a 2 modified jump jackets from BoB wardrobe. I also own 2 of the jump helmets. Wardrobe went so far as to replicate d-bale helmets and modified m-42 sets. I don’t see why they omitted this detail for Winters issue though you may be right, an effort to depict Winters as a strait laced officer. The production also didn’t use Mark Bando as an advisor. For a reason. Ambrose told half truths. Ambrose’s book is full of things that never happened. Bando would have had to correct many things for this production to the point it would be pedantic. AATW!
I would rather have Hollywood at least make a 90+% accurate portrayal that assists the performance rather than a 100% that is little different from a documentary. Another case in point would be Apollo 13, Gene Kranz never said "Failure is not an option" but it's such a compelling phrase that characterizes the movie and NASA's conviction.
I agree that some artistic license can help define certain moments to portray the overall feelings/facts of a given moment. There is a fine balance for sure though.
Sewing. Extra pockets/ devices on jackets and trousers to carry more supplies into combat isn’t limited to the 506 (as Keith says). There is a very good photo in on of DeTrez’s books (I believe it is the one about operation Dragoon) that shows a 509 PIR troopers M42 jacket with a whole bandoleer sewn onto the inside bottom of the skirt. As Jake McNeice once told me he put ammunition, ammunition and more ammunition in every pocket or pouch he had on him. His reasoning was he could always forage for food and wouldn’t need a gas mask because they were jumping behind enemy lines so if the Germans were going to gas the IS paratroopers they’d also be gassing their own men.
Mark Twain said “Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.” With due respect to Mr. Twain, I'd humbly disagree. Another, movie quote saying "...,When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." what John Ford actually said was " when you had to choose between history and legend, print the legend. Hollywood history is not to be taken as fact.
Ya I see both sides for sure. I say that as long as it isn’t over the top a little artistic license is permissible as long as the whole truth is also shared. How I would see it with movies is coming out with a documentary made by the same film makers that lays out the real story along side the dramatized version. Make it equally or even more accessible to people than the dramatized story.
Also Guth sewed the hoodie on his jacket. We didn’t see that in the series, but I saw it at Dead Man’s corner. It’s mentioned in the book “In The Footsteps of the Band of Brothers”
He did indeed wear a hoodie but was actually not sewn into his m42s as that wouldn’t have been practical for when it got hot. There are at least 3 or 4 pictures of him in Normandy wearing his m42s but not the hoodie. Glad you liked the video.
Its is a blue sweatshirt type material with a white lining. I sought out and wore a modern exact example of it when I jumped in Normandy for the 75th anniversary of D-Day. I had the privilege of meeting Mr. Guth and his wife Harriet when he gave a talk at Hudson Valley community college around 2007. Very interesting man.
Mr. Guth always said he wore it because he figured it would be cold in Normandy in early June. Having been there for the 70th and 75th I can attest to that. Also… correction, I wore my hooded sweatshirt for the 70th anniversary jump. I wore my 501st. Pathfinder 42’s for the 75th.
Great video! You have to expect that any adaptation of historical events for the purposes of entertainment will take some liberties. Generally, as long as those liberties don't betray the significance of the historical events or distract the audience, it's not a problem. Unintentional mistakes are also all but a guarantee, but again - if those mistakes are ultimately inconsequential, like extra pockets on a jacket - it doesn't really matter. Anyone who's going to talk shit about BoB and say that the series was crap because of details like this (not that you did - but others do), completely missed the point of the series.
I agree with you. Mistakes are guaranteed to happen no matter how much money is spent on a project. Band of Brothers is definitely one of the best projects out there and it did wonders to invigorate people’s interest in WWII which has helped even more truth come to light that would have never been found.
Heloo i have a question about the cc2 wax treatment did they put it on every thing like the bandolier, ammo belt,canteen cover,etc... or was it more specific like only on the trousers and tunic? And as allways nice video 😁
I was lucky enough to become a friend of Forrest Guth in the last 8 years of his life. I believe that the idea of these alterations did originate with Forrest he told me he customized many of his fellow troopers in Easy company.
Great video with good info, I did type out a long history about the Winters collection and other Items. but it wouldn't be fair to you to have you getting Emails and threats of a lawsuit ect... as thats his go to tactic to protect his ego.
I feel the lack of pockets on the film jackets would’ve been due to logistics. They’d buy extra jackets just to cut off and sew the pockets onto the main jackets, and then the costume team would’ve had a bunch of “unusable” jackets Nowadays, extra pockets are sold separately - back then though that might have not been the case, though I’m not confident in that
The film production probably shouldn’t have had any more that what they already did. I think there was plenty already. They weren’t cutting apart jackets though. SMW was making the uniforms and simply made extra pockets specifically for the purpose of sewing extras on jackets.
That was actually really cool. I never realized Winters made that modification. I'm kind of glad it wasn't included in the series, otherwise everyone and their dog would have those pockets on their uniforms.
I feel the same way. The practice is already totally overdone. Because there should hardly be any extra pockets outside of easy company or second battalion. Probably is a lot of guys wear them when the reenact other units outside the 506th because they don’t know the facts. Hopefully this video and other I make with help them out!
Some troopers of the 504th jumped into Holland in September of 1944 wearing unreinforced M42 jackets and M42 trousers that were only reinforced on the leg pockets, which I've always found odd and interesting. Chaplain Kuehl's uniform from that jump still exists.
The 504th wore M-42s because they sat out the Normandy jump. The 504th had stayed in Italy while the rest of the 82nd Airborne went to England to train up for D-Day. The 504th rejoined the 82nd after fighting in Anzio in early 1944. The Regiment was still recovering from Anzio and was in no shape to make the D-Day jump. I assume the priority of issuing M43s went to the the airborne regiments that had fought in Normandy.
One of the officers in the 504th wrote that they were in Holland ten days in their M42s before they received their M43s. That could explain why some of the M42s they jumped in survived the war.
There are photos of paratroopers putting their M42s in boiling water to remove the CC2. it made the uniform much less breathable so once they knew gas wasn’t an issue they removed it asap. If I had to guess Winters’ uniform was no exception to that but I can’t say for certain.
Is the jacket at the Gettysburg Museum of History actually the jacket he wore on D-Day? The condition is surprisingly immaculate for a garment that would've seen the rigours of the hard fighting the company (and the division more generally) went through during the Normandy campaign. Are we sure it is not a jacket modified during the late summer of 1944, following the Division's return to England but before their receipt of M-1943 field jackets? That's when most original reinforced parachute jackets originate. Winters was also alive at the time of series, and was interviewed pretty extensively by production. Is it possible the reason they didn't show him wearing the jacket in combat in Normandy is that he said that he didn't during their interviews/discussions?
The Gettysburg museum of history and Winters himself confirmed it is indeed the jacket he wore on D-Day. There are many original jackets worn in Normandy that are of equal condition. This, combined with the original photo of Winters in the days just prior to the invasion, is about the best proof one can ask for regarding artifacts from WWII. Highly suggest a trip to Gettysburg to speak to the museum curators who have amazing information to share about the artifacts in the museum. Hope you enjoyed the video.
@@standinthedoor1944 if you knew the real history behind how the Winters collection and so many others items were acquired & changed hands over the years, you wouldn't be happy , the E co vets would be rolling in their graves
I am actually doing a video about that exact thing coming up. If you have any pics you would like to share for the video I would be great to have them!
Stitch Nazi Make Reenacting Not Fun… I’ve watched many people getting rich off of Reenactment Supplies in my thirty plus years of being a Historian. You shouldn’t do first person impression, but do an overview of the common stuff carried by the 101st AB. Back in my day I was part of group that worked with 82nd AB Museum back in the early two thousands.
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Thank you World of Tanks for sponsoring this video. During registration use the invite code COMBAT to get for free: 7 days of premium access, 250k credits, the premium tank Cromwell B, and 3 rental tanks for 10 battles each: Tiger 131, T78, and Type 64 if you’re a new player. For returning players (who already have a WG Account AND haven’t played WOT for 30 or more days): 3 days of premium access, the 2D Style “Bargain” camouflage, 7-day rental of Premium Tank Centurion Mk. 5/1 RAAC or a 100k credits compensation, if you already have this tank in your garage.
Historically accurate as possible
they likely didnt know like he said
Great episode. The use of the bandolier on the sleeve is super interesting! Never heard of that before.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Yeah if you go to dead mans corner you can see forests goofs uniform . :)
gotta keep that tobacco well and dry! :)
makes me want to buyt a extra m65 jacket and do that mod to it along with the rear pockets
IMO truth is way more interesting than artistic license. Seeing D-day pocket sleeved Winters would've been better. No Forrest Guth in BoB is perplexing.
It is indeed. Would have been a great character in the series.
I believe Guth did not want to be in it.
It’s not a documentary,BOB isn’t 100% accurate but is still the best tv series ever
I would definitely agree
Incredible content as always! Very well researched, attention to detail, and an obvious passion for the subject. Always learning something from you and your videos
I worked for my friend Steve at SMW when we made these uniforms and gear for B.O.B. There was a ton of minute details that were done that never made it on the screen.
Would be very interested to hear about some of those details! Reach out to me on my website so we can chat!
Man, that was really good. Subscribed before the video even wrapped up. And thanks for the shoutout to The Gettysburg Museum of History as well. Pretty incredible museum that is free to the public. 🙂
Dude you couldn’t be more right. I freaking love that museum!!!! I was there for a few hours last May. Haven’t seen a collection that consented with 101st artifacts (other than Bando’s) in the United States. Amazing. It’s a miniature version of the Deadman’s corner museum in Normandy. Astonishing!!!
Erik wasn’t there when I visited but sure hope I can collaborate with you guys sometime!!!
Every since the episode of Carentan, I’ve always noticed how Blithe has an extra pocket and part of a bandolier on the sleeves of his jacket. Love those details throughout the whole series
In the frist captain america movie steve rogers wears a pair of reinforced m42 jump trousers
He does indeed. With 82nd leg ties if I recall.
rear pockets are smart considering some guys had very heavy items in there front pockets like demo, rations and ammo. helps to balance the weight and makes the jacket fit better so your less likely to get snagged up
Historically accurate as possible. I cant stand those 1960 ealy 70's movies which were more about hollywood than reality. Case in point the Battle of the Buldge..
The movie Battleground from 1948 was an amazing exception though. Amazing film.
"If yer gonna do it, do it *_RIGHT!"_*
Great details! I've actually been experimenting with options of using a small accessory or parts case to sew on my M42 jackets based on a "modern" problem. We use cell phones right up to the time we board the plane and take off to coordinate mission details. Trying to get the phone back in my pocket under the harness is nearly impossible!
Nice, who do you jump with? I wouldn’t suggest sewing anything to the outside of your m42’s other than extra pockets (if you are representing the 506th) as it wouldn’t be historically accurate. For cell phones I always encourage guys to keep those in your web gear such as a map case for officers or GP bags/thompson bags for enlisted. And/or keeping them in your cargo pockets on your legs which are always accessible. Hope that helps.
@@standinthedoor1944 I too started with ADT, but now jump with Liberty. We don't jump equipment, and I have never jumped with items in any pocket other than my chest pockets - I never land on my face so things are safe there! No worries about reenacting authenticity as we are simply paratroopers...and I'm actually a 325 AIR and 82d veteran. I will likely modify a pocket on the sleeve to make it a bit more snug.
I own a 2 modified jump jackets from BoB wardrobe. I also own 2 of the jump helmets. Wardrobe went so far as to replicate d-bale helmets and modified m-42 sets. I don’t see why they omitted this detail for Winters issue though you may be right, an effort to depict Winters as a strait laced officer.
The production also didn’t use Mark Bando as an advisor. For a reason. Ambrose told half truths. Ambrose’s book is full of things that never happened. Bando would have had to correct many things for this production to the point it would be pedantic. AATW!
Well done Keith. See you on the DZ. Lucky 13 ATW!
I would rather have Hollywood at least make a 90+% accurate portrayal that assists the performance rather than a 100% that is little different from a documentary.
Another case in point would be Apollo 13, Gene Kranz never said "Failure is not an option" but it's such a compelling phrase that characterizes the movie and NASA's conviction.
I agree that some artistic license can help define certain moments to portray the overall feelings/facts of a given moment. There is a fine balance for sure though.
Sewing. Extra pockets/ devices on jackets and trousers to carry more supplies into combat isn’t limited to the 506 (as Keith says). There is a very good photo in on of DeTrez’s books (I believe it is the one about operation Dragoon) that shows a 509 PIR troopers M42 jacket with a whole bandoleer sewn onto the inside bottom of the skirt.
As Jake McNeice once told me he put ammunition, ammunition and more ammunition in every pocket or pouch he had on him. His reasoning was he could always forage for food and wouldn’t need a gas mask because they were jumping behind enemy lines so if the Germans were going to gas the IS paratroopers they’d also be gassing their own men.
US not IS. Damned inability to type and no edit function for these RUclips posts s frustrating. 😂
Mark Twain said “Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.”
With due respect to Mr. Twain, I'd humbly disagree.
Another, movie quote saying "...,When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
what John Ford actually said was " when you had to choose between history and legend, print the legend. Hollywood history is not to be taken as fact.
Ya I see both sides for sure. I say that as long as it isn’t over the top a little artistic license is permissible as long as the whole truth is also shared. How I would see it with movies is coming out with a documentary made by the same film makers that lays out the real story along side the dramatized version. Make it equally or even more accessible to people than the dramatized story.
Awesome video.
Thanks for watching!
Also Guth sewed the hoodie on his jacket. We didn’t see that in the series, but I saw it at Dead Man’s corner. It’s mentioned in the book “In The Footsteps of the Band of Brothers”
He did indeed wear a hoodie but was actually not sewn into his m42s as that wouldn’t have been practical for when it got hot. There are at least 3 or 4 pictures of him in Normandy wearing his m42s but not the hoodie. Glad you liked the video.
Its is a blue sweatshirt type material with a white lining. I sought out and wore a modern exact example of it when I jumped in Normandy for the 75th anniversary of D-Day. I had the privilege of meeting Mr. Guth and his wife Harriet when he gave a talk at Hudson Valley community college around 2007. Very interesting man.
Mr. Guth always said he wore it because he figured it would be cold in Normandy in early June. Having been there for the 70th and 75th I can attest to that. Also… correction, I wore my hooded sweatshirt for the 70th anniversary jump. I wore my 501st. Pathfinder 42’s for the 75th.
@@Coach501awesome! I met Guth personally as well at the 60th. I did my jump into Normandy with the WWIIADT for the 75th. Amazing experience!!!
Great video! You have to expect that any adaptation of historical events for the purposes of entertainment will take some liberties. Generally, as long as those liberties don't betray the significance of the historical events or distract the audience, it's not a problem. Unintentional mistakes are also all but a guarantee, but again - if those mistakes are ultimately inconsequential, like extra pockets on a jacket - it doesn't really matter. Anyone who's going to talk shit about BoB and say that the series was crap because of details like this (not that you did - but others do), completely missed the point of the series.
I agree with you. Mistakes are guaranteed to happen no matter how much money is spent on a project. Band of Brothers is definitely one of the best projects out there and it did wonders to invigorate people’s interest in WWII which has helped even more truth come to light that would have never been found.
This was super intresting! Something i never noticed :)
Thanks for watching!
@@standinthedoor1944 Thanks for sharing! It's always a pleasure to watch your videos.
@@Nyllsorthe pleasure is ours
Heloo i have a question about the cc2 wax treatment did they put it on every thing like the bandolier, ammo belt,canteen cover,etc... or was it more specific like only on the trousers and tunic?
And as allways nice video 😁
I'd think Winters himself would have mentioned this during the making of Band of Brothers, had it been that important.
If someone need these add pockets - I can sell (I don't need them, cuz reenacting the 82)
I was lucky enough to become a friend of Forrest Guth in the last 8 years of his life. I believe that the idea of these alterations did originate with Forrest he told me he customized many of his fellow troopers in Easy company.
I only had the pleasure of meeting him ones. Unfortunately I didn’t have the mind to ask him how many/whose jackets he altered! Haha
Great video with good info, I did type out a long history about the Winters collection and other Items. but it wouldn't be fair to you to have you getting Emails and threats of a lawsuit ect... as thats his go to tactic to protect his ego.
Interesting!
@@standinthedoor1944 should make a trip out to Gettysburg next weekend for Ike's Farm WW2 Encampment , come and hang out with the 82nd and 101st units
I feel the lack of pockets on the film jackets would’ve been due to logistics. They’d buy extra jackets just to cut off and sew the pockets onto the main jackets, and then the costume team would’ve had a bunch of “unusable” jackets
Nowadays, extra pockets are sold separately - back then though that might have not been the case, though I’m not confident in that
The film production probably shouldn’t have had any more that what they already did. I think there was plenty already. They weren’t cutting apart jackets though. SMW was making the uniforms and simply made extra pockets specifically for the purpose of sewing extras on jackets.
That was actually really cool. I never realized Winters made that modification. I'm kind of glad it wasn't included in the series, otherwise everyone and their dog would have those pockets on their uniforms.
I feel the same way. The practice is already totally overdone. Because there should hardly be any extra pockets outside of easy company or second battalion. Probably is a lot of guys wear them when the reenact other units outside the 506th because they don’t know the facts. Hopefully this video and other I make with help them out!
@@standinthedoor1944 It is interesting though that it became so ubiquitous.
Go for accuracy,
Dick Winters robbed a watch from a dead American paratrooper on D-Day
Interesting. Don’t think I have heard that story.
@@standinthedoor1944 war and truth can tell you all about on youtube winters give the watch to a girl instead to the family.
Some troopers of the 504th jumped into Holland in September of 1944 wearing unreinforced M42 jackets and M42 trousers that were only reinforced on the leg pockets, which I've always found odd and interesting. Chaplain Kuehl's uniform from that jump still exists.
Indeed. Gavin also wore m42s most of the time.
The 504th wore M-42s because they sat out the Normandy jump. The 504th had stayed in Italy while the rest of the 82nd Airborne went to England to train up for D-Day. The 504th rejoined the 82nd after fighting in Anzio in early 1944. The Regiment was still recovering from Anzio and was in no shape to make the D-Day jump. I assume the priority of issuing M43s went to the the airborne regiments that had fought in Normandy.
One of the officers in the 504th wrote that they were in Holland ten days in their M42s before they received their M43s. That could explain why some of the M42s they jumped in survived the war.
They should be as historically accurate as possible. There is artistic licence and that can be useful but not at the cost of known facts. 😊
There is a balance for sure that is so tricky.
@@standinthedoor1944 agree 👍🏻
I’m not saying it’s not the actual one, but why isn’t it CC2
Was the CC3 treatment washed out of Winters' jacket that's in the museum?
There are photos of paratroopers putting their M42s in boiling water to remove the CC2. it made the uniform much less breathable so once they knew gas wasn’t an issue they removed it asap. If I had to guess Winters’ uniform was no exception to that but I can’t say for certain.
Is the jacket at the Gettysburg Museum of History actually the jacket he wore on D-Day? The condition is surprisingly immaculate for a garment that would've seen the rigours of the hard fighting the company (and the division more generally) went through during the Normandy campaign. Are we sure it is not a jacket modified during the late summer of 1944, following the Division's return to England but before their receipt of M-1943 field jackets? That's when most original reinforced parachute jackets originate.
Winters was also alive at the time of series, and was interviewed pretty extensively by production. Is it possible the reason they didn't show him wearing the jacket in combat in Normandy is that he said that he didn't during their interviews/discussions?
The Gettysburg museum of history and Winters himself confirmed it is indeed the jacket he wore on D-Day. There are many original jackets worn in Normandy that are of equal condition. This, combined with the original photo of Winters in the days just prior to the invasion, is about the best proof one can ask for regarding artifacts from WWII. Highly suggest a trip to Gettysburg to speak to the museum curators who have amazing information to share about the artifacts in the museum. Hope you enjoyed the video.
@@standinthedoor1944 if you knew the real history behind how the Winters collection and so many others items were acquired & changed hands over the years, you wouldn't be happy , the E co vets would be rolling in their graves
@@standinthedoor1944 you should look up the story on the "Pvt House's blood stained bible " he was KIA in Normandy june 7th, 1944
you can get some garments very clean if its not lost too much color.
We modified our DCUs the same way in 10th Group for Iraq in the mid 2000s.
I am actually doing a video about that exact thing coming up. If you have any pics you would like to share for the video I would be great to have them!
"...precious items such as cigarettes"
Precious trading and moral items. Haha
Wow! I am so disillusioned. 🙄
Stitch Nazi Make Reenacting Not Fun… I’ve watched many people getting rich off of Reenactment Supplies in my thirty plus years of being a Historian. You shouldn’t do first person impression, but do an overview of the common stuff carried by the 101st AB. Back in my day I was part of group that worked with 82nd AB Museum back in the early two thousands.
Not sure how you see stitch Nazi in any of that video. Simply sharing history.