Here is a HUGE TIP I forgot to mention: Don’t worry about setting the Gain in the beginning, send it as is to the FOH. But there is a problem; you as the band won’t have enough gain to listen in your ears. Fix: set all channel sends to Pre-Fader, add the Make-Up gain in the compressors, problem fixed! I actually like the way the EQ sounded with the compressors adding gain, and no if you set your tap points correctly on the ultranet out, it WILL NOT affect FOH. Hope you enjoyed!
Can you make a video about this specific trick? I’ve ran into the problem in the past where I felt like I’ve gain staged everything well & that it sounded good in our iems but in the louder parts, usually for the vocals or guitars, we’d get some distortion from the PA. Wasn’t sure if it was user error on our end or if the foh was still adding even more gain.
@@landog9029 I have a show coming up, and we are doing this exactly, I will see if I have time, I believe I have about 30 min to change over so the band should help
@@seantallica2020 Thanks for all your experience with this. Can you update us on if the compressor make up gain introduces any weird extra noise? I like the idea of using the channels' compressors as the XAir's "preamp" knob for our IEM's.
We also use XR18 and DN4816-O for our band as IEM rig. But it happened several times that the FOH sound engineer reported that the signal from DN4816-O is too hot when I set the gain to average (and recommended) -18dB on XR18. So our solution is to set the gains to -30dB. Of course, this results in a lower signal-to-sum ratio, but it's still imperceptible for live playing. Another problem that gave us quite a hard time was occasional loud noise on some output channels on the DN4816-O. Eventually we found out on reddit that it was probably a bad masterclock synchronization. The solution is simple - turn on DN4816-O after XR18 is fully up and running.
Nice rig. I use my rig for IEMs at every gig and none of the FOH engineers would take outs from our digital system, so we've always had to carry a copper snake. That's including using Metric Halo converters, which are a huge upgrade from any Midas or Behringer. However, I'm considering getting this box because I've gone to the Wing Rack and need more outputs for IEMs with an 8-11 piece band. Glad to hear it's been reliable and useful!
I use the XR18 with two 8Ch MS8000 Behringer splitters. Pricewise it comes out about the same, maybe a tad cheaper, depending on what splitters and XLR multicores you use. But it is just so much easier, there is no fuzz with gainstaging, the FOH does not need to worry about anything, he just gets the raw signal and thats it. Even phantom power we do ourselfs since the splitters have one direct link and one galvanicly isolated out and the later goes to FOH. The DN4816-O is nice if you want to have your outputs about 200 feet away from your mixer and you dont have an XLR multicore that long or you want to make use of wall installed CAT5/CAT6 cables in a studio. But other than that I dont think it is that usefull...
@@Medievalfan94 once I had it dialed in, then it is plug in play for the rest of the gigs, I believe it is much better using stage connect for the wing console, since the wing has more outputs, or even studio use, but everyone has there own way of running things!
Interested to see how much mileage you get out that. Thought about doing the same thing for space saving. Issue is this solution might not scale depending on the situation. Larger gigs you may run into engineers that aren't going to take post gain sends. It might be rare, but we decided a passive split accounts for pretty much everything. No Behringer eco-system at FOH? no problem with passive splits. FOH engineer doesn't wanna deal with post gain sends? no problem with passive splits. Compatability to replace on the road / quickly? Passive split XLR's are a lot more common. Plus you don't have to gain down for FOH and use compressors like you were saying. You have complete control over the boards features for IEM's. Interested to see if you run into any of that or if it just continues to work with most your festival / venue engineers!
It had worked the first time, ironically they had a M32 lol, we have many shows coming up as we do and the near end of the year, and since we already ran a show, the gain is set and forget anyways, after these shows I may make an update on how these shows went
I'm running an X32 Rack with a DL32. I've also got 2 SR8s to split. I just give the snake coming out of the SR8s to FOH (when there is a FOH) otherwise we just run everything into the DL32 and IEMs coming out of the DL32 outs. Simple rig and only weighs about 60lbs with our IEM rackmounts. When I'm running FOH for other bands I'm just running the X32 Rack with the DL32 and its all good! Great video man!
Im glad you also do something similar! For me I like having physical snakes, instead of the SR8s, since most of the band members can plug in the tails instead of worrying about the shielded Ethernet wire.
I thought this a while back also, but upon more research it doesn’t really ruin it, the band sending the the signal out should already have phantom power anyways, I believe my last show the FOH had Phantom power, but It really didn’t effect anything
I've been trying to figure this out, but can the DN4816-O send signals that will not be affected by changing the input gain on something like the XR18? I know you covered gain staging, but I'm wondering if there is any option at all... Thanks!
Sadly the main issue is any Gain you changed, set, establish, will be effected at the line send outs. There really is no way to send pre-gain. However, it’s best if you leave the gain set from the start, and if you are doing the set up I am doing now(DN->FOH) what I discovered is since you send the Tap/In to FOH, you can add Make-Up gain back in from the Compressors on the channels, you basically add more gain without affecting the FOH! On the show where I first used this, there was an issue where all the band mates had all the channels turned up; since I lowered the gain by -5dB so the FOH can control, it was a pressing issue, but I figured to set there bus channels Pre-fader, and add the Make-Up gain on the compressors, then we did not need to push the faders up, and in my case, I liked the way certain instruments sounded adding Make-Up gain after the EQ! Hope that helps!
As stated on the tech rider that I have a 10’ snake, and if they do not have one I have a personal 100’ foot 16channel snake needed, that why I let them know in a week of advance so if they have any questions. 90% of sound companies have stage boxes, and even snakes on stage.
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Here is a HUGE TIP I forgot to mention:
Don’t worry about setting the Gain in the beginning, send it as is to the FOH.
But there is a problem; you as the band won’t have enough gain to listen in your ears.
Fix: set all channel sends to Pre-Fader, add the Make-Up gain in the compressors, problem fixed!
I actually like the way the EQ sounded with the compressors adding gain, and no if you set your tap points correctly on the ultranet out, it WILL NOT affect FOH.
Hope you enjoyed!
Can you make a video about this specific trick? I’ve ran into the problem in the past where I felt like I’ve gain staged everything well & that it sounded good in our iems but in the louder parts, usually for the vocals or guitars, we’d get some distortion from the PA. Wasn’t sure if it was user error on our end or if the foh was still adding even more gain.
@@landog9029 I have a show coming up, and we are doing this exactly, I will see if I have time, I believe I have about 30 min to change over so the band should help
@@seantallica2020 Thanks for all your experience with this. Can you update us on if the compressor make up gain introduces any weird extra noise? I like the idea of using the channels' compressors as the XAir's "preamp" knob for our IEM's.
We also use XR18 and DN4816-O for our band as IEM rig. But it happened several times that the FOH sound engineer reported that the signal from DN4816-O is too hot when I set the gain to average (and recommended) -18dB on XR18. So our solution is to set the gains to -30dB. Of course, this results in a lower signal-to-sum ratio, but it's still imperceptible for live playing.
Another problem that gave us quite a hard time was occasional loud noise on some output channels on the DN4816-O. Eventually we found out on reddit that it was probably a bad masterclock synchronization. The solution is simple - turn on DN4816-O after XR18 is fully up and running.
Nice rig. I use my rig for IEMs at every gig and none of the FOH engineers would take outs from our digital system, so we've always had to carry a copper snake. That's including using Metric Halo converters, which are a huge upgrade from any Midas or Behringer. However, I'm considering getting this box because I've gone to the Wing Rack and need more outputs for IEMs with an 8-11 piece band. Glad to hear it's been reliable and useful!
I use the XR18 with two 8Ch MS8000 Behringer splitters. Pricewise it comes out about the same, maybe a tad cheaper, depending on what splitters and XLR multicores you use. But it is just so much easier, there is no fuzz with gainstaging, the FOH does not need to worry about anything, he just gets the raw signal and thats it. Even phantom power we do ourselfs since the splitters have one direct link and one galvanicly isolated out and the later goes to FOH. The DN4816-O is nice if you want to have your outputs about 200 feet away from your mixer and you dont have an XLR multicore that long or you want to make use of wall installed CAT5/CAT6 cables in a studio. But other than that I dont think it is that usefull...
@@Medievalfan94 once I had it dialed in, then it is plug in play for the rest of the gigs, I believe it is much better using stage connect for the wing console, since the wing has more outputs, or even studio use, but everyone has there own way of running things!
Interested to see how much mileage you get out that. Thought about doing the same thing for space saving. Issue is this solution might not scale depending on the situation. Larger gigs you may run into engineers that aren't going to take post gain sends. It might be rare, but we decided a passive split accounts for pretty much everything. No Behringer eco-system at FOH? no problem with passive splits. FOH engineer doesn't wanna deal with post gain sends? no problem with passive splits. Compatability to replace on the road / quickly? Passive split XLR's are a lot more common. Plus you don't have to gain down for FOH and use compressors like you were saying. You have complete control over the boards features for IEM's. Interested to see if you run into any of that or if it just continues to work with most your festival / venue engineers!
It had worked the first time, ironically they had a M32 lol, we have many shows coming up as we do and the near end of the year, and since we already ran a show, the gain is set and forget anyways, after these shows I may make an update on how these shows went
I'm running an X32 Rack with a DL32. I've also got 2 SR8s to split. I just give the snake coming out of the SR8s to FOH (when there is a FOH) otherwise we just run everything into the DL32 and IEMs coming out of the DL32 outs. Simple rig and only weighs about 60lbs with our IEM rackmounts. When I'm running FOH for other bands I'm just running the X32 Rack with the DL32 and its all good! Great video man!
Im glad you also do something similar! For me I like having physical snakes, instead of the SR8s, since most of the band members can plug in the tails instead of worrying about the shielded Ethernet wire.
How about Phantom Power (48v)?
When FoH “accidentally” sends a Phantom Power to a channel, does it damage the DN4816 in anyway? Thanks!
I thought this a while back also, but upon more research it doesn’t really ruin it, the band sending the the signal out should already have phantom power anyways, I believe my last show the FOH had Phantom power, but It really didn’t effect anything
I've been trying to figure this out, but can the DN4816-O send signals that will not be affected by changing the input gain on something like the XR18? I know you covered gain staging, but I'm wondering if there is any option at all... Thanks!
Sadly the main issue is any Gain you changed, set, establish, will be effected at the line send outs. There really is no way to send pre-gain.
However, it’s best if you leave the gain set from the start, and if you are doing the set up I am doing now(DN->FOH) what I discovered is since you send the Tap/In to FOH, you can add Make-Up gain back in from the Compressors on the channels, you basically add more gain without affecting the FOH!
On the show where I first used this, there was an issue where all the band mates had all the channels turned up; since I lowered the gain by -5dB so the FOH can control, it was a pressing issue, but I figured to set there bus channels Pre-fader, and add the Make-Up gain on the compressors, then we did not need to push the faders up, and in my case, I liked the way certain instruments sounded adding Make-Up gain after the EQ!
Hope that helps!
So you are running tails to the front of house's stage box? What if they don't have a stage box?
As stated on the tech rider that I have a 10’ snake, and if they do not have one I have a personal 100’ foot 16channel snake needed, that why I let them know in a week of advance so if they have any questions. 90% of sound companies have stage boxes, and even snakes on stage.