Great stuff as always! I recently came from the electronic music world to start mixing bands, just before that I was watching a breakdown of some Skrillex mixes. It was showing similar pre master bus channels, limiters on a lot of elements. It was a cool eye opener to how they get such loud mixes. So then after I'm learning about heavy band styles (coming across this channel of course!) And I started to realise that most of the things you see in big EDM mixes are techniques coming directly from hard rock/metal. This made me think of mixing in a new way based on how dense the music wants/needs to be. Metal and EDM have a lot in common in their denseness. I can recommend doing technique hunting, such as watching young EDM kids break the rules or mix and mash them to find creative new ways, collecting info from as many genres as you can. This channel has been great, no fluff, no time wasting. (FYI, I would gladly suffer some adverts if you ever wanted to make extra money on this content) I can leave a tip or two that may be useful in return! On my master I sometimes; Add thickness to the mix by boosting a little 400hz-ish in only the side channels (based on a preset of an M/S goodhertz plugin). This can work really nicely to hug/warm up the mix. A cool feature of "top down" mixing style is having eq and comp on the master bus from the get go. So I have an eq with a high and low shelf boosted by a few dB at their maximum frequencies. So for example the eq I normally use has a shelf at 20hz and 21khz, slate have the elosis eqs which have 5hz and 30khz, they're a bit less clean but do the job. It helps the individual channels have that nice thicc smiley face eq without actually putting eq on them, means less processing overall. And last thing I can think of is the attack and release settings on the multiband comp. Giving a slow attack and fast release can really help get you that super-finished-god-damn-those-low-mids-are-finally-under-control sound! Lmao Cheers!
Awesome video! I have to just mention that clipping vs limiting the drums will have different effect. While limiting will reduce the volume of the highest peak, limiting will trim it like distortion and therefore the volume will stay, and so is the punch. This is why its more recommended for drums than limiting
Awesome! I am going to try it as soon as possible! This is the best channel about (metal) music production, simple to understand, no hidden information at all! Keep doing it! Cheers from Brazil!
Great informative video! I’m just a home recoding guy doing my own songs, and have been struggling with getting my mixes sounding natural. Your videos have really helped me boost my levels while getting a more punchy and beefy mix. Thank you! And I love that you don’t add fluff to your videos! Getting distracted and going on tangents. A+ information!
why do people always say that we shouldn't use limiters on our mix buss? I used it to raise my volume to -6db so that my headroom is in the right place what's wrong with that?
Your videos are so helpful. It’s so easy to get lost in a fog of options when recording and mixing, your videos help ground me and remind me of fundamentals that sometimes slip my mind when I’ve been dwelling too much on other aspects of the process!
Thank you as always for the great tips! I consistently struggle with the opposite problem, my mixes usually and up somewhere between -9 and -8 LUFS with no limiting on my master bus. I’ve switched strategies to pulling all my faders to zero and pushing them up rather than pushing them all up and pulling them down to get my fader mix. I’d love to see how you start your mixes and how you gain stage.
@@sionnachs_workshop Hey Sionnach, sorry for the late reply, I made a small comparison video hopefuly it can help you ruclips.net/video/pzEsNVLoxjM/видео.html
Very good tips, the limiter/clipper on the Drum bus can be seen as a way to balance the drums volume even more. I still preffer to HP the kick on it's own track/bus, so the compressor on that track doesn't need to work too hard.
Great video Bobby! Putting the limiter on my drum bus is something I didn't think of and can't wait to try. Awesome stuff man. You use the teaching rule of "Tell em" so well. You tell em what you're gonna tell em. You tell em. Than you tell em what you told em. A true educator!
Tried using the stock L1 style limiter In Samplitude on the drum bus.. interesting on the quieter part's I'm singing on, the damn snare it's poking out your eye. Few DB added headroom also. Great tips! Thanks brotha 🙏
The drum bus clipping helped out a ton man... And how you keep it around - 16db. I've been having issues with the headroom running out... Thanks bud 👍🏻
Your videos are incredibly helpful. Thank you for all your hard work. PS-I love the IR you gave out. It has a nice, beefy sound and I've been using it on a few jam tracks. Cheers!
Great information! Thank you. Going to apply this to my current mix. Always looking for ways to improve and your videos are a huge help. Thanks for helping us all!
Thank you for another great video. What are your thoughts on putting a limiter on each drum? Also, would you recommend compression on the drum bus for black metal?
I prefer to keep it simple and only limit/clip/tape saturate my drum bus. I'm very conscious of not overdoing it, so doing it at one stage works best for me. As far as compression on the drum bus, I'm a fan of parallel compression so the original dynamics remain intact. I use parallel compression on almost all of my mixes since it helps glue my drums together. If I'm going for an ultra-raw sound, maybe I won't add it (like in black metal).
@@FrightboxRecording thanks! other question, but i think it would be placed on other video.... i see that you master with a 0.1 ceiling; i think you're mastering for CD, but what is ideal ceiling for streaming (and total lufs or RMS) i always read that 1.0db of ceiling is ideal but i think there are multiple songs on spotify that are way too louder...
@@fer_old_school There seems to be a lot of controversy over that these days. Streaming services automatically level match songs, so I go with a -.1 celling to be safe.
Great question, it all depends on the incoming signal. If the incoming signal is low, the ceiling in the limiter has to be set low enough to achieve the amount of gain reduction I'm after.
Yes, but those peaks are very few and far between throughout the duration of the track. Also, they usually only happen on fills when there's floor tom action happening at the same time. On average it's around 3-4dB of GR. If I was achieving 6dB of gain reduction consistently, i'd definitely back it off.
@@FrightboxRecording Do you ever use the 96dbs slope that they have in the Fab Filter-EQ? Could you use it at maybe, say, 20 to 30 Hz, and then use a gentler slope higher up at like 40 Hz. Would that be crazy to use on the master bus?
In my opinion there is no one ideal loudness. I just make sure my mix has a similar perceivable loudness to my reference mixes. I don't pay much attention to the numbers...especially now that the streaming services all mess with volume anyway.
I used to pay attention to the exact RMS and now I do it strictly by ear. I've found that as long as I follow the same exact system, my resulting loudness is extremely consistent from production to production. Also, I can see that it's sitting right just by looking at the level in my master fader. I also have a few reference mixes that I always compare my masters to as well.
@@FrightboxRecording That is a fair answer. I was just wondering what you think a good RMS or LUFS is due to all the streaming services turning mixes down now. Personally I try to aim for around -10 RMS, and I find that a lot of the techniques you taught in your video help me to achieve this fairly consistently (I do prefer using saturation over limiter clipping though). I should reference more... Thanks for the cool video man.
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►► Download your FREE 5 Step Guide To Better Heavy Mixes: frightboxrecordingacademy.com/5-step-guide/
So.how.do u know its loud enough
4 years later this is STILL the way i do things thanks to this. Always delivering the goods. Rock on brother! \m/
Great stuff as always!
I recently came from the electronic music world to start mixing bands, just before that I was watching a breakdown of some Skrillex mixes. It was showing similar pre master bus channels, limiters on a lot of elements. It was a cool eye opener to how they get such loud mixes. So then after I'm learning about heavy band styles (coming across this channel of course!) And I started to realise that most of the things you see in big EDM mixes are techniques coming directly from hard rock/metal. This made me think of mixing in a new way based on how dense the music wants/needs to be. Metal and EDM have a lot in common in their denseness. I can recommend doing technique hunting, such as watching young EDM kids break the rules or mix and mash them to find creative new ways, collecting info from as many genres as you can.
This channel has been great, no fluff, no time wasting. (FYI, I would gladly suffer some adverts if you ever wanted to make extra money on this content)
I can leave a tip or two that may be useful in return! On my master I sometimes;
Add thickness to the mix by boosting a little 400hz-ish in only the side channels (based on a preset of an M/S goodhertz plugin). This can work really nicely to hug/warm up the mix.
A cool feature of "top down" mixing style is having eq and comp on the master bus from the get go. So I have an eq with a high and low shelf boosted by a few dB at their maximum frequencies. So for example the eq I normally use has a shelf at 20hz and 21khz, slate have the elosis eqs which have 5hz and 30khz, they're a bit less clean but do the job. It helps the individual channels have that nice thicc smiley face eq without actually putting eq on them, means less processing overall.
And last thing I can think of is the attack and release settings on the multiband comp. Giving a slow attack and fast release can really help get you that super-finished-god-damn-those-low-mids-are-finally-under-control sound! Lmao
Cheers!
Awesome video! I have to just mention that clipping vs limiting the drums will have different effect. While limiting will reduce the volume of the highest peak, limiting will trim it like distortion and therefore the volume will stay, and so is the punch. This is why its more recommended for drums than limiting
2 video's in 1 week?!?! we are one lucky 4.29K subscribers!
😂 Got tons of stuff in the works!
Awesome!
I am going to try it as soon as possible!
This is the best channel about (metal) music production, simple to understand, no hidden information at all!
Keep doing it!
Cheers from Brazil!
Glad you're digging the vids dude!
This guy is my mixing hero.
Great informative video! I’m just a home recoding guy doing my own songs, and have been struggling with getting my mixes sounding natural. Your videos have really helped me boost my levels while getting a more punchy and beefy mix. Thank you! And I love that you don’t add fluff to your videos! Getting distracted and going on tangents. A+ information!
So glad to hear that, Christopher. Hearing this motivates me to keep going!
why do people always say that we shouldn't use limiters on our mix buss? I used it to raise my volume to -6db so that my headroom is in the right place what's wrong with that?
Your videos are so helpful. It’s so easy to get lost in a fog of options when recording and mixing, your videos help ground me and remind me of fundamentals that sometimes slip my mind when I’ve been dwelling too much on other aspects of the process!
Killer information that shows how small changes through the chain result in *big* changes. Awesome work Leroy!
Herrr yeah!
Wow, thank you, Bobby!
Thank you as always for the great tips! I consistently struggle with the opposite problem, my mixes usually and up somewhere between -9 and -8 LUFS with no limiting on my master bus. I’ve switched strategies to pulling all my faders to zero and pushing them up rather than pushing them all up and pulling them down to get my fader mix. I’d love to see how you start your mixes and how you gain stage.
Stay tuned!
I was planning on finishing a track later tonight and will have to implement these tips. Thanks as always for the great video!
Anytime man!
It's about f---ing time I found a video like this. This is the info I needed
Was watching your last video on mastering yesterday, thanks for the bonus tips
Anytime!
Bro I learn more from your videos than I did in college cuz of how much more complicated metal is than pop. Thanks so much for all your videos!
My pleasure, Ethan!
Vintage Warmer is awesome, I tried Kramer Master Tape and Slate Virtual tape Machines, but the sound of Vintage Warmer is just soooo great !
Couldn't agree more. I've tried dozens of tape saturators and always go back to Vintage Warmer on my master fader.
Nice must try that one. Do ye think it holds up to uhe's satin?
@@sionnachs_workshop Hey Sionnach, sorry for the late reply, I made a small comparison video hopefuly it can help you ruclips.net/video/pzEsNVLoxjM/видео.html
Very good tips, the limiter/clipper on the Drum bus can be seen as a way to balance the drums volume even more. I still preffer to HP the kick on it's own track/bus, so the compressor on that track doesn't need to work too hard.
Been coming back to your videos. Always great reminders and information my brother!
This really helped me bigtime…thanks bud
Great video Bobby! Putting the limiter on my drum bus is something I didn't think of and can't wait to try. Awesome stuff man. You use the teaching rule of "Tell em" so well. You tell em what you're gonna tell em. You tell em. Than you tell em what you told em. A true educator!
Hell yeah dude, let me know how it works out!
Tried using the stock L1 style limiter In Samplitude on the drum bus.. interesting on the quieter part's I'm singing on, the damn snare it's poking out your eye. Few DB added headroom also.
Great tips!
Thanks brotha 🙏
The drum bus clipping helped out a ton man... And how you keep it around - 16db. I've been having issues with the headroom running out... Thanks bud 👍🏻
Your videos are incredibly helpful. Thank you for all your hard work. PS-I love the IR you gave out. It has a nice, beefy sound and I've been using it on a few jam tracks. Cheers!
Hell yeah dude, glad you dig it!
i knew that stuff in the back of my head ... now i understand it better, great job!
Happy to hear that!
Wow. I needed this. Thx frightbox!
My pleasure, Jeffrey!
It helped me a lot. Thanks!
Great information! Thank you. Going to apply this to my current mix. Always looking for ways to improve and your videos are a huge help. Thanks for helping us all!
My pleasure, Heath!
@@FrightboxRecording I did apply this to my current mix and the results were stellar. Doing this for all my mixing now. Thanks again.
Thank you for another great video. What are your thoughts on putting a limiter on each drum? Also, would you recommend compression on the drum bus for black metal?
I prefer to keep it simple and only limit/clip/tape saturate my drum bus. I'm very conscious of not overdoing it, so doing it at one stage works best for me. As far as compression on the drum bus, I'm a fan of parallel compression so the original dynamics remain intact. I use parallel compression on almost all of my mixes since it helps glue my drums together. If I'm going for an ultra-raw sound, maybe I won't add it (like in black metal).
Great but once i cut all unnecessary low ends, at mastering level, the mix sounds thin!
You are the man.
Awesome stuff man.
Brilliant!
great video man, only just got into using limiters will try these things out thanks man
Dont you use stereo imager at mastering bus?
You are the best Bobby!!!
Thanks for watching, Felp!
Drums sound sick. How’d you get those sounds ?
Thanks man! I just tuned my kit and recorded with solid mic placement in my project studio. Also, the drummer is sick.
Really awesome tips Bobby! Thank you so much! Learning much from you bro 😀👊
So happy to hear that man!
Excellent!!!
hi nice tips as always, but.... why do you limite all bus drum and not only snare???
Great question Fernando! Because it's good to catch the peaks on the toms as well. They can really eat up a lot of headroom as well if not careful.
@@FrightboxRecording thanks! other question, but i think it would be placed on other video.... i see that you master with a 0.1 ceiling; i think you're mastering for CD, but what is ideal ceiling for streaming (and total lufs or RMS) i always read that 1.0db of ceiling is ideal but i think there are multiple songs on spotify that are way too louder...
@@fer_old_school There seems to be a lot of controversy over that these days. Streaming services automatically level match songs, so I go with a -.1 celling to be safe.
Guh this video is excellent, thank you!
Glad to have been a help man!
good tips
Fantastic information. Thank you for sharing. You have a new subscriber.
Glad you found it helpful, Aaron!
Great tips! I noticed on the Drum Bus L1 you set your ceiling really low. I saw you do it on the Bass in a previous video. Why do you do this?
Great question, it all depends on the incoming signal. If the incoming signal is low, the ceiling in the limiter has to be set low enough to achieve the amount of gain reduction I'm after.
Can you make a video on common or average track Headroom levels while mixing and before mastering?
Something's in the works..stay tuned!
3 or 4 db of gain Reduction on Drum Bus? But L1 clearly shows -6,4 db on snare hits on 04:18
Yes, but those peaks are very few and far between throughout the duration of the track. Also, they usually only happen on fills when there's floor tom action happening at the same time. On average it's around 3-4dB of GR. If I was achieving 6dB of gain reduction consistently, i'd definitely back it off.
I don’t get how you don’t have more subs
Very usefull!!!
Happy to have been a help!
Hey my friend great video as always! Is there any real differences between 12dbs and 24dbs slope filters?
Yes, the latter is more extreme and will eliminate more of the low-end below the cutoff point. I tend to gravitate towards steeper filters.
@@FrightboxRecording
Do you ever use the 96dbs slope that they have in the Fab Filter-EQ?
Could you use it at maybe, say, 20 to 30 Hz, and then use a gentler slope higher up at like 40 Hz. Would that be crazy to use on the master bus?
Will a maximizer on the drum bus have the same effect like a limiter ?
Yes, as long as it has a hard ceiling.
Your channel rules. \m/
Glad you dig it, Tim!
As I watch this, I wonder if you're headroom on your master is obliterated before you even send this to a separate mastering file.
What's the ideal loudness level
In my opinion there is no one ideal loudness. I just make sure my mix has a similar perceivable loudness to my reference mixes. I don't pay much attention to the numbers...especially now that the streaming services all mess with volume anyway.
Elegant strategies, pilgrim.
Thanks Oren!
But what RMS or LUFS are you mastering to?
I used to pay attention to the exact RMS and now I do it strictly by ear. I've found that as long as I follow the same exact system, my resulting loudness is extremely consistent from production to production. Also, I can see that it's sitting right just by looking at the level in my master fader. I also have a few reference mixes that I always compare my masters to as well.
@@FrightboxRecording That is a fair answer. I was just wondering what you think a good RMS or LUFS is due to all the streaming services turning mixes down now. Personally I try to aim for around -10 RMS, and I find that a lot of the techniques you taught in your video help me to achieve this fairly consistently (I do prefer using saturation over limiter clipping though). I should reference more... Thanks for the cool video man.